Princes Park => Robert Heatley Stand => Topic started by: crashlander on May 17, 2024, 07:21:12 pm
Title: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: crashlander on May 17, 2024, 07:21:12 pm
Not an easy game, with Gold Coast flogging Geelong by 10 goals and us having half our team in the stands.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: crashlander on May 17, 2024, 10:30:40 pm
Looking pretty ordinary for next week. Do we have anyone else left to put in?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: Mantis on May 18, 2024, 01:45:01 am
Another loss so move on. Let us hope it isn’t more than 5 goals. Do they need me to hit the field? I am more than willing and determined. Maybe not so able. I will give my very best effort.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: laj on May 18, 2024, 05:16:44 pm
Next week is a must. Our next 3 games after this are against Port in Adelaide, Essendon, Bye, then Geelong. 8 out of the 9 games from GWS on are/were brutal. Gets easier after that but we want to do well the next few weeks.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 18, 2024, 05:21:07 pm
Season starts again. Bring the mouth guards to training, whoever doesn't want to crack in v the Suns can p!55 off. NO MORE PASSENGERS
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: townsendcalling on May 18, 2024, 07:32:10 pm
I hope those who keep pushing Ashton Moir for promotion needed to have a look at today's game. Billy Wilson would be way ahead of him.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: crashlander on May 18, 2024, 09:01:53 pm
Indeed. Moir does some nice things, but not enough. Between 6 to 10 possessions per game.
Binns, on the other hand, must play next week.
The argument will be that the likes of Durdin struggle to get 6-10 possessions a game and dont do much with them. Durdin had 3 possessions with one effective....saying all that I wouldnt be gifting Moir a game either unless he is knocking down the door. Binns on the other hand has been knocking loud and deserves a run of games imho.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 19, 2024, 03:53:45 pm
Be handy if we could get Motlop and Saad back this week. In Saad Motlop Cowan Binns Wilson Out Williams Durdin Fantasia Marchbank O Hollands Chuck Binns on Ollie's wing, Wilson the sub Obviously if Weiters doesnt get up, bring Young in for him. Those ins could not possibly do any worse than what those I would drop dished up.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: DJC on May 19, 2024, 05:14:23 pm
Be handy if we could get Motlop and Saad back this week. In Saad Motlop Cowan Binns Wilson Out Williams Durdin Fantasia Marchbank O Hollands Chuck Binns on Ollie's wing, Wilson the sub Obviously if Weiters doesnt get up, bring Young in for him. Those ins could not possibly do any worse than what those I would drop dished up.
Jack Silvagni and Vossy both hinted that we might get two players back this week ... and we should know whether Weiters will come up by Tuesday.
I'd be leaving Williams in the 22 purely on the strength of that tackle :)
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: Professer E on May 19, 2024, 05:47:05 pm
No effing way. Three years passenger. No more.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 19, 2024, 06:00:19 pm
Be handy if we could get Motlop and Saad back this week. In Saad Motlop Cowan Binns Wilson Out Williams Durdin Fantasia Marchbank O Hollands Chuck Binns on Ollie's wing, Wilson the sub Obviously if Weiters doesnt get up, bring Young in for him. Those ins could not possibly do any worse than what those I would drop dished up.
Think Voss said he expects Motlop and Saad back this week, normally I would want Motlop to have a game in the VFL but given the stakes are getting a bit higher Id play both of them first up from a spell.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 19, 2024, 06:02:19 pm
Agree...Id probably reward Cowan after he gave us lift in the VFL when moved into the middle, problem with Williams is where do you play him and finding a soft opponent who wont hurt you too much if he gets off the leash.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: pinot on May 19, 2024, 07:49:43 pm
Saad, Motlop and hopefully Fogarty coming into the team will help. Dropping this game is not an option - either is two rucks.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: LP on May 19, 2024, 10:38:10 pm
Saad, Motlop and hopefully Fogarty coming into the team will help. Dropping this game is not an option - either is two rucks.
TDK is more aerobic and faster across the ground than the bulk of the oppositions rucks and many of the opposition KPPs, he doesn't decrease either our pace or our aerobic capacity, he actually stretches opposition capabilities by increasing our total tall mobility.
If there is a run and carry problem, or chasing tackling issue, it's not from having our two rucks playing. A huge problem Friday night was that our SFs gave us stuff all tackles, Fantasia was tops with 3, Owies and Durdin just 1 a piece. How can it be that opposition score so heavily from turnovers on our HFF yet three SF players have just 6 tackles between them? Kennedy had more than them combined, and our next best was BigH!
It's untenable that you have three players basically not contributing, something is drastically wrong with our SF setup, and Fogarty isn't that much better than them but he's an arm and a leg ahead of what's currently on offer.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: LP on May 19, 2024, 10:56:25 pm
Did our MC overreact to some misfortunes? We had some close losses but they were really misfortunes or bad officiating that cost us more than once while stats continued to look pretty good in most areas. Now in the space of just a couple of weeks, a few tweaks and all the numbers have slide to the point last Friday we had almost no winnings areas.
The tweaks haven't helped they may have actually hurt.
We had a few discussions here a couple of weeks back, when Kennedy was made sub, that we seemed to be making some odd decisions relating to the MC and match day tactics. In effect we seemed to have willingly disrupted a winning formula to try and patch underperforming areas of the team, and in doing so it feels like we ended up pulling down the whole house. The part that was good is now waning under the strain of trying to bridge gaps, and we are left with almost no winning areas at all.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 19, 2024, 10:57:56 pm
Yes because he gets most minutes in there doesn't make him the better ruck imo. TDK is a ruck not a forward just like H is a forward not a ruck and Young is a back not a ruck.
TDK is being played out of position. No matter who the ruck is (despite TDK being the superior ruck) todays game does not suit two rucks - we have lost past 80% of games with two rucks. Not sure how much more blatant it can get.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: DJC on May 19, 2024, 11:35:02 pm
Did our MC overreact to some misfortunes? We had some close losses but they were really misfortunes or bad officiating that cost us more than once while stats continued to look pretty good in most areas. Now in the space of just a couple of weeks, a few tweaks and all the numbers have slide to the point last Friday we had almost no winnings areas.
The tweaks haven't helped they may have actually hurt.
We had a few discussions here a couple of weeks back, when Kennedy was made sub, that we seemed to be making some odd decisions relating to the MC and match day tactics. In effect we seemed to have willingly disrupted a winning formula to try and patch underperforming areas of the team, and in doing so it feels like we ended up pulling down the whole house. The part that was good is now waning under the strain of trying to bridge gaps, and we are left with almost no winning areas at all.
Voss explained that Kennedy and Hewett being the sub is part of our strategy to manage player workload.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: LP on May 20, 2024, 08:13:00 am
Voss explained that Kennedy and Hewett being the sub is part of our strategy to manage player workload.
So the strategy is wrong, that's still an MC issue isn't it?
If it's not the MC, then who or what is it?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: Baggers on May 20, 2024, 10:13:22 am
As painful as it was, I just watched the Fluffy Ducks and Go Dees games again. Similar errors/worrries in each game: * Failed/limp tackles. * After a fast start and opponents make changes to address our start, we do not make changes. * Ordinary mid/forward connection. * With the exception of Owies, so little from small forwards. * Not getting enough from Charles' abilities beyond FF. * Cruelled by injuries to key personnel. ...and so on.
To beat GCS: (IMHO) * Drop non-hackers/contributors - Durdin, Fantasia, O Hollands. * Reward consistent good form from players in the Magoos, specifically - Binns, Cowan. Binns must shake his head and wonder what is up, especially when he sees how little the above three are providing. Commit and invest in the kid with consistent games. * Tackling: Too many blokes failing to commit to the tackle of an opponent. Too timid. Between the lugholes. The failure of some to commit the body to the tackle is embarrassing. Poor intent. * Safe. To beat GCS we need boldness... run, carry. Can't be terrified to make a mistake against this mob. * Coaching: FFS do something when the opposition is countering well our plan. Imagination. We've got blokes who have taken the field in the past two weeks who are quick, but this ability is not being utilized. Cincotta is one of the quickest blokes at the club, having him as a lockdown defender only is a waste. Fear/safe coaching. He and Boyd need more license to take the game on... Charles also, the bloke is uncanny, let him into the midfield at times. Develop more blokes who can run through the midfield - Cowan is another bloke who can be be given moments there. Okay, Williams didn't make it as a midfielder, but persisting with him as a high forward and going through the midfield at times is worth trying. Expand the dimensions of our midfield, keep the GCSs guessing. * Run with: Chugga seems to be our only run with and does a good job unless his opponent is quick... then he's too slow. Cincotta? Cowan? Williams? Let's play more blokes to their strengths. *Above the shoulders: Where's the boldness, run, hunting, hunger for the contest, intense tackling pressure, confidence, mongrel??? * Changes: IN: Binns, Cowan, Motlop, Saad. Out: Durdin, Fantasia, O Hollands, Carroll. (If Weiters doesn't come up, Young in). Give Jack M more time to get his calves 100% right.
If you keep doing what you've always done you'll keep getting what you've always got. Throw out the stubbornness and initiate flexibility. Learn that lesson from Fluffy Ducks/John Longmire.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: Adelaideblue on May 20, 2024, 10:24:40 am
Great assessment & suggestions Baggers. Copy needs to go to CFC coaches and AFL media
cheers Ab
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: RiverRat on May 20, 2024, 12:57:39 pm
Williams didn't make it as a midfielder, but persisting with him as a high forward and going through the midfield at times is worth trying.
A couple of open-field tackles that Williams stuck in the forward line suggest that he has much more to offer in that role than either Durdin or Fantasia or both.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: madbluboy on May 20, 2024, 01:07:37 pm
A couple of open-field tackles that Williams stuck in the forward line suggest that he has much more to offer in that role than either Durdin or Fantasia or both.
He was terrible for much of the game but his last quarter was OK.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: LP on May 20, 2024, 01:17:50 pm
He was terrible for much of the game but his last quarter was OK.
Williams offered way more effort, aggression and pressure than some of the others for most of the game, but when you have two or three around you offering nada you can be made look like a goose.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: madbluboy on May 20, 2024, 01:26:26 pm
Williams offered way more effort, aggression and pressure than some of the others for most of the game, but when you have two or three around you offering nada you can be made look like a goose.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: LP on May 20, 2024, 01:47:43 pm
We've talked through the foibles of just relying on the stats before, the AFL definition of things like pressure act or contest as used by Champion Data are so rubbery you often just have to be within 3 or 4 metres of the ball carrier. That's the main reason one rating system can give a player BoG while another often suggests they were mediocre.
So I'm happy to stick with my earlier assessment.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 20, 2024, 01:48:03 pm
Problem with all those players is not what they are doing which is minimal, its more what the opposition player is doing who plays on them. eg You stick Williams forward then the opposition coach is going to run his best rebounders off him, Flanders had 37 touches last week playing from half back and even running forward, if I'm Hardwick I know who I am sending to play on Williams this week....
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: pew2 on May 20, 2024, 03:37:08 pm
until we stop this long bomb game style either from fullback or into F 50 entry we are sitting ducks ,voss and Co need to change especially our f50 entries lower the eyes
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: kruddler on May 20, 2024, 04:25:50 pm
For a team that has consistently lacked run and effort lately, i'm not sure why people feel the need to drop Ollie Hollands.
He gives 100%, 100% of the time. He is not the problem.
If we start dropping people based on output, how far down our team do we get before we get to Ollie Hollands.....and how far down are VFL team to do we get before we find a replacement. I'll save the effort. There is nothing better below. Ollie stays.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 20, 2024, 05:02:01 pm
For a team that has consistently lacked run and effort lately, i'm not sure why people feel the need to drop Ollie Hollands.
He gives 100%, 100% of the time. He is not the problem.
If we start dropping people based on output, how far down our team do we get before we get to Ollie Hollands.....and how far down are VFL team to do we get before we find a replacement. I'll save the effort. There is nothing better below. Ollie stays.
I agree there is nothing better to bring in, Ollie's attacking game is ok, Im probably more concerned about his defensive side and opponents getting off the leash but he is still a newbie with upside so that should improve. Id even be trying him as a small forward and seeing if he can give us something more than the present occupants of those positions.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: tonyo on May 20, 2024, 05:02:39 pm
For a team that has consistently lacked run and effort lately, i'm not sure why people feel the need to drop Ollie Hollands.
He gives 100%, 100% of the time. He is not the problem.
If we start dropping people based on output, how far down our team do we get before we get to Ollie Hollands.....and how far down are VFL team to do we get before we find a replacement. I'll save the effort. There is nothing better below. Ollie stays.
I saw one part where he was 'chasing' Warner down the wing, and he was truly in second gear at best.
That's the problem with so many of the team atm - not bad when they've got the ball, but almost disinterested when they don't.........
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: kruddler on May 20, 2024, 05:07:24 pm
I saw one part where he was 'chasing' Warner down the wing, and he was truly in second gear at best.
That's the problem with so many of the team atm - not bad when they've got the ball, but almost disinterested when they don't.........
Without knowing the incident you are talking about i can't really comment too much.
However, i do know that Hollands (with Walsh and Cottrell) do more km's a match than everyone else in the team. Same group do more 'repeat sprints' than anyone else as well. So its definitely possible that that what you witnessed could've come after some big runs/sprints that took a bit of the sting out of his legs and did not have a chance to recover.
Had you pointed the same out about just about anyone else, then more than likely it would be nothing more than effort. With Hollands though, it could be more about exhaustion more than effort.
Perhaps he needs to be smarter with his running and running patterns so he does not fall in a hole when we need him, not sure.
I just know that i'd be pointing the finger at plenty of others before i got to him.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: LP on May 20, 2024, 05:11:37 pm
However, i do know that Hollands (with Walsh and Cottrell) do more km's a match than everyone else in the team.
For me the only thing we need Ollie to polish up on is his disposal, making quicker decisions so he is not getting pegged with the footy, and hitting more targets. Even so his DE% isn't too bad, but once or twice a game he has a shocker that costs us on the turnover.
I'd love to see some Diesel sessions with some of our blokes to get the handball crisp and decisive.
I won't mentioned who my preferred out would be, it seems to be an emotional issue for some.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: pertz on May 20, 2024, 05:28:49 pm
From the SEN Website re Friday's game. Nothing new here.... What they got wrong Carlton’s midfield is too slow Sydney isn’t the first team to exploit Carlton when they play all of Cripps, Kennedy and Hewett, but it was particularly evident on Friday night. The Swans did as they pleased at centre bounces and when the ball went their way, they were off to the races. Carlton clearly noticed the issue, trying Corey Durdin on-ball at stages, but that’s not the answer either. The Blues need more dynamic players in the middle and Elijah Hollands is surely the one to receive a few opportunities in Adam Cerra’s absence. Too many forwards don’t touch the footy Corey Durdin and Orazio Fantasia both played full games of footy on Thursday night for a combined 10 disposals, four tackles and 0.1. Tom De Koning also spent 80 per cent of the game forward as Marc Pittonet assumes full control of the ruck – De Koning had six disposals, one mark and didn’t hit the scoreboard. Carlton needs to revamp their forward mix and needs desperately to hope Lachie Fogarty and Jesse Motlop are available to return this weekend. The Blues also should go back to one ruckman and try to get their forward-half pressure game back, given it has dropped away significantly. Nic Negrepontis
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: shawny on May 20, 2024, 05:47:25 pm
For a team that has consistently lacked run and effort lately, i'm not sure why people feel the need to drop Ollie Hollands.
He gives 100%, 100% of the time. He is not the problem.
If we start dropping people based on output, how far down our team do we get before we get to Ollie Hollands.....and how far down are VFL team to do we get before we find a replacement. I'll save the effort. There is nothing better below. Ollie stays.
Agree. Ollie is not a problem and while he is not perfect im far more concerned at the lack of defensive effort from the reigning coleman medalist.
He is lazy selfish and needs to improve that side of his game imo.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 20, 2024, 06:06:55 pm
Agree. Ollie is not a problem and while he is not perfect im far more concerned at the lack of defensive effort from the reigning coleman medalist.
He is lazy selfish and needs to improve that side of his game imo.
Agree...been a bit of video footage on TV regarding his lack of second efforts and he needs to improve that part of his game.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: Professer E on May 20, 2024, 06:19:40 pm
De Konig is another who seems to escape criticism. When is the potential going to actually become something tangible? Getting tired of waiting.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: pinot on May 20, 2024, 06:30:09 pm
We got beaten in the middle - they had two taggers basically - Rowbottom was on a tackling warpath and Jordan kept holding onto Walsh restricting him from hunting the ball. We didn't reciprocate with our own tagger(s) - Pitto had zero tackles and Grundy had a party on him. I understand we are trying to implement our own style but clubs have figured us out and taggers are now back in vogue.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 20, 2024, 09:36:16 pm
We got beaten in the middle - they had two taggers basically - Rowbottom was on a tackling warpath and Jordan kept holding onto Walsh restricting him from hunting the ball. We didn't reciprocate with our own tagger(s) - Pitto had zero tackles and Grundy had a party on him. I understand we are trying to implement our own style but clubs have figured us out and taggers are now back in vogue.
I agree, Hewett is probably our main run with player and Kennedy can do the job as well as provide some drive but both Warner and Heeney have them for pace and once goalside with a break on our players they were not going to be caught. The player we miss in the middle like I said before is Cerra who has a bit more toe and a bit more class and would have been a better match for Warner in particular and would have required both those Swans mids to pay attention to rather than being fully offensive players. When we have Cripps, Walsh, Kennedy and Hewett in the middle we can look slow on the chase as a few news articles have suggested, I'd like to see E. Hollands spend a bit more time in the middle and maybe do what a few other teams do and throw the odd different player in there..
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: LP on May 21, 2024, 08:25:10 am
I think we lost something when Ed retired and we pigeon holed Hewett into being our tagger, Hewett was more value when he wasn't shadowing opposition.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: Baggers on May 21, 2024, 08:46:32 am
For a team that has consistently lacked run and effort lately, i'm not sure why people feel the need to drop Ollie Hollands.
He gives 100%, 100% of the time. He is not the problem.
If we start dropping people based on output, how far down our team do we get before we get to Ollie Hollands.....and how far down are VFL team to do we get before we find a replacement. I'll save the effort. There is nothing better below. Ollie stays.
Criticism of Ollie is not about his tireless effort. He runs and runs and runs... but not enough comes from all that effort. Acres runs and runs all day as well, with considerable impact in games.
Ollie needs, like many others, to commit his body to tackling, his tackling efforts have been and are a liability... easily broken. The only reason I recommend dropping Ollie to the Magoos is so he can learn to add other strings to his bow.
I understand the sentimentality of giving senior games to such a terrific kid with considerable running ability... but with cold objectivity it's obvious he needs a chance to develop more confidence in other areas of his game as he just isn't delivering hurt to the opposition with his disposals.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: Professer E on May 21, 2024, 09:32:18 am
Ollie did ok in the first half vs the dees the week prior though
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: LP on May 21, 2024, 10:28:44 am
Criticism of Ollie is not about his tireless effort. He runs and runs and runs... but not enough comes from all that effort. Acres runs and runs all day as well, with considerable impact in games.
Ollie needs, like many others, to commit his body to tackling, his tackling efforts have been and are a liability... easily broken. The only reason I recommend dropping Ollie to the Magoos is so he can learn to add other strings to his bow.
The problem that Ollie and others like him have is the focus on weaknesses that the AFL brings, if you hesitate opponents see it and forever more know, they know where to stand and what to say to put doubts in your head, it's the sporting equivalent of a game of chicken and they know you've blinked before.
All AFL players have to continually improve their shortcomings, expect every opponent to know them, and if there is no improvement expect those deficits to be amplified week in week out.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: Baggers on May 21, 2024, 10:52:05 am
Ollie did ok in the first half vs the dees the week prior though
Yep, when we were in charge of the game... but when the pressure came, our system was countered, he (and some others), wilted, failed to step up, failed when the need arrived to grit teeth and dig deep and get back to basics, especially sticking tackles and hurting for your team mate.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: Thryleon on May 21, 2024, 01:37:54 pm
Its a symptom not a cause. He's working through bits and pieces and what we are seeing is a young talented player being out competed by seasoned pros. Wait until Harley Reid comes back to the field.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: Lods on May 21, 2024, 03:10:57 pm
I don't think Harley is coming back ;D That horse has bolted. He's leaving the very best in his wake. That's not a player who will suffer second year blues...unless they come at him with a tank.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: Thryleon on May 21, 2024, 04:55:09 pm
^^ Hes already needed a spell in his first year. Wait until he's playing every week with a couple of players hanging off him.
It may even happen this year.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: Lods on May 21, 2024, 05:37:13 pm
Pitto out https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/1560316/injury-news-tests-for-five-blues-pittonet-to-miss
@ Thry. I'll respond in the season AFL thread-They won't stop him.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 21, 2024, 06:03:55 pm
It wouldn’t be a week without an injury now would it?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: Baggers on May 21, 2024, 06:38:09 pm
I don't think Harley is coming back ;D That horse has bolted. He's leaving the very best in his wake. That's not a player who will suffer second year blues...unless they come at him with a tank.
What a player he is and will become. I truly hope he plays his whole career at West Coast, if I were them I'd thow the keys to the city at him, literally. Give him a 15 year contract now at a $1M a year.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: kruddler on May 21, 2024, 07:05:37 pm
Pitto out https://www.carltonfc.com.au/news/1560316/injury-news-tests-for-five-blues-pittonet-to-miss
I expected to see an injured ruck out this week. Was not expecting it to be Pitto. Wonder with the injury cloud over Weiters (and TDK) they decide to bring in Young.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: Baggers on May 21, 2024, 07:52:52 pm
Do we know that as a fact, or another social media rumour?
Honestly, does it matter? He either played poor because he is injured. Or He played poor because he is $h!t.
I'm hoping he is injured.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: pinot on May 21, 2024, 08:32:52 pm
It will be nice to see a ruck not pretending to be a key forward.
Moltop hasnt had a competitive game for almost a year don't think the club should play him.
Saad and Fogarty straight in.
Durdin and Marchbank both unimpressive.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: Lods on May 21, 2024, 09:18:21 pm
I asked the AI if we would win...looks like we will 95-76 :D
Quote
Based on the latest predictions and betting odds, Carlton is favored to win against Gold Coast in their upcoming AFL Round 11 match. The game is scheduled for Saturday, May 25, 2024, at Marvel Stadium. The predictive analytics model from Stats Insider gives Carlton a 76% chance of victory, with a predicted final score of 95-76 in favor of Carlton1. This prediction is based on 10,000 game simulations and takes into account each team’s average score.
Remember, while predictions can provide insights, the outcome of any sports match can never be guaranteed. It should be an exciting game to watch! 🏉
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: townsendcalling on May 21, 2024, 09:57:31 pm
Sportsbet Carlton $1.41 GCS $2.92 What do they know that we don't?????
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: Thryleon on May 21, 2024, 10:00:00 pm
Sportsbet Carlton $1.41 GCS $2.92 What do they know that we don't?????
only thing that might work in our favour is that the Suns might be gassed after training in the heat. I'm tipping against us this week even if we are favourites. We aren't running out games well and I don't see any indication that this will improve this week.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: Baggers on May 22, 2024, 07:33:32 am
Very confident that this group will not put in an effort like last week. Fully expect a much, much improved effort. I'll be there cheering on the boys.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: WASurfer on May 23, 2024, 01:18:08 pm
For mine....Motlop, Fogarty and Saad all in if fit. There's not much else left. Out goes Fantasia, Cincotta and Durdin.
Then a replacement for Pitto. Do we bring in Young to do some rucking or just go with Harry as backup and bring in someone else? There's not too many left in the VFL that I can think of to come in so maybe Cincotta stays in and Williams plays a bit more in the middle/forward?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: Adelaideblue on May 23, 2024, 02:38:04 pm
For years we have needed a player able to lock down the small clever forwards. Would have thought that Cincotta's performance over the last couple of games has been quite promising. Particularly his work on Demon's Pickett. Hope he retains his place, as we face Power and Willie Rioli five days later. Will be great to have Motlop back, but agree with those suggesting after at least one VFL game. Fingers crossed that Binns gets the nod this week as reward for consistent performances.
AB
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: LP on May 23, 2024, 04:20:53 pm
Then a replacement for Pitto. Do we bring in Young to do some rucking or just go with Harry as backup and bring in someone else? There's not too many left in the VFL that I can think of to come in so maybe Cincotta stays in and Williams plays a bit more in the middle/forward?
Will be interesting if the rumours are true about TDK injured.
Is Weiters really a chance, would you risk doing a Munster and turning a slight tear into a season ending injury?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: WASurfer on May 23, 2024, 06:11:41 pm
LP....if Weitering misses and Young comes in, that'll be Young and Marchbank as our key defenders.....Lukosius and King will have a field day. If we drop this game, with Port next week in Adelaide, we're quickly losing touch with the pack.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: frostydog on May 23, 2024, 06:26:08 pm
Solid Ins, Cowan should never have been dropped. Marchbank managed is hilarious, actually he is taking the piss. Do the right thing Marchy and hang em up now.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: blueday on May 23, 2024, 06:42:08 pm
How has Fantasia kept his spot? What on earth is going on!!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: kruddler on May 23, 2024, 06:42:29 pm
Marchbank managed after 1 game back. No surprises there!
We can all laugh and joke, but it is the right thing to do....for a couple of reasons.
1. Who does he play on? Is there a matchup for him? No.....so why play him? 2. We need to be smarter with our player managing after coming back from injuries. Look at all the 're-injuring' we've had lately. Cerra, Williams....a couple others....have injured themselves in the 2nd game back....or 3rd game back. Ease them back into it and you'll have them available longer.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: townsendcalling on May 23, 2024, 06:47:16 pm
Obviously there is a new role for either Cincotta or Boyd otherwise we have 8 defenders
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: madbluboy on May 23, 2024, 06:48:11 pm
We can all laugh and joke, but it is the right thing to do....for a couple of reasons.
1. Who does he play on? Is there a matchup for him? No.....so why play him? 2. We need to be smarter with our player managing after coming back from injuries. Look at all the 're-injuring' we've had lately. Cerra, Williams....a couple others....have injured themselves in the 2nd game back....or 3rd game back. Ease them back into it and you'll have them available longer.
There is another explanation ... but I'll leave that alone :)
I think that we would prefer to "manage" more players more often but we just haven't had the soldiers to make that possible.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: Baggers on May 23, 2024, 06:51:39 pm
How has Fantasia kept his spot? What on earth is going on!!
:-X Durdin gets the flick and Fantasia keeps his spot :-X
No Motlop.
Marchbank managed after 2 games, 1 in the Magoos and 1 at senior level. Someone is ripping the p155 out of us. Perhaps the truth would have had the media all over our fitness dept., again, for all the wrong reasons.
Anyway, an improved side.
No way am I even going to speculate who the sub will be.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: madbluboy on May 23, 2024, 06:57:09 pm
:-X Durdin gets the flick and Fantasia keeps his spot :-X
No Motlop.
Marchbank managed after 2 games, 1 in the Magoos and 1 at senior level. Someone is ripping the p155 out of us. Perhaps the truth would have had the media all over our fitness dept., again, for all the wrong reasons.
Anyway, an improved side.
No way am I even going to speculate who the sub will be.
Take your pick....
Interchange:
Jordan Boyd
Jack Carroll
Alex Cincotta
Lachie Fogarty
George Hewett
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: DJC on May 23, 2024, 06:59:16 pm
Yes was huge in our comeback. I know it was only 2s, but has pace and grit.
Should not have lost his place in the 1s in the first place.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: Professer E on May 23, 2024, 08:07:45 pm
Damn straight. Plays like he gives a $#@!.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: pinot on May 23, 2024, 08:41:23 pm
Cowan is looking much better this year than last - Doull played 100 games in reserves before being a mainstay. Just saying.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: pinot on May 23, 2024, 08:42:44 pm
Hopefully Marchbank's "Manage" is to manage him out of the club.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: crashlander on May 23, 2024, 08:55:27 pm
Our line-up:
B: [42] Adam Saad, [23] Jacob Weitering, [2] Lachlan Cowan HB: [17] Brodie Kemp, [11] Mitch McGovern, [24] Nic Newman C: [4] Oliver Hollands, [9] Patrick Cripps, [13] Blake Acres HF: [6] Zac Williams, [10] Harry McKay, [20] Elijah Hollands F: [14] Orazio Fantasia, [30] Charlie Curnow, [44] Matthew Owies R: [12] Tom De Koning, [18] Sam Walsh, [7] Matthew Kennedy Int: [37] Jordan Boyd, [29] George Hewett, [39] Alex Cincotta, [8] Lachie Fogarty, [16] Jack Carroll
Em: [19] Corey Durdin, [33] Lewis Young, [25] Jaxon Binns
In: Adam Saad, Lachlan Cowan, Lachie Fogarty Out: Corey Durdin (Omitted), Marc Pittonet (Injured), Caleb Marchbank (Managed)
[1] We will miss Pittonet, who usually plays well against Witts. Tom has a very poor record against Witts and has always played to his weaknesses against him. If he plays to his strengths and moves Witts around ... Still, I see this is a major danger.
[2] Saad, Cowan and Fogarty in is good for us. Saad defends and attacks. Fogarty keeps the ball in our forward half and provides opportunities for his team mates. Cowan played well last week in the 2's: I'd be thinking of using his in the middle.
[3] GC's strength is their midfield. If we can keep them under control, we should do well. But we should match up carefully.
[4] How Fantasia still gets games amazes me. Corey Durdin was good against Melbourne, but has been too quiet too often. How is he not better than Fantasia though? Fantasia has 1 goal in the seniors for the year and hasn't looked dangerous.
[5] Marchbank - he has to be a worry. If he can't play 3 weeks in a row, then he is done.
[6] Olli Hollands was brilliant against Melbourne for 3 quarters, but that's been it. He needs to stand up this round.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: rocky on May 23, 2024, 08:56:57 pm
B: [42] Adam Saad, [23] Jacob Weitering, [2] Lachlan Cowan HB: [17] Brodie Kemp, [11] Mitch McGovern, [24] Nic Newman C: [4] Oliver Hollands, [9] Patrick Cripps, [13] Blake Acres HF: [6] Zac Williams, [10] Harry McKay, [20] Elijah Hollands F: [14] Orazio Fantasia, [30] Charlie Curnow, [44] Matthew Owies R: [12] Tom De Koning, [18] Sam Walsh, [7] Matthew Kennedy Int: [37] Jordan Boyd, [29] George Hewett, [39] Alex Cincotta, [8] Lachie Fogarty, [16] Jack Carroll
Em: [19] Corey Durdin, [33] Lewis Young, [25] Jaxon Binns
In: Adam Saad, Lachlan Cowan, Lachie Fogarty Out: Corey Durdin (Omitted), Marc Pittonet (Injured), Caleb Marchbank (Managed)
[1] We will miss Pittonet, who usually plays well against Witts. Tom has a very poor record against Witts and has always played to his weaknesses against him. If he plays to his strengths and moves Witts around ... Still, I see this is a major danger.
[2] Saad, Cowan and Fogarty in is good for us. Saad defends and attacks. Fogarty keeps the ball in our forward half and provides opportunities for his team mates. Cowan played well last week in the 2's: I'd be thinking of using his in the middle.
[3] GC's strength is their midfield. If we can keep them under control, we should do well. But we should match up carefully.
[4] How Fantasia still gets games amazes me. Corey Durdin was good against Melbourne, but has been too quiet too often. How is he not better than Fantasia though? Fantasia has 1 goal in the seniors for the year and hasn't looked dangerous.
[5] Marchbank - he has to be a worry. If he can't play 3 weeks in a row, then he is done.
[6] Olli Hollands was brilliant against Melbourne for 3 quarters, but that's been it. He needs to stand up this round.
Can't disagree with any of what you said. TDK likely to get monstered by Witts but we have no fit options who wouldn't, indeed Pitto is the only player on the list who wouldn't. However as you say if TDK plays to his strengths he has tools to exploit his athletic superiority. Against the monsters I think TDK has to play ruck in the way Harry does or Lewis Young. In the actual ruck duals just compete - where possible stand off and jump - but try to make yourself a presence at ground level and by presenting and marking around the ground. Ideally you want more from your no. 1 ruck than just trying to compete at the ball-ups but the reality is Pitto aside we have no-one who can stand their ground against a Witts and not be badly beaten, that is just a fact we have to live with and the only thing keeping Pitto in the side at all.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 24, 2024, 05:18:38 pm
B: [42] Adam Saad, [23] Jacob Weitering, [2] Lachlan Cowan HB: [17] Brodie Kemp, [11] Mitch McGovern, [24] Nic Newman C: [4] Oliver Hollands, [9] Patrick Cripps, [13] Blake Acres HF: [6] Zac Williams, [10] Harry McKay, [20] Elijah Hollands F: [14] Orazio Fantasia, [30] Charlie Curnow, [44] Matthew Owies R: [12] Tom De Koning, [18] Sam Walsh, [7] Matthew Kennedy Int: [37] Jordan Boyd, [29] George Hewett, [39] Alex Cincotta, [8] Lachie Fogarty, [16] Jack Carroll
Em: [19] Corey Durdin, [33] Lewis Young, [25] Jaxon Binns
In: Adam Saad, Lachlan Cowan, Lachie Fogarty Out: Corey Durdin (Omitted), Marc Pittonet (Injured), Caleb Marchbank (Managed)
[1] We will miss Pittonet, who usually plays well against Witts. Tom has a very poor record against Witts and has always played to his weaknesses against him. If he plays to his strengths and moves Witts around ... Still, I see this is a major danger.
[2] Saad, Cowan and Fogarty in is good for us. Saad defends and attacks. Fogarty keeps the ball in our forward half and provides opportunities for his team mates. Cowan played well last week in the 2's: I'd be thinking of using his in the middle.
[3] GC's strength is their midfield. If we can keep them under control, we should do well. But we should match up carefully.
[4] How Fantasia still gets games amazes me. Corey Durdin was good against Melbourne, but has been too quiet too often. How is he not better than Fantasia though? Fantasia has 1 goal in the seniors for the year and hasn't looked dangerous.
[5] Marchbank - he has to be a worry. If he can't play 3 weeks in a row, then he is done.
[6] Olli Hollands was brilliant against Melbourne for 3 quarters, but that's been it. He needs to stand up this round.
Just a couple of points: Durdin has been way more ineffective than Fantasia. If Motlop was fit I'd guess neither would play. With Moo back this week, I'd chuck Cincotta in the guts and add him to the midfield rotation. Played midfield in his VFL days, has size, speed, grunt and is a good driving (ie low) kick.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 24, 2024, 05:40:58 pm
Just a couple of points: Durdin has been way more ineffective than Fantasia. If Motlop was fit I'd guess neither would play. With Moo back this week, I'd chuck Cincotta in the guts and add him to the midfield rotation. Played midfield in his VFL days, has size, speed, grunt and is a good driving (ie low) kick.
Durdin had one more effective possession than all of us on the forum last game so the bar is low.....Orazio is a 100 game plus player who should be doing a lot better in a team with two dominant big forwards imo. He probably should have started in the twos when the season began and worked into some form but injuries to other players forced his inclusion so he ended up in the deep end and has spent most of the season drowning unfortunately. I think the ideal small forwards can take a turn in the midfield and a lot of the better ones do and I wonder if Orazio given some real minutes in the middle it might be a catalyst to get him going...
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 24, 2024, 08:01:18 pm
Durdin had one more effective possession than all of us on the forum last game so the bar is low.....Orazio is a 100 game plus player who should be doing a lot better in a team with two dominant big forwards imo. He probably should have started in the twos when the season began and worked into some form but injuries to other players forced his inclusion so he ended up in the deep end and has spent most of the season drowning unfortunately. I think the ideal small forwards can take a turn in the midfield and a lot of the better ones do and I wonder if Orazio given some real minutes in the middle it might be a catalyst to get him going...
In one of the praccy matches, he had some spurts in the middle and I thought he looked ok there.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: kruddler on May 25, 2024, 09:15:19 am
A win will get us into the 8. A 50-point win will get us to 5th.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: Thryleon on May 25, 2024, 09:32:55 am
Can anyone see us winning today based on what we've been doing for 4 quarters most weeks?
We don't look fit, and we were soundly obliterated after half time last week.
If young is fit he should be playing. Weiters going down cooked us, you could argue we looked better with young than without him so far this season.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 25, 2024, 09:40:25 am
GC are not that great and are poor away from home.Blues by 28 points with Charlie and Harry in the goals and Cripps and Walsh in the stats.. I think Port ,Essendon and the Cats will tell us more in games coming up..
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: Professer E on May 25, 2024, 09:51:43 am
Loose this and the season is cooked and the heat will really ramp up. The pile-on (starting with the failed fireman) will be brutal.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: PaulP on May 25, 2024, 09:57:53 am
But we don't learn it's the same old issues over and over
Don't worry, Professory, I agree it's a massive hurdle. Especially when the opposition counters our set-up. I hope, mmm... pray, we took a leaf out of the Dishlickers book in their game against the Fluffy Ducks, when the ducks dialled up the pressure, the Dishlickers responded with their own dialled up pressure and the ducks struggled. If not for the injuries to key personnel in that game I reckon the Dishlickers would have gotten up.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: BluePhantom on May 25, 2024, 12:19:50 pm
NO more injuries!
Please.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2024 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Gold Coast
Post by: PaulP on May 25, 2024, 01:15:38 pm