Carlton Supporters Club

Quote from: kruddler – on December 04, 2025, 05:37:13 pm

There is a reason the spine is called a spine in football. Its important piece that everything is built around.

We are rebuilding, but not with foundations. We are doing it with fluffy pillows, wallpaper and a change of curtains. The main structure is largely being ignored, and its only a matter of time until the cracks show through and the real issues can no longer be ignored.

Why does it have to be built that way?
Who made that rule?
It may be 'traditional' list building but who is to say its the only way

SOS built a spine but failed with the other bones the heart, muscle

I'm sure Dean, O'Farrell, O'Keefe, Smith, Ison and others don't see themselves as fluffy pillows

Quote from: Lods – on December 04, 2025, 05:21:05 pm

We didn't fall off a cliff.
But I'm not going to argue if you want to feel thats what happened.
We've been challenged the last two years and it proved a bit much
In 2023 we finished 5th but with a bit of luck and desperation we made it through to a prelim
In other words we played out of our skin but in the end we weren't good enough.
I suspect what happened then was there were areas identified that we needed to address and subsequent drafting has concentrated on those areas....speed, disposal, depth.

Were not going the full rebuild. We're just strengthening the foundations before we add the roof.

There is a reason the spine is called a spine in football. Its important piece that everything is built around.

We are rebuilding, but not with foundations. We are doing it with fluffy pillows, wallpaper and a change of curtains. The main structure is largely being ignored, and its only a matter of time until the cracks show through and the real issues can no longer be ignored.

Quote from: kruddler – on December 04, 2025, 05:00:45 pm

I said we've falled off a cliff, you said it was extreme, i provided evidence its far from extreme and we can't simply blame it on injuries as we had every chance to get ahead of that before we did.

But, you say injuries are why we fell off a cliff, then if thats all it is, why are we rebuilding?

You see how things are not adding up?

The players we have recruited are worse than whats going out.
The reasons we are recruited said type of players is because we needed a rebuild to change things up.....which i disagree with. We didn't need a rebuild, we needed to draft long term KP depth and top up the list in areas we were deficient. Had we have done this, we would still be looking at the cliff from the top, not looking back up at it, all battered and bruised.

2 years from now, maybe we've had time to scale that cliff again, i'm far from certain thats the case, but time will tell.
In the meantime our current a-graders are entering the twilight of their careers and we have little to replace them with currently.

Yet somehow, the guys in charge are doing a terrific job.

DOES. NOT. COMPUTE.

We didn't fall off a cliff.
But I'm not going to argue if you want to feel thats what happened.
We've been challenged the last two years and it proved a bit much
In 2023 we finished 5th but with a bit of luck and desperation we made it through to a prelim
In other words we played out of our skin but in the end we weren't good enough.
I suspect what happened then was there were areas identified that we needed to address and subsequent drafting has concentrated on those areas....speed, disposal, depth.

Were not going the full rebuild. We're just strengthening the foundations before we add the roof.

Quote from: Lods – on December 04, 2025, 03:46:30 pm

You've completely changed the subject. We were talking about recruiting.
Yep we've had a drop off in performance but the reasons for that are down to a number of aspects other than recruiting, including injury and division.
The list in 2024 and 2025 was still solid but it was unable to cope with what occurred.
I think we may have a bit more depth and durability going forward but it's a wait and see.

I said we've falled off a cliff, you said it was extreme, i provided evidence its far from extreme and we can't simply blame it on injuries as we had every chance to get ahead of that before we did.

But, you say injuries are why we fell off a cliff, then if thats all it is, why are we rebuilding?

You see how things are not adding up?

The players we have recruited are worse than whats going out.
The reasons we are recruited said type of players is because we needed a rebuild to change things up.....which i disagree with. We didn't need a rebuild, we needed to draft long term KP depth and top up the list in areas we were deficient. Had we have done this, we would still be looking at the cliff from the top, not looking back up at it, all battered and bruised.

2 years from now, maybe we've had time to scale that cliff again, i'm far from certain thats the case, but time will tell.
In the meantime our current a-graders are entering the twilight of their careers and we have little to replace them with currently.

Yet somehow, the guys in charge are doing a terrific job.

DOES. NOT. COMPUTE.

You've completely changed the subject. We were talking about recruiting.
Yep we've had a drop off in performance but the reasons for that are down to a number of aspects other than recruiting, including injury and division.
The list in 2024 and 2025 was still solid but it was unable to cope with what occurred.
I think we may have a bit more depth and durability going forward but it's a wait and see.

Quote from: Lods – on December 04, 2025, 08:31:25 am

Gee, you talk in extremes.
"Fallen off a cliff"
Have you been paying attention to what's happened with injury an off field shenanigans the last two years. 

Don't give too much weight to a dozen people voting. We could hold the election in my lounge room.

https://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=6889.msg418178#msg418178
CHECK THE DATE

Quote from: kruddler – on July 09, 2024, 04:31:31 pm

Yep.

Personally, i'd give TDK the week off. Just like i would've given Kennedy the week off.

At this time of year, with our injury list as small as it is, THIS is when you rest players and get them right. No point running players into the ground and not giving their body a chance to recover right before you start playing the most important games of the year - finals.

I am especially worried about TDK and keeping him fit because he appears to be a bit of an 'orchid' - needs perfect conditions to thrive.
That is, his athleticism is his strong point. His weakness is his body and consistency. We can't really carry a half-fit TDK in the same way we can carry a half fit Pittonet. Pitto doesn't need to run, jump, dodge. He is a push and shove guy who wants contact and wants to bruise you. If he is hurt, that doesn't really change the way he plays. He is by no means bullet proof and cops his injuries as well. But, if both rucks did an ankle, or copped a whack on the knee....or a corky....who would be more effected by that?

Its not an easy decision, TDKs best is very good. His worst is terrible. Whereabouts on that rollercoaster he is on any given week you can only hope to understand. Pitto probably won't reach the highs of TDK, but he probably won't sink to the lows either. More 'even' performances week to week. More consistent.

Which one you pick may change depending on how risk averse you are.

This is one post i found, there will be many more, potentially even earlier. (When i post the amount i do its hard to find the posts you want via searches  )

At the time, we were 2nd and no injuries worries.
I harped on about resting players when we could (like Geelong have been a master at) but no, we played them until they broke down, to the point we barely had enough players to field a team.

Since then, we dropped from 2nd, to scraping into the finals in 8th before being blown away 10 goals to nothing to start the match.
Following year, we didn't learn from our mistakes, we doubled down.....and fell again, ultimately to 11th, but at one stage 16th, and never above 10th.

I expect a similar fall this year.
So yes, off a cliff.
If you think i'm being extreme, but you're not being extreme enough.

We had a prelim side with not a care in the world at the halfway point of the year which we turned into a rebuild over the next 18 months. How is that for extreme?

Quote from: kruddler – on December 04, 2025, 08:09:12 am

Its not definitive, sure, but its pretty clear that this site is not leaving out a-graders though is it.
It shows that those players are borderline best 23....and thats the point. Anyway can draft borderline best 23 players.
We lost 2 silvagni a-graders
We still have a few silvagni a-graders.
How many austin a-graders do we have despite him recruiting 75% of the list.

Every year its a 'work in progress, you can't judge yet' well when can we judge?
Performances wise we've fallen off a cliff.
Player wise we've lost more talented players than we've brought in.
Of the players we've brought in, the best hopes we have are 18+19yo kids so by the time they develop, our existing a-graders will be on the way out....and currently, their replacements are not on the list.

As a collective site, i liken our list management thought processes to the frog in the pan that slowly boils. Its happening too slowly for anyone to realise, but its bad news.

Gee, you talk in extremes.
"Fallen off a cliff"
Have you been paying attention to what's happened with injury an off field shenanigans the last two years. 

Don't give too much weight to a dozen people voting. We could hold the election in my lounge room.

Yep.

Personally, i'd give TDK the week off. Just like i would've given Kennedy the week off.

At this time of year, with our injury list as small as it is, THIS is when you rest players and get them right. No point running players into the ground and not giving their body a chance to recover right before you start playing the most important games of the year - finals.

I am especially worried about TDK and keeping him fit because he appears to be a bit of an 'orchid' - needs perfect conditions to thrive.
That is, his athleticism is his strong point. His weakness is his body and consistency. We can't really carry a half-fit TDK in the same way we can carry a half fit Pittonet. Pitto doesn't need to run, jump, dodge. He is a push and shove guy who wants contact and wants to bruise you. If he is hurt, that doesn't really change the way he plays. He is by no means bullet proof and cops his injuries as well. But, if both rucks did an ankle, or copped a whack on the knee....or a corky....who would be more effected by that?

Its not an easy decision, TDKs best is very good. His worst is terrible. Whereabouts on that rollercoaster he is on any given week you can only hope to understand. Pitto probably won't reach the highs of TDK, but he probably won't sink to the lows either. More 'even' performances week to week. More consistent.

Which one you pick may change depending on how risk averse you are.