I hate being the last game of the weekend.
Kept them scoreless in the first.
Kept them scoreless in the last.
You do that, you're going to win 99 games out of 100.
Back the points.
Enjoy the % boost.
Move on.
Get your butts back on a plane ASAP because we've got a big game next Saturday.
When was the last time we:
(a) beat a team by ten goals?
(b) kept a team scoreless for 2 quarters?
Especially when it was an away game?
I'd think (a) might be 2013, as we had a few good games that year.
(b) might be back in 1995. Maybe.
One of our worst quarters of the year....sandwiched between two of our best. Hard to fathom the drop-off after we were so "on" in the first quarter. But smashed them in the end...take that every day of the week.
Nearly 140 possessions combined for Hewett, Walsh, Cerra, Kennedy and Cripps....reckon you'll win most games with that sort of domination.
It was a good win in the end however let's remember they are a depleted team still with nothing to play for.
We we are switched on we can match it with anyone.
Just need to be able to sustain it in game.
Charlie & Harry's individual brilliance is also masking a few cracks in the forward line IMO.
It was a good win in the end however let's remember they are a depleted team still with nothing to play for.
We we are switched on we can match it with anyone.
Just need to be able to sustain it in game.
Charlie & Harry's individual brilliance is also masking a few cracks in the forward line IMO.
That's how I saw it, West Coast are a very average team but we did what we had to do but it was our our weapons down forward vs a very no name WC defense that won us the game imho.
It's like so many things - Nail the start, nail the end and everyone goes away happy, forgetting what happens in the middle.
Thought we withstood their pressure in the third well.
Josh Honey will be going back to the 2's next week. he had 4 possessions for the day; 4 handballs and 1 tackle. He did a couple of other things that don't show in the stats, but he really didn't have a good day.
Will Hayes got 5 possessions in half of a quarter. he came on for Newnes.
Durdin only had 10 possessions, but kicked 2 goals and had 5 tackles. His pressure in the forward half is good.
We missed Owies. I hope his injury, whatever it is, comes good sooner rather than later.
Motlop was also much less impressive this week, but he is a work in progress.
To be honest, if we had a full list to choose from, both Honey and Motlop would go back to the VFL. But we haven't had a full list to choose from this century yet.
Weitering will be better for the run. Pity we get only a 6 day break.
Momentum changes are part of the game.
Over recent years we've become experts at identifying (and fearing) them.
The issue for us is the 'gap' between our best and worst, and a lot of that is down to attitude rather than skill.
The football we played in the first quarter would blitz most teams.
For a while we forgot to work as hard as the opposition.
The best part of the game for me was the last quarter which in many respects was built on recognising we would have to regain that work effort to win.
The test will be if we can do it against the best.
We get a chance to test that out next week
It's like so many things - Nail the start, nail the end and everyone goes away happy, forgetting what happens in the middle.
Thought we withstood their pressure in the third well.
My only teeny weeny concern was the switch from selfless to selfish football in the 1st and 2nd qtrs respectively. Selfish hasn't been us this year.
Josh Honey will be going back to the 2's next week. he had 4 possessions for the day; 4 handballs and 1 tackle. He did a couple of other things that don't show in the stats, but he really didn't have a good day.
Will Hayes got 5 possessions in half of a quarter. he came on for Newnes.
Durdin only had 10 possessions, but kicked 2 goals and had 5 tackles. His pressure in the forward half is good.
We missed Owies. I hope his injury, whatever it is, comes good sooner rather than later.
Motlop was also much less impressive this week, but he is a work in progress.
To be honest, if we had a full list to choose from, both Honey and Motlop would go back to the VFL. But we haven't had a full list to choose from this century yet.
Weitering will be better for the run. Pity we get only a 6 day break.
Agree re Honey, just a VFL player.
@ElwoodBlues1 Yes mate I have your cheque ready to mail, I was wrong. I assume you put a little wager on for H and Prince Charles to kick 5 each?
@ElwoodBlues1 Yes mate I have your cheque ready to mail, I was wrong. I assume you put a little wager on for H and Prince Charles to kick 5 each?
Some bloke said it would never happen so
I took his advice and kept my money in my pocket... ;)
And Honey hasn't kicked a goal in his 3 games since coming back in. If Owies doesn't get up, then maybe Martin comes back in for Honey.
There's not a lot left in the VFL so maybe Hayes comes in for Newnes.
Some bloke said it would never happen so
I took his advice and kept my money in my pocket... ;)
You should know not to listen to that idiot ;)
https://twitter.com/sirswampthing/status/1546064069916266498?s=21&t=HxA-QsY_r_fU3cvr4g2G6Q
WCE just put out the first scoreless Q1 + Q4 in a century :o
And Honey hasn't kicked a goal in his 3 games since coming back in. If Owies doesn't get up, then maybe Martin comes back in for Honey.
There's not a lot left in the VFL so maybe Hayes comes in for Newnes.
Honey will be good for us, just not this year. After his issues won't be fit enough.
Our cupboard was more empty than Wet Toasts - sure they didn't have have Yeo and Sheed but we are missing plenty too.
Our midfeld is dynamite and Kennedy is our most important player imo.
Our cupboard was more empty than Wet Toasts - sure they didn't have have Yeo and Sheed but we are missing plenty too.
Our midfeld is dynamite and Kennedy is our most important player imo.
MK and George were huge
After a rusty start last week it was nice to see Cerra back doing what he does best, distributing.
After a rusty start last week it was nice to see Cerra back doing what he does best, distributing.
Played well and we miss his link play and distribution ability when he is out, just gives us a bit of class delivery going forward that we didnt have on the list previously.
After a rusty start last week it was nice to see Cerra back doing what he does best, distributing.
All the strapping on his leg was gone this week.
Played well and we miss his link play and distribution ability when he is out, just gives us a bit of class delivery going forward that we didnt have on the list previously.
Our hard assed mids really went to work in the last. It was a powerful performance.
Josh Honey will be going back to the 2's next week. he had 4 possessions for the day; 4 handballs and 1 tackle. He did a couple of other things that don't show in the stats, but he really didn't have a good day.
Will Hayes got 5 possessions in half of a quarter. he came on for Newnes.
Durdin only had 10 possessions, but kicked 2 goals and had 5 tackles. His pressure in the forward half is good.
We missed Owies. I hope his injury, whatever it is, comes good sooner rather than later.
Motlop was also much less impressive this week, but he is a work in progress.
To be honest, if we had a full list to choose from, both Honey and Motlop would go back to the VFL. But we haven't had a full list to choose from this century yet.
Weitering will be better for the run. Pity we get only a 6 day break.
Agree with this a fit Cunningham, Martin and Owes makes things interesting!
Our hard assed mids really went to work in the last. It was a powerful performance.
Agree, we had a nice spread of the workload with our mids which overpowered the WC, led by the captain who really lifted his
game and was the catalyst imho that got us going in the last quarter.
Agree, we had a nice spread of the workload with our mids which overpowered the WC, led by the captain who really lifted his
game and was the catalyst imho that got us going in the last quarter.
Just as good leaders do.
It wasn't that long ago we were exasperated about what looked like a lack of leadership.
What a fast turnaround 👏
This was the first game of the season where I was genuinely concerned about our chances. West Coast have been steadily getting their better players back and their performances over the last month or so have been pretty good. In fact, their best footy is very good, as they showed in the second quarter.
Despite still missing many of our first choice players, our second quarter lapse, and playing on West Coast's own dungheap, we delivered a good old-fashioned flogging.
Our hard assed mids really went to work in the last. It was a powerful performance.
Kennedy I thought had a good 4-qtrs, Cripps was as good as I have seen in the last, really dominated using his size and strength.
It's amazing what the quartet of midfielders can do when they play together, Cripps, Kennedy, Cerra and Hewett are spectacular.
I said in one of the pre-game threads that we take what BigH and Charlie do for granted, but there are virtually no talls like them outside of Franklin that have the speed, recovery and agility, and I think our guys have Franklin covered at ground level. We saw two great examples today from BigH, the run down, then that crumbing goal that started with him out near the F50 arc.
I thought Cripps and Walsh were less imposing than usual until the final quarter and then they both turned it on.
TDK was all over NicNat in the first term but not so in the second - definitely came again in the second half.
Saad surprisingly quiet for a change.
Just as good leaders do.
It wasn't that long ago we were exasperated about what looked like a lack of leadership.
What a fast turnaround 👏
Maybe the solution was to get one of, if not the, best leaders of this century in, to tell them how to do it!!!
My final comment will piss people off, but i am happy to revisit and requote at the end of the year for those who are going to abuse me now. Here it is: "We will not make finals in 2022" after losing this pathetic game to Richmond. I'm serious. We need 4 more wins. Where are they coming from ? Maybe WC is one. Maybe. Adelaide? Good luck with that on their ground. Rest of them... doubtful. We had an easy draw and bathed in the glory.
2 more to go.
The loses we had recently will cost us dearly, Freo will be entrenched in the Top 4 now and that will mean interstate finals for those on outside.
Tough gig coming this week, Handbaggers have two rucks in top form, Cameron in top form, and they won't turn over the footy so easily as some other opponents.
I reckon we match up well on them
Got it done which is what good teams do. Put the foot down when needed and our leaders who for so many years we have been crying out for lifted and put the game beyond doubt.
If you want to find negatives you will find them but not many teams play a perfect game and once we add in Pit, McGovern, Owies and Williams back in this team we will be a dangerous opponent come finals.
Sometimes we lose sight of where this team is - We are still at least a few years from when this list should be peaking and yet deep into the season the destiny in still in our hands to secure a top 4 spot and from there anything can happen. Who would of thought at this stage last year.
This is a very even year and the year where a flag could be won from outside the 4 and we are the team no one will want to play. If we have close to a full team we are right in this.
This was the first game of the season where I was genuinely concerned about our chances. West Coast have been steadily getting their better players back and their performances over the last month or so have been pretty good. In fact, their best footy is very good, as they showed in the second quarter.
Despite still missing many of our first choice players, our second quarter lapse, and playing on West Coast's own dungheap, we delivered a good old-fashioned flogging.
x2.
I was concerned as well. With Saints and Tigers loosing it became such an important game for us to win to put us 2 games clear of Tigers in 8th place. Percentage now looking a bit more healthy.
When was the last time we turned a 3 goal 3/4 time lead into a thumping (10gl + win)? Great sign.
Bam Bam and Hewie were outstanding all day. Walshy and Crippa imposed themselves with a fierce final qtr in particular. Good to see Cerra return to form, he's so important.
I thought TDK was incredibly instrumental in the win. Thus far, an incredible success story for the season.
The big winner was our brand; our way. Great to hear from an opposing senior coach that, 'We knew what Carlton would bring, they're a very honest side, very hard at it, we prepared for that (paraphrased a bit).' We're gaining respect which was a stated goal at the beginning of the year.
When was the last time we turned a 3 goal 3/4 time lead into a thumping (10gl + win)? Great sign.
Bam Bam and Hewie were outstanding all day. Walshy and Crippa imposed themselves with a fierce final qtr in particular. Good to see Cerra return to form, he's so important.
I thought TDK was incredibly instrumental in the win. Thus far, an incredible success story for the season.
The big winner was our brand; our way. Great to hear from an opposing senior coach that, 'We knew what Carlton would bring, they're a very honest side, very hard at it, we prepared for that (paraphrased a bit).' We're gaining respect which was a stated goal at the beginning of the year.
Ill just add one more, SOS. Another great game, maturity beyond his years.
Ill say this, if we make finals, the importance of SOS will be realised by all. He is made for finals footy.
I thought Cripps and Walsh were less imposing than usual until the final quarter and then they both turned it on.
TDK was all over NicNat in the first term but not so in the second - definitely came again in the second half.
Saad surprisingly quiet for a change.
I thought Williams changed the momentum in the second quarter when he was rucking.
Bit of a rough edge to him and we rucked Jack for too long, NicNat is overhyped imo and while he gets his share of hitouts I thought TDK was better value for 4 quarters.
Just a quick acknowledgment of Will Hayes in his first game for us.
I wasn’t convinced that he’d done enough to get a game but he certainly didn’t look out of place in his last quarter cameo.
There may not have been as much pressure from the opposition when he came on, but he seemed to have plenty of time and his decision-making was good.
I thought Williams changed the momentum in the second quarter when he was rucking.
Bit of a rough edge to him and we rucked Jack for too long, NicNat is overhyped imo and while he gets his share of hitouts I thought TDK was better value for 4 quarters.
I've been watching the replay and I think this is pretty accurate. Early in the second quarter Jack got smashed in the ruck. It got the Weagles' confidence up. Bailey Williams looked like he has a future as a ruckman.
NicNat looked fat today. I've never seen him with real belly fat before. He is a lazy player. Honestly, with his physical gifts, he could have been the best ruckman in history, had he had the desire. He's been a top ruck, but he is capable of so much more.
NicNat got his confidence up later in the second quarter and early in the third, but Tom really stepped up from about half way through the third.
One of the things that NicNat does well when he's on top is direct his taps to advantage. It was one of the reasons that Cripps and Walsh didn't get as much ball; the taps went directly down a Weagle throat.
Willi Rioli is another guy who is carrying a real gut. Granted, he has always been a little heavier, but he really looks like he's been eating a few too many Maccas. He makes Whitnall's skinfolds look good.
Jack Silvagni was very ordinary early in this game, but he was one who stepped up when it mattered. Unfortunately, teams no longer get put off when Jack rucks. The sooner Marc Pittonet is ready, the better.
Jacob Weitering was really rusty. He did a reasonable job, but he as nowhere near his best. He will be better for the run. Young, on the other hand, defended very well. He didn't get a lot of ball himself, but he got to a lot of contested and did the job nicely.
Cerra and Hewett had good ones, as did Kennedy. But they get a lot of possessions that don't stand out. I'm not complaining, as they the work they do is indispensable. But, one day, they might get on the end sometimes and get the kudos they deserve.
Our three whipping boys, Cottrell, Newnes and O'Brien had quieter games today. But I wouldn't looking to drop any of them yet. Cottrell didn't get the possessions, but did some excellent defensive things. O'Brien was very good early, but drifted out of the game. Newnes got a corky early and didn't have the day he wanted.
One thing to their disadvantage was that Hayes came on and got 5 possessions in less than a quarter.
I still like the look of Bazzo. If he wants to come East and play for a decent club, he would fit in nicely.
I can't remember the last time Saad was as quiet as this, but I guess it didn't get down there in the 1st and last quarters. Still, our small defenders did a great job at smothering the Weagles' small forwards.
We still have some work to turn our inside 50's into scores. Especially in the first quarter. We really need to be more unpredictable when we got forward, lower the eyes. Bombing the ball would be OK if our small forwards got goals from them, but they don't.
After a rusty start last week it was nice to see Cerra back doing what he does best, distributing.
Attended 14 centre bounces. Last week he attended zero.
I can't remember the last time Saad was as quiet as this, but I guess it didn't get down there in the 1st and last quarters. Still, our small defenders did a great job at smothering the Weagles' small forwards.
Such are opposition tactics.
I don't think Saad was quiet as much as Wet Toast dragged him up the field to keep him away from the fall of the ball, he seemed to spend all day turning to run back under the footy to get back to the contest. It didn't really work, because I thought Doc and Newman, were pretty dominant and well supported by Plowman and Weiters coming off their direct opponents. Cottrell also ran deep to help out at both ends. Voss would probably be happy in this regard.
I thought Motlop was better this week, but I still can't see Motlop or Honey holding Owies out if we can get him fit. If I had to make one criticism we did not make enough of a lot of ground ball opportunities inside our F50, for that reason Owies must come back in.
When the pressure was on I thought the biggest influence on the game was our panic, we failed to give off the footy multiple times and it turned certain scores into opposition rebounds which let Wet Toast back into the game. We just need to stay calm and do the basics.
I didn't see the midfield as being dominant for us, for me excluding a short period in the 2nd Qtr it was a nil-all draw in there which to me is a TDK / SoJ win. Most of the genuine scoring came from turnovers or stoppages in general play, Doc was pretty good today, so I probably should have given him votes.
I liked Saads game and it shows why is he is such a good footballer that he could sacrifice his own game to concentrate on defending the likes of the dangerous Ryan and Rioli.
Been value for dollar has Saad which is more than I can say for a few other notable signings and if the AA panel dont select him in the final 22 then they dont have a clue...
I thought there was a lot of love from our boys for Samo after the game.
I thought there was a lot of love from our boys for Samo after the game.
He did help us out with a few turnovers and non chases so we probably owed him.....
My final comment will piss people off, but i am happy to revisit and requote at the end of the year for those who are going to abuse me now. Here it is: "We will not make finals in 2022" after losing this pathetic game to Richmond. I'm serious. We need 4 more wins. Where are they coming from ? Maybe WC is one. Maybe. Adelaide? Good luck with that on their ground. Rest of them... doubtful. We had an easy draw and bathed in the glory.
2 more to go.
Yep, after the Geelong game we have Adelaide and the Giants. Win those and we’re finals bound. Even just 1 more win might see us through if we protect our percentage.
St Kilda is 2 games behind us while WB, PA & GC are 3 games behind with only 6 games to go. We have a better percentage than all of them, so you can add another game to our lead. (Yes, it’s always possible that 100 point wins or losses might change that, but banking on bridging the percentage gap is usually wishful thinking as it would be if we dreamed of catching up with Brisbane’s percentage).
Let’s give us just 1 more win for the year but assume our percentage will stay above the 4 chasers. Then St Kilda would need to win 4 of its remaining 6 while WB, PA & GC would need to win 5 of their upcoming games to get ahead of us. They may all fall short as they face top 8 sides or each other:
StK: Dogs, Cats, Lions, Swans (bearing in mind they’ve won only 1 out of their last 5, being last week’s debacle😔)
WB: Saints, Dees, Cats, Freo
PA: Dees, Cats, Pies, Tigers
GC: Bombers, Lions, Cats.
There’s a fair chance those 4 teams will find it hard to gain traction.
Hewett is amazing to watch. He's got that very low centre of gravity by the looks...can turn and twist and hardly ever loses his feet or gets caught with it. He's been an amazing pick up for us.
It was a win-win for Carlton and Sydney. Talking to Sydney fans, they aren’t sooking that Hewett left. They want to see Warner developed in the midfield as they see him as the next big thing. In that sense, Hewett was a list clogger. Apart from that issue, whether because of their midfield setup or a lack of imagination, the Swans played him as a lockdown tagger and Hewett obviously felt that he had more to offer.
Picking up Hewett has been a similar sort of thing to the Suns picking up Levi Casboult. Suns fans (if there is such a thing) would be celebrating our stupidity in letting him go. Although he would have been a welcome backup after Pitt went down, we needed to get time into Charlie, H, JSOS & TdK in the F50 so Levi was worth more to the Suns than he was to us.
we beat a bottom side good but what concerns me we still go long bomb straight to H and C against top side they will defend better and we turn the ball over ,need to share load to take next step
we beat a bottom side good but what concerns me we still go long bomb straight to H and C against top side they will defend better and we turn the ball over ,need to share load to take next step
When your two key forwards are clunking almost everything that comes their way and our crumbers are feasting on the balls that come to ground, why wouldn't you bomb the ball long?
In fact, most of our inside 50s were honouring leads or chip kicks to a player in space and I think that we have the mix pretty right.
It was a win-win for Carlton and Sydney. Talking to Sydney fans, they aren’t sooking that Hewett left. They want to see Warner developed in the midfield as they see him as the next big thing. In that sense, Hewett was a list clogger. Apart from that issue, whether because of their midfield setup or a lack of imagination, the Swans played him as a lockdown tagger and Hewett obviously felt that he had more to offer.
Yes, they might be re-writing history a little there. As you highlight he hardly spent time in the midfield, but when he did he was as good as any. I remember a game against the Dees when he and Newman dominated, the season before Newman moved to us. But like Newman before him, Hewett got side-lined in the Swans midfield pecking order.
Newman moved to us to become a serviceable defender, and Hewett is a rolled gold midfielder / utility.
But I still assert, in our current midfield the sum is greater than the parts, they have a genuine footy chemistry going, because of that if they stick together they have serious opportunities coming their way!
But that’s the thing: Hewett complements our other mids but maybe that wasn’t going to happen in Sydney as they developed younger mids. A similar thing was true of Brodie at Gold Coast. He’s a very capable in-and-under at Freo but what sort of opportunity could he have been given at Gold Coast when Matt Rowell was always going to given that role? Playing too many in-and-unders slows you down too much and you end up losing the ability to burst away from packs, rack up uncontested possessions and the defensive pressure the midfield applies drops. It would have been the same outcome at Carlton if we had taken Brodie in the draft. Playing both Brodie and Cripps at centre square bounces wouldn’t have been ideal. So it’s not whether a player is worthy in absolute terms, it’s whether he fits into your game plan.
Yea, friends with a Swans diehard who was filthy at the club for letting Hewett go.
I'm not sure if either of these have been mentioned but there were a couple of little moments that gave me an indication that this is a real 'team' who acknowledge the good and console the not so good.
,
One was when Curnow kicked a goal after a good bit of lead-up (chase and kick) from McKay.
As McKay came to embrace him Curnow pointed at him as if to say this is the bloke responsible for that goal.
The other was when Cripps made a bad blue and Jack gave him a quick talking and encouragement probably saying something along the lines of.... "Don't worry lets, get on with it."
We used to worry about leadership.
We don't need to worry anymore.
We have it on every line.
I liked Saads game and it shows why is he is such a good footballer that he could sacrifice his own game to concentrate on defending the likes of the dangerous Ryan and Rioli.
Been value for dollar has Saad which is more than I can say for a few other notable signings and if the AA panel dont select him in the final 22 then they dont have a clue...
Yes indeed, its amazing how the inclusion of key a defender completely changes the both structures and roles. I felt it Weiters inclusion to be "The General" released Doc more than past weeks to provide run and delivery which allowed Saad to stay at home and lock down on a fwd.
I'm not sure if either of these have been mentioned but there were a couple of little moments that gave me an indication that this is a real 'team' who acknowledge the good and console the not so good.
,
One was when Curnow kicked a goal after a good bit of lead-up (chase and kick) fro McKay.
As McKay came to embrace him Curnow pointed at him as if to say this is the bloke responsible for that goal.
The other was when Cripps made a bad blue and Jack gave him a quick talking and encouragement probably saying something along the lines of.... "Don't worry lets, get on with it."
We used to worry about leadership.
We don't need to worry anymore.
We have it on every line.
Yep. 2 very good examples there.
It highlights 2 things to me.
1. The importance put on rewarding those who give effort with acknowledgement of such things. Why would you bust your butt to do the team things if nobody notices? Point it out, highlight it, and players will do it again and again.
2. Nobody, not even the captain is above criticism and/or in need of picking up. One in all in.
There was also another moment, this one by the commentators that i liked.
It was in reference to Cripps and Walsh and the Batman and Robin tag thats been used for them. Basically saying "we don't know if its batman and robin, or robin and batman. It should be Lennon + McCartney as they are both elite.
He did help us out with a few turnovers and non chases so we probably owed him.....
😂
I'm not sure if either of these have been mentioned but there were a couple of little moments that gave me an indication that this is a real 'team' who acknowledge the good and console the not so good.
,
One was when Curnow kicked a goal after a good bit of lead-up (chase and kick) from McKay.
As McKay came to embrace him Curnow pointed at him as if to say this is the bloke responsible for that goal.
The other was when Cripps made a bad blue and Jack gave him a quick talking and encouragement probably saying something along the lines of.... "Don't worry lets, get on with it."
We used to worry about leadership.
We don't need to worry anymore.
We have it on every line.
I think that Vossy’s “How can I be a better teammate?” mantra has made a significant difference.
The raw material was there, it just needed a coach who knows how to build team culture.
I think that Vossy’s “How can I be a better teammate?” mantra has made a significant difference.
The raw material was there, it just needed a coach who knows how to build team culture.
Yes, the turnaround in team culture is amazing and in a way highlights where the problems probably lay during the struggle years.
Spot on DJC....the Voss stamp on things is pretty clear IMHO. He was a ruthless competitor. Saw Chris Scott on The Front Bar a couple of weeks back and he said as much when asked about who was the best of the Lions in those years. It's strange when you think back to late last year when all the talk was about who would be coach. I wasn't sold on Voss at the time but geez he hasn't done much wrong. There's still a few things to be ironed out but when you consider the players that we've had unavailable throughout the year, it's a pretty good result to be one game off the top of the ladder. I think 11 wins is on a par with 2013 and we've still got 6 games to go.
Spot on DJC....the Voss stamp on things is pretty clear IMHO. He was a ruthless competitor. Saw Chris Scott on The Front Bar a couple of weeks back and he said as much when asked about who was the best of the Lions in those years. It's strange when you think back to late last year when all the talk was about who would be coach. I wasn't sold on Voss at the time but geez he hasn't done much wrong. There's still a few things to be ironed out but when you consider the players that we've had unavailable throughout the year, it's a pretty good result to be one game off the top of the ladder. I think 11 wins is on a par with 2013 and we've still got 6 games to go.
I'll put my hand up and say I was far from convinced in Voss as well.
Imo he almost single handedly ruined the lions by recruiting some over the hill bloke named fevola and sent plenty of talent packing (indirectly, or directly) as a result.
Now I still stand by that.
...and he may well do the same thing here if/when given the opportunity. However, I'd like to think he has learned from those mistakes and his interaction with players seems to be proof that his focus has changed since his early coaching days.
In terms of actual coaching results, you cant really fault him.
Spot on DJC....the Voss stamp on things is pretty clear IMHO. He was a ruthless competitor. Saw Chris Scott on The Front Bar a couple of weeks back and he said as much when asked about who was the best of the Lions in those years. It's strange when you think back to late last year when all the talk was about who would be coach. I wasn't sold on Voss at the time but geez he hasn't done much wrong. There's still a few things to be ironed out but when you consider the players that we've had unavailable throughout the year, it's a pretty good result to be one game off the top of the ladder. I think 11 wins is on a par with 2013 and we've still got 6 games to go.
I think a bit of the indifference towards Voss last year stemmed for the fact that some may have still regarded him as that young Brisbane coach, fresh from playing.
He would have grown and learned a lot in the subsequent years.
Like players, you develop with the experience.
The successful Carlton coach was always going to have a bit of luck attached to it.
The right man, in the right place, with the right list, at the right time.
We're not totally there yet, but there's every indication that the 'planets might just have aligned' to produce that outcome.
I think a bit of the indifference towards Voss last year stemmed for the fact that some may have still regarded him as that young Brisbane coach, fresh from playing.
He would have grown and learned a lot in the subsequent years.
Like players, you develop with the experience.
The successful Carlton coach was always going to have a bit of luck attached to it.
The right man, in the right place, with the right list, at the right time.
We're not totally there yet, but there's every indication that the 'planets might just have aligned' to produce that outcome.
I trusted Cook's endorsement.
Lets be realistic Voss was last man standing territory after Clarkson, Lyon all bailed on the job for different reasons and wasnt a popular pick with a lot of supporters either given his previous history as a coach at Brisbane where he made some horrendous recruiting decisions and buggered the club up for a fair period.
However his skillset has proven what we need given he was an aggressive hard midfielder himself and we were a talented list in the making but playing a soft bruise free brand. He seems to have learned to leave the recruiting to the experts and has a good team of assistants headed by Hansen and off field he doesnt have to think about much with Cook running a stable administration finally and the Prez after a poor start also learning to leave it to the experts.
Its about building a finals team that can play repeat finals series now and stay in the window imho,
Lets be realistic Voss was last man standing territory after Clarkson, Lyon all bailed on the job for different reasons and wasnt a popular pick with a lot of supporters either given his previous history as a coach at Brisbane where he made some horrendous recruiting decisions and buggered the club up for a fair period.
However his skillset has proven what we need given he was an aggressive hard midfielder himself and we were a talented list in the making but playing a soft bruise free brand. He seems to have learned to leave the recruiting to the experts and has a good team of assistants headed by Hansen and off field he doesnt have to think about much with Cook running a stable administration finally and the Prez after a poor start also learning to leave it to the experts.
Its about building a finals team that can play repeat finals series now and stay in the window imho,
I'm not sure about that EB. Sayers wanted to get candidates to be interviewed, Lyon refused because he didn't want to face the questioning from the women on the panel. Had he agreed to be interviewed, Vossy would have slaughtered Lyon in that regard. I'm not so sure Cook would have been so keen to endorse him either over Voss. Clarko was the man they wanted but his heart wasn't in it. In hindsight, I am glad they chose Voss.
We should have hired Voss when we hired Teague. Wasted 2 years as a result.
We should have hired Voss when we hired Teague. Wasted 2 years as a result.
We could've hired Voss when we hired ratten too.
It was a case of 3rd time lucky for vossy.
I'm not sure about that EB. Sayers wanted to get candidates to be interviewed, Lyon refused because he didn't want to face the questioning from the women on the panel. Had he agreed to be interviewed, Vossy would have slaughtered Lyon in that regard. I'm not so sure Cook would have been so keen to endorse him either over Voss. Clarko was the man they wanted but his heart wasn't in it. In hindsight, I am glad they chose Voss.
GTC...We went after Brad Scott as well and got told No as he wanted an AFL admin career and Don Pyke also didnt want it.......
Appreciate Lyon wasnt comfortable having his dirty Freo laundry on display but I think if he had gone through the interview process he would have got close to getting the job but was also happy working in the media and his property company job.
As I said I think Voss was the last choice after we got told No by all the others and were down to candidates like Adam Kingsley and Collingwood had taken McRae..
I'll put my hand up and say I was far from convinced in Voss as well.
Imo he almost single handedly ruined the lions by recruiting some over the hill bloke named fevola and sent plenty of talent packing (indirectly, or directly) as a result.
Now I still stand by that.
...and he may well do the same thing here if/when given the opportunity. However, I'd like to think he has learned from those mistakes and his interaction with players seems to be proof that his focus has changed since his early coaching days.
In terms of actual coaching results, you cant really fault him.
To me, he seems to have pulled his head in considerably since those days coaching the Lions - he just displayed sheer arrogance with the signing of Fev and all the BS that followed.
This was the first game of the season where I was genuinely concerned about our chances. West Coast have been steadily getting their better players back and their performances over the last month or so have been pretty good. In fact, their best footy is very good, as they showed in the second quarter.
Despite still missing many of our first choice players, our second quarter lapse, and playing on West Coast's own dungheap, we delivered a good old-fashioned flogging.
My thoughts exactly.
So impressed to see the boys turn it on from the first bounce. Better still they went up another gear q4. Just sensational with much stacked against us. Winning away, especially when you can't get a training run on the ground, is worth 2 wins at home.
Lets be realistic Voss was last man standing territory after Clarkson, Lyon all bailed on the job for different reasons and wasnt a popular pick with a lot of supporters either given his previous history as a coach at Brisbane where he made some horrendous recruiting decisions and buggered the club up for a fair period.
However his skillset has proven what we need given he was an aggressive hard midfielder himself and we were a talented list in the making but playing a soft bruise free brand. He seems to have learned to leave the recruiting to the experts and has a good team of assistants headed by Hansen and off field he doesnt have to think about much with Cook running a stable administration finally and the Prez after a poor start also learning to leave it to the experts.
Its about building a finals team that can play repeat finals series now and stay in the window imho,
I think that's largely false media speculation EB. Clarkson, Buckley and Scott were never genuine candidates and Lyon ruled himself out when he realised that Greg Williams was intending to go through a proper selection process (Lyon probably realised that Diesel would see right through him). The real contenders for the job were Voss, King and Giansiracusa.
A few supporters may have thought that Voss's time at Brisbane meant that he would never be a senior coach again. Many thought that his experience as Brisbane's senior coach, his highly valued work as an assistant coach at Port Adelaide, and his stellar playing career made him the ideal person to make our club competitive again, and that has proved to be the case.
Of course, Voss's assistants are a huge improvement over what Bolton and Teague had (with the possible exception of Craig), but that's largely down to Voss understanding what was required and getting his own way.
And I don't think we played soft, bruise-free footy under Bolton and Teague; we played hard but without much purpose or direction.
You have to be very careful when analysis is based on media commentary, the media isn't impartial, it is not just reporting the facts, in fact the AFL section of the media is far from impartial, it's usually a jobs for the boys setup and they spin stories to look after each others reputation.
To me, he seems to have pulled his head in considerably since those days coaching the Lions - he just displayed sheer arrogance with the signing of Fev and all the BS that followed.
I wouldn't call it arrogance. I dont think he thought it would be easy. It just showed how big a leap coaching can be from playing.
Fev was arguably the best key forward in the game at the time and we were cutting him loose.
Voss was only guilty of being immature and expecting that people would put aside their differences and simply fall into line behind brown.
Why? Because he played in a similar environment where the Indians fell in or fell out and everyone pulled together.
Odds are he knew there was trouble early and didn't know how to correct it which led to his downfall.
Its possible that this learning has been way more important than anything else he may or may not have done before or after.
Leigh matthews is regarded as a great coach, but even he struggled to coach Collingwood to anything of note in a time when coaching wasn't the caper it has become in the modern era.
Leigh matthews is regarded as a great coach, but even he struggled to coach Collingwood to anything of note in a time when coaching wasn't the caper it has become in the modern era.
Lethal is also a big advocate for potential coaches to go and learn the trade through an apprenticeship away from the club you played for, that's two things Voss had running against him in his first gig, he never served an apprenticeship and he walked straight into the top job at the club he had played for with zero experience.
We could've hired Voss when we hired ratten too.
It was a case of 3rd time lucky for vossy.
Voss needed to do an apprenticeship which he missed out on by getting the Lions gig too early. The years under Hinkley at Port Adelaide, while they were contenders, have been instrumental in creating the coach we have now.
Voss needed to do an apprenticeship which he missed out on by getting the Lions gig too early. The years under Hinkley at Port Adelaide, while they were contenders, have been instrumental in creating the coach we have now.
Agree
Lethal is also a big advocate for potential coaches to go and learn the trade through an apprenticeship away from the club you played for, that's two things Voss had running against him in his first gig, he never served an apprenticeship and he walked straight into the top job at the club he had played for with zero experience.
Much like Tim Watson did with St Kilda. Doomed to failure. Strong personalities who think that they can just turn into a coach without any sort of experience in the coaching caper.
I think a bit of the indifference towards Voss last year stemmed for the fact that some may have still regarded him as that young Brisbane coach, fresh from playing.
He would have grown and learned a lot in the subsequent years.
Like players, you develop with the experience.
The successful Carlton coach was always going to have a bit of luck attached to it.
The right man, in the right place, with the right list, at the right time.
We're not totally there yet, but there's every indication that the 'planets might just have aligned' to produce that outcome.
I'm chewing deep into my humble pie after what I said about his appointment.. .haha.
I'm chewing deep into my humble pie after what I said about his appointment.. .haha.
The thread discussing 'potential coaches' from this time last year makes for some pretty funny reading in hindsight.
;D
The thread discussing 'potential coaches' from this time last year makes for some pretty funny reading in hindsight.
;D
I think I called Voss was the coach I wanted in that thread. Can we resuss it so I can slap myself on the back? ;D
Carlton Coach 2022 (New Poll) (https://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=5615.1560)
Wow, 122 pages. Voss was announced as coach on page 108.
I'm chewing deep into my humble pie after what I said about his appointment.. .haha.
I was also very lukewarm about Vossy getting the gig and saw him as the consolation prize! Very pleased I got that so wrong. 🤪
Consolidation prize works well in this context :)
The thread discussing 'potential coaches' from this time last year makes for some pretty funny reading in hindsight.
;D
Yes, you’d imagine that there would be some red-faced posters after re-reading that thread. As is often the case, IBWT should win the award for the most ludicrous and malicious posts.
Good on Jim for admitting his humble pie diet 🙂
This is the only post I remember from the coaching thread.
https://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=5615.msg352701#msg352701
Consolidation prize works well in this context :)
Oops! Bloody predictive text.🤒
Fixed.
I'm chewing deep into my humble pie after what I said about his appointment.. .haha.
Happy to admit I was with you on having concerns about Voss being appointed and I still say he was a last man standing pick all be it looking like a great choice now at this stage but until that next premiership cup is in the glass cabinet at Ikon Park, I'll just keep the humble Pie in the Pie warmer for a bit longer before I take my first bite.
I want make sure it isnt another False dawn or a bit of dead cat bounce, you look at Essendon and the Bulldogs who both played finals last season but couldnt deliver this season and the jury is out still on the medium to long term. I also want to see if Brian Cook lasts the distance with us as well and if he left before the next GF appearance what effect that would have as imho he is more important than the coach.
I'm chewing deep into my humble pie after what I said about his appointment.. .haha.
Can be strangely delicious that..
Having a serve myself after doubting our chances v WC 😂
Enjoy
Can be strangely delicious that..
Having a serve myself after doubting our chances v WC 😂
Enjoy
If you have any left over LN, give me a slice please.
Found my post
Maybe this appraisal could be re-visited in 12 months. I'm still not convinced he's the best man for the job, but that's just the cynic in me,
Talk about sitting on the fence. ::)
If you have any left over LN, give me a slice please.
I think we deserve equal serves!
I'm still pinching myself. Had no expectation of being in the 8 at this point. It really takes some getting used to when you're optimism gets crushed for a decade or two. We'll have to keep working on our 'winners list craft'
I think we deserve equal serves!
I'm still pinching myself. Had no expectation of being in the 8 at this point. It really takes some getting used to when you're optimism gets crushed for a decade or two. We'll have to keep working on our 'winners list craft'
Another slice here, too, thank you!!
I'm completely confident that any team which includes and retains Weitering will be driven to succeed, as mild mannered as he comes across make no mistake, he has white-line fever when he runs onto the field and is driven to win.
If you have any left over LN, give me a slice please.
I have plenty spare. You should have seen the size of my pie...haha.
How fabulous to finally be celebrating small successes. It feels surreal that's for sure.
Sometimes when I wake up I check the ladder to make sure I hadn't dreamt it. Does that happen to anyone else?
I don't really know what to expect from here. I do know I'll be ecstatic if we do make finals. It's a real credit to everyone at the club turning this big baby around so quickly. The dark days of MM BB and even the TT seem like ancient history. Quite astounding.
Go Blues.
PS. Happy to graze on humble pie for the rest of the season.
How fabulous to finally be celebrating small successes. It feels surreal that's for sure.
Sometimes when I wake up I check the ladder to make sure I hadn't dreamt it. Does that happen to anyone else?
I don't really know what to expect from here. I do know I'll be ecstatic if we do make finals. It's a real credit to everyone at the club turning this big baby around so quickly. The dark days of MM BB and even the TT seem like ancient history. Quite astounding.
Go Blues.
PS. Happy to graze on humble pie for the rest of the season.
I'm with ya LN, I was talking to a mate the day and we asked ourselves the question, What's changed?
Apart from being 11-5 instead of the usual 5-11, the following sticks out for me:
- We play hard and we are hard to play.
- We play selfless footy instead of selfish. To quote Tina Turner, "We dont need another hero".
- We are in every game, we fight until the end.
- Before this year, I didn't know WTF they were doing on game day and I suspect many of the players didn't either. Now, every player to a man seems to know their role.
- When we are "on", we play scintillating footy and can beat anyone, anytime, anywhere.
- We we do lose, you can see exactly how we strayed from our DNA Game Style. Every other year for me it was "WTF did I just watch?"
- Our talent has come to the fore, we have a group of very talented guys who have now played many years together and they are 100% connected.
- Our whole club is united and aligned, that is more powerful than many realise.
You say you dont know what to expect, if you think about, we should now know exactly what to expect.
I'm with ya LN, I was talking to a mate the day and we asked ourselves the question, What's changed?
Apart from being 11-5 instead of the usual 5-11, the following sticks out for me:
- We play hard and we are hard to play.
- We play selfless footy instead of selfish. To quote Tina Turner, "We dont need another hero".
- We are in every game, we fight until the end.
- Before this year, I didn't know WTF they were doing on game day and I suspect many of the players didn't either. Now, every player to a man seems to know their role.
- When we are "on", we play scintillating footy and can beat anyone, anytime, anywhere.
- We we do lose, you can see exactly how we strayed from our DNA Game Style. Every other year for me it was "WTF did I just watch?"
- Our talent has come to the fore, we have a group of very talented guys who have now played many years together and they are 100% connected.
- Our whole club is united and aligned, that is more powerful than many realise.
You say you dont know what to expect, if you think about, we should now know exactly what to expect.
Of course, the frustrating thing about this series of observations is that it has been achieved with largely the same personnel we already had.
Amazing how a couple of well-targeted recruits (and not just those that run out on the footy ground) can make a world of difference. We have gone from being a laughing stock at the end of last year after the Teague/Liddle fiasco, to being one of the more stable clubs in the competition. Even Flubbo and his anti-Carlton HS mates are struggling to find a crack to write about.
Of course, the frustrating thing about this series of observations is that it has been achieved with largely the same personnel we already had.
It's not just about one or two extras, experience, continuity and games under the belt make more of a difference than anything else.
Whether you are turning over players or coaches it has the same effect, destroying continuity and hindering progress.
I think the biggest achievement of Voss is seeing an uncompromising demand for effort and sacrifice, whether it's Cripps or Carroll, you have to do the right thing by those around you. No more prima donnas! But again, some of this comes from players like Weitering and Walsh moving beyond newbies to become senior leaders with experience and games under the belt.
I'm with ya LN, I was talking to a mate the day and we asked ourselves the question, What's changed?
Apart from being 11-5 instead of the usual 5-11, the following sticks out for me:
- We play hard and we are hard to play.
- We play selfless footy instead of selfish. To quote Tina Turner, "We dont need another hero".
- We are in every game, we fight until the end.
- Before this year, I didn't know WTF they were doing on game day and I suspect many of the players didn't either. Now, every player to a man seems to know their role.
- When we are "on", we play scintillating footy and can beat anyone, anytime, anywhere.
- We we do lose, you can see exactly how we strayed from our DNA Game Style. Every other year for me it was "WTF did I just watch?"
- Our talent has come to the fore, we have a group of very talented guys who have now played many years together and they are 100% connected.
- Our whole club is united and aligned, that is more powerful than many realise.
You say you dont know what to expect, if you think about, we should now know exactly what to expect.
Top notch summary, GTC Old Son.
Lets not forget that we have Ashley Hanson here now. He is credited with being a bit of a tactical weapon that the Bulldogs appear to be missing sorely.
Lets not forget that we have Ashley Hanson here now. He is credited with being a bit of a tactical weapon that the Bulldogs appear to be missing sorely.
I have nearly always credited the Assistants when I praise Voss (ie coaching staff). The previous lot of bone heads wouldnt carry this lots bags.