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51
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by Lods -
Quote from: Blue Moon – on
Looking at those past finishes, Carlton has been in the dead zone. There are reasons and explanations but facts are facts. I am reasonably confident about how this year's trade and draft went, despite players we lost, but we should know pretty early whether we are going to be mediocre again this year.

That's the bottom line.
How next year pans out.
Everything else is just a guess.
My own feeling is we may start a little slowly as the new players find their place, and then be better later in the year.
That may not be the best for Voss, but hopefully he gets the whole year for judgement.
52
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by Blue Moon -
Looking at those past finishes, Carlton has been in the dead zone. There are reasons and explanations but facts are facts. I am reasonably confident about how this year's trade and draft went, despite players we lost, but we should know pretty early whether we are going to be mediocre again this year.
53
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by Lods -
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Quote from: Lods – on
So when he started we were 16th
From memory SOS took care of the 2019 draft so 2020 is probably his.

2020 11th
2021 13th
2022 9th
2023 5th-prelim
2024 injury hit and still finished 8th
2025-all the drama in the world and still finished 11th

That's terrible list management...building a prelim side.
He should be sacked.
People have short memories ::)  ::)

The last two years have actually been backwards for obvious (to most) reasons.
So we do need and have a change in emphasis, we need to cover some losses and get back on track....but by no means a major rebuild.


Stkilda made the eight in 2020 and 2023 and no one would call them successful.
Your idea of success is setting the bar very low. Supporters are being conditioned to accept mediocrity, finishing 11th would have triggered a Navy Blue Royal Commission back in the glory days but like the Saints making the eight for us is to be celebrated like a premiership now unfortunately. In fact Stkilda tried the same tactics as us this past draft/trade period when in 2019 they brought in Howard, Butler,Jones, Ryder and Hill as readymade players and as we know with limited success, triggering a fresh rebuild. A similar outcome for us wouldn't surprise...

'Days of yore expectations' are unrealistic in a modern 18 team competition.
Even a dinosaur like me realises that...
They're twice as hard to win, even moreso given the restrictions on clubs.
A Royal Commission would completely exonerate anyone involved in the 2025 debacle, especially the list manager.
Voss gets a pass.
Austin has little if any control over club dynamics.

The bar isn't set low.
It's set unrealistically high by ignoring all that occurred with the club during the season just gone.

All any supporter can ask for is continued improvement each year.
But that path is rarely a straight line and there will be peaks and troughs which usually occur around the availability of players.
54
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by ElwoodBlues1 -
Quote from: Lods – on
So when he started we were 16th
From memory SOS took care of the 2019 draft so 2020 is probably his.

2020 11th
2021 13th
2022 9th
2023 5th-prelim
2024 injury hit and still finished 8th
2025-all the drama in the world and still finished 11th

That's terrible list management...building a prelim side.
He should be sacked.
People have short memories ::)  ::)

The last two years have actually been backwards for obvious (to most) reasons.
So we do need and have a change in emphasis, we need to cover some losses and get back on track....but by no means a major rebuild.


Stkilda made the eight in 2020 and 2023 and no one would call them successful.
Your idea of success is setting the bar very low. Supporters are being conditioned to accept mediocrity, finishing 11th would have triggered a Navy Blue Royal Commission back in the glory days but like the Saints making the eight for us is to be celebrated like a premiership now unfortunately. In fact Stkilda tried the same tactics as us this past draft/trade period when in 2019 they brought in Howard, Butler,Jones, Ryder and Hill as readymade players and as we know with limited success, triggering a fresh rebuild. A similar outcome for us wouldn't surprise...
57
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by Lods -
So when he started we were 16th
From memory SOS took care of the 2019 draft so 2020 is probably his.

2020 11th
2021 13th
2022 9th
2023 5th-prelim
2024 injury hit and still finished 8th
2025-all the drama in the world and still finished 11th

That's terrible list management...building a prelim side.
He should be sacked.
People have short memories ::)  ::)

The last two years have actually been backwards for obvious (to most) reasons.
So we do need and have a change in emphasis, we need to cover some losses and get back on track....but by no means a major rebuild.

58
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by ElwoodBlues1 -
Quote from: Lods – on
That's one of the problems I see.
Folks are living in the past...and tarring the current list management, which is a work in progress, on past failures.
What we've done for the last twenty five years has little bearing on what we've done in the last two years.
If you look at our list at the start of 2024 we had the KPP's nailed down and good ruck stocks.
We set about filling the gaps.
Priorities would have turned to better ball users and a bit of pace.
But then injuries and other issues hit us hard, offers came for our KPPs, season ending injuries happened, mental health issues and player divisions fractured the list.

Have a look at the side we, as a  forum, picked at the beginning of the year.
Then look at what happened to it in terms of games played.
Then tell me if even half those things didn't occur we would have still finished 11th.
The list management hasn't been as bad as some people think.
The luck and other issues have been worse than most people realise.




Nick Austin has been at the club for six years, remind me when we started rebuilding?
You want Austin and crew judged on the last two years only?, so I would presume that initial rebuild has been declared a failure and we are starting again given you say we are a work in progress?
59
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by Lods -
Quote from: kruddler – on
Folks are living in the past?
You can't judge the current crop for years.

Geez how do i get a gig where there is no possible way to be judged?

I've said previously, what had the current team done to be given a free pass by everyone?

I could save the club millions simply by drafting off phantom lists. No accountability required

While folks continue to talk about things over half a century old they are dwelling on the past.

And is the list management team getting a free pass with no accountability??
An experienced former list manager, one who knows what it takes to build a premiership side, has spent the last 12 months surveying the club before taking over as CEO and removing the head of football.

At this point he has not done the same with either the coach or the list management team.

Now there is a possibility that he decided there was no time to change-up list mangement given the closeness of the trade/draft period. If that's the case Austin and others will be gone early in the New Year. In that case I'll have no problem in admitting he didn't pass muster.

But as of this moment he seems to have the confidence of the CEO who knows a thing or two about list management...so I'd say either way there is certainly accountability.
60
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by kruddler -
Folks are living in the past?
You can't judge the current crop for years.

Geez how do i get a gig where there is no possible way to be judged?

I've said previously, what had the current team done to be given a free pass by everyone?

I could save the club millions simply by drafting off phantom lists. No accountability required