Carlton Supporters Club

Princes Park => Robert Heatley Stand => Topic started by: crashlander on June 28, 2024, 10:07:27 am

Title: VFL 2024 Rd 14: Carlton vs Richmond at Richmond
Post by: crashlander on June 28, 2024, 10:07:27 am
Set down for Sunday at 12:00 at Richmond's little ground.
They're 10th and we're 21st, so we have to go into the game as underdogs.
Not sure what we mere supporters can do for us: we've shown so little this season.
Title: Re: VFL 2024 Rd 14: Carlton vs Richmond at Richmond
Post by: crashlander on June 29, 2024, 07:14:23 pm
Our line-up:

B:  [38] Sam Durdin,  [22] Caleb Marchbank,  [33] Lewis Young
HB:  [74] Logan Prout,  [41] Domanic Akuei,  [55] Lachlan Young
C:  [54] Ned Cahill,  [25] Jaxon Binns,  [28] David Cuningham
HF:  [43] Ashton Moir,  [34] Rob Monahan,  [3] Jesse Motlop
F:  [19] Corey Durdin,  [31] Harry Lemmey,  [45] Alex Mirkov
R:  [27] Marc Pittonet,  [36] Cooper Lord,  [16] Jack Carroll
Int:  [51] Heath Ramshaw,  [50] Zavier Maher,  [52] Liam McMahon,  [77] Will White,  [70] Darcy Hogg,  [64] Archie Stevens,  [62] Hayden Gill
Em:  [66] Luca Goonan,  [58] Michael Lewis,  [63] Kristian Ferronato,  [57] Luke Nelson,  [69] Hugo Nosiara

To be honest, I'm not sure that the number of AFL listed players is helping us. Too many of them aren't doing much. Monahan looks like he has a future, but he gets maybe 5 - 10 possessions per game at the moment and none when it counts. Akuei is not doing a lot. Mirkov continues to offer very little other than his taps. Lemmey is not getting much pill and neither is Moir. That's a lot of a team to be carrying.
But then, few of our VFL boys stand up when it is counted. Lachie Young isn't a bad player, but he goes missing when he's needed. The others are not mature bodies: we have very few of those.
And, we lack leadership very badly.
Title: Re: VFL 2024 Rd 14: Carlton vs Richmond at Richmond
Post by: blueianh on June 30, 2024, 12:44:38 pm
Down 14 to 19 at QT

Who slipped Aliir Aliir into Dom Akuei's jumper?  He looks a footballer for the first time ever. 

No idea from the team about the last kick inside 50, intercepted time after time.  Cooper Lord busy looks an industrious footballer but I think he lacks hurt factor.  Should be a valuable 2nds player but I don't she firsts potential except maybe as a two-way player who brings lots of defensive pressure.  And that is a type of player we could do with.  Those 2 have been our best I think along with Cunners who is easing back into it nicely and Binns who is always busy but again his possessions don't hurt the opposition much.  The 2 Durdins doing OK but neither screaming "pick me pick me" for the seniors.  Logan Prout probably the  pick of the VFL boys.  Meanwhile Moir was I think touchless and Monahan only the 1 disposal.

Mirkov dominating the hitouts 11 (plus Akuei has 2) to Richmond stotal of 4.

At this atage only Cunners maybe pressing a case for elevation.
Title: Re: VFL 2024 Rd 14: Carlton vs Richmond at Richmond
Post by: blueianh on June 30, 2024, 01:17:12 pm
Wet Q2 the Tigers handled better.  Goalless quarter for us down 16-35 at half time.  With the weather and Tigers running the ball in more Akuei's intercept opportunities dried up, but he is still one of our better players.  Big Durds stood up in defence, Lord Binns and Cunners also handy, Cunners more class than quality.
Title: Re: VFL 2024 Rd 14: Carlton vs Richmond at Richmond
Post by: blueianh on June 30, 2024, 02:09:02 pm
Down 2 goals at 3QT 43-55.



Cooper Lord continuing to be very busy, may be our best.  Binns busy as usual.  Big Durds holding strong in defence.  Jack Carroll started getting busy in Q3.  No-one really putting their hand up for seniors, Cunners looks to still need some more miles in the legs before being ready for consideration.  Game still in the balance.
Title: Re: VFL 2024 Rd 14: Carlton vs Richmond at Richmond
Post by: LP on June 30, 2024, 02:35:08 pm
Cooper Lord continuing to be very busy, may be our best. 
Looks OK around stoppages, but not as much pace as I thought.
Title: Re: VFL 2024 Rd 14: Carlton vs Richmond at Richmond
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 30, 2024, 02:57:17 pm
Lord is a handy type but like Binns a lightly built player who needs more size to play senior footy but he can find the footy which is important.
Carroll and McMahon to me are the standouts in this team, more class and composure than the others and more senior ready if in McMahons case he ever gets drafted.
Mirkov again won his fair share of hitouts but I wasnt impressed....
Sam Durdin was well beaten by a young kid called Gray and Lewis Young looks disinterested. Marchbank unsighted and Cuningham showed glimpses of form but faded. Moir kicked a goal but was unsighted otherwise.
Lemmey later and Akuei early showed some good form but dont play four quarters...
Title: Re: VFL 2024 Rd 14: Carlton vs Richmond at Richmond
Post by: Baggers on June 30, 2024, 03:23:02 pm
Bearing in mind that Cooper is a baby in our system, the signs are good. A strong preseason and who knows... important thing is, the potential is there.
Title: Re: VFL 2024 Rd 14: Carlton vs Richmond at Richmond
Post by: blueianh on June 30, 2024, 04:04:02 pm
Lord is a handy type but like Binns a lightly built player who needs more size to play senior footy but he can find the footy which is important.
Carroll and McMahon to me are the standouts in this team, more class and composure than the others and more senior ready if in McMahons case he ever gets drafted.
Mirkov again won his fair share of hitouts but I wasnt impressed....
Sam Durdin was well beaten by a young kid called Gray and Lewis Young looks disinterested. Marchbank unsighted and Cuningham showed glimpses of form but faded. Moir kicked a goal but was unsighted otherwise.
Lemmey later and Akuei early showed some good form but dont play four quarters...

Like McMahon generally speaking but didn't think he showed out particularly this week.  Couple of goals, only 11 disposals and 3 marks but in fairness the conditions weren't suited to big guys and he didn't get many decent looks at it.

More generally, they ran over us in the end a 6 goal loss.  On the positive side Akuei early and Lemmey late looked bona fide AFL players.  Probably too late for Dom, sadly, but early days for Harry and I wouldn't be writing him off. 

Cooper Lord was very busy and I like his 2 way running.  Not sure about his hurt factor, but love his inside and defensive work.  Should be very valuable at 2nds level and may bring a point of difference in the firsts with his defensive side.  Early days but worth keeping an eye on.  Not in firsts discussions yet I would have thought. 

Carroll and Lemmey came home with a wet sail and showed AFL traits but the former might struggle to oust any incumbent in his role and the latter still a ways off ready but if replicates that sort of performance he puts himself in the frame either as a forward relief ruckman or if either of Charlie or Harry become unavailable.  Binns again very busy and keeps pressing his case for a shot in the firsts.  Mirkov dominated the taps as you would expect but nowhere near pressing his case for retention on the list much less elevation for a senior game.  Cunners was good on limited (and I presume managed) minutes but not ready to elevate yet.  Other than that big Durds was serviceable and could come in at a pinch but again he isn't outing anyone at the moment.  Youngs stats read OK but he was pretty ordinary to my mind, likewise Marchbank is not showing much reason to consider rushing him back.  We know however he is a highly regarded player internally.  Little Durds looks to have done the shoulder again and 4 disposal games from Monahan and Moir speak for themselves.  I think that is all our senior/rookie listed guys.  As for the VFL listed and top-up guys Prout and Ferronato were the standout to my eye.



All in all no-one demanding a spot in the firsts but a few who could step in to cover injury/suspension/workload management issues that might arise.
Title: Re: VFL 2024 Rd 14: Carlton vs Richmond at Richmond
Post by: Blue Moon on June 30, 2024, 10:04:15 pm
We were very top heavy. Cuningham half a game, Motlop not at all and Wilson out really limited our run. Liked Lemmey and like it when Akuei is on the ball. They should try playing him on the wing. Winning the Reserves has never been the priority at Carlton it has always been about developing players for the firsts. I don't think there is much future in Big Durdin. Pretty disappointing end result but I would rather win by 10 goals in the AFL than win by six in the VFL.
Title: Re: VFL 2024 Rd 14: Carlton vs Richmond at Richmond
Post by: northernblue on June 30, 2024, 10:33:28 pm
We were very top heavy. Cuningham half a game, Motlop not at all and Wilson out really limited our run. Liked Lemmey and like it when Akuei is on the ball. They should try playing him on the wing. Winning the Reserves has never been the priority at Carlton it has always been about developing players for the firsts. I don't think there is much future in Big Durdin. Pretty disappointing end result but I would rather win by 10 goals in the AFL than win by six in the VFL.

I read what you’re saying but if not big durds, who covers if Weitering gets hit by a bus ?
No one IS Weiters replacement, but we need someone of a similar physical build to play in his position with help from others…
Title: Re: VFL 2024 Rd 14: Carlton vs Richmond at Richmond
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 30, 2024, 11:13:53 pm
I read what you’re saying but if not big durds, who covers if Weitering gets hit by a bus ?
No one IS Weiters replacement, but we need someone of a similar physical build to play in his position with help from others…
We need to recruit a player like Blight who played his first game today for Richmond and looked the part....they wont be Weitering in the short term but they can learn from him if we get that player sooner than later.
Sam Durdin is a good clubman but has his limitations as he showed today and doesnt have any upside. He had four kicked on him by a kid called Campbell Gray who was the Tigers second mid season rookie pick from Essendons VFL team and Id be letting Sam go at seasons end if we can get a younger State League CHB with size.
Title: Re: VFL 2024 Rd 14: Carlton vs Richmond at Richmond
Post by: Blue Moon on July 01, 2024, 10:40:26 am
We didn't have Weitering early in the year and Durdin didn't play. We have young and Marchbank playing down back so I would say it would be one of them. I am not having a go at Durdin but I think it is time to move on. I don't think he is going to get any better.
Title: Re: VFL 2024 Rd 14: Carlton vs Richmond at Richmond
Post by: LP on July 01, 2024, 11:39:32 am
We need to recruit a player like Blight who played his first game today for Richmond and looked the part....they wont be Weitering in the short term but they can learn from him if we get that player sooner than later.
Sam Durdin is a good clubman but has his limitations as he showed today and doesnt have any upside. He had four kicked on him by a kid called Campbell Gray who was the Tigers second mid season rookie pick from Essendons VFL team and Id be letting Sam go at seasons end if we can get a younger State League CHB with size.
It's too early to go the crow on the viability of MSD candidates, they are newbies and in the short term they live in a honeymoon period until opponents have collected enough information on their habits.
Title: Re: VFL 2024 Rd 14: Carlton vs Richmond at Richmond
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 01, 2024, 12:04:59 pm
It's too early to go the crow on the viability of MSD candidates, they are newbies and in the short term they live in a honeymoon period until opponents have collected enough information on their habits.

Point is S Durdin isn't the answer and we should be looking for an apprentice for Weitering now. If he gets injured and we have nothing suitable to bring in as cover we can probably forget about winning a GF.Recruiting a player like Lord is ok but not a high priority Imho.
Title: Re: VFL 2024 Rd 14: Carlton vs Richmond at Richmond
Post by: LP on July 01, 2024, 12:13:55 pm
Point is S Durdin isn't the answer and we should be looking for an apprentice for Weitering now. If he gets injured and we have nothing suitable to bring in as cover we can probably forget about winning a GF.Recruiting a player like Lord is ok but not a high priority Imho.
Maybe, I'm not sure it's cut and dry.

AFL depends on systems of organisation, you might be better off with a player who knows the system ahead of a player who has individual ability but little knowledge. I suspect this is why Fantasia kept getting a game before the weekend's gold strike.

Perhaps another of our own situations is a similar scenario, Fogarty. I suspect 9 out of 10 would have Motlop ahead on ability and potential, but as a role player Fogarty is such a lock at the moment, so much so it's blokes like Owies, Williams and Fantasia who I think are at greater risk.
Title: Re: VFL 2024 Rd 14: Carlton vs Richmond at Richmond
Post by: DJC on July 01, 2024, 12:41:42 pm
We didn't have Weitering early in the year and Durdin didn't play. We have young and Marchbank playing down back so I would say it would be one of them. I am not having a go at Durdin but I think it is time to move on. I don't think he is going to get any better.

Sam wasn't available - suspension and injury. 

He is on a par with Young and could do a reasonable job if required.  He's cheap too.

By all means add a young KPD to the list but you have to keep injury cover until they're ready to step up ... in a year or two.
Title: Re: VFL 2024 Rd 14: Carlton vs Richmond at Richmond
Post by: LP on July 01, 2024, 01:31:35 pm
Sam wasn't available - suspension and injury. 

He is on a par with Young and could do a reasonable job if required.  He's cheap too.

By all means add a young KPD to the list but you have to keep injury cover until they're ready to step up ... in a year or two.
I think Sam Durdin is a better ball user than Young, not sure who out of Young and S.Durdin is the best fit besides McGovern and Kemp if Weiters is missing. Maybe Marchbank is the best choice if fit.
Title: Re: VFL 2024 Rd 14: Carlton vs Richmond at Richmond
Post by: DJC on July 01, 2024, 01:58:39 pm
I think Sam Durdin is a better ball user than Young, not sure who out of Young and S.Durdin is the best fit besides McGovern and Kemp if Weiters is missing. Maybe Marchbank is the best choice if fit.

It depends on who the opposition is.  Marchy's probably a better bet against someone like Ugle-Hagan, while Nige would go better against Hogan.
Title: Re: VFL 2024 Rd 14: Carlton vs Richmond at Richmond
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 01, 2024, 02:06:37 pm
I think Sam Durdin is a better ball user than Young, not sure who out of Young and S.Durdin is the best fit besides McGovern and Kemp if Weiters is missing. Maybe Marchbank is the best choice if fit.
Young and S.Durdin struggle vs kids from the burbs in the VFL, Marchbank isnt big enough(I know you think size doesnt matter😉 ) imo. If I had to make a choice it would be playing/keeping Young as he showed in his first year with us he can play decent football, as I have said many times I would love to know what has gone wrong with him and get it fixed but we cant keep hoping he will turn it around and need to keep moving forward and build depth by adding another KP or two to have some cover.
Title: Re: VFL 2024 Rd 14: Carlton vs Richmond at Richmond
Post by: DJC on July 01, 2024, 03:12:57 pm
Young and S.Durdin struggle vs kids from the burbs in the VFL, Marchbank isnt big enough(I know you think size doesnt matter😉 ) imo. If I had to make a choice it would be playing/keeping Young as he showed in his first year with us he can play decent football, as I have said many times I would love to know what has gone wrong with him and get it fixed but we cant keep hoping he will turn it around and need to keep moving forward and build depth by adding another KP or two to have some cover.

Weiters and McGovern would struggle with the ball coming in that fast and that often.  Team defence isn't really a feature of our VFL team.
Title: Re: VFL 2024 Rd 14: Carlton vs Richmond at Richmond
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 01, 2024, 03:52:26 pm
Weiters and McGovern would struggle with the ball coming in that fast and that often.  Team defence isn't really a feature of our VFL team.
Considering we have four experienced players who have played senior AFL footy....ie the Youngs, Marchbank and S Durdin vs the likes of unknowns like Gray, Joel Garner, Steely Greene, Sam Davidson and a dud like Noah Cumberland thats a bit sad they couldnt organise themselves a bit better.
Tigers only had four more I50's and clearances were fairly even too, our best defender was Akuei which is great for his career but probably tells you a story on the others and that experienced backline should be a strength at VFL level and able to cope with a VFL midpack team like Richmond but as we saw vs the lowly Bullants it wasnt much better.
Title: Re: VFL 2024 Rd 14: Carlton vs Richmond at Richmond
Post by: Thryleon on July 01, 2024, 10:25:29 pm
Weiters and McGovern would struggle with the ball coming in that fast and that often.  Team defence isn't really a feature of our VFL team.
Not sure about that djc.  They'd have a picnic and probably organise the troops better.  I've seen weiters play vfl once.  Something astonishing like 25 intercept marks vs Frankston was the statistic

Even orazio got leather poisoning at vfl level. It's why it's so frustrating seeing a team full of afl listed players have effectively no idea.
Title: Re: VFL 2024 Rd 14: Carlton vs Richmond at Richmond
Post by: DJC on July 01, 2024, 10:57:27 pm
Not sure about that djc.  They'd have a picnic and probably organise the troops better.  I've seen weiters play vfl once.  Something astonishing like 25 intercept marks vs Frankston was the statistic

Even orazio got leather poisoning at vfl level. It's why it's so frustrating seeing a team full of afl listed players have effectively no idea.

Good point Thry, Weiters could probably cope with anything a VFL side could produce.  However, Sam Durdin and Lewis Young would probably play much better with teammates like Saad, Newman, McGovern alongside them.

While our VFL side may have plenty of AFL listed players, only Marchbank, Young, Durdin X 2 and Cuningham have decent AFL experience; Moir, Binns, Lemmey, Lord, Mirkov, Monahan and Akuei have one game between them.
Title: Re: VFL 2024 Rd 14: Carlton vs Richmond at Richmond
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 01, 2024, 11:07:53 pm
Good point Thry, Weiters could probably cope with anything a VFL side could produce.  However, Sam Durdin and Lewis Young would probably play much better with teammates like Saad, Newman, McGovern alongside them.

While our VFL side may have plenty of AFL listed players, only Marchbank, Young, Durdin X 2 and Cuningham have decent AFL experience; Moir, Binns, Lemmey, Lord, Mirkov, Monahan and Akuei have one game between them.
Lachie Young has 47 senior games, thats a very experienced backline.
Tigers had Cumberland with 20 odd games down forward and the rest of the forwards were kids...
Title: Re: VFL 2024 Rd 14: Carlton vs Richmond at Richmond
Post by: RiverRat on July 01, 2024, 11:11:44 pm

Who slipped Aliir Aliir into Dom Akuei's jumper?  He looks a footballer for the first time ever. 


Too true. 

I think the key factor was allowing him to play as a loose man, which enabled him to take quite a few uncontested marks, and/or in the ruck, where he had the spring to out-jump his opponent.
Title: Re: VFL 2024 Rd 14: Carlton vs Richmond at Richmond
Post by: Sub-Zero on July 03, 2024, 11:29:28 am
One of the real problem with Akuei's growth and development has been the fact that he's played back, forward, ruck, even the wing, and not been able to settle into a position. He's a slow burn type of player. He's gone to the back line and ruck for this year, what's his position? Perhaps keep playing him as a second ruck for the rest of the year? Arguably with O'Keeffe out of the side, it may have came out of necessity. But this means he doesn't play permanently as a defender. Still, it looks like he's really showing something there. If he keeps going the way he is in that role, then he's a real chance of becoming a category a rookie next year. Clearly he was going to take time to develop, but the signs are there that as a second ruck, he's showing some promise.
Title: Re: VFL 2024 Rd 14: Carlton vs Richmond at Richmond
Post by: blueianh on July 03, 2024, 08:42:54 pm
One of the real problem with Akuei's growth and development has been the fact that he's played back, forward, ruck, even the wing, and not been able to settle into a position. He's a slow burn type of player. He's gone to the back line and ruck for this year, what's his position? Perhaps keep playing him as a second ruck for the rest of the year? Arguably with O'Keeffe out of the side, it may have came out of necessity. But this means he doesn't play permanently as a defender. Still, it looks like he's really showing something there. If he keeps going the way he is in that role, then he's a real chance of becoming a category a rookie next year. Clearly he was going to take time to develop, but the signs are there that as a second ruck, he's showing some promise.
I would love to see Dom show out enough to justify keeping, this game is the first I have seen him doing that.  But is it a outlier or the start of a breakthrough?  Prior to this game I had him out the door, it will take more like this week to save him but I'm rooting for him.