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Topic: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda (Read 6893 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #210 –
Quote from: bratblue on
Stats can be read either way Paul.......

I'm sure I'm missing something obvious, but I'm not exactly sure what you mean.

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #213 –
How many years have I been saying we are to slow  and yet we recruit slow players ( sos really Stuffed up ) not just saints think about all years where sides just blown us away . Now u 12 game plan and our strategy from Full back worst in competition  2022 proves that yet Voss and co change nothing for 23 season . Please sick of Coleman medalists and saad , Doc missing Need to fix our game plan and hopefully Austin can nail some recruits because sos failed in my eyes

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #214 –
Quote from: Lods on
I actually thought we came prepared. The plan seemed sound given we were without Saad and Docherty. It was always going to be on the mids and forwards and the lack of connection between those two groups was the main problem. Part of the issue is we have two stand-out forwards aided by some rather mediocre performing assistants.
Our small forwards are ineffective and our mids aren't impacting the scoreboard.
We came with the right attitude but were let down to often by poor decisions and disposal. The criticism in my eyes was more about our ability to react and nullify once the midfield advantage was lost after half-time, and yes I guess that is on Voss. Yep, the cross ground kicking is often frustrating. It's often used when there is really no advantage to it.
Voss apparently had a few personal issues during the lead-up to the game which kept him a way from the club for a day or two. It can't be used as an excuse but it may have had some effect on his focus.
Ill admit we were better prepared v the Saints and played better than the Adelaide game but we couldn't adjust in game (as we did the first the first three rounds) and our ball use was deplorable. I'm torn, I  feel like we are playing worse than what we are and yet I can't see us lifting and playing better. The next 7 weeks will reveal all, it will tell us where we are really at and who has gone past us. So far, Ross and his StK boys have gone passed us giving us wind burn on the way through. The Cheats with Scott at the helm look far more stable and better coached at the minute. The Cats are knocking on the door of the 8 and with a string of home games, coupled with our difficult ones coming up will knock us out for sure.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #215 –
Quote from: Macca37 on
I don't understand the fixation with statistics.  If they are an accurate reflection of the game then we should have won.

Football statistics don't show whether a disposal by hand or foot was effective or whether it caused a turnover resulting in a goal; whether the ball was kicked sideways or backwards to no effect; whether a ruck tap was to our advantage etc, etc.

Until there is ever a meaningful breakdown of the statistics I regard them as being covered by the saying "lies, damn lies and statistics".
Macca stats aren't the be all and end all for me but they do tell a bit of a story. We beat the Saints in almost every stat yet lost by 4 goals (or near enough to that). What does that the reveal? We got enough of the footy but were horrible with it at critical junctures of the game. There is enough there for Voss to say in his presser that he was happy with some aspects but...
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #216 –
Quote from: Gointocarlton on
Macca stats aren't the be all and end all for me but they do tell a bit of a story. We beat the Saints in almost every stat yet lost by 4 goals (or near enough to that). What does that the reveal? We got enough of the footy but were horrible with it at critical junctures of the game. There is enough there for Voss to say in his presser that he was happy with some aspects but...
His presser was him living in denial a bit, the work in progress stuff is for teams like Nth, Hawks etc who are freshly rebuilding.
We should be the finished article all tooled up to do battle and winning the close ones because our experienced players
are leading the charge and we have the depth to over come injuries like Collingwood do.
There are no excuses anymore just poorly performing players and coaches depending on the day and the opposition.
Its been 8 years of rebuilding and its time to deliver or as a great man once said..." get off the pot"....

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #217 –
Can't argue with any of that EB.

While I don’t think it's gloom and doom just yet. I also don't think we have the all the right pieces in place.

We've seen our defence, midfield, and running back depth come up short in the past 12 months. Persistent injuries, underperforming (high picks, big bucks) or unsuitable recruitment, and slow or inadequate player development are likely contribtors.

This years recruits look good but we've got some making up to do. Nail a couple more selective additions providing speed, good disposal, and durability, and top 8 should be sustainable. I won't talk flags 🤐

I'm really hopeful we'll stabilise and improve on the back of some key returns and good post-bye form. We are screaming out for stability across lines. When we have that our connection improves and system holds up better. That's not to say we're improving at the rate of others, but we should be holding our own and chalking up the W's to stay in touch. At least that's how I see it.

Go Blues


Coming together is the beginning.
Keeping together is progress.
Working together is success.
Henry Ford.

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #218 –
Quote from: laj on
Yes. It was actually only 15 min that beat us, generally due to our crap. Without that we may have been on top of the ladder. On the bright side we have alot more improvement in us than St.Kilda. Hopefully it comes to fruition, the hard part.

So true. It was, again, a lapse of around 15 mins as you say, that cost us (along with poor execution at times). We do it just about every game. From memory about the only game, win or lose, where there was no lapse was the D1ckers game last year... our only 4 qtr game I can recall.

And absolutely true that we have considerable improvement in us, if not... God help us!
Only our ruthless best, from Board to bootstudders will get us no. 17

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #219 –
Mistakes,  injuries, lapses, skill errors, poor I50 entry,  poor I50 pressure, vital goals missed.  Our story for a long time now and no indication imo that we are really overcoming these issues. We have systemic problems.
Reality always wins in the end.

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #220 –
A large part of our problem is a lack of continuity together.
While all our players get a fair few games each season it's a constant mix and match.

-We have half a dozen of our better players who are quite injury prone....some long term.
-We have others who are in and out of the side with minor injuries.
-How often does our best midfield take the field together
-How often does our best back six take the field together.
-In recent times how often has the side played 4 or 5 games together with just one or two changes...I doubt it's often, unless the injury toll is high and we have no suitable replacements.

Developing systems and stucture in that situation would be difficult.
As they line up each week they probably ask each other..."and who are you again?"

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #221 –
Quote from: cookie2 on
Mistakes,  injuries, lapses, skill errors, poor I50 entry,  poor I50 pressure, vital goals missed.  Our story for a long time now and no indication imo that we are really overcoming these issues. We have systemic problems.

So true.  Since the rebuild began the problems you have outlined have remained a constant despite a large turnover in  players, several new coaches and many assistant coaches. 

It is demoralising for supporters and players alike.

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #222 –
Quote from: cookie2 on
Mistakes,  injuries, lapses, skill errors, poor I50 entry,  poor I50 pressure, vital goals missed.  Our story for a long time now and no indication imo that we are really overcoming these issues. We have systemic problems.
It's all between the ears!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2024... Moir of the same to come

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #223 –
Quote from: Lods on
A large part of our problem is a lack of continuity together.
While all our players get a fair few games each season it's a constant mix and match.

-We have half a dozen of our better players who are quite injury prone....some long term.
-We have others who are in and out of the side with minor injuries.
-How often does our best midfield take the field together
-How often does our best back six take the field together.
-In recent times how often has the side played 4 or 5 games together with just one or two changes...I doubt it's often, unless the injury toll is high and we have no suitable replacements.

Developing systems and stucture in that situation would be difficult.
As they line up each week they probably ask each other..."and who are you again?"
Other injury hit teams seem to be developing structures ok and fast....Stkilda have run without their two key forwards all year, have been missing their captain for 2-3 games as well...if we had Charlie, Harry and Crippa out we would all be screaming how unlucky we are but those teams like Stkilda and Collingwood with all their ruckman injured have found a way to win.
Those clubs in particular seem to have embraced setbacks and these inexperienced incoming players have stepped up to the plate...Owens, Caminiti, Frampton, Johnson, Hill.....etc.....why have Stkilda under Lyon been able to grasp his physically taxing game plan so quickly even all these unknown kids and spuds like Frampton who couldnt get a kick in a cow paddock at the Crows?
Whats the message at those clubs that makes these players want to fight out every game no matter what personnel are on the park....

Re: AFL Rd 6 2023 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs St Kilda

Reply #224 –
Personally, compared to last season when I think we were in form but lost games we should have won, this year is the exact opposite and we look sadly out of form but have managed to win games we should probably have lost!

I don't think it has much to do with injuries or MC, I think it's a form line issue.

Other than Cripps, and now it seems Walsh, I can't say anybody else has shown consistent output.

The good news, Cerra looked to be on the up last game, a couple of others were better like Newman and SoJ. It's a good sign as long as we can get them all singing from the same hymn book.
The Force Awakens!