Sunday 10th July at 1310 hours at the MCG. Last year we scared the pants off this mob and were extremely unlucky to lose. Adelaide are playing better, but we are actually playing football.
Can we redraft Sauce and Eddie for this game, or ask them to sit this one out? :)
It will be interesting to see how Bolton reacts to the Collingwood game at selection.
I don't know how Jaksch played this weekend in the 2's but his defensive pressure can't be any worse than Everitt's. If we are going to push Levi up the ground more we must have a target who will go for marks inside the forward 50 plus we need to see if Jaksch is going to be a keeper going forward and if he'll do better with better quality ball coming his way.
Is Buckley going to come in for Byrne? I know it's not exactly like for like, but they have two very quick and skillful small forwards and we have no one capable of stopping them.
I have heard positive reports on Glass-McCasker, tempered by he is not ready yet, but why not give him a baptism of fire against a strong tall forward line, now we have a LTI.
Surely, surely we have to give a couple more of the NB boys a run for this game and continue to completely evaluate all players by seasons end. I would certainly look to be replacing Everitt and Levi for this one, as well as the forced replacement of Byrne (a real bummer for both him and the club!).
There must be a good story for Jacsh to play this week can't be a worse option than what was on the park last night. There are several months and some players careers are coming to an end , let's see who wants to play
Bolton needs to stick to his word and only use players in form. I would drop about four players from yesterday and overhaul the forward line...
F: Lamb Jaksch Silvagni
HF: Boekhorst Casboult Wright
Need to lose a ruckman, as having two of them never works for us as they offer us nothing when they're off thr ball. Pick a second key forward instead as`well as picking players that give us run.
Which 2nd key forward would you like to pick?
Jones who isn't the answer
Jaksch who many don't believe is the answer
...
McKay who hasn't played all year.
Walker isn't working as a potential key forward
Everitt ditto
Silvagni is given a chance but isn't
The cupboard is bare. All we have is a key forward who can't kick straight and other players who we just try and fit into the key forward role
I thought Phillips looked OK in the F50 - probably as good as anyone else we can field atm.
I am not looking forward to the next 4 weeks: Adelaide, West Coast, Sydney in Sydney and Hawthorn in Launceston. These could be seriously ugly unless we can find some more ways to score.
Yes it's a large hill to climb. Hopefully separate some who want to play or just go for the ride, there will be no where to hide.
It's really "experiment time" now.
Give those players who are "for the chop" a couple of games,
Get some more games into the young players (the ones that are fit ::))
Try players in other roles
Maybe give Weitering, Cripps (I reckon he's carrying an injury that probably wont get better this season) and a couple of others a week off
....and move up a few places in the draft order as a result ;)
Gowers(promoted) and in for Byrne....we looked soft and weak vs hackers like Greenwood and I want some bigger bodies helping Gibbs and Murphy when he returns....Cripps is being tagged and exploited on the outside and Bolton needs to change things up in the middle..
Jones in for Walker or Everitt and maybe Boekhorst in for some pace and run now we have Byrne out injured....
Sounds reasonable to me but I'd keep Walker but not ask him to play as a KPF.
I have been an Everitt supporter but, after watching him stand in the one spot for a good 60 seconds while the play went on 30-40 metres away, I'm inclined to give him a spell in the NBs.
Whiley might be worth another run too.
I've got a different mentality.
Don't give anyone anything.
There is only a couple of months left in the season.
If these guys can't force their way into contention we cut out ties and move on.
You either want it or you kind of want it.
The former types are the ones we want. The latter are not necessarily worth persevering with.
With you 100% here, 3 Leos. Though I understood the LODS logic, we only want blokes who deserve a senior spot. We want to continue building a culture of reward for excellence/attitude/intensity etc. No easy promotions. I don't give a rusty f*ck where we finish on the ladder, only that we continue to concentrate and focus on building a sustainable culture of high achievement.
I tend to agree Thry.
We've got a few blokes who are performing well in the NBs and it would be good to see them force their way into the 22. If it was up to me, Billy Gowers would be replacing Byrne.
During the short MM reign we've seen the damage to club culture that happens when blokes get a run when they don't deserve it.
No more, if you can't push your way into our broken down 1s then I'm afraid it's,
Hasta La Vista babe!(http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100729030223/simpsons/images/5/5f/Hastalavista-Abey.jpg)
200 games and Walker still doesn't have a position.
Currently without Armfield, Murphy and Boekhorst to choose from we lack run. Why not play Walker through the midfield?! Has the body and the endurance. Might teach him to play accountable football and stop trying to be a kangaroo!
It's a good idea, I like it.
I noticed him on the ball at times on Sat - not that he made a lot of difference.
I agree. We recruited him a a midfielder, he has the speed and tank to play there yet we have barely done it in 200 games. Might give him a new lease of life, you never know. We need mids for sure.
Jaksch has a had a good VFL season and surely deserves a shot. He's kicked 20 goals this season and that includes time in defence including games of 4,4,3 and 3 goals. No sure about anyone else but he gives me the impression he's at least ready for a shot. He's the one forward we have who will lead. Whether he's the answer or not, no guarantees I admit, time will tell, he's a key forward, who will take a man and take the pressure off Casboult. Casboult played much better when Jones was there as it allowed him to get up the ground and take marks. It's just a better structure. Casboult always plays better when he gets a run on the ball too. Problem with picking two ruckmen is they are dead useless when they are not on the ball. Defence won't take them seriously when they're resting they just go to Casboult.
Our ruckmen generally go to Cas as well.
Wouldnt bother with Walker in the middle....its over for us this season and I'd be more interested in seeing if Gowers can play as a mid for the future.....Walker would be out of my team this week and I wouldnt be rushing him back either unless he can light it up in the twos...
Unfortunately for AW, I must agree.
Yet last weekend Phillips was probably looking the 2nd most likely after White to score from a contested mark inside F50.
I think in another year or two Phillips will go OK, I suspect McKay if he delivers on expectations will pass Jaksch by quite rapidly. With C.Curnow also in the side and floating forward I cannot see a F50 spot for Jaksch unless we trade away Casboult.
Jaksch best bet for a long Carlton career may be as a replacement for Jammo!
I don't give a stuff who comes in, but someone has to come in and give Casboult a chop out. I could care less if it's Jaksch or Jones...but it has to be one of them.
Casboult is being used as the outlet marking option long from kick ins, or on the wing and we wonder why he's not taking grabs in front of goal or inside 50 like he was earlier in the season...the bloke cannot be expected to do everything, plus the oppo has worked out he's the only one over 190cm that needs to be manned up!
Make shifting it with medium forwards like Walker and Everett ain't working either. Junk time goals are papering over their enormous cracks.
And while we're at it...if the coaching staff aren't telling Tuohy to keep it more simple, then they're not doing their jobs. He's trying too much and it's not coming off. In fact, he's been terrible. First instruction should be to ban that play on, stat building kick out, which invariably results in the ball coming straight back in and costing us goals!
Agree with the first, but not so much with the second.
Cas can't be the only big body, particularly with the less than vigorous Everitt. Dre pulls out of contests and tackles.
2E hasn't been great (has been caught too often) but I still feel he's a bit of a victim of a team that isn't running or spreading enough or quickly enough. Sides that run well seem to all go at once whereas Zac takes off shouting"follow me boys!!!" and there's crickets. I don't think we are instinctive enough in that regard.
One of the things causing major problems regarding our mids is that of turnovers in our attacking half. All too often they push up the ground when we are in possession only to have to sprint all the way back when we turn it over. It's a huuge waste of energy and no wonder we are progressively exhausted as the game wears on. Notice it most in the last 10 mins of each Qtr and especially in the 4Q. In short we have to work far too hard covering errors.
Consequently the guys are too knackered to make options available for the likes of 2E and he can then get caught in multiple minds.
This has been going on for a very long time and was very noticeable v. the Pies (who were almost as bad). We just need several more really skilled players I'm afraid.
If we do the same v. the Crows then it could get ugly.
We should treat the last eight games as strictly development trying a few things......Boekhorst, Graham, Charlie, Jaksch, Gowers and hopefully Big H should play as many games as possible.
That made me laugh out loud :)) :))
Jaksch got a positive assessment from Fraser so he could be in with a chance.
Will be interesting with 9 games to go to see if there is a shift in selection thinking. No point have these player on the list if we don't give a few a chance in the last few rounds, some might sparkle in the higher league, better players around them .
x 2..Honeymoon is over and we need to cull some more deadwood, which means trying the untried before we cut them loose....
Agree. However, the critical area in this game will be the midfield IMO. If we can't do better than last game we'll get crushed irrespective of who we've got in the F50.
The honeymoon sure is over. A few weeks ago we were the flavour of the month (after 4 consecutive wins) and now we're on the nose again. Deservedly so. Apart from a few, many of our blokes seem to have lost that something extra... as Ross Lyon put it the other night, 'trying but not REALLY trying.' You can tolerate not having good enough cattle but the 3 games have been p1ss poor.
I agree with playing blokes from the NBs to see what they have but not the non-performers. No easy games. No promotions for the sake of it. We still must value senior selection and continue the 'culture build'.
You could mount a 'reasonable or better form case' for giving Jones another crack (couldn't do any worse than Casboult/Everitt), Jaksch (so we don't die wondering), Gowers, Buckley, Rainbow and Graham. Another go in the twos and Boekhorst should be ready to go and Gorringe and Den Den might be ready to return. When Charlie, Harry and Cuningham have had good twos time, give them a crack. And give SOJ a few games on the run. And let's think seriously about resting/dropping Casboult/Kreuz/Cripps (give those knees a rest), Everitt, Walker, Sumner... (I really like Sumner but he's looked r00ted recently).
I hope the coaching staff are making their own assessments along with SOS... in other words, but out Macca.
So last year we were a basket case, made heaps of changes, lost the first four(?) games this year, had a streak where we won a few - some wins were very ugly - all of a sudden finals were being talked about, the last 2-3 weeks have been back to the first four game standard and now we're talking honeymoons being over?
This to me says the worst that could have happened is to win those games, as expectation changed, a lot. The reality is that the situation that we were in at the start of the year is still that and we need to ensure we don't get in front of ourselves. There are still many issues with the list and they will take time to sort out. People want to see the kids given a chance in the seniors, but don't want to gift games - typically you get one or the other.
The tougher thing about being a supporter is that you don't know what is actually happening behind the scenes - what the coaches are looking for in players and their roles. This could explain why some get a game while others don't.
I think we will get beaten by a lot this week, which is probably what we would have said at the start of the year. It doesn't mean that improvement hasn't been made - there have been significant steps taken, but it is where our list/talent is.
I think the Saints game was a bit of a shock to our guys but I don't think they gave themselves a chance v the Giants. Beaten before we ran out.
Pies? We lost by two kicks. Murph plays and we win.
I reckon we might go ok this weekend.
A couple of quality mids would make a big improvement to us Cimm. Not saying we would be premiership material but we'd be a lot better.
Yep.
I think people will be surprised at just how much difference 2 more (quality) mids would make.
And a quality tall forward...
Actually it's not coincidence we started winning games, and eventually kicking alot more goals, when we picked a second key forward. First time was against Freo and we won 6 of our next 7.
I didn't know we had one, let alone two, who are these people and where have they been hiding?
Seriously though, when's Murphy going to play again?
We're buggered without him.
Jones is 4-1 this year. 4-0 with Levi playing.
We are 5-1 when Murphy's helmet is playing 2.
There is a dfference between correlation and causation.
It's no coincidence we're undefeated when we play 2 key forwards.
That's not even close to the same thing. You're much better than that kruddler.
Without doing a massive analysis I'd wager we scored more with two forwards but we may have also conceded more as well and that we are trying to get the balance right.
I look at us kicking much better scores too. Without 2 key forwards we couldn't score. 2 key forwards spread the defence a bit more.
We had Murphy on the team early in the year and couldn't kick a score. Things improved straight up soon as we picked a 2nd key forward. Small sample size, and we did play better, but that's how it has happened thus far at least. A second key forward improves you structurally. We suddenly looked like we could kick a goal.
Unlike the days of Fev, who could have 4 defenders hang off him and still near kick 100 goals, we don't have anyone who can do that. Casboult is a decent player, certainly, but definitely not that good that he can be the one out key forward against the numbers of a defence hanging off him. He'd be overwhelmed. After all he is a 3rd round rookie pick, not a first round national draft gun. Hence the need for a 2nd one to spread the defence.
Edit: Only just noticed you said Murphy's helmet...lol.
Armfield, Tutt, Buckley, Graham in for Bryne.
Extended bench is: Armfield, Buckley, Everitt, Graham, Sumner, Tutt, Walker.
Two rucks again. Our rucks are dead useless when they are off the ball. Krezuer goes from crape man when he shares ruck duties to superman when he gets to ruck on his own. We play best when we have one ruck and Casboult as both benefit immensely. Supporters see it but the club doesn't. Prefer one ruck and two key forwards rather than two rucks and one key forward trying to handle the weight of the opposition defence. Has to be better balance.
How Everitt gets to play before Jaksch right now is a mystery.
Looks like one of Walker and Everitt or possibly both will be left out. Can't say I'm surprised.
Its not trying to be the same thing.
It's showing that 2 things that might seem the same can not be realted at all.
So everitt no longer counts as a key forward.
Silvagni gave us more of an option as a full forward type than Jones did.
White offered us more as a leading forward than Jones has.
By all means, bring Jones in....but let me just say 'i told you so' now to save time later. He is NOT the answer.
Walker kicked 3 two weeks in a row prior to last week so could get a reprieve. Everitt is disapointing because he can kick straight but he has struck a blow in weeks (since the Geelong game) so he must go and find form inthe 2s. As many have said, I wanted to see Jones or KJ in but alas. Army in is a must, provides speed, grunt and effort. Graham will probably get a gig because of his form in the 2s but he is not the answer as he is too slow and we need more speed. Could be that Sumner will also be asked to have a spell in the 2s which means the final bench is:
Walker Army (Buckley or Tutt) Graham
Never be the answer in a fit but takes a man and keeps the opposition occupied spreading the defence a little more. Gives both a key forwards a better chance then of hitting the scoreboard, which happened. At least Jones hit the scoreboard and provided a contest. Did give something, or a least something better than he's given previously. Much better than having two ruckmen, both who are useless once off the ball. We were definitely a better side with two key forwards
My preference is for Jaksch as he is continually hitting the scoreboard in the VFL and is the one forward that will lead. Whether he'll be an answer one doesn't know but at least he's young and surely worth a go ahead of Everitt. I lived with Everitt while he was kicking goals but once they dried up there's nothing more to him. In the end we hope McKay is the answer but that's a while off so we use what we have.
Carlton
B: Lachie Plowman, Sam Rowe, Zach Tuohy.
HB: Kade Simpson, Jacob Weitering, Sam Docherty.
C: Jed Lamb, Patrick Cripps, Ed Curnow.
HF: Matthew Wright, Simon White, Dale Thomas.
F: Andrew Phillips, Levi Casboult, Jack Silvagni.
Foll: Matthew Kreuzer, Sam Kerridge, Bryce Gibbs.
Int: Dennis Armfield, Dylan Buckley, Andrejs Everitt, Nick Graham, Liam Sumner, Jason Tutt, Andrew Walker
I guess we've gone 'small' with the forecast looking pretty wet for Sunday. I think our forward line is not looking strong.
Adelaide Crows
B: Kyle Cheney, Daniel Talia, Jake Lever.
HB: Rory Laird, Kyle Hartigan, Brodie Smith.
C: David Mackay, Scott Thompson, Rory Sloane.
HF: Richard Douglas, Tom Lynch, Charlie Cameron.
F: Josh Jenkins, Taylor Walker, Eddie Betts.
Foll: Sam Jacobs, Brad Crouch, Matt Crouch.
Int: Paul Seedsman, Rory Atkins, Wayne Milera, Jarryd Lyons, Mitch McGovern, Ricky Henderson, Jake Kelly
Getting our hands on the pill is more important than leg speed.
We have to address why we are getting totally smashed at centre bounces and stoppages in general - it used to be our strength.
brisbane lions smashed us in the middle and many weeks later we are still trying to address it.Who is the ruck/ midfield coach?
Stoppages - John Barker
Midfield - Tim Clarke
Ruck - Mathew Capuano
Problem is one is a key position forward kicking goals in the VFL on a regular basis and would provide a proper target, taking the pressure off Levi, one is not a KP forward in the seniors doing nothing with very little workrate.
As far as two rucks go, it always hurts us. At some point you have to balance the side properly.
Cant afford to have Thompson, Sloane etc unmanned like we did with Pendlebury, Bolton has been poor with his tactics of recent weeks and needs to get his matchups right.
We had Stevens for Stkilda running onto tapouts with no one in front of him and vs Brisbane we had Rockliff racking up 40 plus possies....
Need to keep the game tight and punish the Crows on the rebound..Kruezer and Philips have to beat Jacobs and limit their forward entries as we wont be able to stop their multi pronged forward line
if the ball keeps going down there..
We need another mid like Graham to have a breakout game and get 30 plus possies like he does in the VFL...too much is left to Cripps in particular as well as Gibbs...
Well, only one change is Armfield coming in, with the other I/C players being Everitt, Walker and Sumner. A little surprising?
Everitt is the luckiest footballer going around at present...lucky that Curnow, McKay, Boekhorst -- to name a few -- are not ready yet. Sorry, but rewarding poor form with a senior berth is, well, poor form.
Well, I'll be going along tomorrow with pretty low expectations. I was looking at the Pies game as a benchmark as to where we currently stand and IMO it was a pretty good indicator. The usual suspects will again be in the team tomorrow and I have no reason to think things will play out any differently for us - I pray that they prove me wrong.
If this is the best 22 we can field and there is little pressure from the NBs for senior spots I can only conclude that we will see big changes in the list again for 2017.
Very thin in the 'cattle' department. I think the midfield really misses Murphy as evidenced by our poor clearance rate while he's been missing. Why the hell is Cripps jumping for tapouts!
Gifting games to guys who have obviously not met the standard required is worse.
I would think that supporters would give Bolts at least a season to implement his plan.
And that's exactly why Everitt is lucky. Those who should/will take his place aren't up to it yet, as he isn't.
The average fan doesn't know Everitt's role, the club are obviously happier with him than the fans.
I'm going along tomorrow, 100% win record for me this year (1/1) so I'm expecting another.
Go Blues.
Ditto. Going tomorrow and the last time I went we played the Pussycats. Let's keep that %!
Ditto.
Not sure this one will be 2/2, but spoke with big Levi today, who said if they can execute their system, they'll be a chance... No doubt that's what the players are told to say, but stranger things have happened.
Go Blues
Not too confident for this game and it may get very ugly. Hope the boys have a real crack and take some more steps forward. Go Baggers
Realistically not expecting a win, give the current status of both teams, a soild contested effort is what I hope we deliver.
I doubt the clubs instructions are to kick it to the opposition and avoid all physical contact and/or positive influence on a game.