a few weeks ago we were 21.41 over a 3 week period. Adding the weeks since, we are now at 33.65. Thats abhorrent.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: laj on June 11, 2023, 09:56:55 pm
With our players it is a game we should win comfortably but we just gave up.
Always hard with the attitude and culture of our club but Voss has lost the players. Can only compare efforts to those of other coaches. We fought much harder under Teague, except at the very end. Even then that attitude aspect wasn't great but we were often respectable on the scoreboard and more respectable in effort. Here we have given up completely. We are going way worse now than then, both in effort and on the scoreboard.
Coach is gone, don't care what the club is saying. He's lost the players completely. It's a mess. But, we also must weed out those responsible for the bad attitude and culture in the club, even if it sets us back in the short term. We have a decent enough list to properly compete, as we found last year, but right now it will all be just wasted unless something is done.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: laj on June 11, 2023, 09:57:50 pm
Forward coaches are at the mercy of what happens up the ground.
What happens up the ground Jim is exactly my point - we’re getting it in plenty
2 Coleman medalists and we’re averaging 7 goals a game fark me
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 11, 2023, 10:02:23 pm
Embarrassing to lose like we did , effort was there early but we just fell away physically and with our skills. More depressed than angry with the lack of fight and spirit and our leadership needs a shakeup. List Management is horrendous with dud players, no midfield balance and no depth.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: rocky on June 11, 2023, 10:04:39 pm
Another wasted year.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: shawny on June 11, 2023, 10:06:03 pm
All coaches including Voss, all recruiting staff and all members of the board should move on. All of em.
Then the new administration must have the balls to trade every singe player we have if we get a favourable deal. No one is off limits Not one player. Rebuild is over gents. It failed and while it’s hard to except as it failed without us firing a single shot and we lost 8 years waiting but that’s life. Deal with it Blues and for once show some balls and start now with the massive changes needed to get us competitive again.
Trying to make subtle changes in the belief this list still only needs tweaks and small adjustments is why we never fling get anywhere. I don’t give 2 sh1ts about our history with axing coaches or changing boards - we need to be ruthless accept it for what it is and make the massive wholesale changes on all levels.
Anything less will just prop us up for another 2-3 years before we admit the inevitable.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 11, 2023, 10:06:11 pm
Embarrassing to lose like we did , effort was there early but we just fell away physically and with our skills. More depressed than angry with the lack of fight and spirit and our leadership needs a shakeup. List Management is horrendous with dud players, no midfield balance and no depth.
Leadership contrast between the 2 teams was stark. Their's is excellent, ours seems non existent ATM.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: LoveNavy on June 11, 2023, 10:07:27 pm
Midfield is one pace. We can't even win the clearances like we used to, so no point having that make-up. We've fallen from grace with our centre clearances in particular. Remember how slick we looked last year before injuries crippled us?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Thryleon on June 11, 2023, 10:09:11 pm
That third quarter was a repeat of every other time we thought we were going ok. They went whack the collective shoulders drop amd that's the end of that.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: LoveNavy on June 11, 2023, 10:10:17 pm
Positives from tonight. Barry Humphries awarded Order of Australia
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: laj on June 11, 2023, 10:10:43 pm
Why was Young left on Wright for so long? Why didn't they swap Weiters and Young?
Weitering has to get the best tall forward each game...its a no brainer......Weideman is a spud and Young should have been on him.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: spf on June 11, 2023, 10:12:09 pm
If Brian Cook cannot fix this place, then I really have no idea who can. Neil Balme? Add him to Cook, and Roos and anyone else we think can help? It's culture, it's development, it's system...it's most things.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 11, 2023, 10:13:17 pm
Best for Us Cerra Walsh TDK Weiters
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Smurfy on June 11, 2023, 10:14:02 pm
suns will pound us next week as well
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: PaulP on June 11, 2023, 10:14:43 pm
I thought Cincotta was quite OK too.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Smurfy on June 11, 2023, 10:15:37 pm
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Professer E on June 11, 2023, 10:15:59 pm
Dow must start next game. Binns and Fog as well. Cunners sub.
I'd be tempted to try Fog in a BP as Boyd as a small defender is a waste of time. Delist.
There's a long list of blokes out of form but JSOS is so slow it's painful to watch. It's him or Kennedy, changing across half forward. Ruck MacG if relief is required.
Cincotta and Kemp are two of the positives from this year IMO. Surely there's more rookie gold to find, if only we looked for it.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 11, 2023, 10:17:41 pm
Walsh....something isnt right, he gets the ball but just has no impact, nothing comes from his work and as has been suggested by other posters maybe his back isnt right.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Professer E on June 11, 2023, 10:20:17 pm
A lot of the leadership issues have to be pointed at the bloke wearing number nine. Because he isn't showing any.
If you aren't right, don't play.
And if he's white anting the coach pack him off.
I
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 11, 2023, 10:20:26 pm
Walsh....something isnt right, he gets the ball but just has no impact, nothing comes from his work and as has been suggested by other posters maybe his back isnt right.
Didnt lay a tackle so you may be right about the back.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Professer E on June 11, 2023, 10:24:27 pm
100%
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: spf on June 11, 2023, 10:24:36 pm
So Cripps doesn't play for a couple of weeks, I doubt it will affect our season much. Cunningham to come back hopefully, play Dow for an extended period in his preferred position, play Kennedy rotating out of the forward pocket and midfield. Time to try something new.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 11, 2023, 10:24:41 pm
Dow must start next game. Binns and Fog as well. Cunners sub.
I'd be tempted to try Fog in a BP as Boyd as a small defender is a waste of time. Delist.
There's a long list of blokes out of form but JSOS is so slow it's painful to watch. It's him or Kennedy, changing across half forward. Ruck MacG if relief is required.
Cincotta and Kemp are two of the positives from this year IMO. Surely there's more rookie gold to find, if only we looked for it.
Prof, Cuningham has to start in the middle we just have no run at all, Binns should have played as should have Fogarty. Yep Fogarty aint quick but he has a go and can stick a tackle. Id put Dow on a wing, our present wingers just cant go with the quicker opposition types. Martin smashed us tonight and Im not sure what Acres is bringing given most of his kicks are high loopy floaters banged anywhere. Dont think Jack can command a place anymore as a forward or as a defender and we cant add him to our slow as treacle midfield either....going to have to be some serious conversations about his future at season end.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Professer E on June 11, 2023, 10:41:09 pm
I was trying to be kind EB, I think his lack of pace has caught up with him and I fear JSoS is finished. He can't get separation and we don't deliver the ball well enough to exploit any space he creates.
The example in the last where he squared a pass inboard to Motlop (who messed it up)...he started 20 metres clear and almost got run down.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: madbluboy on June 11, 2023, 10:44:08 pm
This is a list issue and the list manager needs to go
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: laj on June 11, 2023, 10:45:25 pm
Walsh....something isnt right, he gets the ball but just has no impact, nothing comes from his work and as has been suggested by other posters maybe his back isnt right.
Brought him back way too early.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: laj on June 11, 2023, 10:49:35 pm
This is a list issue and the list manager needs to go
One year we are the most exciting side to watch, decent skills, nearly making finals with just half a side every week, the next year the most boring and least skilled. What has changed?
Attitude and culture issue. Until that's fixed you could put the very best players in the competition in our side and we'd still go crap.
Of course lists can be improved, like any list.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: pinot on June 11, 2023, 10:50:32 pm
This is bad - real bad. Its not the players its the culture of the club.
We have a very good list but if key players like Cripps that are not performing its hard for the rest when the rest ARE pulling thier weight,.
Sorry but it's time to put Cripps on trading table or drop him to VFL.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: laj on June 11, 2023, 10:50:59 pm
Prof, Cuningham has to start in the middle we just have no run at all, Binns should have played as should have Fogarty. Yep Fogarty aint quick but he has a go and can stick a tackle. Id put Dow on a wing, our present wingers just cant go with the quicker opposition types. Martin smashed us tonight and Im not sure what Acres is bringing given most of his kicks are high loopy floaters banged anywhere. Dont think Jack can command a place anymore as a forward or as a defender and we cant add him to our slow as treacle midfield either....going to have to be some serious conversations about his future at season end.
We actually played Fisher at half back today and he gave us plenty.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: spf on June 11, 2023, 10:52:08 pm
I think the problem is with the board giving too much influence towards Cripps.
I love him but it's time for him to go.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Mantis on June 11, 2023, 10:57:25 pm
Cerra is a win but Acres is a fail. Total waste of money in my opinion. Never sold on him. Plays 2 great games then 4 or 5 B-grade efforts, if not complete crapters. Disposal accuracy is definitely questionable. Especially under pressure. Not that quick. Not a tackle machine. I would drop him for something in youth. Our season is all but over. Get the kids in. They may step up and at least develop at top level.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: pinot on June 11, 2023, 11:03:52 pm
Acres is a future third round pick on $300k..... he is the least of our problems
Club just needs to be not "smart" because they are quite dumb.... but ruthless in list management decisions because past six weeks have been unacceptable and its not the coach,, players look conditional on which games to play well. There is always the VFL for them.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 11, 2023, 11:06:30 pm
I think the problem is with the board giving too much influence towards Cripps.
I love him but it's time for him to go.
How on earth do you know this? Get a grip seriously. He signed mid last year for what 6 years? Now suddenly he’s bad for the culture, bad attitude, not good enough, only had one good year.
He seems professional to me. Got a running coach, a speaking coach. Taking it upon himself to improve himself. Yet now he’s the problem?
Saw a HUGE number of players get the ball. Stop, think, unsure, no fking idea, pass it sometimes ok but mostly terrible kicks or crap handballs. No one running for anyone to make position, no grunt, no shepherding.
Yet Cripps is the problem?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Macca37 on June 11, 2023, 11:26:54 pm
Until Walsh can recapture the form he had prior to his back injury and Cripps joins him with the form he had in the first half of last year, we will continue with a midfield unable to get first use of the ball and thereby unable to put pressure on the backlines of opposition teams.
No matter what plan is proposed by Voss, once the team sees Cripps and Walsh are unable to provide leadership on the field a defensive mindset seems to set in.
Unless those two regain the ability to take charge of the centre, other changes amount to moving deckchairs given who is available on our list.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 11, 2023, 11:30:28 pm
Until Walsh can recapture the form he had prior to his back injury and Cripps joins him with the form he had in the first half of last year, we will continue with a midfield unable to get first use of the ball and thereby unable to put pressure on the backlines of opposition teams.
No matter what plan is proposed by Voss, once the team sees Cripps and Walsh are unable to provide leadership on the field a defensive mindset seems to set in.
Unless those two regain the ability to take charge of the centre, other changes amount to moving deckchairs.
Voss in his presser when asked did say Cripps was fit but out of form...
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: laj on June 11, 2023, 11:52:18 pm
We actually played Fisher at half back today and he gave us plenty.
Including a few pathetic turnovers when kicking off one step (under no pressure) after a mark or free kick.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: LoveNavy on June 12, 2023, 12:04:53 am
We're now bottom 4 where we belong. It's not the only issue, but we're 18th for goal efficiency. Coleman medallists or not, that's costly and a motivation killer.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: LygonStreetLimbo on June 12, 2023, 06:43:49 am
Brodie Kemp, could you please teach your teammates to hit a target like that? Only Saady kicks as well as you, and he’s not getting as much of it recently
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 12, 2023, 06:50:14 am
Cerra is a win but Acres is a fail. Total waste of money in my opinion. Never sold on him. Plays 2 great games then 4 or 5 B-grade efforts, if not complete crapters. Disposal accuracy is definitely questionable. Especially under pressure. Not that quick. Not a tackle machine. I would drop him for something in youth. Our season is all but over. Get the kids in. They may step up and at least develop at top level.
Im not a fan either but after starting the night with an OOTF, I think he tried his guts outs. That collision on the wing was huge, didn't/doesnt shirk.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 12, 2023, 06:54:09 am
How on earth do you know this? Get a grip seriously. He signed mid last year for what 6 years? Now suddenly he’s bad for the culture, bad attitude, not good enough, only had one good year.
He seems professional to me. Got a running coach, a speaking coach. Taking it upon himself to improve himself. Yet now he’s the problem?
Saw a HUGE number of players get the ball. Stop, think, unsure, no fking idea, pass it sometimes ok but mostly terrible kicks or crap handballs. No one running for anyone to make position, no grunt, no shepherding.
Yet Cripps is the problem?
Micky my problem with him is he tries to do too much and that's probably the captain trying to carry his side and take on too much responsibility. He needs to get back to his basic best, win hard contests, squirt ball out quick. Thats it. No trying to run and take on players, no heroics, just to Crippa things, that's what we needed last night.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 12, 2023, 07:25:53 am
We're now bottom 4 where we belong. It's not the only issue, but we're 18th for goal efficiency. Coleman medallists or not, that's costly and a motivation killer.
At the 9min mark of the 2nd, Charlie had 0.4, Martin 1.2, Owies had 0.1. They were all gettable, regulation shots for fwds. Convert a few of those and we go into half time with an ok lead. Not Saying the 7 to 2 goal 3rd qtr wouldnt have happened but it may have looked totally different. Those misses absolutely deflate us every time.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: pinot on June 12, 2023, 07:29:51 am
Cripps has had one good year in four - it's time to move him on. Prime players that have under performed over a number of years should be moved on.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 12, 2023, 07:33:00 am
At the 9min mark of the 2nd, Charlie had 0.4, Martin 1.2, Owies had 0.1. They were all gettable, regulation shots for fwds. Convert a few of those and we go into half time with an ok lead. Not Saying the 7 to 2 goal 3rd qtr wouldnt have happened but it may have looked totally different. Those misses absolutely deflate us every time.
We went to water and lost the game in the third irrespective of what you're saying is true. Lots of those shots were pot shots for goal from 50 metres out in an open forward line.
Do yourself a favour and stop grasping at scoring shots for reasons we aren't winning or playing well. Our talls are too busy trying to go up one handed and can't create decent separation.
The boys aren't hungry. Are being out competed, are kicking it poorly all over the ground and not just finishing badly, play with no system, no method, look hesitant as a result and if they're match fit ill be a monkeys uncle and we are getting run over the top of.
We are not playing anywhere near our potential in general play and it's not just convert better and she will be right.
Lance franklin was regularly having 7 scoring shots and kicking roughly half of them when hawthorn were challenging.
We are miles off the pace and we have hit a new low where I can't even look at our fixture and see our next win because we are and have played this way all season.
Take the Rose coloured glasses off. Watching Lewis Young and weitering try figure out who they should be manning up on only to result in Jack silvagni manning up 2 metre peter in the third quarter told me enough about our team and how they're going.
The boys need to concentrate less on doing things and more on team structure.
Plowman is not a great individual footballer but I see no evidence that we play better footy with him out of the team.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: laj on June 12, 2023, 07:35:29 am
Perhaps - but is not at AFL standard and needs to play VFL. He is far too influential to have so many bad games
I think its what I said earlier, the bloke is trying to do too much, needs to do what he does best, win hard contested footy and dish off quick.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Lods on June 12, 2023, 08:05:59 am
Bizarre A real Jekyll and Hyde effort. Never really a great all night but...
First Half:- "Look what we can do. we can match it with this lot." Second Half: OK, You've seen enough. If you want to see more, be a member in 2024
Well I suspect for a lot of folks that's not going to be an option they'll take up.
Just on Young. Ability aside. The bloke looks totally devoid of confidence. Now in terms of size he may have been the best match-up for Wright but it was a bit like watching torture seeing him trying to cope. I suspect, and rightly perhaps, that the players around him lack confidence in Young...and Young feels it. We've contracted him until 2026 I'm not sure what we're going to do with him, but it's hard to see us going forward with Young as our second big defender.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: madbluboy on June 12, 2023, 08:14:12 am
We keep getting smashed in the centre .
Stoppage Clearances: 19-16 in our favour Centre Clearances: 13-7 to the Bombers
This has been happening all year.
We had 56-41 inside 50s however tackles inside 50 were 19-7. Total tackles we lost 64-33.
8 of our players didn't lay a tackle including Walsh who plays full time midfield.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 12, 2023, 08:21:16 am
Stoppage Clearances: 19-16 in our favour Centre Clearances: 13-7 to the Bombers
This has been happening all year.
We had 56-41 inside 50s however tackles inside 50 were 19-7. Total tackles we lost 64-33.
8 of our players didn't lay a tackle including Walsh who plays full time midfield.
Some very damning stats there.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: PaulP on June 12, 2023, 08:25:09 am
A few random thoughts :
- I thought Voss' presser was bang on. - Low tackle count - it's rather difficult to tackle something you can't actually catch. The whole team, but mids in particular, have the collective pace of a medicated snail. We kick the ball into F50, somehow the Bombers end up with it, we don't have time to adjust our set up for the turnover, and they start running in waves, using chains of handballs to create overlap run, and we simply can't catch them. - Lots of whinging in years past about how Cripps needs help, we are skinny and easily out bodied etc. Now we have big bodies, and suddenly we are one paced. What's it to be ? - We asked for more run and dare, and we got it. - not much you can do in the middle of a season when your fastest players and best ball users are injured - Jack martin emerged unscathed. - the players are paradoxically giving effort and also in the midst of a collective morass - we outplayed them for significant periods and with accurate goal kicking that game was definitely winnable.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Lods on June 12, 2023, 08:31:11 am
Truth is, they played about 15 minutes and wiped the floor with us. :(
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Baggers on June 12, 2023, 09:01:33 am
It really is nothing new. Same old, same old. Apply sustained pressure to us and we will fold at some stage and then the opposition can score multiple goals and put the game out of reach.
Even when we have the game on our terms, just sustain the pressure and we'll find a way to fail to capitalize - we'll stuff it up some how.
A very mentally fragile football team, devoid of authoritative leadership.
Sheesh, it dates back to the MM days when he declared we were a very introverted group. We still are.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Blue Moon on June 12, 2023, 09:14:25 am
I didn't watch this game. I can't watch these games. It is the same bad movie week after week. Nothing ever changes. I have a whole lot of theories, observations and opinions on the current situation but I can't see the point. Like the players, I have given up. These are dark days.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 12, 2023, 09:19:02 am
The selection of Young on Wright was a disaster, that's a coaching box fail. Young's form is horrible and has been for weeks, he should be in the twos but we have nothing else thanks to the list management that have assembled wingers and half backs on mass but left us short in key areas. Sam Durdin is injured but he wouldn't have been any better than Young. When you have one of the best FBs in the comp in Weitering I can't fathom why he didn't start on the opposition best key forward. Young had the perfect soft tall player to man up on in Weideman yet we put him on the more dangerous Wright and paid dearly as usual.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: BluePhantom on June 12, 2023, 09:21:21 am
I didn't watch this game. I can't watch these games. It is the same bad movie week after week. Nothing ever changes. I have a whole lot of theories, observations and opinions on the current situation but I can't see the point. Like the players, I have given up. These are dark days.
These are dark days, months, years, decades! :o
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: BlackRooster on June 12, 2023, 10:22:07 am
Our Club is BROKEN. First we tried using glue to fix things that didn't work. So we decide to renovate (good move) this hasn't worked. Where to now? Do we start selling assets and see what we can get back? Do we keep the same landlord? Do we keep the same property managers? I now have no emotion watching the games, i cannot even get angry at the TV (like we all do)
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Micky0 on June 12, 2023, 10:23:05 am
Ok, to positives.
Harry. Weiters. Cerra.
Maybe we’re just improving one player at a time each game. So presumably this time next year we’ll all be good to go.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 12, 2023, 10:25:15 am
Truth is, they played about 15 minutes and wiped the floor with us. :(
Took a ruckman off just to rub our noses in it (or they felt sorry for us).
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Micky0 on June 12, 2023, 10:27:16 am
At the ground definitely what stood out to me was two or more players all going for the same ball and spoiling each other.
Not sure if it’s paranoia but can’t help but feel TDK does things for his highlight reel for his purported monster contract coming from Sydney. Just does not seem like he is doing his flying for balls for the team but rather for self.
Felt also that JSOS was making really silly errors. Also felt he was playing intentionally bad?
Things just don’t make sense watching the games.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 12, 2023, 10:30:03 am
The selection of Young on Wright was a disaster, that's a coaching box fail. Young's form is horrible and has been for weeks, he should be in the twos but we have nothing else thanks to the list management that have assembled wingers and half backs on mass but left us short in key areas. Sam Durdin is injured but he wouldn't have been any better than Young. When you have one of the best FBs in the comp in Weitering I can't fathom why he didn't start on the opposition best key forward. Young had the perfect soft tall player to man up on in Weideman yet we put him on the more dangerous Wright and paid dearly as usual.
I can only think that they didn't want to beat up on Weitering's already fragile confidence if Wright got a hold of him. That and Young just needed to farken grow a pair and do something constructive like try. Was led to the ball all night and at one point was easily blocked by a "midget" fwd. Throw your weight around at least you imbecile, start a fight, just do something that even resembles aggressive you moron. I'd almost prefer Plowman (even undersized) out there right now. Sorry I'm ranting now.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 12, 2023, 10:32:40 am
At the ground definitely what stood out to me was two or more players all going for the same ball and spoiling each other.
Not sure if it’s paranoia but can’t help but feel TDK does things for his highlight reel for his purported monster contract coming from Sydney. Just does not seem like he is doing his flying for balls for the team but rather for self.
Felt also that JSOS was making really silly errors. Also felt he was playing intentionally bad?
Things just don’t make sense watching the games.
The highlight for me was Charlie and Owies both stopping at an incoming footy. The lack of cohesion and understanding is ridiculous. And the minute the ball hits the deck? Nada. The the opposition just gather it up and away they go.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Micky0 on June 12, 2023, 10:34:26 am
The highlight for me was Charlie and Owies both stopping at an incoming footy. The lack of cohesion and understanding is ridiculous. And the minute the ball hits the deck? Nada. The the opposition just gather it up and away they go.
That was a shocker, definitely seemed like Benny Hill music was about to come on.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Lods on June 12, 2023, 12:09:33 pm
Carlton coach Michael Voss has backed Patrick Cripps to bounce back after the Blues' captain lowered his colours in a deflating loss to Essendon.
Cripps did not register a single effective kick with Champion Data statisticians at the MCG on Sunday night.
The superstar midfielder missed the target by foot four times from 19 disposals under attention from Bombers duo Archie Perkins and Jye Caldwell.
Voss did not make any excuses for last year's Brownlow Medal winner in the aftermath, declaring Cripps fully fit.
"He's completely fine," Voss said after the 34-point defeat.
"Sometimes you lose a bit of form and he's running through a little bit of that.
"There's a couple of players that have been in the same boat.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: WASurfer on June 12, 2023, 12:11:12 pm
Hard to find many positives outta that sh#t show!
Young has become almost Plowman like when he gets the ball. He's a liability in the backline now.
Acres' disposal skills were never elite but can't question his efforts again last night. Turns it over a bit but he put his body on the line a few times which is more than most of the rest.
Kemp has been solid and his kicking was a feature. He just needs to be left in the team now.
Remove the errors and costly misses in the first half and we should've been leading at 1/2 time. But what happens in that 20 minutes during half time where they just completely turn off?? Every week it's the same thing....one diabolical quarter of football costs us the games.
No idea where to from here unfortunately. Watching on TV I could see players arguing with each other. Crippa looks almost disinterested at times. He can't chase or tackle and is having zero impact on games now. None of our midfielders kick goals. Motlop tries hard and runs and chases....but that's about it. Jack Martin did his usual 10 minute cameo and probably should've kicked 3 goals.
The well looks pretty dry in the VFL too. Cunningham did enough to suggest he should come in next week. Hopefully Pittonet is able to get up.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Lods on June 12, 2023, 12:24:15 pm
We should pay our players like we pay our lawyers.
Break the game up into 10 minute segments. If you perform in that period you get paid for that period. We'd put a dent in some payouts to certain players....or maybe give them a reason to stay on task.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: LordLucifer on June 12, 2023, 12:26:24 pm
But, we also must weed out those responsible for the bad attitude and culture in the club, even if it sets us back in the short term. We have a decent enough list to properly compete, as we found last year, but right now it will all be just wasted unless something is done.
Spot on !!!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: LordLucifer on June 12, 2023, 12:42:39 pm
Why was Jack Martin selected to play ??
Unfit, lacks the ability to play 100 minutes & is very lazy on defensive acts.
For me, he epitomises the rubbish attitude amongst our playing list, its always conditional and on his terms.
I'm not advocating a total rebuild but the razor gang has to come out again in the off-season.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: cookie2 on June 12, 2023, 12:59:01 pm
Two major issues at the heart of our problems imo. 1. We can't kick goals. 2. We can't handle opposition pressure.
As a result we go to water and lose all confidence. I don't know what we have to do but to me it's obvious that there is little or no onfield leadership being exercised. Our morale is completely shot.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: pew2 on June 12, 2023, 01:32:52 pm
young is as weak as water but the way ball got delivered to 2mp no 1 could have stopped it. my brother said we wont beat ess 3 weeks ago that how bad we are ,and if we dont trade and recruit well we are truly F>>>>d. Dodoro done a great job at ess unlike sos who failed. draper ,martin,no 22, hobbs,caldwell , 2mp, (no parish,shiel,and 3 1st rnd selections not playing ) .
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Lods on June 12, 2023, 05:56:15 pm
Charlie Curnow said the Round 13 result lies with the playing group, after an inability to convert once again left Carlton ruing a missed opportunity against Essendon......
......“Us as a forward line and as a team, the efficiency inside forward 50 plays a role . . . and we didn’t get the job done in that area,” Curnow said.
“You come into the rooms at half time and we were doing the things we set out to do in the first quarter and at the start of the game. We were ticking a lot of boxes and felt like it was going to come if we kept putting ourselves in the right spots.
“Kicking 3.10 [to half time] obviously hurts, but the ownership is on me also. A lot of the shots were outside 50 in tough spots, and when you’re relying on those inside of shots from 0-30, it can be really difficult.”
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 12, 2023, 06:08:03 pm
To be fair RR (and Im by no means Fisher's greatest backer) he wasn't too bad in the HB role yesterday. I thought he busted his ass and took to a new role quite well. I must commend Power for giving him something different to do. The pass Jim mentions was a good one for a seemingly one sided bloke. We need to celebrate little wins I guess, The treatment of the boys in the players race after the game by Carlton Supporters (and I use the term loosely) was utterly disgusting. Of course fans are hurting, I reckon the players are hurting just as much and It was abuse that is simply not warranted.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: PaulP on June 12, 2023, 06:57:51 pm
Coaches' votes :
10 Nic Martin (ESS) 8 Peter Wright (ESS) 5 Jye Caldwell (ESS) 4 Adam Cerra (CARL) 2 Jordan Ridley (ESS) 1 Ben Hobbs (ESS)
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: rocky on June 12, 2023, 07:07:04 pm
To be fair RR (and Im by no means Fisher's greatest backer) he wasn't too bad in the HB role yesterday. I thought he busted his ass and took to a new role quite well. I must commend Power for giving him something different to do. The pass Jim mentions was a good one for a seemingly one sided bloke. We need to celebrate little wins I guess, The treatment of the boys in the players race after the game by Carlton Supporters (and I use the term loosely) was utterly disgusting. Of course fans are hurting, I reckon the players are hurting just as much and It was abuse that is simply not warranted.
Just saw the footage of that on CH7. Absolutely pathetic. No wonder there are punch-ons between supporters. As bad as the team is travelling that sort of behaviour is unacceptable. What are we filth supporters?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: 31Tommys_barber on June 12, 2023, 07:46:21 pm
The abuse was embarrassing to hear. As bad as the team is going the sort of vitriol hurled at them by these apparent “supporters “ was not on. A few dickheads have shamed us all as it was presented that they represented the fan base. While I wish they were travelling a lot better the hysterical swearing abuse doesn’t help but these guys yelling where typical heroes from 30 feet away but I’m sure gutless fan boys up close
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: madbluboy on June 12, 2023, 07:48:27 pm
It was in the MCC, may not have even been a Carlton fan.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 12, 2023, 07:50:04 pm
The abuse was embarrassing to hear. As bad as the team is going the sort of vitriol hurled at them by these apparent “supporters “ was not on. A few dickheads have shamed us all as it was presented that they represented the fan base. While I wish they were travelling a lot better the hysterical swearing abuse doesn’t help but these guys yelling where typical heroes from 30 feet away but I’m sure gutless fan boys up close
A sad day to be a Carlton Player (being on the end of that) and Carlton Member today after seeing it.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 12, 2023, 07:51:34 pm
It was in the MCC, may not have even been a Carlton fan.
Dont want to sound like a smart ass or be disrespectful but they sounded like Carlton Supporters and didn't sound like they fitted in the MCC demographic.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: madbluboy on June 12, 2023, 08:01:24 pm
Dont we to sound like a smart ass or be disrespectful but they sounded like Carlton Supporters and didn't sound like they fitted in the MCC demographic.
A lot of neutrals/casual fans go to night games in the MCC to get on the piss. I went to a Stkilda Melbourne game in the MCC about 15 years ago with a whole heap of work mates and one guy brought a mate who was a Tiger fan and a flog. He spent the whole night just ripping Melbourne to get on the nerves of most of the fans around there. Then he ripped the team after they came off the ground, the dude just wanted trouble.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: 31Tommys_barber on June 12, 2023, 08:23:08 pm
Believe it or not we do have more than our fairshare of knucklehead morons
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Thryleon on June 12, 2023, 08:52:26 pm
I dont approve of it, but I had a bit of a think about what we've done since 2012, and this season feels very much like 2012 again.
Fans have put up with a lot since then.
I've processed my recent feelings, and whilst we like to say the sanctions etc have caused our current woes, I'm most angry at the fact that currently we are largely self inflicted with decisions made over the last 10 years landing us here and given our track record, more likely to self inflict further and prolong our issues and subsequent plight.
The players look like they're just going and fans are going to take out their frustration on them. Ive been waiting weeks for an on field response and haven't seen what im after yet.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: LoveNavy on June 12, 2023, 09:03:35 pm
The booing as players exit the ground is disgraceful. As adults we should have the capacity to manage strong emotions, particularly in public.
I just saw footage on 7 news. It showed a group of blokes fighting. The report was about "Carlton fans turning on each other" Evidently the fight was at the end of the game and is being investigated by Police.
Seriously. I'm embarrassed to be a supporter atm😳
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 12, 2023, 10:10:04 pm
A lot of neutrals/casual fans go to night games in the MCC to get on the piss. I went to a Stkilda Melbourne game in the MCC about 15 years ago with a whole heap of work mates and one guy brought a mate who was a Tiger fan and a flog. He spent the whole night just ripping Melbourne to get on the nerves of most of the fans around there. Then he ripped the team after they came off the ground, the dude just wanted trouble.
I know mate but I'll guess with 99% surety they we Blues fans. I'd guess if they were neutrals, they would have got more of a reaction from the players and the official walking with the players. Also, I'd imagine if they were neutrals, it will come out somewhere. In any case, abhorrent behaviour from footy fans.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: pinot on June 12, 2023, 11:19:08 pm
This club has heartbroken us pretty badly this year. Don't care what supporters do it's their right to voice their discontent in any manner they wish. They went to the game and their hearts broken into pieces... they will support the club no matter what but what is the club doing for them? What they need to do is refund money to members that have attended games this year.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: 31Tommys_barber on June 13, 2023, 02:44:53 pm
This club has heartbroken us pretty badly this year. Don't care what supporters do it's their right to voice their discontent in any manner they wish. They went to the game and their hearts broken into pieces... they will support the club no matter what but what is the club doing for them? What they need to do is refund money to members that have attended games this year.
You do realise it’s a game a sport a recreation a pastime to say that the club owes you a refund is ridiculous. Don’t buy a ticket if you don’t want to lose because every match is 50/50
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: PaulP on June 13, 2023, 02:51:24 pm
You do realise it’s a game a sport a recreation a pastime to say that the club owes you a refund is ridiculous. Don’t buy a ticket if you don’t want to lose because every match is 50/50
Yes, I'm not sure a membership or a game ticket buys you the right to be abusive. Don't buy a ticket, don't buy a membership, and go and support another team. Redefining game day and the game pitch as a place of work is a legitimate and necessary step IMO. Try carrying on like that at any other place of work and see how far you get.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: rocky on June 13, 2023, 03:13:32 pm
McKay admitted players "definitely" hear and take in the abuse coming their way.
"I understand it's a minority of supporters; a lot of our fans have been fantastic throughout this whole year and the passion and energy they bring to games," McKay, who will play his 100th game this weekend, said on Tuesday.
"I think the minority in situations like that it's more disappointing for kids and families.
"You want to create an environment that's safe; everyone likes to come to the footy so seeing the minority probably do that is disappointing.
"We want to create games at Carlton that everyone feels comfortable and safe coming to so I want to thank the majority for doing that, but it's disappointing that a few jeopardise that."
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: ratlice on June 13, 2023, 03:29:07 pm
At the 9min mark of the 2nd, Charlie had 0.4, Martin 1.2, Owies had 0.1. They were all gettable, regulation shots for fwds. Convert a few of those and we go into half time with an ok lead. Not Saying the 7 to 2 goal 3rd qtr wouldnt have happened but it may have looked totally different. Those misses absolutely deflate us every time.
Also gives the opposition another attacking opportunity. 16 for the game!!!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: pew2 on June 13, 2023, 04:22:39 pm
dont care about missed goals ,what we should care about is the first 20 mins of 3rd Q,every player should be made to watch it 3 times and coaches to .Another game on the line and we FAIL.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 13, 2023, 04:48:13 pm
This club has heartbroken us pretty badly this year. Don't care what supporters do it's their right to voice their discontent in any manner they wish. They went to the game and their hearts broken into pieces... they will support the club no matter what but what is the club doing for them? What they need to do is refund money to members that have attended games this year.
No Pinot, you are 1000% wrong, sorry mate. You dont go to the football to behave like an animal no matter how upset you get. If you are too angry, get up and leave, it doesn't give you the right to hurl abuse at anyone.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Professer E on June 13, 2023, 05:49:06 pm
I agree with what you're saying but there's a lot of very, very committed supporters out there and they're hurting. Really hurting. So if they say a few nasty things, I get it.
What I don't get is being lectured by the likes of supporters of other clubs e.g. Andrew Gaze on supporter behaviour. As the unofficial mouthpiece for a club with clear and obvious issue regarding racism, blokes like that can go forth and multiply IMO.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: WASurfer on June 13, 2023, 06:14:36 pm
Andrew Gaze is without a doubt THE unfunniest bloke on the THE unfunniest footy show on TV.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 13, 2023, 06:15:58 pm
would probably know a bit about what it's like on the other side of the fence though.
He has a bit of white line fever when he coached at senior level basketball (Syd Kings)and Junior rep ball(Melbourne)...went ballistic at his players , didnt worry about the ages either, very colourful language. Wouldnt have handled coaching Carlton Football club very well on that basis, would have had a meltdown by now....
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: PaulP on June 13, 2023, 07:03:34 pm
The problem with supporters having a sense of entitlement based on rage / dissatisfaction is that it's a slippery slope from yelling abuse to something more drastic, as we've witnessed over the years in South America. Those supporters who go shooting up soccer stadiums are also "hurting".
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Thryleon on June 13, 2023, 07:26:05 pm
Im not sure how relevant the soccer is here when comparing to this scenes. It's well known that soccer echo's political allegiances and a lot of money and threats change hands in those environments. The ultras are guns for hire.
Those escalations are usually organised mob hits not fans having a punch on over a red card.
Thats the cover story.
Regarding our snowflakes, they put in third quarters like what we saw against essendon some unhinged fans will go ballistic. That's the good with the bad. If you don't like it, play for a club with no fans.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 13, 2023, 07:53:53 pm
I agree with what you're saying but there's a lot of very, very committed supporters out there and they're hurting. Really hurting. So if they say a few nasty things, I get it.
I don't get it one bit. I thought we Carlton Supporters were classier than that, clearly not.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: PaulP on June 13, 2023, 08:20:35 pm
Im not sure how relevant the soccer is here when comparing to this scenes. It's well known that soccer echo's political allegiances and a lot of money and threats change hands in those environments. The ultras are guns for hire.
Those escalations are usually organised mob hits not fans having a punch on over a red card.
Thats the cover story.
Regarding our snowflakes, they put in third quarters like what we saw against essendon some unhinged fans will go ballistic. That's the good with the bad. If you don't like it, play for a club with no fans.
I was referring to violence, abuse and intimidation directed towards players and officials, as opposed to issues between supporter groups.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Baggers on June 13, 2023, 08:23:35 pm
Abuse of players at the ground by supporters is just not on. Unacceptable. I know it's a loud minority but they should pull their heads in. Players shouldn't have to put up with this and be subjected to such abuse. I bet no-one is hurting more than the players, coaches, staff and so on.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: deepbluesee on June 13, 2023, 08:45:35 pm
Anyone who uses the word 'youse' lacks any credibility and should not be listened to.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 13, 2023, 09:32:17 pm
You do realise it’s a game a sport a recreation a pastime to say that the club owes you a refund is ridiculous. Don’t buy a ticket if you don’t want to lose because every match is 50/50
Maybe for you - but people in general dedicate their lives to the "club" they wish to belong. Players get paid enough - if they continue to put in disheartening efforts then members should demand a refund.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: LoveNavy on June 13, 2023, 10:01:15 pm
Anyone who uses the word 'youse' lacks any credibility and should not be listened to.
🤣 You're quite right. That's bugs me too. As does the phrase "how are we?" But I digress. Thanks for the laugh!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: madbluboy on June 14, 2023, 05:31:07 am
But from a statistical point of view, Hoyne isn’t convinced Essendon is a finals-bound team in 2023.
Scott’s men are coming off a 34-point win over Carlton, but Hoyne has a number of fears from that performance on the Bombers’ style.
“It’s a great story, 8-5, they’re probably every chance to play finals now.. but the reality is, the way they’re playing at the moment, history will say it’s far from a sustainable brand of footy on the weekend,” he began.
“Based on accuracy, they should have lost that game by a goal, 85-79, if Carlton had kicked to expectation. Essendon giving up 85 points to a team that hasn’t been able to score for multiple weeks now is a concern.
“Carlton haven’t been able to move the footy for the last seven or eight weeks of the season, the third-worst ball movement team in the competition in terms of going one end of the ground to the other.
“They went from defensive 50 to inside 50 39 per cent of the time (against Essendon). That’s Carlton's best ball movement game of the season.
“28 shots to 23 shots for Carlton on the weekend, they win contested possession by 17, Essendon only picked off Carlton in that midfield zone of the ground 29 times, compare that to Melbourne’s 50 against Collingwood on the weekend.”
He added: “We talk about defensive profiles being the ones that hold up, only West Coats has conceded more inside 50s than what Essendon has this year and no team has won the ball back less in their forward half of the ground than what Essendon has this year.”
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 14, 2023, 07:34:24 am
🤣 You're quite right. That's bugs me too. As does the phrase "how are we?" But I digress. Thanks for the laugh!
Last one then back on topic, the word that annoys me most at the moment and I reckon it's the most used word in the English language these days, Perspective. I find myself using it sometimes but for some reason, it drives me nuts.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: ratlice on June 14, 2023, 10:23:17 am
Abuse of players at the ground by supporters is just not on. Unacceptable. I know it's a loud minority but they should pull their heads in. Players shouldn't have to put up with this and be subjected to such abuse. I bet no-one is hurting more than the players, coaches, staff and so on.
Maybe they should all wear head phones like Mackay!!! Wait a minute are we talking about grown men here or school kids? They should all grow a set!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 13 2023 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs Essendon
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 14, 2023, 12:23:13 pm