Swepdon, if you want a leggies, Rocciocelli (sp) WA is having an excellent shield session.
England batting properly except for their horrible get out shots when they ran out of patience looked much more threatening than the first two tests.
AUS team for boxing day - In: Smith, Neser, Murphy. Out: Inglis (for Smith), Cummins (rested), Lyon (inj). Green lucky - too many changes, Usman lucky - boys club means he survives instead of Ingliss. Unlucky again - Webster.
Agree on the Ins and the reasoning. I reckon Bethell will come into the top 6 for England and they may rest Carse for one of of Potts or Fisher who are both more traditional county line and length seam bowlers. McCullum has two years to run on his contract at decent money so it's going to be an expensive decision to sack him. I'd expect a more likely outcome to be that he develops bazball version 2 which will be a throttle back from what we have seen over the past couple of years. Plenty of criticism back in England about the lack of county cricket played by the incumbent test players who play a lot of white ball cricket but don't turn out for the longer game either by choice or by fixturing of short format tournaments either home or overseas. Darren Lehmann who coaches Northants says he hasn't seen a selector or key personnel at any of their games or had a phone call about any of his players. McCullum has been running his own boys club and I reckon that's going to change when England return home..
The bottom line is that the International Criminal Court (ICC) issued arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Yoav Gallant, the former Minister of Defense of Israel, alleging responsibility for the war crime of starvation as a method of warfare and the crimes against humanity of murder, persecution, and other inhumane acts during the Gaza war. Even in war there are lines that aren't crossed by civilised countries or their leaders.
A subsequent UN Commission of Inquiry called for genocide charges to be added to the warrant after finding the Israeli government guilty of multiple violations of the 1948 Genocide Convention.
The ICC also issued an arrest warrant for Hamas military commander Mohammed Deif but it was later learned that he had been killed in an Israeli airstrike.
Just as all Jews aren't Zionists or Israelis, very few Palestinians are Hamas. Israel's Palestinian genocide is a disproportionate response to Hamas terrorism.
That's no excuse to bring their wars to Australia.Last time I checked Bondi beach wasnt connected to the Gaza strip. Same with these pro Palestinian demonstrations where Australian Flags are burnt and ISIS flags are flown, it's got nothing to do with Australia and we are not a battleground for religious holy wars. Albanese by his own admission hasn't done enough, sat on his Envoys report for 5 months and now we are having to look over our shoulder every time we shop at Westfield or Myer during the Christmas period. NSW police now want Rifles so they have more firepower...too little , too late from Albo and now our once safe country is a war zone.
So when he started we were 16th From memory SOS took care of the 2019 draft so 2020 is probably his.
2020 11th 2021 13th 2022 9th 2023 5th-prelim 2024 injury hit and still finished 8th 2025-all the drama in the world and still finished 11th
That's terrible list management...building a prelim side. He should be sacked. People have short memories
The last two years have actually been backwards for obvious (to most) reasons. So we do need and have a change in emphasis, we need to cover some losses and get back on track....but by no means a major rebuild.
Stkilda made the eight in 2020 and 2023 and no one would call them successful. Your idea of success is setting the bar very low. Supporters are being conditioned to accept mediocrity, finishing 11th would have triggered a Navy Blue Royal Commission back in the glory days but like the Saints making the eight for us is to be celebrated like a premiership now unfortunately. In fact Stkilda tried the same tactics as us this past draft/trade period when in 2019 they brought in Howard, Butler,Jones, Ryder and Hill as readymade players and as we know with limited success, triggering a fresh rebuild. A similar outcome for us wouldn't surprise...
That's one of the problems I see. Folks are living in the past...and tarring the current list management, which is a work in progress, on past failures. What we've done for the last twenty five years has little bearing on what we've done in the last two years. If you look at our list at the start of 2024 we had the KPP's nailed down and good ruck stocks. We set about filling the gaps. Priorities would have turned to better ball users and a bit of pace. But then injuries and other issues hit us hard, offers came for our KPPs, season ending injuries happened, mental health issues and player divisions fractured the list.
Have a look at the side we, as a forum, picked at the beginning of the year. Then look at what happened to it in terms of games played. Then tell me if even half those things didn't occur we would have still finished 11th. The list management hasn't been as bad as some people think. The luck and other issues have been worse than most people realise.
Nick Austin has been at the club for six years, remind me when we started rebuilding? You want Austin and crew judged on the last two years only?, so I would presume that initial rebuild has been declared a failure and we are starting again given you say we are a work in progress?
Seriously. Kruddler makes some valid arguments that on the face of things may make many people question the club list management direction.
But to suggest that he does so without the full resources, effort and background knowledge that the club possesses isn't lazy...it's a fact.
I think the problem is that in presenting a lot of information contrary to the club's direction it is also presented as a 'fact' rather than an opinion.
I'm truly sorry if the 'club knows a little more' about the draftees' hits a nerve. It's just something I happen to believe...and yes it may not always end in a desired outcome, but that doesn't mean multiple options haven't been explored. It's like an iceberg...we only see the tip and the final result.
Not always is a stretch of the truth, try " never", 20-30 years of failure tells the story of a club who failed to embrace the draft from day one and whose list management strategies have been ineffective for the majority of the time. Krud like any other supporter is vindicated in being skeptical of any List Management decisions and at least provides detail and background to his theories rather than the clubs lack of accountability hidden under a Navy Blue blur of PR and spin. How does having access to more resources give the List Management at the club any credibility when clearly the results dont back up that implication? and in fact having more access to greater resources only makes their performance even more questionable over the journey.
Kruddler goes to great effort to discuss list management and pulling out the old club knows more than you is just lazy and discourages people from participating.
Agree, the lack of success vindicates a lot of what Krud discusses. The club knows best is living in denial of reality.
I see England's constant complaining has managed to influence the 3rd Umpire and sway the benefit of the doubt in their favour, Boland and Carey unlucky not to have Root's wicket in the 10th over, or ripped off from another perspective.
It's a bit like watching a Geelong or Hawthorn football game!
re Root: That ball hit the ground imo and was the right decision,batsman has to get the benefit of any doubt. Carey himself should have been out yesterday but the technology got it wrong but its all part of the game and generally the decisions even out over the series.
Green is the most over rated, over hyped player in memory
Tend to agree, talked about as a future captain but is struggling to maintain his place in the team. No doubt got talent but doesnt deliver often enough to warrant the automatic selection status he seems to hold. Has managed to find his way into the senior player inner sanctum where once you are in and connected its very hard to lose your place in the team/squad.
Once again the inevitable happens thanks to our weak as piss namby pamby in denial governments. When asked a pointed question by a report last night, Albo fill his shorts. Pathetic.
I havent been following. Whats happened now?
Was it in relation to the Bondi thing?
I think we need to treat those situations a little differently. Activism, violence, and potential co-ordination between extremists groups. Hard to pin this on a local government for anything here.
Governments have been pandering to protesters/activists and allowing a underlying anti semitic tone to develop in the community. States and the Federal Government have been weak in cracking down on this political unrest between these opposing factions, its got nothing to do with Australian Politics and those pursuing their agendas through terrorism need dealing with more severely and made an example of to deter future attacks. Albanese needs to stop making policy to get re-elected and start protecting the community and make the country secure from these nutcase radicals bringing their politics and problems to Australia.
Brisbane get away with Morris at FF because they have a red hot midfield delivering dimes. We have a history of trying to cheat with non specialist players in key roles but always avoid fixing the underlying problems. Cripps, Walsh, Hewett,Acres, Ollie etc will still be doing the majority of the delivering so nothing will change. Haywood will find the ball lobbed on his head like Charlie did and same with Harry. HOK is a good colt and will have his moments but as Freo have found out with the talented Luke Jackson, playing him forward as a tall forward works best as a shock tactic not as a regular event. Hampson and Kruezer are a reminder of trying to cheat ending in disaster.
You've not watched the training sessions and seen how our ball movement is very different and quite precise? Florent, Smith, Ison, Byrne, Hayward, Chesser, etc rarely miss a target and it's apparent that sharpening our kicking skills has been a major off-season focus.
Skull has always played as a key forward/ruck in the VFL. His 10.6 from 9 games last season helped propel him into the seniors and his 3.4 from his three games was a decent return. Time will tell if he is to emulate Paul Salmon, Charlie Dixon, Sam Darcy, Riley Thilthorpe and other ruckmen who succeeded as key forwards.
Training and the VFL are a lot different to senior footy when the pressure is on. Those players you mentioned are not in the same parish as what Morris has giving him the ball. Three of them haven't played a game and you failed to address the issue of our main midfield group still doing the majority of the work including delivery. I'd expect Ison, Byrne and Chesser to start in the VFL and Voss to stick with his experienced players initially given the reality that he is coaching for his future.
Brisbane get away with Morris at FF because they have a red hot midfield delivering dimes. We have a history of trying to cheat with non specialist players in key roles but always avoid fixing the underlying problems. Cripps, Walsh, Hewett,Acres, Ollie etc will still be doing the majority of the delivering so nothing will change. Haywood will find the ball lobbed on his head like Charlie did and same with Harry. HOK is a good colt and will have his moments but as Freo have found out with the talented Luke Jackson, playing him forward as a tall forward works best as a shock tactic not as a regular event. Hampson and Kruezer are a reminder of trying to cheat ending in disaster.
Mark Wood done for the series, yet again injured and he should retire from test cricket. Been replaced by Matthew Fisher who has been touring with the English Lions who shadow the test team as a reserves type outfit. Fisher who has the one test wicket is a fairly nondescript typical English seamer who wont trouble too many Aus batters imo if he does get to play a test or two. Not to be confused with the young NZ quick of the same name who is a lot quicker and looks promising. Im tipping Archer will be the next English bowler to pick up an injury and need a rest and while England Im sure will improve via the law of averages and probably win at least one test I think Aus can send Bazball on its way with a 4-1 scoreline.
That's the whole point. I'm sorry these guys are not there. Fully fit they would be in everybody's best team. They would enhance our side. If we were doing this exercise and they were still on the list they get a game in most people's sides.
Why? Because the ground rules Kruddler laid down said they were "fully fit" (even O' Farrell is in the mix and he might not even play a game next year.)
I think some have forgotten the 'ground' rules for this List Management debate, and the key question. "Higher ladder position in 2025 or 2026" Some are having difficulty grasping why we won't slide.
That debate question spreads over a number of threads, is ongoing, and also applies here... Will we perform better in 2026 than we did in 2025 given the changes to the list?
And that debate centres around the three main players we have lost, and the players coming in through trade and draft. Don't think Coleman Charlie 2023, think Charlie 2025.
Charlie's contribution 2023 would be near impossible to cover Charlie 2025...not so much. There is every chance they will blossom at their new clubs and regain their best form, but early indications for 2026 are not great with both Jack and Tom missing some significant pre-season. Jack in particular seems to have an ongoing injury issue...and I suspect for some time has had a fair bit on his plate, which may go some way to explaining his decision to move.
Tom has had the distraction of the big money move. Charlie and Jack have had ongoing injury problems, all these impacted on their form the past year.
And that's why if you ask me the question... Will we be better in 2026 than we were at 11th place in 2025?...I'm guessing, yes. Will we finish higher than we did in 2023...I'm guessing, no....2027 for that target.
So TDK, Charlie and Jack are in fact better players when fully fit than those we have acquired? Im not thinking what a player did in what particular year or how fit they were last year or the year before, Im selecting on ability and the presumption those players will be fit at some stage in the future if our medical/fitness staff can get their act together. If we are building a list based around fitness first then Sam Walsh would have to be a candidate to be traded out next season if he is injured again for a long period if thats now a large part of our list management decision making for the future? If Harry McKay had another mental health episode and took a break would that also place him in the trade basket?... Are you willing to trade out all our A grade talent on the basis they may never be fully fit and replace them with players with less ability..?
Given TDK, Charlie and Jack were/are now classified as spuds/navy blue infidels and the players we have brought in are vastly superior you wouldnt be able to include the afore mentioned three in your best 23 for next season if they were still on the list and the new recruits were also available?
I don't think anyone is saying these players we lost were 'duds' They were obviously best 23 All three would probably make most folks selctions. They'd make mine.
But their 2025 form was sub par, except perhaps for Jack who showed some promise as a KPD....before he was injured So in determining whether we improve from 2025 to 2026 we don't look at their best, we look at what they gave us in 2025 and that gap, if it exists, isn't that large.
The whole list debate centres around the difference between 2025 and 2026 Whether we finish about the same, 11th, whether we drop...or progress. Some think we'll slide based on the loss of the three amigos. Some think we'll stay about the same. Others see us progressing.
We don't know the future. In a lot of respects the list won't be a determining factor....it will be a better run with injuries, how the new players gel, no issues like player mental health, no division, a totally committed group... and a big change in luck, which hasn't been our friend the last two years.
Can't see how they make your best team if you and others have said their loss would be negligible in effect and say we have a better improved team without them. You can't have it both ways...if we are a better team without them why would you pick them in your best 23? TDK isn't as a good a ruckman as Pittonet, HOk ,or Reidy, JSOS is slow and Injury prone and Charlie isnt productive enough with a poor attitude...that's what I have been reading. Surely they would be VFL players and backup only...
Yep Cripps, McKay Weitering, Walsh, Hewett all duds
Moir, O'Keefe, Smith, Dean....probably won't get a game in this side. What were we thinking drafting losers like Hayward and Ainsworth to bolster the forward line. O'Farrell...will struggle to get back...ever!
We're screwed.
Thank heavens for Evans.
Given TDK, Charlie and Jack were/are now classified as spuds/navy blue infidels and the players we have brought in are vastly superior you wouldnt be able to include the afore mentioned three in your best 23 for next season if they were still on the list and the new recruits were also available?
