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91
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by Lods -
Quote from: kruddler – on
Quote from: Lods – on


You're doing the 'one to one' thing again and you're talking the best of their ability
Charlie 'was' a Coleman medallist, he may yet be one again, but 2025 Charlie was nowhere near it.
Doc was cooked.
And 'Jack the Saint' struggles to put more than 2/3s of a season together.
TDK isn't even the best ruckman at St Kilda.
...and both the last two are going to miss big chunks of pre-season.

I'm not doing the one to one thing again, I'm doing out vs in.  4 positions we got worse, 2 positions we got better. I don't know why you guys fight against that so much. Overall team cohesion will magically get better based off of that to create a net win... that's an argument i disagree with.

Charlie before he did his knee may never have reached the heights he did. Charlie in 2025 was cooked. Didn't have a preseason. Played through injury. We refused to drop him and key him recover. A common theme with us.

I don't care if tdk is 2nd ruck at saints, he was first ruck with us. Arguments like that are said to diminish his importance rather than acknowledge his loss.

Playing devils advocate, if all these players are so bad, why did they get record contract/ trade offers? Perhaps it's more about you, than them?

If all the players we got in are so good, who did clubs push them out the door for a discounted price?

What I'm arguing with is that you are looking at the 'best' of these players and arguing what we've lost means we will slip further down the ladder.
But if Tom, Charlie and Jack, had played at that level (their best) for a whole season I'm pretty sure we would have finished better than eleventh.
Even 50-60 goals from Charlie would have made a difference.

TDK is a loss, but it's a loss of a certain type of ruckman and we still have Pittonet who shaded him in ruck work, and O'Keefe (who is a probably a better ruck forward) who will more than likely improve....and Reidy who was behind a couple of pretty good rucks at Freo but played some very good football at the WAFL level, to consider...so net loss for TDK not so much.

So we have to look at their 2025 output when deciding whether or not their loss is as significant as you claim.
We only have to replace their 2025 efforts to maintain our position or do better.

Now that's even before we consider the season losses of Newman, Kemp and Jagga.
Add the loss of O'Farrell when he was just starting to show the goods.
Then consider Harry and his issues...the distraction that was Elijah.

You can't see how we're going to be as good as 11th
I can't see how we're going to be worse.
So best we agree to disgree.
92
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 4 - 5 on the bench
Last post by Lods -
Quote from: kruddler – on
Everyone's team will be different. No point getting upset you can't fit one player in because another player has been picked.

This exercise gives some insight into potentially how the MC would pick a team. Or at least, should pick a team.

Get the blokes who are best at that position and pick guys on the bench that compliment the team you have.
Don't shoehorn 8 small forwards into the lineup because they are your favourites. Pick a team that's a team.

For mine, the bench players offer cover across a few positions.
So ollie players as he can cover HB and wing.
Motlop and Frankie plays as they can cover small forward and wing/mid
HOK plays as he can cover key forward and ruck.

And Lord plays as an extra midfielder.

I don't think we need Dean in the side when we have weiters and hof with haynes as backup already.... or young for that matter.

Id like to include carroll as well but Ollie being more versatile means he gets the spot.

There is no right/ wrong answer


That's true.
It's just a fun exercise. and we can't read a lot into the final team we pick.
Posters will go for favourites or a favourite 'type' of player.
We have no idea of the structure and game style we will play in 2026.
We have no idea of specific roles players will be asked to play.
We'll tend to judge on past form and players at their best and most effective...think Saad (will age catch up with him next year) especially with some emerging half back talent..
We'll tend to go with the familiar.
Players new to the club, or draftees, are relatively unknowns...even the Haywards, Aisnworths and Florents would only have had a passing scrutiny.

The team we end up with in this exercise may mirror the opening round side, it's very unlikely it will mirror the side for our 'wild card' match.  ;)  :D
93
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 4 - 5 on the bench
Last post by kruddler -
Everyone's team will be different. No point getting upset you can't fit one player in because another player has been picked.

This exercise gives some insight into potentially how the MC would pick a team. Or at least, should pick a team.

Get the blokes who are best at that position and pick guys on the bench that compliment the team you have.
Don't shoehorn 8 small forwards into the lineup because they are your favourites. Pick a team that's a team.

For mine, the bench players offer cover across a few positions.
So ollie players as he can cover HB and wing.
Motlop and Frankie plays as they can cover small forward and wing/mid
HOK plays as he can cover key forward and ruck.

And Lord plays as an extra midfielder.

I don't think we need Dean in the side when we have weiters and hof with haynes as backup already.... or young for that matter.

Id like to include carroll as well but Ollie being more versatile means he gets the spot.

There is no right/ wrong answer
94
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by kruddler -
Quote from: Lods – on
Quote from: kruddler – on


Its good that you point out that i was usually very positive, i am or at least was.
I find it amusing when people disagree with my opinions on the matter and say im just being negative, most are more negative than me.

re tdk...
A lot of people misunderstand me when it comes to him. Let me clarify.
1. I don't think he is worth the crazy money we offered him and certainly not what the saints offer him.
2. I think his ruckwork (hitouts) is average at best, pittonet destroys him in that area.
3. I think his around the ground work is good but far from elite. I did some comparisons to Pittonet in all the key areas tackles, clearances,  marks, disposals etc and they were very similar.
4. His consistency and his ability to stay out in the park is a weakness, see point 1.

That being said...
- His athletic ability is elite.
- His potential is elite.
- If it's 'his day' people can't stop him.
- I picked him as my starting ruck in all of the best 22s we did last year from preseason to the end.

So he is very much a loss. A lot of that loss is a loss on what he could be. Some of that is comparing to what we have instead, in not talking about Pittonet, but 2nd ruck... Reidy or HOK, who should also be a potential kpf we rely on.

So compare tdk to what we have in his place.
Compare a dual Coleman medallist to what we have in his place.
Compare inspirational AA and former (co) captain to what we have in his place
Compare Jack(of all trades) to what we have in his place.

In each area, we are now lacking by comparison. That's 4 best 22 players we have downgraded in the offseason.

Sure some players we got in MAY be an upgrade on other positions, but these positions are less important by comparison.
So yes our hff and fp may be better in 2026 (tbc) but nobody is saying our ff will be better.  Will the ins cover for the outs? I say no. Time will tell.

What i can't understand is the blind faith in current recruiters and list management team.
Each individual pick/player you can make a case for. But as a collective i think they are fixated on the wrong areas and have been for years. The sheer amount of small forwards we have recruited and continue to recruit bother me no end. The constant recruiting to fill a need, confirms their previous efforts have failed as it continues to be a need.

You're doing the 'one to one' thing again and you're talking the best of their ability
Charlie 'was' a Coleman medallist, he may yet be one again, but 2025 Charlie was nowhere near it.
Doc was cooked.
And 'Jack the Saint' struggles to put more than 2/3s of a season together.
TDK isn't even the best ruckman at St Kilda.
...and both the last two are going to miss big chunks of pre-season.

I'm not doing the one to one thing again, I'm doing out vs in.  4 positions we got worse, 2 positions we got better. I don't know why you guys fight against that so much. Overall team cohesion will magically get better based off of that to create a net win... that's an argument i disagree with.

Charlie before he did his knee may never have reached the heights he did. Charlie in 2025 was cooked. Didn't have a preseason. Played through injury. We refused to drop him and key him recover. A common theme with us.

I don't care if tdk is 2nd ruck at saints, he was first ruck with us. Arguments like that are said to diminish his importance rather than acknowledge his loss.

Playing devils advocate, if all these players are so bad, why did they get record contract/ trade offers? Perhaps it's more about you, than them?

If all the players we got in are so good, who did clubs push them out the door for a discounted price?
95
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: Name your team for Opening Round
Last post by DJC -
Quote from: Lods – on
Depth ;)  :D
I'm going to have a think about it (but I won't be leaving Lord out :D  )
He's my guy for 2026

I said in one of Kruddler's polls that Lord was definitely in my midfield rotations but I went for the untried Jagga Smith and the two "specialist" wingers in Acres and Hollands.  I suspect that Lord will be in the 23 more often than not.
97
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by Lods -
Quote from: shawny – on
What i find somewhat amusing is how so many of us fan opinions change dramatically once you form your own view as to how we are tracking as a club. All the 50/50s when your positive about our direction ‘are going to be great additions and upgrades’ and conversely when you’re not seeing it those same 50/50s are viewed as clear downgrades and negatives and the players we lost are based on their very best form as to what we lost.

And both sides can provide reasonable arguments why their view is more balanced then the other.

Its the same with politics.

Personally im ok with the changes as our hands were tied with all of the major ones but imo all things being equal more quality left then came in so im expecting 2026 to be a average year and a mid table finish. I think our next real chance is if the likes of Dean, campo bros, jagga and walker can all do what the ashcroft brothers did and explode on the scene all while the likes of cripps walsh weitering are all still in their peak.

Thats our hope imo to genuinely be a chance to snare a flag but we need 2-3 years before thats any chance of evenualating.

I think what you say is pretty right.
We adopt a position then everything, strengths and weaknesses of players, gets magnified through the lens of that particular bias.
I'm no means certain my optimism won't be shattered by a few injuries and a bit of bad luck...but gee we're overdue for a change in that aspect.
And in fact that's the key to my thinking.
If we can remain stable in terms of injury there is no reason why we should slip, even given the players we've lost.
Because their contribution to 2025 wasn't their elite form but a fraction of it due to injuries and perhaps as we may come to understand some significant turmoil in some of their off field lives that impacted on their decisions.

Perhaps a good activity for us all would be to take the opposite view to how we currently feel about 2026 and challenge ourselves to defend it with vigour...it might move the dial just a little bit towards the centre.
98
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: List Building - More than one way to skin a cat
Last post by shawny -
What i find somewhat amusing is how so many of us fan opinions change dramatically once you form your own view as to how we are tracking as a club. All the 50/50s when your positive about our direction ‘are going to be great additions and upgrades’ and conversely when you’re not seeing it those same 50/50s are viewed as clear downgrades and negatives and the players we lost are based on their very best form as to what we lost.

And both sides can provide reasonable arguments why their view is more balanced then the other.

Its the same with politics.

Personally im ok with the changes as our hands were tied with all of the major ones but imo all things being equal more quality left then came in so im expecting 2026 to be a average year and a mid table finish. I think our next real chance is if the likes of Dean, campo bros, jagga and walker can all do what the ashcroft brothers did and explode on the scene all while the likes of cripps walsh weitering are all still in their peak.

Thats our hope imo to genuinely be a chance to snare a flag but we need 2-3 years before thats any chance of evenualating.
99
Robert Heatley Stand / Name your team for Opening Round
Last post by DJC -
No polls, no votes, just name the 23 players you think will run out against the Fluffy Ducks.

While team structure is important, you don’t have to name players in positions but keep team balance in mind.

You can have 8 defenders, 8 forwards and 7 midfielders, or any other combination of 23 players.  Apart from Harry O’Farrell, assume that everyone on the list is available.  White and E Hollands aren’t on the list.

My 23 is:

Defenders - Weitering, Newman, Cowan, Florent, Haynes, Saad, Dean, L Young.

Midfielders - Cripps, Pittonet, Walsh, Hewett, Acres, Smith, Hollands

Forwards - McKay, Hayward, Williams, O’Keeffe, Kemp, Motlop, Moir

Emergencies - Lord, Cerra, Ainsworth

I thought that Lord and Cerra would be monties, but I just couldn’t fit them 🤔
100
Robert Heatley Stand / Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 4 - 5 on the bench
Last post by Thryleon -
Quote from: kruddler – on
Quote from: Thryleon – on
I've voted for the same player in multiple lines so not sure what this achieves.
I'm not sure what you are getting at.

Im assuming you are saying you've voted for... someone like Ollie Hollands as a midfielder and as a defender and he hasn't got enough votes to get into either starting position yet. So this is the perfect chance to vote for him again and fill out the bench with players that compliment the stating 18. Ideally someone who can fill multiple roles is perfect.

I don't see why that would be an issue though.
I had selected acres, hollands, florent, lord, motlop,  dean and skull as forwards defenders or mids.

Whilst I see where you're coming from to select 5 on the bench now is tough because jagga isnt near my best 23 even though he might be talented and good enough to be in it. 

Why? I've only seen highlights of him.  On exposed form id have lord in ahead of him.
Makes it hard to vote for players here