while i agree the LM decisions are bewildering imo Voss is still not the man. he is controlling a team that was supposed to be playing deep into sept yet lost to cellar dwellers in Richmond, North and pumped by Port.
Cant blame the LM for that.
Yes and no. LM drafts players on football ability and character. Gimme a hard working, loyal B grader who would run through brick walls for the jumper and the coach over an A grade sook who throws the toys out of the pram when it all gets too hard.
Still mate the players that took the field for both of those losses were more then capable to beat those teams and failed.
That is on Voss and the players that took the field in those 2 games - they just didnt want it enough
We went to the draft last year after losing a few seasoned footballers and then replaced them with the likes of Evans!
And then we wonder why we went backwards.
Some of us were VERY pissed off with the list direction in the off-season flagging that had not improved our list in the off-season. Some of us were VERY strongly aiming the cross-hairs on Lloyd and the recruiting department for taking this direction.
Voss is coping all the flack, when he was essentially set up to fail by the above.
The cherry on top was 'the saviour' doing his knee and being out for the year.
while i agree the LM decisions are bewildering imo Voss is still not the man. he is controlling a team that was supposed to be playing deep into sept yet lost to cellar dwellers in Richmond, North and pumped by Port.
Id argue Voss was hired to win a premiership and not build a list and that adding established players to fill holes on your list was what most clubs would do when in the premiership window.
110% - i just wrote similar on another topic.
We went to the draft last year after losing a few seasoned footballers and then replaced them with the likes of Evans!
And then we wonder why we went backwards.
Houston was exactly the sort of player we needed and word is he wanted to come to us. A reliable user of the ball. I bet he is grateful we said no as he may have a medal around his neck come years end instead of going on Mad Monday after the H and A season.
Just because we have sacked a lot of coaches doesnt have any bearing imo on the current situation. Every decision has to be on merit and Voss is not the man and never was.
An amazing footballer doesnt make a good coach.
We have no system still cant deliver the ball into F50 have no plan B.
Our list is lacking pieces on all lines but from a strategic perspective our coaching group led by Voss is below par and not anywhere near what the better teams have. We need a coach as well as a coaching group that will get the very best out of every player and provide systems when we get injuries the whole list knows the system and knows they role to play. We lose a few players and become a rabble.
4 years is enough time.
You keep bringing up how we've been poor for 30+ years.
Yet now the other sacked coaches don't matter.
Either you bring history into it or you don't. Can't have it both ways.
"Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it."
Historically we have been crap for 3 decades and thats a fact - what is debatable is whether sacking coaches was a reason behind those results. i dont think it was but more so who we selected as to the pivotal failure was imo.
I said from day one i wasnt a fan of Voss and he was the wrong choice out of the candidates available and thats where the mistake was made not what the previous failed coaches did or didnt do nor our history in failed coaches.
Time to rip the bandaid off and hopefully this time we find the right man for the job.
Maybe we just keep picking the wrong ones. If its just the club that is the issue im guessing a lot of the young coaches in that group went on to success.
Not one did.
We had a choice of Kingsley, McRae and Voss. We picked the biggest name in the pack despite his previous record being average at best.
Word was Pies had Voss ranked last in the process.
The rest is history
so you're saying the guys who are correct in sacking coaches cant hire the right one or keep choosing the wrong one?
Maybe the blokes making those decisions should get sacked instead.
Just because we have sacked a lot of coaches doesnt have any bearing imo on the current situation. Every decision has to be on merit and Voss is not the man and never was.
An amazing footballer doesnt make a good coach.
We have no system still cant deliver the ball into F50 have no plan B.
Our list is lacking pieces on all lines but from a strategic perspective our coaching group led by Voss is below par and not anywhere near what the better teams have. We need a coach as well as a coaching group that will get the very best out of every player and provide systems when we get injuries the whole list knows the system and knows they role to play. We lose a few players and become a rabble.
10 senior coaches in 25 years. An average of 2.5 years each. This is worse, when you consider it's been 4 years of voss, it was 4 years of Bolton and 5 years of Ratten.
Some have churned through a few, but there's a theme. Who's another basket case for most of this century?
Melbourne. They've had 7 senior coaches. Who else? Freo? 4.
Who else? Essendon and the saints equal our record.
There's a theme there. Crap clubs, lots of off field controversy and instability (financial penalties too) and a complete and utter failure to achieve anything since the year 2000 with st.kilda getting an asterisk for a brief period of being a bridesmaid, but more often than not, these clubs miss finals.
Maybe we just keep picking the wrong ones. If its just the club that is the issue im guessing a lot of the young coaches in that group went on to success.
Not one did.
We had a choice of Kingsley, McRae and Voss. We picked the biggest name in the pack despite his previous record being average at best.
Word was Pies had Voss ranked last in the process.
Yep agree. The only thing is as they are playing for a premiership they only need the 4 points so may not be interested in killing us and once the game is banked like at QT they may conserve themself.
Teams with that mentality do not win flags, it's a sign of arrogance, it's the coaches job to drum it out of them and they would love nothing more than to pile on the pain.
The best teams plan and plan everything to the finest detail.
Pies rested 4 of their stars for a Freo game interstate and said that was planned in their off season planning about when to give their older players a rest. And they get the 4 points.
They are 1st 2 games clear and we are done for the year.
The thing is EB our list should be at the point where we are putting finishes touches to it and so a proven finals coach like Longmire along with his own selected line coaches/assistants would IMO be the best way to give this current group any chance of success.
Think an untried coach is an option if its determined this list is shot and need to start a new fresh build.
Personally the list and in particular many of our 'best' players are overrated and as Buckley said the level of performance from our A graders drops off way too much when having an average day and this is just how it is hence why i rate them not as A graders and overrated (reckon we only have 2 real A graders in Cripps and Weitering and thats it).
And as we are not exactly blessed with under 25 talent, either new coach option is still going to be tricky and based on our previous records with this stuff its hard to be positive anymore about anything our once great club does. Having said that one option has to occur as 4 years is enough with this group to confirm Voss is not the man and should never have been appointed over Kingsley.
The thing is EB our list should be at the point where we are putting finishes touches to it and so a proven finals coach like Longmire along with his own selected line coaches/assistants would IMO be the best way to give this current group any chance of success.
Think an untried coach is an option if its determined this list is shot and need to start a new fresh build.
Personally the list and in particular many of our 'best' players are overrated and as Buckley said the level of performance from our A graders drops off way too much when having an average day and this is just how it is hence why i rate them not as A graders and overrated (reckon we only have 2 real A graders in Cripps and Weitering and thats it).
And as we are not exactly blessed with under 25 talent, either new coach option is still going to be tricky and based on our previous records with this stuff its hard to be positive anymore about anything our once great club does. Having said that one option has to occur as 4 years is enough with this group to confirm Voss is not the man and should never have been appointed over Kingsley.
The list is over hyped, it's slow, full of poor kicking players and reliant on too few having to play blinders every game for us to win. A disinterested TDK and a sick Cripps meant we were doomed last night...the gap between our best players and the rest is like the Grand Canyon. Players like Cerra who are meant to be bridging that gap don't....
Yes agree EB.
And mentally they are not up to it. The minute pressure comes on any level they melt.
Its the same reason we manage to score when the game is done.
I think the drop off is temporary and a product of a list that isnt in good condition.
You seem to think its at optimum capacity to perform and not performing to that potential.
There is the variance, its not about condeding or arguing who is right or wrong, but saying it was at full strength is a massive stretch. Cripps alone is playing within 50% of his top form of last season. Is he rubbish now? Or is he simply having an off year?
No im not saying we are fully fit and not performing how we should - what im trying to get across is that we are fit enough to be performing much better then we are and every year we underperform the injury card comes out as the main reason. Its not IMO.
No team is ever fully fit. Its a brutal sport you have to be able to perform when you have your fair share of injuries as that what all successful teams do.
I only wish our issues was fitness of the squad but IMO we have far bigger problems then that. The list is over rated and the coaches on all levels are probably the worst in the comp.
We lost to Richmond in Round 1 with close to full list.
You have said this a couple of times, but our list isnt close to being in good condition, and I debate how close to full it was, given the team that fielded that day didnt include a two time coleman medallist, and had 2 new players that hadnt played for the club before. That doesnt sound like full strength to me.
2 time coleman medalist - is that the guy who has managed a grand total of ZERO goals in our last 2 games against the 13th and 17th sides on the ladder when the heat was on for us to show some heart ? oh thats right he is still injured isnt he.
So we missed him in R1 did we against Richmond currently sitting in 16th?
And we played 2 new guys so that's another reason is it? Did you see Richmond's list that night and how many of their better players were out. Most tipped them for the spoon and we were supposed to come charging back up to top 4 this year?
I get it you don't want to concede with this list build but there comes a time when you have to be honest enough to call it as it is.
Port had Butters, Farrell and Bergman delivering majority of I50 with 70% accuracy
We had Lord, Fogarty and Charlie with 48% accuracy
We are going to face Collingwood that have Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Daicos and few others that go at 70% +
It's Vaseline time.
Yep agree. The only thing is as they are playing for a premiership they only need the 4 points so may not be interested in killing us and once the game is banked like at QT they may conserve themself.
Remember this is an organised professional outfit who does what they need to to get the job done. Us on the other hand....
This business about "the modern game" seems to be the hottest ticket in town. I'd be curious to know what it actually is.
We dont play like this, because our squads outside game is significantly hindered by players being broken down. All our creative and running types are well down on their best so we have to stick with what our strength is, and try and generate scores that way, because we dont have another mode we can go to.
We lost to Richmond in Round 1 with close to full list.
The media are pumping up Adam Simpson. Do you remember what they did to him despite having the worst injury list in history?
I wouldn't be going back and recycling old coaches like Simpson and Longmire. I'd be be looking at Enright or similar and getting a younger more innovative coach who can get us into the modern era plus a new recruiting team and football boss.
The thing is EB our list should be at the point where we are putting finishes touches to it and so a proven finals coach like Longmire along with his own selected line coaches/assistants would IMO be the best way to give this current group any chance of success.
Think an untried coach is an option if its determined this list is shot and need to start a new fresh build.
Personally the list and in particular many of our 'best' players are overrated and as Buckley said the level of performance from our A graders drops off way too much when having an average day and this is just how it is hence why i rate them not as A graders and overrated (reckon we only have 2 real A graders in Cripps and Weitering and thats it).
And as we are not exactly blessed with under 25 talent, either new coach option is still going to be tricky and based on our previous records with this stuff its hard to be positive anymore about anything our once great club does. Having said that one option has to occur as 4 years is enough with this group to confirm Voss is not the man and should never have been appointed over Kingsley.
