The Battle of Bell St.
Does Bell St. need battling over? I've never thought so, but.... ;)
The game is set for the Queen's Birthday Monday at Coburg (Piranha Park, no less) at 2:00 PM.
I wonder if they know that a Brazilian Prostitute is known as a Piranha?
Coburg vs. Northern Blues
Monday Jun 08
Piranha Park at 2pm
Coburg
B: Iacobaccio Gregory Lehmann
HB: Robertella Hartley Clifton
C: N.Thomas Mance Venditti
HF: MacDonald Carnell Gleeson
F: Morton Orr Younan
R: Goodwin Uysal McConnell
Int: Totino Christensen* Hill Cauchi Linton Fox Posar Symes Allan
Northern Blues
B: Fields Jaksch McGuinness
HB: Holman Foster Yarran
C: Russell Walsh Boekhorst
HF: Ellard Jones Johnson
F: Gowers Watson Wilson
R: Bolger Wilkinson Whiley
Int: Dirago Aurrichio Johnston Smith Bransgrove Strachan Armitage Malone* Cattapan
It wasn't that long ago that Clem Smith got a senior game. Now he is reserve for the 2nds. We again are mightily short on ruck power. It could be the difference between winning and losing.
Coburg vs. Northern Blues
Monday Jun 08
Piranha Park at 11am
Coburg
B Bamblett Fairbairn Linton
HB Posar Robinson Williams
C Cooper Northe Totino
HF Cauchi Madden Allan
F Sortino Hill Schraven
R Symes Fox Brandt
Int Fitaax Evans Tang
Ogden McConville Bailey
Cleary Corigliano Holdsworth
Easton Hobijn-Allen Boyd
Hemala
Northern Blues
B Kilpatrick J. Roberts Porter
HB Smith Johnston Strachan
C Haynes Ballard Soncin
HF Totevski Walton Armitage
F Murray Dirago Bransgrove
R Aurrichio Cattapan Perry
Int Whillas Toman Jenkins
McDonagh Aujla Wild
M. Gleeson Schiavello Stevens
Boscarini Jordan Conlon
Langwell
According to the Northern Blues website, Alex Aurrichio is to debut today.
Accordingwith more fitness work. Solid and strongess work. Northern Blues website, Alex Aurrichio is to debut today.
He has.not done too bad for a rookoe's rookie. Get's around ok but could be even better with more fitness work. No system discernable in the forward line. A lead or two wouldn't go astray. Wasteful in the third with the wind and will likely lose die to that.82 50 to NB 7 9 51 @ start of the last.
One point down at the moment.
At 3/4 time:
DISPOSALS: McGuinnes 25, Cattapan 20, Ellard 18, Boekhorst 17, Walsh 17, Yarran 16
Boekhorst had 9 disposals that quarter.
GOALS: Ellard 2, Watson 2, Yarran, Johnson, Jaksch.
19 minutes down and we are now 2 points behind after a Coburg goal. Low scores and hard yakka.
13 minutes gone ina tough last quarter. Big goal from Ellard after good work up field. The Blues are now 4 points in front.
Holding on like grim death. Some of the newbies doing well. Jaksch showing great composure under all sorts of pressure just then.
Low scoring qtr so just need to hold on for about 7 min or so.
Two quick goals to Coburg and things now look difficult. 8 points down against the gale.
2015 AFL Victoria Development League
Coburg 4.2 5.3 6.5 10.10 (70)
Northern Blues 1.1 6.4 9.9 11.14 (80)
GOALS:
Coburg: Evans 3 Madden 3 Cooper Williams Bailey Schraven
Northern Blues: Asani 2 Jordan 2 Jenkins 2 Haynes Aujla Walton Schiavello Stevens
BEST:
Coburg: Corigliano Easton Cooper Holdsworth Bailey Williams
Northern Blues: Ballard Soncin Smith Bolger Jenkins Porter
Coburg 2.1 7.1 8.2 10.5 (65)
Northern Blues 3.2 4.4 7.9 8.9 (57)
Bad kicking is bad football. Where have I heard that before?
Two quick goals to Coburg and things now look difficult. 8 points down against the gale.
Hung on for a long time this qtr but looks tough now.
Great grab by Holman 6 deep and goal. Need one more.
Another goal to us, but it is close to the siren.
NB 9 - 9 - 63
Coburg 10 - 5 - 65
More than a few heart breakers this season for the NB's. But you can't say they give it away.
Lost 63-65
DISPOSALS: McGuinness 30, Cattapan 24, Ellard 23, Walsh 23, Yarran 23, Fields 20.
GOALS: Ellard 3, Watson 2, Yarran, Johnson, Jaksch, Holman.
Interesting to read any reports.
GOALS: Ellard 3, Watson 2, Yarran, Johnson, Jaksch, Holman.
DISPOSALS: McGuinness 30, Cattapan 24, Ellard 23, Walsh 23, Yarran 23, Fields 20
One of the things that worries me the most is that a guy like McGuinness, one of our coaches, is getting the most number of possessions each week. Where are guys like Viojo Rainbow, Smith, Watson, Johnson and co? We are just not getting enough from a lot of listed guys.
Lost 63-65
DISPOSALS: McGuinness 30, Cattapan 24, Ellard 23, Walsh 23, Yarran 23, Fields 20.
GOALS: Ellard 3, Watson 2, Yarran, Johnson, Jaksch, Holman.
Has to be the elevated rookie for CJ5.
Has to be the elevated rookie for CJ5.
x2
Yes Walsh seems to be showing some promise. Anyone know Jones stats?
Another solid performance by Watto with two goals. Will he get a run at it? Not likely with Cas and Kreuz in the side.
Another solid performance by Watto with two goals. Will he get a run at it? Not likely with Cas and Kreuz in the side.
Everitt is ahead of him as a forward too at the moment
Fourth or fifth in line.
I think he's probably done and dusted.... but given he'd be a delisting or a "small value" trade I'd like to see him given 3 or 4 games up forward with us playing a similar style to Saturday.
He may show something another team might like.
Another solid performance by Watto with two goals. Will he get a run at it? Not likely with Cas and Kreuz in the side.
:-X
Everitt is ahead of him as a forward too at the moment
Fourth or fifth in line.
I think he's probably done and dusted.... but given he'd be a delisting or a "small value" trade I'd like to see him given 3 or 4 games up forward with us playing a similar style to Saturday.
He may show something another team might like.
Or he may click into gear like the rest of them did and kick a few bags! :P
I haven't seen Walsh play. Elwood has always stated he has leadership ability. Would love to see him get a few games in our senior squad. With Judd out it would make sense to elevate him and give him a go.
Another solid performance by Watto with two goals. Will he get a run at it? Not likely with Cas and Kreuz in the side.
And Hendeson. The time might be coming when you need to perform to keep your place as a tall on the forward line.
2015 Peter Jackson VFL
Coburg 3.1 7.1 8.2 10.5 (65)
Northern Blues 3.2 4.4 7.9 9.9 (63)
GOALS:
Coburg: Younan 3 Cauchi 2 Carnell 2 Venditti Fox Hill
Northern Blues: Ellard 3 Watson 2 Jaksch Johnson Holman Yarran
BEST:
Coburg: Venditti Orr McConnell Younan Hartley Fox
Northern Blues: Ellard Walsh Armitage Holman Watson McGuinness
Watson got a mention, where others, like Fields and Jaksch, did not. He must have done a fair bit of ruck work, as Aurrichio was the only other ruckman playing and he was debuting. In fact, none of the other talls got a mention. Maybe it just wasn't the day for talls with the wind as it was.
Similarly, Holman must have been doing a negative job, as he did not get 20 possessions.
Liam Jones obviously didn't play otherwise his name would have been up in lights??
Liam Jones obviously didn't play otherwise his name would have been up in lights??
Either that or he was best on ground and they couldn't remember how to spell his name, or forgot to mention him at all. ;D
Either that or he was best on ground and they couldn't remember how to spell his name, or forgot to mention him at all. ;D
I know he cost us little but he's on a 3 year deal, I hope we have a performance based clause in there somewhere as I can't stand the thought of him running around in the 2nds on a good contract.
Or he may click into gear like the rest of them did and kick a few bags! :P
Really can't understand what you see in this guy. He is a dud.
Has proven it time and again. Another disaster pick.
Sexybronco,
Liam Jones needs to be tried in the senior squad as a defender. He is agile enough when the ball comes to ground and I am sure he will learn the art of spoiling the ball. He may offer us more than we think. Rowe couldn't be a gem of a forward, but is a good defender. Lets us try Henderson forward permanently. I agree Jones on a 3 year deal can't be left playing for the Northern Blues.
Another solid performance by Watto with two goals. Will he get a run at it? Not likely with Cas and Kreuz in the side.
Not a "cracking performance" ?
How good must casboults stats in the preseason have been then !!
WOW !
Totally agree Jones to CHB makes a lot of sense.
Tall forwards who don't tend to have that knack of finding a lot of the ball tend to benefit from having someone else to follow around. Jones would appear to fit. He's got really strong hands which would add a lot to our defense.
Totally agree Jones to CHB makes a lot of sense.
Tall forwards who don't tend to have that knack of finding a lot of the ball tend to benefit from having someone else to follow around. Jones would appear to fit. He's got really strong hands which would add a lot to our defense.
Certainly worth trying him there in the NBs. We definitely need to look at all options to get value from him.
Certainly worth trying him there in the NBs. We definitely need to look at all options to get value from him.
I agree cookie, while I don't think he has strong hands, I don't see anything wrong with trying him at chb... IN THE BULLANTS.
He has done nothing to justify a sustained run at chb in the senior team, if however he can string some performances together in the seconds I'll be happy to see him promoted, same with Watson, I'll leave others to judge watsons performance in the conditions.
I agree cookie, while I don't think he has strong hands, I don't see anything wrong with trying him at chb... IN THE BULLANTS.
He has done nothing to justify a sustained run at chb in the senior team, if however he can string some performances together in the seconds I'll be happy to see him promoted, same with Watson, I'll leave others to judge watsons performance in the conditions.
might be worth trying as he, like Watto, lacks creativity and proactivity. LJ might not have the tank for the wing but perhaps he could be an extra-tall forward flanker. Did spend time in the ruck but he's not physically suited. As has been said, others are ahead.Looks to me like he needs structure and non-negotiables to follow until it's all ingrained and he doesn't think twice. Reckon he wants to do the right thing but hasn't got the key.
Sexybronco,
Liam Jones needs to be tried in the senior squad as a defender. He is agile enough when the ball comes to ground and I am sure he will learn the art of spoiling the ball. He may offer us more than we think. Rowe couldn't be a gem of a forward, but is a good defender. Lets us try Henderson forward permanently. I agree Jones on a 3 year deal can't be left playing for the Northern Blues.
Good to see someone else agree with me that Jones should be turned into a key defender. At least trialled there for a decent length of time.
It ain't working as a forward but as a defender with his pace, agility and size he would be more than worth a shot.
He would learn from it also.
It must happen IMO and happen now.
Re Walsh - promote him for Judd now.
Fields can't be too far off either. He's another we have in the wings as rookie waiting for his opportunity.
Must play David Ellard in the seniors.
We need to build our culture the right way.
23 posessions, 10 clearances, 3 Goals in a narrow loss.
It wouldnt be fair for him not to get a game in the ones on the back of that effort. Sends the right message. I keep being reminded we are getting beaten anyway, and if we are going to do so, this is one part of the puzzle we need to get right.
What has happened to Skittles?
Must play David Ellard in the seniors.
We need to build our culture the right way.
23 posessions, 10 clearances, 3 Goals in a narrow loss.
It wouldnt be fair for him not to get a game in the ones on the back of that effort. Sends the right message. I keep being reminded we are getting beaten anyway, and if we are going to do so, this is one part of the puzzle we need to get right.
What has happened to Skittles?
I'd be going for youth rather than the tried and failed......promote one of Walsh, Fields and Gowers is the way forward IMO, Holman is another we need to try.
Ellard is a handy player in the VFL only IMO and while I take your point about rewarding effort we have been down this path with him before and it always
ends with him failing in the seniors and returning to the VFL...
I'd be going for youth rather than the tried and failed......promote one of Walsh, Fields and Gowers is the way forward IMO, Holman is another we need to try.
Ellard is a handy player in the VFL only IMO and while I take your point about rewarding effort we have been down this path with him before and it always
ends with him failing in the seniors and returning to the VFL...
Sure Elwood, and thats why you delist him or trade him at the end of the season because he has been tested and found wanting, but whilst he is with us earning a game the right way, he is setting an example to follow, and the onus is on others to displace him from the seniors, rather than just black ban him for not being good enough.
This is the way to build our culture. In a weekend where Yarran and Ellard both got 23 posessions in the VFL, one was bog and the other was probably his usual classy self, but probably just went.
Chapman was made to wait 4 weeks before getting senior elevation under Thompson back then. We seem to be rewarding players for being young, and for being talented, and not necessarily for playing well. That to me is a sure sign of a club that is not holding itself to high enough standards IMHO. We made the same mistakes with Brock Mclean a few years ago under Ratten as well. He was frozen out of the seniors even though he was performing at a class above the VFL. This is a run of games where Ellard has done what it takes to get a game.
I'd be going for youth rather than the tried and failed......promote one of Walsh, Fields and Gowers is the way forward IMO, Holman is another we need to try.
Ellard is a handy player in the VFL only IMO and while I take your point about rewarding effort we have been down this path with him before and it always
ends with him failing in the seniors and returning to the VFL...
Spot on. Sad, but true.
Sorry, no more Ellard in the seniors. He is not part of our future and we must be looking seriously at other options. Thanks Davie for all your hard work and years of service.
Liam Jones obviously didn't play otherwise his name would have been up in lights??
He did play, but he didn't do a lot from the sounds of things. He took a couple of marks. That is all I know.
Barker, I would be building the blocks for my future midfield right now.
Under Murphy and Gibbs:
- Cripps, Graham, Holman, Walsh, Whiley, Gowers.
These are the guys we must play as much as possible.
Cripps and Graham should play out the year, Cripps ofcourse but Graham too hopefully will only get better,
Holman absolutely deserves a crack and so does Walsh. Those two in ASAP added to Cripps and Graham.
I'd like to get Boekhorst in and maybe even look at half-back for him but I reckon he's creative enough to get a go. Maybe for Tutt.
Must play David Ellard in the seniors.
We need to build our culture the right way.
23 posessions, 10 clearances, 3 Goals in a narrow loss.
It wouldnt be fair for him not to get a game in the ones on the back of that effort. Sends the right message. I keep being reminded we are getting beaten anyway, and if we are going to do so, this is one part of the puzzle we need to get right.
What has happened to Skittles?
Only if he was meeting his KPI's though right ;)
What was his defensive pressure like, considering he'll be playing the small forward role?
Only if he was meeting his KPI's though right ;)
What was his defensive pressure like, considering he'll be playing the small forward role?
Thry wanted us to extend Mick's contract on the back of last year's shakey season, to sign up Barker now, to take invaluable experience from our up and commers and give it to guys we want to delist.
I'm pretty sure he's trying to sink the club :P
Thry wanted us to extend Mick's contract on the back of last year's shakey season, to sign up Barker now, to take invaluable experience from our up and commers and give it to guys we want to delist.
I'm pretty sure he's trying to sink the club :P
Thats some massive para phrasing right there.
Ill leave it at that. No point uncovering ground already covered. Time to move forward and If Barker still wants the senior gig at our club after being in the main man's shoes for a little while, good luck to him.
The pressure cooker will turn up in about 2.5 years regardless of what happens.
It's a privilidge to play for Carlton. Something some of the boys might need to learn.
I was at the game yesterday but missed most of the first quarter.
Liam Jones struggled all day and was largely ineffective from what I saw. He tried hard and ran to contests but what I noticed most he seems to get there second a lot and his overhead marking wasn't dominant even though he was larger than many of the players around him. I think what others posters have written about him is true - he does actually play small.
I thought that Jaksch was okay in parts and seemed to lose a bit of confidence when he made a few mistakes - admittedly one of them probably ended up costing us the game in the last quarter when he simply had to mark, spilt it and then that allowed a two on one for Coburg to basically seal the match. He did however slot a fantastic goal from nearly 60m out and whilst he had the wind with him it never looked like missing on about a 45 degree angle. Quite a hoof. It would be interesting to see how he went as a forward because there is a bit to work with I think.
Other talls such as Watson really lumbered around and I just don't see him ever really getting any better than he is but he does have a nice kick on him at times.
I thought Yarran looked disinterested at times and a couple of those possessions really belong to others who actually kicked back to him to give him the ball and you could see the feeling was Yarran was the better ball user so they kicked it to him. Unfortunately he tried too much at times and many of his kicks were not the usual high standard. Also missing from his game was the running drive and he just seemed to trot around rather than get involved. No doubt in my mind he could be one of the best players in the comp if he wanted to be.
Did Boekhurst and Whiley play?
Thry wanted us to extend Mick's contract on the back of last year's shakey season, to sign up Barker now, to take invaluable experience from our up and commers and give it to guys we want to delist.
I'm pretty sure he's trying to sink the club :P
Sorry Thry but that is pretty funny, and has an element of truth to it, other than the 'trying to sink the club' comment of course! :P
Must play David Ellard in the seniors.
We need to build our culture the right way.
23 posessions, 10 clearances, 3 Goals in a narrow loss.
It wouldnt be fair for him not to get a game in the ones on the back of that effort. Sends the right message. I keep being reminded we are getting beaten anyway, and if we are going to do so, this is one part of the puzzle we need to get right.
What has happened to Skittles?
Given that we are going to be getting Yarran, Gibbs and possibly Diasy and Jamison back in the side after the break, how do you propose we fit Ellard in with that?
Tutt probably looks odds on to make way...apart from that, no easy targets to send back to the 2's after the crows match.
Army is usually one to make way, but given he kicked 2 goals, be a bit harsh to drop him.
Who else makes way?
Graham, Menzel, Buckley??
Can't fit ellard in.
Did Boekhurst and Whiley play?
Don't think Whiley did. If he did, he didn't do much. I can't find any mention of him and he is good enough that he should get a mention against Coburg.
Boekhorst played and did OK. He had one very good quarter. Not so much in the other 3, but OK. Not mentioned in the best and probably shouldn't have been.
I was at the game yesterday but missed most of the first quarter.
Liam Jones struggled all day and was largely ineffective from what I saw. He tried hard and ran to contests but what I noticed most he seems to get there second a lot and his overhead marking wasn't dominant even though he was larger than many of the players around him. I think what others posters have written about him is true - he does actually play small.
I thought that Jaksch was okay in parts and seemed to lose a bit of confidence when he made a few mistakes - admittedly one of them probably ended up costing us the game in the last quarter when he simply had to mark, spilt it and then that allowed a two on one for Coburg to basically seal the match. He did however slot a fantastic goal from nearly 60m out and whilst he had the wind with him it never looked like missing on about a 45 degree angle. Quite a hoof. It would be interesting to see how he went as a forward because there is a bit to work with I think.
Other talls such as Watson really lumbered around and I just don't see him ever really getting any better than he is but he does have a nice kick on him at times.
I thought Yarran looked disinterested at times and a couple of those possessions really belong to others who actually kicked back to him to give him the ball and you could see the feeling was Yarran was the better ball user so they kicked it to him. Unfortunately he tried too much at times and many of his kicks were not the usual high standard. Also missing from his game was the running drive and he just seemed to trot around rather than get involved. No doubt in my mind he could be one of the best players in the comp if he wanted to be.
Jaksch was a great forward as a junior (Vic CHF from memory) and knows where and when to present for the ball, which is exactly what Liam Jones can't do. I don't see him as a natural defender and I'd definitely like to see him given a go in the forward line.
It's pretty basic, Jones back and Jaksch forward.
Don't think Whiley did. If he did, he didn't do much. I can't find any mention of him and he is good enough that he should get a mention against Coburg.
Boekhorst played and did OK. He had one very good quarter. Not so much in the other 3, but OK. Not mentioned in the best and probably shouldn't have been.
Thanks Crash.
Jaksch was a great forward as a junior (Vic CHF from memory) and knows where and when to present for the ball, which is exactly what Liam Jones can't do. I don't see him as a natural defender and I'd definitely like to see him given a go in the forward line.
It's pretty basic, Jones back and Jaksch forward.
We are stuck with Jones for two years so anything is worth a shot...Jacksh was a swingman for the Oakleigh Chargers and did play CHF more often than not, his marking was the feature of his play.
Hendersons future may dictate where Jaksch plays.....
Henderson Back, with Rowe and Jamison when fit. That sets the defence.
Casboult and Kruezer as forwards with obvious spells in the ruck. I reckon that leaves Jaskch jones or Watson and you know my feelings on the other two. Jaskch as a third tall with Everitt and walker floating through there as your mobile running fourth tall.
Thanks Crash.
The Coyote played in the midfield but didn't do a whole lot, perhaps a couple of kicks and handballs. Can't really recall him in the first half.
Henderson Back, with Rowe and Jamison when fit. That sets the defence.
Casboult and Kruezer as forwards with obvious spells in the ruck. I reckon that leaves Jaskch jones or Watson and you know my feelings on the other two. Jaskch as a third tall with Everitt and walker floating through there as your mobile running fourth tall.
Took the words right out of my mouth. Exactly as I see it also.
Use Jones in the NBs as a defender to teach him how to work and work hard. Just might be able to get something out of him there. As a forward though, forget it.
Henderson Back, with Rowe and Jamison when fit. That sets the defence.
Casboult and Kruezer as forwards with obvious spells in the ruck. I reckon that leaves Jaskch jones or Watson and you know my feelings on the other two. Jaskch as a third tall with Everitt and walker floating through there as your mobile running fourth tall.
I completely 100% agree with this.
Jones HAS to go back and learn. Might even be the making of him. Toughen him up I hope too.
Jaksch forward more often for sure as he does know how to run and lead much like Hendo.
Henderson to CHB to stiffen up the defence. Then he can swing forward if need be from time to time.
Watson no.
Henderson Back, with Rowe and Jamison when fit. That sets the defence.
Casboult and Kruezer as forwards with obvious spells in the ruck. I reckon that leaves Jaskch jones or Watson and you know my feelings on the other two. Jaskch as a third tall with Everitt and walker floating through there as your mobile running fourth tall.
i think HENDERSON is gone
Henderson Back, with Rowe and Jamison when fit. That sets the defence.
Casboult and Kruezer as forwards with obvious spells in the ruck. I reckon that leaves Jaskch jones or Watson and you know my feelings on the other two. Jaskch as a third tall with Everitt and walker floating through there as your mobile running fourth tall.
That is a really tall lineup and not so mobile.
I'd prefer 2 of those 3 listed as backs with your 3rd 'tall' White.
You can't play Casboult, Kreuzer and Jaksch in the same forwardline and expect Everitt to fit in there as well. Without a genuine crumbing forward to mop up. Menzel will probably be down there too who plays best as another marking forward.
That forwardline will have the ball cleared out of defence quicker than Yarran with open space.
Personally i wouldn't mind see Hendo+Kreuzer up forward with only one of Wood/Casboult in the side. Throw in Jaksch, Everitt, White and Walker to play your 3rd+4th backs and forwards and you have a better balanced side.
Kreuzer has been found wanting as a forward in the past. I realise he took a great mark on the weekend but it won't take too many great games for the opposition to put more time into him and stop that kind of thing. If he can reproduce what he did on the weekend on a consistent basis then lookout!
Did Boekhurst and Whiley play?
Both Boekhurst and Whiley did play and both showed bits throughout but overall were too quite for too long.
Whiley took awhile to get into the game and probably got a rev up at half time because in the last two quarters showed something particularly in pressure around the ball although didn't win big numbers which he really should be at his level. Boekhurst went the other way and was largely unseen post half time. I noticed him a couple of times but I think the forward line rejig where Yarran went forward and probably had him chasing leather and that doesn't appear to be his strong suit. Down hill skiing seems to be where he currently excels and too many on our list do. I would suggest the coaching panel are trying to throw him on to the ball and make him defend and chase which will take time.
Whiley was solid as defensive midfielder in the last term particularly and I noticed him trying to marshall some troops around him in Coburg attacking forays in the third term but I would say that Holman and Walsh were the more solid midfielders for the day along with the efforts of Ellard. On effort and finish Ellard would be the next promoted although Holman has looked good the last couple of weeks. Also on Whiley I noticed he was in and under the packs a bit but doesn't have the clean Cripps disposal but can go and get it but can't break away.
Another player I watched a bit of whilst not Carlton listed was Alex Aurrichio (big unit) and I liked the look of him. Very raw but casting my mind back to the Setanta days I think this guy is more natural. Big Minson type not afraid to get his body involved but really early in his development and made plenty of rookie ruck mistakes but he'll learn from it. Moves well for the size and if he can learn to read the game a bit might be one to watch longer term. He was number 73 on Monday if anyone else went along.
I'd expect Boekhorst to struggle as the weather get worse and we have more wet conditions....on the other hand I think Whiley will enjoy the mud and slosh a bit more
and become a better player...
Given that we are going to be getting Yarran, Gibbs and possibly Diasy and Jamison back in the side after the break, how do you propose we fit Ellard in with that?
Tutt probably looks odds on to make way...apart from that, no easy targets to send back to the 2's after the crows match.
Army is usually one to make way, but given he kicked 2 goals, be a bit harsh to drop him.
Who else makes way?
Graham, Menzel, Buckley??
Can't fit ellard in.
Judd out is a start. Yarran shouldn't get an elevation ahead of Ellard.
What message does that send? No matter how well you go a more talented player will get a game ahead of you.
Games at Carlton need to be earned, else they are taken for granted and you get players going through the motions at senior level.
Chris Judd played Vfl once. he wanted to win that day too.
#spf, ended up thinking Wiley was tagging in the second half, which was puzzling but if that's going to be his future role then spose it makes some sense.
re: Big Aurri, his beard an demeanor were reminiscent of Mummy for mine. Not sure what his kicking is like but he's strong, no doubt. Must get some kudos for lasting this far and we could do worse than rookie him. Kicking is the key, though.
Judd out is a start. Yarran shouldn't get an elevation ahead of Ellard.
What message does that send? No matter how well you go a more talented player will get a game ahead of you.
Games at Carlton need to be earned, else they are taken for granted and you get players going through the motions at senior level.
Chris Judd played Vfl once. he wanted to win that day too.
Didn't you say winning is everything? Ellard won't win you diddly squat, Yarran will. Time to let the Ellard thing go mate.
Judd out is a start. Yarran shouldn't get an elevation ahead of Ellard.
What message does that send? No matter how well you go a more talented player will get a game ahead of you.
Games at Carlton need to be earned, else they are taken for granted and you get players going through the motions at senior level.
Chris Judd played Vfl once. he wanted to win that day too.
Yarran was dropped for disciplinary reasons.
Otherwise he's one of the first players picked.
If he goes back and does his penance....(and it looks like he didn't sook it and went OK with 20+ touches)
then he's once again one of the first players picked.
The point has been made.
Didn't you say winning is everything? Ellard won't win you diddly squat, Yarran will. Time to let the Ellard thing go mate.
No.
I think you have me confused with someone else, or are applying your spin to a different point made.
Yarran was dropped for disciplinary reasons.
Otherwise he's one of the first players picked.
If he goes back and does his penance....(and it looks like he didn't sook it and went OK with 20+ touches)
then he's once again one of the first players picked.
The point has been made.
Unfortunately though Lods Yazz is a bit of a recidivist. He definitely needs to get over that once and for all.
No.
I think you have me confused with someone else, or are applying your spin to a different point made.
No, you have definitely said winning is of utmost importance and that's why blokes like Ellard should play over youth.
Yarran was dropped for disciplinary reasons.
Otherwise he's one of the first players picked.
If he goes back and does his penance....(and it looks like he didn't sook it and went OK with 20+ touches)
then he's once again one of the first players picked.
The point has been made.
The point has been made, but we have been here before. Ratten dropped Yarran to the NB's back in 2012. He starred that day and came straight up again.
He might have gone OK, but Ellard was huge. He kicked 3 goals, got it 23 times, and won 10 clearances. We lost by 2 points. That contribution was enourmous.
That is the only thing we need to reward consistent effort and application, and that way when Ellard is displaced in future, it won't be by a bloke just going ok in the VFL, it will be by a guy forcing a point to get a game (hopefully).
There will be weeks where guys get a game by default, but when there is genuine competition for a senior spot, the only critieria being judged to give a player a spot on the team should be how they have been performing to get that opportunity. Shouldnt it?
No, you have definitely said winning is of utmost importance and that's why blokes like Ellard should play over youth.
Definately? I have stated it in context of rewarding the effort (see above) rather than gifting people games because they are young. What I suggest, is that perhaps you consider that maybe you missed the point.
That is a really tall lineup and not so mobile.
I'd prefer 2 of those 3 listed as backs with your 3rd 'tall' White.
You can't play Casboult, Kreuzer and Jaksch in the same forwardline and expect Everitt to fit in there as well. Without a genuine crumbing forward to mop up. Menzel will probably be down there too who plays best as another marking forward.
That forwardline will have the ball cleared out of defence quicker than Yarran with open space.
Personally i wouldn't mind see Hendo+Kreuzer up forward with only one of Wood/Casboult in the side. Throw in Jaksch, Everitt, White and Walker to play your 3rd+4th backs and forwards and you have a better balanced side.
Compare that Set up to some of the better teams
Freo - Johnson, McPharlin, Dawson (when fit) - Pavlich/Clarke/Taberner/Mayne
West Coast - Schofield, McGovern, Mckenzie/Brown (if fit) - Kennedy/Sinclair/McInnes/Darling
Sydney - Richards/Grundy/Reid - Buddy/Tippet/Goodes/
Hawks - Lake/Frawley/Statton/Shoenmakers - Roughy/Hale/Gunston/
That is a really tall lineup and not so mobile.
I'd prefer 2 of those 3 listed as backs with your 3rd 'tall' White.
You can't play Casboult, Kreuzer and Jaksch in the same forwardline and expect Everitt to fit in there as well. Without a genuine crumbing forward to mop up. Menzel will probably be down there too who plays best as another marking forward.
That forwardline will have the ball cleared out of defence quicker than Yarran with open space.
Personally i wouldn't mind see Hendo+Kreuzer up forward with only one of Wood/Casboult in the side. Throw in Jaksch, Everitt, White and Walker to play your 3rd+4th backs and forwards and you have a better balanced side.
Yeah I'd prefer Everitt and Walker both to play forward. Probably Yarran too. We need to kick some goals.
Cas, MK and Hendo may rotate through there too. All three of them though are more plodders.
Keep Cas closer to goal and let the more mobile and quicker Everitt, Walker and White patrol further afield.
I'm not keen on White playing in defence too often.
Jaksch will have to get in line right now but there'll be an opening soon enough knowing us.
There will be weeks where guys get a game by default, but when there is genuine competition for a senior spot, the only critieria being judged to give a player a spot on the team should be how they have been performing to get that opportunity. Shouldnt it?
No
Ahead of that must come which player offers the most in terms of value to the senior side.
Normally I'm all for rewarding effort.
Had Yarran sulked around in the VFL I'd support him having some more time at the lower level.
But
Ellard 23
Yarran 23
Which player is likely to reproduce that at senior level?
If we play a similar style of football to last weekend which player is likely to fit better into the senior team?
Yarran is at a really important stage in his Carlton career.
How we handle him could be the making or breaking of him as a Carlton player.
He appears to be playing angry and frustrated at the moment.
That seems to be showing through in his attitude at other times.(punctuality etc)
I understand the reasons for taking a stand and keeping him in the lower grade.
It might work.....but he might also drop his bundle in which case he's probably finished as a Carlton player.
Fair enough some might say.
That's the simple solution...pack him off.
We'll get something for him.
But if we play it the other way and promote him and support him through this period, getting him playing with a bit of enthusiasm again, the benefits to us are obvious.
At the end of the day it's really up to the "people managers" at the club and Yarran's own attitude.
We can't do much about the latter and we've proven to be pretty hopeless at the managing the "troubled player" side of things.
This is a bit of a test for the club.
No
Ahead of that must come which player offers the most in terms of value to the senior side.
Normally I'm all for rewarding effort.
Had Yarran sulked around in the VFL I'd support him having some more time at the lower level.
But
Ellard 23
Yarran 23
Which player is likely to reproduce that at senior level?
If we play a similar style of football to last weekend which player is likely to fit better into the senior team?
Yarran is at a really important stage in his Carlton career.
How we handle him could be the making or breaking of him as a Carlton player.
He appears to be playing angry and frustrated at the moment.
That seems to be showing through in his attitude at other times.(punctuality etc)
I understand the reasons for taking a stand and keeping him in the lower grade.
It might work.....but he might also drop his bundle in which case he's probably finished as a Carlton player.
Fair enough some might say.
That's the simple solution...pack him off.
We'll get something for him.
But if we play it the other way and promote him and support him through this period, getting him playing with a bit of enthusiasm again, the benefits to us are obvious.
At the end of the day it's really up to the "people managers" at the club and Yarran's own attitude.
We can't do much about the latter and we've proven to be pretty hopeless at the managing the "troubled player" side of things.
This is a bit of a test for the club.
I understand what you're saying lods, but I think the more important question with Yarran is WHY he seems to be playing angry...
Is it his personal life ?
Is/was he dissatisfied with mm/coaching/gameplan ?
Is he feeling outcast because Eddie and Jeff aren't here anymore ?
Is he playing injured and thus frustrated ?
Does he actually want to be somewhere else ?
Depending on if there is a problem and what it is will have a large bearing on what we as a club can do...
No
Ahead of that must come which player offers the most in terms of value to the senior side.
Normally I'm all for rewarding effort.
Had Yarran sulked around in the VFL I'd support him having some more time at the lower level.
But
Ellard 23
Yarran 23
Which player is likely to reproduce that at senior level?
If we play a similar style of football to last weekend which player is likely to fit better into the senior team?
Yarran is at a really important stage in his Carlton career.
How we handle him could be the making or breaking of him as a Carlton player.
He appears to be playing angry and frustrated at the moment.
That seems to be showing through in his attitude at other times.(punctuality etc)
I understand the reasons for taking a stand and keeping him in the lower grade.
It might work.....but he might also drop his bundle in which case he's probably finished as a Carlton player.
Fair enough some might say.
That's the simple solution...pack him off.
We'll get something for him.
But if we play it the other way and promote him and support him through this period, getting him playing with a bit of enthusiasm again, the benefits to us are obvious.
At the end of the day it's really up to the "people managers" at the club and Yarran's own attitude.
We can't do much about the latter and we've proven to be pretty hopeless at the managing the "troubled player" side of things.
This is a bit of a test for the club.
Pay that as a reason why you would look at promoting Yarran, but I don't believe you would do it at the expense of Ellard as that does send the wrong message.
The team must come first, so if you were to promote Yarran on that performance, you would look at other places where things are not quite coming together and playing angry and frustrated may be one more reason to leave him in the VFL to help him calm down. So you sell it to him differently regarding senior footy, and you tell him its a pressure release. Go back to the VFL, enjoy your footy for a change, and the pressure is off regarding performing. Just get out there, and enjoy yourself for a bit, and let us know when you are feeling better about playing senior footy and perhaps a little less frustrated.
For all we know, he is angry at the footy club for the decision making they have employed over the past few years for no result and gone regardless, in which case playing him now will not make any difference regarding what he does moving forward.
Or maybe he was just pissed at the direction the club was headed under Mick?
Either way, promoting Ellard over Yarran would be one of the worst football decisions made in the history of any club. Ellard has time and time again provided himself to be not up to senior football. Even pushing Yarran to one side, playing Ellard full stop is just plain stupid. Been there, done that, time to move on. I just hope our club has taken a step forward with regards to this.
TBF Thry, some of your suggestions are so far off the mark ATM I'm wondering whether you are deliberately trying to be provocative.
Or maybe he was just pissed at the direction the club was headed under Mick?
Either way, promoting Ellard over Yarran would be one of the worst football decisions made in the history of any club. Ellard has time and time again provided himself to be not up to senior football. Even pushing Yarran to one side, playing Ellard full stop is just plain stupid. Been there, done that, time to move on. I just hope our club has taken a step forward with regards to this.
TBF Thry, some of your suggestions are so far off the mark ATM I'm wondering whether you are deliberately trying to be provocative.
Not in this case. Its about setting standards. You perform in the VFL, you get a senior opportunity. That way the Matthew Watsons, Dillon Vjojo-Rainbows. Patrick Cripps, and any other youngster who gets to Carlton knows, its not about how talented you are, but how hard you are willing to work to get your opportunity.
They won't die wondering, and if supremely talented blokes don't get a game, they will know exactly why.
We haven't set the standards for a long time at Carlton, and I believe that this is something we should start getting right. I can think of no better time to make these statements than when you are sitting dead last.
Not in this case. Its about setting standards. You perform in the VFL, you get a senior opportunity. That way the Matthew Watsons, Dillon Vjojo-Rainbows. Patrick Cripps, and any other youngster who gets to Carlton knows, its not about how talented you are, but how hard you are willing to work to get your opportunity.
They won't die wondering, and if supremely talented blokes don't get a game, they will know exactly why.
We haven't set the standards for a long time at Carlton, and I believe that this is something we should start getting right. I can think of no better time to make these statements than when you are sitting dead last.
What we desperately need at this stage is to start winning games of football or at least be competitive.
We must field the team that gives us the best opportunity to do that.
I find it a bit strange to be arguing this because I've always been an "effort" man.
I like players like Simon Wiggins, Luke O'Sullivan and probably our best "good average player" ever Adrian Hickmott (wouldn't we love to have a few like him at the moment)
They make the best of sometimes limited talent.
I even have a soft spot for Ellard, because I think he gives a 100%
But the thing is, we won't be a great side until fringe players like Ellard aren't in the selection equation.
Effort really counts for little in the long run if you don't have the talent.
It's ability that will get you the games.
If those fringe players work their bums off they just might get a game ahead of a more talented player through their performances.
But the talented player will, and should always have the edge.
A combination of effort and ability should be the standard we're looking for in our players.
What we desperately need at this stage is to start winning games of football or at least be competitive.
We must field the team that gives us the best opportunity to do that.
I find it a bit strange to be arguing this because I've always been an "effort" man.
I like players like Simon Wiggins, Luke O'Sullivan and probably our best "good average player" ever Adrian Hickmott (wouldn't we love to have a few like him at the moment)
They make the best of sometimes limited talent.
I even have a soft spot for Ellard, because I think he gives a 100%
But the thing is we won't be a great side until fringe players like Ellard aren't in the selection equation.
Effort really counts for little in the long run if you donlt have the talent.
It's ability that will get you the games.
If those fringe players work their bums off they just might get a game ahead of a more talented player through their performances.
But the talented player will, and should always have the edge.
A combination of effort and ability should be the standard we're looking for in our players.
Like it. Good summary. And that's the harsh reality of it all.
This is like polishing your car before taking it to the wreckers. I like ensuring my car always looks in tip top shape but you have to be practical too.
Not in this case. Its about setting standards. You perform in the VFL, you get a senior opportunity. That way the Matthew Watsons, Dillon Vjojo-Rainbows. Patrick Cripps, and any other youngster who gets to Carlton knows, its not about how talented you are, but how hard you are willing to work to get your opportunity.
They won't die wondering, and if supremely talented blokes don't get a game, they will know exactly why.
We haven't set the standards for a long time at Carlton, and I believe that this is something we should start getting right. I can think of no better time to make these statements than when you are sitting dead last.
Regardless of all this Yarran talk....
You still want Ellard to be picked ahead of Gibbs, Jamison and Daisy?
Ok, Judd is out...possibly drop Tutt. Who else are you dropping to fit them in?
You will end up having to drop a kid from the side to play Ellard. A kid who performed reasonably well. You want to set standards and reward effort...and that is by dropping kids?
Convince me.
Tell me your the ins and outs for our next game.
To choose from you've got our squad from the crows (minus judd) plus Gibbs, Jamison, Daisy, Yarran and Ellard to choose from.
Go.
Compare that Set up to some of the better teams
Freo - Johnson, McPharlin, Dawson (when fit) - Pavlich/Clarke/Taberner/Mayne
West Coast - Schofield, McGovern, Mckenzie/Brown (if fit) - Kennedy/Sinclair/McInnes/Darling
Sydney - Richards/Grundy/Reid - Buddy/Tippet/Goodes/
Hawks - Lake/Frawley/Statton/Shoenmakers - Roughy/Hale/Gunston/
Thats fine. Compare our KPPs against theirs. What you will find is that we are not as mobile, agile, fit, accurate or good in the air, or on the ground as them.
How many AA's coleman medals and premierships have that lot got. You know what ours have? Nada and zilch by comparison.
It's not strictly the 'tall' part, its the overall ability. Our talls are not good enough in other areas to demand selection in the numbers you suggest.
This is like polishing your car before taking it to the wreckers.
LOL.
Regardless of all this Yarran talk....
You still want Ellard to be picked ahead of Gibbs, Jamison and Daisy?
Ok, Judd is out...possibly drop Tutt. Who else are you dropping to fit them in?
You will end up having to drop a kid from the side to play Ellard. A kid who performed reasonably well. You want to set standards and reward effort...and that is by dropping kids?
Convince me.
Tell me your the ins and outs for our next game.
To choose from you've got our squad from the crows (minus judd) plus Gibbs, Jamison, Daisy, Yarran and Ellard to choose from.
Go.
The easy answer is yes. Ellard ahead of them. Gibbs has not earned a game in his career yet, it's been gifted to him. Jamo is fairly cooked, so is daisy.
The easy answer is yes. Ellard ahead of them. Gibbs has not earned a game in his career yet, it's been gifted to him. Jamo is fairly cooked, so is daisy.
You're insane.
The easy answer is yes. Ellard ahead of them. Gibbs has not earned a game in his career yet, it's been gifted to him. Jamo is fairly cooked, so is daisy.
Ellard ahead of Gibbs...lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gibbs, our reigning best and fairest, not earned a game in his career.....lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Any other gems to lighten up pour Friday night?...lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You're insane.
Don't call him insane.
Because sometimes insanity is confused with genius.
i don't want any suggestion that he may be a genius.
Don't call him insane.
Because sometimes insanity is confused with genius.
i don't want any suggestion that he may be a genius.
lol....fair call
Just came across this for last week's game:
(http://i.imgur.com/T1HqXym.png)
I note with interest that Whiley didn't get a mention at all in the possession count or best players.
A couple of things to notice also in what are raw and basic figures. Coburg won but appear to have been slaughtered in the possession count. Aurri's hitouts are an excellent total on debut. Wiley seemed pretty anonymous to me, especially in the first half but that may say more about me than him. Perhaps it was good work in and under of the sort that can be overlooked but that doesn't explain the comparative dearth of handballs. Guess he's an accumulator and we can hope he goes on to convert that into value around the ground as he develops more.
It's great to see the fixture drawers excelling themselves again...
Why draw afl and their vfl affiliate to have corresponding bye rounds ?
It's bad for players returning from injury or pressing for senior selection and it's a missed opportunity to get a few bums on seats, as I'm sure that a couple of blues fans would go to the vfl to get a view of some emerging players.