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Messages - ElwoodBlues1

1
The Sports Desk / Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Mark Wood done for the series, yet again injured and he should retire from test cricket. Been replaced by Matthew Fisher who has been touring with the English Lions who shadow the test team as a reserves type outfit. Fisher who has the one test wicket is a fairly nondescript  typical English seamer who wont trouble too many Aus batters imo if he does get to play a test or two.
Not to be confused with the young NZ quick of the same name who is a lot quicker and looks promising.
Im tipping Archer will be the next English bowler to pick up an injury and need a rest and while England Im sure will improve via the law of averages and probably win at least one test I think Aus can send Bazball on its way with a 4-1 scoreline.
2
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 4 - 5 on the bench
Quote from: Lods – on
That's the whole point.
I'm sorry these guys are not there.
Fully fit they would be in everybody's best team.
They would enhance our side.
If we were doing this exercise and they were still on the list they get a game in most people's sides.

Why? Because the ground rules Kruddler laid down said they were "fully fit" (even O' Farrell is in the mix and he might not even play a game next year.)

I think some have forgotten the 'ground' rules for this List Management debate, and the key question.
"Higher ladder position in 2025 or 2026"
Some are having difficulty grasping why we won't slide.

That debate question spreads over a number of threads, is ongoing, and also applies here... Will we perform better in 2026 than we did in 2025 given the changes to the list?

And that debate centres around the three main players we have lost, and the players coming in through trade and draft.
Don't think Coleman Charlie 2023, think Charlie 2025.

Charlie's contribution 2023 would be near impossible to cover
Charlie 2025...not so much.
There is every chance they will blossom at their new clubs and regain their best form, but early indications for 2026 are not great with both Jack and Tom missing some significant pre-season. Jack in particular seems to have an ongoing injury issue...and I suspect for some time has had a fair bit on his plate, which may go some way to explaining his decision to move.

Tom has had the distraction of the big money move. Charlie and Jack have had ongoing injury problems, all these impacted on their form the past year.

And that's why if you ask me the question... Will we be better in 2026 than we were at 11th place in 2025?...I'm guessing, yes.
Will we finish higher than we did in 2023...I'm guessing, no....2027 for that target. ;)


So TDK, Charlie and Jack are in fact better players when fully fit than those we have acquired?
Im not thinking what a player did in what particular year or how fit they were last year or the year before, Im selecting on ability and the presumption those players will be fit at some stage in the future if our medical/fitness staff can get their act together.
If we are building a list based around fitness first then Sam Walsh would have to be a candidate to be traded out next season if he is injured again for a long period if thats now a large part of our list management decision making for the future?
If Harry McKay had another mental health episode and took a break would that also place him in the trade basket?...
Are you willing to trade out all our A grade talent on the basis they may never be fully fit and replace them with players with less ability..?
3
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 4 - 5 on the bench
Quote from: Lods – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on

Given TDK, Charlie and Jack were/are now classified as spuds/navy blue infidels and the players we have brought in are vastly superior you wouldnt be able to include the afore mentioned three in your best 23 for next season if they were still on the list and the new recruits were also available?

I don't think anyone is saying these players we lost were 'duds'
They were obviously best 23
All three would probably make most folks selctions.
They'd make mine.

But their 2025 form was sub par, except perhaps for Jack who showed some promise as a KPD....before he was injured ::)
So in determining whether we improve from 2025 to 2026 we don't look at their best, we look at what they gave us in 2025 and that gap, if it exists, isn't that large.

The whole list debate centres around the difference between 2025 and 2026
Whether we finish about the same, 11th, whether we drop...or progress.
Some think we'll slide based on the loss of the three amigos.
Some think we'll stay about the same.
Others see us progressing.

We don't know the future.
In a lot of respects the list won't be a determining factor....it will be a better run with injuries, how the new players gel, no issues like player mental health, no division, a totally committed group... and a big change in luck, which hasn't been our friend the last two years.

Can't see how they make your best team if you and others have said their loss would be negligible in effect and say we have a better improved team without them.
You can't have it both ways...if we are a better team without them why would you pick them in your best 23?
TDK isn't as a good a ruckman as Pittonet, HOk ,or Reidy, JSOS is slow and Injury prone and Charlie isnt productive enough with a poor attitude...that's what I have been reading. Surely they would be VFL players and backup only...
4
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 4 - 5 on the bench
Quote from: Lods – on
Yep
Cripps, McKay Weitering, Walsh, Hewett all duds

Moir, O'Keefe, Smith, Dean....probably won't get a game in this side.
What were we thinking drafting losers like Hayward and Ainsworth to bolster the forward line.
O'Farrell...will struggle to get back...ever!

We're screwed. :D

Thank heavens for Evans. ;)
Given TDK, Charlie and Jack were/are now classified as spuds/navy blue infidels and the players we have brought in are vastly superior you wouldnt be able to include the afore mentioned three in your best 23 for next season if they were still on the list and the new recruits were also available?
5
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Quote from: Lods – on
Quote from: kruddler – on


I'm not doing the one to one thing again, I'm doing out vs in.  4 positions we got worse, 2 positions we got better. I don't know why you guys fight against that so much. Overall team cohesion will magically get better based off of that to create a net win... that's an argument i disagree with.

Charlie before he did his knee may never have reached the heights he did. Charlie in 2025 was cooked. Didn't have a preseason. Played through injury. We refused to drop him and key him recover. A common theme with us.

I don't care if tdk is 2nd ruck at saints, he was first ruck with us. Arguments like that are said to diminish his importance rather than acknowledge his loss.

Playing devils advocate, if all these players are so bad, why did they get record contract/ trade offers? Perhaps it's more about you, than them?

If all the players we got in are so good, who did clubs push them out the door for a discounted price?

What I'm arguing with is that you are looking at the 'best' of these players and arguing what we've lost means we will slip further down the ladder.
But if Tom, Charlie and Jack, had played at that level (their best) for a whole season I'm pretty sure we would have finished better than eleventh.
Even 50-60 goals from Charlie would have made a difference.

TDK is a loss, but it's a loss of a certain type of ruckman and we still have Pittonet who shaded him in ruck work, and O'Keefe (who is a probably a better ruck forward) who will more than likely improve....and Reidy who was behind a couple of pretty good rucks at Freo but played some very good football at the WAFL level, to consider...so net loss for TDK not so much.

So we have to look at their 2025 output when deciding whether or not their loss is as significant as you claim.
We only have to replace their 2025 efforts to maintain our position or do better.

Now that's even before we consider the season losses of Newman, Kemp and Jagga.
Add the loss of O'Farrell when he was just starting to show the goods.
Then consider Harry and his issues...the distraction that was Elijah.

You can't see how we're going to be as good as 11th
I can't see how we're going to be worse.
So best we agree to disgree.
TDKs main value was that of an extra midfielder, those other players don't come close to what he offered around the ground and its essentially why he got offered the big money.
7
The Sports Desk / Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Quote from: DJC – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Neser and Doggett, need the specialist spinner and extra pace/bouncer ability on a flatter track which will help England's flat track bully batsman more.
Bazball might be history by the end of the series along with its architects...

Both unlucky, particularly Neser after his five for.

I don't mind Bazball - both as a concept and a spectacle - but you do need a plan B.
Bazball is an excuse for poor technique and a lack of willingness to grind when necessary with both bat and ball which also indicates poor/lazy application. Throwing the bat at everything vs good line and length bowling works 1/10 times and having a plan B bowling strategy of 6 bouncers an over might work vs hapless teams like the Windies but wont vs the better teams.

8
The Sports Desk / Re: God help me - the Test Cricket thread
Quote from: DJC – on
Comprehensive win as was always the most likely outcome. 

Excellent bowling from Neser in the Poms' second innings and Steve Smith certainly seemed to have an important engagement that he he was keen to get to ASAP.

Pat Cummins will be back for the Adelaide Test and Lyon will probably pass the drinks tray to someone else.  Which two bowlers will miss out?
Neser and Doggett, need the specialist spinner and extra pace/bouncer ability on a flatter track which will help England's flat track bully batsman more.
Bazball might be history by the end of the series along with its architects...
9
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Quote from: DJC – on
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on

As you know I agree with you regarding the list management or lack of..
The argument from the opposing opinions is that the new players as a collective combined with what we have already will be better able to execute the new improved gamestyle which includes better delivery, more variety of forward options and better quicker ball movement.
Sounds great in theory  until you figure out that most of the work will still be done by the same players with the same deficiencies and that the players we recruited won't be the quality prime movers required to initiate the changes required.

But that’s just your rather jaundiced opinion EB.

The players we lost had minimal positive impact on our 2025 fortunes and the players we traded in are a hell of a lot better than you’re willing to admit.  Then there’s a likely generational CHB, a very highly rated “tweener” forward, and a hard nut midfielder who nails his targets.
Dean is a kid who hasn't played a game, yes he can be a great defender in years to come but common sense says he will take time like Weitering took time and he won't fix our main problems which are ball delivery into the forward line and conversion.
You are pinning a lot of hope on Hayward who averages a goal a game and eleven possessions. Best return is 41 goals in a season and that was with a red hot midfield ie Warner, Heeney, Gulden etc giving him the ball...
Ainsworth goes at a goal a game and 15 possessions...handy but not game changing and Hardwick saw fit to let him go and clear some cap space.
Chesser wouldn't get a game in any of the top teams and was chased by one other club ...Essendon...Again 11 possessions a game @40 Games ...
Florent ...dropped by Cox and will play at half back according to Ash Hansen in the Josh Daicos role. Again handy but was a salary cap dump and isn't a dial mover.
Quantity doesn't equal quality and with a coach under pressure trying to change his preferred game style to a more modern game plan it's all going to take time and an influx of A grade kids like Cody Walker, Dean and others to provide real class and we are looking at a proper rebuild to do that not another bandaid season which is what we have to look forward too in 2026.
Keep sitting behind the lady with the big hat and wearing the Navy Blue Shades because it's going to get tougher before it gets better and no amount of PR propaganda from yourself or the club is going to change that unless there is a miracle planned for Ikon Park.

10
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Quote from: kruddler – on
Quote from: Lods – on


That's changing the focus again....you've moved away from the age debate to the talent debate

Average age is pretty meaningless when you're talking in averages only a year or two different.
No its going back to the original point.
Our list got weaker.

The opposition to this justify this by saying we got younger as we were too old.
I'm pointing out relative to the opposition, we got older.
The players we recruited, half of them were older than our average age.
That flies in the face of the arguement that we are rebuilding/rejuvinating and getting younger.
THIS was the justification for destroying our prelim list and the reason we are nosediving.

I'm calling BS on the rejuvination of the list as a viable strategy given we've barely moved the age needle, and done so less than most who are not doing the same thing.

All this falls back to the same question which i can't get a straight answer on.

WHY does everyone have so much faith in the current list management team?
The reasons i've had so far are contradictory at worst, and weak at best.
As you know I agree with you regarding the list management or lack of..
The argument from the opposing opinions is that the new players as a collective combined with what we have already will be better able to execute the new improved gamestyle which includes better delivery, more variety of forward options and better quicker ball movement.
Sounds great in theory  until you figure out that most of the work will still be done by the same players with the same deficiencies and that the players we recruited won't be the quality prime movers required to initiate the changes required.
11
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
I prefer specialist KP talls and not trying to cheat with hybrids who play ruck and forward, or ruckman you try and turn into KP players, we have been there with Hampson, Kreuzer etc and it rarely works. Id rather specialist forwards like Jeremy Cameron, Georgiadies, Hogan, etc and same down back with specialist Key backmen. You get handy dual purpose types like Luke Jackson who can play ruck and contribute while resting down forward but even with Jackson who is a class player its necessary to have specialist key forwards in Voss and Amiss to provide consistency because Jackson down forward wont work every time and its more of a tactical move every now and then to play him there.
14
The Sports Desk / Re: Basketball
Quote from: DJC – on
The World Cup Qualifying series between Australia and New Zealand may not have both countries' best lineups but the results are much closer than I expected.  After a five point win in game 1, Australia won game 2 with a buzzer-beating three point bankshot
Aus were a bit disappointing I thought, had a few players out but struggled on the boards vs the Kiwi bigs and it needed the Hawks Davo Hickey to manufacture a couple of big three's in each game to secure the win.
Keanu Pinder had a good second game and hopefully he returns to Aus and my team the Cairns Taipans next NBL season.
Aus will need their NBA players available to progress vs the better countries as NZ are rated at 25 and Aus at 6 with the USA and Germany the favourites.
15
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments
This in how unsafe Victoria has become: 
For the year ending June 2025, according to the Crime Statistics Agency(https://www.crimestatistics.vic.gov.au/) , there were:

18,482 serious assaults - a 16 per cent increase
7,856 residential aggravated burglaries - a 22 per cent increase
3,828 robberies - a 17 per cent increase
33,018 motor vehicle theft - a 42 per cent increase
86,351 steal from a motor vehicle - a 39 per cent increase
41,667 steal from a retail store - a 28 per cent increase
11,075 prohibited and controlled weapon offences - a 12 per cent increase.
9,663 family violence related serious assaults - a 23% per cent increase.

You add in all the graffiti, unoccupied run down buildings full of squatters, needles everywhere you walk, increases in ambulance staff and nurses getting attacked on the job, drones landing in family members backyards with white packs of powder on board, kids getting murdered on the way home from a basketball game.
The you have the Victorian Government actually cutting funding for Youth Crime Prevention programs and the Youth Support and Advocacy Service (YSAS).
Debt in Victoria continues to grow faster than both the economy and revenue, with government sector gross debt nearing 30 per cent of the state’s economy. Credit rating has gone backwards and the auditor-general said gross debt was forecast to grow to $240 billion by 2028-29, about 202 per cent of operating revenue.
Crime is on the rise and so is the expenditure for victims of crime...Liabilities from redress schemes, and financial assistance for victims of crime grew from $30 million five years ago to $853 million.
Anyone living in Victoria should be concerned where the State is heading....future is bleak and the Crims are winning with the amount of unsolved crimes also increasing.