I want to post a warning about the use of weight loss drugs like Wegovy and Ozempic. I fear we will see a spate of seemingly healthy young people dropping dead unexpectedly due to the dodgy prescriptions and black market in these weight loss drugs.
These diabetes drugs make you lose weight as a side effect, what they call an off label use.
I've read recently it's become fashionable for young girls in particular to "Shred" by injecting these drugs even though they are already thin or at a healthy weight. All of a sudden you are seeing young females with six-packs without seemingly needing to do anything to obtain them, some will perish because of this behaviour!
I was on this type of drug for an extended period after having heart surgery, they wanted me to lose weight and it did, but it was under strict supervision from an endocrinologist and a cardiologist. I'd have a suite of 34 bloods tests every 3 months.
The drugs do assist in weight loss, but they can potentially have severe side-effects, organ damage (kidney, liver, intestines(bowel)), heart issues, stroke, there is even a concern in healthy people they might trigger the very blood sugar issues they are designed to prevent in diabetes patients (So called paradoxical effect).
If you know of anyone using these drugs who are not diabetic, and as such using them to lose weight, please warn them.
There are tells those drugs are being used, the first and most obvious is what they call Ozempic Face or Wegovy Face, it sticks out like dog's balls.
Relatives who haven't seen you for a while will think you are gravely ill. This is because the drugs cause you to lose body fat everywhere not just naturally from normal fat stores, you become gaunt. Your neck, cheeks, jowls, hands, feet all lose some of the natural fat layers that usually aren't lost via healthy weight lose methods, you also lose fat layers inside you mouth, throat tongue, ears, (another side effect is that the drugs can reduce / stop sleep apnoea due to the way they cause lose of fat layers in your throat and mouth).
There are several celebrities around OZ at the moment that you'll identify this appearance in, they recently seem to have achieve extraordinary weight loss after struggling for many years with weight management. They are probably wealthy enough to have it correctly monitored with regular blood tests and check ups, but even then they are still at risk.
Another interesting observable effect is that people using the drugs no longer seem to be as sensitive to heat, in fact you feel cold even when it's warm. And you do not seem to perspire as much or like those around you in warm environments. At first this seems to be a good thing, no BO, but in fact it can lead to severe conditions because you aren't really cool, you can be overheating and not know it, so the doctors monitor you for fluid retention and the like.
Thanks LP. The other issue around Ozempic is that there is no supply in Aus at the moment so diabetics can't get it. Too many people are using it just for weight loss. This has been an issue for a while now.
Thanks LP. The other issue around Ozempic is that there is no supply in Aus at the moment so diabetics can't get it. Too many people are using it just for weight loss. This has been an issue for a while now.
I've just run out and have been told no more supplies until probably next year. It was prescribed for high blood glucose.
I find it quite ironic, that many young influencers who were anti-vaxxers, willing put themselves on unsupervised medication to lose weight on top of already running the risk of exposing themselves to COVID to preserve their freedom of choice. They rallied against vaccines as a harm!
Reading about the demise of these otherwise healthy young people is becoming a daily occurrence.
What freedom do they have from inside a pine box?
You make very good points, Spotted One, re anti-vaxxers.
I would have thought that eliminating processed foods, excessive alcohol & carbs, sugars and being too sedentary would have been better choices for diabetes and being overweight? And I did put my mouth where my keyboard is around 15 years ago when my blood sugar level hit 6... pre-diabetes. Did the above, peeled off 18kgs and blood sugar went to just over 5...
You make very good points, Spotted One, re anti-vaxxers.
I would have thought that eliminating processed foods, excessive alcohol & carbs, sugars and being too sedentary would have been better choices for diabetes and being overweight? And I did put my mouth where my keyboard is around 15 years ago when my blood sugar level hit 6... pre-diabetes. Did the above, peeled off 18kgs and blood sugar went to just over 5...
Yes, if you are in that category you can do as you have described, but it takes some effort and for a variety of reasons not all people are capable of it which is why medicines exist.
But most of the cases I refer to are young lean individuals trying to live up to impossible standards, they have to look like flawless physical perfection, but they are trying to take shortcuts to do so using the very same meds as an enabler.
A lot of their influencer associates are now pointing the finger at the COVID vaccines, especially with young girls perishing from blood clots and strokes. But when you go back through this you find many of them rallied against the vaccines, so if it is actually the vaccines as some have claimed they must be hypocrites. So what is it, perhaps COVID as the causes are a known side-effect of a COVID infection, but the cases are rising?
I doubt the vaccine makers have much to worry about, the precedence seems to be young anti-vaxxers who have suddenly developed shredded - six pack abdomens from some "no effort miracle diet, ingredient or lifestyle change". A solution that "big pharma has kept secret to protect profit margins" that the influencer will "willingly share to everyone for the benefit of the world" at the cost of a very small affordable subscription!
No I suspect this is really the effects of a chemically enhanced disease, much like the past trends for bulimia or anorexia, I can see it in social media and in the celebrity press. I don't want the few who luckily escape severe consequences spreading their toxic lucky dip message to everyone's children. The fake nature of the resulting tragedy has to be exposed.
There is much reality in what you write, Spotted One, though some may think you've got your tin foil hat on!
Big Pharma/Medicine/Science has done so much that is positive and protects/saves many, many lives. However, copious amounts of loot does loosen the ethics and morality of some - enough to cost lives.
We should remember that all medication comes with warnings because no matter the efficacy, appropriateness and safety they're well aware of the <5% who will encounter adverse effects. And if their drug, as you point out, has apparent off-label benefits... they will be used/exploited by horrendously over-worked GPs simply wanting to help their patients.
Then there is, as you point out, social pressure; social media pressure; peer pressure. Every woman is expected to be wafer thin and look like a super-model. And young blokes... you'd better get that six-pack. Absurd expectations. I've said it before and I'll say it again, our medical model is absolute bullshizen (but better than fckall, our all too often measuring stick), designed and exploited by profiteers and opportunists. And when I say 'medical model' I include physical health, mental health and spiritual health.Then there are work expectations and competitiveness, let's hoe into the caffeine, alcohol, nicotine and cocaine (if you can afford it).
Put all these ingredients together, and voila.
(A real life case in point of peer group pressure & anti-vaxxers which came to light, tragic light, in my own life recently. My skinny bliss's best friend of more than 40 years, we'll call her Gilly, because that's her name! Gilly's (Gillian) an anti-vaxxer and conspiracy theorist to the back teeth (much to my skinny bliss's loud protestations). Around 3 years ago, Gilly (who I had a crush on back in the late 70s) developed a sore throat that wouldn't go away... well, you know where this is going. She did go to the doc who on a visual diagnosis/inspection saw a suspicious, small growth on one of her tonsils and recommended further tests. Did Gilly take his advice? Nuh. Her friends/peers (also anti-vaxxers) had these special magnets, magical herbs and a healing group that would cure her. However, the cancer continued to grow to the point where she could barely eat. Severe weight loss followed. My skinny bliss went to visit her around six months ago and stayed with her for a week, attempting to get her to a hospital... to no avail. 2 weeks ago Gilly deteriorated to the extent where she had to be admitted to hospital - my skinny bliss drove from the Mornington Peninsula to the Blue Mountains to be with Gilly, only to find her lunatic friends trying to get her out of hospital and to their healing group as, they claimed, the hospital would only fill her with poisonous chemicals that could kill her! Let's just say my skinny bliss didn't hold back on them. Gilly is expected to pass before the end of the month and is in palliative care. She's in her mid 60s).
There is much reality in what you write, Spotted One, though some may think you've got your tin foil hat on!
Big Pharma/Medicine/Science has done so much that is positive and protects/saves many, many lives. However, copious amounts of loot does loosen the ethics and morality of some - enough to cost lives.
We should remember that all medication comes with warnings because no matter the efficacy, appropriateness and safety they're well aware of the <5% who will encounter adverse effects. And if their drug, as you point out, has apparent off-label benefits... they will be used/exploited by horrendously over-worked GPs simply wanting to help their patients.
Then there is, as you point out, social pressure; social media pressure; peer pressure. Every woman is expected to be wafer thin and look like a super-model. And young blokes... you'd better get that six-pack. Absurd expectations. I've said it before and I'll say it again, our medical model is absolute bullshizen (but better than fckall, our all too often measuring stick), designed and exploited by profiteers and opportunists. And when I say 'medical model' I include physical health, mental health and spiritual health.Then there are work expectations and competitiveness, let's hoe into the caffeine, alcohol, nicotine and cocaine (if you can afford it).
Put all these ingredients together, and voila.
(A real life case in point of peer group pressure & anti-vaxxers which came to light, tragic light, in my own life recently. My skinny bliss's best friend of more than 40 years, we'll call her Gilly, because that's her name! Gilly's (Gillian) an anti-vaxxer and conspiracy theorist to the back teeth (much to my skinny bliss's loud protestations). Around 3 years ago, Gilly (who I had a crush on back in the late 70s) developed a sore throat that wouldn't go away... well, you know where this is going. She did go to the doc who on a visual diagnosis/inspection saw a suspicious, small growth on one of her tonsils and recommended further tests. Did Gilly take his advice? Nuh. Her friends/peers (also anti-vaxxers) had these special magnets, magical herbs and a healing group that would cure her. However, the cancer continued to grow to the point where she could barely eat. Severe weight loss followed. My skinny bliss went to visit her around six months ago and stayed with her for a week, attempting to get her to a hospital... to no avail. 2 weeks ago Gilly deteriorated to the extent where she had to be admitted to hospital - my skinny bliss drove from the Mornington Peninsula to the Blue Mountains to be with Gilly, only to find her lunatic friends trying to get her out of hospital and to their healing group as, they claimed, the hospital would only fill her with poisonous chemicals that could kill her! Let's just say my skinny bliss didn't hold back on them. Gilly is expected to pass before the end of the month and is in palliative care. She's in her mid 60s).
Terrible story, may she be her end be painless and with a sense of peace.
This is where I say to people, do everything in your power to get well following the health professionals advise.
You want to stand on one leg and meditate in between doctors apointments and indulge in all the natural remedies, do so, because they wont hurt you to do all the natural and holistic medicinal stuff, but do it alongside certifed health practitioners advise. You only get one shot at life, and following the instructions of those who have pushed our life expectancies out is likely better even if you want to go the natural remedy route too.
I dont get why its one or the other.
Terrible story, may she be her end be painless and with a sense of peace.
This is where I say to people, do everything in your power to get well following the health professionals advise.
You want to stand on one leg and meditate in between doctors apointments and indulge in all the natural remedies, do so, because they wont hurt you to do all the natural and holistic medicinal stuff, but do it alongside certifed health practitioners advise. You only get one shot at life, and following the instructions of those who have pushed our life expectancies out is likely better even if you want to go the natural remedy route too.
I dont get why its one or the other.
Same page. It aint about either/or... both (everything) is the best bet.
Ozempic is primarily a treatment for diabetics. It is being prescribed for its weight loss and that has created a demand that exceeds supply from time to time.
Ozempic does not magically remove body fat. It suppresses the user’s appetite.
How do I know? It is prescribed for a diabetic family member and I’ve read the documentation and observed the results of its use.
Ozempic is primarily a treatment for diabetics. It is being prescribed for its weight loss and that has created a demand that exceeds supply from time to time.
Ozempic does not magically remove body fat. It suppresses the user’s appetite.
How do I know? It is prescribed for a diabetic family member and I’ve read the documentation and observed the results of its use.
I have used it as a prescribed treatment for diabetes and indeed it does suppress appetite to the point of inducing some nausea, at least in my case. Currently further supplies are not available until next year and having stopped using it my relish for food has returned. I'm not keen to use it again and hopefully will find a suitable alternative.
I have used it as a prescribed treatment for diabetes and indeed it does suppress appetite to the point of inducing some nausea, at least in my case. Currently further supplies are not available until next year and having stopped using it my relish for food has returned. I'm not keen to use it again and hopefully will find a suitable alternative.
My family member is still able to access it - I think the pharmacy could be holding stocks for genuine diabetics.
It’s not suitable for all folk, as my family member’s doctor advised before prescribing it.
I hope you find something else that will help you manage your diabetes Cookie 🙏
Ozempic is primarily a treatment for diabetics. It is being prescribed for its weight loss and that has created a demand that exceeds supply from time to time.
Ozempic does not magically remove body fat. It suppresses the user’s appetite.
How do I know? It is prescribed for a diabetic family member and I’ve read the documentation and observed the results of its use.
Curious, does it suppress the users 'cravings' for appetite?
There are other drugs around that reduce all manner of cravings.....be that drugs, sex, alcohol, food or whatever other vice you might have.
Curious, does it suppress the users 'cravings' for appetite?
There are other drugs around that reduce all manner of cravings.....be that drugs, sex, alcohol, food or whatever other vice you might have.
[/quoteCurious, does it suppress the users 'cravings' for appetite?
There are other drugs around that reduce all manner of cravings.....be that drugs, sex, alcohol, food or whatever other vice you might have.
In my case at least, all other vices remained safely preserved.
Curious, does it suppress the users 'cravings' for appetite?
There are other drugs around that reduce all manner of cravings.....be that drugs, sex, alcohol, food or whatever other vice you might have.
One of the compounds in Ozempic affects the hunger centres in the brain and that reduces hunger, appetite and cravings. It also slows the rate that the stomach empties. That prolongs the feeling of fullness after meals.
People using Ozempic generally experience very modest weight loss as they eat slightly less than normal.
A young fellow I know recently had the gastric banding procedure. He has dropped almost 50kg from way north of 200kg in a couple of months. His energy levels are good and he has the all clear to exercise fully. For him, that’s walking, speedball, skipping, etc.
Ozempic would have done nothing for him.
One of the compounds in Ozempic affects the hunger centres in the brain and that reduces hunger, appetite and cravings. It also slows the rate that the stomach empties. That prolongs the feeling of fullness after meals.
People using Ozempic generally experience very modest weight loss as they eat slightly less than normal.
A young fellow I know recently had the gastric banding procedure. He has dropped almost 50kg from way north of 200kg in a couple of months. His energy levels are good and he has the all clear to exercise fully. For him, that’s walking, speedball, skipping, etc.
Ozempic would have done nothing for him.
I've got a couple of friends who have had the gastric banding and the weight has just fallen off them. They physically cannot each as much which has worked wonders. No obvious side effects, but one friend seems to have had some dizzy spells where they never used to previously. Could be connected, may not be.
From what you've said, as well as Cookie, it appears this is different to what i've heard of previously.....which is a good thing.
I've got a couple of friends who have had the gastric banding and the weight has just fallen off them. They physically cannot each as much which has worked wonders. No obvious side effects, but one friend seems to have had some dizzy spells where they never used to previously. Could be connected, may not be.
From what you've said, as well as Cookie, it appears this is different to what i've heard of previously.....which is a good thing.
Yes. I also experienced some moderate weight loss, about 5kg over approx 6 weeks. I'll probably put that back now!
No obvious side effects, but one friend seems to have had some dizzy spells where they never used to previously. Could be connected, may not be.
It may be a low blood pressure issue having lost weight.
The exact same thing happened to a friend of mine, lost 60kg down from 150kg to 90kg then developed fainting spells. Of course at 150kg he had high blood pressure and was put on beta blockers, which they didn't adjust after he got down to 90kg. It wasn't until he started monitoring his BP at home daily they worked out it was unstable, they adjusted his meds and now he's all good.
The thing is those kids taking Ozempic do not realise that you apparently are time limited on how long you can stay on the high weight loss dose. So if you do not make adjustments to lifestyle or diet while you getting the benefit chances are the effort will be undone when you come off. Also there is a lower long term "housekeeping" dose but it costs as much as the weight loss dose even though it's only about 20% of the full dose. If you do not have diabetes you'll pay $300 - $400 a month forever, high or low dose, so changing lifestyle and diet should be a big feature of a course!
Ozempic and Wegovy slam your metabolism, if you are previously monitored your HR and BP those it works for will find both up about 15%, which ironically delivers about a 15% weight loss. There is some irony taking this if you are a cardiac patient, because you are probably already on a medication to slow your heart rate and reduce BP. So it should be done under extreme medical supervision.
Because the drugs weight loss is 15% from everywhere there are high risks for people who are just a little overweight or already slim and use it to shred, the healthy fat stores around livers, kidneys and heart might already be low even for some obese people. Lose too much of that healthy fat layer and it can be terminal, your organs are basically starving even though you appear healthy!
It may be a low blood pressure issue having lost weight.
The exact same thing happened to a friend of mine, lost 60kg down from 150kg to 90kg then developed fainting spells. Of course at 150kg he had high blood pressure and was put on beta blockers, which they didn't adjust after he got down to 90kg. It wasn't until he started monitoring his BP at home daily they worked out it was unstable, they adjusted his meds and now he's all good.
The thing is those kids taking Ozempic do not realise that you apparently are time limited on how long you can stay on the high weight loss dose. So if you do not make adjustments to lifestyle or diet while you getting the benefit chances are the effort will be undone when you come off. Also there is a lower long term "housekeeping" dose but it costs as much as the weight loss dose even though it's only about 20% of the full dose. If you do not have diabetes you'll pay $300 - $400 a month forever, high or low dose, so changing lifestyle and diet should be a big feature of a course!
Ozempic and Wegovy slam your metabolism, if you are previously monitored your HR and BP those it works for will find both up about 15%, which ironically delivers about a 15% weight loss. There is some irony taking this if you are a cardiac patient, because you are probably already on a medication to slow your heart rate and reduce BP. So it should be done under extreme medical supervision.
Because the drugs weight loss is 15% from everywhere there are high risks for people who are just a little overweight or already slim and use it to shred, the healthy fat stores around livers, kidneys and heart might already be low even for some obese people. Lose too much of that healthy fat layer and it can be terminal, your organs are basically starving even though you appear healthy!
There isn't an Ozempic "high weight loss dose". It starts with a weekly 0.25mg dose that, subject to your doctor's approval, increases to 0.5mg in week 5. Higher doses - up to 2mg - can be administered or your doctor can reduce the dosage depending the patient's blood sugar levels, vital signs and/or side effects. Ozempic can improve blood sugar levels in Type 2 diabetics provided its use is accompanied by an approriate diet and exercise regime. One of the side effects of Ozempic can be mild weight loss. Its use does not result in dramatic weight loss.
Wegovy is the weight loss drug made by the same company. It contains the same active ingredient but in a much higher dosage. Apart from that, I don't know anything about Wegovy.
When a functional dose can vary from 0.25mg to 2.0mg, an 8x factor, I'd call 2mg high no matter how small the real world amount.
Wegovy, Ozempic, Saxenda and one other drug are a family of medicines that can be effective in suppressing appetite. They are generally administered via autopen type injectors.
There are varying regimes, some are daily injections others weekly.
Unlike diabetics that can get a health benefit side-effect of reduced heart disease, misuse of these drugs in healthy individuals can have a paradoxical effect and cause heart disease or other serious side effects.
For non-diabetic weight loss most regimes start with gradually increasing dosages, starting at the lowest to evaluate tolerance, then stepping up to the highest levels which are the only does associated with weight loss. It takes about 14 weeks to get to the high dose safely, and if you are non-diabetic you'll only be allowed to stay on that high for a maximum of two years because of the risks. This seems like a long time, it seems like plenty of time, but some of these drugs will have no effect on weight for the first six to eight months.
The media is using Ozempic like a generic term, but the issues being discussed are really Wegovy, Ozempic, Saxenda and one other drug.
Most come in a range of dispensers / autopens with varying needle gauges from 32 down to 36.
Ozempic
Ozempic for example historically came in only two sizes, 2mg(4x0.5mg) and 8mg(4x2.0mg), but they have now introduced a 4mg(4x1.0mg). For many diabetic regimes the long term dose might be between 0.25mg and 1.0mg, with 0.5mg being the most common, the pen dose being adjustable up to the stated maximum. For diabetes doctors will only move patients to the highest pen if needed, for weight loss the highest is the only functional dose level and as such a requirement.
If you are non-diabetic at the high 2mg dose you will be subject to a strict regime of monitoring, as the long term risks to internal organs and cardiovascular system is significant. If you are diabetic your already under heavy monitoring, and you already carry significantly increased risk which is why you get a net benefit regardless.
Some will think just buy the 8mg pen and use low doses, but you shouldn't have a 8mg pen for low doses for two reasons, the device is not as accurate at very low doses, and the product efficacy drops off rapidly beyond about 8 weeks keeping in mind it could already be weeks old when you get it. In any case, for weight loss the low dose does nothing, so you get increased risk and no benefit.
Some Norbit somewhere will claim well I'm not diabetic so the diminished efficacy makes no difference, but you risk being on a dose rollercoaster and that can have disastrous effects. It would be like having shots of water and someone slowly blends in vodka instead, or the reverse!
The limited shelf life is the primary issue with supply, the problem isn't that they can't make enough of the stuff, the problem is they can't store it for long enough to avoid waste.
I have been monitored for fatty liver disease since a portal vein clot was discovered during a kidney stone episode 3 years ago. I see a liver specialist and a haematologist every 6 months and have US's to check on the clot.
As part of the liver monitoring, I was offered to go on a clinical trial of a "diabetes" drug at the hospita to see if it could help my liver disease however after reading the documentation, I declined because it was far too onerous for me and there was no guarantee I'd get the drug or a placebo. Speaking to my GP, he suggested I go on Ozempic in an effort to see if it could help the fatty liver disease, after some lengthy consideration (I had difficulty coming to terms with using a drug diabetics needed maybe more than me), I agreed to try it. I started on the lowest dose and it actually made me hungrier! As the dose was increased, I started to feel unwell to the point where I experienced the most severe diarrhoea and nausea I haver ever experienced which lasted for 2.5 weeks. I ditched the Ozempic as soon as I started with the side effect symptoms as I suspected it was the problem as opposed to a Gastro bug. My GP agreed I should cease its use immediately and eventually, things returned to normal.
Some people might go ok with it, I was sick as dog and regret ever trying it.
I have been monitored for fatty liver disease since a portal vein clot was discovered during a kidney stone episode 3 years ago. I see a liver specialist and a haematologist every 6 months and have US's to check on the clot.
As part of the liver monitoring, I was offered to go on a clinical trial of a "diabetes" drug at the hospita to see if it could help my liver disease however after reading the documentation, I declined because it was far too onerous for me and there was no guarantee I'd get the drug or a placebo. Speaking to my GP, he suggested I go on Ozempic in an effort to see if it could help the fatty liver disease, after some lengthy consideration (I had difficulty coming to terms with using a drug diabetics needed maybe more than me), I agreed to try it. I started on the lowest dose and it actually made me hungrier! As the dose was increased, I started to feel unwell to the point where I experienced the most severe diarrhoea and nausea I haver ever experienced which lasted for 2.5 weeks. I ditched the Ozempic as soon as I started with the side effect symptoms as I suspected it was the problem as opposed to a Gastro bug. My GP agreed I should cease its use immediately and eventually, things returned to normal.
Some people might go ok with it, I was sick as dog and regret ever trying it.
The list of Ozempic's side effects is quite formidable and it certainly isn't for everyone.
That does sound like a very unpleasant ordeal G2C.
Listen to us oldies! I am a type 2 diabetic and was given a new drug to reduce the insulin I need to take and they seem to stress the side effects (diarrhoea, vomiting, nausea) and to stop taken it immediately if you get any effects. As I didn't really want that, I asked what the likelihood of side effects were and was told about 5% of patients, but there is no of of knowing what the triggers are.
I was a bit nervous, but everything was fine. I suppose they have to warn about side effects.
I do get slight nausea when blood pressure drops too low (rare).
Certainly sympathies to those who do cop the side effects.
Some people might go ok with it, I was sick as dog and regret ever trying it.
Yep, it can have quite nasty side effects, swollen lump glands, heart palpitations, kidney, pancreas and liver issues.
I was put on it about 4/5 years ago for very similar reasons to yourself, after getting a stent the cardiologist referred me to an endo to see if they could do anything about excess fatty tissue around internal organs. I wasn't that overweight, didn't have diabetes, my cholesterol and BP was OK, but for some reason I had a build up of the bad fats around internal organs. Luckily I was in the 50% that it worked for, I had some side-effects but lost 13% of my body weight and importantly the fat around internal organs diminished significantly. All the time I was on it, which was just short of 2 years, I had blood tests every 8 weeks looking at 34 different indicators. I've been off it for 2 years, and I have put back about 3% of that weight, but importantly so far my regular Ultrasounds look good.
But hands down this stuff is a medicine, not a beauty therapy as it is being used by some, and regardless of whether you use it correctly or incorrectly it can deliver the worst side-effect of all!