Carlton Supporters Club

But...why wasn't he put forward?
Young got moved back, but kemp was on the bench. Why?

Pretty hard with McKay a late out.
There goes home quali final.

We need to draft or recruit a KPP or 2.

I keep saying that. But no-one listens to me :(

We're not short of talls if they are all playing.

Vossys match day moves seem non existent.

Left Charlie on an island most of the night.

Commentators said we need someone capable of a mark up forward and then they cut to the bench with Kemp sitting there twiddling his thumbs.

We can have half our small forwards out and not notice.
We lose 2 talls and we implode.

Problem is our talls are A graders, our smalls probably C's at best.

Injuries 'are' an excuse...they're the best bloody excuse there is.

Make it in a decent ladder position.
With a reasonably fit side...
and I wouldn't expect that Port would cause us too many problems

But both of those are big 'ifs' just at the moment.

Seriously who do we have out. Like no team ever has no injuries.
We are missing TDK harry and Doc.
If we were as good i started to think we ate we still take care of the 7th placed interstate team at home.  If we played swans loins then maybe not having a full team may be a reason but against a middle of the road team at home nope im not buying that.

McKay, De Koning, Williams and Acres. That's a good chunk of running power, goal scoring ability and height.

Yep if you ever wondered who the number 1 ruck was that question has been more than answered. Pittonet is a C grade footballer.

At the ground I thought Pittonrt was useless. Charlie was well beaten.weitering beat Dixon but not much else.

JSOS, Acres, Williams, Martin too would be handy.

I just don't understand how we can play one qtr the last few weeks that is premiership material then not fire a shot for the rest. Like after we do that we are cooked and sides just run over us. Up until 4 weeks ago getting run over by sides just never happened. If we were a few goals up, then the other side kicked a few, we'd lift and burying them unmercifully. Now we just get run over and crash after that one random qtr of brilliance.

Maybe at the end of the year you can award the stat premiership to Cripps.

Charlie had...
- 2nd for m gained - 547m gained. (McGovern had 553m, next best was cripps with 370m and Walsh with 358m)
- most inside 50s - 6
- most contested marks - 3
- most goals - 3
- most fantasy points on the ground (afl app) - 113.

Well beaten??

Pittonet had...
- =2nd clearances - 5 (cripps 9, Walsh and Hewett 5)
- =4th in contested marks - 1
- 232m gained which was twice as much as saad. 3 times as much as Hewett. And better than 8 other Carlton players including cottrell.
- more disposals, more inside 50s, more clearances, more m gained than his direct opponent.
(Some stats still not loaded yet but there will be more)

So he did his job as well.

Now, my comments were based off what I saw.
I only went OK the stats to justify it because I'm not sure what you saw.

Seriously martin? Never plays.
JSOS? Jack of all trades great back ip player but without be bias he is not a starting 18 player.
Williams ? Most on here bagged the guy except when he was moved forward - saying when we had a healthy list he is on the edge now he is one of the reasons we lose. Nope im not buying it.

If we cant beat a mid road team at home with a top 4 spot on the line we are also just a mid road team. Losers make excuses the champion teams get it done against everyone but maybe the very top. Port are not that and the team we fielded should have got it done but we failed.
It is what it is. We are now in a fight again to make the 8 and games against Pies hawks and even saints are no sure thing so unless out form improves we will drop to the bottom of the 8.

I started to foolishly believe we were better. We are not.

Martin starred late last year when it mattered. He was vital.  While he is on our list and he's not playing then.we miss that.

While.i was looking through the stats I noticed something interesting in regards to Kemp.

He played 100% TOG in quarters 1, 2 and 3.
He played only 54% TOG in the last.

I noted before that I saw him on the bench in the last when we needed something from him and vossy didn't try much with him when we needed it.

Now to me that shows either....
1. A severe lack of trust in Kemp to do what's required when it matters.
2. He got injured.

Either way, it's not good news for us and him.

Kemp isnt big enough to play CHB, we dont have a real deal CHB thats the problem...McGovern and Kemp are essentially the same type of intercept defender and there is probably room for one only and you can throw Marchbank in that group too.
We need a 196cm/100kg plus strong CHB who can take the load off Weitering as you, I,  and a few others have discussed ad nauseam. Our defense rebounds well but doesnt defend so well and allows too many opposition marks and when you get spuds like Esava influencing games down forward its time to rethink what we are doing and admit its not working.

Kemp isnt big enough to play CHB, we dont have a real deal CHB thats the problem...McGovern and Kemp are essentially the same type of intercept defender and there is probably room for one only and you can throw Marchbank in that group too.
We need a 196cm/100kg plus strong CHB who can take the load off Weitering as you, I,  and a few others have discussed ad nauseam. Our defense rebounds well but doesnt defend so well and allows too many opposition marks and when you get spuds like Esava influencing games down forward its time to rethink what we are doing and admit its not working.

Some facts
- we lack pace
- Pittonet, Marchbank, Young & Durdin nowhere near AFl standard
- we need so much more from Cottrell and Cerra
- O Hollands continues to make inexcusable mistakes at this level
- no team can sustain the sheer number of injury prone players on our list (Martin, Cunningham, McGovern, Marchbank, Williams)
- we lack young talent
- we have way too much salary cap invested in too few. We need to rebalance.

We’re going to need go trade heavily to rebalance the list and cut the injury prone deadwood once and for all. We’re a long way from a premiership.

- Too much back slapping and bath water drinking at half time for my liking.
- Defence is a shambles, has been for weeks, wish our fwds could have that dished up to them by oppo.
- Enough with Cunningham already., clean your locker out son.
- I think we are pretenders.

Unfortunately our Cap was to full to get Harry's brother. That was the plan early last season.

Seriously martin? Never plays.
JSOS? Jack of all trades great back ip player but without be bias he is not a starting 18 player.
Williams ? Most on here bagged the guy except when he was moved forward - saying when we had a healthy list he is on the edge now he is one of the reasons we lose. Nope im not buying it.

If we cant beat a mid road team at home with a top 4 spot on the line we are also just a mid road team. Losers make excuses the champion teams get it done against everyone but maybe the very top. Port are not that and the team we fielded should have got it done but we failed.
It is what it is. We are now in a fight again to make the 8 and games against Pies hawks and even saints are no sure thing so unless out form improves we will drop to the bottom of the 8.

I started to foolishly believe we were better. We are not.

First choice maybe.
Replacement talls are d grade (don't give e grades anymore otherwise they would be here).

Look I was, I wouldn't say optimistic, but excited to see how we'd go with mix n matching the players we had available.

However....It was a terrible fail.

Both in terms of output and 'data collected'
We should've tried to move players around a bit more to find a mix that worked. We didn't.

I think pitto was good in the ruck.
I thought Charlie was good up forward.
I thought weiters was good down back.
I thought gov was passable.
I thought Kemp and young were largely disappointing.

Too many fumbles. Too slow to make decisions. Not enough 'swinging around' from vossy.

At the ground I thought Pittonrt was useless. Charlie was well beaten.weitering beat Dixon but not much else.

Some facts
- we lack pace
- Pittonet, Marchbank, Young & Durdin nowhere near AFl standard
- we need so much more from Cottrell and Cerra
- O Hollands continues to make inexcusable mistakes at this level
- no team can sustain the sheer number of injury prone players on our list (Martin, Cunningham, McGovern, Marchbank, Williams)
- we lack young talent
- we have way too much salary cap invested in too few. We need to rebalance.

We’re going to need go trade heavily to rebalance the list and cut the injury prone deadwood once and for all. We’re a long way from a premiership.

.
{1} Pittonet: in the first half he was pretty good, but after half time he got smashed. Sweet gave him a lesson on how to palm the ball to advantage. Port got their hands on the ball first and got the ball out too easily.
Marc did take 2 marks tonight and was one of the reasons we played as well as we did in the 2nd quarter, but after that he barely touched the ball.

This is becoming a repeat of 2022.

Martin matchbank cunningham all can play but they are fragile and completely unreliable. All 3 have to be delisted at years end. We need to put a line through them and move on. Given more the enough time to try and get them going and they just keep breaking down. They are all cooked.

Goodness me, what a load of chicken littles.

Port are good enough to beat pretty much anyone, they had an extra day break, and we had a few too many walk up starts way down on output and to go with it, the umpires rogered us beautifully with quite a few decisions which actually put port in front.

Yes, we should have been able to hold on, but we were dump kicking long to no one.

Kemp did swing forward when young went back, but the ball didn't go near him and then pittonet disappeared and young was required in the ruck.

Acres, tdk and McKay are massive upgrades over what we put out particularly acres running power and height. 

Regarding talls, the balance wasn't wrong, we couldn't run out the game anyway.  There ends that lesson.  Our run isn't hampered by height its hampered by too many underdone smalls who don't give us 4 quarters of effort.

I generally agree Thry. As disappointing as last night surely was, when you take into account all the factors (injuries, form, short turnaround, Port's excellent record at Marvel and also Friday nights etc.) it was always a 50/50 game IMO. We weren't blown out of the water. It was a 2 goal loss.

I'm not sure where this idea arises that Port are garbage. They are in the mix for finals this year, and they've made finals most seasons under Hinkley.

last I checked they're equal second, we've knocked them off once this season already and this was the square up from that.  We'll beat Collingwood next week and everything will be awesome and we'll be flag favourites again. 

In other news - is Walshy the most “caught” player in the league?

Facts: 1st, 3rd and 4th qtrs yielded 2 goals.
Once the inevitable happened - Port increasing pressure, yes we were able to absorb it but lost boldness, creativity and offensive bite/too many blokes went into their shells and became reactive and safe, Ollie was and is a good example of this, under serious pressure, too many mistakes, fumbles and panicky disposals.
Hamstrung by the realities of injuries to key personnel - H/TDK/Blacres in particular.

Possible MC and coaching errors:
Just because L Young is 200+ cms tall, it doesn't mean he's a viable or obvious replacement for H - though I do get tall for tall. I wonder how many of us thought that when we learned of H's illness that Kemp would have been the obvious replacement up forward and Young down back on the out of form Dixon to free up Weiters for a more creative role? (2nd ruck duties to mids, to simply provide a contest and get the aggott on the grass).
Cerra a HBFer? Nuh. And we all know it. He's a midfielder, FFS.

Persistent issues:
Inconsistency in games and week to week.
Sh*t the bed when the real heat comes.
MC conservative, odd and safe selections.
Walsh trying to do too much, FFS Walshy use your possessions to bring team mates into the game rather than trying to do it all yourself.

So why am I still optimistic?
Trust in Cook, Voss & Crippa.
Imminent return of H & Blacres.
Our side does have character, a strong culture and a great core group.

I'm done with Young and would prioritize Lemmey. The former was terrible last night and you would get more of a contest at a nursing home bingo night than we got from Young.

I'd think about Lemmey as well. Right now we have blokes playing that have missed pre season and missed a chunk of the season. That includes Walsh, who is looking tired. We are playing premiership footy for a qtr then are cooked. We can't play more than a qtr right now. Just don't see why Cottell plays. Why bring him straight back after injury. Binns must come in, fresh and can go all day.

At the start of the season my greatest concern was expectation. And how we would deal with it and rise above it.

So let's distill and keep it simple. Here's the boring repetitious stuff that I've being banging on about for months (that erases nervous expectation delivery)... be the hunters. Live it and breath it.

A cliche that p1sses me off is... 'we know we can't have it all our way all the time...' what a ridiculous obvious reality to put in the player's heads and hearts - it opens a back door. It's a lapse excuse. It's a lapse justification. That's human nature, don't feed it with comments that give a lapse a justification or excuse.

Hunters crack the sh*ts with lapses. Hunters are intolerant of lapses and letting other sides in. Being the hunter should be and must be the default and the ruthlessly persistent position. And if someone hunts us... fckn great... 'now I'm going to hunt you harder than you hunt me, and for longer'. Hunters inspire and lift team mates. Hunters create an energy and spirit that is contagious & omnipotent... and a great single focus, provided, in our game, you have the blokes who can deliver. In the main, we have those blokes. A hunter culture weeds out non-hackers real quick. Examples? Newman is a hunter, so is Weiters, so is Acres, so is Crippa, so is Charles, so is TDK. I'm sure you can think of examples of blokes who once hunted, succumb. They're not hunters. Above the shoulders stuff, again.

This is a combative sport. Keep it simple. Be the hunters for 120 minutes. Every single minute.

Yep EB, I'm at a loss with Young, has all the attributes to be a contributor but soft at the contest.  I thought it was a confidence issue but doesn't play like it means anything to him.  I'd pay out his contract and tell him to F off, that kind of attitude causes deep cultural issues at clubs.  No passengers.

I think Walsh's back issues are a real issue, he's lost any burst speed.  "Back related" hamstring used to be thing, and a real concern

Cerra needs a rocket as well. Play with intensity or piss off to Cramer Street.

Agree Prof, Im happy to trade Young out and try my luck with someone else as a KP tall defender, his intensity is zero and he looks cooked as far as wanting to contest hard and is a shadow of the player who impressed in his first season.
Cerra is also wanting it bruise free and looking for the cheapie on the outside....one clearance , one tackle and only 4 contested out of his miserable 15 possessions isnt good enough for what we are paying him and he needs to support Cripps, Walsh etc better or learn about responsibility and workrate in the VFL.
Too many players wanting it bruise free and for the usual suspects in Cripps and Walsh doing the hard yakka, wearing the knocks and those two looked jaded and tired at the end. Walsh looks really out of sorts and needs a rest but we cant afford it given we have nothing to replace him with. I can see Ben Camporeale playing a lot of footy next season....

well i got that wrong i thought we would win, BUT once again our crap game plan i call it u12 get ball boot ball we are so predictable my 2 favourite parts are 1 the kick in from football back long to the wing only to watch it come straight back and 2 long bomb to our fwds and no pressure from our smalls. Trouble is i was saying the same thing last year .Voss and co haven't changed a thing WORRY

Some inaccuracies with this post.

1. Pittonet and sweet had the same amount of disposals in the 2nd half. Sweet had 1 more hitout in the 2nd half. Pitto had 1 more clearance in this time. (Cant access hta stats)
2. Pittonet took both his marks in the first quarter. Had 5 touches to sweets 0, but lost hitouts 10-3. 1-0 in clearances.
3. His 2nd quarter
Hitouts 12-10
Clearances 3-2
Disposals 3-2

I think his best was Q1 and broke even every quarter from there.

Edit: TOG stats shows sweet played 88% pitto played 75%. That is equivalent to an extra 16 minute of play. 16 minutes of play where he was up against our backup ruck.
Yet no advantage in the stats.

What brainiac scheduled us last on a Sunday, then Friday night?  Don't see how that was ever a level playing field.

We overlooked LDU and Cerra for Dow, who we passed on for bugger all, then traded a first rounder for Cerra.  That draft year has been curse for this club.

isn't that the whole point of saying we can't have it our way all the time?

To keep you fighting when it isn't?

There's nothing level about this competition any longer. The tail wags the dog.

That said, a 5d break shouldn't occur this time of year. Obviously the powers want to pip other codes and $ deals. Given there's 18 teams, I'd guess 5d could be avoided,  althoughwe did put our case forward for the big games. Unfortunate for us, this one coincides with crucial injuries (some compliments of the sniper 😕) as well as poor form after return from injury. If you look at that combination, it resembles an obvious ticking time bomb. Particularly when you consider the load on the regulars and the  capability of bottom end players.

Interesting to see the 5d break spread across all teams.

We can only remain hopeful that we can turn it around. What is certain is that we're very hard to beat when at our fierce  best. The real challenge is consistency.

Go Blues

It's interesting, this idea of the psychology of the sporting mind. It's something of a dilemma, because you can't tell the players that our best team is not on the park, we have a few players out, therefore just try your best etc. But on the other hand, that's precisely what we, the coaches and the players are know perfectly well. There are very good reasons why clubs chase the top draft picks, why Cripps gets paid way more than Lewis Young. You can't tell the players injuries to A grade team mates are an excuse, but we all know those players are first choice for a reason. You can't keep winning with too many stars out. I didn't see our players lack effort last night. But they looked disorganized and tired, and you end up with an untenable situation where the B and C graders are not quite up to the mark, and the A graders try to overcompensate. At least that's how I see it. 

Cerra has been a bust since his injury.

He's had enough time to turn get up to speed.
I don't expect to see an improvement over what Cerra gives us, but it might be time to reward Binns with a game who is in white hot form in the 2's.

Totally understand, Pauly. That's why game day mindset (and training) is so critical - to condition our mind to step over those life realities and focus relentlessly on excellence, and all it asks, for two hours. And as you rightly point out, some do it better than others - enter the Vossy's, Crippa's, Jezza's... sheesh, any star you can think of... they have the natural talent combined with a mindset of ruthless persistence toward excellence. But there are many players not blessed with sublime natural talent who developed a mindset of sustained excellence... to get the very best out of themselves and do succeed at the highest level, although only a B or C grader, talent wise. That's what we need, especially, from our 'bottom 6-8' on game day.

A reasonable example would be Young. He has a degree of natural talent but appears not to have the mental discipline. And boy doesn't it show when the heat comes. Kade Simpson might be an example of the opposite, capable skills but boy what mental discipline and application. I'm sure most of us could come up with a huge list of blokes who weren't blessed with talent to burn or  a huge, strong body yet they were so mentally tough that they shrugged aside any limitations.

I'd have to say I have no idea who is mentally tough and who isn't. I wouldn't even know where to begin.

I'd have to say I have no idea who is mentally tough and who isn't. I wouldn't even know where to begin.

Of course we look at it from a distance, so it's not an easy task.
But there are certainly signs that may suggest a level of mental toughness.

A player who lifts his game when his team is in trouble and has a 'follow me' type of presence probably has a fair degree of mental toughness. I reckon our captain shows signs of that.

A player whose game goes to pieces after an early mistake probably lacks a mental toughness. On the other hand someone who comes back and gets on top of his opponent after an early setback probably possesses a degree of mental toughness.

Someone who is given an opportunity after being out for some time and just doesn't take that opportunity probably has questionable toughness.

It's also probably fair to say though that talented players don't always possess mental toughness and under the pressure of big games sometimes go missing.

But identifying mental toughness is not always an easy task...note how often I used the word 'probably' in this post.
It's hard to be definite.

A player whose game goes to pieces after an early mistake probably lacks a mental toughness. On the other hand someone who comes back and gets on top of his opponent after an early setback probably possesses a degree of mental toughness.

Last night was pathetic. First 10 mins of the third quarter we should’ve just put it beyond reach but farted around, couldn’t hit a target in our f50
And showed no composure for a supposed grand finalist.

Our last month has been crap - last weeks win was unconvincing.

I thought this was our year, it felt different. Unfortunately the last month has a familiarity to it - not in a good way.

Back to my old  mantra, Losers lose because they lose, Winners win because they win.  At the end of the first quarter against GWS you could see the self satisfaction in the players. The Club has played in one Preliminary Final in twenty-five years and one final series in twelve years and they talk about what their identity is. They have a losers identity and they will keep that identity until they create a winners identity for themselves. The players say they love the passion the supporters bring but the love is not reciprocated by them otherwise they wouldn't put up what they have in the past four weeks. I thought we had turned the corner but it looks like it is another blind alley.
Since the Geelong game I do not understand the selection policy. You pick seven forwards, seven backs and eight midfielders, you have key forwards, key defenders and a ruck. Injuries and illness can disrupt this process but it appears the Club has been experimenting with the team's structure and we are paying for it.
Kemp at this stage is not able to play on gorillas and the other clubs have worked it out. I believe we need to commit to Young. Last year Collingwood won a Grand Final with Billy Frampton and whatever Young's short comings are he is a far better player than Frampton.
In Jack Dyer parlance,  Sam Walsh is going to where the ball aint. He either needs a rest or a rocket.
Under pressure our decision making and skills let us down. We dropped so many marks twenty metres out in defence which adds to the pressure. Players are not running and spreading because they don't trust their team mates so when someone wins the ball in defence their is no one to kick it to. In the last minute when Hewitt couldn't hit Cripps with a twenty metre pass was representative of our skills. We are being out tackled and smashed around the ball and too many players are trying to make the Hollywood play, like Cottrell did in the second quarter rather than trusting the game plan and the skills. So many times the players just didn't seem to be on the same page, took too long to make a decision which drew pressure, or simply played selfishly.
We have the team, and I think we have the Coaches and the Club is being managed well, so it must be the attitudes of the players, both individually and as a collective.

I'd think about Lemmey as well.

Agree, last week vs Nth didnt impress me and set us up for the debacle vs Port imo. We are not the second best team in the comp and got ahead of ourselves and Brisbane deserve second place given their form compared to ours.
Lucky our draw isnt as challenging in the run home and we might still steal second place but Im not seeing anything that makes us strong  contenders other than most of the other teams in the eight apart from the Swans and Lions are as equally up and down in form and a Bradbury team like the Bulldogs could even sneak their way through to the prelims .

Actually our draw is the Pies on Pendlebury's 400th, Hawthorn, the form side, St.Kilda, who are suddenly flying.

I'm hanging my hat on the fact the Pies lost R20, 21 and 23 then won the flag. Then praying for the best.

Can't afford to drop a game and if we do then we don't deserve 2nd spot.
Pies are done for the season, Hawks youth and pace will be challenging but I'd expect to flog Stkilda who have fluked a few wins.

The frustrating thing is we are not winning games, but are certainly not getting smashed either.

Just gotta hope that our list gets as fit as possible over the next 4 weeks or so, and we win enough to get a decent finals draw. 

This is a season where anyone finishing in the 8 could end up with a premiership cup.

We overlooked LDU and Cerra for Dow, who we passed on for bugger all, then traded a first rounder for Cerra.  That draft year has been curse for this club.

Ease up.   This time last year Cerra was our best player leading our best and fairest and the CSC Jim Park B+ F until injured at round 18.   He has struggled since he returned but calling him a bust is ridiculous.   We need him fit and ideally not off half back.

Yes, i think apart from the Sydney game, there's just that extra 5% missing IMO, where we are always in the contest, but just can't quite get it done. Admittedly many teams are playing in a similar way, but it is frustrating. Close enough won't work this season IMO.

Isn't it about time that Carlton stopped trying to make Kemp  a backline player?  It may well be that he would be successful in the midfield or forward line but until we try it looks like we are trying to force a square peg into a round hole.

The same experiment occurred with Zac Williams.  Until his recent successful move into the forward line his continual poor performances on the back line had people calling for him to be moved on at the end of the season.

Coaches' votes :

10 Ollie Wines (PORT)
6 Willem Drew (PORT)
4 Miles Bergman (PORT)
4 Charlie Curnow (CARL)
3 Aliir Aliir (PORT)
2 Travis Boak (PORT)
1 Jason Horne-Francis (PORT)

Charlie was well beaten

:-[

Pittonet must have just missed out.

Coaches' votes :

10 Ollie Wines (PORT)
6 Willem Drew (PORT)
4 Miles Bergman (PORT)
4 Charlie Curnow (CARL)
3 Aliir Aliir (PORT) Really? Who kicked half our score?
2 Travis Boak (PORT)
1 Jason Horne-Francis (PORT)

Re: Kemp

He is 39 games into his AFL career and often has to play undersized due to our lack of height.  He still is really a baby.   While he has had an average 4-5 weeks he has had a good year and need more exposure at the elite level.

Re: Kemp

He is 39 games into his AFL career and often has to play undersized due to our lack of height.  He still is really a baby.   While he has had an average 4-5 weeks he has had a good year and need more exposure at the elite level.

Seems a 14 point lost to Port is not as bad as people make out.

Check out the Port vs Sydney game.
Port 64.
Syd 0.
 :o  :o  :o

The Port/Fluffy Ducks game has absolutely nothing to do with excusing or justifying our effort/position.

The issue is that we are no where near as good as we thought we were. Finals pretenders. And no amount of spin from you, others or the media with convince most of us otherwise - in the past month plus, under pressure, we've been submissive.

We're a very good side when things suit us. Otherwise, we're competitive. But definitely not a legitimate top 4 or even finals contender. So glad I didn't waste my hard earned on securing finals tickets.