Carlton Supporters Club

Scoring shots doesn't always mean that much. It wasn't like they missed a string of set shots right in front. Our defense forced them into a lot of bombing from wide because we got the numbers back to cover.

But once they score a point they're good at locking it in so it's essentially far easier to score a string of points than 2 goals.

They missed some very gettable set shots.

Dusty hit the post, he also blazed wide off a hand ball receive.

Cotchin popped it up in front of goal rather than shooting.

That's just what I can remember.

They missed some very gettable set shots.

Dusty hit the post, he also blazed wide off a hand ball receive.

Cotchin popped it up in front of goal rather than shooting.

That's just what I can remember.

They missed some very gettable set shots.

Dusty hit the post, he also blazed wide off a hand ball receive.

Cotchin popped it up in front of goal rather than shooting.

That's just what I can remember.

After Round 3

2017
Goals-30  Behinds-30  (We once kicked this score in one game :( )
Percentage  80.8 %   (For- 210, Against- 260)

2018  
(2017 Target 232 Goals- 202 behinds-1594)

Goals-35  Behinds 28
Percentage  73.9 % (For- 238, Against- 322)

Goalkickers
(2017 Target Casboult  34)


2018
Curnow 9
Wright 7
Casboult 5
Garlett 3
Fisher- 3

5 goals up in attack but 10 goals down defensively at this point

That's very interesting Lods!

Silvagni's tally has diminished but we have significant contributions from Charlie, Garlett, McKay and Fisher rather than the spread of single goal kickers at this time last season.  If Silvagni can improve his output, our five leading goal kickers can maintain their scoring rates and we get contributions from the midfield and halfbacks, we could be in for a goal fest - particularly now that the defence has been stiffened by the return of Rowe.

Harry could well be our leading goal kicker this season.  Although he is likely to get more attention now ... and that makes life easier for Levi and Charlie.

Our more attacking game plan has yielded lower rates of scoring to go with more points conceded.

Silvagnis tally has diminished because he hasn't been in the team!

Captain Obvious isn't quite on the mark this time  ;)

This season Jack has one goal from three games.  At the same time last season, Jack had six goals from from five games.  That is a significant reduction in goals per game.  Hopefully Jack can be more productive throughout the rest of the season.

As Captain Judd will tell you, its also about cohesion. Being in and out of the side won't do much for his game and the players getting used to him and vice versa.

That's not what team cohesion, as measured by TWI, is about.  Jack has played 31 games (still a baby) and probably almost half as many in the NBs.  That means that he should know the gameplan and how his teammates play much better than the likes of Dow, O'Brien, Kennedy, McKay, Mullett, Phillips and McKay.

It's hard to kick goals when you're not in the 22.  It's not much easier when you're in the 22, down on form and on the receiving end of some speculative inside 50s.  Hopefully Jack will get back among the goals against the Doggies.

Who is kicking the ball to Jack?

Dow, O'Brien, Kennedy, Mullett, Phillips, McKay (x2??)

How many games has Jack played with each of them? How does he know which side they will turn out of a pack? Which part of the ground they will look to when they do turn out of a pack? Will they hit you on the chest, leave it short or over the top? Will they bounce first? Can they deliver on their opposite foot? What kind of distance can they kick accurately, consistently when running at full pace? At half pace?

Jack, and others, need to know how each of those players will perform at any given scenario and wouldn't have played more than 4 games with any of them, with the exception of Phillips, who have played together on 9 occasions.

That's not a bad point to make, but it doesn't seem to have impacted on the goal kicking of Charlie Curnow, Wright, Casboult, Garlett or McKay.  The latter two have played a total of five and three games for us but have outscored Jack by a considerable margin.

Team cohesion is an overall team measure.  It really doesn't work when you try to use it to explain one player's poor form, even if that poor form is in part due to glitches with the gameplan.  All players, regardless of how many games they have played, are expected to execute the gameplan and they will have practised turning out of a pack and drilling a pass to a leading forward ad nauseum.  Of course, inexperience and AFL level pressure will impact on how well those skills are executed.  I guess the classic example was when Casboult had ten metres on his opponent and McKay managed to kick the ball out on the full.

That's not a bad point to make, but it doesn't seem to have impacted on the goal kicking of Charlie Curnow, Wright, Casboult, Garlett or McKay.  The latter two have played a total of five and three games for us but have outscored Jack by a considerable margin.

Team cohesion is an overall team measure.  It really doesn't work when you try to use it to explain one player's poor form, even if that poor form is in part due to glitches with the gameplan.  All players, regardless of how many games they have played, are expected to execute the gameplan and they will have practised turning out of a pack and drilling a pass to a leading forward ad nauseum.  Of course, inexperience and AFL level pressure will impact on how well those skills are executed.  I guess the classic example was when Casboult had ten metres on his opponent and McKay managed to kick the ball out on the full.

The point i was making is a factor. Not the only factor, but one nonetheless. As is the fact he has missed games.
As is the fact that he simply isn't targetted as much as Curnowfides and Casboult.
As is the fact that he simply isn't as good as Curnowfides.

Actually that's not quite the case DJC.

Some players can make the most of opportunities without this synergy knowledge because of their strengths (size,  speed, marking, etc).  Jack relies on smarts and not being as familiar with players is likely to have more of an adverse effect on him than others.  Another player like that is Plowman and he too is struggling for form and it wouldn't surprise me if weitering was in the same boat there too regarding contests.

Any player will tell you it's easier playing in a settled team whilst others will cope regardless and that's just another layer that some players need to add to their game.

But is he targeted as much as Wright or Garlett (I accept that Harry is a more preferred target)?

Jack has to find a way to get on the end of more inside 50s.  It may require more running, better running patterns, better reading of the play, greater understanding of his teammates' ability and more effort.

Silvagnis tally has diminished because he hasn't been in the team!

Silvagni's 2018 form is crap, he doesn't really deserve a spot but gets a spot because of work ethic and sacrifice, some may suggest he gets it because of his surname but that is a shallow interpretation caused by a conflict of interest.

Form has been crap, but effort has not.

He is a kid. His form will resemble a roller coaster. His career to date has been filled with peaks....troughs are inevitable and we are seeing some now. There will be more peaks soon enough.

People expect too much from a pick 54-odd who has exceeded all expectations. If it wasn't for his last name, everybody would be a fan.

If it wasn't for his name, he wouldn't be on the list. Why pick him at 53 ? Ben Crocker and Menegola were later picks.

I can read names off a list, and I'm quite aware of who was picked before and after Jack. There was nothing to distinguish him from those others other than his name.

I know :
 
Marcus Adams
Riley Bonner
Harley Balic
Rhys Mathieson
Blake Hardwick
Sam Skinner
Bailey Rice
Oleg Markov
Mitch Brown
Jordan Dawson
Tom Phillips
Shane Yarran
Yestin Eades

and how many of them have had a better AFL career to this point in time?

Every year there are hits and misses.
Every year every club, passes over someone who should've been taken sooner.
Every year someone suggests a club has failed because Player A was taken after player b.......at the same time ignoring players c -> z taken in between.

If it wasn't for his name, he wouldn't be on the list. Why pick him at 53 ? Ben Crocker and Menegola were later picks.

We had to use pick 53 for Jack because Essenscum picked him. I reckon we did the right thing using our father/son pick then because Jack is a skilful, natural footballer with potential AND you can't have a Silvagni on the Essenscum list.

Even if every one of those players had a better career to date, you would still pull out the "hits and misses" line.

My point is that the only reason he was taken at that pick is because of his name. He is a type of player we have in legion - an honest toiler who tries, but really has limited impact. Any chance we could try something  different ? Maybe pick up a lazy bastard who actually impacts games ?

Like Chris Yarran?

The only reason he was taken at THAT pick was because the bombers put a bid on him for the father/son.
Had they not have done that, maybe he would've been rookied.
Given that there was SFA after him, that doesn't really matter anyway.

Yarran wasn't lazy, at least not IMO. Menegola and Crocker were both after him.

Plenty on here would suggest otherwise.
That was his biggest criticism along with going missing.

As we now know, he was a deeply troubled soul. The fact that he managed 119 games is a minor miracle IMO - any behaviour that was then perceived as laziness was quite likely the result of deeper troubles, and not of laziness in the proper sense. But this is pure guesswork on my part.

Jack played some good games for us last year and I feel that a few ordinary performances have resulted in people over scrutinisimg his form.

Irrespective of his current form his goal assist to Harry was very classy and very good link-up.

Two things.

1.  If he eliminates the fumbles (something I'm only seeing this year) he will give himself more time to dispose of the footy better.

2. Tidy up his accuracy and he'd have six goals by now even missing a game.

He didn't turn to drugs until he was at richmond according to the timeline given by himself in his own interview.

That's to miss the point, widely.

Not really.

There have been plenty of players with depression and other mental issues that have surpassed the 119 game mark set by Yarran. It wasn't until he hit the drugs that it ended his career.

So minor miracle? Not so much.

But this is pure guesswork on my part.

It's crazy debating this because PaulP's closing stament was;

Which seems to be the critical piece!

Yes, it is guesswork on my part. But given Yazz's difficult childhood, issues with his father etc., my gut feeling is that he was a ticking time bomb, and on this occasion, we got out before it was too late, which frankly, is a rarity for our club.

I'm not discounting the drug taking, but he was, with the benefit of hindsight, someone who lacked a basic framework and structure for dealing with life's vicissitudes and temptations, and was always going to fall hard when it occurred. The fact that it occurred at the Tiges and not us is simply chance IMO.

Footy clubs should be able to detect and manage issues such as those that derailed Yazza’s career.

Pure speculation on my part but I reckon the turning point in Yazza’s career/life was triggered by the comments Carrazzo made when he was suspended for clocking Chapman.

Footy clubs should be able to detect and manage issues such as those that derailed Yazza’s career.

Pure speculation on my part but I reckon the turning point in Yazza’s career/life was triggered by the comments Carrazzo made when he was suspended for clocking Chapman.

Agreed. Yarran drew a line in the sand that day but our team of pansies didn't follow.

....................................
Pure speculation on my part but I reckon the turning point in Yazza’s career/life was triggered by the comments Carrazzo made when he was suspended for clocking Chapman.

Agreed. Yarran drew a line in the sand that day but our team of pansies didn't follow.

Chapman obviously said something highly offensive to Yazz to cause such a reaction, which I'd never witnessed him get anywhere near before. I was at the game and I just could not believe what I was seeing. I don't know what went on behind the scenes afterwards but anything that needed to be said to him needed to be said in private rather than via public commentary.

I watched the whole thing. Chapman was cracking him with some pretty decent jumper punches and Yarran had enough.

Chapman whinged about being hit and completely ignored his provocative jumper punches.  Carrazzo should have been more supportive in his public comments and, at the very least, talked about Chapman’s provocation.

Yep, that incident had consequences, and it wasn't for Yarran. The club and Carrazzo lost me that day, they basically sold a team-mate up the river, they stood him up. Hardly brothers in arms is it?

Chapman crying was a real eye-opener, that in some way is responsible for my paranoia about how the AFL and wider AFL community perceive and deal with Carlton.

Things haven't changed, Selwood was cleared!

It was piddle weak from Carazzo.   Yarran finally stood up to some self entitled yobbo and got no support.   Chapman should have been rubbed out as well

If its not TOO much trouble, could you include the 2016 totals as well.

Shouldn't be too hard as they were in last years thread.
I'll fix it up in the next day or two ;)

2016 Goalkickers are a little harder as they weren't in the old thread but I can do them if you want them...just might take a little longer ;)

Percentage is a concern too :(

I'd actually like to see the comparative injury lists for this stage of the  season in 2016/7 just to get some perspective.

After Round 9

2016

Goals 89 Behinds 92-(For 626  against 816)
Percentage 76.7 %

2017
Goals 92 Behinds 80-(For 632 against 810)
Percentage 78 %

2018
(2017 Target 232 Goals- 202 behinds-1594)

Goals-88  Behinds - 79
Percentage  63.3 % (For- 607, Against- 959)


Goalkickers
(2017 Target Casboult  34)

2017

Casboult 15
Wright 12
Silvagni 8
Weitering 7

2018

Curnow 13
McKay 11
Casboult 11
Wright 10
Fisher- 7

*There's a long way to go but that percentage (63.3%) is not good...terrible in fact!
Even in our poorest seasons of the last 15 years we have never finished a season with a percentage that low. In fact we have to go back to 1901 to get below that mark.
Something to work on in the second half of the year ;)

Interesting trivia point though....after Round 9 in 2015, the year we declared a rebuild, our percentage was 63.2%...so we're up on that. ;D

Pretty spooky ;D...pretty sad :(

Carlton percentages after Round 9

2015- 63.2453567
2018- 63.2950990

So if i'm reading between the lines, we are 0.05% above where we were when Mick got sacked?

Pretty depressing given that all we have to hold on to is the hope that we are on the right path.

Looks like we're creating more opportunity to score but not as efficient as we were.

We used to be a lot more patient when making our inside 50 entries in the past. Painstakingly so in some cases.
We can still see a little bit of that now, but there is more hit and hope now, or trying to force a kick that isn't quite there. We are not skilled enough to do this.

Casboult better get a move on for that 50 goals he was easily going to kick.

Ironically if we played Harry McKay every game he would go close.

Bit hard for forwards to kick goals when your midfield goes AWOL.

Let alone when you're coming off a 5-6 week layoff post injury....shouldn't have been picked in the 1s.

Thanks for your work on this Lods. Much appreciated.

Curnow 19
M Wright 14
McKay 12
Casboult 12

Some positives:

We have covered Gibbs’ contribution from 2017.

Two of our top four goalkickers weren’t in the top four last season.

One of our top four goalkickers can’t get a game!

Very much a work in progress but there are some promising signs  :)

Thats a false positive (the bold one).

He's top 4 for goal kicking because we are so poor at kicking goals as a team and it can be argued that Mckay wouldnt be in anyone elses top 4 goal kickers at another club.

If he was sitting top 4 for goals kicked, and the top two had kicked 100 between them, then this might be a positive.

One of our top four goalkickers can’t get a game!

Have many of his goals come from KPP marking or bullocking type play?

Did McKay's goals come at the expense of some other small forward?

On the other side he is on 2 goals per game. I'll certainly take that.

Thats a false positive (the bold one).

He's top 4 for goal kicking because we are so poor at kicking goals as a team and it can be argued that Mckay wouldnt be in anyone elses top 4 goal kickers at another club.

If he was sitting top 4 for goals kicked, and the top two had kicked 100 between them, then this might be a positive.

Harry didn't meet the team standards because his were too high?

Lods, I'm not sure how you collect the stats, but if available it would be interesting to see the goal contribution from the midfielder compared to previous years. I'm pegging it's dropped substantially and would be a major reason for the 2018 goal deficit.

After 17 games

2016

Goals 176 Behinds 154-(For 1210- Against- 1522)
Percentage 79.5%

2017(Target 224-224-1568)

Goals 181 Behinds 157-(For 1243- Against- 1523)
Percentage 81.6%

2018
(2017 Target 232 Goals- 202 behinds-1594)

Goals-148  Behinds - 158  (For- 1046 , Against- 1755)
Percentage  59.6 %


Goalkickers
(2017 Target Casboult  34)

2017

Casboult 25
Wright 25
Silvagni 15
Gibbs 14
Curnow 14

2018

Curnow 28
M Wright 15
McKay 12
Casboult 12

Percentage drops below 60%.
We thought the 170-180 goal total to this stage was pretty poor last year.

Tough to read , lack of a regular crumbing forward , Wright has gone missing for most of the year, shadow of last year. Casboult , same , injuries have taken any balance we tried to create , and game plan miss firing , doesn't add up to pretty score line.

Wright has been played up the ground a bit more as part of our rotations which has hurt us a bit but he has been poor in front of goal and out of the game for periods of the game and his position on the list might be in question. I think eh will hang on for another year but needs a good finish to 2018 and a good 2019.

Wright has been played up the ground a bit more as part of our rotations which has hurt us a bit but he has been poor in front of goal and out of the game for periods of the game and his position on the list might be in question. I think eh will hang on for another year but needs a good finish to 2018 and a good 2019.

Lods, thanks for your efforts in keeping this going. Given that it makes such dismal reading, I almost wish you hadn't bothered.

Sigh..............

On the positive side Paul...it can only get better next year. ;D
Although I think that's what we said last year :(