Carlton Supporters Club

My expectations are low this week. I don't see us playing well in the wet.

My expectations are low this week. I don't see us playing well in the wet.

Not as low as mine.  If we do win, it'll be a thin margin

Well I'm not expecting much but would be delighted to be surprised.

I'll be watching from Vancouver, expectations low

Wouldn't it be fantastic to come back here at 6pm saying we can't believe WE WON by 10 GOALS?! And how well did they play?  That's what we've been waiting for, to see that!  Yes, now we see where we've been aiming at for so long...

Fingers firmly crossed  O:-)

Is the forecast for wet weather over there? If so, would probably rule Kerr out...hard to see them going with 3 talls in wet conditions. It might mean Polson gets a game in those conditions?

Sunday 2 June

Summary Min 9  Max 14

Showers developing.Possible rainfall: 3 to 8 mm  Chance of any rain: 90% 

Melbourne area

Cloudy. Very high (95%) chance of showers in the afternoon and evening. Light winds becoming west to northwesterly 15 to 25 km/h during the day.

Is the forecast for wet weather over there? If so, would probably rule Kerr out...hard to see them going with 3 talls in wet conditions. It might mean Polson gets a game in those conditions?

90% chance of rain but I'd still bring in Kerr to run through a few of the CheatsFC on-ballers at ground level, stop them dropping into the space.

The players who are probably least effective in the wet, at the moment anyway, are Charlie and Marchbank. Haven't seen enough of Setterfield to know how he goes, Kennedy goes OK in heavy repeat stoppages. So won't be many clean hands on the day so it is likely a get it forward and score type event. Maybe McKay comes out if Charlie stays in, but at the moment I'd say McKay is better value across the ground and at ground level!

SoJ quite good in the wet.

Don't know about Stocker or Schumacher in the wet, haven't seen enough.

As I predicted, we handed an undermanned CheatsFC a victory. I think this is lower than low for our Club. Just terrible, I have this suspicion that was Boltons last game, it's beyond reasons and excuses. I have tried to maintain the faith but I can no longer. I have no faith in the list, the coaches, the board, CEO, the entire club. I feel like we are back to square one. Gutted.

Fun fact...not, seniors and reserves lost by 41 points. If nothing else, that extremely consistent right across the club.

Cripps is mentally broken, and poorly coached as a midfielder, tactically.

Even an VFLW midfield coach knows if you have a player being hard tagged you send them to an opponent, the hard tagger will follow and you create a loose man for your own team.

Instead we allowed a 1st year go one on one with him for the whole game, and he keeps battling one on one, which lets the CheatsFC players run free off him!

Barker is our midfield coach!

I've been a big Bolton fan, but he's either gone now, or at the bye, in my mind it makes no difference either way. We are embarrassing, and we will continue to be no matter what happens

Cripps well held by a novice and that was the game....

Cripps well held by a novice and that was the game....

Why didn't we tag Heppel?

Cripps wants to be elsewhere

Cripps well held by a novice and that was the game....

He was tactically poor, our midfield was tactically poor, we neither gave him a chop out or had him create a spare number!

That's barely D-Grade football let alone AFL!

I think Cripps is demoralised and so are many other players. Welcome to our abode - Rock Bottom.

Why didn't we tag Heppel?

Curnow ran with Merrett I think it was for a while. Merrett still had 22 though.

Why didn't we tag Heppel?

We had Curnow on Merrett but seemed happy to let Heppell run around on his own....our midfield planning isnt great and we are poor tactically in most games.

Cripps would be looking to the bye I think. He is bashed around and tagged every week, and we have nobody else that takes that player.

Cripps wants to be elsewhere

Can’t say I blame him

Big question mark on Marchbank IMO...was terrible today and IMO needs a spell in the twos, over rated IMO.

Well I think if we want to keep Cripps and save the other good talent on our list we have to make some big calls and SOON!

Today we met a reasonable side in poor form, with our backs to the wall.

Absolutely pathetic.

I've tried to look at BB positively and believe the excuses, justifications and explanations for chronic failure. No more.

The rumours about his coaching ability seem true.

The idea that you can lose week in, week out and not damage the culture and mindset of the playing group is absolutely preposterous - just look at Cripps.

How much more damage does the President want to allow to be inflicted upon this group? Grow a pair and make a decision or fk off with the work experience senior coach.

Bad coaching can make the best players look ordinary. Good coaching can make ordinary players look capable, even good.

He’s done Cookie. Bolton won’t survive this. Enough now for the Board to make a move now.

Big question mark on Marchbank [insert name here] IMO...was terrible today and IMO needs a spell in the twos, over rated IMO.

You could probably put 22 names there, why single out Marchbank? Not sure what he did or didn't do that was far in excess of anyone else out there.  ???

He’s done Cookie. Bolton won’t survive this. Enough now for the Board to make a move now.

I really hope that is not code for Brad Scott is the Messiah.

We had Curnow on Merrett but seemed happy to let Heppell run around on his own....our midfield planning isnt great and we are poor tactically in most games.

And that’s our style, warts n all. We let he opposition have space - all the time. Our players seem to be drilled to set up in a zone that guards the space but offers harder running opposition mids way to much space to just move through it seemingly uncontested.

They create overlapping run and just move the ball easily with little pressure. We rely on them to make mistakes, which isn’t often, and then when we do get the sherrin we crumble under the pressure they put on us because we ironically won’t run and carry it like they do.

Instead of spreading players across the ground, we load up down the boundary line (our along half back for the switch of play). Even when that long kick to a contest down the line works, our forwards who were at the fall of the ball have to work back hard for the next kick instead of being able to lead up at the ball.

At times earlier in the season when we actually tucked the ball under the arm and had a run through the middle we were kicking some goals. That has stopped now.

You could probably put 22 names there, why single out Marchbank? Not sure what he did or didn't do that was far in excess of anyone else out there.  ???

It was hard to kick goals to day and he had about 6 kicked on him......and was lucky Laverde didnt kick straight, gave away dumb free's and was outbodied
by lighter players...pathetic performance IMO.

You could probably put 22 names there, why single out Marchbank? Not sure what he did or didn't do that was far in excess of anyone else out there.  ???

He's awful Kruddler, just awful, he's a nothing type!

It's not those dodgy umpiring decisions, like when Tippa ducks his head and Marchbank is pinged, that has nothing to do with it.

It's what Marchbank does when he has the ball, and the way he plays as a medium tall type, 194cm x 93kg. But he is worthless against players his own size, lacks strength and aggression, plays bruise free and is too slow for opponents smaller than him.

If he was an elite ball user and decision maker he could get away with it because he intercepts well, but he isn't!

I think Cripps is demoralised and so are many other players. Welcome to our abode - Rock Bottom.

Been down for a bit now. I think he's checked out of our club personally. I don't think he'll re-sign and don't blame him a bit  :'(

I'm ready to remove my membership renewal. I've been patient for the decades and put faith in the return of SOS. Bolton not so much. Worst part is that we have plenty of talent but seriously lack that hard competitive edge. Nice doesn't win games. Not sure intelligence or teaching skill does either.

Sorry that's a negative post. I'm all out of positives just now. That performance after Norp etc. Has left me on empty.
Take care of you Bluebaggers

I quite like marchy, at least he seems to get himself to contests.

Saw too many players watching their guy and letting another run past, that above all else craps the hell out of me.  Just dumb.

He's awful Kruddler, just awful, he's a nothing type!

It's not those dodgy umpiring decisions, like when Tippa ducks his head and Marchbank is pinged, that has nothing to do with it.

It's what Marchbank does when he has the ball, and the way he plays as a medium tall type, 194cm x 93kg. But he is worthless against players his own size, lacks strength and aggression, plays bruise free and is too slow for opponents smaller than him.

If he was an elite ball user and decision maker he could get away with it because he intercepts well, but he isn't!

Tippa had his head down over the ball and Marchbank attacked him front on.....dumb...

I really hope that is not code for Brad Scott is the Messiah.

I don't think Brad Scott or anybody else could be the messiah, we're well beyond that sort of help  - just somebody, prefereably a very tough bastard,  who might just drag us back a couple of mm from the precipice edge.

Tippa had his head down over the ball and Marchbank attacked him front on.....dumb...

In fairness to Marchbank, Tippa had the momentum not Marchbank, and there was little or no contact in it.

I really hope that is not code for Brad Scott is the Messiah.

Brad Scott or Ross Lyon types would be a huge mistake, our list doesn't suit their game style at all.

It would mean another rebuild!

Geez we are a rabble.
How can you judge the players when they are part of such a crap system.
The coach and coaching panel need to be accountable.
Have been saying for weeks now, the coach is out of his depth.
Has zero game plan and the players have now given up.
They went at half rat power today.
If the club doesn’t move him on we will lose players.
We need a coaching group that has had some success at the top level.
Our footy ops manager and coach have 11 games experience at AFL level.
We should chase Sam Mitchell and Roughead as an assistant

In fairness to Marchbank, Tippa had the momentum not Marchbank, and there was little or no contact in it.

Outbodied by Baguley.....led to the ball by Laverde, out muscled by Laverde.....real household names those two.
Sorry LP but he isnt the player we thought we were getting and has a long way to go....

Not only is the Adelaide Football Club laughing their collective heads off, so are two Perth based clubs at the prospect of picking up Crippa.

How many more blokes will want to leave our club if things don't change... asap?

Geez we are a rabble.
How can you judge the players when they are part of such a crap system.
The coach and coaching panel need to be accountable.
Have been saying for weeks now, the coach is out of his depth.
Has zero game plan and the players have now given up.
They went at half rat power today.
If the club doesn’t move him on we will lose players.
We need a coaching group that has had some success at the top level.
Our footy ops manager and coach have 11 games experience at AFL level.
We should chase Sam Mitchell and Roughead as an assistant

Spot on.

Hopefully the penny has finally dropped in the stubborn heads of our Board.

Today’s problem: By 1/4 time, Cripps had realised that half the team he was playing with were spuds and decided, why bother....and I don’t blame him.  Once the others saw that Cripps couldn’t give a carp, that was it.

Not only is the Adelaide Football Club laughing their collective heads off, so are two Perth based clubs at the prospect of picking up Crippa.

How many more blokes will want to leave our club if things don't change... asap?

You (and others), keep saying 'change'. What do you mean by change? Sack the coach, sack the assistant coach? Sack the President.....and do what exactly?

What is it you mean, and what is it you are proposing?

Geeez Marchbank was far from our worst.Newman played like spud. Bloody hell,we started with 2 players down in Lang and Fasolo. Played the worst wet weather football I've ever seen. Weitering was great today. Kreuzer cracked in. The more I see of Stocker the more I think he'll be real good.
The more I see of Kennedy the less I like. Another abject failure.
Cunningham looks OK. The baqckline isn't the problem, it's the way we butcher the ball into attack and in general play. 2 top rate forwards, solid backline, reasonable midfield. We should be better.
Coach is cooked.

In fairness to Marchbank, Tippa had the momentum not Marchbank, and there was little or no contact in it.

Watch it again in slow motion. At the last second, Tipungwuti realises he's gone and basically headbutts Marchbank in the midriff.  Clever. Fooled the ump.

Not only is the Adelaide Football Club laughing their collective heads off, so are two Perth based clubs at the prospect of picking up Crippa.

How many more blokes will want to leave our club if things don't change... asap?

I agree totally.
No Crippa. No Carlton.
We won't even have a decent first round draft pick. Just when we thought it couldn't get worse.

Today's highlight will be hearing what excuses BB will come up with   >:D
None of which, will instil the hope members have lost.
Dark day for Bluebaggers

How do we find our way out of this mire?

E Curnow, Kennedy, Thomas, Newman, Fasolo, Plowman, Phillips, Garlett, Obrien, Lobbe, Lang, Polson and Silvagni all have next to 0 trade value, whilst Docherty, Kreuzer, Pickett, Williamson are perennially injured. And, Simpson & Murphy are in the twilight of their careers - that's half of our list.

So hard to find a way out.


 

Even our media staff have lost interest. From our website:

CARLTON has suffered a disappointing loss to traditional rivals on Sunday afternoon at the MCG.

Wet weather conditions made it a fairly lacklustre affair between the two teams, while Essendon’s energy around the ground and the Blues’ inaccuracy in front of goal saw them go down by xx-points.

Not only is that propaganda. It's completely lazy and unprofessional. Sounding familiar  ::)

Miserable day. Miserable result.  Made more miserable by another anti-Carlton rule being added to the statute books:

Rule 124.2.1:

If a Carlton players looks like they have inadvertently been afforded an advantage through good luck or happenstance (e.g. all opposition players stop from the impression that the ball is no longer in play), the nearest field umpire is to blow the whistle, stop play, and recall the ball for a bounce close to the position whereby the said Carlton player took possession (note Rule 124.2.1a below).

Rule 124.2.1a: This rule does not apply to any team other than the Carlton Football Club.

I agree totally.
No Crippa. No Carlton.
We won't even have a decent first round draft pick. Just when we thought it couldn't get worse.

Today's highlight will be hearing what excuses BB will come up with   >:D
None of which, will instil the hope members have lost.
Dark day for Bluebaggers

We are not strangers to these kind of days. I hope the board is in emergency session as we speak to come up with the plan for extricating us from this death spiral! Urgent decisions required - the players are demoralised - first priority would be to address that imo. Open and brutally honest sessions need to be held with them as a first step, asap, by impartial people, to ascertain where the playing group see the issues and then take it from there. We are in crisis as a club and we need to take action accordingly.

How do we get our way out of this mire?

E Curnow, Kennedy, Thomas, Newman, Fasolo, Plowman, Phillips, Garlett, Obrien, Lobbe, Lang, Polson and Silvagni all have next to 0 trade value, whilst Docherty, Kreuzer, Pickett, Williamson are perennially injured. And, Simpson & Murphy are in the twilight of their careers - that's half of our list.

So hard to find a way out.


 

I think the kids are not as bad as we make them out to be, but they are not ready to step up. Dow needs to iron out some deficiencies in his game, and Samo is ready to join the senior team as regular but NOT be the senior player yet. Outside of that, it is Cripps and then our older injured brigade. We need some older quality senior players to take that load and ensure we can develop under them. The problem is we cannot find them and get them to come across.

Honestly, can we get a Steele Sidebottom to cross over to us? What about Luke Shuey? Where is our Andrew Gaff or Dayne Beams going to come from? It is that calibre of players that turn up week in and week out and would have been the difference today. Cripps would have run riot - or they would have. We would have to pay the moon to get these guys, so realistically we need the next calibre down or find the older guys coming to the end you can still get some worth from AND who would want to come over to us.

I think Brendon Bolton is gone unfortunately, surly there’ll be a statement  early next week by the club ?
Our situation is untenable and unacceptable. I’d have a good look a Silvagni too someone needs to be held accountable for us not having 1st pick in this year’s draft situation is ludicrous and painful. My beloved Baggers have been reduced to a rabble.

Bolton is finished. May as well terminate him now and start the process for a replacement.

Is this what it feels like for a religious person to lose their faith. I feel numb, angry, I'm shaking and feel like I want to cry.

Fouth year of catch phrases for a coach who I guess was always supposed to be a sacrificial lamb. The team has not improved, there is no positive culture, how can there be. There are kids out there getting a game without earning it, so why try harder? They get their game and match payments, they'll be cuddled and told it's not their fault and how great things are, well it's not great at all. The Carlton players in general are pretenders, they give token efforts, drop their heads way to easy and I can't see a light at the end of the tunnel.

If I hear the Carlton hierarchy come out and say be patient and we feel your pain I 'll spew.

I just want to bring one thing up about our coaches. Paddy Dow has gone and hired a kicking coach, we have Bolton and 10 assistant coaches and Paddy Dow has to go find himself a kicking coach....WTF?

There is no one with real values for Carlton and there is only one logical coach to throw the kitchen sink at and it's Ratten. I know he knocked us back before, but in an interview this weekend, he admitted he got the main job too early, throw a crap load of money at him and plead for Ratts to come back to Carlton. It is the only move that will save the club, because at this rate our 60K members will drop back to 40K next season.

Even our media staff have lost interest. From our website:

CARLTON has suffered a disappointing loss to traditional rivals on Sunday afternoon at the MCG.

Wet weather conditions made it a fairly lacklustre affair between the two teams, while Essendon’s energy around the ground and the Blues’ inaccuracy in front of goal saw them go down by xx-points.

Not only is that propaganda. It's completely lazy and unprofessional. Sounding familiar  ::)

They still haven't fixed it. 
That's a minor issue in the scheme of things but is still really poor.
(Everyone's probably in the Meeting) :(

Honestly, can we get a Steele Sidebottom to cross over to us? What about Luke Shuey? Where is our Andrew Gaff or Dayne Beams going to come from? It is that calibre of players that turn up week in and week out and would have been the difference today. Cripps would have run riot - or they would have. We would have to pay the moon to get these guys, so realistically we need the next calibre down or find the older guys coming to the end you can still get some worth from AND who would want to come over to us.

No-one will come to us. The word is out - we're a rabble top to bottom.  Why do you think no FA's come across. The AFL has totally botched this and, admittedly, we haven't helped ourselves either. I mean, who in their right mind would come across to a perennial basket case of a club if they are yearning for success in the last 2-3 seasons of their career?

If it was an equitable system FA's should only be allowed to transfer to a team that qualifies through some sort of ladder calculation, e.g. average 12th position or lower for 2 or 3 consecutive years.  That Dangerfield was allowed to go to Geelong, or Lynch to Richmond is a total joke.

Miserable day. Miserable result.  Made more miserable by another anti-Carlton rule being added to the statute books:

Rule 124.2.1:

If a Carlton players looks like they have inadvertently been afforded an advantage through good luck or happenstance (e.g. all opposition players stop from the impression that the ball is no longer in play), the nearest field umpire is to blow the whistle, stop play, and recall the ball for a bounce close to the position whereby the said Carlton player took possession (note Rule 124.2.1a below).

Rule 124.2.1a: This rule does not apply to any team other than the Carlton Football Club.

I think there are similar rules on holding the man and the ball.

No-one will come to us. The word is out - we're a rabble top to bottom.  Why do you think no FA's come across. The AFL has totally botched this and, admittedly, we haven't helped ourselves either. I mean, who in their right mind would come across to a perennial basket case of a club if they are yearning for success in the last 2-3 seasons of their career?

If it was an equitable system FA's should only be allowed to transfer to a team that qualifies through some sort of ladder calculation, e.g. average 12th position or lower for 2 or 3 consecutive years.  That Dangerfield was allowed to go to Geelong, or Lynch to Richmond is a total joke.

John Elliot was right; "we don't rebuild at Carlton". We still haven't.

It was hard to kick goals to day and he had about 6 kicked on him......and was lucky Laverde didnt kick straight, gave away dumb free's and was outbodied
by lighter players...pathetic performance IMO.

Plowman and Marchbank are both not good enough, so much expectation, so much given away fro them.

Geez we are a rabble.
How can you judge the players when they are part of such a crap system.
The coach and coaching panel need to be accountable.
Have been saying for weeks now, the coach is out of his depth.
Has zero game plan and the players have now given up.
They went at half rat power today.
If the club doesn’t move him on we will lose players.
We need a coaching group that has had some success at the top level.
Our footy ops manager and coach have 11 games experience at AFL level.
We should chase Sam Mitchell and Roughead as an assistant

I actually think we will lose Cripps if we move Bolton on.

Today’s problem: By 1/4 time, Cripps had realised that half the team he was playing with were spuds and decided, why bother....and I don’t blame him.  Once the others saw that Cripps couldn’t give a carp, that was it.

If he did give up, that would be disappointing and I would question if he is worthy to be Captain. As the skipper, you must never ever give up no matter how poor your team mates are, or how poor the coach is going, or how badly you are getting beaten. Frustrated? Abosuletely, give up, never.

I actually think we will lose Cripps if we move Bolton on.

I think it’ll be the other way.
Keep losing under Bolton without giving him support and Cripps will have had enough.
I can’t say I blame him if he says he wants to go so he can win more games and have a crack at a flag with the weagles or duckers (yes typo intended)
But since the eagles bent us over to get Judd we had better repay the favour.
(I’d rather have Cripps though)

There is a fundamental coaching flaw if we have so many entries inside 50, but do nothing with them.  What has Teague given us in terms of strategies and plans?

I actually think we will lose Cripps if we move Bolton on.

Based on what?
He didn’t look like he was playing for the coach today.
Cripps is a warrior, he wants to win

I know stats are stats. Here's some interesting running stats.
4 of the top 5 are Carlton players for:
Distance covered
Fastest in attack and defence
Most sprints
Most repeat sprints
Carlton sprinted 51 v 30 and +2 tackles

My interpretation. Our players are running their guts out. Ineffectively chasing their tailfeathers. Aka chooks with their heads cut off.
Come to think of it, that's exactly what it looked like today. Ineffectual presence.

There is a fundamental coaching flaw if we have so many entries inside 50, but do nothing with them.  What has Teague given us in terms of strategies and plans?

Why do we have an ex forward coaching the midfield, and we do we have an ex defender coaching our forwards ?

I know stats are stats. Here's some interesting running stats.
4 of the top 5 are Carlton players for:
Distance covered
Fastest in attack and defence
Most sprints
Most repeat sprints
Carlton sprinted 51 v 30 and +2 tackles

My interpretation. Our players are running their guts out. Ineffectively chasing their tailfeathers. Aka chooks with their heads cut off.
Come to think of it, that's exactly what it looked like today. Ineffectual presence.

We have no system, we just hack it forward a long the boundary.

The players have lost faith now, it's embarrassing for them. We got belted by the Essendon reserves today.

Bad enough that we're due for another spoon.

The list has lost all confidence and that erodes all else.  We failed where Essendon succeeded ... tackling and player options out the back where they exposed us.

We're killing Cripps and will do the same with Walsh and Stocker (and I love this kid) if we're not careful.

One thing I will say about an opposition player I thought was a flash in the pan .... Tipungwuti ... he's VERY good.  Took him a year or two, but very clever

Weitering?  Take a well deserved bow mate

Based on what?
He didn’t look like he was playing for the coach today.
Cripps is a warrior, he wants to win

Based on the fact that he has said publicly he has backed the board, their plan and Bolts. I think, Im guessing only, that he would see it as a kick in the guts seeing the coach, who he has a strong relationship with, go.

There is a fundamental coaching flaw if we have so many entries inside 50, but do nothing with them.  What has Teague given us in terms of strategies and plans?

Zero

i though Weitering was great today, Levi tried hard in an unnatural position for him, Kreuzer played his heart out both in the ruck and on the ground. Besides some ordinary disposal, Dow’s ability to get the ball, footwork out of traffic and his acceleration away from packs makes me feel confident that he will become a very good player for us. Setterfield showed that he can find the football and doesn’t mind getting dirty. Stocker improves every week and Walsh is a lock champion of the future.  Cuningham needs continuity because he can play. Our spine of McKay, Curnow, Cripps, Weitering and Jones is a more than useful framework, with youth on its side. Lang, Fasolo and Kennedy don’t belong. 

There’s still plenty to work with, but they need to be guided and directed properly.  That’s the part we haven’t got in place unfortunately. 

Why do we have an ex forward coaching the midfield, and we do we have an ex defender coaching our forwards ?

Teague did a very good job coaching the forwards at Adelaide. Coming to Carlton as an assistant is a death wish....lol. Coaching our forward line would be a nightmare. Essentially an impossible job.

But, anyway, I do see your point.

i though Weitering was great today, Levi tried hard in an unnatural position for him, Kreuzer played his heart out both in the ruck and on the ground. Besides some ordinary disposal, Dow’s ability to get the ball, footwork out of traffic and his acceleration away from packs makes me feel confident that he will become a very good player for us. Setterfield showed that he can find the football and doesn’t mind getting dirty. Stocker improves every week and Walsh is a lock champion of the future.  Cuningham needs continuity because he can play. Our spine of McKay, Curnow, Cripps, Weitering and Jones is a more than useful framework, with youth on its side. Lang, Fasolo and Kennedy don’t belong. 

There’s still plenty to work with, but they need to be guided and directed properly.  That’s the part we haven’t got in place unfortunately.

Great Post

There is a fundamental coaching flaw if we have so many entries inside 50, but do nothing with them.  What has Teague given us in terms of strategies and plans?

Would you like the job of be a Carlton forward coach? Did a great job as forward coach at Adelaide for 3 years, very highly regarded at West Coast so what happens to he and others when they come here?. The way the ball comes into the f50 how do you coach that. Line coaches are at the mercy of the plan of the head coach. Get a bad one of those and everyone looks bad. Ratten probably looked pretty average under Pagan, until he got the top job.

i though Weitering was great today, Levi tried hard in an unnatural position for him, Kreuzer played his heart out both in the ruck and on the ground. Besides some ordinary disposal, Dow’s ability to get the ball, footwork out of traffic and his acceleration away from packs makes me feel confident that he will become a very good player for us. Setterfield showed that he can find the football and doesn’t mind getting dirty. Stocker improves every week and Walsh is a lock champion of the future.  Cuningham needs continuity because he can play. Our spine of McKay, Curnow, Cripps, Weitering and Jones is a more than useful framework, with youth on its side. Lang, Fasolo and Kennedy don’t belong. 

There’s still plenty to work with, but they need to be guided and directed properly.  That’s the part we haven’t got in place unfortunately.

Weitering competed well but gee did he just simply kick blindly out of defence so many times - without any thought whatsoever....that said, it was coming in thick and fast....

I suspect the players know or feel the axe is coming for Bolts....

Shouldn't post this I guess but during the game there was a shot of a few of our players sitting in the stands and BT said "There's a number of the Carlton players looking on" and I thought, as the camera returned to the play, that he could have followed up by saying " and more of them out on the ground doing the same thing!"

There is a fundamental coaching flaw if we have so many entries inside 50, but do nothing with them.  What has Teague given us in terms of strategies and plans?

I'm.going on sen tonight and will be calling for all paying supporters to boycott the Brisbane game until the board recognise change needs to be made. They will not listen otherwise.

I actually think we will lose Cripps if we move Bolton on.

I think we'll lose him if we don't!!

At half time I switched to Dr Pimple Popper- good couple of epidodes of gunk being squeezed and cut out of people - much more satisfying!

An interview with Harry McKay a week or two ago showed the out that the players have - we are young and learning.

While it is true,  it doesn't mean you can't have a crack and put in every week.   What I want to see is effort and skills on display every week.   How are skills attached to 'young and learning' - they should be obvious.

Yes,  injuries have really hurt what was looking like a steady and settled backline, but that should mean the midfield and forwards defend harder.

Draft picks won't get us out of this - a simple game plan and a rocket might.   We need 22 players doing their bit every week, not 5 or 6.

Fans looked devastated leaving the ground today, will be lucky to crack 20,000 next week although the Fitzroy fans might be back on board.

Teague did a very good job coaching the forwards at Adelaide. Coming to Carlton as an assistant is a death wish....lol. Coaching our forward line would be a nightmare. Essentially an impossible job.

But, anyway, I do see your point.

Taking any position at Carlton is a death wish.

At any rate, I'm not sure the Crows forwards need much coaching to be honest. Betts, Tex, Lynch, Jenkins etc. - plenty of experience there, and they seem to be doing ok without him.

Teague was a back line coach at Saints and WC, which makes sense IMO.

We've got a good blueprint for turning blue collar forwards into very handy defenders. Whoever is responsible for that deserves a promotion. He needs to have license to share his strategy with the line coaches  ;)

Levi was good again being played out of position.
Weiters is taking his game to another level.
Stocker is going to surpass our beloved Simmo - soon.
Dow had some howlers by foot but so did many others. His play in tight though is exciting and i loved seeing him shepherding. Samo building too although slower than I'd hoped. Perhaps secondary to multiple positions. Fish n Cripps both down.
Charlie and H troubled by the delivery, intercepepted way too easily. Combination perhaps of leading, fwd cohesion, and delivery. Doesn't help when you're handicapped in the fwd line (Fasolo and Lang). Icing on the cake was Lang missing inexcusable set shots. Slot a couple and we're in with a chance, but no. Instead shows up like a recruit from Geelong.

Some good signs but not nearly enough. Very frustrating.

I think we'll lose him if we don't!!

Much more likely (to lose Cripps with the status quo).

Taking any position at Carlton is a death wish.

At any rate, I'm not sure the Crows forwards need much coaching to be honest. Betts, Tex, Lynch, Jenkins etc. - plenty of experience there, and they seem to be doing ok without him.

Teague was a back line coach at Saints and WC, which makes sense IMO.

Probably does.

I’m done. Can’t take it any more.
Ok, I’m a quitter....but I have to consider my wife and family having to live with the shell of a man I am now.

Would the last supporter to succumb please give Cripper a pat on the back before you finally turn the site off for good

I’m done. Can’t take it any more.
Ok, I’m a quitter....but I have to consider my wife and family having to live with the shell of a man I am now.

Would the last supporter to succumb please give Cripper a pat on the back before you finally turn the site off for good

???? it’s funny but nearly true ????

I’m done. Can’t take it any more.
Ok, I’m a quitter....but I have to consider my wife and family having to live with the shell of a man I am now.

Would the last supporter to succumb please give Cripper a pat on the back before you finally turn the site off for good

Morbid as it may be we're at our busiest when we are in a "spot of bother."
Lot's of folk have come in here tonight to 'share' their thoughts.
I'm guessing we'll have a busy week.

Morbid as it may be we're at our busiest when we are in a "spot of bother."
Lot's of folk have come in here tonight to 'share' their thoughts.
I'm guessing we'll have a busy week.

I reckon you and the other mods will be working shifts once Bolton's sacking is announced and this site goes berko.

Good luck.

I think that Bolton being sacked is a foregone conclusion after today, it's going from bad to worse and just can't be tolerated any longer.
He seems like a decent bloke and he's given it his best shot but we're playing like a disorganised rabble.

I think that Bolton being sacked is a foregone conclusion after today, it's going from bad to worse and just can't be tolerated any longer.
He seems like a decent bloke and he's given it his best shot but we're playing like a disorganised rabble.

That's probably the best summary of the situation I have read. I don't think anybody hates Bolton.

Folks, I'm no moderator, but let's be decent and civil to each other, toward players and coaches.  Its a really disappointing day to be a Carlton supporter but it is just footy.

I am a moderator and I have one statement: if you can't play together nicely, then don't post! No more warnings, either. If you can't play by the rules, then there will be suspensions or bans.

Yes, today was a disaster of biblical proportions, but ...

We are in the habit of losing, administration, coaches, players and now one by one the supporters just accept it. As supporters we have continued to swallow the crap the club sends us hook line and sinker preying on our loyalty. That  dawn is just over the hill they tell us, light ahead we hear, we all have belief in the coach and the football department plan.  What rubbish just a con.  I don’t think the coach even believes it anymore.  What’s the solution?  We need change to change. Something, a spark, to ignite us all from the top on down to you and me,  sack Bolton, Barker or 1 of the other dozen assistants we have, just  do something other than accept our current course.     Something

I reckon you and the other mods will be working shifts once Bolton's sacking is announced and this site goes berko.

Good luck.

Thanks Paul

A coach change always raises some pretty strong emotions.

This one, if it occurs or not, looms as a bit more of an issue and more emotional because people are much more invested.
The process still has wide support, and many regard the coach and process as inseparable.
Whatever happens debate will no doubt be vigorous in the coming days. All we ask is that it's conducted with civility.
I don't think anyone posts on here who in the end doesn't want to see a successful Carlton
We sometimes just disagree as to the best method to achieve that outcome.

(and while I was writing that we had a little bit of an outburst to indicate the extent of the feelings,
It's natural to be upset...but it's a bit of a waste of your energy if you want to start throwing abuse around. The posts wont last.)

We are in the habit of losing, administration, coaches, players and now one by one the supporters just accept it. As supporters we have continued to swallow the crap the club sends us hook line and sinker preying on our loyalty. That  dawn is just over the hill they tell us, light ahead we hear, we all have belief in the coach and the football department plan.  What rubbish just a con.  I don’t think the coach even believes it anymore.  What’s the solution?  We need change to change. Something, a spark, to ignite us all from the top on down to you and me,  sack Bolton, Barker or 1 of the other dozen assistants we have, just  do something other than accept our current course.     Something

That "something" needs to be very well considered and backed up by real analysis. No more knee jerk BS. Although I guess it's too late for that, if rumours are to be believed.

I haven't seen groundswell like this since Ratten lost to Gold Coast in 2012.

I haven't seen groundswell like this since Ratten lost to Gold Coast in 2012.

Yep. Today was shocking. Normally Bomber fans would be rubbing it in but they know they are crap too.

Bolton arrived at Hawthorn in a premiership year (2008) and enjoyed their success up until the time he joined us. His first senior coaching wins were with a team that I could have coached to victory. He has never been associated with a senior AFL team that has had to face significant adversity or public scrutiny. He actually ‘lived the dream’ at Hawthorn.

If he’d been Hardwick’s right hand man or Buckley’s right hand man and witnessed the overcoming of significant external pressures and ordinary on field performances, then we might say that he’s got the experience to weather the storm with us. 

Unfortunately he hasn’t been.......and I don’t think he can. 

Geeez Marchbank was far from our worst.Newman played like spud. Bloody hell,we started with 2 players down in Lang and Fasolo. Played the worst wet weather football I've ever seen. Weitering was great today. Kreuzer cracked in. The more I see of Stocker the more I think he'll be real good.
The more I see of Kennedy the less I like. Another abject failure.
Cunningham looks OK. The baqckline isn't the problem, it's the way we butcher the ball into attack and in general play. 2 top rate forwards, solid backline, reasonable midfield. We should be better.
Coach is cooked.

Perfect summary. Midfield is just way too young to be able to compete at this level. Simply too many kids without any cover. Won’t win another game unless the balance changes which can’t see how that can happen with the list we have.

Dow looked much better today, especially in the second half. His kicking is still average but he showed a lot of pace to get clear of traffic and get the ball moving. Casboult is doing OK down back and weitering was probably our best.

Quite a few times we kicked forward to no one. Its a sign of a side still struggling to gel and preempt each other, allowing disposals to happen quicker.  Too often we get caught: another symptom of a lack of preemption and confidence in a team mate.

No answers other than time. Our young players are getting quite an education

Won’t win another game unless the balance changes which can’t see how that can happen with the list we have.

Maybe ‘can’t see how that can happen with the list we have’ ., should read ‘ can’t see how this can happen with the current ages of the list we have’

We have a number of talented kids who need time including some of our talls who are still trying to get there (We’re always told that talls take long.....but we are impatient.)  Weitering is getting bigger, stronger and more confident every year and by the time he’s 25 / 26 he’ll control the backline and do so for another 5-6 year. (How’s his progress compared with the No 2 pick of his year Josh Schache??). Likewise Harry McKay’s brother, still a mile off but North have no doubt he’ll make it. In the meantime his twin brother is expected to hold our forward line together.

They are only 2 examples, there are plenty more on our list.  How do we conjure some success for the next 2 years while we play catch up??

Sacking Bolton won't necessarily derail the club, McCartney did a lot of the ground work at Footscray but they gave him the bullet for Beveridge and a couple of years later they were holding up the cup.
Bolton was unproven and always a risky appointment, and he's had a fair crack at it, if you could see improvement things might be different.

Dow looked much better today, especially in the second half. His kicking is still average but he showed a lot of pace to get clear of traffic and get the ball moving. Casboult is doing OK down back and weitering was probably our best.

Quite a few times we kicked forward to no one. Its a sign of a side still struggling to gel and preempt each other, allowing disposals to happen quicker.  Too often we get caught: another symptom of a lack of preemption and confidence in a team mate.

No answers other than time. Our young players are getting quite an education

I believe the new coach has a clock that speeds up time, built by the Irish. It can do 1 hour in 45 minutes.

Perfect summary. Midfield is just way too young to be able to compete at this level. Simply too many kids without any cover. Won’t win another game unless the balance changes which can’t see how that can happen with the list we have.

I agree shawny.
While I can see the potential of our young mids, it lacks the protection and experience around them. Their age also means inconsistencies for a while.
It's hard to comprehend our best and poor performances are by the same group . Yet that is inconsistency by definition. Need to take a deep breath and remain united.

Obviously effort is unconditional. But in terms of actual performance, we were a severely depleted side today.

On our list we have 11 players with 90 or more games experience to their name. Just 11.

From that 11, 6 of them did not play today. 5 through injury/suspension and 1 of them is a backup ruck who was not good enough to get picked (Lobbe).
Of the remaining 5 who did play, 2 of them are not in our best 22 (Casboult, Fasolo) and 1 is borderline (E. Curnow). Leaving only Cripps and Kreuzer from our most experienced 11 players who deserved to be out there.

Simpson - 314
Murphy - 258
Thomas - 248
Kreuzer - 179
Ed Curnow - 154
Jones - 119
Casboult - 113
Fasolo - 104
Lobbe - 100
Cripps - 92
Docherty - 92

We were a rudderless ship today, and a lack of leadership out on the ground couldn't have come at a worse time.

Essendon were missing better players.

Essendon were missing better players.

Better players is subjective, and besides the point.

Who did we have out there that was capable of taking control of the situation?

Cripps was up to his eyeballs with his tagger and everyone else is fresh out of nappies or lucky to be getting a game.

Zaharakis, Heppel, Hooker, Hurley, Bellchambers, Baguley, Merrett all played 90+ games each, which is more experience than what our lot had.

The guy that beat Cripps has played 2 games.

Dark days indeed guys and probably more ahead of us. We have to back in the club though and ride with whatever the decision is with the coach etc. Let's not turn on each other. I know I find our games excruciating to watch but somehow a little light stays on when I think about some of the great times I've had watching the Blueboys. I can only hope those experiences can come about again - I'm not getting any younger. My only solace is that we do have some good talent on our list - hopefully we can build on that.

The guy that beat Cripps has played 2 games.

Thank you Sandra Sully.

Now back to THE POINT.

Cripps was beaten, he needed help.

Who from the side that was out there has the experience required to stand up and say 'follow me' and cover for him?

Our best bet was a bloke who was famous for having the nickname Humphrey FFS.
Can you see a problem with this picture?
No Simmo.
No Daisy.
No Murphy (opinions aside, he'll at least give the boys a spray and a rev up)
No Jones
No Docherty

No 1031 games of experience available between those 5 players to rally the kids.

Perfect summary. Midfield is just way too young to be able to compete at this level. Simply too many kids without any cover. Won’t win another game unless the balance changes which can’t see how that can happen with the list we have.

Big blunder by SOS in the off season  imo - could've taken Barlow or a Jye Bolton type or even a Tom Bell type to help at the coal face....but chose more scrawny kids who are a mile off the pace....

Perhaps SOS is more the problem rather than the panacea?

Big blunder by SOS in the off season  imo - could've taken Barlow or a Jye Bolton type or even a Tom Bell type to help at the coal face....but chose more scrawny kids who are a mile off the pace....

Perhaps SOS is more the problem rather than the panacea?

Who decides the list profile?? Is that purely a SOS decision?

Who decides the list profile?? Is that purely a SOS decision?

Good question.
As I recall our public comment pre draft was that we'd look to add to the middle age bracket. 21- 25 or thereabouts. I think Gibbons was a good choice and fits the profile. Then we draft young Cottrell. The latter being a very young underdeveloped project player. I can't follow I'm afraid.

Big blunder by SOS in the off season  imo - could've taken Barlow or a Jye Bolton type or even a Tom Bell type to help at the coal face....but chose more scrawny kids who are a mile off the pace....

Perhaps SOS is more the problem rather than the panacea?

I think SOS has In general done well accumulating talent, but have to agree that he dropped the ball on the decisions to recruit Cotrell and O’Dwyer. And not choosing a second player at the mid year draft.

One of our problems today, and there were many, is that we had 12 players coming out of the past four drafts and yet it was the more experienced players who let us down. Newman, Fasolo and Lang were disastrous, while Cripps was well held, whereas Heppel, Hurley and Hooker were very good. Players aged 25 to 30 is our major weakness and until we get more good players in that age range we are going to struggle.

The guy that beat Cripps has played 2 games.

The guy that 'beat Cripps' was shepherding him out of the contest and running into him and grabbing him as soon as the ball was bounced. Cripps could have got a free kick from every single centre bounce and did not: the Umpires were not even looking. Their attention was on the contest that Cripps was not allowed to get to.

We lost the game when kreuzer was lining up for goal and thanked it on the full in the second quarter.

Didn't get near scoring for two quarters after this.

Soul destroying stuff.  He was within 30 of goal.

^ disagree, they weren’t up before then at all.

^ disagree, they weren’t up before then at all.

Agree to disagree.

Come the moment come the man.

We've been blaming casboult for this stuff for years, about time Humphrey cost us a game through other ways rather than not breaking down.

Crash,  when is the club going to man up and query the treatment Cripps gets?   FMD,  if it was a tigers it pussies player you'd hear no end of squealing.

Crash,  when is the club going to man up and query the treatment Cripps gets?   FMD,  if it was a tigers it pussies player you'd hear no end of squealing.

I watched the entire game and he was given very close attention after the first quarter. At least 10 or more times he was held by his jumper or arm off the ball. His opponents at times were watching him and not the ball at all. I gave up in the last quarter. Made no difference by then. He should have approached the umpires at half time to ask for a please explain. I am certain as a captain it is not outside the rules to question what is been given too much attention. Tagging is one thing. Holding an opponent off the ball is a holding the man or illegal shepard. Free kick. If I saw at least 10, there must have been more that were outside the view of the cameras. He should have spoke up. I have seen captains do it before. Joel Selwood has.

Crash,  when is the club going to man up and query the treatment Cripps gets?   FMD,  if it was a tigers it pussies player you'd hear no end of squealing.

Patience.

You whinge about the umpires only when your window is open.  That way you get that favouritism when its required.

Whilst we are battling at the bottom favourable umpiring will not help us get anywhere but 17th.

That's light years ahead of 18th.  We'd have to win at least three more games.

That's light years ahead of 18th.  We'd have to win at least three more games.

Not to forget 17th place got a 83 point belting this round. ;D

We lost the game when kreuzer was lining up for goal and thanked it on the full in the second quarter.

Didn't get near scoring for two quarters after this.

Soul destroying stuff.  He was within 30 of goal.

Not to mention Lang had 3 shots from almost same position on each occasion & didn't come close with any of them.....at least kick one ya spud, after 2 sighters.....

Lang & Fasolo can never play for this team again.....ever.

I don't even care that it was Essendon.......I sat there today & didn't utter a word the entire game, just shook my head a lot.

Cripps looked as though he had the weight of the world on his shoulders......Walsh is the only one who appears to look out for him out there. This playing group is done, they look confused, they play confused, the midfield & forward line are so out of sync it's embarrassing to watch....the players, the supporters, no-one cares anymore....I cannot believe we've actually gone backwards from last year, didn't think that were possible, but here we are.

The thing that annoys me most is that we've got some serious talent out there.....we really do, but this bloke (Bolton) just can't tap into it and it's time for him to realise that and do the honourable thing. He's had a decent crack at it, the Club have certainly given him a decent crack at it, but now he has to swallow his pride, put his hand up & say "I've tried, but I've failed". Bolton is a likeable guy, he clearly loves the gig & wants to be successful at it.....and good on him for that, but he now has to take stock of his performance & admit that his time done.....for the sake his reputation and the future of the Club we all love.....

Thank you Sandra Sully.

Now back to THE POINT.

Cripps was beaten, he needed help.

Who from the side that was out there has the experience required to stand up and say 'follow me' and cover for him?

Our best bet was a bloke who was famous for having the nickname Humphrey FFS.
Can you see a problem with this picture?
No Simmo.
No Daisy.
No Murphy (opinions aside, he'll at least give the boys a spray and a rev up)
No Jones
No Docherty

No 1031 games of experience available between those 5 players to rally the kids.

Krud, you can’t continue to defend week in week out. Sometimes things are not as rosy as you want to believe they are.

You can make excuses to support any argument. They had 6 of there best 10 players out, are average at best yet we looked awful and never fired a shot. And the players you list excluding Jones and Doc are 3 guys that most like them one week and want them retired the next.

I agree we were too young but where we differ in opinion is we are in year 4 of a full rebuild and if it was done in balance we would have enough depth to allow cover injures to the older blokes which as we know you need to expect. Furthermore the drop in levels week to week is just too drastic. Add that to the fact we have won 3 games in the last season and a half and I understand why so many on here are pessimistic.

Our list build is miles out of balance age wise which as a by product gives us no cover.

We have a list of kids with a handful of older senior players. And the senior blokes we have are only just going too.  Nothing in between.

We lost the game when kreuzer was lining up for goal and thanked it on the full in the second quarter.

Didn't get near scoring for two quarters after this.

Soul destroying stuff.  He was within 30 of goal.

You left out Lang's numerous poor misses.

Our list build is miles out of balance age wise which as a by-product gives us no cover.

We have a list of kids with a handful of older senior players. And the senior blokes we have are only just going too.  Nothing in between.

The club had no choice but trade out players to get into several drafts. They have not been able to trade in quality to replace them. We are missing the older quality players and badly need them.

Krud, you can’t continue to defend week in week out. Sometimes things are not as rosy as you want to believe they are.

You can make excuses to support any argument. They had 6 of there best 10 players out, are average at best yet we looked awful and never fired a shot. And the players you list excluding Jones and Doc are 3 guys that most like them one week and want them retired the next.

I agree we were too young but where we differ in opinion is we are in year 4 of a full rebuild and if it was done in balance we would have enough depth to allow cover injures to the older blokes which as we know you need to expect. Furthermore the drop in levels week to week is just too drastic. Add that to the fact we have won 3 games in the last season and a half and I understand why so many on here are pessimistic.

Our list build is miles out of balance age wise which as a by product gives us no cover.

We have a list of kids with a handful of older senior players. And the senior blokes we have are only just going too.  Nothing in between.

It's not about defending. It's about looking deeper as to the why.

Remember we sacked ratten in 2012 for missing finals after being favourites in round 4. Performance wise we were very much down on what we expected.

In reality though we had so many injuries and sometimes that's enough to ruin a season... And a career.

So excuse me for looking a bit beyond the 'sack the coach' headline to work out why we might be struggling to maintain some early season form (albeit unlucky form)

Not to mention Lang had 3 shots from almost same position on each occasion & didn't come close with any of them.....at least kick one ya spud, after 2 sighters.....

Lang & Fasolo can never play for this team again.....ever.

I don't even care that it was Essendon.......I sat there today & didn't utter a word the entire game, just shook my head a lot.

Cripps looked as though he had the weight of the world on his shoulders......Walsh is the only one who appears to look out for him out there. This playing group is done, they look confused, they play confused, the midfield & forward line are so out of sync it's embarrassing to watch....the players, the supporters, no-one cares anymore....I cannot believe we've actually gone backwards from last year, didn't think that were possible, but here we are.

The thing that annoys me most is that we've got some serious talent out there.....we really do, but this bloke (Bolton) just can't tap into it and it's time for him to realise that and do the honourable thing. He's had a decent crack at it, the Club have certainly given him a decent crack at it, but now he has to swallow his pride, put his hand up & say "I've tried, but I've failed". Bolton is a likeable guy, he clearly loves the gig & wants to be successful at it.....and good on him for that, but he now has to take stock of his performance & admit that his time done.....for the sake his reputation and the future of the Club we all love.....

Nicely put.

Put simply, the players have stopped believing in what they are being asked to do. Very very hard to be enthusiastic when that happens.

I'm not a great fan of Bolton BUT he had too many kids out there trying to do men's jobs.

The players looked OK in the rooms and pre game on the ground, quite effective and sharp.

It then quickly disintegrated as if they have zero confidence in what should happen next.  No guidance whatsoever and Bolton can't cover for that with the options hopelessly limited.

Our obsession with youth is costing us badly, and when injuries strike, the shell of the team that's left panic.

Any replacement coach will need even more patience as this is indeed (IMO) a defining point in our history.

We MUST target big bodied experienced players if we're to arrest the balance

I'm not a great fan of Bolton BUT he had too many kids out there trying to do men's jobs.

The players looked OK in the rooms and pre game on the ground, quite effective and sharp.

It then quickly disintegrated as if they have zero confidence in what should happen next.  No guidance whatsoever and Bolton can't cover for that with the options hopelessly limited.

Our obsession with youth is costing us badly, and when injuries strike, the shell of the team that's left panic.

Any replacement coach will need even more patience as this is indeed (IMO) a defining point in our history.

We MUST target big bodied experienced players if we're to arrest the balance

Meh, I don't buy it - Freo - leaders?

Fyfe, Mundy, Walters?, Matera?

Kreuzer - is he fit?

Older blokes we had out there - Special K, Crippa, Newman, Levi, Plow's 24 now?

Sure, maybe 1 or 2 mature mids short but that's shouldn't explain 22 lost blokes?

Didn't suggest that flyboy.  I was (indirectly) pointing the finger at others apart from Bolton.  We fold far too quickly or when we're anywhere near competitive, surrender any advantage. No hard edge whatsoever and what we do is more in hope than any belief

Didn't suggest that flyboy.  I was (indirectly) pointing the finger at others apart from Bolton.  We fold far too quickly or when we're anywhere near competitive, surrender any advantage. No hard edge whatsoever and what we do is more in hope than any belief

oh sure, agreed. But what is the reason so many of the young blokes - and many are 21-22 now - hardly young - throw in the towel.

Why is Crippa at 23 odd the only one that (until recently?) been able to soldier on....?

Why are they so frequently soft as butter - physically and mentally - why?

Yet they can go within a whisker of beating the Pies - why does the hierarchy not bleat in the media about the diabolical free kick disparity, the touched goal (by Elliot) in our game.

The Pies turn it into a major headline.

We say nothing at ALL.

MLG a big part of the cultural void imo.

You left out Lang's numerous poor misses.

That's because lang is an also ran.

Kreuzer is a heart and soul player.

When they make errors it goes through the entire team.

Remember the ire Murphy was copping for his shortcomings?

If we knew the answer to half those questions, we'd have a chance to correct them.  Even when we "fly the flag" when a player is dealt with unfair treatment, it shows little intent.

It's as if they've been behaviour conditioned and not emotionally reactive.

Our weak attempts at tackles cost us a goal or two every game with opponents sailing by, knowing it's probably going to be half hearted.

Don't start me on MLG ....

I can't believe so many Carlton fans got sucked into thinking we were favourites, the media keep pumping us up week after week and our fans keep biting!

Our team as it stands is decimated by injuries to the key senior players and there is nothing left but bruised and battered kids being lead by a novice, with a injured ruckmen for assistance!

Think harder people, we were not and never were favourites against the Aints or the Cheats!

Meh, I don't buy it - Freo - leaders?

Fyfe, Mundy, Walters?, Matera?

Kreuzer - is he fit?

Older blokes we had out there - Special K, Crippa, Newman, Levi, Plow's 24 now?

Sure, maybe 1 or 2 mature mids short but that's shouldn't explain 22 lost blokes?

Scoff all you like there are points of difference.

The freo blokes you mentioned played in freos grand final team a few years back and were genuinely top players in the competition at one point for a sustained period of their careers.

Our senior blokes (particularly the ones that are missing) are not.

Murphy and Thomas being the only exception and they havn't been near that form in 5 years.

Freo have topped up with conca, hamling, lobbe, and when you look through their team you realise that they are not playing the number of young skinny teenagers to carry them through only a couple.

Our senior players like Newman and McGovern are less than 70 games into their careers.

We are being led by sps, Dow, weitering, McKay, curnow.   Yes they're first round picks but none of them are more than highlight reel players at this point.

If we knew the answer to half those questions, we'd have a chance to correct them.  Even when we "fly the flag" when a player is dealt with unfair treatment, it shows little intent.

It's as if they've been behaviour conditioned and not emotionally reactive.

Our weak attempts at tackles cost us a goal or two every game with opponents sailing by, knowing it's probably going to be half hearted.

Don't start me on MLG ....

It's called "Going through the motions". People who don't really believe in what they are doing do this kind of thing.

oh sure, agreed. But what is the reason so many of the young blokes - and many are 21-22 now - hardly young - throw in the towel.

Why is Crippa at 23 odd the only one that (until recently?) been able to soldier on....?

Why are they so frequently soft as butter - physically and mentally - why?

Yet they can go within a whisker of beating the Pies - why does the hierarchy not bleat in the media about the diabolical free kick disparity, the touched goal (by Elliot) in our game.

The Pies turn it into a major headline.

We say nothing at ALL.

MLG a big part of the cultural void imo.

Cripps was visibly devastated after that Collingwood game.
He couldn't have given anymore that day.
He hasn't looked the same since.

Cripps was visibly devastated after that Collingwood game.
He couldn't have given anymore that day.
He hasn't looked the same since.

This is where our lack of media presence bites us, you could excuse them for leaving the field that day thinking it's the whole competition against you and nobody is sticking up for you!

Nobody is standing up for them off field, and I suspect this weekend's result is a consequence of the Daisy situation and the VFL decision, and yet it is not Daisy's fault!

Cripps was visibly devastated after that Collingwood game.
He couldn't have given anymore that day.
He hasn't looked the same since.

How does anyone feel when they have given their absolute best possible shot and still no joy?? Belief takes a huge hit and demoralisation can set it. We have witnessed that.

How does anyone feel when they have given their absolute best possible shot and still no joy?? Belief takes a huge hit and demoralisation can set it. We have witnessed that.

It's not that, it's the fact he receives little or not support!

Our midfield is very poorly coached, they do not know what they are doing!

Silvagni getting away with no scrutiny at all ,pressure on Bolton but sos recruiting has FAILED the club .if his surname was Rogers/ Hughes  he would be under extr3me pressure . All his players are to slow for example .

It's not that, it's the fact he receives little or not support!

Our midfield is very poorly coached, they do not know what they are doing!

I'd have to say that Cripps' belief in the way we are currently headed has taken a massive hit in the past couple of weeks. The fact he gets so little support would reinforce that belief - it's a symptom that things are not working properly and are not being fixed. That has to be corrected asap i.e. belief restored, or else Cripps, and others, will be looking for the exit.

Silvagni getting away with no scrutiny at all ,pressure on Bolton but sos recruiting has FAILED the club .if his surname was Rogers/ Hughes  he would be under extr3me pressure . All his players are to slow for example .

I would think his work is under scrutiny alright and as time goes on he will be judged accordingly.

Kennedy
Setterfield
Fisher
SPS

These four have been particularly underwhelming and questions need to be asked, particularly of the first two.

Fix the midfield and a lot of problems go away.

It's not that, it's the fact he receives little or not support!

Our midfield is very poorly coached, they do not know what they are doing!

This seems to be the crux of the problem....

When the midfield fails, it affects the backline and the forward line - all 3 segments fail.

As a collective, our midfield is not even a bad joke, it is worse....

They have no system, plan, strategy....to win the ball and use it well.

The blokes function as individuals not as a cohesive unit.

That's ok in U/12s but senior AFLlevel - it's laughable....

Couldn’t believe how slow Kennedy looked yesterday, felt like I could’ve done a better job.

Setterfield I thought worked hard but he hasnt had much run at it, I think he’ll be ok long term.

Dow had a few bursts which were exciting.

Fish was missing mostly and SPS tried hard at least.

Kennedy
Setterfield
Fisher
SPS

These four have been particularly underwhelming and questions need to be asked, particularly of the first two.

Fix the midfield and a lot of problems go away.

Particularly underwhelming so far imo.

Kennedy
Setterfield
Fisher
SPS

These four have been particularly underwhelming and questions need to be asked, particularly of the first two.

Fix the midfield and a lot of problems go away.

I think all four Prof.

Apart from one ripper game SPS has been ordinary overall.

Fisher - some good patches last year. This year, meh...at best.

Kennedy - injuries then strange non selections (some say a function of the Folau tweet?)

Setters - who knows, back after a knee but needs time in the 2s imo.

I'm hoping DeLuca will add some spark to our mids - we surely need some!

This seems to be the crux of the problem....

When the midfield fails, it affects the backline and the forward line - all 3 segments fail.

As a collective, our midfield is not even a bad joke, it is worse....

They have no system, plan, strategy....to win the ball and use it well.

The blokes function as individuals not as a cohesive unit.

That's ok in U/12s but senior AFLlevel - it's laughable....

Cripps knows that too and has lost his belief that we have the ability there to win games.

I can't believe so many Carlton fans got sucked into thinking we were favourites, the media keep pumping us up week after week and our fans keep biting!

Our team as it stands is decimated by injuries to the key senior players and there is nothing left but bruised and battered kids being lead by a novice, with a injured ruckmen for assistance!

Think harder people, we were not and never were favourites against the Aints or the Cheats!

They were missing way better players and they still pumped us.

Particularly underwhelming so far imo.

Dow and LOB should be included here.

Dow - is he the worst kick going around right now at senior AFL level?

Should not be playing 1s until this is redressed.

LOB - looking like a shocking waste of a top 10 draft pick....

And Ed Curnow  what to make of him not being played in his best role?

And Kreuz - clearly couldn't ruck yesterday - how badly injured is he?

Kennedy
Setterfield
Fisher
SPS

These four have been particularly underwhelming and questions need to be asked, particularly of the first two.

Fix the midfield and a lot of problems go away.

I reckon the second two.
Kennedy has played two games this year.
Setterfield has played 10 games total.
Fisher and SPS are not fit enough, do not get to enough contests and end up with 14 possessions.

None of our mids block or shepherd for each other.
It is an indictment on the coaching group.

I really wanted Sam Mitchell as an assistant. I think he will make a super coach.
Tough, uncompromising, successful, nasty, and doesn't care who he upsets.



 

There are a lot of justified concerns about some of the players but overall I'm prepared to see how this list would go with a different (hopefully better!) coaching regime and the injection of a couple of hard bodied, hard at it, mature mids.

And Ed Curnow  what to make of him not being played in his best role?

And Kreuz - clearly couldn't ruck yesterday - how badly injured is he?

Really? Ed was on Merrett until half time I think and had him covered. After that not sure where he went but it looked like Cunningham took the role on for whatever reason. I assume Ed was covering someone else but he wasn't being wasted up forward that I could see.
Kreuzer smashed Bellchambers, just smashed him

Really? Ed was on Merrett until half time I think and had him covered. After that not sure where he went but it looked like Cunningham took the role on for whatever reason. I assume Ed was covering someone else but he wasn't being wasted up forward that I could see.
Kreuzer smashed Bellchambers, just smashed him

Sorry Rocky - i didn't see much of yesterday's game - thankfully.

I'm talking about the overall season....

Really? Ed was on Merrett until half time I think and had him covered. After that not sure where he went but it looked like Cunningham took the role on for whatever reason. I assume Ed was covering someone else but he wasn't being wasted up forward that I could see.
Kreuzer smashed Bellchambers, just smashed him

Exactly, the tactics were sound, but the support players were too few in number and continued to make simply unforced errors with poor decision making. Bolton cannot kick the ball for them.

Time and time again there were kick DIRECTLY to the opposition, poor choices and little thought process. I think it is also worth noting this is the first year without in-play runners. This has hurt us more than people acknowledge.

Sorry Rocky - i didn't see much of yesterday's game - thankfully.

I'm talking about the overall season....

Ahhhhh, rightio. Yes, agree.
The fact that they used Ed yesterday EFFECTIVELY as a tagger only confuses me more as to why they wasted his talents for the other 9 weeks?

Exactly, the tactics were sound, but the support players were too few in number and continued to make simply unforced errors with poor decision making. Bolton cannot kick the ball for them.

Time and time again there were kick DIRECTLY to the opposition, poor choices and little thought process. I think it is also worth noting this is the first year without in-play runners. This has hurt us more than people acknowledge.

All true spf, but both on here and outside, it's falling on deaf ears.

They were missing way better players and they still pumped us.

CheatsFC still had their core senior leadership group out there to organise the kids.

Heppell, Hooker, Hurley, Bellchambers, Baguley, and another couple are part of 7 or more 100 game players, that's 100 games or more in the CheatsFC system, and another four or five 50 to 100 game players.

I said pre-match their injury situation was overstated by the media because it's mostly newcomers or kids they were missing. Fans get the impression they are young because of blokes like Saad is new to CheatsFC, but he's played 80 AFL games if only 30 or 40 for CheatsFC!

Exactly, the tactics were sound, but the support players were too few in number and continued to make simply unforced errors with poor decision making. Bolton cannot kick the ball for them.

Time and time again there were kick DIRECTLY to the opposition, poor choices and little thought process. I think it is also worth noting this is the first year without in-play runners. This has hurt us more than people acknowledge.

If the blokes don't know their roles - and how to execute before the siren sounds - a few runners aren't gong to change much.

I heard BB pull that one - I say BS.

If the blokes don't know their roles - and how to execute before the siren sounds - a few runners aren't gong to change much.

I heard BB pull that one - I say BS.

Rubbish, it's exactly the problem.

He's about the 3rd or 4th coach to discuss that this year, and he was responding to question that referenced the very idea that was suggested by another coach!

BB has repeatedly refused to volunteer or create opportunities for player to have excuses, so you can't hang him for answering a question from the media!

If the blokes don't know their roles - and how to execute before the siren sounds - a few runners aren't gong to change much.

I heard BB pull that one - I say BS.

It's not about runners it's about onfield leadership.

You put docherty, Simpson, Thomas and Jones into that team and they do the runners work for you.

Otherwise we are relying on weitering,  Levi, marchbank and plowman to do it.

All of them should be support cast at the moment and not the main event.

I said it pre game.  For each 100 plus game player we lose we weaken the output of two players.  1.  Due to someone else who is still learning needing to help lead, and 2.  Minimizing the output of a player who's had leadership from a different player before.  Not everyone instructs the same way.

Our issues are consistency based.  That wont be fixed by more change which is all I seem to see.

https://www.afl.com.au/video/2019-06-02/full-postmatch-bombers

Listen from about 4.40 to the end.

https://www.afl.com.au/video/2019-06-02/full-postmatch-bombers

Listen from about 4.40 to the end.

He'll not make any friends at CheatsFC saying stuff like that, I suspect he got nasty calls from Sheedy and Watson Snr after that statement!

Keep in mind our coterie club wanted to approach Worsfold and Teague to take over when Swann was trying to install Malthouse by white-anting Ratten! How much better would we be now if we'd have gotten Worsfold back then?

He'll not make any friends at CheatsFC saying stuff like that, I suspect he got nasty calls from Sheedy and Watson Snr after that statement!

Keep in mind our coterie club wanted to approach Worsfold and Teague to take over when Swann was trying to install Malthouse by white-anting Ratten! How much better would we be now if we'd have gotten Worsfold back then?

I think his honesty and logic should be broadcast at full volume in whatever board meetings are occuring at CFC.

Essendon are rubbish and we played the weakest team they have put on the park for ages. Their midfield is as soft as it gets and we just showed how soft and weak we are at the contest and how poorly motivated we are. Too many front runners who don't like to tough it out when it's hard and when Cripps is held.
Really missed Daisy, and that pains me to say it but he is a mainstay player now and dropping him was dumb.
SOS needs the blowtorch applied to him for not recruiting enough players with fight and heart,it's pathetic watching how weak and insipid we are. There is no excuse for that Essendon performance...

I think his honesty and logic should be broadcast at full volume in whatever board meetings are occuring at CFC.

Worsfold has always been open and honest, it's nearly got him sacked from CheatsFC multiple times! :o

Openness and honesty do not site well as Bumber Base!

There is a reason Darth Maul, and other devils, are represented in red and black! ;D

Essendon are rubbish and we played the weakest team they have put on the park for ages. Their midfield is as soft as it gets and we just showed how soft and weak we are at the contest and how poorly motivated we are. Too many front runners who don't like to tough it out when it's hard and when Cripps is held.
Really missed Daisy, and that pains me to say it but he is a mainstay player now and dropping him was dumb.
SOS needs the blowtorch applied to him for not recruiting enough players with fight and heart,it's pathetic watching how weak and insipid we are. There is no excuse for that Essendon performance...

I fully agree EB, too many high end picks who never had to work hard as a junior player, we need hungry players like a Gibbons or Jones who play as it's there last game.

I fully agree EB, too many high end picks who never had to work hard as a junior player, we need hungry players like a Gibbons or Jones who play as it's there last game.

This new DeLuca fella is a hard, hard worker....but no question, the kids we have are soft.

Late again thanks to the public holiday yesterday here. Will leave the coach sacking comments for elsewhere. I was at the end of my tether last week but gave them one more chance as I honestly thought Essendon were gettable on Sunday. In the first quarter, they were poor.....but we were worse...by a country mile. 10 minutes into the second quarter I was done and can't watch anymore...been a supporter since 1981 but we are a rabble. Only a handful of blokes could be happy with their output on the weekend. The talk of Marchbank in earlier comments....said it before...he's a nothing player...contributes nothing and right now Casboult is a better defender than him. Plowman is just a butcher and has no footy smarts. Throw in Kennedy and Lang and Fasolo and there's 5 players traded into the club who wouldn't get a game at another club right now. Kennedy had 8 possessions on a fumbly/wet/greasy day where you need big bodied blokes busting in and continually pushing the ball forward. He's a dud and along with Lang should be shipped off at the end of the season.

Newman turned it over a bit but I like him...he has a go, as does Stocker. Stocker has a bit to learn but will get much better.

When Dale Thomas dominates in the VFL and is our best by a long way you know the club has zero depth....and all due respect to him as he's been on of our better players this year.

Said it last week, but you could draw a line through about 10 players at least who aren't up to it right now. But we're in a Catch 22 position....we can't just keep culling and loading up with young kids and speculative picks in the draft. We need to be bold and offer up a couple of good kids and target exactly the type of player we need. Do we need McKay, Curnow, McGovern and Kerr all at the same time?

Kreuzer continues to give his all but looks tired and slow and he'll hit the wall eventually.....and Lobbe and Phillips are just backups...nothing more.

Too many of the kids have stalled and just don't contribute. SPS and Fisher just go missing for long periods and right now Fisher just gets the ball and gets rid of it as quickly as he can. Dow shows flashes but if you can't kick the ball properly his impact is going to be limited.

Not sure where we go from here but the harsh reality is we've been treading water for the last 20 years. How many coaches has Kade Simpson seen given the @rse during his tenure? He'd probably hold that unenviable record too I think?

.......................

Not sure where we go from here but the harsh reality is we've been treading water for the last 20 years. How many coaches has Kade Simpson seen given the @rse during his tenure? He'd probably hold that unenviable record too I think?

Pagan, Ratten, Malthouse, Bolton. If he stays long enough, he might see Mr 2020 given the ar$e.