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11
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments
Last post by DJC -
Quote from: LP – on
The pain is palpable, but the conclusions are all wrong, I understand they want to blame someone, the person firing the gun is the best place to start.

Further laws, further words, won't stop what is happening, the solution lies beyond Australia's border. You cannot escape a religious war by crossing a border, it goes where you go, you have to solve the problem at it's genesis.

The footage I saw shows the rock throwing man pick up the discard shotgun, aim it the terrorist then put it down again before being shot.  It's not clear whether he was shot while aiming the shotgun.  Not everyone is capable of shooting at another human being and the rock throwing man may not have known how to fire the shotgun.  Either way, he was another hero and his daughter's words are powerful, but wrong.  Governments can only do so much to minimise terrorist attacks and it seems pretty clear that the perpetrators were radicalised long ago and not by those protesting against Israel's genocide in Palestine.  In the words of Tom Waits:

"So thousands dead and wounded on both
Sides most of them middle eastern civilians
They fill their children full of hate to fight an old man's war
And die upon the road to peace"

It's people, not governments, that allow terrorists to strike.
12
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments
Last post by PaulP -
Robert Pape has done significant work in the related and adjacent space of suicide attacks and terrorism. His book Dying To Win contains original research and is now a landmark study in the field. It may surprise some that most people who carry out such attacks are not motivated by religion. As Pape shows, their scriptural literacy and interest in religion is low. Many of the attackers are secular. What motivates them more than anything is foreign powers doing s h i t t y things to their people and on their land, removing any possibility of self determination and removing any chance of building a life of some meaning and purpose.

Material conditions always take precedence over theological principles and considerations.
13
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments
Last post by LP -
The pain is palpable, but the conclusions are all wrong, I understand they want to blame someone, the person firing the gun is the best place to start.

Further laws, further words, won't stop what is happening, the solution lies beyond Australia's border. You cannot escape a religious war by crossing a border, it goes where you go, you have to solve the problem at it's genesis.
14
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments
Last post by Gointocarlton -
This letter in the HS is from the daughter of a man who was killed on Sunday. He was seen throwing an object at the shooter who was disarmed. He was later wounded (fatally).

Sheina’s full statement

My father was murdered.
In cold blood.
Shot.
For being Jewish.
He did not cower. He did not lay low.
He sprang to action. To fight.
He was a man bigger than life itself.
No boundary was uncrossable.
Impossible was not a word in his mind.
He put others before himself. It cost him his life.
Ripped from his wife, daughter, son-in-law, and dear grandchildren.
Leaving a gaping, heaving wound of sorrow.
His love reached far and wide. His impact on the world was quiet, but absolutely immense.
A philanthropist with a heart of gold, bigger than his chest.
A man with humour and wit.
A friend whose loyalty knew no bounds.
It is a surreal nightmare from the deepest, darkest depths of hell.
A reality far too horrendous for any human mind to process.
Devoted to his faith. A loud and proud Jew.
He fled the USSR to live as a Jew without fear.
To an Australia that welcomed him with open arms.
Where he rekindled his faith.
Where he built a family, a successful business, and became a quiet philanthropist.
A large man of immense kindness, who put the needs of others before his own.
Who brought light into every life he touched.
And then.
Australia did not fail quietly.
It failed loudly, repeatedly, and with full knowledge.
Its government watched hatred grow and chose to do nothing.
They minimised it. They excused it. They dismissed Jewish warnings as noise.
A black, monstrous tornado cloud of antisemitic hate rolled in.
It marched on bridges.
It waved green, black, and red flags.
It called for death to the Jews.
This was not a shock.
This was not sudden.
This was not unpredictable.
Antisemitism was out in the open.
Threats were real.
Fear was voiced again and again.
And the government did nothing that mattered.
Collectively, they abandoned us all, allowing antisemitism to fester.

Instead of running from the bullets that flew toward his community.
Instead of running from the bullets that flew toward his community.
A government that refuses to protect Jews after being warned does not get to claim innocence.
A government that lets hate fester holds responsibility for the blood that follows.
It has his blood on its hands.
The blood of all the victims.
To those sheep who mindlessly reposted calls for intifada, you are guilty.
To those who adorned themselves in keffiyehs and pro-Pal slogans, you are guilty.
My father was murdered because leaders were weak.
Because they were lazy.
Because they cared more about optics than lives.
Do not dare call this a lone act.
Do not dare speak of bad luck or bad timing.
This was the result of neglect and moral rot at the top.
Australia betrayed him.
Its government betrayed him.
They cleared the way.
My father is dead because those in power chose inaction.
And that stain will not wash off.

You are guilty.

15
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments
Last post by LP -
Quote from: DJC – on
The Bondi massacre appears to be Islamist terrorism ... and the hero who disarmed one of the terrorists is Muslim.

You have to wonder at the warped thinking that enables a father and son to commit such an atrocity.
This is the uncomfortable truth for many who wish to point fingers at various segments of the population.

Criminals commit crimes, good citizens obey laws, more law is not the answer.

The whole gun laws debate reminds me about the futility of domestic violence orders in the protection of women and children, for the lunatic and criminal a piece of paper is just another thing to wipe your ar5e with!

Language is important, not just the language after the event, because it is the language before the event that is the motivation. In this Bondi case both sides are guilty of a long history of linguistic rock throwing, and when people stand up for and defend the actions of a lunatic they contribute to the events that occur in reaction. A terrorist hiding in the basement is not a justification for bombing a hospital, a dispute at the border is not an excuse to fire on a music festival, never was and never will be. There will be reprisals in both directions, all of them grossly misplaced.

In the meantime, somebody profits selling weapons, should we make the war mongers responsible for the actions of their customers? It's not achievable, it's like making a car maker responsible for the actions of a drunk driver. Yet, when Netanyahu spoke he blamed Australia for the actions of a terrorist, it's deliberate and deceptive, he is laying the groundwork for the justification of further violence. In case you do not know, Israel is one of the world's biggest weapons traders, Netanyahu grows richer from war.
16
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments
Last post by LP -
Quote from: crashlander – on
Gun laws might need a tweak, but it is the enforcing that appears to be lacking. If laws get ignored or not followed because it is too hard, then things like this will happen.
People are not crooks until the commit a crime, and true criminals do not give a rats-ar5e about the law.

All that making more laws does is increase the burden on society.
17
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments
Last post by Gointocarlton -
I will just add this, thankfully the animals on Sunday didn't have semi automatic rifles or automatic assault rifles as the carnage would have been horrific (double or triple the toll). One shooter however appeared to have a pump action shotgun of sorts and these need to be made illegal immediately as the Howard ban intended after Port Arthur. Automatic shotguns have popped back into circulation (legally obtained) with a special condition licence. I have always been against this as in my opinion, there is no need for them whatsover. Break open over/under or side by side shot guns (2 cartridges max) should be all that is legal along with bolt action rifles for registered hunters and target shooters, nothing else.
Over and above this, without going into a racist type commentary, the authorities need to revamp who holds a firearm licence. Currently, If you have a mental illness and are taking medication, you cannot hold a licence for obvious reasons. The authorities need to extend this by tracking down all the members of known terrorist organisations and remove their licences (perhaps before deporting them altogether). As for people who visit and frequent known terrorist training camps and hot spots like in the Philippines for example, those people cannot hold a firearms licence IMO. Extreme measures and strategic tactics are needed to combat this.
18
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments
Last post by Thryleon -
More controls arent a bad thing, but its not a panacea.

You just end up with a sponsor.  i.e.  Outsource the gun sourcing to a stand up citizen who can sell it to the highest bidder for bitcoin.

Unregulated access to firearms will always be a thing and making people jump through hoops will flag them early to authorities that they are potentially aiming to do something, but hypothetically, if I am the gun owner, and I do it all above board, thats not going to stop some undesirable from using my guns.  If it is proven my guns were used, then that would change it for next time, but as we have seen, these things arent regular occurrences and it would be like the Hydra.  The next cab off the rank would be arming the nutters.


(not that I would do it, but a stand up citizen on paper has thoughts and feels that cant be measured).
19
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: Shawny’s concerns about Victorian and Australian Governments
Last post by DJC -
Jeremy Liebler, who is head of a Zionist group, was on the wireless a couple of days ago and one of the things he said that I agreed with is that now is not the time to look at gun laws.  However, what Albo is talking about is establishing a national register and ensuring that all States and Territories have digital registers.  Queensland, South Australia, the Northern Territory, and the Australian Capital Territory still have paper-based or outdated firearms registers and that is unacceptable.

I now have a digital shooter’s licence on my phone.  If the Victorian Government can manage that, Albo should be kicking arses to get the lagging States and Territories to bring their registers into the 21st century.

Of course, having a national digitised register won’t prevent terrorist or sovereign citizen attacks but it would make it easier for ASIO to determine whether radicalised nutters have access to firearms.