Carlton Supporters Club

Posted this in the 'in-game' thread.....
My changes for next week.....
Motlop -> Williams
Kennedy (sub) -> Pittonet
Hewett -> Cerra (sub)
Cuningham -> Cottrell.

So Fantasia was not the problem? ::)  ;D

O Hollands and Marchbank shouldn't escape scrutiny.

O Hollands and Marchbank shouldn't escape scrutiny.

So Fantasia was not the problem? ::)  ;D

Bigheads strike again !!

Pittonet - utter dud, get rid of him
Marchbank - never liked him and a huge liability, boot him out
Boyd - disposal was appalling and got found out tonite for being way too loose 
Williams - before getting injured, shirked it
Curnow - massively over-rated & unreliable
Cottrell - exposed at senior level

We have too many lemons and not enough 'tough as nails' types who dig in hard when it gets tough.

Dogs wanted that win from the first bounce & played like their season depended on it, once again our guys just went though the motions in the belief it was going to magically happen.

And as for some of the undisciplined free kicks we gave away .............. spare me !!

Herés a novel thought, how about some of our defenders try to punch & spoil ?? Two or three times our idiots tried to outmark them instead of opting for the smarter play, we are just too dumb at times.

When things are going our way we look great but when the opposition apply a lot of pressure we wilt. It happened last week and it happened again tonight, the opposition clubs have now worked us out.

I thought Ollie was OK, Marchbank looked off the pace, we missed McGovern.

Our record when McGovern or Saad are out it's horrendous, winning only 25% in their absence.

O Hollands and Marchbank shouldn't escape scrutiny.

Two rucks just seem to confuse the issue.

Dogs wanted that win from the first bounce & played like their season depended on it, once again our guys just went though the motions in the belief it was going to magically happen.

When things are going our way we look great but when the opposition apply a lot of pressure we wilt. It happened last week and it happened again tonight, the opposition clubs have now worked us out.

The ruck stuff is really just a correlation fans want to blame, it's a simple association to make, our Mids got better service this week, and we've still lost the midfield. We've only broke even in centre clearances yet Pitto and TDK gave 4 or 5 alone, English had none!

The spotlight should be on a few big names who are only playing sporadically at the moment, and the wasteful footy use.

Two rucks this year won 2 from 7. Could be coincidence but those are the figures.

Rnd 5; Lost Saad early, cost us dearly.
Rnd 7; Kicked 15-15 to lose to Handbaggers 18-10.
Rnd 8; Leading late, Walsh let Daicos run through a stoppage unchecked to score the winner.
Rnd 10; Smashed by Sydney with Grundy among the best.
Rnd 18; Lost to Bulldogs, English probably BoG.

The idea we could go with one ruck and compete against a rampant English with Darcy as the backup is somewhat bizarre. Pitto held his own at stoppages but didn't take a single mark which is costly, but he and TDK got 4 of our 13 centre clearances, Bulldogs had 13 centre clearances also but English got none. If we blame the rucks we are masking the problem.

Boyd couldn’t hit the side of a barn today.

Lots of spin there. Been crap for us for years. Never been great with 2 rucks.

Lots of spin there. Been crap for us for years. Never been great with 2 rucks.

Our strength is our pressure. When it is on no-one beats us. Playing 2 rucks detracts from that. Pitto v Hewitt, who is in the 2nds right now. Hewitt all day long.

Why does he always come with both barrells when we get beaten but never praises us after a good win??😕

Motlop isn't fast don't know why people think he is.

Motlop isn't fast don't know why people think he is.

Very disappointing game.

We had a ton to play and for 2 weeks we missed a massive chance to lock us in the top 4 and we failed both weeks.
To have a mid table team beat us effort wise when they were undermanned and in our captains big game was the most frustrating part. Was so annoyed with charlie playing selfishly again and newman sh1te me to tears and was undisciplined and dumb. Marchbank is way off the pace and looks completely unsure of himself. Theres others too that were very well beaten
I really thought these losses were behind us clearly not.
Its sydney then daylight unfortunately

The ruck stuff is really just a correlation fans want to blame, it's a simple association to make, our Mids got better service this week, and we've still lost the midfield. We've only broke even in centre clearances yet Pitto and TDK gave 4 or 5 alone, English had none!

Rnd 5; Lost Saad early, cost us dearly.
Rnd 7; Kicked 15-15 to lose to Handbaggers 18-10.
Rnd 8; Leading late, Walsh let Daicos run through a stoppage unchecked to score the winner.
Rnd 10; Smashed by Sydney with Grundy among the best.
Rnd 18; Lost to Bulldogs, English probably BoG.

The idea we could go with one ruck and compete against a rampant English with Darcy as a backup is somewhat bizarre, so fans think less ruck capacity is a win? Pitto held his own at stoppages but didn't take a single mark which is costly, but he and TDK got 4 of our 13 centre clearances, Bulldogs had 13 centre clearances also, but English got none. If we blame the rucks we are masking the problem.

2 wins 5 losses with TDK and Pittonet playing. It's over.

Hewett was dropped for team balance. How's that going?

It's not Pitto - it's team composition and balance. We lacked run and putting pressure from high half forwards because we always one big bloke on the bench for half a game that cant do what high half forwards do.

Forget the ruck discussion.  Our strength is winning and bash and crash on the inside and we got hammered at it again this week by the dogs.

Are we more likely to win the bash and crash when we have 4 midfielders there (with cripps or kennedy rucking) or when we have 3 and a ruck.

Our rucks are half decent with getting clearances themselves, however I'd prefer the other blokes to dish it forward as we are more likely to hit a target that way.

We are handicapping ourself by playing 2 rucks.

Are we more likely to win the bash and crash when we have 4 midfielders there (with cripps or kennedy rucking) or when we have 3 and a ruck.

Our rucks are half decent with getting clearances themselves, however I'd prefer the other blokes to dish it forward as we are more likely to hit a target that way.

We are handicapping ourself by playing 2 rucks.

Forget the ruck discussion.  Our strength is winning and bash and crash on the inside and we got hammered at it again this week by the dogs.

What we need is another tall who is that dour type who just gets the job done and doesn't need to be a world beater just defensively dour.  Will aid weitering to get back to chopping the play off because our opposition stopped him by blocking his run at the ball drop and the umps let it go all day.

We've copped 100 points against two weeks running.  That's not a ruck problem that's a system problem.

System not hamstring by rucks.  Weitering needs help, Newman is getting attention and not chopping things off like he did, Kemp is man minding marchbank is a shadow, cowans opponents are getting loose and saad is not accountable.

What we need is another tall who is that dour type who just gets the job done and doesn't need to be a world beater just defensively dour.  Will aid weitering to get back to chopping the play off because our opposition stopped him by blocking his run at the ball drop and the umps let it go all day.

That and the fact that we were often under so much pressure in the middle it made life rough.

@Iaj, I'm not sure a wet night at the G is comparable to a dry deck at marvel.  Composure cost us more.

Melbourne still won with no rucks.

Also liked the Voss comments about a season long focus, fans are largely ignorant of those effects when they comment about MC issues.

2nd week in a row we sh*t the bed after qtr time when an opponent applied quick, relentless pressure - the formula to reduce us to clacker chasers for the day.
Team apology to Crippa.
Obvious passengers... Cottrell, O Hollands, Marchbank and Pitto.
Few blokes in the Magoos should be rubbing their hands together.
MC... wake up to yourselves.
Charlie... 3.7, speaks for itself.
Midfield, except for Crippa - terrible.
Devoid of authority and confidence.
Didn't at all look like a top 4 side.
Embarrassing.

Fans know that we should beat teams well below us on the ladder.

Anyone else feel we've got a bit 'lairy'.
I'm talking about things like underneath handballs or these overhead floaters without looking that hang in the air and miss the target as often as they hit it.

So even before we've played them once you declare us superior!

Things are not looking good at the moment. We could easily lose our next 3 out of four games. What has gone wrong recently? Have we been punching above our weight? We are not a real contender if we can’t beat GWS or the Bulldogs. I hope we are not just making up the numbers in the top 8. We have just exposed the fact that we are not a real threat. A very, very disappointing result. I didn’t watch the game to give a true evaluation, but I prefer that over watching what should have been an comfortable win. Very weak and poor result. Forget a flag this year with this application from the playing group.

We've copped 100 points against two weeks running.  That's not a ruck problem that's a system problem.

System not hamstring by rucks.  Weitering needs help, Newman is getting attention and not chopping things off like he did, Kemp is man minding marchbank is a shadow, cowans opponents are getting loose and saad is not accountable.

What we need is another tall who is that dour type who just gets the job done and doesn't need to be a world beater just defensively dour.  Will aid weitering to get back to chopping the play off because our opposition stopped him by blocking his run at the ball drop and the umps let it go all day. .

There are consistent calls for Cuningham to be brought into the side when fit.  But wouldn't he be in the same league as Fantasia?

He has shown that he has the skills to succeed but has he ever put in four quarters ?  My impression is that he has never given us more than one or two quarters in a game before disappearing, and that is what caused him to be dropped prior to getting his current injury.

There are consistent calls for Cuningham to be brought into the side when fit.  But wouldn't he be in the same league as Fantasia?

He has shown that he has the skills to succeed but has he ever put in four quarters ?  My impression is that he has never given us more than one or two quarters in a game before disappearing, and that is what caused him to be dropped prior to getting his current injury.

Vfl side on TV at 2.00pm

Pathetic effort for a club icon's milestone game, very disappointing.

@ElwoodBlues1‍ I understand your points, but a couple of clarifications.

I suspect Hewett, Kennedy and some others are carrying injuries, it's the only thing that explains MC decisions, nursing these blokes through the main season to get them to finals in good enough condition to have an impact.

Our Midfield was down, but we have Cerra back, we don't expect our midfield to perform less competently when you add Cerra but as you mention he's out of form which should probably be expected from a player who has missed so much footy. But now is the time to run him into form and match fitness, not a week before finals.

btw., I often think AFL strength and condition coaches get it wrong, they go too far in the strength and not enough in the condition stuff. Cerra looked heavy and slow, his legs looked significantly bulkier, but he has lost some pace. He like our other Mids needs every trace of pace they can muster.

We brought Cottrell straight back, perhaps the MC honouring a promise to player who lose a spot due to injury, but he's come back in stone cold out of form and having little impact. Same timing issue applies to Cottrell, if we are going to carry him at any stage it has to be now, not in 4 or 5 weeks time!

I get you comment about TDK being in the midfield less, but he can't go the full season like that and not break down, and technically Pitto averages more clearances than TDK. The suggestion we lose clearances is not correct, if we lose anything it's spread, but even yesterday Pitto delivered first possession to a team-mate multiple times and they immediately turned it over.

Pittonet might average more clearances but I'm backing TDK to win the vital ones and have more impact with the ones he gets.

I thought it was midday?

We brought Cerra and Cottrell back too soon.

We brought Cerra and Cottrell back too soon.

They're well below their best and maybe they should have come back through the VFL...but they probably just need game time and the more they play now, the better.

You can say that again Lods 👍🏼

Anyone else pick up on Vossy's dig at umpires re Weiters copping knocks to the back without acknowledgement? (This was in response to a question from a journo re why Weiters was doubled up at one stage?)

Bulldogs' tackling of an opponent who hasn't had prior opportunity (i.e. taking one arm out of the equation and swinging the player off balance) was first class and indicative of some excellent coaching to take full advantage of the changed rule interpretation.

Disappointing result but, if Charlie kicked 7.3 instead of 3.7, we win comfortably.

Sure did. Not sure if he was referring to this and last week or just this week, but made it clear it was happening. I wonder if he gets a please explain from the AFL.

Disappointing result but, if Charlie kicked 7.3 instead of 3.7, we win comfortably.

As my old man used to say, "if my mother had balls she'd be my father".

Yes, and bad kicking is bad footy!

We were ahead in virtually every facet of the game including 15 marks inside 50 to 9.  We threw that game away by not making the most of our opportunities.

Cincotta: did a decent job, considering he wasn't in the middle again Bontempelli much. Even he had a couple of crucial kicking errors, although not as many as most. Bontempelli got most of his ball in the middle, which hurt us.

What if dogs kicked 7 straight instead of 7 points to start the game?

Bulldogs' tackling of an opponent who hasn't had prior opportunity (i.e. taking one arm out of the equation and swinging the player off balance) was first class and indicative of some excellent coaching to take full advantage of the changed rule interpretation.

It was brilliant.
Especially when you realise that part of the rule interpretation didn't change.

There was no change to prior opportunity. Yet the umpires are umpiring in a way that makes out it did.

We never received that memo it appears.

I've never been more convinced that removing prior will be a mistake. The game is a terrible spectacle for it and wait until everyone gets on board.  You'll have have players dropping the ball as they're tackled everywhere.

It looks bad and it is bad.

I've never been more convinced that removing prior will be a mistake. The game is a terrible spectacle for it and wait until everyone gets on board.  You'll have have players dropping the ball as they're tackled everywhere.

It looks bad and it is bad.

I am now sure that I don't know the rules around holding the ball etc anymore and it is making the game less interesting as there doesn't seem to be consistently applied rules (along with the odd return of others such as kicking in danger, not returning the ball directly to the umpire, insufficient attempt etc).  The other one that gets on my goat is incorrect disposal.  So many throws.

The outcry over decisions that are replayed several times, slowed down, viewed from 800 angles is way over the the top with over analysis and unfair to umpires that have 4 angles and a couple of them are a fair distance away.

What if dogs kicked 7 straight instead of 7 points to start the game?

We seem to have the draw from hell.
Recently played all top eight sides some undefeated with a long injury list and now past two games we have played teams that are fighting for survival. This time of year you prefer to play teams in top eight that are slightly complacent than teams fighting to get into the eight as their hunger will always be higher.

I read numerous articles last week on how Cripps has changed his game allowing others to win the ball so gets the second posession. Pretty sure that's Hewett and Kennedy.

I read numerous articles last week on how Cripps has changed his game allowing others to win the ball so gets the second posession. Pretty sure that's Hewett and Kennedy.

It's good that the load is shared, and in Hewett's absence we had a Midfield rotation including Cripps, Walsh, Cerra, Hollands, Fogarty and Kennedy(From 2nd Qtr.), hardly the bare cupboard fans are painting.

Expecting 'bull' work from Fog, Ollie & Walsh is a folly. Our 'bulls' are Crippa, Kennedy, Cincotta and Hewett. Walsh and Cerra are better on the outside and Fog in the small forward mix.

That's not the point, the mix doesn't matter it's the sharing of the load that gets a team across the line. We mentioned many times in the past if we don't find ways to share the load we will run the likes of Cripps prematurely into the ground.

As for having a substitute Cripps, it's a fantasy, there is no "other Cripps".

Good tradespeople look after their tools.

Fog, Walsh, Cincotta, etc., can do what gets done to Cripps, and harass, chase and dump the likes of Bont or others. At the weekend, Bont often stood of the back of the stoppages and played a sweeper role, coming in as the 2nd or 3rd player, and he was doing so largely unchecked.

That's not the point, the mix doesn't matter it's the sharing of the load that gets a team across the line. We mentioned many times in the past if we don't find ways to share the load we will run the likes of Cripps prematurely into the ground.

As for having a substitute Cripps, it's a fantasy, there is no "other Cripps".

Good tradespeople look after their tools.

Fog, Walsh, Cincotta, etc., can do what gets done to Cripps, and harass, chase and dump the likes of Bont or others. At the weekend, Bont often stood of the back of the stoppages and played a sweeper role, coming in as the 2nd or 3rd player, and he was doing so largely unchecked.

Bont did a lot of the monkey work pushing the ball out to other players because he was covered and I think he led the tackle count too with nine and had eight clearances as well, he was kept under wraps by Cincotta and friends but still found a way to contribute and is a class act.
 We had a lot of players get a lot of ball and led most stats but it never looked that way in the game and Im sure Voss and crew will be scratching their heads trying to figure how we lost if you look at the stats in isolation but as we know its more about the big moments in the game than amassing cheap stats.

I reckon based on the presser and efficiency comments voss is aware of where it went wrong.  Doing not much with a lot is what I take out of it.  They were on top for most of it, we had our chances and kept taking the wrong options which hurts.  We did the right thing early applying scoreboard pressure when they didn't but it started falling apart when Williams went off which is why we might look at more creative better users next week against North.  Martin might feature.  I think we should consider it given its a relative free hit.

We did the right thing early applying scoreboard pressure when they didn't but it started falling apart when Williams went off .............

I'm wondering if the Bullies used a few tricky tactics on Weeters and others (at stoppages) such as a lot of marginal blocks and holds.  Id rather we got exposed to crap like that in season and get an opportunity to be educated by it, rather that flunk against it in October/September.

I'm wondering if the Bullies used a few tricky tactics on Weeters and others (at stoppages) such as a lot of marginal blocks and holds.  Id rather we got exposed to crap like that in season and get an opportunity to be educated by it, rather that flunk against it in October/September.

With Mrs Baggers away for the week on work, yours truly has indulged himself today in watching a few replays of our games over the past month or so.

Apart from what has been written about thus far, one other thing stood out - niceness. Watching us against GWS & the Dishlickers was like watching a different side against, say, the Pussycats. In the past coupla weeks, gone is the ruthless hunting, boldness and cold efficiency. Crikey, when the Pussycats came at us (in the 3rd) we came back at them like an avalanche (9gl last qtr). When challenged by the Dishlickers and GWS... meekness, niceness, timidness. Tried, but with no authority or conviction.

Fortunately, and hopefully, all is not lost... shouldn't take much to regain and even build on the boldness, hunting and ruthlessness... and kick the meekness, confusion and niceness to the shizen. Coaches, time for sternness, sharp focus and challenge to our chargers, yourselves, and the MC... player not in good form? - FO. We have it in us.

Apart from what has been written about thus far, one other thing stood out - niceness. Watching us against GWS & the Dishlickers was like watching a different side against, say, the Pussycats. In the past coupla weeks, gone is the ruthless hunting, boldness and cold efficiency. Crikey, when the Pussycats came at us (in the 3rd) we came back at them like an avalanche (9gl last qtr). When challenged by the Dishlickers and GWS... meekness, niceness, timidness. Tried, but with no authority or conviction.

Boom!  This^^^^
We need to be unsocialable again.

About time we started playing like a Vossy coached side. FFS, don't our coaches realize we're at our best with a ruthless hunting mindset?

I don't think anybody doubts that, the problem @Baggers it might not be sustainable week in and week out.

Fans want a lot of stuff, they want Charlie and / or Harry kicking 10, they want TDK solo dominating, they want Cripps BoG, they want Walsh with 30+ and Weiters with a dozen intercepts in front of a scoreless opponent, but want isn't reality, it's not even reality for one game let alone week after week.

We need a spread of methods, we need some easy wins, we need some gritty wins, we need ways to win with small forwards, and ways to win with KPPs, in summary we need many ways to find a win, but by definition having multiple avenues to victory will mean some weeks certain players are in roles that won't see then in the spotlight.

Weightman got his knee into Weiters back a few times and the hurt showed in the end. GWS went with the knee to him as well.
 If I was coaching against us in a final the instructions would be very clear, knee to Weiters at ever opportunity.
I don't think Weiters did himself any favors when he said that he can bleed easily which is why the corkies seem so painful to him.

That sounds like lazy coaching from our end EB, maybe more than the players need a reminder to sort things out

Prof..Id be pointing the finger at the forward line coach rather than Voss, its their job to monitor that area and let know the coach know what is happening and suggest counter moves imho.

I don't think anybody doubts that, the problem @Baggers it might not be sustainable week in and week out.

Fans want a lot of stuff, they want Charlie and / or Harry kicking 10, they want TDK solo dominating, they want Cripps BoG, they want Walsh with 30+ and Weiters with a dozen intercepts in front of a scoreless opponent, but want isn't reality, it's not even reality for one game let alone week after week.

We need a spread of methods, we need some easy wins, we need some gritty wins, we need ways to win with small forwards, and ways to win with KPPs, in summary we need many ways to find a win, but by definition having multiple avenues to victory will mean some weeks certain players are in roles that won't see then in the spotlight.

Ol mate Jordan Russell the whipping boy again?

My mistake GTC...Backline coach, so JR off the hook.