They are talking about potentially shuffling games and venues in Melb.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: capcom on June 27, 2021, 07:45:59 pm
If it plays to our fortunes, anywhere here will do. But it certainly screws up schedules.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 27, 2021, 07:58:54 pm
Freo at home will be tough but Freo in Victoria would have us favorites to win........Think Taberner is also out injured and Fyfe might have missed this weeks game. While the Crows and Freo are lesser teams every win is vital when the coach is under pressure and I'd like to think the players know they need to support the coach and back up this week with another win vs a very average team in Fremantle imo.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: PaulP on June 27, 2021, 08:11:05 pm
We did pretty well against Freo last time around, but I'd be wary of getting too cocky. They sit 9th at the moment, and will be a very different proposition to R3 IMO.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: PaulP on June 27, 2021, 08:17:56 pm
Fyfe is back next week according to afl.com.au, Taberner is an unknown at this point. Darcy is emerging as a top shelf ruck, and will be a handful for TDK.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: townsendcalling on June 28, 2021, 10:45:33 am
Fyfe is back next week according to afl.com.au, Taberner is an unknown at this point. Darcy is emerging as a top shelf ruck, and will be a handful for TDK.
Darcy is big and hard to get around, similar to the Crows guy........ but in the end Tom just jumped higher than him.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: PaulP on June 28, 2021, 10:49:17 am
I've got a feeling they will bring Levi back into the side straight from suspension for this one.
I don't know if Levi is available for this one thanks to his 2 week ban, but based on his last hit out in the VFL (and his approach all year really) with Pittonet out he is a walk up start again.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: laj on June 28, 2021, 11:58:03 am
I don't know if Levi is available for this one thanks to his 2 week ban, but based on his last hit out in the VFL (and his approach all year really) with Pittonet out he is a walk up start again.
Didn't he just get a week?
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: LP on June 28, 2021, 12:00:40 pm
It was nice to see those little signs from SoJ of what he can do in the midfield. Not the rucking that was bullcrap, but in terms of 2nd efforts, tackling, inside work, he is clearly a genuine midfield option for when Cripps or Walsh need a break. I don't expect SoJ to provide the run and spread, but he'd be a nice tall compliment to a good ruck if he wasn't rucking himself.
I hope they give him the chance again, did we run him as a tagger once before on Fyfe?
On the rucks, I thought most of this spreading the load stuff worked quite well, and I've got to wonder why we haven't done more of it to date. It's probably a bit fatiguing for the guys new to the gig, but it makes a huge difference to the 1st rucks ability to run out a game. Of course it depends on the opponent.
Did you notice Cripps and Walsh roving to the SoJ as the losing ruck, I can't say I ever seen this before, we just do not do it and it's a dead set puzzle why we don't. It's one of those things the more you do it the better you get at reading the opponents!
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: townsendcalling on June 28, 2021, 12:30:05 pm
"Casboult was handed a two-match suspension, which can be reduced to a one-game ban with an early plea,"
I hope he took the early plea!!!
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: WASurfer on June 28, 2021, 01:20:30 pm
Casboult in for mine. Darcy and Lobb will work TDK over. Casboult's last game in the VFL was pretty good from all accounts.
I'd like to see Newman in the starting 22 as well. He added a bit when he came on yesterday. Freo have some dangerous smalls in Henry, Switkowski and Schultz. Having Newman in might just be what we need to let Saad play like he did yesterday.
That would mean Murphy and someone else going out.....possibly Newnes?
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: DJC on June 28, 2021, 01:41:10 pm
I thought it was just one week, think he needs to play if available, dont want to over burden TDK and while Jack will always compete hard these are big units he is up against and the mini ruckman theory usually works for a short time before it blows up in your face and starts costing. Richmond have tried to cheat with Pickett but its hasnt worked of late and I reckon Levi is an essential, Freo are not overly tall down back either so both TDK and Levi might be able to do some damage when resting and take some heat off Harry.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: Lods on June 28, 2021, 05:28:58 pm
Step 1 The response The response this week (as opposed to last week) was exactly what we expected from a team under pressure. Players came with a committed attitude. It was particularly pleasing to see Williams response to the criticism. (J Brown will probably take credit for firing him up ::) ::) ) Our leaders for the most part (Cripps, Weitering and Jones) set the example. The latter two were a formidable combination. ...and Walsh, who had a down game against GWS, bounced back like the champion he already is.
Step 2 The back-up Having performed like that the very worst thing that could happen would be to not back it up with an equally committed performance. That's the test. We'll have some down games but it's important to string together a few good ones in a row to build on the confidence gained from the weekend. These are the situations that bond players and form the basis of really good 'teams'. They'll come through the difficult times with the shared experience which will make them better as a unit.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: blueday on June 28, 2021, 07:17:40 pm
Think we need to bring in Casboult and Honey. Murphy and another out (likely Martin, he looks broken). Ironically Martin played ok, but I worry we are making the injury worse!
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: LoveNavy on June 28, 2021, 07:19:49 pm
Fyfe a likely inclusion. Tabberner out a few weeks
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: kruddler on June 28, 2021, 07:36:48 pm
Apparantly Zac Williams has been suspended and will be unavailable for this match.
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/967883
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: rocky on June 28, 2021, 07:45:33 pm
Zac Williams, Carlton, has been charged with Engaging in Rough Conduct against Ben Keays, Adelaide Crows, during the third quarter of the Round 15 match between Carlton and the Adelaide Crows, played at Marvel Stadium on Sunday, June 27, 2021.
In summary, he can accept a one-match sanction with an early plea.
Based on the available evidence, the incident was assessed as Intentional Conduct, Low Impact, High Contact. The incident was classified as a one-match sanction as a first offence. The player can accept a one-match sanction with an early plea.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: rocky on June 28, 2021, 07:56:59 pm
OK, so Murphy and Williams are definite outs. I'd be tempted to give Eddie a rest too. Levi comes back in to give TDK a chop out. I'm hoping the club isn't lying and Fisher comes back in. Did someone like Honey do enough to get chance. Not from what I saw. Think Ramsey did OK. Would be happy for him to get a run.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 28, 2021, 08:08:03 pm
Williams played ok but I think he is one we can cover with Newman who I thought was good when he came on as the sub. Ramsey played well in the twos but I'd be tempted to play Kemp as the former is still very light in the body. Honey didnt do enough vs the Bullants IMO even though his previous games were ok.....
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: kruddler on June 28, 2021, 08:33:15 pm
Williams played ok but I think he is one we can cover with Newman who I thought was good when he came on as the sub. Ramsey played well in the twos but I'd be tempted to play Kemp as the former is still very light in the body. Honey didnt do enough vs the Bullants IMO even though his previous games were ok.....
Williams was voted 2nd BOG behind Walsh by the coaches.
Walsh got the perfect 10. Williams got 7 votes.
'Played OK' is selling him a bit short.
He plays in a position where we might have some cover is probably a better way of putting it.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: Lods on June 28, 2021, 08:37:10 pm
Williams was voted 2nd BOG behind Walsh by the coaches.
Walsh got the perfect 10. Williams got 7 votes.
'Played OK' is selling him a bit short.
He plays in a position where we might have some cover is probably a better way of putting it.
I'll disagree with the coaches and I thought he was ok but not influential, I would have had Walsh BOG with Weitering and Jones as our next best. Picking up Tex Walker for example is a bit tougher than winning kicks across half back IMHO. I thought TDK was one of our best but he only had 6 possies and didnt rate with many on this site, I just have a different way of valuing players games..
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: DJC on June 28, 2021, 10:27:42 pm
I'll disagree with the coaches and I thought he was ok but not influential, I would have had Walsh BOG with Weitering and Jones as our next best. Picking up Tex Walker for example is a bit tougher than winning kicks across half back IMHO. I thought TDK was one of our best but he only had 6 possies and didnt rate with many on this site, I just have a different way of valuing players games..
TDK largely negated O'Brien - that in itself was a huge win for us.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 29, 2021, 09:01:14 am
TDK largely negated O'Brien - that in itself was a huge win for us.
Ed Curnow was another who influenced the game by picking up Laird after half time and keeping him to 7 possies after he had 25 in the first half so I gave him a vote. Plus I thought Ed played a very good last quarter when the game was on the line. Williams played one of his better games but I just measured it by degree of difficulty and felt players like Weitering, TDK and Curnow had tougher roles.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: townsendcalling on June 29, 2021, 10:25:48 am
Anyone fancy a trip to Geelong??
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: blueboys_1 on June 29, 2021, 01:54:05 pm
The AFL must be looking at Princes Park as a viable option for low attendance games.
First thing I thought of when the talk of Victorian hubs and footy frenzy. Must play games at PP, limited crowd big deal. Freo Carl should be at PP, even no crowd, as long as we get a leg up to chalk up a W.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: laj on June 29, 2021, 05:56:36 pm
Looks like Tassie or Geelong. Geelong has merit seeing I live there.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: crashlander on June 29, 2021, 07:25:11 pm
At least 2 changes. Murphy out for at least 2 weeks, Williams out for 1. No word on Eddie Betts, Adam Saad, Jacob Weitering or any of the the other niggles from the Adelaide game. :( (I don't remember them all: Silvagni was one.)
I could live with Williams being suspended had the other similar cases been paid. But they weren't. Fogarty didn't even get a mention.
I think Casboult will probably return, which gives us more height. But our team is remarkably short of talls at this time.
I wouldn't mind giving Honey a game. I don't think either Willo or Parks did enough to merit a call-up. Cottrell maybe? he didn't star, but he wasn't a disaster. Ramsay might be an outside selection. But if the game is wet, I'd prefer Honey. The lad is stonger.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: kruddler on June 29, 2021, 08:22:11 pm
I'll disagree with the coaches and I thought he was ok but not influential, I would have had Walsh BOG with Weitering and Jones as our next best. Picking up Tex Walker for example is a bit tougher than winning kicks across half back IMHO. I thought TDK was one of our best but he only had 6 possies and didnt rate with many on this site, I just have a different way of valuing players games..
Walsh 10 Williams 7 Weitering 6
The rest Adelaide players.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 29, 2021, 09:41:00 pm
Worried about this game, Freo are a better side than when we played them last. It will take out best to knock them off. Would have loved to play them at PP or the G, even their ground would have suited us better. Tassie or that crap hole in Geelong will not provide us with any advantage.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: Shakin77 on June 29, 2021, 09:48:10 pm
At least 2 changes. Murphy out for at least 2 weeks, Williams out for 1. No word on Eddie Betts, Adam Saad, Jacob Weitering or any of the the other niggles from the Adelaide game. :( (I don't remember them all: Silvagni was one.)
I could live with Williams being suspended had the other similar cases been paid. But they weren't. Fogarty didn't even get a mention.
I think Casboult will probably return, which gives us more height. But our team is remarkably short of talls at this time.
I wouldn't mind giving Honey a game. I don't think either Willo or Parks did enough to merit a call-up. Cottrell maybe? he didn't star, but he wasn't a disaster. Ramsay might be an outside selection. But if the game is wet, I'd prefer Honey. The lad is stonger.
Newman was the medical sub and played pretty well. He would come into the 22.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 30, 2021, 12:05:21 am
Worried about this game, Freo are a better side than when we played them last. It will take out best to knock them off. Would have loved to play them at PP or the G, even their ground would have suited us better. Tassie or that crap hole in Geelong will not provide us with any advantage.
Wouldnt want to play them at home and I reckon if the Crows game was in Adelaide we might have lost too. I remember Freo playing well at Geelong vs the Cats so Tassie in the cold might suit us better than them IMO. Fyfe back wont help though and onball they have a bit of power with Mundy, Cerra, Serong, Brayshaw and Walters if he plays through there. Going to be tough especially with the Walters matchup. They dont have much firepower down forward with Taberner out or much height down back but do have two decent sized rucks so Levi has to play IMO.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 30, 2021, 07:38:24 am
Wouldnt want to play them at home and I reckon if the Crows game was in Adelaide we might have lost too. I remember Freo playing well at Geelong vs the Cats so Tassie in the cold might suit us better than them IMO. Fyfe back wont help though and onball they have a bit of power with Mundy, Cerra, Serong, Brayshaw and Walters if he plays through there. Going to be tough especially with the Walters matchup. They dont have much firepower down forward with Taberner out or much height down back but do have two decent sized rucks so Levi has to play IMO.
Its their midfield as you say that worries me also, I'd get Jack reacquainted with Fyfe again, just task him with giving him the absolute craps all day. Cripps/Ed v Mundy/Brayshaw?
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: Blue Moon on June 30, 2021, 12:56:11 pm
With Murphy and Williams out I would think Newman would be retained in the 22 and Casboult returned. While Silvagni, Cripps and Weitering doing the 2nd ruck worked out ok, and I wouldn't mind if we looked at this sort of thing long term, but it needs to be well planned out. I am not sure about Eddie as a bruised hip often becomes worse after you cooled down. If that is the case hopefully Ramsay or Honey might get a go. Also I would expect one of these guys to be the medical sub.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: LP on June 30, 2021, 02:06:42 pm
Cottrell could come back in, although they played him forward in the maggoos.
Carroll looks a likely type, the glimpses he gives us are as good as any, but only glimpses.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: DJC on June 30, 2021, 04:37:00 pm
Looks like the game will be played at Kardinia Park. I might get along to this one :)
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: spf on June 30, 2021, 08:02:29 pm
We'd be left with a 4 day break as we are supposed to play Friday night.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: Baggers on July 01, 2021, 09:19:17 am
Surprised to see we're favourites. Perhaps Freo's record at Kardinia Park?
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in Perth
Post by: Thryleon on July 01, 2021, 10:05:02 am
Docherty out is going to be interesting.
We are in real danger to succumbing of sheer weight of numbers.
This has been one of those seasons where we never really got going and had about 10 on the injury list all season.
By my count, we have lost more than we have gained back too.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in ... Geelong?
Post by: LP on July 01, 2021, 10:59:30 am
Freo is a tough ask for us, they are strong in all areas we are weak, Freo are travelling forward off the dominance of good form in the ruck and KPFs. Darcy, Lobb, Taberner, Schultz are all in good form. Obviously some will be out this week or under injury clouds, but even so it's a big ask for us.
Even before we lost Pittonet we would have struggled.
We can expect our guys to rove the losing ruck again, but after last week opposition will be switched on to that, and in fact even after 1/2-time the Crows negated it very well.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in ... Geelong?
Post by: townsendcalling on July 01, 2021, 11:08:16 am
Damn! Better for the club but not for me ... another game to watch on screen.
From what I've heard it's at The G because of the troubles getting so many broadcasts organised at different venues, they are stretched too thin and some might not have been covered. Same reason why it wasn't going to end up in Tassie regardless of other reasons.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in ... Geelong?
Post by: DJC on July 01, 2021, 01:30:42 pm
From what I've heard it's at The G because of the troubles getting so many broadcasts organised at different venues, they are stretched too thin and some might not have been covered. Same reason why it wasn't going to end up in Tassie regardless of other reasons.
Particularly with interstate commentators and "experts" locked down.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in ... Geelong?
Post by: Thryleon on July 01, 2021, 02:16:33 pm
meanwhile down in Carlton....
There is an oval available that used to be an AFL venue. Why not just play it there on Saturday arvo?
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle in ... Geelong?
Post by: Gointocarlton on July 01, 2021, 02:18:18 pm
Agree. Even without crowds and televise it. My understanding is there arent enough OB vans.
My mate owns an OB van and there are several private other vans available but CH7 wont pay this time, they use the privates for the tennis sometimes when they are stretched..
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle at MCG?
Post by: flyboy77 on July 01, 2021, 05:50:58 pm
Emergencies: Matthew Cottrell, Josh Honey, Lochie O'Brien, Luke Parks
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle at MCG?
Post by: WASurfer on July 01, 2021, 06:48:41 pm
Based on players unavailable, the team looks okay on paper. Not sure what Williamson's VFL form has been like but probably not too many other options with both Williams and Docherty going out. Any idea on what the weather forecast is like for Saturday evening over there? A wet one might suit us a bit better.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle at MCG?
Post by: PaulP on July 01, 2021, 06:50:12 pm
Based on players unavailable, the team looks okay on paper. Not sure what Williamson's VFL form has been like but probably not too many other options with both Williams and Docherty going out. Any idea on what the weather forecast is like for Saturday evening over there? A wet one might suit us a bit better.
Showers developing on Friday and a shower or two on Sat.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle at MCG?
Post by: rocky on July 01, 2021, 07:02:08 pm
Based on players unavailable, the team looks okay on paper. Not sure what Williamson's VFL form has been like but probably not too many other options with both Williams and Docherty going out. Any idea on what the weather forecast is like for Saturday evening over there? A wet one might suit us a bit better.
Williamson has been poor, its last man standing stuff that sees him picked this week, maybe he might rise to the occasion this game and help save his career...
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle at MCG?
Post by: laj on July 01, 2021, 07:12:47 pm
Williamson has been poor, its last man standing stuff that sees him picked this week, maybe he might rise to the occasion this game and help save his career...
At least there's no reason to play him in the backline.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle at MCG?
Post by: kruddler on July 01, 2021, 07:18:19 pm
Williamson has been poor, its last man standing stuff that sees him picked this week, maybe he might rise to the occasion this game and help save his career...
As poor as he has been, and i've been one to write him off for a while now, i am happy that he was picked this week. Why? Because he is going to be played in his preferred position....which means someone else will not be played out of position to cover.
No more SPS back to cover for injuries. Play him mid/forward. Play williamson back. If he is good enough, he stays.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle at MCG?
Post by: LoveNavy on July 01, 2021, 10:08:05 pm
At the MCG now Saturday night! Hopefully it's Foxtel.
Yes, that would certainly make us favorites 😏 Other than the Foxtel effect, I don't see us winning this one. Hope I'm wrong 🤞
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle at MCG?
Post by: Professer E on July 01, 2021, 10:37:16 pm
I suspect Honey will get a game as well, looks the most "ready to go" of the kids etc left standing.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle at MCG?
Post by: DJC on July 01, 2021, 10:43:48 pm
O'Keefe's assessment of Williamson's last VFL game:
Quote
When the ball came in high, which it did a lot from the opposition, his thought process to be able to put seals on and help his mates out in the air was really good. Unfortunately, it probably wasn’t his day, in that he gave away quite a number of free kicks which really hurt us going the other way, while his ball use wasn’t up to AFL standard. I’m sure he’ll bounce back and have a good one this weekend.
Hopefully, O'Keefe is prescient.
Willo in form is worthy of a spot in the 22 and he's another bloke who doesn't take a backward step. Provided he doesn't overdo the aggression and takes care with his ball use, he could be a positive inclusion.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle at MCG?
Post by: Thryleon on July 02, 2021, 08:10:21 am
I think us fans are a bit quick to judge blokes.
Theyve shown promise, they have been unsettled by shifting coaches, game plans, and covid, and I've seen fully fledged adults that have coped poorly in those circumstances.
Don't be too quick to write off a bloke who showed a bit. Form slumps are temporary ability is permanent.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle at MCG?
Post by: laj on July 02, 2021, 12:36:08 pm
This game is suddenly really important after Richmond's loss in last night's game. Win and we are just a game out of the 8.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle at MCG?
Post by: crashlander on July 02, 2021, 12:40:10 pm
This game is suddenly really important after Richmond's loss in last night's game. Win and we are just a game out of the 8.
We don't deserve to be in the 8. If we get there, we won't last long. Too many injuries.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle at MCG?
Post by: pew2 on July 02, 2021, 01:02:36 pm
when are we going to play some kids ,this year we have a chance to find out wat we have in preparation for 2022 season,our year is over.collingwood played 7 debutantes this season.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle at MCG?
Post by: blueboys_1 on July 02, 2021, 01:13:51 pm
We don't deserve to be in the 8. If we get there, we won't last long. Too many injuries.
On present form we don' deserve to be there. But if we do happen to make it and get knocked out first round so be it. However the belief that it could give the team for next year would be invaluable.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle at MCG?
Post by: laj on July 02, 2021, 01:32:50 pm
We don't deserve to be in the 8. If we get there, we won't last long. Too many injuries.
If we got in means we will have won a number of games, then we will have deserved it. Not sure we have the drive and hunger to consistently win enough to get there though. I'm happy right now to take getting in and lasting only a week.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle at MCG?
Post by: LP on July 02, 2021, 01:37:54 pm
If we got in means we will have won a number of games, then we will have deserved it. Not sure we have the drive and hunger to consistently win enough to get there though. I'm happy right now to take getting in and lasting only a week.
Even just missing out is a significant sign of progress, especially given our injury list.
The resulting forward momentum can be non-linear, fans must realise this, they just have to look at recent seasons for Nthmond, Lions and Dogs. Get on a roll, get the confidence, get the run of injury luck, and it's amazing what can happen.
I think in recent times too many fans are too quick to dismiss Teague based on win / loss, what Teague has done in changing our game plan, finding a way to score, is significant change in a very very short period of time. It's not about BigH.
Some of the other stuff, the stuff that turns a 2 goal loss into the 2 goal win, the team building and foundational consistency, can only come with long term stability. You don't get doing the right thing from a skills session, you get it from playing besides a team-mate long term.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle at MCG?
Post by: PaulP on July 02, 2021, 02:23:00 pm
I think in recent times too many fans are too quick to dismiss Teague based on win / loss, what Teague has done in changing our game plan, finding a way to score, is significant change in a very very short period of time. It's not about BigH.
.......................................
I'd have to disagree. We are too Harry-centric in my opinion. The table below doesn't, to my eyes, make for good reading :
Its very easy to make this assertion, but two things.
1. He is leading the coleman indicating he is in good form.
2. How does this stack up against the rest of the AFL?
Using the bulldogs as a comparison (A benchmark team for multiple reasons):
They have scored 1361 points for the season whilst conceding 916 and sit second having only lost 3 games.
Their top 3 goal kickers are:
Western Bulldogs*
Josh Bruce (37) - 14 games
Aaron Naughton (33) - 14 Games
Marcus Bontempelli (21) - 14 games
We by contrast have scored 1165 points (a difference of 196 points which is the equivalent of 32 goals and some behinds)
Our top 3 goal kickers are:
Harry McKay (43)
Eddie Betts (20)
Matt Owies (13)
Here is the caveat: Owies has only played 8 games and Eddie has only played 12 including multiple matches where he hasnt scored a goal (0.4 against Brisbane off the top of my head).
How he stacks up: Harry Mckay - 43 goals 27 behinds Josh Bruce - 37 goals 13 behinds Aaron Naughton - 33 goals 29 behinds.
After this lengthy study, I think I still cannot draw any firm conclusions about the way we use Harry because this is an outcome focussed assessment to determine our reliance on Harry. In a season where we have reverted to a make shift forwardline and Harry as one of few players to be there each and every time we enter forward 50, it would make sense that the stats show a reliance on him, but an over reliance is hard to really draw the comparison. i.e. scoring shots wise, on outcomes, Harry has had a whopping 8 more scoring shots than Naughton.... Thats not an enormous difference really particularly when you look at Bruce with another 50 scoring shots. More options would mean less reliance, and we havent been scared to use other avenues to goal they just either kick poorly or havent been in scoring form (thinking of De Koning, Pittonet, Casboult, Cripps resting forward, Jack with 4.10 for the season and not playing every week).
A much more illuminating comparison would be centred on number of forward entries, vs number of entries where Harry was kicked to.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle at MCG?
Post by: PaulP on July 02, 2021, 03:14:05 pm
Thry, I'd also be keen to see how often Harry is targeted. I'd hazard a guess and say that he is the most targeted player in the AFL.
When your leading goal kicker has kicked more than double the next guy (McKay has played only 2 more games than Eddie), your team is sitting 13th overall and 10th in points for, your leading goal kicker is first in the Coleman, you've seen how much the team relies on Weitering and Jones at the other end, it leaves me feeling ill at ease tbh. IMO, all this points to a "too much left to too few" approach, one of my biggest knocks on Teague. I would definitely like to see a greater spread of goal kickers, like most of the top teams.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle at MCG?
Post by: PaulP on July 02, 2021, 03:19:36 pm
Further to my previous post, I'd be keen to see if anyone believes we could kick a winning score without Harry. I reckon the Doggies could without Naughton or Bruce.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle at MCG?
Post by: DJC on July 02, 2021, 03:26:01 pm
Its very easy to make this assertion, but two things.
1. He is leading the coleman indicating he is in good form.
2. How does this stack up against the rest of the AFL?
Using the bulldogs as a comparison (A benchmark team for multiple reasons):
They have scored 1361 points for the season whilst conceding 916 and sit second having only lost 3 games.
Their top 3 goal kickers are:
Western Bulldogs*
Josh Bruce (37) - 14 games
Aaron Naughton (33) - 14 Games
Marcus Bontempelli (21) - 14 games
We by contrast have scored 1165 points (a difference of 196 points which is the equivalent of 32 goals and some behinds)
Our top 3 goal kickers are:
Harry McKay (43)
Eddie Betts (20)
Matt Owies (13)
Here is the caveat: Owies has only played 8 games and Eddie has only played 12 including multiple matches where he hasnt scored a goal (0.4 against Brisbane off the top of my head).
How he stacks up: Harry Mckay - 43 goals 27 behinds Josh Bruce - 37 goals 13 behinds Aaron Naughton - 33 goals 29 behinds.
After this lengthy study, I think I still cannot draw any firm conclusions about the way we use Harry because this is an outcome focussed assessment to determine our reliance on Harry. In a season where we have reverted to a make shift forwardline and Harry as one of few players to be there each and every time we enter forward 50, it would make sense that the stats show a reliance on him, but an over reliance is hard to really draw the comparison. i.e. scoring shots wise, on outcomes, Harry has had a whopping 8 more scoring shots than Naughton.... Thats not an enormous difference really particularly when you look at Bruce with another 50 scoring shots. More options would mean less reliance, and we havent been scared to use other avenues to goal they just either kick poorly or havent been in scoring form (thinking of De Koning, Pittonet, Casboult, Cripps resting forward, Jack with 4.10 for the season and not playing every week).
A much more illuminating comparison would be centred on number of forward entries, vs number of entries where Harry was kicked to.
The big difference is that the Bulldogs have two key forwards who have kicked 70 goals between them, not to mention their top midfielder with 20 odd. Our key forwards have kicked around 50 goals and our top midfielder has kicked 5 goals.
It's great that Harry is heading towards 50 goals, but I'd prefer to see two key forwards sharing the load and a better contribution from the midfield. Our small forwards are contributing but, again, it would be great if more of them were regularly troubling the scorers.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle at MCG?
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 02, 2021, 03:35:44 pm
Further to my previous post, I'd be keen to see if anyone believes we could kick a winning score without Harry. I reckon the Doggies could without Naughton or Bruce.
If we didnt have Harry we would be struggling to beat anyone.........need Charlie back to compete with the top 8 teams though.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle at MCG?
Post by: PaulP on July 02, 2021, 04:11:32 pm
If we didnt have Harry we would be struggling to beat anyone.........need Charlie back to compete with the top 8 teams though.
Yes, Teague's hands may well be tied because of injuries, but that table is still a disturbing read IMO.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle at MCG?
Post by: Thryleon on July 02, 2021, 05:02:42 pm
With all due respect is it possible for us to have relied on Harry less given the make up of our team? We fared ok with Harry off after quarter time vs Sydney and he tends to score in clumps.
I think the over reliance on individuals is being over stated somewhat.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle at MCG?
Post by: kruddler on July 02, 2021, 06:06:47 pm
Is Fyfe fit? You don't normally recover from a shoulder in a week? Are they rolling the dice ala Cameron last night?
I'd be asking Levi or even Crippa/Kennedy to give Fyfe's shoulder a few tests!
Blues by 34.
If it was in Freo they would be favorites, they play a scrappy style and don't have much class IMHO and rely heavily on a few to win games. We should start favorites over here and I think we can win by a couple of goals. They have a good midfield and handy rucks but not much else imo.. Would prefer the weather to be finer for Harry and I think it will suit Freo if the ball is on the ground more... Danger man is Walters.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle at MCG?
Post by: Mav on July 03, 2021, 11:42:12 am
Doubt if the weather will have much of an effect. The MCG is so well drained that it would still be firm and not much rain is forecast. And as Freo is staying over here, they’ll be acclimatised to the frigid conditions.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle at MCG?
Post by: LoveNavy on July 03, 2021, 12:40:21 pm
Walters the worry up forward, Mundy in the midfield, and Ryan down back. The latter has dominated in the air previously.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle at MCG?
Post by: northernblue on July 03, 2021, 02:47:04 pm
Thry, I'd also be keen to see how often Harry is targeted. I'd hazard a guess and say that he is the most targeted player in the AFL.
When your leading goal kicker has kicked more than double the next guy (McKay has played only 2 more games than Eddie), your team is sitting 13th overall and 10th in points for, your leading goal kicker is first in the Coleman, you've seen how much the team relies on Weitering and Jones at the other end, it leaves me feeling ill at ease tbh. IMO, all this points to a "too much left to too few" approach, one of my biggest knocks on Teague. I would definitely like to see a greater spread of goal kickers, like most of the top teams.
I get it, you think we target H too much at the expense of McGovern, Charlie, Jack, Levi, Cuningham, MacDonald and Fisher… 😄 Whatever amount of forward entries H has sent his way is because he’s the best qualified recipient, either because he’s actually playing or actually in form (Levi) He’s the only big bloke we have forward, if you want a game plan that targets smalls that’s ok
The big difference is that the Bulldogs have two key forwards who have kicked 70 goals between them, not to mention their top midfielder with 20 odd. Our key forwards have kicked around 50 goals and our top midfielder has kicked 5 goals.
Who is our other key forward ?
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle at MCG?
Post by: PaulP on July 03, 2021, 02:51:54 pm
What I want is a diverse spread of goal kickers, like the better teams have. I understand our injury situation, and Teague deserves the benefit of the doubt for now, but I'd be concerned if this reliance on Harry continues once we get Charlie, McGovern etc back.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle at MCG?
Post by: northernblue on July 03, 2021, 02:53:51 pm
What I want is a diverse spread of goal kickers, like the better teams have. I understand our injury situation, and Teague deserves the benefit of the doubt for now, but I'd be concerned if this reliance on Harry continues once we get Charlie, McGovern etc back.
If it exists now, it would be surely impossible to continue if those two were in the team, fit and playing forward…?
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle at MCG?
Post by: PaulP on July 03, 2021, 03:32:27 pm
If it exists now, it would be surely impossible to continue if those two were in the team, fit and playing forward…?
If we had not just two, but all three of Gov, Harry and Charlie getting decent chunks of games together, that forward line on paper is nearly as good as Darling, Kennedy and Allen at WC. Based on our recent history, the chances of those 3 enjoying extended time together appears slim IMO.
If we take any combination of two of those blokes, that's already a step up. But once again, i can't see Charlie or Gov playing most games season to season.
Richmond won a couple of flags with Riewoldt and a bunch of midgets, and given that Charlie has been out for 2 years, I was hoping that by now the MC could have cobbled together something more than a Coleman leader and a couple of very minor cameos. Maybe I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle at MCG?
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 03, 2021, 03:56:22 pm
If we had not just two, but all three of Gov, Harry and Charlie getting decent chunks of games together, that forward line on paper is nearly as good as Darling, Kennedy and Allen at WC. Based on our recent history, the chances of those 3 enjoying extended time together appears slim IMO.
If we take any combination of two of those blokes, that's already a step up. But once again, i can't see Charlie or Gov playing most games season to season.
Richmond won a couple of flags with Riewoldt and a bunch of midgets, and given that Charlie has been out for 2 years, I was hoping that by now the MC could have cobbled together something more than a Coleman leader and a couple of very minor cameos. Maybe I'm wrong.
I think having high expectations of McGovern are going to have to be tempered, he played his best footy with a red hot Crows team that had the best forward line in the comp as the 4th or 5th forward. Its a lot harder with us in a developing team to get that same service he did with Crows and being injury prone like he is and only averaging 13-14 games a season I think puts him in the category of anything he contributes is a bonus but we need to have a game plan that is built around other players who come with more of a guarantee of being on the park, same applies with Charlie Curnow. IMO we need to invest in some more forward options who we can develop with our other kids.I think as a backman we might get more value and games out of McGovern and we do lack that 3rd tall defender so there is a spot for him if he can stay injury free.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle at MCG?
Post by: LP on July 03, 2021, 04:05:09 pm
I think having high expectations of McGovern are going to have to be tempered, he played his best footy with a red hot Crows team that had the best forward line in the comp as the 4th or 5th forward.
Given Casboult is 30+, and Charlie should return, why is it you think a similar setup cannot work between Harry, Charlie, Gov and SoJ or even De Koning?
I'd have thought it's just about a perfect mix if our club can get them on the park, to me the negativity seems unjustified.
Title: Re: Pre game Promise AFL Rd 16 Carlton vs Fremantle at MCG?
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 03, 2021, 04:26:55 pm
Given Casboult is 30+, and Charlie should return, why is it you think a similar setup cannot work between Harry, Charlie, Gov and SoJ or even De Koning?
I'd have thought it's just about a perfect mix if our club can get them on the park, to me the negativity seems unjustified.
Midfield supply isnt as good IMHO, TDK will be rucking the majority of the game, Betts was in his prime and I think both Charlie and McGovern need to prove they can stay on the park. I would prefer a couple of fitter options to work with Harry, examples of the type needed are a pair like Jones from Essendon, Georgiades from Port....both can take a mark, both kick well for goal and are a bit different to Harry. Both players not there yet as fully developed but are on their way and more reliable options to stay on the park....if Charlie has a miracle and can stay on the park then he is the man to help Harry take us forward but I think we need other options. The VFL teams best KP Forward is a journeyman midfielder....McGovern IMO is better suited down back and it might help his injury issues. JSOS is a hard working utility but is still a Jack of all trades but master of none and while I still want him in my 22 as that utility to plug holes I would prefer a classier option down forward who is a better converter.