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91
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by Lods -
That's the way I see things
And it's probably 'it' in a nutshell and the centre of the whole debate.
It goes to the heart of the thread title-"More than one way to skin a cat."

Of course KPP's are important.
They are the 'backbone' of any side.

But as is generally agreed...they take time.
We drafted a spine in one draft, talented kids, that still took several years to hit their peak.
The problem was that when they did we were lacking in the supportive talent.

There are two ways to do it.
Draft the talls, and develop them, in the hope that when they reach their peak there is enough supportive talent around.
Or lay a foundation of talent and then bring them in via trade and free agency, ready to go, or well on the way to reaching their full potential.

The first one may be the more traditional way.
I suspect the second option is the direction the club has taken.

It's basically what were arguing about and I don't think anyone's going to change their mind before we see what happens on-field in the next year or two.
92
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by DJC -
Quote from: Professer E – on
Some people on this site regard KPP as less important than they have been, but a lot of them got targeted and sought after by clubs this year....Jamarra, JSOS, Charlie, the lad from Swines to Collingwood.  Large % of the trades if you ask me. If they are so "unimportant", why did club go after them?

I don't think that anyone is arguing the KPPs are less important.  The point is that there's less risk involved in bringing in established KPPs through trades and free agency than through the draft.  Eight of the 50 players drafted are KPPs and eight of the 36 players traded or taken as free agents are KPPs. 

The same applies for ruckmen.
93
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by Professer E -
Some people on this site regard KPP as less important than they have been, but a lot of them got targeted and sought after by clubs this year....Jamarra, JSOS, Charlie, the lad from Swines to Collingwood.  Large % of the trades if you ask me. If they are so "unimportant", why did club go after them?
95
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by Gointocarlton -
Quote from: Lods – on
Look this is pretty pointless.
You and I aren't going to agree.
So I'll finish up here...

I'm pretty sure SOS had signalled his intention to leave anyway and they brought his departure forward.

He may not have had anything of value, but he still cut the guts out of the list and then put it back together with some average players from other clubs  (many of whom he drafted) and some poor draft choices with early picks.

He had a great first draft.
Picked up Walsh, an easy choice for pick 1
The one he does get a bit of credit for is TDK.

But enough about Silvagni
He's no friend of Carlton.

Bottom line here is you sound like you're going to have a pretty miserable summer fretting about all the ways we can drop further down the ladder.
I on the other hand will be looking forward to the first practice games to see the "New Carlton"
x 2
97
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by Lods -
Look this is pretty pointless.
You and I aren't going to agree.
So I'll finish up here...

I'm pretty sure SOS had signalled his intention to leave anyway and they brought his departure forward.

He may not have had anything of value, but he still cut the guts out of the list and then put it back together with some average players from other clubs  (many of whom he drafted) and some poor draft choices with early picks.

He had a great first draft.
Picked up Walsh, an easy choice for pick 1
The one he does get a bit of credit for is TDK.

But enough about Silvagni
He's no friend of Carlton.

Bottom line here is you sound like you're going to have a pretty miserable summer fretting about all the ways we can drop further down the ladder.
I on the other hand will be looking forward to the first practice games to see the "New Carlton"
98
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by kruddler -
Quote from: Lods – on
Quote from: kruddler – on

There is a reason the spine is called a spine in football. Its important piece that everything is built around.

We are rebuilding, but not with foundations. We are doing it with fluffy pillows, wallpaper and a change of curtains. The main structure is largely being ignored, and its only a matter of time until the cracks show through and the real issues can no longer be ignored.

Why does it have to be built that way?
Who made that rule?
It may be 'traditional' list building but who is to say its the only way

SOS built a spine but failed with the other bones the heart, muscle

I'm sure Dean, O'Farrell, O'Keefe, Smith, Ison and others don't see themselves as fluffy pillows

I'm sure all the players we've ever delisted didnt seem themselves as fluffy pillows either.

It doesn't have to be built that way, but its tried and true.
SOS didn't fail, he was cut off before he got to finish.
Austin has had longer and done less.
Tell me what players SOS inherited that could net him 3x 1st round picks via trade. Hell, a former pick 1 only got us 2.

Austin has been piggybacking off the back of the value SOS added and continues to do so.
SOS didn't have anything of value when he took over.

I'm sorry but whichever way i dissect the list, i can't find any confidence in the current regime, nothing close to what you guys seem to have in it.
99
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by Lods -
Quote from: kruddler – on
Quote from: Lods – on


We didn't fall off a cliff.
But I'm not going to argue if you want to feel thats what happened.
We've been challenged the last two years and it proved a bit much
In 2023 we finished 5th but with a bit of luck and desperation we made it through to a prelim
In other words we played out of our skin but in the end we weren't good enough.
I suspect what happened then was there were areas identified that we needed to address and subsequent drafting has concentrated on those areas....speed, disposal, depth.

Were not going the full rebuild. We're just strengthening the foundations before we add the roof.
There is a reason the spine is called a spine in football. Its important piece that everything is built around.

We are rebuilding, but not with foundations. We are doing it with fluffy pillows, wallpaper and a change of curtains. The main structure is largely being ignored, and its only a matter of time until the cracks show through and the real issues can no longer be ignored.

Why does it have to be built that way?
Who made that rule?
It may be 'traditional' list building but who is to say its the only way

SOS built a spine but failed with the other bones, the heart, muscle

I'm sure Dean, O'Farrell, O'Keefe, Smith, Ison and others don't see themselves as fluffy pillows
100
Robert Heatley Stand / Pick our team in parts - Part 2a - Pick our 6th backman.
Last post by kruddler -
OK, so rather than reset the original poll, i thought it easier to start another one, so people are more likely to vote.

We only need 1. Assume everyone is fit.

Current team makeup is as follows.....
FB - Cowan - Weitering - Newman
HB - Saad - Haynes - xxxxxxxx
C - Walsh - Cripps - Smith
R - Pittonet - Hewett - Cerra
HF - Ainsworth - McKay - Hayward
FF - Williams - Kemp - Moir

Your 6th could be a flanker/small defender, or it could be a CHB allowing Haynes to play 3rd tall. Call it up to you.