Carlton Supporters Club

Maybe Martin in for Cottrell if he’s injured?
McG for Durdin

Still worried about Ollie…his disposal isn’t great.
Jack Carroll did alright today, but unsure how he’d go against bigger bodies PA mids

Boyd and Kemp also chances

Port Adelaide.

Thought Ollie was ok today and gave effort unlike many of his teammates.
His disposal and decision making needs work but he was a contributor today.
Carroll...second efforts are poor, spectates too much  if he can't get the ball...

Carroll gets knocked/bumped off the footy easily. Ollie competes hard from go to whoa, happy to give a second year who is a goer more time even though he makes mistakes from time to time. His upside is very good.

I think TDK and Walsh will be out. Both are sore and the game is in 4 days time.

They simply have to give Binns a go on a wing - 47 touches in the twos.

TDK out for reminder of H&W. And will be a race at best to play any finals footy as well. Terrible news.

Massive loss.  Pit while serviceable as a ruckman is a massive down ground on TDK around the ground and a non event as a forward

Did you watch the game, the Filth 2s were basically jogging behind uninterested?

Having said that, you can only play against who you play against, and against that lack lustre opposition you'd expect AFL capable types to have a big haul, and Binns did just that.

Just can’t emphasise how important this game is - to both sides!

If we win, we’d be pretty good odds to finish top 2.
If we lose, can’t see us in top 2, and top 4 at risk.
DO NOT want to play Syd or Lions at their home grounds.

On the other hand, if PA lose, can’t see them making finals.

HUGE stakes.

Fogarty is 21 wins from his last 25 games.

Lets get back to intensity TEAM football.
Perform your role.
Run hard when we have the ball, run harder when we don't
Do the 1%ers
Better the ball to make your team mates look good.
Go Blues!

Going to be a tough week for selections with quite a few injuries/niggles and quite a few options to return from injury as well.

I'd like to see us rest anyone who is sore, especially given the short break.
I'd go something like....
Outs: De Koning (inj), Durdin (inj  ::)), Acres (inj/rested), Kennedy (inj/rested), Carroll
Ins: Pittonet, Young, McGovern, Boyd, Martin

Pitto for TDK is obvious.
Gov in because we need him down back.
Young in is basically a case of now or never. That being said, McGovern, Marchbank and Kemp are all fit so not sure the MC will go with Young.
Boyd back in (with Gov + Young) frees up Cincotta to play more midfield.
Acres+Kennedy (and potentially Walsh!) get some much needed rest to recover from injuries. Cuningham + Cincotta to get more midfield time.
Martin to come back in as sub at the expense of Carroll.

If you wanted to rest Walsh as well as acres and Kennedy, Carroll can stay.

Id be keeping Walsh in this week,

Sam Durdin out for 4 to 6 weeks after his one game.  :'(
Hudson O'Keefe gone for 3 to 4 weeks.  :o

Maybe we get McGovern back.
Marchbank may be fit, but do we risk him? Or do we require Young?  >:D

Decisions, decisions!

lets go team defence EVERYONE run back in defence no space for port fwds / we sling shot open forward line

Bit of swagger and head wobble has set in with a few players.....C.Curnow being one example, he is still good enough on an off day to be kicking goals which can mask this attitude but there is a casual aspect to his game that needs fixing.

150% agree with this EB.  He is capable of a lot more then he is delivering.  He is not full on attacking the ball in flight like we know he can - is more content to end up in a push and shove wrestle way too often for a guy who can run like he can. Also watched him at least 3 times last week back out of a marking contest trying to get the Joe the goose in the goal square.

If he had our captains heart the bloke would be better then Buddy but seems content to just plod along at times.

Need a massive finals series from him and hate to say it but to this point Hogan deserves the AA ahead of Charlie IMO.

I don't disagree with what you right here, but i feel Curnow needs someone playing devils advocate.

I think the way we use Curnow is terrible.
There was an article about kicking efficiency and best kicks inside 50 and worst kicks etc.
We had 2 in the top 10 of the bad category, Kennedy was #1 and Walsh was something like #7.
When we kick it to charlie, we kick it on top of his head.
He, like Buddy, is a freak athlete but Marking is not his strongest suit.

We are much better kicking it to him on the lead. Or even dribbling it along the ground to him. His athleticism makes him somewhat unbeatable in those situations and his skill 'on the turn' blows most defenders away.

A lot of the goals Charlie gets are either....
1. Free kicks from desperate defenders trying to wrestle/scrag him
2. Over the back types where he gets back onto the ball from a pack.

Charlie copped a lot of s*it about his finals series and i think in part it was because he didn't get the same (soft?) frees he is used to during H+A. You need to earn your goals in finals.

So yes, Charlie could chase and tackle more. He could be more involved when the ball is not in his hands. He might be struggling with injury now as well.
However, we could do more to help him as well. Perhaps treat him better and we'll get better results from him.

Tough crowd around here. Charlie regularly gets the opposition's best defender, regularly tagged and scragged, is arguably playing injured, arguably out of form, can kick goals outside 50, can kick them off the deck, is a good mark on the lead and in a pack, tries to mix up how he kicks goals (e.g out the back), gets up the ground to mark on the wing, takes game saving marks in defense, and is currently leading the Coleman, after winning the last 2.

How much is one guy supposed to contribute ?

Spot on Paul!

Charlie would have to be the player opposition teams put the most effort into negating.  He cops the best defender, and several assistants, every week and doesn’t always get the best delivery or chop outs from teammates.  Despite that, he’s leading the Coleman with 50 goals and his efforts in defence at crucial times have been match saving.

On top of that, he is very humble person who goes out of his way to interact with supporters and lend his support to many worthy causes.

If folk feel the need to have a crack at Charlie, they’re probably better off following another team 🙄

Tough crowd around here. Charlie regularly gets the opposition's best defender, regularly tagged and scragged, is arguably playing injured, arguably out of form, can kick goals outside 50, can kick them off the deck, is a good mark on the lead and in a pack, tries to mix up how he kicks goals (e.g out the back), gets up the ground to mark on the wing, takes game saving marks in defense, and is currently leading the Coleman, after winning the last 2.

How much is one guy supposed to contribute ?

150% agree with this EB.  He is capable of a lot more then he is delivering.  He is not full on attacking the ball in flight like we know he can - is more content to end up in a push and shove wrestle way too often for a guy who can run like he can. Also watched him at least 3 times last week back out of a marking contest trying to get the Joe the goose in the goal square.

If he had our captains heart the bloke would be better then Buddy but seems content to just plod along at times.

Need a massive finals series from him and hate to say it but to this point Hogan deserves the AA ahead of Charlie IMO.

Shawny...Agree on Hogan, Charlie has way more natural talent but Hogan is working harder than I have ever seen him and I like the Charlie who also works hard for his teammates too but he has become more spasmodic in this regard and I have the feeling is more interested in his own goal tally rather than being part of a forward collective.
He should kick a truckload on duds like Zerk-Thatcher or Esava Ratagolea this week if he can get out of cruise mode....

Charlie is a star and i never said anything otherwise BUT his raw ability doesn't exclude him from criticism if he is not giving his absolute all.

Kane Kornes wants Harry to miss this week. I wonder why?

Kane Kornes wants Harry to miss this week. I wonder why?

He could be injured, nobody knows, maybe that ankle roll caused a loss of confidence or increased caution, finals approach.

He could equally be playing a role to a modified set of instructions.

It could be an effect of BigH having a change of form, or TDK, Cripps, etc., etc..

Is it possibly related to different MC team tactics for different opposition, a tweak here or there?

The asymmetry of the AFL season doesn't help anybody decipher this as we have numerous one off games, and changes in opposition selection, lots of potential drivers of change that fans will be ignorant to and aren't depicted in any set of stats.

As always, the way a set of numbers can get analysed and interpreted by humans will often frame conclusions that aren't represented in the numbers alone.

It would untenable for a ruck, even a ruck as mobile as TDK, to be competing in F50 one moment then 80m away competing with Dixon in D50 seconds later, rinse and repeat. This is an example of the fantasy expectation that fans develop when arguing stats alone.

This is an example of fantasy all right.....you making things up again.

Nobody suggested any ruck would have to do that, but don't let logic get in the way of your fantasy.

Of course they have to, that is why they are called solo, whether it's sustainable is another issue.

Not much point playing a solo ruck if they were to only stay in one half of the ground.

You know, the blokes we are constantly talking about who take ruck contests when your solo ruck cannot for whatever reason.
I'll give you a hint, their names start with McKay, Cripps, Kennedy.

In the past you have constantly argued you don't want TDK at a reduced number of ruck contests that is caused by playing two rucks, and that the number of ruck contests he gets to directly reflects in his good stoppage figures.

100% false claim.

https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/C/Charlie_Curnow.html#20240

Whatever other information may be available, the numbers from AFL Tables suggest that his two poor games were Tigers and Giants. A post earlier from MBB asserts that a drop between Rds 1-11 and R12 onward is most likely due to injury,and if so, then his performances since R12 are all the more remarkable IMO, even allowing for the 2 poor games.

That's just a further demonstration you might not fully understand the meaning of the numbers you present, you don't have to express your claims in words to convey meaning, they are an inherent property of the figures presented. Math is a language, and the numbers hold and describe relationships, which can also be described in written word.

You have become so heavily invested in this solo ruck debate it is clouding your judgement, to the point you can't see that you are contradicting yourself.

Despite many of us posting that it remains an MC decision on a week by week tactical basis, including my earlier #48 Reply (https://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=6929.msg419781#msg419781) in this very thread which stated "this week might have been...." , you continue the barrage.

Only fools talk definitive.

In the past you have constantly argued you don't want TDK at a reduced number of ruck contests that is caused by playing two rucks, and that the number of ruck contests he gets to directly reflects in his good stoppage figures.

So the  years worth of arguments on the matter and you still don't understand the concept of a 'backup ruck'?

You know, the blokes we are constantly talking about who take ruck contests when your solo ruck cannot for whatever reason.
I'll give you a hint, their names start with McKay, Cripps, Kennedy.

Bailey Smith done.

Most are quite rational in response to these issues.

Statistics convey meaning, they are a language, whether you argue with numbers or argue with words you are still making an argument. If statistics don't convey meaning then why post them?

If someone genuinely thinks that somehow a solo ruck isn't going to be required to cover more ground, and not have to get from end to end across the playing surface in quick time, I can't help them, I'm not sure anybody can assist because the assertion they won't need to do so is utterly ludicrous.

Might need a new backup ruck with rumours the Dogs are targeting Pittonet if Tim English takes the big dollars West Coast are offering as the Dogs see Pittonet even though contracted as available.

So i've constantly said stuff.....but you can't provide any evidence, rather just broad generic BS.
Be that statistics that suggest that (which i 100% disagree with as well - in fact i've said the opposite).....but you can't provide evidence of that either.

I don't want to continue this debate in here, so i'll end it with this.
Playing 1 ruck means you have a ruck on the ground 75% and bench 25% of the time (TOG 75% give or take)
Playing 2 rucks means you have a ruck on the bench 60% of the time (TOG 70% each give or take) and 1 ruck on the ground 40% of the time.
What happens when you are playing 2 rucks, but only have 1 on the ground for 40% of the time under your scenario??? Does the world end? Does the whole system break down??
OR does someone else take a ruck contest that the sole ruck on the ground couldn't get to......even if that is a 'thing' that may occur in 1% of scenarios.

Maybe we should play 3 rucks just so we always have 2 rucks on the ground at once so we never have to worry about a ruck missing the 1% of contests they might miss in your scenario.

Or do those statistics not work for you?

If you are so worried about the distance a ruck has to cover, play him exclusively between the arcs.
If you are so worried about the distance a player has to cover, you should be more worried about the mids who have to cover more ground because they have 1 less rotation in the team due to you requiring a ruck to cover a scenario that happens 1% of the time and still has a 40% chance of happening even with your extra ruck!

Again, stop making stuff up just for the sake of arguments.

Playing 2 rucks means you have a ruck on the bench 60% of the time (TOG 70% each give or take) and 1 ruck on the ground 40% of the time.

Dixon rucking F50, and Sweet dropping behind play is a hard reality not something anybody makes up.

I suggest that stopping the posts might be a good idea, because stuff like this item below just doesn't make any sense at all, and your posts are littered with such assertions. Is time disappearing into a black hole?We have a few teacher types in our forum that might be kinder at explaining this to you, there might be some accountants that can give you a bit of a leg up as well, but they might not be so friendly about it.

You know most of us have started scrolling straight past you both when these discussions flare up again right?

Just heard Acres is out tomorrow night..

Get Cerra back in the middle. Give Walsh a run on the wing.

Cerra has been ordinary since he has come back..not a shadow of the player he was last year.

Charlie is a star and i never said anything otherwise BUT his raw ability doesn't exclude him from criticism if he is not giving his absolute all.

Tom Hafey was renowned for saying the one non negotiable to being a long term successful team is every single player must give 100% all the time regardless of the different levels of ability.

Want to see Charlie run his player ragged and attack every contest like it matters. He has athletic ability very few defenders can go through.  He is not doing that at the moment and stats showing how good his year is or saying other teams would want him in a heartbeat doesn't change my point.    

Our flag hopes rests on every player buying in 100% from the best player to the worst player. Collingwood were not the best team last year ability wise but they took the cup home.

Jack Martin not even an Emergency

Makes a lot more sense than swagger, head wobbles and an eye on the Coleman.

It looks like Carroll will be the Sub,which is logical if you want to give Cuningham a bit of game time. Not sure Walsh will play. He looked pretty banged up last week. May bring Binns into squad and allow Carroll to play. I think Carroll is a better kick than Walsh and turns the other way to the rest of our midfield. He does give us a point of difference. It would be good to give Binns a go.

It looks like Carroll will be the Sub,which is logical if you want to give Cuningham a bit of game time. Not sure Walsh will play. He looked pretty banged up last week. May bring Binns into squad and allow Carroll to play. I think Carroll is a better kick than Walsh and turns the other way to the rest of our midfield. He does give us a point of difference. It would be good to give Binns a go.

Port have a fairly heavy hitting midfield, Wines, JHF, Butters, etc, etc,. we wouldn't want to go too light in the rotations, I suspect Cerra and Kennedy will be back in the heat.

Been playing Houston further up the ground and Rozee if he plays while banged up may start on a wing to help preserve him.
I'd expect Wines to play on Cripps and Drew on Walsh...

I've a vague memory we had some poor efficiency despite winning, we burnt a lot if F50 opportunities, if we go in with some mids a bit sorry and sore we won't want to be too wasteful.

Did Wines and Cripps go separate ways last game?

Georgiades, a bit like Larkey, is a real pain in the ar5e for us.

Was it around Rnd 12 that the AFL fiddled with some of the "interpretations", was there some controversy about holding the ball in our game?

................. they also have Rioli back ..............

It looks like Carroll will be the Sub,which is logical if you want to give Cuningham a bit of game time. Not sure Walsh will play. He looked pretty banged up last week. May bring Binns into squad and allow Carroll to play. I think Carroll is a better kick than Walsh and turns the other way to the rest of our midfield. He does give us a point of difference. It would be good to give Binns a go.

Media training 101.

Lay low until it all blows over, then pretend it never existed.
Tinfoil or ostrich. You decide.

Yep, i suspect that it could all work out this way, and i think that is the way to go.
I had Kennedy and Walsh as 2 that could and should be rested to recover. Was surprised to see them both named.
Of course it all means nothing until they actually run out there.
If we don't rest Walsh now, not sure we'll have a good opportunity from here.
5 day break is the perfect time.

It's called "Respecting the wishes of others!" ;)

Sorry, was too late!

McKay is out!  Concussion..

Wonder if Harry is suffering some kind of delayed concussion symptoms ?

Yes, that is exactly what has happened.
I have a contact on the inside

Wonder if Harry is suffering some kind of delayed concussion symptoms ?