Poll
Question:
Who should be captain?
Option 1: Marc Murphy
votes: 11
Option 2: Chris Judd
votes: 6
Option 3: Kade Simpson
votes: 34
Option 4: Andrew Carrazzo
votes: 3
Option 5: Other
votes: 11
Clearly the club made the wrong call on appointing Marc Murphy captain.
His on field performance has been well below average. From the outside it looks like he isn't a great motivator of his teammates. He has become an opposition target.
Pretty clear last night that Simpson is the spiritual leader on field and has a greater aura than Murphy.
Think we erred in letting Judd stand down. Malthouse should have taken a year to assess the leadership group.
Judd doesn't want it.
The remaining candidates are too old or have other issues. Only Hendo being the other option IMO but I'd like to see him get a year or two more good footy under his belt.
God knows what stripping him of the captaincy would do.
Unfortunately by Judd not wanting the gig anymore, it forced the Club's hands. Ideally I reckon they would've loved Juddy to have it for one more year, so that by year's end the Club would would have a much clearer picture of who would be the best fit for the role. Right now, Murphy is so far off that best fit, that I actually do feel some empathy for him, as I reckon the role has clearly affected his performances the entire season, as he struggles with the extra on-field attention & just the overall pressure of being the man we & the playing group look to for in regards to leadership & inspiration. When was the last time Murph was B.O.G....certainly hasn't occurred this year. As the year has rolled on, all the pre-season candidates for the role have dropped off a cliff - all except Simmo, who started the season as badly as I can remember, but right now stands head & shoulders above any other player in this team.
Murph won't have the captaincy taken from him, as there'd be too many negative repercussions for that to happen.....but I bet the club wishes it had it's time over again in regards to making that decision.
I think we all thought murphs was up to it last year.
But the the extra? Pressure he now has Has showed he can't handle it.
He's a nice guy o doubt about it, but we all know where they finish.
We need someone with passion, physicality, someone who gets angry e.g Hodge, Voss, Brown, Selwood, Kernahan, etc
We need a leader who will stand up & take control
At the moment he is a shadow of the player he was last year
Left field.....Zach!!!
besides the pressers would be a hoot. ;D
Been a disaster making Murphy captain and last night when Simpson addressed the players it was embarrassing IMO......
Murphy needs to hand the role over to another player and concentrate on his own game and being able to shake the best tagger each week.
With Judd declining we have only one A grade mid and that is Murphy and we need him firing...problem is without Judd both Murphy and Gibbs are less effective and our midfield lacks class.
Murphy wont be any good until we replace Judd with a player of equal ability and stature in the game or another couple of very good mids who can take the heat off him and they probably need to be the bigger 190cm type mids who can block for him and feed the ball out....
Left field.....Zach!!!
besides the pressers would be a hoot. ;D
Not as crazy as it sounds. He certainly doesn't give a backward step. Remember how he got in Selwood's face..I loved that.
Simpson for sure. His beard should be dipped in gold to preserve it too. Best leader on the field by a mile in our squad. Those who doubted him earlier this season should put their hands up to be shot. I just can't remember if I was one of them.
Voted for Hendo cos of his age over Simmo.
Simmo is our leader but for the long term, Hendo should be Capt.
Everyone is happy for the coach to adjust and make changes but Murph doesn't get the same generosity.
Ill back Micks judgement on this one, he's had some pretty good captains I the past.
its not that MMurphy is not a captains shoe laces - that's obvious
The concern is how it was arrived at the decision to select him
That's where they lost me
Everyone is happy for the coach to adjust and make changes but Murph doesn't get the same generosity.
Ill back Micks judgement on this one, he's had some pretty good captains I the past.
I'm not happy for the coach to need time to adjust and I think Murph has had plenty of time to do the things he needs to be doing out on the field to be a great leader without also needing time to adjust. Malthouse talks about growing into the role but doesn't that really relate to captains starting out at the age of 23-23? Murph is 26, will probably only be captain for 4 years, how long is he going to need to grow into the role?
its not that MMurphy is not a captains shoe laces - that's obvious
The concern is how it was arrived at the decision to select him
That's where they lost me
Marketing dept. He's photogenic and good for publicity. Not as silly a statement as you might interpret.
Murph is not as bad as we're making him out to be, though. He's carrying injuries (SO WHY THE F*CK IS HE PLAYING) which are lessening his on-field play and leadership. The bloke is a leader, but not
the leader. How can a new Senior Coach who has been at the club 17 minutes be influential in deciding the skipper... he wasn't, I would think. He was more likely influenced by c0ckheads and marketing... but, I repeat myself.
@PI2C
Sorry mate I should have used "everyone". My bad :-[
its not that MMurphy is not a captains shoe laces - that's obvious
The concern is how it was arrived at the decision to select him
That's where they lost me
Marketing dept. He's photogenic and good for publicity. Not as silly a statement as you might interpret.
Murph is not as bad as we're making him out to be, though. He's carrying injuries (SO WHY THE F*CK IS HE PLAYING) which are lessening his on-field play and leadership. The bloke is a leader, but not the leader. How can a new Senior Coach who has been at the club 17 minutes be influential in deciding the skipper... he wasn't, I would think. He was more likely influenced by c0ckheads and marketing... but, I repeat myself.
Yep..they wanted a marquee player as captain not an average joe like Carrazzo, Simpson or Duigan?...was Duigan ever a chance given the number of games he has played....average joes dont sell memberships or look good on TV footy panels unless they have working class support as in Nick Maxwells case.
If Malthouse was the one making the decision then has screwed up royally and the anti Malthouse league has my support on this one.....like to see Murphy abdicate from the throne at the end of the season..
its not that MMurphy is not a captains shoe laces - that's obvious
The concern is how it was arrived at the decision to select him
That's where they lost me
Marketing dept. He's photogenic and good for publicity. Not as silly a statement as you might interpret.
Murph is not as bad as we're making him out to be, though. He's carrying injuries (SO WHY THE F*CK IS HE PLAYING) which are lessening his on-field play and leadership. The bloke is a leader, but not the leader. How can a new Senior Coach who has been at the club 17 minutes be influential in deciding the skipper... he wasn't, I would think. He was more likely influenced by c0ckheads and marketing... but, I repeat myself.
Please Baggers Lol!! The coach was the one that put them through the process FFS. You either accept his decision or just say he got it wrong.
its not that MMurphy is not a captains shoe laces - that's obvious
The concern is how it was arrived at the decision to select him
That's where they lost me
Marketing dept. He's photogenic and good for publicity. Not as silly a statement as you might interpret.
Murph is not as bad as we're making him out to be, though. He's carrying injuries (SO WHY THE F*CK IS HE PLAYING) which are lessening his on-field play and leadership. The bloke is a leader, but not the leader. How can a new Senior Coach who has been at the club 17 minutes be influential in deciding the skipper... he wasn't, I would think. He was more likely influenced by c0ckheads and marketing... but, I repeat myself.
Please Baggers Lol!! The coach was the one that put them through the process FFS. You either accept his decision or just say he got it wrong.
Okay... he got it wrong, should have waited until the end of this year before deciding. Would you want to appoint a leader based on tapes and pre season training? No way... he was influenced and should not have co-operated and I bet he is learning this about so much of the information he was given about the playing list and others with management responsibilities within the club. The ineptitude within our club runs deep... very deep.
(IMHO Murph is in the leadership group... and plays as a small forward who go into the guts. Simmo is the Skipper... he is loud on the field and plays like winning everything).
Baggers I respect your confidence in Mick to change things up and make improvements and I hope like hell he can. But to make those improvements he needs to be the master. You can't say on one hand he is the master and on the other in this case the decision to appoint a captain he leaves to the marketing department or like. Pretty important position I reckon not one that should be made half a$red. If he doesn't have the mandate to make the team and club his then we are again wasting time and he will fail.
It was his call at the end of the day. If he got it wrong he has to fix it.
Baggers I respect your confidence in Mick to change things up and make improvements and I hope like hell he can. But to make those improvements he needs to be the master. You can't say on one hand he is the master and on the other in this case the decision to appoint a captain he leaves to the marketing department or like. Pretty important position I reckon not one that should be made half a$red. If he doesn't have the mandate to make the team and club his then we are again wasting time and he will fail.
It was his call at the end of the day. If he got it wrong he has to fix it.
Goatness... we are actually on the same page. I want (am optimistic) for MM to be the dude to make the ruthless changes neccessary; to be given the mandate to change our 'mediocre' culture with 'whatever it takes' (apart from the EFC way >:()..., because if he won't who will? NOw that is a scarry proposition. Who do you see at our club capable of creating ruthless change apart from MM? Too many flabby bums at the CFC.
Attn: Pratt Family... your money is being wasted. The Board and many senior managers at the (once) Mighty CFC are comfortable with their positions and deeply lack the passion and commitment to hurt for the cause... contributing, brilliantly to our impressive mediocrity. These pretenders like what your money buys them... cars, new furniture, holidays, home renovations...
We do not have anyone putting up their hands to do the hard stuff. The President won't.
Baggers I respect your confidence in Mick to change things up and make improvements and I hope like hell he can. But to make those improvements he needs to be the master. You can't say on one hand he is the master and on the other in this case the decision to appoint a captain he leaves to the marketing department or like. Pretty important position I reckon not one that should be made half a$red. If he doesn't have the mandate to make the team and club his then we are again wasting time and he will fail.
It was his call at the end of the day. If he got it wrong he has to fix it.
Goatness... we are actually on the same page. I want (am optimistic) for MM to be the dude to make the ruthless changes neccessary; to be given the mandate to change our 'mediocre' culture with 'whatever it takes' (apart from the EFC way >:()..., because if he won't who will? NOw that is a scarry proposition. Who do you see at our club capable of creating ruthless change apart from MM? Too many flabby bums at the CFC.
Attn: Pratt Family... your money is being wasted. The Board and many senior managers at the (once) Mighty CFC are comfortable with their positions and deeply lack the passion and commitment to hurt for the cause... contributing, brilliantly to our impressive mediocrity. These pretenders like what your money buys them... cars, new furniture, holidays, home renovations...
We do not have anyone putting up their hands to do the hard stuff. The President won't.
Yes and no. Yes, he needs to make changes. Yes, he needs a mandate and I believe he has it. What I'm disagreeing with you is that he has made the call on the captain, not based on what others "told" him to do. If he is listening to others then that will ultimately undermine his ability to make necessary changes as he will be or is easily being influenced by other (i.e if what you are saying is correct). That to me is a weak leader and I don't believe that is Mick's MO, if it is then he will fail.
In reference to who at the club can create ruthless change. I believe that needs to come from the board, in that they need to provide the mandate to Mick if they believe he has what it takes to make the football changes necessary for success. I don't believe Mick can change the club culture again, that is the board. Like it or not Mick wont achieve anything if the board does not support him. Here I think we can agree.
Henderson...
Im picking that Murph is probably captain material, and will prove everyone wrong.
Im picking that Murph is probably captain material, and will prove everyone wrong.
Agree!
Some posts sound like Richmond or Collingwood supporters eating their own..... ::)
Baggers I respect your confidence in Mick to change things up and make improvements and I hope like hell he can. But to make those improvements he needs to be the master. You can't say on one hand he is the master and on the other in this case the decision to appoint a captain he leaves to the marketing department or like. Pretty important position I reckon not one that should be made half a$red. If he doesn't have the mandate to make the team and club his then we are again wasting time and he will fail.
It was his call at the end of the day. If he got it wrong he has to fix it.
Goatness... we are actually on the same page. I want (am optimistic) for MM to be the dude to make the ruthless changes neccessary; to be given the mandate to change our 'mediocre' culture with 'whatever it takes' (apart from the EFC way >:()..., because if he won't who will? NOw that is a scarry proposition. Who do you see at our club capable of creating ruthless change apart from MM? Too many flabby bums at the CFC.
Attn: Pratt Family... your money is being wasted. The Board and many senior managers at the (once) Mighty CFC are comfortable with their positions and deeply lack the passion and commitment to hurt for the cause... contributing, brilliantly to our impressive mediocrity. These pretenders like what your money buys them... cars, new furniture, holidays, home renovations...
We do not have anyone putting up their hands to do the hard stuff. The President won't.
Yes and no. Yes, he needs to make changes. Yes, he needs a mandate and I believe he has it. What I'm disagreeing with you is that he has made the call on the captain, not based on what others "told" him to do. If he is listening to others then that will ultimately undermine his ability to make necessary changes as he will be or is easily being influenced by other (i.e if what you are saying is correct). That to me is a weak leader and I don't believe that is Mick's MO, if it is then he will fail.
In reference to who at the club can create ruthless change. I believe that needs to come from the board, in that they need to provide the mandate to Mick if they believe he has what it takes to make the football changes necessary for success. I don't believe Mick can change the club culture again, that is the board. Like it or not Mick wont achieve anything if the board does not support him. Here I think we can agree.
Important discussion, here, Goatness. (this is why I didn't like the 'karma'... folks could like/unlike and be done with it, but here we have an example of two passionate BlueBagger supporters going further than, like/dislike and discussing difference... which helps us all. Goatness has helped me think of other perspectives and I hope I've done likewise for him).
Does he ( MM) really have the mandate? God forbid, did we employ him to coach but also boost membership/loot?????? We are now using our brand to cash in on what was... because, now, that is all we have. And apart from MM, I do not see anyone else hurting at our club hurting - well, seriously, do you see any other off-field senior folks hurting? No. Why? Pratt loot in their pockets.
There was a time in our recent history when not making the finals was a ridiculous consideration; when finishing in the bottom 4 of the 8 was failure (or 3rd in a final four). Top two or three is our place. There are those of us lucky enough to remember those times... and that makes our hurt the greater when seeing the present day 'mediocre' display. We are a good, mediocre... well placed at 9th, or there abouts. Mm, maybe that's enough to make good money for the club?
Today we are a shadow of the former great CFC. And, like Prof E, I agree, it is time to realise that our (once great) club is consigned to mediocrity and failure; a vehicle for PR/marketing and players to 'cash in' on the brand. We'll burst to 5th and get lots of loot, then fall to 10th but cash in on potential. Maybe we have losers funding our club.
Im picking that Murph is probably captain material, and will prove everyone wrong.
Agree!
Some posts sound like Richmond or Collingwood supporters eating their own..... ::)
Fcuk me....here we go again.....we sound like Richmond supporters.....blah, blah, fcuking blah. You go to any Club's forum website after yet another crapful loss & tell me what you read - won't be any different to the plethora of posts on here, so excuse us for stating the bleeding obvious, even if you can't/refuse to see it.
ironically , that results graph looks like a fk u middle finger
The more disillusioned people become, the more I'll be backing Zach Touhy.
It just makes sense.
Im picking that Murph is probably captain material, and will prove everyone wrong.
On what basis?
Fundamentals of leadership:
Respect of your peers.
tickHard trainer.
tickRespect of football world.
Ability to turn a game.
Flies the flag for mates.
Won't be pushed around.
Sets an example on field.
Great tackler and 1%s.
Addresses teammates at breaks.
Anyone wishing to add to what they expect of a captain feel free that's just a brief outline from me in terms of what I expect and what boxes I think Murphy ticks.
Im picking that Murph is probably captain material, and will prove everyone wrong.
Agree!
Some posts sound like Richmond or Collingwood supporters eating their own..... ::)
Fcuk me....here we go again.....we sound like Richmond supporters.....blah, blah, fcuking blah. You go to any Club's forum website after yet another crapful loss & tell me what you read - won't be any different to the plethora of posts on here, so excuse us for stating the bleeding obvious, even if you can't/refuse to see it.
LMAO ADS banned multiple times for racist remarks pointing to others and comparing them with Collingwood! I've heard it all now!
Interesting that Simmo is leading the poll :o For the first half of the season a significant number of posters wanted him banished to the NBs.
I think Murphy has been OK and will improve with experience.
Interesting that Simmo is leading the poll :o For the first half of the season a significant number of posters wanted him banished to the NBs.
I think Murphy has been OK and will improve with experience.
I agree DJC. Seems to be the only requirement to be a good leader is that you are playing good football.
Heath Shaw, Pendlebury often address the players. Nick Maxwell is a great captain? Yet Simmo addressing the players reflects badly on Murphy's captaincy. Go figure.
Murphy has been a leader since his TAC cup days and will develop into a quality captain. His biggest problem at the moment is he is struggle on field.
No point trying to 'craft' Murphy (or Hendo/Kruezer for that matter) into a leader. Let's try a left field appointment similar to Sticks in '86. Charlie Dixon appeals as a charismatic warrior...capable of imposing himself in a variety of roles.
Roughead-like in stature and mobility, he has courage in bucketloads and a 10+ year career ahead of him.
Dixon would be the pillar to plug the Centre-half forward post, allowing Hendo to patrol the flanks exclusively. Is a proven goal kicker, has great hands and most importantly has the brilliance to split a game wide open. Gets the odd injury, but from what I've seen he recovers quickly asserts himself immediately on the scoresheet 'first up' on his return.
It's imperative that Carlton trades for a quality dominant marking target during the off-season, particularly given Casboult is not top shelf.
I'd like to see Mick get this guy in and size him up for the captaincy. He might not be affordable in a year or two when he becomes the focal point of the Suns finals aspirations.
Interesting that Simmo is leading the poll :o For the first half of the season a significant number of posters wanted him banished to the NBs.
I think Murphy has been OK and will improve with experience.
I agree DJC. Seems to be the only requirement to be a good leader is that you are playing good football.
Heath Shaw, Pendlebury often address the players. Nick Maxwell is a great captain? Yet Simmo addressing the players reflects badly on Murphy's captaincy. Go figure.
Murphy has been a leader since his TAC cup days and will develop into a quality captain. His biggest problem at the moment is he is struggle on field.
Maxwell is a premiership captain and respected much in the same way Tom Harley was....both just joe average players but able to talk to all groups in their respective club wether it be the A graders, battlers and kids and thats why they got the job.
We selected our captain in a farcical manner....leading Carrazzo along that he was going to get the job, including Duigan who can even get a game in the selection mix and then played a series of preseason games to see who did the job best after rotating between the three candidates....very professional...not.
Murphy got the job purely based on the fact he is considered the best marquee player at the club and would sell more memberships IMO...at Carlton we dont tend to give Joe average players the captains role....
Murphy may grow in to the role...but he has a lot of growing to day as he isnt close at the moment IMO...
His opposite number in Watson despite the situation at Essendon, booing from the crowd, rallied his players and was an effective player himself and Murphy has to do more as a leader and cope with tagging like the other star players/captains do...
Murphy has been a leader since his TAC cup days and will develop into a quality captain. His biggest problem at the moment is he is struggle on field.
How long will it take him to develop into a quality captain. He hasn't got that much time.
Interesting that Simmo is leading the poll :o For the first half of the season a significant number of posters wanted him banished to the NBs.
I think Murphy has been OK and will improve with experience.
I agree DJC. Seems to be the only requirement to be a good leader is that you are playing good football.
Heath Shaw, Pendlebury often address the players. Nick Maxwell is a great captain? Yet Simmo addressing the players reflects badly on Murphy's captaincy. Go figure.
Murphy has been a leader since his TAC cup days and will develop into a quality captain. His biggest problem at the moment is he is struggle on field.
Maxwell is a premiership captain and respected much in the same way Tom Harley was....both just joe average players but able to talk to all groups in their respective club wether it be the A graders, battlers and kids and thats why they got the job.
We selected our captain in a farcical manner....leading Carrazzo along that he was going to get the job, including Duigan who can even get a game in the selection mix and then played a series of preseason games to see who did the job best after rotating between the three candidates....very professional...not.
Murphy got the job purely based on the fact he is considered the best marquee player at the club and would sell more memberships IMO...at Carlton we dont tend to give Joe average players the captains role....
Murphy may grow in to the role...but he has a lot of growing to day as he isnt close at the moment IMO...
His opposite number in Watson despite the situation at Essendon, booing from the crowd, rallied his players and was an effective player himself and Murphy has to do more as a leader and cope with tagging like the other star players/captains do...
Gee that's bullcrap EB. So much assumption and so much disrespect to Murphy and even Malthouse it's not funny.
To suggest that we give a bloke a million bucks a year to coach the club and turn it around and when he rocks up we say "the marketing team have picked Murphy as Captain" and then Malthouse says "ok, that's fine". I mean give it the sniff test. Mick the grumpiest, stubbornest old bastard you have ever seen and he is going to cop that??? Are we serious? It just doesn't happen.
So this.
"Murphy got the job purely based on the fact he is considered the best marquee player at the club"
Is Rubbish. So don't suggest it's fact. At best it's a theory.
At the beginning of the year I was backing Carrots, but now that Murphy has the gig I'll back him in.
A bit more support from the leadership group and other senior players might help him a bit. Simpson has played great footy lately but there still seems to be a general lack of leadership within the whole playing group and IMO 6,7,8,10 players need to stand up and get behind Murphy and give him a bit of a hand.
"Murphy got the job purely based on the fact he is considered the best marquee player at the club"
Is Rubbish. So don't suggest it's fact. At best it's a theory.
Why did he get the job then? Because he's the most talented player?
I reckon in hindsight ( it's a wonderful thing ) that Judd should have stayed on for one more season.
@Shakin
It's in Carlton's culture to pick their best player as captain. Pagan even stated as such.
To a lot of us, Murphy didn't seem like the best choice of captain from the outside and Murphy himself said he had a lot to do with regards to making his presence felt off the field (see his presser, I can't find you quotes ATM).
He isn't a total failure infront of a crowd for sponsorship gigs and the like but he isn't top notch, probably worse than average TBH.
I think Malthouse had a huge say in the selection. I don't for a second believe he is so unprofessional that he wouldn't form his own opinion but go exclusively with what others tell him.
It's more likely that he saw Murphy's achievements, was aware of his short-comings and believed he could work with him along with Simmo, Carrots and Judd to make up for those short-comings. I don't think he was ever going to be the best short-term option.
Now whether he is an old fool who had over-estimated his abilities, time will tell.
No point trying to 'craft' Murphy (or Hendo/Kruezer for that matter) into a leader. Let's try a left field appointment similar to Sticks in '86. Charlie Dixon appeals as a charismatic warrior...capable of imposing himself in a variety of roles.
Roughead-like in stature and mobility, he has courage in bucketloads and a 10+ year career ahead of him.
Dixon would be the pillar to plug the Centre-half forward post, allowing Hendo to patrol the flanks exclusively. Is a proven goal kicker, has great hands and most importantly has the brilliance to split a game wide open. Gets the odd injury, but from what I've seen he recovers quickly asserts himself immediately on the scoresheet 'first up' on his return.
It's imperative that Carlton trades for a quality dominant marking target during the off-season, particularly given Casboult is not top shelf.
I'd like to see Mick get this guy in and size him up for the captaincy. He might not be affordable in a year or two when he becomes the focal point of the Suns finals aspirations.
Great suggestion.
I was torn between Henderson and Simpson.
@Shakin
It's in Carlton's culture to pick their best player as captain. Pagan even stated as such.
Not sure about this. From my memory the playing list vote and then the Coach has the final say.
It may well be the best player and this may well because they share the attributes of a good captain. I don't think Fevola would have ever been made captain.
To a lot of us, Murphy didn't seem like the best choice of captain from the outside and Murphy himself said he had a lot to do with regards to making his presence felt off the field (see his presser, I can't find you quotes ATM).
Great point. From the outside. 2 hours of football a weekend and a couple of pressers and we make judgements of his leadership? If Murphy was getting 30 touches a game no one would give a stuffed about making his presence felt. Just like Robert Harvey used to do. At the moment he can't gut run. The sooner he gets he knee operated on the better.
He isn't a total failure infront of a crowd for sponsorship gigs and the like but he isn't top notch, probably worse than average TBH.
Don't need to be captain to do any of this. Judd, Gibbs have been doing this since they got to the club.
I think Malthouse had a huge say in the selection. I don't for a second believe he is so unprofessional that he wouldn't form his own opinion but go exclusively with what others tell him.
Agree.
It's more likely that he saw Murphy's achievements, was aware of his short-comings and believed he could work with him along with Simmo, Carrots and Judd to make up for those short-comings. I don't think he was ever going to be the best short-term option.
Or, maybe he thought that he would be a good leader and would grow into the role? Just a thought.
Now whether he is an old fool who had over-estimated his abilities, time will tell.
He has picked some pretty good captains in the past. However this time I reckon he had a limited field.
I'll stick with Murphy.
Judd, Simpson and Carrazzo are past their Use By Date. Carrazzo and Judd already show signs of old man injuries. The idea of replacing Murphy with a 30 year old suggests some immediate short term hope for success, but I will go with a longer term outlook.
In my opinion Henderson is a bit of an introvert, he will go backwards if he is given the front of house job. He spends more time hiding from the media than wanting to talk to it and Simpson is similar.
The club captain isn't just about on field stuff anymore, you are an integral part of bringing in, dealing with and attracting sponsors. There is nobody else at CFC that is as good a long term choice as Murphy.
we havent had a good captain at the club since whitnall
Im picking that Murph is probably captain material, and will prove everyone wrong.
On what basis?
Fundamentals of leadership:
Respect of your peers. tick
Hard trainer. tick
Respect of football world. Gets the number one tag every week = tick
Ability to turn a game. Has had this up until this year, however now he is getting the best tag rather than second best and has not been anywhere near his best form, yet still has shown that ability even if it was earlier this year= tick
Flies the flag for mates. - I can't agree with this. Flying the flag is chest thumping for morons and is the exact sort of reaction that the antagonists want.
Won't be pushed around. - When the going gets tough, make the tough harder. He can work through a tag, just not at the moment, and his running capability has not been there all season which makes it hard for him to "not be pushed around" when it comes down to it, he can beat a tag. I would tick this you wouldnt. tick
Sets an example on field. He can and does. You said it yourself, burrowed in trying to win some clearances and has gone out there within 2 weeks after fracturing a cheek bone and carrying a leg injury. If he was a Bomber he would be "s0 Brave" tick
Great tackler and 1%s. tick - Earlier this season he led the stat for tackles on field until he hurt his leg. I posted this for you in another topic.
Addresses teammates at breaks. tick - Ive seen him do it alot this season, sometimes someone else gets a chance to talk its part of the parcel of leadership. Knowing when to let someone else have a say
Anyone wishing to add to what they expect of a captain feel free that's just a brief outline from me in terms of what I expect and what boxes I think Murphy ticks.
On the basis that captaincy has little to do with ticking boxes.
The relationships and the framework at the club are all in place, and need to be understood and respected. Murphy may be the best person at the club in the playing group for the job, but from the outside looking in, we wouldnt know.
Captaining a side means being vocal in the task, and not necessarily speaking well in the public forum. If he can help direct the troops on the park, then what does it matter whether or not he interviews well "on the couch".
Im backing our boy in to grow into the role.
Personally, I want all our boys to become leaders. We all look for this charismatic, big brother figure of a captain who would decimate all in front of him, but in reality, few are built like that. Realistically speaking the capacity to be a leader has less to do with attributes and more to do with character. It cant be explained, but it can be nurtured and taught. The willingness to accept responsibility, not only for your short comings, but for your teamates short comings, and the willingness to sacrifice yourself, your time and your energy in order to help them grow as people and footballers. We cannot measure this through any amount of public speaking. The stirring speeches, the tone of voice, all of it can be taught, memorised and then delivered by almost anyone. Often the difference between delivering well and poorly is confidence. Confidence in your message. Fev was like this, he was a natural leader, but he lacked the ethics to do the job for the good of anyone but himself, and this made him a poor leader. His leadership skills though, were good. After all, many got lead a stray whilst he was at the club.
How to earn the Crowley taghttp://www.fremantlefc.com.au/news/2013-08-13/how-to-earn-the-crowley-tag
Ryan Crowley has put his famous clamps on a number of AFL midfielders this season, but is there a direct correlation between the player Ross Lyon chooses to send his star tagger to and a key performance indicator?
Looking back through Crowley’s opponents this season, an argument can be made that Ross Lyon identifies midfielders who present the greatest danger entering their side’s attacking 50m zone as Crowley’s target.
Carlton’s Marc Murphy was kept well in check in round 19. He had the highest retain percentage and score success rate entering 50 out of Blues’ midfielders this season.
Put more simply, the Carlton captain finds his teammates with his kicks inside 50 more than the other Blues’ on-ballers, leading to scoreboard impact.
Thought this was interesting.
I reckon in hindsight ( it's a wonderful thing ) that Judd should have stayed on for one more season.
You can blame the AFL for that. After it tore up the VISY deal , Juddy said
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk285/aprildeb08/funny-pictures-up-yours-0tV.jpg)
Interesting that Simmo is leading the poll :o For the first half of the season a significant number of posters wanted him banished to the NBs.
I think Murphy has been OK and will improve with experience.
I agree DJC. Seems to be the only requirement to be a good leader is that you are playing good football.
Heath Shaw, Pendlebury often address the players. Nick Maxwell is a great captain? Yet Simmo addressing the players reflects badly on Murphy's captaincy. Go figure.
Murphy has been a leader since his TAC cup days and will develop into a quality captain. His biggest problem at the moment is he is struggle on field.
Maxwell is a premiership captain and respected much in the same way Tom Harley was....both just joe average players but able to talk to all groups in their respective club wether it be the A graders, battlers and kids and thats why they got the job.
We selected our captain in a farcical manner....leading Carrazzo along that he was going to get the job, including Duigan who can even get a game in the selection mix and then played a series of preseason games to see who did the job best after rotating between the three candidates....very professional...not.
Murphy got the job purely based on the fact he is considered the best marquee player at the club and would sell more memberships IMO...at Carlton we dont tend to give Joe average players the captains role....
Murphy may grow in to the role...but he has a lot of growing to day as he isnt close at the moment IMO...
His opposite number in Watson despite the situation at Essendon, booing from the crowd, rallied his players and was an effective player himself and Murphy has to do more as a leader and cope with tagging like the other star players/captains do...
Gee that's bullcrap EB. So much assumption and so much disrespect to Murphy and even Malthouse it's not funny.
To suggest that we give a bloke a million bucks a year to coach the club and turn it around and when he rocks up we say "the marketing team have picked Murphy as Captain" and then Malthouse says "ok, that's fine". I mean give it the sniff test. Mick the grumpiest, stubbornest old bastard you have ever seen and he is going to cop that??? Are we serious? It just doesn't happen.
So this.
"Murphy got the job purely based on the fact he is considered the best marquee player at the club"
Is Rubbish. So don't suggest it's fact. At best it's a theory.
You say that Maxwell isnt a good captain yet is Murphy is.....based on what?...your dislike of Maxwell?
You think that masquerade of testing captains was the right way to go about picking the right man.???....including Duigan a player who cant get a game, so Duigan was captain material according to Malthouse but now isnt seen as good enough to get a game.....reason that for me?.....and dont give me some weak answer like you did about Simpson addressing the players instead of Murphy....that was a bad look for all to see and you know it....
I dont remember Malthouse road testing captains in the NAB cup before he picked Maxwell either...
The way we picked the captain was unprofessional and amateurish if you can believe that road testing of captains was genuine( I dont) and if Malthouse presided over that piece of work then maybe Carrots is right and he isnt the man for the job......and yeah thats my theory.
Good luck to Marc Murphy but dont expect the speculation about his ability to do the job to dissapear....
My ideal model of a captain would be Hodge. He's tough, he can dish it out when he wants to, he's talented, he performs well in the media and most of all his on field deeds inspire his team and its supporters.
There you go Marc, model yourself on him.
My ideal model of a captain would be Hodge. He's tough, he can dish it out when he wants to, he's talented, he performs well in the media and most of all his on field deeds inspire his team and its supporters.
There you go Marc, model yourself on him.
Yet Hodge wasn't Hawthorn's first choice!
My ideal model of a captain would be Hodge. He's tough, he can dish it out when he wants to, he's talented, he performs well in the media and most of all his on field deeds inspire his team and its supporters.
There you go Marc, model yourself on him.
Yet Hodge wasn't Hawthorn's first choice!
I know - amazing! Wasn't it Sam Mitchell and the players sort of strongly hinted that Hodge was "their choice" and so he got the gig eventually. Maybe a lesson there for us?
............he got the gig eventually. Maybe a lesson there for us?
We have nobody in the right age bracket or in the same category as a Hodge, except Judd and he has retired from the gig as will Hodge soon. So why would we even be considering this as there is no possible answer!
You don't have an introvert leading a group of introverts. Mitchell and Hodge are both extroverted.
And now Murph comes out and says that the boys are going to put in a big effort this w/e as they owe the supporters that!! So that's how it goes, eh... put in a shocker, then try harder for the supporters. What a load of goat sh1t. That's not leadership... that placating rubbish. They owe it to themselves and their team mates first and foremost to do better. Then their coaches. Don't butter us up FFS.
............he got the gig eventually. Maybe a lesson there for us?
We have nobody in the right age bracket or in the same category as a Hodge, except Judd and he has retired from the gig as will Hodge soon. So why would we even be considering this as there is no possible answer!
Because, as I said before, he is the type we need to find, not him personally or anyone of his particular age, but someone with his attributes. If such a person is not at the club already then we should be on the look out for such, who could possibly take over eventually, after MM. You know, try planning ahead for once?
What this whole discussion boils down to is this:
Marc Murphy is having an absolute shocker of a season.
If he'd played to the level we had all come to expect, there would be no discussions about whether or not he was up to the job of being captain of the club. We'd all be satisfied that he was leading by example, even if he wasn't the physical presence many here are now calling for.
Now, you could also ask the question as to whether or not the mantle of captaincy has been the predominant factor in the massive form slump he's gone through this season, you could blame the injury-interrupted preseason he went through or you could blame it on the fact that he is now attracting the most opposition attention due to Judd no longer being the player he once was.
Many here are blaming it on the captaincy without considering the myriad of other factors involved in form slumps, when the truth is that it is most likely a combination of everything that has happened.
Carrazzo has had a shocking season too and, up until Simmo's heroics on Saturday night, he was the name most bandied about as the player who should be captain.
Honestly, I don't think the pressure of the captaincy has had much if anything to do with Murphy's shocking season. Honestly, I don't think being the captain of a football club is any sort of chore on the field as you have 17 other mates out there with you at any given time and every single one of them should be providing leadership in different situations and of differing degrees. Yes, there are media responsibilities that go with being captain but they have no impact on what you do when you're out there playing. You just go out there, be yourself, and play football.
It's Murphy's standard of football this season that we should all be questioning, not his captaincy because being named captain of a football side is more of an honour than anything else.
You say that Maxwell isnt a good captain yet is Murphy is.....based on what?...your dislike of Maxwell?
You think that masquerade of testing captains was the right way to go about picking the right man.???....including Duigan a player who cant get a game, so Duigan was captain material according to Malthouse but now isnt seen as good enough to get a game.....reason that for me?.....and dont give me some weak answer like you did about Simpson addressing the players instead of Murphy....that was a bad look for all to see and you know it....
I dont remember Malthouse road testing captains in the NAB cup before he picked Maxwell either...
The way we picked the captain was unprofessional and amateurish if you can believe that road testing of captains was genuine( I dont) and if Malthouse presided over that piece of work then maybe Carrots is right and he isnt the man for the job......and yeah thats my theory.
Good luck to Marc Murphy but dont expect the speculation about his ability to do the job to dissapear....
I think Maxwell is a fine captain. I you have miss my point.
Collingwood getting spanked and Heath Shaw pulls in the players and give them a blast with Maxwell right behind him.
At Carlton Simpson addresses the players.
Yet we applaud Maxwell and criticise Murphy? People are trying too hard to find things wrong with Murph.
Simpson a player in the leadership group is such a non issue and it happens in all the big clubs. Leadership isn't just the role of the Captain. Luke Hodge showed a stack when he wasn't the captain.
You say that Maxwell isnt a good captain yet is Murphy is.....based on what?...your dislike of Maxwell?
You think that masquerade of testing captains was the right way to go about picking the right man.???....including Duigan a player who cant get a game, so Duigan was captain material according to Malthouse but now isnt seen as good enough to get a game.....reason that for me?.....and dont give me some weak answer like you did about Simpson addressing the players instead of Murphy....that was a bad look for all to see and you know it....
I dont remember Malthouse road testing captains in the NAB cup before he picked Maxwell either...
The way we picked the captain was unprofessional and amateurish if you can believe that road testing of captains was genuine( I dont) and if Malthouse presided over that piece of work then maybe Carrots is right and he isnt the man for the job......and yeah thats my theory.
Good luck to Marc Murphy but dont expect the speculation about his ability to do the job to dissapear....
I think Maxwell is a fine captain. I you have miss my point.
Collingwood getting spanked and Heath Shaw pulls in the players and give them a blast with Maxwell right behind him.
At Carlton Simpson address the players.
Yet we applaud Maxwell and criticism Murphy? People are trying too hard to find things wrong with Murph.
Simpson a player in the leadership group is such a non issue and it happens in all the big clubs. Leadership isn't just the role of the Captain. Luke Hodge showed a stack when he wasn't the captain.
people only do that in the absence of finding anything right
The problem with the Murphy appointment is that it was made by MM after the pre-season if what was reported at the time is correct. So if MM with all his time in footy thought he was the best leader at the club (besides Judd) we really need a clean out to bring in the type of characters who will drive this club.
You say that Maxwell isnt a good captain yet is Murphy is.....based on what?...your dislike of Maxwell?
You think that masquerade of testing captains was the right way to go about picking the right man.???....including Duigan a player who cant get a game, so Duigan was captain material according to Malthouse but now isnt seen as good enough to get a game.....reason that for me?.....and dont give me some weak answer like you did about Simpson addressing the players instead of Murphy....that was a bad look for all to see and you know it....
I dont remember Malthouse road testing captains in the NAB cup before he picked Maxwell either...
The way we picked the captain was unprofessional and amateurish if you can believe that road testing of captains was genuine( I dont) and if Malthouse presided over that piece of work then maybe Carrots is right and he isnt the man for the job......and yeah thats my theory.
Good luck to Marc Murphy but dont expect the speculation about his ability to do the job to dissapear....
I think Maxwell is a fine captain. I you have miss my point.
Collingwood getting spanked and Heath Shaw pulls in the players and give them a blast with Maxwell right behind him.
At Carlton Simpson address the players.
Yet we applaud Maxwell and criticism Murphy? People are trying too hard to find things wrong with Murph.
Simpson a player in the leadership group is such a non issue and it happens in all the big clubs. Leadership isn't just the role of the Captain. Luke Hodge showed a stack when he wasn't the captain.
people only do that in the absence of finding anything right
What does he do in that 2 hours a week that makes you think he is a poor captain?
Other than struggling with form and not leading by example by playing good football.
Also what does he do in the other 166 hours of the week that makes you think he is a poor leader?
We already have the reason he is struggling on the field. Can't train and gets his knee drained. I dare say if he wasn't captain he wouldn't be playing each week.
You say that Maxwell isnt a good captain yet is Murphy is.....based on what?...your dislike of Maxwell?
You think that masquerade of testing captains was the right way to go about picking the right man.???....including Duigan a player who cant get a game, so Duigan was captain material according to Malthouse but now isnt seen as good enough to get a game.....reason that for me?.....and dont give me some weak answer like you did about Simpson addressing the players instead of Murphy....that was a bad look for all to see and you know it....
I dont remember Malthouse road testing captains in the NAB cup before he picked Maxwell either...
The way we picked the captain was unprofessional and amateurish if you can believe that road testing of captains was genuine( I dont) and if Malthouse presided over that piece of work then maybe Carrots is right and he isnt the man for the job......and yeah thats my theory.
Good luck to Marc Murphy but dont expect the speculation about his ability to do the job to dissapear....
I think Maxwell is a fine captain. I you have miss my point.
Collingwood getting spanked and Heath Shaw pulls in the players and give them a blast with Maxwell right behind him.
At Carlton Simpson address the players.
Yet we applaud Maxwell and criticism Murphy? People are trying too hard to find things wrong with Murph.
Simpson a player in the leadership group is such a non issue and it happens in all the big clubs. Leadership isn't just the role of the Captain. Luke Hodge showed a stack when he wasn't the captain.
Shakin...,Whas in your opinion makes Marc Murphy a better captain than Carrazzo or Simpson.......what sets him apart from these two.
I want to know what I am missing?
You say that Maxwell isnt a good captain yet is Murphy is.....based on what?...your dislike of Maxwell?
You think that masquerade of testing captains was the right way to go about picking the right man.???....including Duigan a player who cant get a game, so Duigan was captain material according to Malthouse but now isnt seen as good enough to get a game.....reason that for me?.....and dont give me some weak answer like you did about Simpson addressing the players instead of Murphy....that was a bad look for all to see and you know it....
I dont remember Malthouse road testing captains in the NAB cup before he picked Maxwell either...
The way we picked the captain was unprofessional and amateurish if you can believe that road testing of captains was genuine( I dont) and if Malthouse presided over that piece of work then maybe Carrots is right and he isnt the man for the job......and yeah thats my theory.
Good luck to Marc Murphy but dont expect the speculation about his ability to do the job to dissapear....
I think Maxwell is a fine captain. I you have miss my point.
Collingwood getting spanked and Heath Shaw pulls in the players and give them a blast with Maxwell right behind him.
At Carlton Simpson address the players.
Yet we applaud Maxwell and criticism Murphy? People are trying too hard to find things wrong with Murph.
Simpson a player in the leadership group is such a non issue and it happens in all the big clubs. Leadership isn't just the role of the Captain. Luke Hodge showed a stack when he wasn't the captain.
Shakin...,Whas in your opinion makes Marc Murphy a better captain than Carrazzo or Simpson.......what sets him apart from these two.
I want to know what I am missing?
Timing.
If it were 2 years ago, Carrazzo might have gotten the gig, but he is too advanced in age this year to get it.
Simpson is a better age for it today, but 2 years ago, he would have been age for it than Murphy.
Honestly? We dont know about the stuff off the field that makes Murphy better or worse than the others, but for mine, its simply timing. Play devils advocate and give it to the others, and then think about that decision and how it affects us moving forward from TODAY.
Carrazzo would be 30 in December. This season has been a shocker for him, and many would argue the captaincy caused it.
Simpson is 30 in May next season, and many would say that the captaincy defined him after his second half of the season... HOWEVER would the captaincy have changed how his season panned out at all? Example, Murphy not captain, goes down injured, and then gets ruled unfit to play and has time off. Does Simpson then not get more of a defensive forward sitting on him and then keep him quiet?
We have appointed two 30 year old captains, and the rumours about the relinquishing captaincy begin.
Marc Murphy at age 25, made more sense. He is single so doesnt have a lot of distractions outside of football, and inside of football performs to a high standard (usually) and has done a mini apprenticeship last season for 4 matches in the absence of Simpson and Carrazzo (somewhat). He takes this year (in which he turns 26) to learn how to cope with it, and next year will turn 27 and grow into the role. He will be 28 the following year and probably about to hit his peak and has a couple of years to have grown into the captaincy.
Honestly speaking to me it seems common sense to look at Marc Murphy. The fact that through his career he has been a good contributer most of the time simply helped. This is not necessarily true of Simpson, and we already went over the Carrazzo situation. Keep in mind his triplets which would have played some factor.
Shakin...,Whas in your opinion makes Marc Murphy a better captain than Carrazzo or Simpson.......what sets him apart from these two.
I want to know what I am missing?
Honestly. I have no idea. I am just not in a position to make that judgement.
Leadership can be so many things and a lot we wouldn't be privy to unless we work with, or are up close to Murphy, Carrazzo or Simpson on a daily basis. So much out of match day.
I try and relate to the leaders I have had in my career and often it's the little things.
Eg: Young player struggling with life in Melbourne and the captain takes him out for a coffee and chat. Tells him to stick at and it will get better. Another player hitting the turps a little too much. Setting a example at training, working with the younger players at training. Getting the lads together.
However must people get caught up on that 240 mins of the week and how a captain performs on the ground. And Nathbear nailed it 100%. It all comes down to performance.
Honestly, I don't think the pressure of the captaincy has had much if anything to do with Murphy's shocking season. Honestly, I don't think being the captain of a football club is any sort of chore on the field as you have 17 other mates out there with you at any given time and every single one of them should be providing leadership in different situations and of differing degrees. Yes, there are media responsibilities that go with being captain but they have no impact on what you do when you're out there playing. You just go out there, be yourself, and play football.
It's Murphy's standard of football this season that we should all be questioning, not his captaincy because being named captain of a football side is more of an honour than anything else.
Simpson and Carrazzo can do everything that a captain does on field. Why can't they show leadership? Just like the Swans senior core?
All senior players should and can how on field leadership.
What this whole discussion boils down to is this:
Marc Murphy is having an absolute shocker of a season.
If he'd played to the level we had all come to expect, there would be no discussions about whether or not he was up to the job of being captain of the club. We'd all be satisfied that he was leading by example, even if he wasn't the physical presence many here are now calling for.
It's Murphy's standard of football this season that we should all be questioning, not his captaincy because being named captain of a football side is more of an honour than anything else.
I agree, well said.
i want to know why Murphy is playing is he has a bad knee, which will get a clean up at season's end, that has allowed him to train only once a week since the start of the season. Didn't know that until today.
If he's not fit, don't play him!!!
@Shakin'
The old statement about effective leaders is that they are the type of people that others WANT to naturally follow, they do not need to drag followers along or goad them into action.
Leaders know the way forward, know what needs to be done, are concerned for the well-being of their followers, are loyal to their followers, always set a good example etc. etc.
Most important quality of all though is that they INSPIRE their followers to achieve what the team/group sets out to achieve.
@Shakin'
The old statement about effective leaders is that they are the type of people that others WANT to naturally follow, they do not need to drag followers along or goad them into action.
Leaders know the way forward, know what needs to be done, are concerned for the well-being of their followers, are loyal to their followers, always set a good example etc. etc.
Most important quality of all though is that they INSPIRE their followers to achieve what the team/group sets out to achieve.
I agree.
The player voted on the leadership group so they should by result be the players that want to naturally follow.
"Carlton's general manager of football Andrew McKay said the entire playing list was given the opportunity to nominate for a leadership role. The playing group then voted on the nominees."
Murphy has always been a hard worker on and off the track. He has shown what is required to be elite (his resume at Carlton would be only second to Judd) and has lead sides from his junior days.
As I have said the Coaches voted him the best player in the comp in 2011 and for me that's the best award you can win. Do you think Voss, Worsfold, C.Scott, B.Scott, Lyon, etc would give a bloke who doesn't put his head over the ball and win it when it's his turn such an award. They wouldn't
Like Nathbear said he is out of form. If he was getting 30, 4.5 tackles and a goal a game we wouldn't be questioning his captaincy. We would be pumping him up like we are with Simpson. It's wasn't 10 weeks ago that most wanted him dropped. Some questioning his courage. I haven't gone back to that thread on the old board as it would embarrass some.
The more important question. Why is he out of form, as he has shown to everyone he has done it in the past.