Probably won't get the 3: not as many possessions as Walsh, but he does attract attention.
He won us the game in a 10 minute burst though
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: cookie2 on May 30, 2024, 10:19:30 pm
Great game, great win. Go Blues in 24!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: tex on May 30, 2024, 10:20:23 pm
Boys clearly happy with that win!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: rocky on May 30, 2024, 10:25:06 pm
Ffffffin F2Rk#n awesome. Just awesome. Didn't go to sleep in the last 10m and looked like we could have piled on a couple more. From 2 weeks ago when we looked shot physically we are suddenly running out games like a real top 4 side. Gee I don't know whether to start believing?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: LoveNavy on May 30, 2024, 10:26:20 pm
Walsh with 13 tackles. Phenomenal alongside his running, disposals, and metres gained 🤯
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: LoveNavy on May 30, 2024, 10:29:30 pm
Well I am most impressed with our finish. Simply the best
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Professer E on May 30, 2024, 10:30:16 pm
Work rate enormous and really wanted it, haven't seen that from this side for a long time.
Better ball users coming in to the side makes us look better.
Cripps' last quarter, showing that the Hornet only runs one way, and Walsh's work rate... unbelievable. Great effort from role players like Kemp, Cinch et al.
Negatives. Soldo, a straight out dog. Umpires, WTF !?! And Fantasia....my blind poodle would be more use. Don't get me started on the commentary.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 30, 2024, 10:32:48 pm
Very good win and the skipper after a quiet night tore the game open and played a fine last quarter. Fine effort from Cincotta on Butters and I thought TDK was consistently good through the game, got a contribution from most players. Jacob Weitering was my BOG keeping Big Bad Charlie to one disposal and his little mate Boyd blanketed the Port smalls along with Saad. Nice to win in a venue where wins have been non existent and we have a good rest now till we play the Bombers which will probably be the game of the season for us...
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: LP on May 30, 2024, 10:38:35 pm
Was so glad to see us play out the game and not go into goalkeeping mode, we need a few more of those wins they build confidence, AFL players are hunters not shepherds!
Doing it in the SA is an even bigger plus!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 30, 2024, 10:40:07 pm
Just imaging if we had Zac Butter in our midfield, his speed is incredible and he is always on the move.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 30, 2024, 10:40:27 pm
Gibba having a great old time in the rooms
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 30, 2024, 10:47:05 pm
Just imaging if we had Zac Butter in our midfield, his speed is incredible and he is always on the move.
We probably timed it well given they had Rozee and Rioli out.....the extra mid and the latter being able to kick a goal unlike the Port smalls who were unsighted probably made a real difference. I wouldnt mind either ZB or JHF in Navy Blue...
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: LoveNavy on May 30, 2024, 10:50:02 pm
55 (+15) i50's 75 (+15) tackles Tells a story of how much we wanted that W
Super effort. Never gave up. Kept the pressure up all game. Just a bit sloppy around goals in 2q
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 30, 2024, 10:51:43 pm
We probably timed it well given they had Rozee and Rioli out.....the extra mid and the latter being able to kick a goal unlike the Port smalls who were unsighted probably made a real difference. I wouldnt mind either ZB or JHF in Navy Blue...
We'd be no chance of luring JHF but ZB is every chance of being convinced to come home and play for a club with +100K members. His pace and clean hands is precisely what we need.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Professer E on May 30, 2024, 10:54:20 pm
Any update on TdK, look like an arm or wrist or even ribs? Landed very heavily.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 30, 2024, 10:57:25 pm
Any update on TdK, look like an arm or wrist or even ribs? Landed very heavily.
Type of player you take off when the game is won to protect him from himself, hopefully only badly winded with some bruising at worst, played very well despite Soldos efforts to injure him and others..
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: DJC on May 30, 2024, 11:01:11 pm
I was really worried that Port’s huge thug, Ollie Wines, was going to hurt Harry in a ruck contest but, fortunately, Harry got through unscathed 🤣
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: cookie2 on May 30, 2024, 11:10:56 pm
Ffffffin F2Rk#n awesome. Just awesome. Didn't go to sleep in the last 10m and looked like we could have piled on a couple more. From 2 weeks ago when we looked shot physically we are suddenly running out games like a real top 4 side. Gee I don't know whether to start believing?
Agree, we paced ourselves well and had plenty in the tank to put 'em to the sword in the 4th.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Thryleon on May 30, 2024, 11:11:46 pm
A few weeks ago we were desperate for the bye, look how much can change in a shirt period of time.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 30, 2024, 11:16:06 pm
I was really worried that Port’s huge thug, Ollie Wines, was going to hurt Harry in a ruck contest but, fortunately, Harry got through unscathed 🤣
Strange move from Hinkley imo and I thought Wines contributed well early when not in the ruck but tired when he went in the ruck and that move helped us both in the ruck contests and around the clearances.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: LP on May 30, 2024, 11:23:25 pm
Strange move from Hinkley imo and I thought Wines contributed well early when not in the ruck but tired when he went in the ruck and that move helped us both in the ruck contests and around the clearances.
Yes, I suspect a few of Hinkley's players are underdone and/or carrying injuries, because I thought the same about some of Hinkley's weirdness and couldn't explain it! It's like they'd work hard to win momentum then just surrender it a moment later.
Almost the AFL equivalent of a game of checkers, not sure it was a great night for either coach, but our players were switched on and supreme.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Professer E on May 30, 2024, 11:25:03 pm
Port looked cleaner than us in close and fumbled less. Their top liners are certainly elite.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: LP on May 30, 2024, 11:26:07 pm
Port looked cleaner than us in close and fumbled less. Their top liners are certainly elite.
JHF is a freak and he lifts those around him.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Professer E on May 30, 2024, 11:29:22 pm
But Cripps owned him when it mattered because he worked harder and pushed harder defensively
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: LP on May 30, 2024, 11:30:26 pm
In retrospect I think our season long contested style saw us through under the new rule, because our panicky game style isn't degraded by the rule change, I guess we've been doing it longer than the others. I didn't see that coming!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: townsendcalling on May 30, 2024, 11:33:26 pm
Williams not only kicks goals he also knows how to block for the towers and occupy his man at the right time.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Lods on May 31, 2024, 12:26:51 am
I don't think the change in interpretation of the holding the ball had a great impact on the game. We knew what to expect and there were no real surprises with the decisions. Cripps, Charlie and Walsh played pretty much in their normal fashion. A couple of times they were pinged for the same things they got away with last week, but we knew that was coming.
Probably the best lesson to come out of the game was to continue to keep playing in the normal manner, rather than shutting up shop half way through the last quarter.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: BluePhantom on May 31, 2024, 07:08:09 am
Rozee, Rioli? Two players out? Hold my Beer! ....
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: pinot on May 31, 2024, 07:15:13 am
How good is it waking up to that win!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Professer E on May 31, 2024, 08:04:45 am
Findlayson, Georgiadis and the Charlie yet he rucked Wines and Soldo. Am I missing something?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Baggers on May 31, 2024, 08:12:00 am
Type of player you take off when the game is won to protect him from himself, hopefully only badly winded with some bruising at worst, played very well despite Soldos efforts to injure him and others..
He looked fine in the rooms after the game... no apparent shoulder or arm issues - probably winded.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: LP on May 31, 2024, 08:20:20 am
I thought the Voss presser was impressive, especially the discussion around holding Cincotta on Butters.
The media always bang on about should you do this move or do that move, rarely considering the costs of getting it wrong, but the presser showed Voss is in good form at the moment because he wasn't simplistically reactive, we took the win on Butters and didn't burn it trying to stop JHF.
Having said that I didn't think it was a great game for either coach, they sort of went in with a plan and stuck to it, almost like heavyweights gauging the opposition in the 1st Round. I suspect that's a sign they expect to meet at the pointy end of the season, neither have given too much away.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Baggers on May 31, 2024, 08:35:32 am
Now that was us. As for that final qtr... for those of us getting long in the fang, reminiscent of the 70s/80s/mid 90s.
Rapt to see creativity from the coaching boxes. Williams to the forward line, Cincotta a run with role...
Charles and H working beautifully together.
Cowan & Kemp coming along nicely.
Acres rapidly becoming Mr Reliable. If not already.
Take a bow, TDK.
Crippa, Walshy... cometh the hour, cometh the men. (Walshy, stop putting the aggot onto the chest of opponents... clean up on that foot disposal and you may very well become Mr Perfect!).
Vossy, congrats on the weight loss and drinking water during games rather than that poison lolly-water, coke. Love your comment (when commentators mention AO hoodoo), "We don't play the ground, we play the opposition side." Or something like that. Great mindset. The boldness of tweaking during games is ripper stuff.
Another hoodoo (AO)... buried.
The Fantasia experiment aint working. Note to Mr Motlop... make it impossible not to get a recall to the senior line-up after Sunday's VFL game.
When we're the hunters, we're irresistible. Port succumbed to that relentless pressure, as will most.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 31, 2024, 08:44:30 am
And even better when this Melb boy wakes up in Adelaide after attending the game. Don't wear my scarf too often (other than at the game) but may just strut around town today with it on.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: BluePhantom on May 31, 2024, 08:55:12 am
I thought Fantasia did well last night, a couple of almost goals, that one he soccered would've been amazing, but quite a number of deft touches during play. Not gaining a possession but bettering the ball. Putting himself in the right spot, playing his role. Unless he plays like Walshy he will always get the negative comments.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: LordLucifer on May 31, 2024, 09:42:21 am
Best game DeKoning has played for the club, really looked like he belongs.
Three times Walsh tried to break through tackles and got pinged, he needs to be smarter than that.
Some better second efforts from Curnow wouldn't go astray either.
Cincotta ....... sensational !!
Zac Williams infuriates me, his good is very good but his bad is too costly.
Not sure what to think of McGovern.
Cripps was great in the first, non-existent in the second & third and then a tsunami in the last.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Lods on May 31, 2024, 09:48:27 am
I thought Fantasia did well last night, a couple of almost goals, that one he soccered would've been amazing, but quite a number of deft touches during play. Not gaining a possession but bettering the ball. Putting himself in the right spot, playing his role. Unless he plays like Walshy he will always get the negative comments.
I actually noticed him a bit more last night than I have all year. 10 touches...if he'd kicked that goal and maybe another one we'd probably be saying that wasn't a bad small forward game. But he didn't, and was eventually subbed out so...
If Motlop can have a good game in the VFL he's probably out of the side. He might be out anyway....
The forward line is an area where it's going to be difficult to fit them all in. Williams isn't going back... ever. 3.2 last night but... It's not just the goals he's kicking, it's his positioning and blocking that's making a real difference.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Professer E on May 31, 2024, 10:03:10 am
Newman needs to work on his right side kicking, lost count of the semi-smothered dump kicks last night. Opponents are wising up to him. Saad is the same - opponents keep pushing him to kick on his one side.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 31, 2024, 10:11:25 am
I actually noticed him a bit more last night than I have all year. 10 touches...if he'd kicked that goal and maybe another one we'd probably be saying that wasn't a bad small forward game. But he didn't, and was eventually subbed out so...
If Motlop can have a good game in the VFL he's probably out of the side. He might be out anyway....
The forward line is an area where it's going to be difficult to fit them all in. Williams isn't going back... ever. 3.2 last night but... It's not just the goals he's kicking, it's his positioning and blocking that's making a real difference.
I reckon sooner rather than later, Orazio is going to hit the scoreboard hard in a game at turn it. He has the ability, he and Fog do "things".
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: tonyo on May 31, 2024, 10:24:53 am
I reckon sooner rather than later, Orazio is going to hit the scoreboard hard in a game at turn it. He has the ability, he and Fog do "things".
Watched Fogarty's game closely last night - I think it is no coincidence that our forward line has looked far more dangerous since he came back last week. Good overhead for a little guy, and does the in-close stuff so well. And his tackles stick.......
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: PaulP on May 31, 2024, 10:25:40 am
I don't understand the hostility towards Orazio.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Professer E on May 31, 2024, 10:32:04 am
I can. A lot of on field time for little impacts. Not getting to the right places. Not enough pressure acts, blocks tackles and goals. The currency of a small forward.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: DJC on May 31, 2024, 10:37:55 am
Strange move from Hinkley imo and I thought Wines contributed well early when not in the ruck but tired when he went in the ruck and that move helped us both in the ruck contests and around the clearances.
Dixon is too banged up to move out of the forward 50 but why didn’t Marshall do more?
Apart from reducing his impact, rucking Wines allowed us to use Kennedy and Cripps to support Tom and Harry and they’re both used to taking ruck contests.
Hinkley would have been better off playing Finlayson and giving Dixon another week off.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: DJC on May 31, 2024, 10:49:30 am
He was an important contributor again, but he does need to make more of his goal scoring opportunities.
He is a smart footballer who makes good position and works hard to support his teammates but doesn’t perform spectacular individual efforts; classic qualifications for whipping boy 😕
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Professer E on May 31, 2024, 10:54:49 am
So you think he's doing his job?
Durden was doing more (e.g against Melbourne) and is playing twos.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: DJC on May 31, 2024, 11:03:36 am
Williams not only kicks goals he also knows how to block for the towers and occupy his man at the right time.
I know that some supporters are critical of Zac’s efforts in defence but, as a forward, his defensive work is creating opportunities for his teammates and himself … and he’s making the most of his opportunities.
He seems to be enjoying his footy more and his celebration of his and his teammates’ goals is infectious, like Charlie’s and Owies’, and is team lifting
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: DJC on May 31, 2024, 11:18:33 am
Horne-Francis took on the tackler(s), was eventually brought to the ground and didn’t attempt to dispose of the ball; ball up.
Walsh was pinged for similar efforts, the difference being that the ball was jarred free. Is that how the rule is meant to be adjudicated?
In his pre-game interview, Sam said that they had made adjustments to comply with the changed interpretation and that seemed to be the case most of the time. A player like Sam, who loves to take the game on, can be excused for a couple of adrenaline fuelled holding the balls.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: PaulP on May 31, 2024, 11:39:20 am
I thought Fantasia did well last night, a couple of almost goals, that one he soccered would've been amazing, but quite a number of deft touches during play. Not gaining a possession but bettering the ball. Putting himself in the right spot, playing his role. Unless he plays like Walshy he will always get the negative comments.
To my eyes, he seems a "so close" player at the moment. You can see his brain working, you can see what he wants to do, but everything is just a fraction off. Certainly not the slack ar$e time waster that some are implying.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: WASurfer on May 31, 2024, 11:51:47 am
The usual suspects stood up again, but gotta love the contributions we're getting from the lesser names who are playing their role.....Kemp, Fogarty, Boyd, Cincotta, Elijah Hollands (close to his best game last night). Kemp makes the odd blunder but really looks to have a lot more confidence to take the game on now.
Elijah Hollands might prove to be a bit like the Acres trade for us.
Probably TDK's best game too...up there with the 3 goal burst against GWS. He doesn't seem to be as worried about the big ruckman opponents...just jumps over them. Then he's almost Kruezer like when the ball hits the ground in the centre square...very good below his knees.
We seemed to have the better of them for most of the night and thoroughly deserved that win. For the most part the new holding the ball interpretation worked okay, except when Port got tackled with it! Horne Francis is a great player but very good at ducking into tackles and winning kicks when I thought that was your prior?
As for Cripps...what else can be said that hasn't already? If he keeps this up, he'll be right there when the votes are being counted in the last round.
Assuming no injuries out of last night, it's possible we go into next week's game with an unchanged lineup again? If either of Motlop or Marchbank have solid games in the VFL this weekend, that's the only change I can see happening.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: BlackRooster on May 31, 2024, 11:58:25 am
My brother kept coming to me during the game about too many easy marks in their forward line and how the flood gates were going to open against us. I pointed out that we just needed to clean up the use of our ball around the ground and going forward and then POW what a last qrt. He came back after the game and said see i told you the flood gates would open. :) GO BLUE BAGGERS
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: BlackRooster on May 31, 2024, 12:01:33 pm
Work rate enormous and really wanted it, haven't seen that from this side for a long time.
Better ball users coming in to the side makes us look better.
Cripps' last quarter, showing that the Hornet only runs one way, and Walsh's work rate... unbelievable. Great effort from role players like Kemp, Cinch et al.
Negatives. Soldo, a straight out dog. Umpires, WTF !?! And Fantasia....my blind poodle would be more use. Don't get me started on the commentary.
Proff agree about the commentary, here are the Blues playing good football smashing the power and all the channel 7 team could talk about was JHF. What the F. Disgraceful
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 31, 2024, 12:13:58 pm
Durden was doing more (e.g against Melbourne) and is playing twos.
With the utmost of respect Prof, it;s in our eyes that Durdin did more v Melb but as we all know, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Fantasia's and Fog's games were very similar last night I reckon, yet many laud Fog and smash Fantasia. He could have easily had 2 or 3 goals last night and is getting certain instructions to perform certain tasks which we dont know the intricacies of. He must be playing that role better than Durdin or he wouldn't be in the side. If Motlop displaces him, I'll be watching his output closely. Anyway, lets just take last nights win for what it is, a very solid team performance. Every one to a man contributed to my eye at least.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: WASurfer on May 31, 2024, 12:32:29 pm
I can't see any difference in the Soldo hit to Plowman a couple of years back against the Hawks....going for the ball to spoil, eyes on the ball at all times then accidental contact with the head....and he got two weeks. Commentators last night trying to say it was just accidental and nothing in it.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: LordLucifer on May 31, 2024, 12:33:08 pm
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 31, 2024, 12:46:59 pm
Williams has lifted his output as a forward and the responsibility of not having a man and being allowed freedom has helped his game and he is doing more than Durdin and Fantasia in getting to the fall of the ball or where kicks are dropping short. Agree with Tonyo on Fogarty, a no name player whose role is as vital as most in what he brings and when he doesn't play we lose our structure and balance down forward. I think the coach likes Fantasia and I expect he will hold his spot for the bombers clash unless Motlop has a blinder in the VFL.Motlop might replace Carroll...
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: DJC on May 31, 2024, 12:50:40 pm
I can't see any difference in the Soldo hit to Plowman a couple of years back against the Hawks....going for the ball to spoil, eyes on the ball at all times then accidental contact with the head....and he got two weeks. Commentators last night trying to say it was just accidental and nothing in it.
Nothing in it; incidental contact while going for the ball, and McGovern wasn’t hurt. If anything, the high contact on De Koning immediately before the clash with McGovern should be looked at.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Professer E on May 31, 2024, 01:07:11 pm
Looked like he went in low (good) but was second in and a little bit indiscriminate (bad) for mind, kind of like Dangerflog. It's the pattern of behaviour I don't like....a lot of "oops sorry clumsiness" but that doesn't hold water when people get hurt.
I thought McG got a lot of treatment last night...marginally late physicality and was constantly held. I wonder if they considered him a bit "fragile" - there was an awful lot of feeling in his goal celebration (it was a stunner to be said).
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: pew2 on May 31, 2024, 01:49:09 pm
great win good to see the team stand up in the last Q AND PUT THE SCORE ON THE BOARD, but how many games have we been in that position at 3/4 time only to lose. My only concern is that long bomb into F50 and to watch opposition players mark the ball could be costly against good teams.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: WASurfer on May 31, 2024, 01:59:56 pm
agreed Pew....Walsh was guilty of it quite a bit in the first half with his kicks into the F50....but hard to criticise him with his workrate and efforts. He's just a machine. And there were those rumours pre-season about his back injury being way worse, he was likely for surgery, it could be career ending etc....he hasn't missed a beat since he came back in and would be on his way to AA consideration again.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Milhanna13 on May 31, 2024, 02:02:15 pm
were they there?? it sounded very tinny and no atmosphere, almost like they were in a studio. dont get me started on JSelwood - how can he be that poor?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 31, 2024, 02:13:23 pm
Looked like he went in low (good) but was second in and a little bit indiscriminate (bad) for mind, kind of like Dangerflog. It's the pattern of behaviour I don't like....a lot of "oops sorry clumsiness" but that doesn't hold water when people get hurt.
I thought McG got a lot of treatment last night...marginally late physicality and was constantly held. I wonder if they considered him a bit "fragile" - there was an awful lot of feeling in his goal celebration (it was a stunner to be said).
I noticed Gov was wearing a fair sized mattress under his jumper, been copping "treatment" from oppo players for weeks now. Vossy needs to go back to the umpires this week and get them to have a look at some of the decisions (or non decisions) against Gov, was having his jumper held all night. Anyway, we got the chocolates so PA and the umps can GAGF.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 31, 2024, 02:39:00 pm
Looked like he went in low (good) but was second in and a little bit indiscriminate (bad) for mind, kind of like Dangerflog. It's the pattern of behaviour I don't like....a lot of "oops sorry clumsiness" but that doesn't hold water when people get hurt.
I thought McG got a lot of treatment last night...marginally late physicality and was constantly held. I wonder if they considered him a bit "fragile" - there was an awful lot of feeling in his goal celebration (it was a stunner to be said).
I thought McGovern had a bit of a shocker and Georgiades played very well on him, he did cop a block from Soldo which was a free but not paid by the umpires, he seemed to be trailing behind the Port kid all the time and that goal he kicked was about his best piece of play for the evening. The umpires let a lot of stuff go and paid some real rubbish imo....Soldo continually pushed TDK well before the ball arrived in several ruck contests and got away with it as well as being conveniently clumsy and connecting with our players heads on occasions.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 31, 2024, 04:22:26 pm
I thought McGovern had a bit of a shocker and Georgiades played very well on him, he did cop a block from Soldo which was a free but not paid by the umpires, he seemed to be trailing behind the Port kid all the time and that goal he kicked was about his best piece of play for the evening. The umpires let a lot of stuff go and paid some real rubbish imo....Soldo continually pushed TDK well before the ball arrived in several ruck contests and got away with it as well as being conveniently clumsy and connecting with our players heads on occasions.
Had his jumper held in another
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: DJC on May 31, 2024, 04:23:16 pm
We laid 75 tackles last night and how many frees did we get for holding the ball? Owies got one under the new interpretation but were there any others?
I believe that Port were awarded three holding the ball frees from 60 tackles.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Lods on May 31, 2024, 05:39:25 pm
We laid 75 tackles last night and how many frees did we get for holding the ball? Owies got one under the new interpretation but were there any others?
I believe that Port were awarded three holding the ball frees from 60 tackles.
Yep I don't think the game was played differently at all.
I thought early on that Walsh was getting rid of the ball fairly quickly, but in the end he, Cripps and Curnow played exactly the same as they normally do.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: kruddler on May 31, 2024, 06:36:24 pm
The alternatives are many, but include Motlop......who kicked 4 goals against this mob as a late in last year. Kickd 2 goals or more 10 times last year as well....as a 19yo.
Meanwhile, this (soon to be) 29yo has kicked 2 goals in 10 games.....total
Still having trouble understand the hostility?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: cookie2 on May 31, 2024, 06:47:54 pm
Motlop hasn't been available for weeks. Durdin doesn't do much, so why be hostile to Fantasia? What other small forward is he keeping out atm ?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: northernblue on May 31, 2024, 06:48:13 pm
The alternatives are many, but include Motlop......who kicked 4 goals against this mob as a late in last year. Kickd 2 goals or more 10 times last year as well....as a 19yo.
Meanwhile, this (soon to be) 29yo has kicked 2 goals in 10 games.....total
Still having trouble understand the hostility?
So seemingly by your definition it’s ok if he avoids sunburn by standing in H’s shadow, but slips out and kicks 2-3 ? No one is lauding his form but he keeps getting picked, yeah we’ve got injuries to his competitors but he must be doing something to please the selectors.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: DJC on May 31, 2024, 06:53:28 pm
The alternatives are many, but include Motlop......who kicked 4 goals against this mob as a late in last year. Kickd 2 goals or more 10 times last year as well....as a 19yo.
Meanwhile, this (soon to be) 29yo has kicked 2 goals in 10 games.....total
Still having trouble understand the hostility?
Vossy reckons that Raz is performing the roles he's been set so, no, I don't understand the hostility, particularly since Motlop has only played in one VFL game where he didn't do much.
I'd prefer to see Motlop in the 23, but only if he's burning it up in the VFL.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: PaulP on May 31, 2024, 07:01:05 pm
Suffice to say, I have no idea what tasks / roles the coaches assign to Orazio, so I have no idea whether he's meeting his KPI's etc. I can only speculate based on what I see and hear, limited as that is. Even if he is Motlop's understudy, he could still be doing everything the coaches ask. I have no way of knowing, and I'd be wary of becoming like one of the characters in Plato's Allegory Of The Cave.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 31, 2024, 07:04:01 pm
Fantasia is getting a game because Motlop has been injured and was poor in his return game, Martin is having his usual third of the season holiday and Durdin couldnt get a kick in a loaded horse float.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Lods on May 31, 2024, 07:08:35 pm
...so he's the best we've got at the moment.
The fact that he was subbed out last night may mean that the ball is really in Motlop's court. But he has to perform this weekend.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Thryleon on May 31, 2024, 07:09:48 pm
On numerous occasions you see fantasia working up the ground. Imho owies is who motlop is competing with, Williams has taken martin's role, and fantasia is in the team until cotters comes back.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: LoveNavy on May 31, 2024, 11:02:23 pm
Just watched the replay. Of note:
- we made plenty of errors and were inconsistent (for 3q) - we reset quickly and got stuck in - remained composed for the most part - effort was sensational - we're becoming flexible and unpredictable - fwd line finally cohesive, making rebounds difficult for oppo. Big boys spreading much better and smalls finding good position - we're maturing in terms of adapting on the run and team cohesion - shepherding, blocks 🙌 - Cincotta and ZW executed new roles to perfection - youngsters developing nicely- Kemp, Moo, Ollie. Carroll - hard to tell as sub - leaders led and we have many - Vossy's a pro: coaching from the bench and giving intelligent pressers
A few minor disappointments - MK had a fumbly night, but kept at it - we need more midfield speed - as good as he's been, ZW needs to watch his flailing arms and overreactions (as it appears on tv) - white is unbecoming and isn't navy blue
Go Blues
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Blue Moon on June 01, 2024, 08:15:27 am
Good win by the Blues. Good not to be worrying with ten minutes to go. Port is a good team but lack depth in their squad. Williams, Cincotta, Kemp and McGovern kicked six goals for the match. They were our backline a few weeks ago. Once again a small forward kicking goals. Who would have thought. Backline solid and structured and forwards more dangerous. Players like Walsh need to make better decisions when going forward. When the midfield gets on top they can be devastating. We seem to have more pace in the team, the players appear to have more buy in to the game plan and our kicking and tackling has improved. Confident about Essendon. The team needs to improve in the second half of the year like last year which was the first time in over twenty years. Would like to make top four. Top two would be better.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Baggers on June 01, 2024, 09:04:17 am
- we made plenty of errors and were inconsistent (for 3q) - we reset quickly and got stuck in - remained composed for the most part - effort was sensational - we're becoming flexible and unpredictable - fwd line finally cohesive, making rebounds difficult for oppo. Big boys spreading much better and smalls finding good position - we're maturing in terms of adapting on the run and team cohesion - shepherding, blocks 🙌 - Cincotta and ZW executed new roles to perfection - youngsters developing nicely- Kemp, Moo, Ollie. Carroll - hard to tell as sub - leaders led and we have many - Vossy's a pro: coaching from the bench and giving intelligent pressers
A few minor disappointments - MK had a fumbly night, but kept at it - we need more midfield speed - as good as he's been, ZW needs to watch his flailing arms and overreactions (as it appears on tv) - white is unbecoming and isn't navy blue
Go Blues
Nice, LN.
Yes, also noticed that we can now make changes within games - no head-dropping when things don't go our way. We're still a work in progress, but that progress, in game, is palpable with adapting and adjusting front and centre... this is new for us and really, really pleasing. So glad we stuck with Moo down back and Williams up front. ZW is one of those rare 'small forwards' who only needs a sniff and split second opportunity to create a goal from bugger all.
Also not a huge fan of our away strip... not enough navy in it.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Thryleon on June 01, 2024, 09:04:43 am
Ports issues are the same as carltons from 2011. Look great but lack the key position players to make a difference.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: DJC on June 01, 2024, 09:27:57 am
Hinkley should have stuck a fork in Dixon and played Finlayson. It’s a bit sad to see such a powerhouse going at half rat power but I suspect that Weiters didn’t mind.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: kruddler on June 01, 2024, 09:46:35 am
Fantasia is getting a game because Motlop has been injured and was poor in his return game, Martin is having his usual third of the season holiday and Durdin couldnt get a kick in a loaded horse float.
Pretty much.
Fantasia is 'doing his role' is fine. But what was he doing that Durdin wasn't? Its certainly not kicking goals. Going through all the stats show very similar. Plenty have noted Durdin on the last line of defence, so he is clearly working hard as well.
My point about Motlop which most seem to have missed is that pure output wise, he is $hitting all over Fantasia, despite being 10 years younger. Usually when you recruit a mature age player, you do so knowing that you'll get MORE output that the kids they are replacing.
Not the case with him.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: DJC on June 01, 2024, 10:07:38 am
Fantasia is 'doing his role' is fine. But what was he doing that Durdin wasn't? Its certainly not kicking goals. Going through all the stats show very similar. Plenty have noted Durdin on the last line of defence, so he is clearly working hard as well.
My point about Motlop which most seem to have missed is that pure output wise, he is $hitting all over Fantasia, despite being 10 years younger. Usually when you recruit a mature age player, you do so knowing that you'll get MORE output that the kids they are replacing.
Not the case with him.
Durdin is ahead in goals but that’s it, and his last five or six games yielded no goals and little else. Fantasia does more behind and around the ball and Voss is clearly happier with the role that Fantasia is performing.
Motlop’s form from last season is irrelevant; he hasn’t been available and his form in what was virtually a practice game for him was average. Motlop is also a very different type of player to Fantasia in that his impact is as a forward and the latter does more work behind the ball.
That said, I wouldn’t hesitate to replace Fantasia with Motlop or Martin if they were fit and in form. Same with Durdin.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: pinot on June 01, 2024, 10:29:02 am
Cerra, Cotterell, Motlop, Doc and JSOS make us a better team so plenty more upside to come.
The rest have been getting paid while not doing anything. But provide some hope that one day they might come good even though some are turning or about to turn 30 next couple of seasons.
Fantasia hasn't been kicking goals and doesn't need to be good but Zac isn't even a forward and plays the role much better.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: kruddler on June 01, 2024, 10:37:19 am
Durdin is ahead in goals but that’s it, and his last five or six games yielded no goals and little else. Fantasia does more behind and around the ball and Voss is clearly happier with the role that Fantasia is performing.
Motlop’s form from last season is irrelevant; he hasn’t been available and his form in what was virtually a practice game for him was average. Motlop is also a very different type of player to Fantasia in that his impact is as a forward and the latter does more work behind the ball.
That said, I wouldn’t hesitate to replace Fantasia with Motlop or Martin if they were fit and in form. Same with Durdin.
I wouldn't say voss is happy with Fantasias output, if he was he wouldn't be making him sub and subbing him out as often as he does.
Fantasia might be following orders and thats keeping him in the side, but he is not performing 'well'.
I'd prefer cuningham, martin or motlop in the side ahead of him.....and even durdin.....but only with 1 of them available is he 'doing his job'.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: LP on June 01, 2024, 11:03:07 am
Fantasia might be following orders and thats keeping him in the side, but he is not performing 'well'.
Agreed, and he'll probably be retained in that circumstance, last Thursday I thought he was again a little bit better, he'll need to improve further against CheatsFC.
But having said that when you watch the replay there are a couple of ordinary moments where you can see Fantasia around a disputed footy choose to hang back while a team mate suffers an opposition blitzkrieg. I immediately thought of the time sMurph was being pummelled and Touhy and Henderson jogged on by, no matter what your role might be in my book is that choice of action is unacceptable. You go onto the field of play expecting your team-mates to have your back, so you better have theirs too, whether they are being assaulted or set upon for the footy, you must help!
One other thing I've noticed I presume he is also carrying and injury, I had expected Fantasia to be the fleet footed option of our smalls but at the moment he appears to be the slowest of the lot.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: kruddler on June 01, 2024, 11:16:25 am
Agreed, and he'll probably be retained in that circumstance, last Thursday I thought he was again a little bit better, he'll need to improve further against CheatsFC.
But having said that when you watch the replay there are a couple of ordinary moments where you can see Fantasia around a disputed footy choose to hang back while a team mate suffers an opposition blitzkrieg. I immediately thought of the time sMurph was being pummelled and Touhy and Henderson jogged on by, no matter what your role might be in my book is that choice of action is unacceptable. You go onto the field of play expecting your team-mates to have your back, so you better have theirs too, whether they are being assaulted or set upon for the footy, you must help!
One other thing I've noticed I presume he is also carrying and injury, I had expected Fantasia to be the fleet footed option of our smalls but at the moment he appears to be the slowest of the lot.
I remember Fantasia was always called soft previously. I've seen a few examples of it while playing with us, but i'm very hesitent to call players out for it.
But, If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck- , and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Adelaideblue on June 01, 2024, 12:35:52 pm
Carlton members in allocated section. :) :) (and about time!!)
What a great night for Adelaide based supporters.... slashing win, the boys really wanted it!
We have endured some "tough" games at Adelaide Oval including on the scoreboard! Usually with seating right in the middle of Port or Crows supporters. So this time, great to have seating in a Carlton members section.
After siren we stood and sang the song with gusto!
Ab
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: LoveNavy on June 01, 2024, 12:42:34 pm
Carlton members in allocated section. :) :) (and about time!!)
What a great night for Adelaide based supporters.... slashing win, the boys really wanted it!
We have endured some "tough" games at Adelaide Oval including on the scoreboard! Usually with seating right in the middle of Port or Crows supporters. So this time, great to have seating in a Carlton members section.
After siren we stood and sang the song with gusto!
Ab
That's a big win for the club and the boys did it with G & D, topped with a bit of class.
Glad the Adelaide Baggers finally got that sweet taste of success. Enjoy strutting around the streets in your navy blue.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: PaulP on June 01, 2024, 01:10:38 pm
I do understand that, but it's not an exemption from the call, if you're a courier in the great war and you unfortunately run into a platoon of enemy with no chance for escape, you've no choice but to fight!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: PaulP on June 01, 2024, 01:56:50 pm
I do understand that, but it's not an exemption from the call, if you're a courier in the great war and you unfortunately run into a platoon of enemy with no chance for escape, you've no choice but to fight!
Pat, leave aside whatever it is you witnessed all those years ago. Just think through the implications for a second. Fantasia supposedly has a reputation for being soft. He's been in the system since 2014, so is a known quantity. Voss himself has been in the system for decades, was his assistant coach at Port, so they know each other personally and professionally. Voss was the toughest and most uncompromising player of his era. If we believe that these things are true, then Voss is either incompetent (no ability to recognize softness) or corrupt (recognizes this softness but ignores it), or both. And if that's true, then we are wasting our time with Voss and he should be sacked.
There is the additional issue of Fantasia winning the approval and trust of his team mates, and he does this by......... pack skirting ?
Any chance we could let this "player x is soft" nonsense just die ? Surely this has to be the laziest fan trope in sporting history ?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: kruddler on June 01, 2024, 02:40:21 pm
"And he's able to do that and I'm sure over a period of time he'll become a very valuable member of our team."
He'll BECOME a very valuable member. as opposed to He IS a very valuable member.
I don't expect Vossy to say any player is 'no good', you expect him to say what he said. But lets read between the lines (like above) rather than drinking the kool-aid.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 01, 2024, 02:40:36 pm
Doing a "role" is the latest catch phrase excuse for a player who can't get a kick. Fantasia spent half a season in the SANFL playing ok football but was bypassed by Hinkley and crew even when they had nothing of note ie McEntee taking his place, he was playing a role too. I like Orazio for his smarts and skills but he isn't getting it done and should have only got a one year deal initially imo and we now have the situation where the coach is having to defend recruiting him and trying to justify his position in the team. He is getting a game for two reasons imo and they are lack of fit in form alternatives and the coach not willing to admit he is out of form and delivering what he thought he would. This week will test him along with Williams and Fogarty given Essendon have some very attacking small defenders who are starring at the moment and Orazio in particular will need to provide defensive pressure if he ends up on Martin, McGrath etc especially if he isn't kicking goals or doing much to create them..
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: madbluboy on June 01, 2024, 03:18:36 pm
He is playing Cottrell's high half forward role at the moment. He's not going to kick many goals or get huge numbers.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: kruddler on June 01, 2024, 03:22:55 pm
Possibly, but then there is the other 7 games Fantasia played when Cottrell was in the squad.
We don't know how he is coached, but he's having 1/2 the impact of Owies and Cottrell despite having 10 more years of experience.
We also don't know what his role specifically is. I suspect his biggest issue is inaccuracy. He's kicked 2.6 this season, which is low for such an excellent finisher. I'd hazard a guess that with such a long time out of the game, that it's taking a while for him to regain his touch. Just a little off IMO. I think his confidence will increase once he jags a few goals.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: madbluboy on June 01, 2024, 07:00:24 pm
Fantasia missed a game against Geelong. Durdin, Owies and Carroll struggled didnt offer much pressure.
Not sure why supporters have to try to find problems when we're playing well and winning? Do you think if Orazio played in the centre he would only get 10 touches? Do you think Cripps would get 30 if he played half forward?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Lods on June 01, 2024, 09:35:34 pm
When players are missing such as Motlop and Cottrell you have to find a replacement. The replacement will rarely be as good for a few reasons.
1) They're behind the missing player in the pecking order to start with. 2) They won't exactly be able to perform the same role, due to ability and physical differences. 3) Players missing throw an extra burden not just on the replacement, but also on better players who won't necessarily provide the same support to the fill-in. Everyone's roles and responsibilities are impacted.
Fantasia is obviously the best we have for the task at hand at present (His assigned role) When he's not, and others become available, he'll be out of the side. We have little idea what tasks he's given each week.
It's fine looking for someone else but there would be reasons, probably good ones, why Fantasia is getting a game ahead of others. There may be couple of lads in the VFL who could be given a run but maybe for reasons of development they're being brought along at a more steady pace. But as MBB said, we're going pretty well at present. Keep it stable...and wait for the reinforcements ;)
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: kruddler on June 01, 2024, 10:10:49 pm
Fantasia missed a game against Geelong. Durdin, Owies and Carroll struggled didnt offer much pressure.
Not sure why supporters have to try to find problems when we're playing well and winning? Do you think if Orazio played in the centre he would only get 10 touches? Do you think Cripps would get 30 if he played half forward?
You can play well and still be carrying someone.....or multiple players.
You can be content with simply winning, or you can try and improve each and every week, quarter, contest. An obviously week area at present is Fantasia. Its not wrong to point this out. As many have said, he is getting a game because plenty of others are injured.....and thats about the only valid reson for it. But don't take a 'win' as justification of him performing 'well'.
McDonalds is one of the biggest companies in the world. It is not content. It is always trying to innovate, and stay ahead of the game, not simply keep doing 'more of the same' because its worked so far. Their motto is "Green and growing". Its a reference to trees/plants...and similar to Brendan Bolton and his green shoots. While you are green and growing, you are constantly getting bigger, better and not slowing down. This is what i want from my club. Not kicking back and becoming content and failing to innovate. That kind of logic is what set us back and head first into the dark ages we are still emerging from. Lets learn from our mistakes.
So yes, winning, now, still a hell of a lot of room for improvement. #1 on that list is #14.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: LP on June 01, 2024, 10:49:03 pm
Suffice to say, I have no idea what tasks / roles the coaches assign to Orazio, so I have no idea whether he's meeting his KPI's etc. I can only speculate based on what I see and hear, limited as that is. Even if he is Motlop's understudy, he could still be doing everything the coaches ask. I have no way of knowing, and I'd be wary of becoming like one of the characters in Plato's Allegory Of The Cave.
We need more references to the ancients! Personally I am afraid some of our players are convinced by Zeno of Elea's Achilles and the Tortoise and figure there is no point chasing since if you start from behind you can only ever get to where you opponent was not where they are.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: DJC on June 02, 2024, 08:47:36 am
This is a funny old game...(insert cliche*-"a game of inches" :D )
If Fantasia had kicked that 'almost' freak goal I doubt we'd be having this discussion, other than to say "We need to see more of that."
That’s the issue; for most of his career, that goes through but now he can’t buy a goal.
Cottrell’s comments earlier in the season about people not going to the footy to watch him perform his mundane yet important role made it clear that supporters often judge players without knowing what their performance criteria are. However, Cotters usually adds a goal or a mercurial act to performing his role.
Raz has averaged over a goal a game over his career but has managed just two goals for us. No matter how well he performs his role or how satisfied Vossy is with his work, supporters expect goals and Raz doesn’t really look like he’s going to kick one.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: blueianh on June 02, 2024, 08:58:44 am
More to the point on Orazio, I thought we were getting a first class small forward who might be cruelled by injuries/age to the point where he no longer has it even if as fit as he can be. Instead we seem to have got something inherently better - he is doing the Cottrell marathon running role which I never thought he could do. Problem is it does look like he has lost his pace and it is unlikely to come back. He is no doubt a bit rusty and might be able to sharpen up with more time in the middle but the tendency to not go when he needs to - "softness" if you like - and the loss of pace are not likely to change. The question then is whether with those limitations he is ahead of other options. I don't think he is when everyone is up and running but he came at a low cost and was worth the gamble. If contrary to my suspicions there is something temporary effecting his pace and he can get a decent turn of pace back then I think he has something none of our small forwards have - except perhaps Williams - in terms of forward crumbing craft.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Thryleon on June 02, 2024, 09:29:29 am
People saying his pace won't come back or his performance won't lift, we've seen this before. We got a busted up daisy Thomas for a few years. His last couple of years better than his first couple. Orazio has been here for not long. He's doing some deep running and providing some leadership in the absence of other options. When they come back he may not get a game in these roles.
Or he might. Don't judge people on what they aren't providing look at what they do. He's rarely wasteful with his possessions. He brings others into the game. He does some deep running.
He is playing a peripheral role. He's missed a lot of footy in recent seasons and he's making others earn a spot. That's not bad for the team. Some might have a subjective opinion on his worth relative to others but we aren't there 100% of the time. Pretty sure he wont be on huge dollars either, so in the event we lose another small and he actually starts playing like the orazio of old we might get a win. We don't know what mentality he provides to others too. There are intangibles in games.
At least he'd not missing half a season like another 5 or so on the list who should be playing his role and thats worth remembering when bagging him.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: PaulP on June 02, 2024, 09:35:58 am
The worst you can say about Orazio is that he adds to our depth, and if players of his caliber are being kept out of the side by others, surely that bodes well for us as a legitimate top 4 / flag chance ?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: LP on June 02, 2024, 12:05:02 pm
Fantasia is not a bad player but I doubt he is the player he was, I don't get the loyalty coming from our fan base as it seems largely undeserved based on his performance so far.
I want him to come good if he can, but at the moment waiting for him to come good in the AFL comes at a cost, it takes a toll on players around him on the field as they must bridge the gaps in his performance. At the moment he gives us much or less of what we got from the likes of Lang and O'Brien. When Fantasia does contribute it's having a disproportionate positive influence because it comes from such a low base.
Fans wouldn't accept Lang or O'Brien not entering the fray, why do they accept Fantasia?
Anyway, last Thursday was probably his best game so far, so given we've persisted with him after much less I doubt we could justify exclusion this week as it would send the wrong message.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: kruddler on June 02, 2024, 12:27:09 pm
At least he'd not missing half a season like another 5 or so on the list who should be playing his role and thats worth remembering when bagging him.
No, he's not missing half a season. Instead he's missing half a game (or more) each week.
I'd prefer the players who miss half a season, at least they can perform when fit.
Look, i've got nothing against him personally, and most of this should be directed at the match committee as much as anything, but he simply isn't performing up to the standard of a 28yo (soon to be 29yo). There is no way that the recruiters would've recruited him if they had've known this was the output they would get from him. People are happy to see the backs off Marchbank, Cuningham and Martin who have struggled to get out on the park.....but all of them have been able to perform when they do to an acceptable AFL level.
If Fantasia is old, busted and no longer able to perform at an acceptable level, thats fine. Happens to everyone. If Fantasia is simply getting a game because everyone else is injured, thats fine. Someone has to be picked. But don't tell me he is a valuable member of the side. Don't tell me his output is acceptable. Don't tell me he deserves his spot in the side. His output suggests otherwise to all of the above.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: LP on June 02, 2024, 12:31:50 pm
Look, i've got nothing against him personally, and most of this should be directed at the match committee as much as anything, but he simply isn't performing up to the standard of a 28yo (soon to be 29yo).
Yes, it seems some are taking the criticism like it's a personal attack, I don't get it as to me it's just a matter of form.
On the MC issue I don't even get why we keep starting Carroll as Sub while Fantasia's output is so low game after game, or why we dropped Binns after hardly any opportunity. Surely our MC aren't suggesting Fantasia is a deeper runner than Binns, from what I've seen Binns is right up there with Ollie Hollands?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: northernblue on June 02, 2024, 12:35:06 pm
I guess that given his output (apparently) is so low he’ll be replaced by a player who’s kicking the door down in the twos… what’s his name again ? Help me here.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: LP on June 02, 2024, 12:39:29 pm
I guess that given his output (apparently) is so low he’ll be replaced by a player who’s kicking the door down in the twos… what’s his name again ? Help me here.
That's arguing that a promotion has to be deserved, but the flip side of that is surely that retention should also be deserved?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: kruddler on June 02, 2024, 01:08:48 pm
I guess that given his output (apparently) is so low he’ll be replaced by a player who’s kicking the door down in the twos… what’s his name again ? Help me here.
Lets try it another way.
Who is Fantasia outperforming in the 1's right now?
If we get a player back from injury, who deserves to be dropped before we get to Fantasia?
Now, back to playing your game. 1. Durdin.....he is younger, output is the same, get games into the younger blokes. 2. Binns....certainly knocking the door down, plays a different position, but we can move the team around to accomodate him if we want too. 3. Cottrell, Motlop, Martin, Cuningham.....first one fit gets back in the side. 4. Moir....seems to be struggling in the 2's. Reckon he is the type of player that lifts with the talent around him. I would like to see him get at least 1 game this year, why not now?
So you tell me, what have we got to lose by playing one of the above?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: DJC on June 02, 2024, 01:23:02 pm
Fans wouldn't accept Lang or O'Brien not entering the fray, why do they accept Fantasia?
I mustn’t be paying as much attention as you because I can’t recall Fantasia (or O’Brien for that matter - I don’t remember how Lang played) “not entering the fray”. I have noticed him and many of his teammates no doubt following instructions and staying outside the contest to receive a pass or disrupt an opposition play.
I suspect that a player who didn’t enter the fray when required would lose Vossy’s respect and would struggle to get a game in the Magoos.
Fantasia is well-entrenched among the bottom 3 or 4 players in our 23 and probably wouldn’t be picked if we had more fit players to choose from. The fact of the matter is that he is in our best available 23 for now and is doing the job set for him.
For some fans, that makes him an ideal whipping boy 🤣
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: northernblue on June 02, 2024, 01:41:19 pm
On the MC issue I don't even get why we keep starting Carroll as Sub while Fantasia's output is so low, or why we dropped Binns after hardly any opportunity. Surely our MC aren't suggestingf Fantasia is a deeper runner than Binns?
Ahh, we finally have an honest answer… We the great unwashed have no idea, yet there is a method to the selection and it may just be that he’s a mature body with a good footy IQ of games and patterns. Maybe with the form and availability of anyone that view will change but until then he’s performing something better than anyone else is expected to able to do.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Lods on June 02, 2024, 01:47:50 pm
I was having a read of the "Welcome to Carlton- Orazio Fantasia" thread.
Most of the concern seemed to be more centered around his durability. Could we get him on the park and keep him on it? Well with 9 games so that doesn't seem to be the issue. So it's more about form
Lots of varying opinions as to the value of the pick-up.
@Kruddler....you definitely weren't a fan posting this a day or two before we picked him up. :D :D
Quote
Reply #65 – October 30, 2023, 01:56:22 pm It means we have a day or so to break his legs so we don't sign him. >:D
Too much? :-[
Probably a bit much ;) :)) :)) You sure there's not just a little bit of bias in your assessment ;) :D
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: kruddler on June 02, 2024, 02:02:31 pm
I was having a read of the "Welcome to Carlton- Orazio Fantasia" thread.
Most of the concern seemed to be more centered around his durability. Could we get him on the park and keep him on it? Well with 9 games so that doesn't seem to be the issue. So it's more about form
Lots of varying opinions as to the value of the pick-up.
@Kruddler....you definitely weren't a fan posting this a day or two before we picked him up. :D :D
Probably a bit much ;) :)) :)) You sure there's not just a little bit of bias in your assessment ;) :D
Ha Ha.
Go back to the best 22 thread (part 1?) and i think you'll find i backed the MC in and had him in my best 22. ;)
My issue with 'players' have always been around the role they play when picked. Not themselves as people. I've been banging the same drum for half a decade or more in regards to picking up a key back (or 3) until we get one that can perform the role long term.
My issue is when we ignore that and take players in positions NOT in need. Fantasia falls into that category. We delisted Honey and picked up Fantasia. What has he brought us that Honey wasn't? People were very critical of Honey, to the point they pushed him out the door, yet same people are sticking by him. Why?
We recruited small runners in the off-season. We recruited a small runner in the MSD We will recruit 2 small runners in the upcoming ND with the campo twins. THIS is my frustration with the recruitment of Fantasia.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Lods on June 02, 2024, 02:24:30 pm
The first issue we faced with Fantasia was getting him on the park. Having achieved that, it's keeping him on the park. The next is how much he can contribute, and that may need to be assessed with some time in VFL as well as AFL
It's nothing special at the moment, but we are only halfway through the year.
I said earlier that I noticed him more on Thursday than in previous games but That may be as good as it gets or...
It may be he's gradually working his way into the team structure and into some form. Or it may just fizzle out and see him play the year in the VFL.
Pressure for his spot needs to come from below, and 15 minutes into the first at VFL level today there not much coming.
(Getting better now)
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Thryleon on June 02, 2024, 02:49:55 pm
Jack Carroll the only one truly staking a claim.
Getting spanked by the bottom side with a wind advantage.
I dont think you can read much into this for any player.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: madbluboy on June 02, 2024, 02:52:32 pm
Fantasia got 20+ touches and a goal in the VFL. Big gap between the two comps.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: kruddler on June 02, 2024, 06:38:33 pm
Carroll got 32 touches today Billy Wilson got 24 today Binns got 21 and a goal today Durdin got 15 and a goal
All are younger and have performed to the same level as Fantasia (or better)
Carroll had 2 tackles in 19% TOG on Thursday and backed it up today Fantasia had 2 tackles in 55% TOG on Thursday
But do they run the “right patterns” ? Do they clog the oppositions midfield when we need to defend and present an option/get out of the way when attacking ? I think there’s too much micro managing on what Orazio/Durdin don’t do (kick goals)
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Thryleon on June 02, 2024, 07:44:31 pm
Carroll was playing inside the contest but his opponent ran off him all day and when the bullants won the contest they were damaging.
He was playing like cripps without the ability to win the midfield battle.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: madbluboy on June 02, 2024, 08:28:10 pm
Carroll got 32 touches today Billy Wilson got 24 today Binns got 21 and a goal today Durdin got 15 and a goal
All are younger and have performed to the same level as Fantasia (or better)
Carroll had 2 tackles in 19% TOG on Thursday and backed it up today Fantasia had 2 tackles in 55% TOG on Thursday
Did you watch the game?
Carroll was OK but his opponent touched him up. No-one else is putting their hand up for a game so Carroll probably stays in the 23.
Binns is probably most able to do the role Fantasia is currently doing. He has the tank for it but he hasn’t yet developed a defensive side to his game, is too easily brushed aside, and his disposal could be better.
Wilson shows promise but he’s a small defender who needs time to develop and would be exploited at AFL level.
Durdin got a bit of the ball today but not nearly as much as he should have. A disappointing, poor effort from a bloke who should be fighting for a spot in our AFL team.
Fantasia is safe … for now.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: kruddler on June 02, 2024, 10:57:42 pm
As you and others pointed out, stat's don't tell the whole picture....which was my point. Fantasia simply doesn't do enough. So he got some more stat's, doesn't change the fact he does that do enough.
For the record, I watched half the vfl game today.
I find it difficult doing comparisons between vfl and afl since vfl is played in howling wind on a second rate surface with second rate umpires and second rate teamates and the afl is played in near perfect conditions on near perfect grounds....
Give some of the kids a chance to play in afl conditions and their output will magically improve.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: DJC on June 02, 2024, 11:43:27 pm
Give some of the kids a chance to play in afl conditions and their output will magically improve.
Give our kids a game in the AFL before they’re ready and we’ll probably throw the game and set their careers back. We didn’t see much magical improvement from Samo, LOB, Polson, and Dow!
Of course, the MC doesn’t just go on key match day indicators but takes into account what happens at training … and while we don’t know how Fantasia is going versus Durdin, etc, team selection gives us a fair idea.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Thryleon on June 03, 2024, 12:08:59 pm
You know, I'm not against anyone getting a game anywhere at any time, but in the VFL the bullants vs the blues was the equivalent of West Coast or the current Richmond seniors vs North Melbourne. Both teams have 1 win for the year.
The AFL listed players (all of them) were borderline competitive at this level and guys like Cahill, Ramshaw, Jean-Luc Vellissaris, McMahon were the ones who were the better of the lot playing.
Carroll the only one truly knocking on the door and even he wasnt above the standard.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 03, 2024, 01:11:09 pm
You know, I'm not against anyone getting a game anywhere at any time, but in the VFL the bullants vs the blues was the equivalent of West Coast or the current Richmond seniors vs North Melbourne. Both teams have 1 win for the year.
The AFL listed players (all of them) were borderline competitive at this level and guys like Cahill, Ramshaw, Jean-Luc Vellissaris, McMahon were the ones who were the better of the lot playing.
Carroll the only one truly knocking on the door and even he wasnt above the standard.
Reality is the Bullants are very ordinary but they still had more standout players imho. eg The big kid Elliott , son of Matthew the cricketer is clearly AFL bound and looks to have more potential than Lemmey, McMahon etc. I thought our VFL players were better than the AFL players with the exception of Carroll who played wide of his opponents and got plenty of ball but for some reason I remain 50/50 on his future as a senior player.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: DJC on June 03, 2024, 01:46:26 pm
Reality is the Bullants are very ordinary but they still had more standout players imho. eg The big kid Elliott , son of Matthew the cricketer is clearly AFL bound and looks to have more potential than Lemmey, McMahon etc. I thought our VFL players were better than the AFL players with the exception of Carroll who played wide of his opponents and got plenty of ball but for some reason I remain 50/50 on his future as a senior player.
Carroll has to perform like that in every VFL game he plays and has to show more when he's in the AFL squad. It can't be easy coming on as the sub but, if that's his lot, he has to make the most of it.
It's hard to know what to make of our VFL side and the AFL listed players running around in it. I suspect that it's lacking too much talent and experience and those blokes with a bit of ability are being overwhelmed. I've said it before but I would have loved to see Ed Curnow as captain of our VFL side, even if for just one season.
Anyway, this is a discussion for a VFL thread.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Thryleon on June 03, 2024, 02:39:49 pm
Reality is the Bullants are very ordinary but they still had more standout players imho. eg The big kid Elliott , son of Matthew the cricketer is clearly AFL bound and looks to have more potential than Lemmey, McMahon etc. I thought our VFL players were better than the AFL players with the exception of Carroll who played wide of his opponents and got plenty of ball but for some reason I remain 50/50 on his future as a senior player.
Jorgensen was very impressive, as was Cahill and Ramshaw too. Lemmey wasnt terrible, but again, given the quality of opponent should have been well on top. Mirkov would be the only one who could potentially give us something at AFL level because he is an awkward size and shape, but I would rather see him against a mason cox than anyone else in the AFL.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Professer E on June 03, 2024, 03:09:04 pm
The likes of Lemmy is well into his second second season and shown 7/8ths of F-all. Others like Cowan and Cinch have come on a lot, but I get the feeling that their improvement has no come via time in the twos
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: PaulP on June 03, 2024, 03:48:41 pm
Coaches' votes :
9 Sam Walsh (CARL) 7 Patrick Cripps (CARL) 6 Jason Horne-Francis (PORT) 6 Tom De Koning (CARL) 1 Aliir Aliir (PORT) 1 Nicholas Newman (CARL)
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 03, 2024, 07:56:40 pm
Not sure if this was discussed but
https://bit.ly/4bZFMPl
The bloke can coach
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: madbluboy on June 03, 2024, 07:58:52 pm
Yeah I saw it yesterday. Masterful coaching.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: kruddler on June 03, 2024, 10:41:19 pm
Smart coaching by vossy.
However....I'd like to see this kind of 'genius' against a team he didnt spend 7 years at coaching previously.
Vossy has been picked apart a couple times this year by tactics and it's good he got one back, but perhaps he knew how they'd play because he was one of the people who set it up while he was there.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: LP on June 04, 2024, 11:16:51 am
Vossy has been picked apart a couple times this year by tactics and it's good he got one back, but perhaps he knew how they'd play because he was one of the people who set it up while he was there.
It's a bit subjective to assert the blame for some events are coaching, we might think that is the case but we can't be sure, it's quite possibly some cases were a players failure to follow or execute instructions.
All we can say is "if" the tactics were the result of coaching that would / might be a coaching fail.
Last Thursday a lot of us rated the team an "A", I did as well, but I also stated in another thread I thought it was a poor night for both coaches. Neither coach seemed to react well to the opposition tactics, but was the perceived response poor performance or was it deliberately keeping some powder dry for later in the season?
Team tactics are a bit like a Trojan Horse, you don't want to open the lid too early.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: DJC on June 04, 2024, 12:18:31 pm
I'm pretty sure that it was Brad Scott, while on his sabbatical with the AFL, who explained that AFL coaches can do little to change the course of a game. He made it clear that games are won and lost in the week leading up to the game when tactics and match ups are decided. The introduction of the 6-6-6 rule and restrictions on runners have made it even harder for coaches to influence the outcome of games by positional or tactical changes made during the game. Of course, if the coach doesn't have the cattle, or the cattle are out of sorts, nothing the coach can do will affect the outcome.
Winning games of footy starts in the off season when the coaches review what did and didn't work in the previous season and adjust the game plan, structures and personnel accordingly The fine tuning for each particular opponent is critical, get the match ups and tactics wrong and there's no coming back.
Before and during the game, the coaches focus on getting the right balance between arousal and anxiety, reinforcing good play and correcting errors. Half time gives the line coaches and the players the opportunity to clarify structures and roles and, from time to time, adjust match ups. Rousing speeches, sprays, changing the game plan, and moving the magnets aren't part of the process.
Vossy's coaching hasn't been picked apart but we did get hammered by a much better team and we've lost some close ones that could have gone either way. Vossy's knowledge of Port Adelaide from four seasons ago would have played little part in our preparation for the game. Our opposition analysts would have provided much better information about Port's current game style and that would have formed the basis for our tactics and match ups.
Then there's the selection moves that work out and give us an advantage that may fly under the opposition radar; Williams to defensive half forward, Cincotta to run with midfielder and Cowan to half back.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: LP on June 04, 2024, 01:00:01 pm
Coaches have to be reactive, Carlton should know this better than most, especially those alive and watching in 1970!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: northernblue on June 04, 2024, 01:04:07 pm
Yes, 54 years ago, I remember like it was yesterday…👼🏼
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: DJC on June 04, 2024, 01:21:10 pm
I'm pretty sure that it was Brad Scott, while on his sabbatical with the AFL, who explained that AFL coaches can do little to change the course of a game. He made it clear that games are won and lost in the week leading up to the game when tactics and match ups are decided. The introduction of the 6-6-6 rule and restrictions on runners have made it even harder for coaches to influence the outcome of games by positional or tactical changes made during the game. Of course, if the coach doesn't have the cattle, or the cattle are out of sorts, nothing the coach can do will affect the outcome.
Winning games of footy starts in the off season when the coaches review what did and didn't work in the previous season and adjust the game plan, structures and personnel accordingly The fine tuning for each particular opponent is critical, get the match ups and tactics wrong and there's no coming back.
Before and during the game, the coaches focus on getting the right balance between arousal and anxiety, reinforcing good play and correcting errors. Half time gives the line coaches and the players the opportunity to clarify structures and roles and, from time to time, adjust match ups. Rousing speeches, sprays, changing the game plan, and moving the magnets aren't part of the process.
Vossy's coaching hasn't been picked apart but we did get hammered by a much better team and we've lost some close ones that could have gone either way. Vossy's knowledge of Port Adelaide from four seasons ago would have played little part in our preparation for the game. Our opposition analysts would have provided much better information about Port's current game style and that would have formed the basis for our tactics and match ups.
Then there's the selection moves that work out and give us an advantage that may fly under the opposition radar; Williams to defensive half forward, Cincotta to run with midfielder and Cowan to half back.
Im inclined to mark the Sydney week as a week where illness may have effected the whole squad.
We haven't played collectively that bad in a long time for such a long period in one match.
Coaching might play a part in that, but is anyone truly surprised to see Sydney with John Longmire in charge from Paul Roos before him with a continuity of message, method, and the capability of handpicking players to play the way he likes during that tenure, much more well drilled than the schitzophrenic approach to player and management that has existed at Carlton?
There is a strong positive correlation between coaches in charge at clubs and their clubs performance over time. The ones that have changed coaches more, have suffered from poor coaches, and poor structures, and its arguable that they may not have performed as badly with less chopping and changing.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: LP on June 04, 2024, 02:01:24 pm
Im inclined to mark the Sydney week as a week where illness may have effected the whole squad.
There were a whole bunch of things that week that could have contributed, sometimes teams just have an off day, even in 95 when we dominated we had a couple of bad losses and a couple of lucky escapes. People tend to forget the bad and remember the good.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 12 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Port Adelaide
Post by: RiverRat on June 04, 2024, 05:29:33 pm