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Poll

Should we seriously consider adopting Sharia law in Australia?

Yes and kill the infidels.
[ 0 ] (0%)
Yes and have mercy on the infidels.
[ 0 ] (0%)
Yes and spare the women and children of the infidels.
[ 0 ] (0%)
No because Australians are so cool they realise religion is a bunch of crap.
[ 3 ] (25%)
No because Australians know that women matter more than beards and beheading innocent people.
[ 9 ] (75%)

Total Members Voted: 11

Topic: Rock the Casbah (Read 19072 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: Rock the Casbah

Reply #45 –
Quote from: LanceRomance on
Quote from: DJC on
Quote from: LanceRomance on
Quote from: DJC on


Not according the Sheik Abdul Azim who says that ISIS/ISIL is the enemy of Islam.  99% of the people they kill are Muslims.

That maybe the case DJC but they are still using parts of the Koran as a basis for the killing to meet their ends.

No they're not LR.  They rely on an interpretation or corruption of the Koran rather than what is written.  A bit like the right to lifers who use the Bible to justify killing folk at fertility centres.

I don't know how you can misinterpret the koran.

It is very succinct and to the point.

What ISIS and many other Islamist extremists do is take the Koran as the literal word of God as written by Mohammed in the 7th century.
And if that is what you are doing then it is very hard to misinterpret because it is all there in front of you.
The problem with the Qu'ran, like any religious book, is that, while it might have been written by a single author (quite unusual), it was put together by a single author. It is synthesis of writings from an extended period of time. As such, there are contradictions, there are good days and bad days, there are days when the Prophet felt betrayed with those close to him, who he then went to war with and there were days when he was raving. All this stuff was not arranged or edited by the Prophet, but by the people who followed him. Nor was it ever meant to be a blueprint for life for Muslims: it merely became so. The Prophet wrote for the problems and issues of his day and shows his hopes for the (near) future morals of his followers, based on the morals he saw of his people.

Times have changed. So has the way people relate to one another. A society has the morals it can afford and we can afford very different attitudes to what was acceptable in 635 AD. Smiting one's enemies is not the only way to control them, nor is cutting of a hand the only way to control a thief. As a result, much of what he wrote is no longer relevant.

And much of what he wrote is ignored by those who look for his writings to confirm their own views. For example, during the Crusades victorious Muslims often offered their defeated opponents to opportunity to convert to Islam and live (as a slave), or remain Christian and die. However, the Qu'ran states quite clearly that no Muslim may own another Muslim, that Muslims should not be slaves. Did that stop the Muslim leaders? Not a bit. They did not understand or chose to ignore one of the specific rules left by the Prophet.
Live Long and Prosper!

Re: Rock the Casbah

Reply #47 –
More than 120 Islamic scholars from around the world wrote an open letter to the leader of ISIS Al-Baghdadi, denouncing ISIS and its fundamentals. Everyone should at least go through these points to understand how ISIS’s ideology is far away from the teachings of the Quran and the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Full letter link is in the comments section.

Quick summary of the 17 page letter:

"1. It is forbidden in Islam to issue fatwas without all the necessary learning requirements. Even then fatwas must follow Islamic legal theory as defined in the Classical texts. It is also forbidden to cite a portion of a verse from the Qur’an—or part of a verse—to derive a ruling without looking at everything that the Qur’an and Hadith teach related to that matter. In other words, there are strict subjective and objective prerequisites for fatwas, and one cannot ‘cherry-pick’ Qur’anic verses for legal arguments without considering the entire Qur’an and Hadith.

2. It is forbidden in Islam to issue legal rulings about anything without mastery of the Arabic language.

3. It is forbidden in Islam to oversimplify Shari’ah matters and ignore established Islamic sciences.

4. It is permissible in Islam [for scholars] to differ on any matter, except those fundamentals of religion that all Muslims must know.

5. It is forbidden in Islam to ignore the reality of contemporary times when deriving legal rulings.

6. It is forbidden in Islam to kill the innocent.

7. It is forbidden in Islam to kill emissaries, ambassadors, and diplomats; hence it is forbidden to kill journalists and aid workers.

8. Jihad in Islam is defensive war. It is not permissible without the right cause, the right purpose and without the right rules of conduct.

9. It is forbidden in Islam to declare people non-Muslim unless he (or she) openly declares disbelief.

10. It is forbidden in Islam to harm or mistreat—in any way—Christians or any ‘People of the Scripture’.

11. It is obligatory to consider Yazidis as People of the Scripture.

12. The re-introduction of slavery is forbidden in Islam. It was abolished by universal consensus.

13. It is forbidden in Islam to force people to convert.

14. It is forbidden in Islam to deny women their rights.

15. It is forbidden in Islam to deny children their rights.

16. It is forbidden in Islam to enact legal punishments (hudud) without following the correct
procedures that ensure justice and mercy.

17. It is forbidden in Islam to torture people.

18. It is forbidden in Islam to disfigure the dead.

19. It is forbidden in Islam to attribute evil acts to God.

20. It is forbidden in Islam to destroy the graves and shrines of Prophets and Companions.

21. Armed insurrection is forbidden in Islam for any reason other than clear disbelief by the ruler and not allowing people to pray.

22. It is forbidden in Islam to declare a caliphate without consensus from all Muslims.

23. Loyalty to one’s nation is permissible in Islam.

24. After the death of the Prophet, Islam does not require anyone to emigrate anywhere.”

So LR here are a few examples for you of the Koran being contradicted by ISIS.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: Rock the Casbah

Reply #48 –
Carrotts.

You are missing the point.

Crash even highlighted the same point.
If you are reading in the context of the 7th century it is entirely different.

Islam doesnt have a central figure like a pope so self appointed leaders can use the passages literally.

Also... they arent koran quotes..

Re: Rock the Casbah

Reply #49 –
I know they're not quotes. They are summaries of what is in there.

I'm not missing the point at all, you are.

5. It is forbidden in Islam to ignore the reality of contemporary times when deriving legal rulings.

That addresses your other point.
Ignorance is bliss.

ONWARDS AND UPWARDS!

Re: Rock the Casbah

Reply #50 –
Quote from: PassIt2Carrots on
I know they're not quotes. They are summaries of what is in there.

I'm not missing the point at all, you are.

5. It is forbidden in Islam to ignore the reality of contemporary times when deriving legal rulings.

That addresses your other point.

If you can find the corresponding passage in the koran I will be greatful.

Re: Rock the Casbah

Reply #51 –
Just an FYI, it is forbidden in Islam to commit violence against other believers of God.

Therefore, the only people who need fear Islamic people who are true to their beliefs, are to be atheists.
"everything you know is wrong"

Paul Hewson