Interesting hearing Luke Beveridge after the Geelong game. He said that as coaches, you either mold the game style to the players you have, or you establish a game style that you know will be successful, and you ask everyone to come up to that. He stated he's always tried the latter. It's similar to the old adage of designing / building a house down to a budget, or up to a standard.
You reckon anyone at Carlton has the patience to wait for a coach to get all the pieces he requires?
The Sack Voss crowd is proof that we don't.
It takes years to turn over a list and get the players you wanted, up to AFL level. We sack coaches before we get to that level. Then the cycle repeats. Its why we need to get the list management side of things right before we worry about who gets to coach them. The current mob just fill the list with small forwards and says 'good luck with that' and gets a pat on the back in the process.
The only one spinning it is the bloke who refuses to acknowledge that the success of a football team is spread across 100 blokes, not 1.
Maybe, but it starts with the coach. You can have everything else in place, but if the coach isn't doing the job then it won't work. If the end it is all about what happens on the field and right now it is 11 wins from the last 38. If that isn't happening but nothing is happening. Not disagreeing totally with you, you have some points, but that's the bottom line. He has failed to evolve with the changing game, which is pretty obvious.
You can have issues with a crap club generally, which I think beat Teague, and Malthouse made mention of that not long ago in his time here, but sometimes coaching stands out more, as it has here and did going back to Bolton. Have to be aware of which is the greater over-riding issue. Vossy is basically done here. 11 from 38 says so.
Flip the logic around.
You can have the best coach in the land, but if the blokes around him are not doing their job it won't work.
Yes, Voss has stuck with the contested ball game plan. Why is that? Do we have a bunch of fast, elite ball user, outside runners on our list? Please point them out if you do because i can't see them. So IF he tried to do anything else, then we would be FURTHER behind on the win/loss ledger. We simply don't have the cattle to do anything else.
Its been 2 years and we still struggle for midfield forward connection and conversion. Its because we have a list full of blokes who can't kick. The guys we have up forward are not good enough to overcome this. We HAD Charlie, who helped. Even TDK could take a mark out of nowhere and help that area out. Now we've got very little marking talent up forward, and nothing coming through, and we have addressed our biggest issue in the midfield anywhere near a point where we can change our style.
So what do you want Voss to do?
What would Chris Fagan do with this team? Roos, Longmire, Hardwick, Clarkson.....anyone? We play the way we do because of the players we have. We struggle to turn things around on match day because the players we have. We struggle to kick through the big sticks, because of the players we have.
To paraphrase the old Ronald Dale.... You give me players, and i'll shutup!
Jimbo, how many results would be turned simply by kicking straighter at goal? Vossy isnt kicking the ball, nor is he picking the guys who is kicking the ball.
Suddenly you see how wins and losses is more than just the coach. Past history should tell you that changing the coach hasnt solved our problems, so why do you think this is any different?
In fact his results are in line with the strength of the list we have.
I predicted a down year and told everybody to prepare for some poor results. After the chicken little / sky is falling jibes stopped, even my expectations have been let down. None pf our recruits have loved up to expectations and none cone close tp covering what we lost in the off season.
So why is vossy to blame if those things are outside his control?
You can spin it, but no. We are alot better than 11 out of 38. The only result that matters. Times up. Enjoyed the ride for most of 3 years, we appreciate that, but to fall off so much, not hard to work out. 11 from 38 is 11 from 38. Vossy has struggled to evolve with the changing game. At some point the coach stops getting his message through. Happens to most coaches at some stage.
The only one spinning it is the bloke who refuses to acknowledge that the success of a football team is spread across 100 blokes, not 1.
You assume or suspect "he is not resonating", you don't know it to be fact.
Only have to watch football and look at the results. Pretty easy for most to work out. 11 wins from 38 probably tells a story in itself. Take the agenda away and you will see that. In the end it is wins and losses. That's the best story. Can't be argued.
Jimbo, how many results would be turned simply by kicking straighter at goal? Vossy isnt kicking the ball, nor is he picking the guys who is kicking the ball.
Suddenly you see how wins and losses is more than just the coach. Past history should tell you that changing the coach hasnt solved our problems, so why do you think this is any different?
In fact his results are in line with the strength of the list we have.
I predicted a down year and told everybody to prepare for some poor results. After the chicken little / sky is falling jibes stopped, even my expectations have been let down. None pf our recruits have loved up to expectations and none cone close tp covering what we lost in the off season.
So why is vossy to blame if those things are outside his control?
the buck stops with Voss. he is the senior and should have picked this up
and in regards to our past as a guide it has zero relevance to the whether Voss can coach and he cant so should be changed.
it doesnt end there after voss is replaced the whole coaching group needs rejiggijg as a min.
hopefully with new coaching group we will see the true development of players like jagga dean walker (finger crossed). staying with the current set up will yield the same underperforming team year after year after year.
The coaching group were replenished 6 months ago but you keep on burning the witches 👍🏼
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't stop him rolling around in his own crap
What would Harry be worth at the moment on the trade table? He had his issues last year and is not really imposing himself at the moment.
There would be some interest...but I'm not sure it would be what we think he's worth and well short of his Coleman year. Averaged 1.8 goals a game last year Averaging 1.3 goals a game this year
Marquee player for tassie. They have an abunfance of early picks they need to trade and cap space they need to fill. Having a coleman medalist in their team would be good for young players coming through.
I was not at the game so have not seen any of his shots. Harry has his own anxiety with kicking for goals. He is much better from a distance when he can kick through the ball. Since he started kicking round the corner from close distance he seems to of lost confidence in his kicking. It does my head in when I see a player kicking around the corner from close range. When I was a kid the norm was a torp from any distance or angle. One that stands out is twiggy dunn in the GF I think kicking a torp from 50 and it going straight over the umpires head. If anyone can find any stats on his conversion rate say from 0 - 30 and 30 - 50 it would make interesting reading I would say.
I was surprised to see that Harry did not use his usual 'around the corner' technique when kicking for goal from set shots. In some cases the kicks were from the left hand side of the goals so that was understandable but there was one (or two) where he kicked a straight-forward drop punt from position/s where he would have usually kicked 'around the corner'. They were quite straight kicks that didn't miss by much but the fact that he didn't go 'around the corner' suggested that he might have been acting under instructions to not do so.
Yes, the one early on deep in the LH pocket where he simply went a drop punt was odd.
If anything he has 'overcorrected' and trying to kick everything 'too straight'. I can't think of anyone else who would've gone the drop punt from the angle he was on, even if they were right footed. Certainly not for a left footer.
Given that Harry is out, it might be a good time to bring Ison in. Not as a direct replacement, but it'd allow others to shift one up. So Kemp could be Harry and Ison could be Kemp.
Same logic could be used on Moir who we'd likely get more of a return from.
We need to keep checking in with Moir often to see if he 'gets it' yet, because the moment he does, he'll turn games. I'd be going hard on him in the off-season getting his running up a notch. I'd like to see him get to a stage where he could give a chop out in the middle/on a wing and rest forward. We could use his skills further up the ground.
Bit over Kemp and to a lesser extent Harry. I want to try something different , thought Hayward played his best game vs the Pies and worked hard and I'd be wanting same from Moir with Ison my more stay at home forward.
Harry was playing his best game for some time IMO......but its also a pretty low bar.
Harry gets way too many concussons for a bloke 200+.
I can't see him playing out his contract with us. Still has 4.5years left.
Ison is half a foot taller than byrne. Hardly like for like.
Not sure Frankie goes around at his listed 6'0" either, but thats for another day
I'd bring in Ison for Kemp and think about Moir too...both have more talent than most on the list and both can kick straight. Lord, Acres and Hewitt also as ins..
Given that Harry is out, it might be a good time to bring Ison in. Not as a direct replacement, but it'd allow others to shift one up. So Kemp could be Harry and Ison could be Kemp.
Same logic could be used on Moir who we'd likely get more of a return from.
We need to keep checking in with Moir often to see if he 'gets it' yet, because the moment he does, he'll turn games. I'd be going hard on him in the off-season getting his running up a notch. I'd like to see him get to a stage where he could give a chop out in the middle/on a wing and rest forward. We could use his skills further up the ground.
Pitto will always be more susceptable to an opposition ruck who can still jump at the end of the game.
Pitto wasn't the problem. He did his job.
He got more clearances than the other 2 rucks combined (5 vs 4). He got 21 touches vs Cameron 18. He was leading contested possession getter for us with 12, only Daicos with 16 ahead of him. Cripps had 11. He was carltons 4th highest supercoach scorer behind, Williams, Walsh and Newman.
If you want to try and exploit him/us, then you do exactly what collingwood did. Get a 'jumper' against him at the end. Probably helps thats its a relatively new player who he hasn't come across before too.
Thats why you have scouts, Steenes first AFL game had him doing the same stuff, he has been in the system for 4 years at Collingwood so how he plays shouldnt have been a mystery imo. Its not Pittonets fault but after the first Steene to Daicos play there needed to be a change....I thought Young did ok but it was too late by then.
There's a difference between watching tape and banging bodies though. I'm sure we will be better equipped next time they face.
Pitto will always be more susceptable to an opposition ruck who can still jump at the end of the game.
Pitto wasn't the problem. He did his job.
He got more clearances than the other 2 rucks combined (5 vs 4). He got 21 touches vs Cameron 18. He was leading contested possession getter for us with 12, only Daicos with 16 ahead of him. Cripps had 11. He was carltons 4th highest supercoach scorer behind, Williams, Walsh and Newman.
If you want to try and exploit him/us, then you do exactly what collingwood did. Get a 'jumper' against him at the end. Probably helps thats its a relatively new player who he hasn't come across before too.
