Carlton Supporters Club

Around The Grounds => The Sports Desk => Topic started by: LP on October 13, 2013, 01:31:41 PM

Title: Formula 1
Post by: LP on October 13, 2013, 01:31:41 PM
Well, the rumors have been rife for some time about disparity between RBR's Vettel car and the rest of the grid. Now it appears some retired F1 drivers and engineers have managed to expose something truly odd going on at RBR only with the Vettel car.

A lot of people claimed Webber had sour grapes when he complained of the playing field not being level in seasons gone by. Several race teams who had examine race telemetry could not explain the performance RBR was able to get out of Vettel's car, especially exiting corners. Now it seems they have stumbled over a big clue, exposed by Vettel's huge Singapore race win margin.

Traction control has been banned for several years, to ensure that it isn't an issue all race teams use a F1 control package for the engine management. During the F1 traction control years cars had a very similar sound, especially when power was applied as a car exits a corner. F1 enthusiasts will recall that sound, that deep rattle gun like reverberation as the traction control took care of managing the engine power. Now it appears, for Vettel's cars and for Vettel's car alone, that sound is back!

The speculation is that RBR engineers have found away around the F1 control package to offer Vettel a traction control advantage over the rest of the field. Ironically for Webber, only the Vettel car exhibits the alleged behavior!

Some F1 engineers speculate RBR is using some smart mechanical design so that KERS gets feedback from the suspension loading. Giving Vettel the equivalent of a hybrid electromechanical traction control system. They have offered track audio recordings as evidence.

http://www.youtube.com/v/8DwXOPN7ZIM

Ironically, a week or so after the rumor surfaced, Webber has ended up on pole and the early reports from Japan are that the Vettel sound has disappeared!

In defense engineers from RBR are rumored to have linked the unusual sound to Vettel short shifting due to gear box problems. But in the last few races Webber has also been required to short shift and his car did not exhibit that sound.

A fleet of media and F1 connected engineers are now scouring footage and audio from past races and seasons to see if they can find a pattern of audio that will either support or dismiss the speculation.

But there is one thing that is confirmed, if RBR has found to have fiddled with KERS or traction control Vettel's car is illegal.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: kruddler on October 13, 2013, 01:54:09 PM
Yes it does sound like traction control.

Although it also sounds like a very low engine rev, which you'd get from short shifting.

I've been to over a dozen race weekends over the years, including in Austin, and the cars have changed dramatically over that time.

It would've been around 9 years ago when there was a wet qualifying day and i was on turn 5 ? as listening to the cars coming around. It was very clear to me then that the best cars had the best traction control...and they did sound a lot like that. It was also very clear that some stragglers (jordon/jaguar) had some absolutely rediculous traction control systems. It was so bad and sounded so different that the crowd were actually laughing everytime one of their cars came around. It sounded very sick.

Anyway, over the journey you pick up sounds like that and the other time you hear that is when cars are doing their in laps after qualifying, keeping low revs and short shifting on their way back to the pits to conserve their tires and potentially fuel. It is certainly not a sound you hear often on race day, but one you'll here every qualifying day.

So as for Vettel and the traction control...it isn't proof he has it, but it isn't proof he doesn't.

In short the video is very much inconclusive.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: LP on October 13, 2013, 02:35:44 PM
So as for Vettel and the traction control...it isn't proof he has it, but it isn't proof he doesn't.

In short the video is very much inconclusive.

I agree, I think without wanting to point the finger the other teams are saying Vettel's car sounds like that while he is doing hot laps and putting +32s on the rest of the field. That is hard to explain if he is short shifting, it is a juicy rumor at the very least, but it does seem to have some substance which is the reason I summarised it here!
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: LP on May 16, 2014, 02:04:49 PM
I read today that Vettel and Ricciardo take breakfast together and share a sense of humour, like best buddies.

Careful Daniel, Vettel is obeying the first rule of war and mining you for your secrets of speed!

Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer!  ;)

Make sure it's all Quid Pro Quo!  ::)
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 16, 2014, 05:18:32 PM
I read today that Vettel and Ricciardo take breakfast together and share a sense of humour, like best buddies.

Careful Daniel, Vettel is obeying the first rule of war and mining you for your secrets of speed!

Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer!  ;)

Make sure it's all Quid Pro Quo!  ::)
I just vomited in my mouth.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: malo on May 19, 2014, 12:18:57 PM
Sad news reports this morning, Sir Jack Brabham has passed away aged 88.

The title "Legend", gets bandied around far to readily these days.......Jack Brabham was a bone-fide legend.

A Triple world champion right smack bang in the most dangerous era of Motor Racing there has ever been.

RIP.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: kruddler on May 19, 2014, 07:15:32 PM
Sad news reports this morning, Sir Jack Brabham has passed away aged 88.

The title "Legend", gets bandied around far to readily these days.......Jack Brabham was a bone-fide legend.

A Triple world champion right smack bang in the most dangerous era of Motor Racing there has ever been.

RIP.

Indeed, sad news. He had a good run though.

Heard tribute on Triple M this arvo with Skaife telling a few facts about him.

His 3rd title was won in a team that he owned, in a car that he built. First and only time that has ever happened.

He raced until he was 44, and won a race in that year as well.

During his time driving at the highest level, 30 competitors died.

It was a brutal sport and he not only survived, but excelled.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: ItsOurTime on May 19, 2014, 10:22:13 PM
RIP Does not get the recognition he deserves as a sportsman in Australia. Only 4 men have won more championships. As mentioned, drove in a period it was a death sport. Some of those old time accidents are brutal and really hard to watch.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: Juddkreuzer on May 19, 2014, 11:27:23 PM
RIP Does not get the recognition he deserves as a sportsman in Australia. Only 4 men have won more championships. As mentioned, drove in a period it was a death sport. Some of those old time accidents are brutal and really hard to watch.

X2

Love to see Ricciardo win as a tribute to the great man.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: raven on October 07, 2014, 03:48:17 PM
I presume this is the latest F1 thread?

Apologies if not.

Video emerged of the 2nd tractor crash in the F1.

Brutal. Hope Bianchi pulls through.

http://www.news.com.au/sport/motorsport/jules-bianchi-crash-video-surfaces-of-f1-incident-at-japanese-grand-prix/story-fnec578q-1227082081644
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: LP on October 07, 2014, 03:52:49 PM
Yes, stupid thing is for all the money they spend on the track they don't put collision underride guards on the heavy vehicles. Something so basic that is relatively cheap, is already fitted to many on road semi-trailers, might have made a massive difference.

Instead this poor guy gets it in the head from the tractors counterweight.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: ItsOurTime on October 07, 2014, 04:50:07 PM
I presume this is the latest F1 thread?

Apologies if not.

Video emerged of the 2nd tractor crash in the F1.

Brutal. Hope Bianchi pulls through.

http://www.news.com.au/sport/motorsport/jules-bianchi-crash-video-surfaces-of-f1-incident-at-japanese-grand-prix/story-fnec578q-1227082081644

Geez, just in slow motion that looked like a high speed impact. Terrible stuff, hope he pulls through
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: LP on March 17, 2015, 04:56:35 PM
Bit disappointing to see Ricciardo being given the Eagles No.1 ticket!

Only a year or so ago he was at Princes Park getting jumpers and the full treatment off Carlton!

(http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2012/03/15/1226299/870573-daniel-ricciardo.jpg)
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: ItsOurTime on March 17, 2015, 05:31:39 PM
And here I was thinking he was a fanatical Carlton supporter :P
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: Juddkreuzer on March 17, 2015, 05:44:46 PM
And here I was thinking he was a fanatical Carlton supporter :P

With a name like his he should be. Should get Juddy to have a word in his ear.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: kruddler on March 17, 2015, 06:11:39 PM
Bit disappointing to see Ricciardo being given the Eagles No.1 ticket!

Only a year or so ago he was at Princes Park getting jumpers and the full treatment off Carlton!

(http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2012/03/15/1226299/870573-daniel-ricciardo.jpg)

He's always been a big Eagles fan. We tried our darndest to persuade him to the Blues, but he stayed loyal.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: ItsOurTime on July 19, 2015, 10:39:01 AM
I can't find the thread where his accident was posted but sadly Jules Bianchi has passed away.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: LP on August 22, 2015, 10:29:44 PM
Is it time for Alonso to pull the plug?
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: kruddler on August 23, 2015, 04:24:00 AM
Is it time for Alonso to pull the plug?

From McLaren perhaps. Honda has failed him and them.

There were rumours he was either going to buy his own team, or go to McLaren.....not sure which team he was going to buy, but i reckon he made the wrong call.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: c4e on September 01, 2015, 01:52:06 PM
Is it time for Alonso to pull the plug?

Slightly off topic but pretty sure Darryl Beatie said that Rossi should have retired a couple of years ago too  ::)
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: kruddler on September 01, 2015, 07:17:19 PM
Slightly off topic but pretty sure Darryl Beatie said that Rossi should have retired a couple of years ago too  ::)

Motorsport is the same as footy.

Get a good car/bike under you and you'll look a million bucks.
Get a good team/club around you and you'll look a million bucks.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 19, 2016, 06:29:43 PM
What do we think of the new Quali elimination format? I loved it until the last 4 mins. I was expecting a final shootout but tyre limitations ended Q3 with 3 mins remaining. Anticlimactic to say the least.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: kruddler on March 19, 2016, 07:44:07 PM
What do we think of the new Quali elimination format? I loved it until the last 4 mins. I was expecting a final shootout but tyre limitations ended Q3 with 3 mins remaining. Anticlimactic to say the least.

The commentators certainly let their feelings be known.

Personally i think the idea of it is awesome.

Unfortunately it appears some of the teams have very little idea of how it works. Too many times they sent drivers out too late meaning they simply wasted a set of tyres for nothing.

Agree about places like SPA though, when the 90 sec limit is pretty stupid....and even the 5 minutes before someone is eliminated in Q3 is pretty stupid. You ould have the scenario that in a wet Q3, not 1 car has actually got around their outlap and completed their hot lap before drivers are starting to get eliminated!

Under the current setup, is there really any need to have it split up over 3 mini qualifying sessions anyway?

Needs a rethink, but i'm not sure it will get a chance. I suspect it may be a one off.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 19, 2016, 09:36:27 PM
The commentators certainly let their feelings be known.

Personally i think the idea of it is awesome.

Unfortunately it appears some of the teams have very little idea of how it works. Too many times they sent drivers out too late meaning they simply wasted a set of tyres for nothing.

Agree about places like SPA though, when the 90 sec limit is pretty stupid....and even the 5 minutes before someone is eliminated in Q3 is pretty stupid. You ould have the scenario that in a wet Q3, not 1 car has actually got around their outlap and completed their hot lap before drivers are starting to get eliminated!

Under the current setup, is there really any need to have it split up over 3 mini qualifying sessions anyway?

Needs a rethink, but i'm not sure it will get a chance. I suspect it may be a one off.
Give them more sets of tyres per GP and it will work. Its exciting in theory.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: dodge on March 19, 2016, 10:04:57 PM
Good idea, but needs adjusting to allow completion of a lap or a longer elimination time   From the pits to do an out lap and complete a timed is about 3mins.  This means that the second last team may need to pit before they know they are that close to elimination.

Without adjustment it is just musical chairs at a 5yo birthday party
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 19, 2016, 11:10:04 PM
Good idea, but needs adjusting to allow completion of a lap or a longer elimination time   From the pits to do an out lap and complete a timed is about 3mins.  This means that the second last team may need to pit before they know they are that close to elimination.

Without adjustment it is just musical chairs at a 5yo birthday party
I like it. They calculate the fork out of everything, this is just another calc and strategy they have to do. Get it wrong, you're stuffed, get it right, the driver lives to play another day.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: dodge on March 20, 2016, 10:50:06 PM
F1 is an interesting political beast.  I hear they are reverting to the previous format for the next race ate some complaints...
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 20, 2016, 11:42:44 PM
It was a disaster yesterday, they had to scrap it.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: kruddler on March 21, 2016, 07:56:00 PM
It was a disaster yesterday, they had to scrap it.

It WAS a disaster, but i think the teams are mostly to blame for that.

They simply did not send ther drivers out at the right time.

Its pretty simple. Every 90 seconds a guy gets eliminated. Thats how long it takes to do a lap. You need to do 2 (out lap + hot lap) which is 3 minutes.

If you are next to be eliminated and you are in the pits, too bad.
If you are the the one to be eliminated after the next one and you are in the pits. Too bad.
If there are 2 drivers between you and the 'elimination bubble' get your butt out on the track immediately, otherwise you will essentially be gone too in a minute or so.
If there are 3 drivers between you and the 'elimination bubble get your butt on the track immediately, otherwise as the guy above you doing a hit lap can put you out in a minute or so.
etc...

Teams need to think at least 3 minutes ahead. They weren't.

Why Ferrari decided to sit out the last 5 minutes or so was a weird decision. If it was simply to save tyres for the race, let them have more tyres for qualifying.

A lot of the issues can be fixed if the teams wise up to what is going on, and they are allowed extra sets of tyres.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 21, 2016, 08:09:42 PM
It WAS a disaster, but i think the teams are mostly to blame for that.

They simply did not send ther drivers out at the right time.

Its pretty simple. Every 90 seconds a guy gets eliminated. Thats how long it takes to do a lap. You need to do 2 (out lap + hot lap) which is 3 minutes.

If you are next to be eliminated and you are in the pits, too bad.
If you are the the one to be eliminated after the next one and you are in the pits. Too bad.
If there are 2 drivers between you and the 'elimination bubble' get your butt out on the track immediately, otherwise you will essentially be gone too in a minute or so.
If there are 3 drivers between you and the 'elimination bubble get your butt on the track immediately, otherwise as the guy above you doing a hit lap can put you out in a minute or so.
etc...

Teams need to think at least 3 minutes ahead. They weren't.

Why Ferrari decided to sit out the last 5 minutes or so was a weird decision. If it was simply to save tyres for the race, let them have more tyres for qualifying.

A lot of the issues can be fixed if the teams wise up to what is going on, and they are allowed extra sets of tyres.
I agree Krudd, I think the number of tyres was the problem, they could afford to have another crack. Give em more tyres and let the elimination format sort the the men from the boys. Get it wrong? Tough titties.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: ItsOurTime on March 22, 2016, 12:16:53 AM
I haven't been following this sport with any sort of regularity since the engine use rules came in (don't think I missed a race for 10 years).... Boy, it's a wacky sport now! Couldn't even hear the things...
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: Juddkreuzer on March 22, 2016, 02:17:33 AM
How Alonso walked away from that is a modern miracle.

It's a shame poor old Senna missed out on these technical advances.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 22, 2016, 08:22:21 AM
How Alonso walked away from that is a modern miracle.

It's a shame poor old Senna missed out on these technical advances.
The modern formula one car monocoques are an incredible piece of engineering as was displayed in Sunday. Senna's death was a freak accident where a suspension component broke off as he struck the wall and pierced him fatally just above the eye through the visor. You may recall Massa had a peice of suspension break off a car in front of him a few years ago when he was at Ferrari. It struck him above eye through the visor and suffered an eerily similar injury to Senna yet made a full recovery. I see a few teams have tested a few different designs which offer protection to the drivers head in the wake of the Bianchi tragedy. Its probably only a matter of time where they are in a completely closed cell. Someone was definitely looking down on Alonso no doubt. He even said after the crash he used up one of his lives. Scary stuff that.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: LP on March 22, 2016, 08:26:19 AM
I used to love F1 but it's dead to me now, it's no longer racing.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 22, 2016, 08:50:16 AM
I used to love F1 but it's dead to me now, it's no longer racing.
I still love it, its just super technical these days compared to even 5-10 years ago. A mate of mine spoke to a Red Bull engineer at the GP the first year the new turbo/electric power units where used. The engineer told him these things are off the planet in terms of performance, might not sound the best but are insane.
I was watching qualifying on Sat and they showed in car of Lewis during a lap. Not only was he going flat knacker on a quali lap, he was constantly adjusting brake bias via steering wheel buttons between most corners. I must commend the FIA, they are always trying to limit team or technology input to the driver. Now they have limited what they can tell the driver over radio comms. I'm sure the teams will get around it the shifty buggers. But I under how many have dropped off F1, its not everyone's cup of tea any more.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: LP on March 22, 2016, 11:30:22 AM
I still love it, its just super technical these days compared to even 5-10 years ago. A mate of mine spoke to a Red Bull engineer at the GP the first year the new turbo/electric power units where used. The engineer told him these things are off the planet in terms of performance, might not sound the best but are insane.
I was watching qualifying on Sat and they showed in car of Lewis during a lap. Not only was he going flat knacker on a quali lap, he was constantly adjusting brake bias via steering wheel buttons between most corners. I must commend the FIA, they are always trying to limit team or technology input to the driver. Now they have limited what they can tell the driver over radio comms. I'm sure the teams will get around it the shifty buggers. But I under how many have dropped off F1, its not everyone's cup of tea any more.

I don't mind the quiet cars and technology as long as there is racing. The "formula" part of F1 barely exists anymore, contrast racing in F1 with racing in other categories there is no comparison. Even Hamilton was recently quoted as stating F1 is boring.

Senna had the right idea years ago, remove most of the technology and leave it up to driver skills, then you get racing. Soon they will be able to replace the F1 drivers with robots and you will barely notice a difference!

In any case F1 is no longer the regime for the worlds best drivers, because you only get a drive if you can bring $50M~$100M to the team plus sponsors.

I recall at Bathhurst there was a drive off between Button and Lowndes, a modified F1 car and a touring car with drivers swapping. After a few laps Lowndes was within 0.3s of Button, after just as many laps in the touring car Button was still 7s adrift of Lowndes time. It was very diplomatically reported! ;)

Reminds me of when some celebs on Top Gear almost match times with F1 drivers, hard to believe but it happens.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: kruddler on March 22, 2016, 07:56:04 PM
I don't mind the quiet cars and technology as long as there is racing. The "formula" part of F1 barely exists anymore, contrast racing in F1 with racing in other categories there is no comparison. Even Hamilton was recently quoted as stating F1 is boring.

Senna had the right idea years ago, remove most of the technology and leave it up to driver skills, then you get racing. Soon they will be able to replace the F1 drivers with robots and you will barely notice a difference!

In any case F1 is no longer the regime for the worlds best drivers, because you only get a drive if you can bring $50M~$100M to the team plus sponsors.

I recall at Bathhurst there was a drive off between Button and Lowndes, a modified F1 car and a touring car with drivers swapping. After a few laps Lowndes was within 0.3s of Button, after just as many laps in the touring car Button was still 7s adrift of Lowndes time. It was very diplomatically reported! ;)

Reminds me of when some celebs on Top Gear almost match times with F1 drivers, hard to believe but it happens.

OK, last line first. They never compete in the same cars, so not sure where you have drawn that comparison.

Button vs Lowndes...
Was unaware of that ever happening, but i reckon that says more about the bathurst track than anything else.
Put the same cars at Monaco and Lowndes wouldn't be able to finish a lap in the F1 car.

re Senna...
Courtesy of his death, there was a real shift to make the sport safer....and it worked.
Up until last year with the delayed death of Jules Bianchi, nobody had died since Senna in an unparalled improvement in the sport.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: LP on March 22, 2016, 08:22:46 PM
OK, last line first. They never compete in the same cars, so not sure where you have drawn that comparison.

Button vs Lowndes...
Was unaware of that ever happening, but i reckon that says more about the bathurst track than anything else.
Put the same cars at Monaco and Lowndes wouldn't be able to finish a lap in the F1 car.

re Senna...
Courtesy of his death, there was a real shift to make the sport safer....and it worked.
Up until last year with the delayed death of Jules Bianchi, nobody had died since Senna in an unparalled improvement in the sport.

It's fair enough, I was sure the F1 Car from Top Gear in one year was used by Celebs in another.

It's wishful thinking about Lowndes and drivers of his ilk not being able to lap Monarco.

I'm not saying remove the safety features, but the stuff that automates normal driver functions.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: kruddler on March 23, 2016, 07:44:25 PM
It's wishful thinking about Lowndes and drivers of his ilk not being able to lap Monarco.

Lowndes can lap monaco, but i'm telling you the difference in gap between the cars will be very much different to what the bathurst ones were.

Chances are Lowndes has at least driven Monaco on a computer game. I know i've done 1000's of laps around there.
Has Button ever seen Bathurst before?
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: LP on March 24, 2016, 02:47:39 AM
Has Button ever seen Bathurst before?

It doesn't explain 7 seconds, especially after both drivers had practice sessions..

FYI, Lowndes actually offered the same excuse for Button to the media, but behind the scenes sentiment was very different.  I know this because I have business associates who drive, engineer and manage one of the major domestic teams. Two of them spent almost a decade in F1 as part of a race crew. One was a chief engineer and the other a pit manager. As much as I appreciate your simulator experience I think I'll trust their opinion.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: kruddler on March 24, 2016, 08:55:27 AM
It doesn't explain 7 seconds, especially after both drivers had practice sessions..

FYI, Lowndes actually offered the same excuse for Button to the media, but behind the scenes sentiment was very different.  I know this because I have business associates who drive, engineer and manage one of the major domestic teams. Two of them spent almost a decade in F1 as part of a race crew. One was a chief engineer and the other a pit manager. As much as I appreciate your simulator experience I think I'll trust their opinion.

It doesn't explain 7 seconds? BS.

You mentioned Top gear in an earlier post.
Go back and watch the episode involving the nurburgring (well, one of a couple).
How much time does everyone shave off their times after their first times around there?
Once you get to know the track, time starts falling off.
Lowndes, if he is like most aussie drivers, has grown up watching bathurst his whole life and knows every inch of the track. You don't think thats worth 7 seconds compared to someone who has never even seen it? Keep in mind there is very little runoff areas to help you if something goes wrong.

BTW, Buttons driving style is somewhat conservative, easy on the tyres. Not used to throwing cars around like the V8 drivers
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: LP on March 24, 2016, 11:25:47 AM
It doesn't explain 7 seconds? BS.

You mentioned Top gear in an earlier post.
Go back and watch the episode involving the nurburgring (well, one of a couple).
How much time does everyone shave off their times after their first times around there?
Once you get to know the track, time starts falling off.
Lowndes, if he is like most aussie drivers, has grown up watching bathurst his whole life and knows every inch of the track. You don't think thats worth 7 seconds compared to someone who has never even seen it? Keep in mind there is very little runoff areas to help you if something goes wrong.

BTW, Buttons driving style is somewhat conservative, easy on the tyres. Not used to throwing cars around like the V8 drivers

Lets examine your claim.

Firstly you haven't explained why Lowndes and Button posted similar times in the F1 car(0.3s), but vastly different times in the V8(7s). Button is alleged to have got out of the V8 and said that the car was not drivable(I believe he said it was "A Pig", even under the light fuel loads they were using!)

Which sector did Button lose most of the 7 seconds, surely you are not claiming he lost it evenly across the track! If so where then?

I am not an expert and have never driven the course either in a car or on a game console. But even if you are a touring car champion in disguise I would then have to ask how your opinions can differ so greatly from my associate who is a Bathurst winner, So at this stage I can just ignore your comments and trust my associates. ;)
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: Thryleon on March 24, 2016, 11:38:52 AM
If your not using a car that sits so high off the ground, then you could easily lose that time.


The F1's downforces glue them to the track which make them handle much better than a V8.

There are your 7 seconds.

Lowndes would have found it easier driving the F1 car, than a V8 in the same way that a distance runner could run a sprint.

Get the sprinter to run distance and watch them fail.

That doesnt mean either is inferior superior, its simply a matter of what you get used to.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: LP on March 24, 2016, 11:58:41 AM
If your not using a car that sits so high off the ground, then you could easily lose that time.


The F1's downforces glue them to the track which make them handle much better than a V8.

There are your 7 seconds.

Lowndes would have found it easier driving the F1 car, than a V8 in the same way that a distance runner could run a sprint.

Get the sprinter to run distance and watch them fail.

That doesnt mean either is inferior superior, its simply a matter of what you get used to.

So where did the 7s go, if you are claiming down force was an issue it means the straights are out of the consideration, so now those 7s must have been across the top, so that becomes 7s out of what say 50s? It's an even bigger difference, you've made it look even worse for Button! :o

Keep in mind the F1 car they drove was modified to allow running at Bathurst, it was raised, so it had lower down force yet the driver lap times nearly matched. ;)

The sprint / distance analogy is irrelevant.

The people I know were shocked at the timings, they would have had access to splits that are not available in the public 3 sector timings. They were very diplomatic because one of their major sponsors was one of Buttons sponsors and the sponsor had arranged the whole gig.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: kruddler on March 24, 2016, 12:44:50 PM
So where did the 7s go, if you are claiming down force was an issue it means the straights are out of the consideration, so now those 7s must have been across the top, so that becomes 7s out of what say 50s? It's an even bigger difference, you've made it look even worse for Button! :o

Keep in mind the F1 car they drove was modified to allow running at Bathurst, it was raised, so it had lower down force yet the driver lap times nearly matched. ;)

The sprint / distance analogy is irrelevant.

The people I know were shocked at the timings, they would have had access to splits that are not available in the public 3 sector timings. They were very diplomatic because one of their major sponsors was one of Buttons sponsors and the sponsor had arranged the whole gig.

Really? Still struggling with this.

Button drives
1. A V8 car that has next to no downforce compared to anything he has driven over the past 15 years.
2. He drives a MODIFIED F1 car that has less downforce than he is used to.
 - He drives them on a track he has never seen.
 - He drives themon a track that is extremely difficult and extremely unforgiving
Track experience 0/10
Car experience 1/5 (V8) and 3/5 (F1) = 4/10
TOTAL = 4/20

Lowndes drives...
1. His own V8 which he has been driving for 20 years setup to perfection to his liking
2. A MODIFIED F1 car that has more downforce than anything he has ever driven
 - He drives both on a track he has done 1000's of laps on if not 10,000's.
 - He knows every bump and every inch of that track. Where to push, when to hold steady.
Track experience 10/10
Car experience 5/5 and 1/5 = 6/10

TOTAL = 16/20

Where did button lose time? The same place lowndes made up time, top of the mountain....which in this case, includes everything from turn 2 to conrod.

There are blind turns and off camber turns over bumps all with a barrier inches from the tarmac. The toughest conditions for a driver to get up to speed in immediately.

Oh, so you know people who were shocked? Good for you. Perhaps after they sat down and realised that....
a) Button was at an extreme disadvantage compared to Lowndes
b) Button hasn't really got a lot to prove to the rev-heads on the mountain and would just be happy to walk away with his life in tact.

Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: LP on March 24, 2016, 01:57:12 PM
Really? Still struggling with this.

Button drives
1. A V8 car that has next to no downforce compared to anything he has driven over the past 15 years.
2. He drives a MODIFIED F1 car that has less downforce than he is used to.
 - He drives them on a track he has never seen.
 - He drives themon a track that is extremely difficult and extremely unforgiving
Track experience 0/10
Car experience 1/5 (V8) and 3/5 (F1) = 4/10
TOTAL = 4/20

Lowndes drives...
1. His own V8 which he has been driving for 20 years setup to perfection to his liking
2. A MODIFIED F1 car that has more downforce than anything he has ever driven
 - He drives both on a track he has done 1000's of laps on if not 10,000's.
 - He knows every bump and every inch of that track. Where to push, when to hold steady.
Track experience 10/10
Car experience 5/5 and 1/5 = 6/10

TOTAL = 16/20

Where did button lose time? The same place lowndes made up time, top of the mountain....which in this case, includes everything from turn 2 to conrod.

There are blind turns and off camber turns over bumps all with a barrier inches from the tarmac. The toughest conditions for a driver to get up to speed in immediately.

Oh, so you know people who were shocked? Good for you. Perhaps after they sat down and realised that....
a) Button was at an extreme disadvantage compared to Lowndes
b) Button hasn't really got a lot to prove to the rev-heads on the mountain and would just be happy to walk away with his life in tact.

Nah cannot accept it, as I said I use to like watching it but I am just a novice in this regard. But the people I've heard this from are Bathurst winners or former F1 crew, and they have no reason to be questioning Button or any other F1 drivers for that matter. They expected a difference but not 7s! This Bathurst stuff all happened in a year when Button was 2nd, he was at the top of his game with McLaren-Mercedes.

All those other 4/20, 16/20 rankings you post are meaningless, plus even if they were useful you have cherry picked worst case data. I suppose that idea comes from those console games you play, I've seen my children adjusting car parameters in Super Mario Bros Racing just like that, were the kids give themselves a nuclear weapon and their opponent a spud gun!. But those rankings are made up they are not real!

I appreciate you might be defending a hero, but their abilities are only judged relative to each other, I think that is why Seb-the-Breaker and Alonso stood out for so long. When all things are equal those two are just that much better than the rest. Seb would drive the hardware to it's limit and if it broke it wasn't his fault. Alonso on the other hand is pure silk and cars go faster when he is in them, he looks to me to be the only current driver who might match up with a Lauder or Senna.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: kruddler on March 24, 2016, 02:17:38 PM
You don't have to accept it. Doesn't make it wrong because you don't though.

Point i was making with the numbers is that being familiar with the track is as important as being familiar with the car. Especially at a place like Bathurst.

You are a self confessed novice. So when you talk about settings on mario kart i think novice is an overestimation.

There is a reason why F1 drivers do countless hours in a simulator. Playing those 'video games' to learn a track is a very helpful tool that can not be underestimated. These things are worth millions for a reason.
However, despite that, more than a couple of F1 drivers have openly said they have learned new tracks from the PS3/PS4 before arriving at a new circuit that has just been built.

Why do footy players practice a game plan? Why can't they simply study it on paper and execute it on game day?
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: LP on March 24, 2016, 02:24:13 PM
You don't have to accept it. Doesn't make it wrong because you don't though.

Point i was making with the numbers is that being familiar with the track is as important as being familiar with the car. Especially at a place like Bathurst.

You are a self confessed novice. So when you talk about settings on mario kart i think novice is an overestimation.

There is a reason why F1 drivers do countless hours in a simulator. Playing those 'video games' to learn a track is a very helpful tool that can not be underestimated. These things are worth millions for a reason.
However, despite that, more than a couple of F1 drivers have openly said they have learned new tracks from the PS3/PS4 before arriving at a new circuit that has just been built.

Why do footy players practice a game plan? Why can't they simply study it on paper and execute it on game day?

True learning the new track is important.

Are you claiming Lowndes cannot drive an open wheeler on an empty track that he knows well?

Both drivers, that is both, smashed the Bathurst Lap record in the F1 within 0.3s of each other, while Button almost failed to qualify in the V8!

BTW, I've just checked with my associate. He tells me Button actually set the whole event up for Vodaphone and is a keen follower of Bathurst. He was going like a bat out of hell to beat Lowndes, he just wasn't quick enough!
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: kruddler on March 24, 2016, 02:44:12 PM
True learning the new track is important.

Are you claiming Lowndes cannot drive an open wheeler on an empty track that he knows well?

Both drivers, that is both, smashed the Bathurst Lap record in the F1 within 0.3s of each other, while Button almost failed to qualify in the V8!

BTW, I've just checked with my associate. He tells me Button actually set the whole event up for Vodaphone and is a keen follower of Bathurst. He was going like a bat out of hell to beat Lowndes, he just wasn't quick enough!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5Zeou2lxZI

Yes, button did know of the track in the above video.

Has he driven on it before? No.

He wasn't quick enough. No $hit. I've told you why that is the case!

What he did say in that video is that usually he can get a track within a few laps, but a track like this he needs at least half a day.
Oh, thats like exactly what i was saying.
Bathurst is simply a complete b!tch of a track to drive on. You need time to learn how to drive on it. He never had it. Lowndes did.

Quote
Are you claiming Lowndes cannot drive an open wheeler on an empty track that he knows well?
No, i have never suggested anything even remotely close to this.

I've met Craig Lowndes before, had a chat and got his autograph.
I've actually worked briefly with his brother.
I've got more respect for Lowndes than just about any other V8 driver in history.
This has got nothing to do with Lowndes.

I have no particularly affinity to Button.
It is not about him either.

The fact Lowndes could actually drive the thing to begin with is amazing.
The fact Button had the balls to go as fast as he did as soon as he did in both cars in extremely courageous.

The simple fact is, it is NOT a level playing field.

1 guy has his favourite car completely setup for his favourite track
1 guy has a car similar to his own but has never driven on the track before.
Swap and you still get
1 guy in a car that handles better than any car he's ever driven, on his favourite track.
1 guy in a car that handles worse than any car he's ever driven, on a track he's never driven before.

Do the same thing on a track they are equally adept at, say Albert Park, and it will be more of a level playing field.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: LP on March 24, 2016, 02:58:14 PM
Kruddler, it's the magnitude of the difference that is important not the fact that there was a difference. As I understand it, really only 1/3 of the track is the important part, and in that 1/3 Button lost 7s. It cannot be shyness from Button, he drives at Monaco as you have pointed out which is as tight and as scary as any circuit they will ever encounter!

Anyway, you cannot change my opinions as they are formed from listening to industry insiders talk about it. And I am not qualified to argue the intricate details, I do not know them and I am not even sure they are publicly available. The figures released were through the event sponsor and are listed as unofficial. All I know is people involved with the teams and racing at the time had their media face on and were "Very Diplomatic" about the situation.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: kruddler on March 24, 2016, 04:43:53 PM
Kruddler, it's the magnitude of the difference that is important not the fact that there was a difference. As I understand it, really only 1/3 of the track is the important part, and in that 1/3 Button lost 7s. It cannot be shyness from Button, he drives at Monaco as you have pointed out which is as tight and as scary as any circuit they will ever encounter!

Anyway, you cannot change my opinions as they are formed from listening to industry insiders talk about it. And I am not qualified to argue the intricate details, I do not know them and I am not even sure they are publicly available. The figures released were through the event sponsor and are listed as unofficial. All I know is people involved with the teams and racing at the time had their media face on and were "Very Diplomatic" about the situation.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/Mount_Panorama_Circuit_Map_Overview.PNG)

Turn 2 to turn 18 is your 1/3.
Clear to see that there is SFA in the other 2/3's.

You call the difference 'shyness'?

Here is why Button might have some 'shyness'
(http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/external?url=http%3A%2F%2Fvideomam.news.com.au.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fgenerated%2Fprod%2F10%2F10%2F2015%2F162671%2Fimage1024x768.jpg%3Fcount%3D1&width=650&api_key=kq7wnrk4eun47vz9c5xuj3mc)

Again, you learn the track before you push to the extreme. If you get something wrong, the above occurs.

You say button isn't shy around Monaco? No $hit....because he knows the track....which is why i said put lowndes around there given the same conditions and you won't see a 7s gap unless it's the other way.

So, your mates were suprised. Bully for them.
IF this magical times you speak of are correct, it is not surprising to me and are easily explainable as i've discussed. You don't know any better and simply listen to your mate. Good for you. Pass the above info onto them and see what they have to say about it
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: LP on May 29, 2016, 10:07:58 PM
All we need for a perfect weekend is a Ricciardo win!

I think he is quite good in the wet, so he has a great chance if all goes well.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 29, 2016, 10:21:10 PM
All we need for a perfect weekend is a Ricciardo win!

I think he is quite good in the wet, so he has a great chance if all goes well.
Yep. My Fantasy Footy Team won also so yes Ricca wins the F1 and I'm happy. Would have also liked Chavez to win the Giro D'Italia for Orica Green Edge but that wasnt to be.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: LP on May 29, 2016, 10:57:27 PM
Aw FFS RBR what were you thinking?
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 29, 2016, 11:03:47 PM
Aw FFS RBR what were you thinking?
Terrible. But he seems quicker than Lewis, should get passed.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: kruddler on May 30, 2016, 06:44:16 PM
All we need for a perfect weekend is a Ricciardo win!

I think he is quite good in the wet, so he has a great chance if all goes well.

You had to jinx it!
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: LP on July 04, 2016, 08:10:13 AM
Well, just to ensure the world is left without any doubt, Lewis Hamilton has proven himself to be a complete and utter ar5ewipe!

Is he the Monty Burns of F1?

(https://puzzledpagan.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/061.jpg?w=1000)
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 04, 2016, 11:59:19 AM
Well, just to ensure the world is left without any doubt, Lewis Hamilton has proven himself to be a complete and utter ar5ewipe!

Is he the Monty Burns of F1?

(https://puzzledpagan.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/061.jpg?w=1000)
I thought when I first saw it, the crash was 100% Rosbergs fault. Just read now Rosberg has been handed penalty for the causing the incident so there you go. He seems to panic and do stupid stuff every time Hamilton attacks him.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: LP on July 04, 2016, 12:05:53 PM
I thought when I first saw it, the crash was 100% Rosbergs fault. Just read now Rosberg has been handed penalty for the causing the incident so there you go. He seems to panic and do stupid stuff every time Hamilton attacks him.

Just shows you there is politics in F1 as well.

The ten of thousands of fans booing Hamilton won't be appeased by a quick fix, I'd suggest that decision is more about patching up the appearance of the sport than getting it's ethics sorted out.

Just in time for the British GP! ;)
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: kruddler on July 04, 2016, 07:57:05 PM
Well, just to ensure the world is left without any doubt, Lewis Hamilton has proven himself to be a complete and utter ar5ewipe!

Is he the Monty Burns of F1?

(https://puzzledpagan.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/061.jpg?w=1000)

What did Lewis do wrong?

Just got through watching the race and i agree with Martin that it was 100% rosebergs fault.....well....part of which was his brakes failing him, but that has nothing to do with Hamilton who had no way of knowing this as the team said themselves that they couldn't tell the drivers.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: LP on November 28, 2016, 10:15:13 AM
What did Lewis do wrong?

Hamilton again proves himself to be an ar5ewipe!

Thankfully he didn't cause an incident in trying to back up Rosberg into the field.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: kruddler on November 28, 2016, 07:48:13 PM
Hamilton again proves himself to be an ar5ewipe!

Thankfully he didn't cause an incident in trying to back up Rosberg into the field.

Not sure why you chose to bring up that quote in isolation.

FWIW, i don't like Lewis. But in that instance, (whatever it was i can't recall now) i didn't think he was at fault.

I don't agree with what Lewis did, but i can understand why he did it.

Either...
a) Help your teammate and take out all hope of winning the championship for yourself.
b) Force your teammate to work for the championship by backing him up. If he's good enough, he wins. If not, you win.

Not a good position to be in.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: Gointocarlton on November 28, 2016, 08:41:15 PM
This morning I woke up with a dilema, deciding who is the worst formula 1 world champ in history:
A: D Hill
B: J Button
C: N Rosberg

I think I'm leaning towards C
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: kruddler on November 28, 2016, 08:47:07 PM
This morning I woke up with a dilema, deciding who is the worst formula 1 world champ in history:
A: D Hill
B: J Button
C: N Rosberg

I think I'm leaning towards C
Lock in 'a' eddie.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: Gointocarlton on December 03, 2016, 05:01:58 PM
Rosberg retires, weak as p!$$. Couldn't hack being Lewis's b!tch any longer. Take the trophy and run!!!
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: cookie2 on December 03, 2016, 05:24:08 PM
This morning I woke up with a dilema, deciding who is the worst formula 1 world champ in history:
A: D Hill
B: J Button
C: N Rosberg

I think I'm leaning towards C

James Hunt would be up there, in his early years especially. (Hunt the Shunt!)
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: Gointocarlton on December 03, 2016, 07:01:53 PM
James Hunt would be up there, in his early years especially. (Hunt the Shunt!)
Yes but the thing with Hunt is that he epitomised the playboy racing car driver. Above that, he was a awfully talented and fast F1 driver. For these reasons, I wouldnt put him in the same class as the others.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: cookie2 on December 03, 2016, 07:20:39 PM
Yes but the thing with Hunt is that he epitomised the playboy racing car driver. Above that, he was a awfully talented and fast F1 driver. For these reasons, I wouldnt put him in the same class as the others.

I don't think some of the guys he took out in races would altogether agree with you GTC. He did get better as time went on but he was looked upon as a bit of a prat in his early years, AFAICR.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: LP on December 04, 2016, 04:51:21 PM
Rosberg retires, weak as p!$$. Couldn't hack being Lewis's b!tch any longer. Take the trophy and run!!!

Geez GTC, did you back him to go back-to-back or something?

The real controversy is that Hamilton gets away with being an ar5ewipe penalty free!

As for worst driver, Villeneuve gets my vote, some people are just dead lucky at the misfortunes of those around them! That result would have been equivalent to Grosjean winning 2016.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: Gointocarlton on December 05, 2016, 01:07:35 PM
Geez GTC, did you back him to go back-to-back or something?

The real controversy is that Hamilton gets away with being an ar5ewipe penalty free!

As for worst driver, Villeneuve gets my vote, some people are just dead lucky at the misfortunes of those around them! That result would have been equivalent to Grosjean winning 2016.
Its funny you know, I reckon Nico is the ass whipe, not Hamilton. But there you go, different horses for different courses. I really enjoyed Lewis owning Nico for all these years. I guess Nico didnt enjoy it as much ;D JV may have been lucky but was also blindingly fast in a race car. Hamilton is the same, very fast and very consistent. I honestly hope Ferrari feck Vettel off to Merc and get Hamilton as I am a massive fan of Lewis. Would also like to see Baby Schuey at Ferrari but I fear Merc will nab him as early as next year (albeit to lock him away in their stable).
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: LP on December 05, 2016, 01:31:37 PM
Its funny you know, I reckon Nico is the ass whipe, not Hamilton. But there you go, different horses for different courses. I really enjoyed Lewis owning Nico for all these years. I guess Nico didnt enjoy it as much ;D JV may have been lucky but was also blindingly fast in a race car. Hamilton is the same, very fast and very consistent. I honestly hope Ferrari feck Vettel off to Merc and get Hamilton as I am a massive fan of Lewis. Would also like to see Baby Schuey at Ferrari but I fear Merc will nab him as early as next year (albeit to lock him away in their stable).

The rumors are Hamilton remains on a knife edge and Ricciardo is in Mercedes sights.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: LP on December 15, 2017, 02:55:49 PM
Bernie Ecclestone gone so F1 moves to ban grid tarts, I suppose they couldn't stop his daughters attending while he was still CEO, but they've found a way now!

Sorry, The Ashes has me in a foul mood!
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: Gointocarlton on December 15, 2017, 04:04:28 PM
Bernie Ecclestone gone so F1 moves to ban grid tarts, I suppose they couldn't stop his daughters attending while he was still CEO, but they've found a way now!

Sorry, The Ashes has me in a foul mood!
More PC rubbish. Lots of female folk follow F1 so I guess they feel they need to show they are eliminating the sexism side of the sport. I know loads of woman who follow F1. They love the handsome young men in fast cars dont you worry about that.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: LP on December 15, 2017, 05:17:31 PM
They love the handsome young men in fast cars, with heavy wallets, dont you worry about that.

But we mustn't talk about that! ;)
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: DJC on December 15, 2017, 07:15:55 PM
Bernie Ecclestone gone so F1 moves to ban grid tarts, I suppose they couldn't stop his daughters attending while he was still CEO, but they've found a way now!

Sorry, The Ashes has me in a foul mood!

I thought that was a typo LP and grid starts were to be banned.  I had visions of drivers sprinting to their cars as they did way back when.  I'm not a big fan of motor racing but I have spent many hours at speedways, Calder Park, Sandown and throwing up while trying to navigate in a Torana XU1 rally car.  While I don't mind admiring well put together folk, I'd rather see drivers busting their gut to get an advantage than superfluous folk parading around the race cars.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: LP on June 13, 2018, 10:33:03 AM
Brundle makes some sense, the AFL should take note about the effects of medaling with the rules and contrived competition.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/motor-sport/formula-one/martin-brundle-reflects-on-the-canadian-gp-and-what-we-can-expect-from-the-rest-of-2018/news-story/684db8cadf7e4357842be8bd2396ea0c
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: LP on June 25, 2018, 02:23:43 PM
Seb "The Breaker" Vettel hard at it again over the weekend, when he retires from F1 he should start a wrecking business!
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: LP on August 04, 2018, 10:45:16 AM
Good move by Ricciardo, he'll get a much fairer run now and hopefully a car to match.

Verstappen has infected Red Bull with his Euro dollars, Euro F1 inbreeding makes Tasmania look liberated!
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: Gointocarlton on August 04, 2018, 01:18:16 PM
Good move by Ricciardo, he'll get a much fairer run now and hopefully a car to match.

Verstappen has infected Red Bull with his Euro dollars, Euro F1 inbreeding makes Tasmania look liberated!
I would have thought he would have ended up at McLaren.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: kruddler on August 04, 2018, 02:05:56 PM
I would have thought he would have ended up at McLaren.

If 2 teams have the same engine, always go with the manufacturer team as they will get preferential treatment.

The renault team is the next best behind the big 3 in terms of results this season, despite not having a driver the calibre of Alonso in their car.

Good move IMO.

Its always said that its better to be the #1 driver in the #2 team, than the #2 driver in the #1 team.
Using that logic with the knowledge that Verstappen will get preferential treatment sooner or later at Red Bull, he would either be behind Hamilton, Vettel or Verstappen in the big 3, better off being the #1 in the 4th team.

I wonder if he can drag anyone along with him....Horner? Newey?
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: Gointocarlton on August 04, 2018, 02:19:43 PM
If 2 teams have the same engine, always go with the manufacturer team as they will get preferential treatment.

The renault team is the next best behind the big 3 in terms of results this season, despite not having a driver the calibre of Alonso in their car.

Good move IMO.

Its always said that its better to be the #1 driver in the #2 team, than the #2 driver in the #1 team.
Using that logic with the knowledge that Verstappen will get preferential treatment sooner or later at Red Bull, he would either be behind Hamilton, Vettel or Verstappen in the big 3, better off being the #1 in the 4th team.

I wonder if he can drag anyone along with him....Horner? Newey?
I agree it was a smart choice, just thought he would choose McLaren.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: Thryleon on August 04, 2018, 02:38:20 PM
Yep.  Schumacher won his first championship in a benneton Renault then got signed by Ferrari.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: LP on November 12, 2018, 04:36:55 PM
Ricciardo better off out of Red Bull with feckwits like Verstappen in the line up!

https://www.youtube.com/v/G2zfiiFSdMg
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: Sexybronco on November 12, 2018, 08:42:09 PM
Ricciardo better off out of Red Bull with feckwits like Verstappen in the line up!

https://www.youtube.com/v/G2zfiiFSdMg
Not a fan of Verstappen but liked his reaction and post race interview. F1 is a ruthless cut throat business and he is as ruthless and bloody minded as they get, his decision not to let Ocon through may have been questionable but he is 100% clear on where he wants to be, a lot like Schuey, Senna and many others.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: malo on November 13, 2018, 08:20:23 AM
Not a fan of Verstappen but liked his reaction and post race interview. F1 is a ruthless cut throat business and he is as ruthless and bloody minded as they get, his decision not to let Ocon through may have been questionable but he is 100% clear on where he wants to be, a lot like Schuey, Senna and many others.

Really ?  I thought he came across as a petulant, entitled little sh1t......which has been my take on him from the get go.

Maybe he'll mature one day.....but as someone who's followed motor racing for most of 40 years....and grew up listening to my Dad tell stories of watching the likes of Jim Clark, Jack Brabham, Graeme Hill, Bruce McLaren etc. racing around country roads in Northern Tassie.......the current f1 drivers for the most part leave me completely cold.

Maybe it's generational thing....but most of them just have no sort of engaging personality whatsoever.  Riccardo excepted.

Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: cookie2 on November 13, 2018, 09:03:35 AM
I remember Jim Clark especially. He was a very technically correct and precise driver, not flashy but very quick. I read an article by some motoring journalist once where he was taken around one of the European circuits by Jim Clark in a sports car - Spa I think it was. He stated that it was like being out on a very fast country drive but it was completely under control at all times and he felt extremely safe and relaxed in the passenger seat. Clark himself was very relaxed and unruffled. When they had finished a timekeeper informed them that they had in fact broken the lap record for the vehicle class.
The danger was always there in those days though and Clark actually came unstuck and was killed in a fairly minor race in Germany. Some say it was driver error others that it was a tyre problem. Nevertheless, a great driver.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: Sexybronco on November 13, 2018, 09:14:03 AM
Really ?  I thought he came across as a petulant, entitled little sh1t......which has been my take on him from the get go.

Maybe he'll mature one day.....but as someone who's followed motor racing for most of 40 years....and grew up listening to my Dad tell stories of watching the likes of Jim Clark, Jack Brabham, Graeme Hill, Bruce McLaren etc. racing around country roads in Northern Tassie.......the current f1 drivers for the most part leave me completely cold.

Maybe it's generational thing....but most of them just have no sort of engaging personality whatsoever.  Riccardo excepted.
As I said I'm not a fan but boy he has a ruthless streak.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: LP on November 13, 2018, 11:05:59 AM
Really ?  I thought he came across as a petulant, entitled little sh1t......which has been my take on him from the get go.

Maybe he'll mature one day.....

In F1 that could be if he survives that long, it's not meant to be a demolition derby!

..............but as someone who's followed motor racing for most of 40 years....and grew up listening to my Dad tell stories of watching the likes of Jim Clark, Jack Brabham, Graeme Hill, Bruce McLaren etc. racing around country roads in Northern Tassie.......the current f1 drivers for the most part leave me completely cold.

Maybe it's generational thing....but most of them just have no sort of engaging personality whatsoever.  Riccardo excepted.

It's not generational, F1 teams learn little from blokes like Verstappen, Hamilton and Vettel, they are technical leeches and breakers. The guys doing the grunt work, the ones taking the team forward are guys like Alonso, Raikonnen and Ricciardo. They are the precision drivers of the sport, the ones the engineers turn to when they want reliable data and diagnosis.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: kruddler on November 13, 2018, 05:20:06 PM
I remember Jim Clark especially. He was a very technically correct and precise driver, not flashy but very quick. I read an article by some motoring journalist once where he was taken around one of the European circuits by Jim Clark in a sports car - Spa I think it was. He stated that it was like being out on a very fast country drive but it was completely under control at all times and he felt extremely safe and relaxed in the passenger seat. Clark himself was very relaxed and unruffled. When they had finished a timekeeper informed them that they had in fact broken the lap record for the vehicle class.
The danger was always there in those days though and Clark actually came unstuck and was killed in a fairly minor race in Germany. Some say it was driver error others that it was a tyre problem. Nevertheless, a great driver.

What are your thoughts on Michael Schumacher Cookie?

A lot of people forget what he was like as a driver because his car was so good for a lot of his career. Most memories of him are winning races with a leg up in the air.

However, when push came to shove, he was as aggressive as anyone and used to spread his elbows and force others to decide if they were ready to have a crash or not.

Of course he had the respect that meant people jumped out of his way, but a saint behind the wheel he was not.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: cookie2 on November 13, 2018, 06:08:31 PM
What are your thoughts on Michael Schumacher Cookie?

A lot of people forget what he was like as a driver because his car was so good for a lot of his career. Most memories of him are winning races with a leg up in the air.

However, when push came to shove, he was as aggressive as anyone and used to spread his elbows and force others to decide if they were ready to have a crash or not.

Of course he had the respect that meant people jumped out of his way, but a saint behind the wheel he was not.

Obviously a very hard charger K, and you can't deny his success. However, not my favourite I'm afraid. I was brought up in the era of more gentlemanly behaviour and the likes of Shumacher don't appeal. Another "whatever it takes" merchant. He was a bully,  Jim Clark was a tough competitor but always a gent iirc. I guess it's a generational thing. Rose tinted specs may also be in play!  ;)


Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: Gointocarlton on November 13, 2018, 07:55:14 PM
Really ? I thought he came across as a petulant, entitled little sh1t......which has been my take on him from the get go.

Maybe he'll mature one day.....but as someone who's followed motor racing for most of 40 years....and grew up listening to my Dad tell stories of watching the likes of Jim Clark, Jack Brabham, Graeme Hill, Bruce McLaren etc. racing around country roads in Northern Tassie.......the current f1 drivers for the most part leave me completely cold.

Maybe it's generational thing....but most of them just have no sort of engaging personality whatsoever.  Riccardo excepted.
Agree 100% with the bold bit. FWIW, I dont like Ricciardo much either. He started off as your typical humble aussie sportsman in a world of fuel injected egos. He has quickly adapted and become one of them. For a bloke who has achieved two tenths of fark all (in terms of poles, wins and championships), he should get back to basics and STFU with the attitude. The champion drivers get down and dirty and help the team figure out problems with the car. Schumacher went to a dog of a team riddled with issues and worked his ass off to help get Ferrari back up to the top of the tree. Ricciardo chooses to sook up when the car breaks down and its why he'll never win a championship or be considered one of the all time greats.
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: LP on February 11, 2019, 11:16:56 AM
Interesting to read Ricciardo's comments about being snubbed by Ferrari and Mercedes.

Ricciardo himself leaves it unstated, but it's pretty clear to F1 fans that this is more likely to be about the influence of the incumbents in those teams and not so much the choice of other drivers over Ricciardo.

Why would Vettel or Hamilton want any serious challenger when they can comfortably remain entrenched with a B-Grade team-mate, and why would those teams risk insulting those incumbents who bring in the big dollars?

In F1, money is the root of all evil!
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: DJC on February 13, 2019, 07:42:35 PM
I recently saw an interesting F1 trivia item.

The South African army has a remote control mine detection vehicle that uses wheels and tyres left over from the South African Grand Prix.  Apparently, the wide, smooth tyres distribute the weight of the vehicle so that it doesnít detonate mines or IEDs.

Can you imagine our armed forces, or those of our allies, making use of second hand kit, let alone in such an innovative way?

Thatís about the extent of my interest in F1 🙂
Title: Re: Formula 1
Post by: LP on February 14, 2019, 08:32:00 AM
I recently saw an interesting F1 trivia item.

The South African army has a remote control mine detection vehicle that uses wheels and tyres left over from the South African Grand Prix.  Apparently, the wide, smooth tyres distribute the weight of the vehicle so that it doesnít detonate mines or IEDs.

Can you imagine our armed forces, or those of our allies, making use of second hand kit, let alone in such an innovative way?

Thatís about the extent of my interest in F1 🙂

I suspect it's not just the rubber but the carbon fibre rims, many modern IEDs targetting vehicles require both pressure and magnetic, they won't go off if your neighbours donkey steps on them! F1 would be a good source of cheap hardware for the researchers, because they make them so light a as a result relatively fragile they basically throw away the rims after a race due to the risk of fatigue failure.

I've worked in a group that did some of the R&D with Deakin Uni for a Geelong company called Carbon Evolution, and I know they have blast tested ruggidised versions for light transport vehicles like Troupies and the Hawkei / Bushmaster / Marauder type armoured trucks. You can read a bit here, http://www.carbonrev.com/motorsports