The problem with that scenario is that Docherty isn't a serial dissenter and Vossy would have his guts for garters if he gave away a goal like that.
The reason Coniglio's venomous dissent is still newsworthy is that most commentators and at least 75% of football supporters hate it when we win.
Yep As if we're going to hear anything other than ...'GWS wuz robbed" from opposition supporters.
It's hard to know how we would have felt had the shoe was on the other foot. Right now, a couple of days later, I'm thinking some of us would probably have been angry with the player, but that's not in the emotion of the moment. At the time it may very well have been anger at the umpire.
What I do know is that if a Carlton player is pinged for dissent in the next game he won't get much sympathy. They're all on notice.
Imagine we got penalised against the Bombers and it was Sam Docherty who asked the question which cost us the game. Then the AFL and Essendon supporters were smearing him calling him a serial whinger. Imagine this place, Imagine our club's response, Imagine the next time we played them.
The AFL are just lucky the Giants have no fans.
My wife's cousin is a passionate GWS supporter. Attends every game at home and often travels. They have a small core of strong supporters. She sent us a message straight after the game. "Congratulations to the Blues on the win" No mention at all of the dissent free kick.
Like Paul mentioned Coniglio is more respectful of the umpires than 90% of the fans in the grounds. When I was a kid I used to sit in the Carlton Social club where the umpires used to walk off.
So accepting that the AFL want to set a standard of respect, what's the solution. If you don't agree with the current practice (which I agree is a little dodgy given the inconsistency of interpretation and application) what do you guys see as the answer.
So the question is...if what Coniglio did isn't dissent? If it's not worth a penalty? What does constitute dissent?
Are we prepared to let these actions become the standard. If there's no penalty they will be more frequent because some players are obviously disciplining themselves not to react. If they're the standard at senior level how will that translate to junior football.
I reckon there is probably a real desire from the club to see this project successful. They've had a review so they will have to be seen to having achieved some progress from this exercise Buck will be the face of this. but you can bet he'll be given heaps of support.
I suspect this thread would look a lot different if that free and then the result went the other way.
Yep Because then some of us would be making emotive responses based on losing the game, but even then I'd bet there would be a few critical of the player.
Whitfield questioned the umpire over the dissent free, why didn't we get another kick?
Here's where it gets problematic. It's been decided that the AFL wants to stamp out umpire dissent. If it's open slather at senior level and there is no penalty then there are implications for lower leagues.
But how much is too much? The AFL have basically put it back on the umpire to determine if they feel the dissent has gone too far.
Now in the case on the weekend. Coniglio has put himself in a position where he has obviously offended the umpire. The umpire's response to Whitfield..."it wasn't you it was Coniglio" is an indication he didn't feel the same degree of offense by Whitfield's actions.
Quote
"It's not what he said – it wasn't you (Whitfield), it was Steve Coniglio," he said.
"There was a decision not paid, so the ball had gone through (for a behind) and he (Coniglio) has gone, 'How is that not a free kick?' – with his arm out."
Whitfield replied: "And that's worth another goal?".
"That's dissent," Fleer said."
So it will be a brave (and foolish) player who disputes an umpires call this weekend. It's really a case of they'll have to double down...unless they're told on the quiet to be a little lenient.
But it's a bit like being half pregnant. How much is too offensive? Is it fair to leave it to an umpire who just mightn't like the player who gives too much lip? Can we afford to let it run open slather with the implications for junior league.
I can see the point of those arguing against the severity of the penalty on a team. I kind of like the idea of putting it back on the individual. No free, just report them and give them a fine. It will be equally as effective in modifying behaviour and won't impcat on the match results.
Appealing for a free kick, seeking clarification of a mark, are not disputing an umpire's decision. Asking "How is that not a free kick?" is a clear indication the player thinks the umpire got it wrong.
Can of worms You cant have umpires discriminating on the basis of personality. They would have little idea of the majority of players personalities. If Coniglio whinges all day, that should count against him rather than for him in the judgement.
On the other hand.... Umpires interpret passages of play differently all the time. One umpire will pay a free when another will call play on. So that's just part of the game.
If it's determined there was 'little wrong' with Coniglio's actions then it's a free for all for questioning umpires decsions all over the field. That then floats down to junior football.
You can't have one rule for 10 metres from goal an another for 70 metres from goal.
The AFL have set themselves on a course of action to stop dissent. Perhaps the most effective way to fast track that is through events such as last weekend where the decision has strongly impacted the result. A strict follow-up this weekend will reinforce that. I suspect they'll go hard. Only a complete dill will be questioning an umpire's decision in round 4.
Player (Club) 10 Patrick Cripps (CARL) 8 Nicholas Newman (CARL) 4 Sam Docherty (CARL) 3 Adam Cerra (CARL) 2 Sam Taylor (GWS) 2 Josh Kelly (GWS) 1 Jack Buckley (GWS)
You know...it'll be interesting on Brownlow night if Newman's efforts are recognised. I suspect they won't
Early season, their timing and other positioning aspects might be a bit rusty. I'm sure that is not part of a forward coach's plan. Certainly wasn't last year. Alot of things aren't at their best yet, fair way from it, but they are winning. A big change.
We actually started better last year. 3-0 after three rounds and a percentage of 115% It was round 4 that brought us undone against the Gold Coast. But we won five of the next six. It was the form after the bye that was erratic.
