Squad named for this one.
https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/1065480?
Jordan Boyd, Adam Cerra, Patrick Cripps, Charlie Curnow, Paddy Dow, Corey Durdin, Zac Fisher, Lachlan Fogarty, George Hewett, Brodie Kemp, Matthew Kennedy, Oscar McDonald, Mitch McGovern, Alex Mirkov, Nic Newman, Jack Newnes, Lochie O’Brien, Matthew Owies, Sam Philp, Marc Pittonet, Adam Saad, Will Setterfield, Jack Silvagni, Jacob Weitering, Zac Williams, Tom Williamson
Going to be morning thunderstorms!! Have fun boys!!
Ed’s in the VFL side :o
Probably captain.
Teach the young whippersnappers a thing or two. ;D
It will be interesting to see if we have a run with player and, if so, who gets the job 🤔
I've pegged Plowman to replace Ed at that role for sometime, and he is big enough to go with modern sized mids.
Otherwise, it may be the ideal role for Doc.
I'd guess Hewett. Requires a fair engine and not sure if Doc or Plowman have got that... but, isn't it great to be talking game day stuff, eh! Gave myself the morning off to watch the game, but only if I work the lost hours tonight and tomorrow ;D
Any attendees?
Plenty to like in that opening term. Hewett's understated contribution important. Zachery looking good. Pitto good.
Most likeable was how we moved the aggott and our pressure. Too many (hangover from last season?) kick and hopes into the forward line, but not as bad as previous years - Crippa offended here with one kick and hope when he had shorter options... which gave Membray an easy intercept.
BUT, it's the first qtr of a practice match and the Aints were all over the shop... hopefully due to our pressure!
There are twitter updates of the 1st quarter if anybody is looking for updates on what is going on.
Sounds good so far.
Vossy is getting to see first hand some of our issues, primarily... play well, get a lead then when the opposition responds, we are found wanting.
After a promising start, LOB has made some costly errors along with Boyd. I hope the Aints keep this pressure up so our coaches can see our ingrained -- hopefully not for much longer -- failure under intensity. Yes, only a practice match... but that can still be revealing.
The game is live on Kayo
A couple of poor turnovers/mistakes-Boyd, O'Brien x 2
A couple of times we've over-commited to marking contests and as a result two of our guys are flying against a single Saints player leaving another of theirs free at the back.
5.6 to 4.5, our way, at present. All Aints in the 2nd. Goalless in this qtr. Our run has gone, back to individual efforts.
Saad good.
Williams' kicking is excellent and can be damaging...hopefully he can stay fit
We're pretty unimpressive this quarter.
They turned it up a notch and we've gone missing.
Aints 3 goals to nil this qtr. We lead by 2pts after leading by 4gls at qtr time.
6.7, 5.8 in favour of the Aints. All Aints in the 2nd. Same old, same old from us in this 2nd qtr.
5 in a row to the Saints. Old habits die hard....lol.
New year, same crap.
Half time. Aints 6.8 to us 5.8. Goalless 2nd qtr tells the story.
For mine, the 2nd story told the story of our club... as soon as the opposition applied pressure we couldn't respond and wilted.
Poor quarter...
"Didn't want to get dirty."
Care factor and intensity seemed to be right down.
O'Brien's an enigma...has some skills but makes a few costly mistakes.
Yep.
Twitter feed has also gone missing when the heat is on just like the seniors ::)
I think that's the disappointing aspect.
We're looking for a point of difference under Voss but that was very much Carlton 2021.
Now the thing to probably keep in mind is that it is half time in a practice match, against a team that finished above us last year and we're missing arguably our two most influential players in Walsh and McKay...but we'd want to see a better effort in the second half.
Luck played a big part, but that’s footy.
St Kilda adjusted to our game style in the second and we don’t yet have the tool kit to respond. Hopefully, we’ll have a stronger 22 in the second half.
O’Brien’s two clangers were terrible but, to give him his due, he knuckled down and played some good footy after that.
Any comments on Cerra so far? Don't have Kayo so relying on this.
Now, how do we respond in the 3rd? An end to end goal was a good start. Point down.
Plenty to like. Has been important. And has kicked the opening goal of the 3rd.
Scores level. SOJ kicks a behind.
Looking better. Slower, more purposeful.
Couple of other quick ones:
1. Is McGovern playing back....and how's he look.
2. Oscar McDonald?
LOB heard footsteps, dropped a sitter. Not optimistic. Durdin way off.
Charlie point after classy grab. Blues by 1pt.
Charlie getting more influential. Kicked 3 points though but very promising.
Blues by 2pts. Charlie 60 metre just misses.
Blues by 8pts, Cerra good goal.
Playing as a team this qtr, not that soulless individual cr@p we dished up in the 2nd.
Cerra 2 goals, both from Charlie assists.
Not much happening to the Heatley Stand (or non-stand these days) end this game.
Blues 7.11
Aints 6.9
Much better effort this quarter.
Cerra will be an asset.
(Hangover from the Superbowl....If Cripps could throw he'd be a great quarterback.)
Durdin and Boyd better this qtr. (spoke too soon re Durdin before :-[ )
Liking Kemp.
Kemp goal.
Blues 8.11
Aints 6.9
Yep
He's presenting well.
More disciplined this qtr.
Aints goalless.
SOJ very good.
Kemp playing as a tall forward?
3/4 time.
Blues 8.12
Aints 6.9
Yep. Leading and contesting really well. Charlie rusty, only glimpses.
Is Mirkov rucking much?
Gov and Kemp seemed to have swapped ends from last year.
Charlie has been getting more influential as the game has gone.
Rucked for most of the quarter. Got out-muscled but still did some nice work.
Small forwards more influential that qtr... Durdin and Owies.
Weiters as a general down back.
Williams improving as the game continued... some very good plays and disposal. Saad great.
Let's see if we can reverse the trend of most goals to the northern end (left of screen ;D )
Membray really does find another gear when playing against us... dangerous up forward, and effective when sent down back when we have the play.
Cripps and Kennedy were good that quarter.
Sounds as though O'Brien is playing to his usual standards.
Arm wrestle. 6 gone in the final. 8.12, 6.10 our way.
Capcom....thought exactly the same thing. I'm not even watching it and I'm frustrated already. It's only the very first scratch match but he won't get too many more opportunities given the bit more depth options now. Hard to see him fitting into a small defender role with the numerous options down back and wing/midfield he'll get squeezed out pretty quick too.
Setterfield and Newman are just so pedestrian in everything they do. Can't imagine they last under Voss.
Poor Newman, Saad set up up "beautifully"....ouch!
11 minutes gone final qtr.
Blues 8.13
Aints 6.11
My knock on LOB is that he just cannot be relied on... missed an easy mark in the goal sqr. Too timid. Does nice things when not under pressure, but that's it.
15 gone, final qtr.
Blues 8.12
Aints 7.11
Both sides looking, understandably, tired.
LIke the little girl with the curl...when he's good he's quite good. When he's bad, it's horrid and often costly.
Scores level. 17 gone.
Should we be a point in front? Not sure they added that last point of Silvagni's on.
20 mins, final qtr.
Blues 9.12
Aints 8.12
Owies goal - like his game.
Williamson solid.
We're actually 9.13.
Twitter has us 67, a 7pt lead.
25mins final qtr.
Blues 9.13
Aints 8.12
Liking our pressure in the final qtr.
28 mins final qtr.
Blues 9.13
Aints 8.12
Like Mircov's tap work.
Final margin, 7pts to the Blues.
Liked our discipline in the heat in the final qtr.
Kennedy, good.
Thank you Baggers. Your work much appreciated, particularly by those of us afar.
cheers Ab
He usually is. For some reason whenever he has a quiet one he's on everyone's hit list.
Better defensively... thank fck.
Sounds pretty low scoring for a pre-season game, it's a worry for the coming season as I usually associate pre-season stuff as a non-contact shootout.
If the coaches are already focussed on lockdowns, 2022 might be very low scoring!
Bit more contact than the usual Practice game. All the scoring was at one end.
Watched Second Half at Ikon
Liked Kemp
Durdin is going to be an asset runs and chases hard..
Markov has promise but a few years away
Charlie was a bit outnumbered but made some nice leads and was honoured a few times
I hope someone gets hold of him and stops that Buddy run around hook foot shot at goal...one shank and two sliced misses.... that I saw
Zav Rocca gone but goalkicking is so crucial...do we have a new goalkicking coach?
I think that the Princes Park curator will have a job on his hands collecting the piles of rust that were deposited all over the hallowed turf. Kicking for goal was average and both defences had the better of their opponents. Defensive pressure was a key objective but we still played an attacking style, and looked very good when got the overlap going. Best of all, we played the entire game without an extra man behind the ball.
Our forward line was cobbled together and, while Kemp did OK as a key forward, he’s got a lot to learn in that role. Silvagni was very good as forward/ruck/swingman and Charlie did some nice things. Owies and Durdin didn’t have much impact and Fogarty played mainly in the midfield when he came on in the last quarter. Fisher spent a lot of time up the ground and in the midfield.
According to the commentators, Harry and Jack Martin played in a match simulation before the practice match so both look like being available for our next hitout. That should make for a much more potent forward line.
The defence was solid with Boyd being the only one who lowered his colours. McGovern did some nice things but he’s not Jeremy. Playing in defence might save his career but he’s on a steep learning curve. Willo was good and I think that he’s one player who could thrive under Vossy.
All in all, it was a promising start by Vossy’s boys but it’s very much a work in progress.
Ash Hansen can cover this. Worked with Bruce/Naughton at Dogs.....
Interesting to see how these things creep in, usually a confidence thing, but then like BigH they can take years to get out of the bad habits of one pre-season. All the various twitches, twists, pirouettes, skips and turns add complexity, KISS is always best! Walk straight, jog straight, kick straight, practise, practise, practise.
Most of what goes wrong in goal kicking is more about weight being too far forward or back than anything related to the drop of the ball or running a curve.
Nice summary, David.
We can't expect McGov to slot in seamlessly... a work in progress. Took Jones a season to get the hang of it. I think, eventually and hopefully, the comparisons between Jones and McGov will fade. If McGov does make it in defense the bottom line is that he'll do some things better than Jones and some things not as good.
I thought our best qtr was actually our final qtr. They had the scoring end and we were defending a scrawny lead. We toughed it out and that is a good sign. But still plenty of work to be done on the 4-7 goal run-ons we give opponents/wilt under opposition pressure when they challenge us/our GP. Glad the new coaches got to see first hand our 2nd qtr fade... a discipline/mental thing that has cost us dearly for yonks and still exists.
Thanks guys for the coverage. I was intending to go, but I was called up for work (I'm working as an Emergency teacher these days, and will until I start selling books).
The media was very much over Cerra, although they did mention Hewett. Nice to hear about some of the others.
I hope to get to the practice match against Melbourne next Thursday evening.
I don’t think we faded in the 2nd quarter Shane. Ratts made some adjustments that worked and our blokes haven’t yet learned to tweak Vossy’s game style on the run.
You’re right about the last quarter. The Carlton of the last few seasons would have fought gallantly but would have been over run.
Ash Hanson’s presser is interesting; the coaches seem pretty pleased with our progress while looking forward to the return of a couple of key players.
I wasn't a happy-chappy at half-time
But I've been having a bit of a think about it.
I'm normally a bit dismissive of these pre-season games.
Pressure and intensity is usually miles below an in-season game and results are pretty meaningless.
Coaches use them for experimentation.
A few have alluded to the fact that there was a bit more pressure out there today than you would normally see in a pre-season game.
I think that was the case.
It was pretty bruise free that first quarter, but when the Saints came out for the second their intensity went up.
On the other hand ours dropped off.
From half-time on it was a bit of an arm wrestle.
While you would normally see a lot of unforced errors at this stage due to players being a bit rusty I get the feeling that many of the mistakes may have been due to the greater pressure than a normal pre-season.
Whatever the case, I reckon that was a pretty worthwhile hit-out.
Anyone with news about the VFL game?
The media wanted to pump up Cerra, but the big deal was Cripps back in full flight, Cerra fed off him like a limpet but make no mistake it was Cripps winning the footy like the old days!
Ruck might still be an issue for us, Mirkov is 2 or 3 years off, and Pitto tries hard but he is Pitto.
Next week will be a big tell, but after today the Dees might rest half the team!
They made an utter mess of North, we cannot have that happen to us.
Pre-season stuff is a coin toss, you may have one coach who wants to test the limits of the metal, while another is looking to fashion and a new form of decorative origami!
I think you can only take certain little moments as a tell.
For example when Cripps disposed of Steele, that probably means something because there is no way Steele would allow himself to be bullied and he was frustrated after it happened. Another was the intermittent battle between King and Weitering, you could see various challenges and responses, but not 100% of the time, they'll have a ripper battle in the real season provided the umpires do their job and keep the fight fair.
Would we rest Williams, Cerra, Cripps, it is quite possible they won't play the next match they look cherry ripe already? But some will argue they have to play, to measure themselves against the current benchmarks!
I'd like to see O'Brien get another run, some might be focussed on the negatives, sloppy ball handling, but he got to where the footy was a lot and in AFL that is 90% of the work done! I was more worried about McGovern finding himself out of position and out of the contest in D50, he did a couple of nice things but wasn't involved anywhere near enough!
Kemp looked more impressive than Charlie, but Kemp despite beating his opponents to the footy did like O'Brien and failed to hang onto the pill. By the end of the game Charlie's 1-on-1 work was pretty impressive.
Kennedy is a gun kick for goal, why is he snapping set shots from 35m out around the body, is this contagious? Hopefully it is just a practise match experiment, because you need guys like Kennedy kicking straight and hitting targets on the run, and you don't get better at that by kicking around your body! If he or other mids want to experiment I'd much rather they went back 20m or 30m and then sprint towards the mark for a running shot on goal!
Anybody know why Dow played 2s after being pumped up by Diesel?
Doesn't explain why...but maybe setting Dow a bit of a challenge.
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/curnow-in-the-clear-as-voss-praises-new-defender-20220225-p59zq2.html?fbclid=IwAR2vBBQ-zNiN4cY9zruTAq0WXJHhYjVVCrlRUQosAv06M_y2yzn36IBM6bg
OK, so a bit late to the party, but i'll add my 2 cents.
Firstly, Boyd....can't remember who pumped him up from an intraclub, but he was terrible. Turned it over, slow to react i'd have him ranked dead last from all the players who played, and plenty who didn't. Has a lot of work to do.
Secondly, OBrien....despite a couple of early turnovers, i thought he worked his well into the game OK. was one of the few who kept running past for the handball and kept running. Pre-game would've been fighting for Boyds spot as last, but was pleasantly surprised. Not sure he is best 22, but as a fill in, he won't look out of place.
Forwardline...
Charlie had 2 beat multiple opponents because Harry wasn't there. He had a tough day, but wasn't terrible.
Kemp was a poor mans harry, but again, was not terrible. Might make it as a swingman.
SOJ....only knows one way....100%. Give him an inch and he'll take a mile. Kicked at least 2, possibly 3 goals and missed 1 or 2 as well. He's always been up against it, but constantly performs.
Small forwards....owies, durdin....serviceable, but no Eddie.
Backline...
Weitering.....AA this year...even commentators are starting to notice.
McDonald....not as good as i'd hoped, made some errors that you cannot make at AFL level, but worth a shot
McGovern....was good, still have some work to do, but looks like he has found a spot. More games with the 2 above and the defence might start to click.
small(er) backs....Saad and Williams are locks, Saad probably BOG. Newman....bit of a forgotten man, but worthy of a starting spot. Williamson.....still not a fan...too unpredictable, too up and down, too many in front of him.
Midfield/the rest...
Pittonet...gets a bad wrap, still, but probably our best, most consistent ruck since Matty Allen. Kreuzer was clearly better, but injured half the time which hurts his consistency. Pitto will never win any awards, but for a big bloke to hold up his end, lock it in.
Mirkov.....raw, but we know that. Will be better for the run, something to work with.
Cripps.....still tries to do too much, but with the reduced intensity, was more likely to get away with it today. Dominant in the middle.
Cerra....a lot to like about his game today. Nothing overly flashy about it, but did what he needed to do.
Hewitt...less impressive than Cerra, but didn't look out of place. Should still find a spot, but i'd like to see more from him.
Kennedy...like SOJ, always underrated, always gives his all, always performs at a consistent level. Good when moved forward too.
Fisher....looked good, still searching for the absolutely break out game to take him to the next level, but he's close
Newnes+Setterfield. Bodies that don't look out of place, but are not long term options.
Philp....a body that did look out of place. Put him just in front of Boyd IMO. Not hopeful.
One thing i seemed to notice is instead of the bomb long to the hot spot, a more considered, bomb long to the pocket and take the throw in seemed to work. Similar to the Mick Malthouse gameplan when going forward. No point getting the ball inside 50 if you get hurt on the rebound. Get the ball inside 50 and put it in the umpires hand and back yourself in.
Pretty much texted the same thing to my mate regarding the gameplan.
I think in several of those instances the footage shows we had an open F50 target that was missed, so the perspective that it was some how to plan might be a bit of gilding.
In one case I saw, we had three or four players setup coming in from the right forward pocket and we kicked it straight over their heads to the left of the goal square to the advantage of three defenders, but luckily for us they spilt the mark and we forced a stoppage!
The odd occasion we went to the 'open F50 target' it got picked off.
Defenders plug a hole in space with the intention of going back to the hot spot as soon as the ball is kicked. Its a cat and mouse game.
I used to use this tactic as a HF lining up in a zone after a behind. Everytime the FB was looking for a spot to kick to, i'd sag back created space in front of me to encourage him to kick it there. I'd watch his eyes and the moment he'd lock on to his target and shape up to kick it there i'd already be running to that spot ready for a nice intercept and shot on goal.
We don't give the 'loose' defenders enough credit these days. They force players to kick it to the exact spot they want them too and know its going there ahead of time, even before we do. Thats why we used to concede so many goals under teague, we were predictable and got hurt on the rebound. Our kicking skills and/or marking options, were simply not good enough to do that under Teague and Bolton.
Go back to the Ratten days and we had Fevola as the target and the likes of Murphy, Houlihan, Gibbs etc delivering it forward. It could work then as the talent was there.
Going back to the Vossy/Malthouse way, it basically takes the opposition out of it. It doesn't matter if you are playing St. Kilda, North Melbourne, or Richmond or Melbourne. Getting a 50-50 ball from a stoppage in the pocket is basically a given. From there you back Cripps and co to win it and get you a shot.
However, going to the hotspot will yield different results depending on the opposition you are playing. You can win a game by going to the hotspot often, but you can always lose a game by going there often.
You can never lose a game by going to a 50-50 contest in the pocket. You always gain some territory.
There was method to the madness of Mick Malthouse. Hopefully our players, supporters and head honchos at the club can respect Vossy enough to let him do it.
Having Harry on the field would mean that balls directed to the right pocket would be marked and he’d be on his preferred side.
Comparisons with Malthouse’s method are a stretch; we avoided going down the line unless it was the only option.
Its far from identical to Malthouse, but the overall philosophy is coming from the same place. That is, attack to your advantage, defend and play the percentages and gain ground as a priority, rather than turn it over.
Ratten and Teague were high risk, high reward.
Bolton was no risk, no reward. lol
Malthouse and Voss seem to be low risk.
Fans have a tendency to get cause and effect ar5e about, using the corridor or boundary line is sometimes more about opposition's defensive setup than a deliberate tactic.
Forwards head where they are offered space, the skill is to make use of it wherever it becomes available.
When we got run off the D50 we went straight up the guts multiple times, especially highlighted by a few of Williams line breaking disposals. When the Aints managed to slow us up we went around the boundary line but not always.
Labelling that as a deliberate change of tactics at best seems somewhat arbitrary.
We had forward dominance nearly all game, despite Kemp and SoJ not clunking marks they were nearly always first hands on the pill when appropriately targeted, deliberately slowing up our transition would be a coaching death knell. If Kemp and SoJ had clunked 50% of their chances we'd have won by 6 goals. We were so dominant at times the Aints kept sending Membrey back to fill the gaps!
What I did see in the game which is attributable directly to Voss is far less panicked disposals.
That is more about the fact its a pre-season game under less pressure IMO.
We'll agree to disagree on the boundary tactics.
That's pretty much how I saw it LP; corridor unless there's no other option. When we did go down the wings (usually well inboard of the boundary), many of our forward 50 entries were 45 degree kicks to around true CHF or a bit closer to goal.
I'd categorise Vossy's game style as high risk, high reward but only when the risk isn't too high.
Yeah, that's how I see it, far less of the bomb it forward regardless type stuff, not that I'm against that when you have someone like BigH in F50. BigH may well have to work harder under Voss, on repeat efforts, but when he gets his chances it is likely they will be cleaner.
One thing with Nthmond's run and gun manic pressure type game is that they have to commit 100% to moving in one direction as a swarm. A patient team that is prepared to yoyo the ball around can probably run them into the ground with direction changes. It will be interesting to see how the rule changes affect Nthmond, because their tackling and dumping tactics could almost get interpreted as a type of delaying. Historically whenever they started to get panelised for it the umpires were been publicly bullied into letting them get away with it by Dimma's eternal media bleating to "Just let them play!"
Thanks - the coach and Greg Williams both saying he’s had a great pre-season and a number 3 pick and he’ll be fighting for a spot? A bit odd
Whenever a coach says a player has had a great pre-season, it is code for 'there are no excuses'.......