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61
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: General Discussions
Last post by PaulP -
Quote from: DJC – on
...............................................

Australia was one of the 52 nations that abstained and that has drawn criticism from the left.  However, I think that there's merit in Britain's argument that it is wrong to "create a hierarchy of historical atrocities"...............................

I think we need to be wary, as per the Trump/Jacinta/Albanese comparison, of falling into the trap of false equivalence. The list of atrocities by humans is seemingly endless, but some are indisputable worse than others. The point that "all slavery is bad, why should slave trade x get the attention", has been discussed a lot. In scope, duration, contemporaneous and enduring trauma and devastation caused, and a whole bunch of other effects, the Euro American slave trade is without equal.
62
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: General Discussions
Last post by kruddler -
Quote from: DJC – on
Compulsory work for those serving prison sentences is a legitimate part of judicial punishment.  It's not slavery as there's no legal ownership of prison inmates by governments.
Some might disagree with the 'legitimate' part.
Some believe its a human rights violation.

That aside though, i think the biggest issue in the US is not what they do in the jail, but rather what they do to get people into jail.

Its a bit old hat now, but the documentary 'Making a murderer' highlights issue with the law enforcement and legal system.
Yes, that is but 1 example, but its way more common than anyone would like to admit.

There is the 'conspiracys' of crack cocaine being introduced to get black people into jail. Rules around penalties for that vs 'normal cocaine' used by 'white people' certainly defy a logical alternative to said consipiracy. Looking into how, where and why 'crack' even exists is a slippery slope into a world highlighting these injustices.

That is but 1 (or 2) example(s).

For mine, that is MORE of an issue then making prisoners work.
63
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: General Discussions
Last post by DJC -
Quote from: PaulP – on
Interested to see the results of the recent vote in the UN to declare the Transatlantic slave trade "the gravest crime against humanity." 123 states voted in favour, 52 abstentions, and 3 states voted against.

The three nations that voted against the resolution were the USA, Israel and Argentina.  The USA's vote is predictable in that sanitising slavery is one of MAGA's core objectives.  Israel simply doesn't want anyone else to take the focus off the Holocaust and  Argentina's foreign policy is virtually in lockstep with the USA and Israel.

Australia was one of the 52 nations that abstained and that has drawn criticism from the left.  However, I think that there's merit in Britain's argument that it is wrong to "create a hierarchy of historical atrocities". 

The Transatlantic slave trade was undoubtedly a crime against humanity.  But so was the abduction and enslavement of more than 1 million Europeans between 1530 and 1780 in a series of raids by North African pirates that depopulated coastal towns from Sicily to Cornwall, and as far away as Iceland.  Of course, the medieval Viking business model was based on the abduction and selling into slavery of whoever they could get and particularly Irish, Welsh, English, Franks and Slavs - and the word slave is derived from Slav.  Slavery in all of its forms is a crime against humanity and the belief that humans can be owned is an abomination.

A friend and former colleague is involved in the Western Australian Legacies of British Slavery Project that has looked into slave wealth and culture as a significant and ongoing historical force.  You can look at their research here:

https://australian-legacies-slavery.org/walbs-slaverys-legacies/

One thing that I didn't realise was that when the British Government abolished slavery in 1833, it granted £20 million of taxpayers' money to be paid by British taxpayers to former slave-owners in compensation for their loss of property.

Compulsory work for those serving prison sentences is a legitimate part of judicial punishment.  It's not slavery as there's no legal ownership of prison inmates by governments.


65
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: General Discussions
Last post by kruddler -
Quote from: Baggers – on
Quote from: PaulP – on
Interested to see the results of the recent vote in the UN to declare the Transatlantic slave trade "the gravest crime against humanity." 123 states voted in favour, 52 abstentions, and 3 states voted against.

I wonder how many nations built their material wealth off the backs of slaves?

America is certainly one.

....and they continue to benefit from slavery.

A quick AI search came up with this alarming response.
=========
The question of whether prison work constitutes slavery is a subject of significant debate, involving legal interpretations, human rights perspectives, and historical context. While penal labor is generally permitted under international law, critics argue that many current practices, particularly in the United States and Australia, are tantamount to modern slavery due to elements of coercion, low pay, and exploitation.

Legal and International Frameworks
International Law: The International Labour Organisation (ILO) Convention 29 on Forced Labour prohibits forced labor but includes a specific exception for work or service exacted as a consequence of a conviction in a court of law. This exception is the primary legal basis for compulsory prison labor in many countries.

United States Constitution: The 13th Amendment to the US Constitution abolished slavery and involuntary servitude "except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted". This "punishment clause" allows for forced labor in prisons and is a major focal point for activists who campaign to Abolish Slavery National Network and Freedom United.

Australia: Anti-Slavery Australia notes that each Australian jurisdiction has provisions for legal compulsory work for people in prison, along with sanctions for those who refuse to work.
======

Only real difference i see between us and the US is that they actively seek to load up their prisons (generally targetting under-priveledged people - ie 'blacks') and we seem hell bent on keeping everyone out of prison  ::) Releasing everyone on bail.
68
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: General Discussions
Last post by PaulP -
Interested to see the results of the recent vote in the UN to declare the Transatlantic slave trade "the gravest crime against humanity." 123 states voted in favour, 52 abstentions, and 3 states voted against.
69
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)
Last post by DJC -
Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on
Didnt see Albo and crew volunteering to cut the fuel excise to help Australians or say they would return all that extra GST they will make on inflated petroleum product prices to farmers and the agriculture sector etc...Trump isnt the only one who can exploit or take advantage when it suits...

Morrison temporarily reduced fuel excise but no Australian government has ever refunded GST.

Of course, later analysis revealed that Morrison’s excise cut almost exclusively benefited high income households.  Targeted relief to low income families would have been a more equitable and effective measure.

The thing is that it’s virtually impossible to predict what Taco is going to do and that makes it hard for any government to get on the front foot.

The mid-terms aren’t all that far off and it seems inevitable that GOP will lose control of Congress and Taco will be history.  JD could be worse, but he will have impeachment to temper his excesses.



70
Blah-Blah Bar / Re: Trumpled (Alternative Leading)
Last post by Lods -
The Apocalypse we had to have ::)  ::)

The bright side. if there is one ::) ...
If these ridiculous actions and the absolute nonsense being sprouted, don't finish Trump there's no hope.