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Topic: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday (Read 73720 times) previous topic - next topic
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Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #315
Weiters absolutely is a lock to get back in this team. He is still better than Marchbank/Plowman and many others and in any case you would have him ahead of Mullet or O'Shea.

There is no chance that there is no spot for Weiters, the guy is going to be a gun

Marchbank and Plowman can and will play on different players to what Weitering would. I've got nothing against him, but there are plenty of teams that will try and go small up forward and in all honesty, Jones is playing better than Weitering ever has, and he might be the #1 key back and there might not need a #2. Marchbank and Plowman can play small, but can play tall if need be as well.

It would also limit our running ability having him in the side as it means someone who would run more, perhaps even a pure mid, would have to make way for him.

Lods is closer to the money saying he'd probably be played forward, but unless its in place of casboult, i'd prefer to keep McKay in the side getting games under his belt.


Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #317
Watched abit of the game, happy with any win whether its JLT or season proper, breeds the right culture. I like the way we appeared to move the ball quicker, still a work in progress though. I still saw a little too much sideways movement and indecisiveness from players at HB or on the wing whilst trying to thrust fwd. Players need to look for the player running past and go bang. You cant stop and prop every time to access the options, its what stifles our game IMO. Decisions need to be made much quicker and can be made easier on the bloke with the footy by those around him getting into the right position and get motoring to provide the option (ie no stationary witches hats pointing into the air). I guess this takes time to master but I would rather pay the penalties for the odd error playing this way than than slow, stop, prop look sideways stuff.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #318
In a post I done a couple of months ago and based purely on last seasons form I had him only slight below Marchank and Plowman for the season and I had him ahead of all the other Under 21 players except Curnow and Marchbank. I rated him a 69 on the season with Plowman a 72 and Marchbank a 73.

For a 2nd year player, his season was still good and still better than a lot of our other players, including 3 of the Rising Star nominees (imo)

....and where was Jones? I'm tipping above all of them as well.

Which is my point. The other 3, are all in good form and held down the major defensive posts down back.

You can have your 3 best players rated 99, 98 and 97....but if they are all ruckmen, then you can't fit them all in the side.

Nobody is saying Weitering isn't talented, or couldn't perform at AFL level. Just saying that it is possible, that the blokes we have currently playing a similar role to him, are playing it better than he has/will and we may be better off for team balance (getting more mids into the side) not having him in it.

Bolts wanted to play the kids last year. So many debutants, so many rising stars. Yet even he admitted that he played too many in 1 game (port??) and said he got it wrong. Team balance was all out of whack and we got flogged. The same is possible for key backs.

Hell, Setanta and his little helpers gave teams all sorts of grief because it we were so small and would run off/around/through their 'excess' key defenders when played against us. I think the game is heading a little bit towards the way we played it then, with Richmond being the obvious point of reference.

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #319
Watched abit of the game, happy with any win whether its JLT or season proper, breeds the right culture. I like the way we appeared to move the ball quicker, still a work in progress though. I still saw a little too much sideways movement and indecisiveness from players at HB or on the wing whilst trying to thrust fwd. Players need to look for the player running past and go bang. You cant stop and prop every time to access the options, its what stifles our game IMO. Decisions need to be made much quicker and can be made easier on the bloke with the footy by those around him getting into the right position and get motoring to provide the option (ie no stationary witches hats pointing into the air). I guess this takes time to master but I would rather pay the penalties for the odd error playing this way than than slow, stop, prop look sideways stuff.

I haven't seen the game, but that sound like what the guys on the radio were saying. Progress, but still work to be done.

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #320
.........................................

Hell, Setanta and his little helpers gave teams all sorts of grief because it we were so small and would run off/around/through their 'excess' key defenders when played against us. I think the game is heading a little bit towards the way we played it then, with Richmond being the obvious point of reference.

 ;D

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #321
I understand the point you're trying to make Kruddler.
In some respects we may be the victim of more of our defenders exceeding expectations than anticipated.
We drafted/ traded in a lot with the expectation that not all picks would be successful, and we've probably done better than expected.
So what will happen?

If Kruddler is right there will be games Weitering will miss because of no effective match-up.
My expectation is Weitering will play every game unless he's injured.
And it will be because he is the best option in the coaches eyes.
A coaching group worth its salt wouldn't play a player just because he was the number one draft pick...would they?
You would expect (hope)not.

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #322
I cannot recall, but wasn't Weitering in the leagues top intercept marks in his first season if not even leading, then we played him forward! ::)
The Force Awakens!

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #323
I understand the point you're trying to make Kruddler.
In some respects we may be the victim of more of our defenders exceeding expectations than anticipated.
We drafted/ traded in a lot with the expectation that not all picks would be successful, and we've probably done better than expected.
So what will happen?

If Kruddler is right there will be games Weitering will miss because of no effective match-up.
My expectation is Weitering will play every game unless he's injured.
And it will be because he is the best option in the coaches eyes.
A coaching group worth its salt wouldn't play a player just because he was the number one draft pick...would they?
You would expect (hope)not.

My prediction is that he'll play every game too.
My gut tells me that it may not be in the best interests to do so.
Unfortunately, history tells me that they will certainly play #1 picks for benefits that have nothing to do with game day performance.

I hope that we have learned from our mistakes. Nobody is automatically gifted games and we pick teams to match the opposition and win.

 

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #324
It seems almost perverse that our back line is such that we could contemplate omitting a player of Weeters' caliber.

The media will be onto it very quickly.

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #325
I cannot recall, but wasn't Weitering in the leagues top intercept marks in his first season if not even leading, then we played him forward! ::)
Given time to develop, Weitering will make Rance look like a hack. Macca saying on SEN that he will spend most of his time in defence was music to my ears. I would hope he spends all his time in defence.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #326
It seems almost perverse that our back line is such that we could contemplate omitting a player of Weeters' caliber.

The media will be onto it very quickly.
Rest easy Paul, it aint gonna happen.
2017-16th
2018-Wooden Spoon
2019-16th
2020-dare to dream? 11th is better than last I suppose
2021-Pi$$ or get off the pot
2022- Real Deal or more of the same? 0.6%
2023- "Raise the Standard" - M. Voss Another year wasted Bar Set
2024-Back to the drawing boardNo excuses, its time

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #327
Given time to develop, Weitering will make Rance look like a hack. Macca saying on SEN that he will spend most of his time in defence was music to my ears. I would hope he spends all his time in defence.

Rest easy Paul, it aint gonna happen.

Just as an aside, when he takes breaks from defence, I wonder if the club would consider playing him on ball, right in the guts ? He can't use his marking ability, but all his other attributes would be very handy - big, strong, good footy brain, good distributor, good reader of the play, clean hands..........

Just a small left field thought.

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #328
I still saw a little too much sideways movement and indecisiveness from players at HB or on the wing whilst trying to thrust fwd. Players need to look for the player running past and go bang. You cant stop and prop every time to access the options, its what stifles our game IMO

That’s why I was disappointed that SPS didn’t play. I think we made him play ‘unnaturally’ through stop and prop when his natural instinct is to take the game on.  He might very well be the surprise packet of 2018.

Re: JLT 2018: Carlton vs St Kilda at Ikon on Wednesday

Reply #329
My prediction is that he'll play every game too.
My gut tells me that it may not be in the best interests to do so.
Unfortunately, history tells me that they will certainly play #1 picks for benefits that have nothing to do with game day performance.

I hope that we have learned from our mistakes. Nobody is automatically gifted games and we pick teams to match the opposition and win.

I agree on both highlighted points, more attention to selection needs to be made and we now have a wider group of decent players to choose from.
Weitering is a very good footballer who made a great start to his career but I think since his return from that bad shoulder injury he has been more tentative and avoids
potential heavy contact. Have no doubt he will overcome this issue but at the moment I would be handpicking his opponents rather than having him as an automatic CHB, FB etc and just having him take whoever plays those KP slots for the opposition.
He doesnt play with freedom or urgency anymore and isnt the attacking rebounder he was, I think he enjoyed the spell up forward but it didnt do much for his football and I'd prefer he played down back...