Carlton Supporters Club

Are we still in the 8?

Must be time for a new coach!

Cerra out early.
Cottrell out soon after.
Acres playing hurt.
Charlie getting hurt.
Newman playing hurt.

Couldn't find the big sticks all game.

Getting flogged for 3/4s

Still had a chance to beat the premiers and should've won if not for govs terrible effort.

Cest la vie

We are in.

Game vs Hawks next week is for a spot in the 8 though.

Pendles 400, injuries etc excuses excuses excuses  and while Collinwood win premierships we make excuses.
Maybe not creative and brave enough at the selection table is my main concern...if a player doesnt deserve a game then they should not play AFL football. I am guessing many will be happy with that fightback - but thats where we are as a club honourable losses not going away in a hurry - leadership and attitude Joel Selwood/Stephen Kernahan/John Nicholls style should have won us that match from the second quarter.
Presser from Voss will be fascinating.

Cerra out early.
Cottrell out soon after.
Acres playing hurt.
Charlie getting hurt.
Newman playing hurt.

Couldn't find the big sticks all game.

Getting flogged for 3/4s

Still had a chance to beat the premiers and should've won if not for govs terrible effort.

Cest la vie

🤣
So, tell us of the bold strategic selections you would have made for tonight’s game ?

I dont get paid $900k to lose games of football on selection table next question?

Before the game i predicted with my mates cerra would do a hammy on a cold night at the G.

But you’ve got the answers, right… ?

Four weeks ago with the Giants on the ropes top 2 was on the cards.   Now we battle to make the eight.

Tonight we win most key indictors but still get spilt up and are easy to score against.   Played a side tonight that has a better system.   Bit of work to be done both on and off the field.

Hawthorn smashedcollingwood. We're gone

You’re amazing 💞

The Pies last 6 weeks
North +1
Gold Coast - 21
Essendon -12
Geelong -20
Hawthorn -66
Richmond +26

This a bad loss.   Even before injuries we were well down and getting outplayed.  

You are a wanker always have been.

Kruddler called it in the preseason. We need s second key defender.

Cerra out early.
Cottrell out soon after.
Acres playing hurt.
Charlie getting hurt.
Newman playing hurt.

Couldn't find the big sticks all game.

Getting flogged for 3/4s

Still had a chance to beat the premiers and should've won if not for govs terrible effort.

Cest la vie

With Cotts and Cez out injured Voss has no choice but to be creative because whatever he has been trying tactically has not been working past two months. This is where pennies are earned - lets see how creative and good our senior coach is. He is a damn good senior coach but a great one? Time will tell...

Tactically I think the jury is out on Voss and Im fed up with the Hewett, Kennedy merry go round as well......why was Kennedy sub?

Agree - why is this the only change they seem to make.

Maddening.

Pendles 400, injuries etc excuses excuses excuses  and while Collinwood win premierships we make excuses.
Maybe not creative and brave enough at the selection table is my main concern...if a player doesnt deserve a game then they should not play AFL football. I am guessing many will be happy with that fightback - but thats where we are as a club honourable losses not going away in a hurry - leadership and attitude Joel Selwood/Stephen Kernahan/John Nicholls style should have won us that match from the second quarter.
Presser from Voss will be fascinating.

The Pies last 6 weeks
North +1
Gold Coast - 21
Essendon -12
Geelong -20
Hawthorn -66
Richmond +26

This a bad loss.   Even before injuries we were well down and getting outplayed.  

Why don’t we Shepard ever? Such a basic skill and we rarely do it.

Pretenders until we prove otherwise

You're not going to win too many games when motlop, Harry and Charlie miss very gettable set shots.

Going mcgovern late, is a soft target.  There were plenty of opportunities to win it, but rather than blame our boys, the softest free kick to mason Cox in history was the difference on the day. 

Not sure Newman had much of him and he fell backwards under his own weight.

We started rushing players back who had missed a chunk of the season  and we lost our run. Some were ok to bring back but Cerra and Cottrell were 2 too many.  There's a difference in the side that smashed Geelong and now. Even Walsh missed his pre season and a chunk of the season. Was great for a while but now it's caught up. Went conservative at selection with half fit tried and true rather than playing fit players. Could well cost a season

It's a bit gloom and doom  in here at the moment.
That's OK we all take different things from games.

A loss like that hurts.
It's against one of the two clubs we especially hate to lose against.
The funny thing is that the results of games between Carlton and Collingwood are never predictable, no matter what the ladder position.
And in this wacky season it's particularly so.
The form of clubs varies from month to month.
If you did a ladder just over the last six weeks it would be on its head compared to the ladder six weeks prior.
No game is guaranteed.
And picking a Premier this far out, or even the finals make up, is nothing more than a guess, because the ladder and form will likely turn on its head again.

Collingwood were a basket case a couple of weeks ago.
If they're still a basket case, then that reflects poorly on us.
But they are essentially still a premiership team, so what if they have clicked.
We were beaten by a couple of goals last week by a side who demolished the ladder leader last night.
Good luck trying to work any form line through some of the results.

Some folks are more disappointed than others.
There's an old saying that "the level of disappointment reflects the level of expectations."
It's very true about football.

So last night we were very poor in many aspects.
Players down, players injured, inaccuracy, lack of pressure.
Some of our better players had their poorest games for the year.
I'd hazard a guess that Curnow's 'rolled' ankle may be an ongoing stability issue that he's been carrying for some weeks.
Not much to get excited about.

Do we take solace in the last quarter effort?
If we condemn the bad, we can't overlook the good.
Turnarounds from bad form often manifest themselves in a good last quarter effort that follows into subsequent games.
It reminds players of the level of pressure and belief that are required.
Whether we take that lesson into the next few games will very much determine our fate.

As Voss said last night...it is now "urgent" and if we're good enough then "urgent" is a challenge we will rise to meet.

My major take away is that we kicked ourselves out of the game.  The problem I have with it is not for the first time and it wasn't about anything other than execution in front of goals.  I recall 4 maybe 5 very gettable set shots where the form fluctuation remains the same but the result is different.

We won't lose again all season.

Another player who has the knack of being on the ground all day and being invisible.

I listened to the 2’d quarter on the radio and they talked of Collingwood players getting into Jesse and getting very physical - I didn’t hear of any Carlton player coming in to help - that was on the radio so maybe not 100% accurate but maybe he was rattled after it?

We showed plenty of fight in the last primarily inspired by Crippa but it was a fight to get out of a scrape we should not have put ourselves in. Anyway, brutal assessment, this is not our year. We need to reassess, fix the gaps in our list and get super strong for 2025. The window is closing and new younger teams are emerging!

I listened to the 2’d quarter on the radio and they talked of Collingwood players getting into Jesse and getting very physical - I didn’t hear of any Carlton player coming in to help - that was on the radio so maybe not 100% accurate but maybe he was rattled after it?

Motlop gets in peoples faces plenty. Through out a few don't argues and goes in hard at the contest.
If we could get Fantasia to do the same, he might be in the side.

Some people may have missed some of the things Motlop did, partially because the commentators (on TV at least, probably same for radio) can't tell the difference between him and Martin.
At least 3 times they called the wrong name in reference to those 2.  ::)

Lods,

Almost thirty years of mediocrity.  Almost every club has won a flag in that period, except us.  And we've been so bad we made West Coast look good.

And we loose every single important game - milestones, rivalry games... Any game that actually matters for something.

So many of us long-termers have had enough of the slogans,  lies and bulldust.  Respect for Pendles blah blah blah....how about respecting US the fans by turning up and having a fair dinkum go, not the bulldust we've seen this year....flog Geelong and then win one quarter in six weeks?  Really!?!  How about WINNING something?

It was the coaches that always wore the blame, maybe its the players, but this club has serious issues from top to bottom.

I listened to the 2’d quarter on the radio and they talked of Collingwood players getting into Jesse and getting very physical - I didn’t hear of any Carlton player coming in to help - that was on the radio so maybe not 100% accurate but maybe he was rattled after it?

Pies do the basics right. We don’t. Dunno how many times we didn’t have basic front and centres.

We're a nice team, unfortunately nice teams don't win many premierships.

I'm not exactly sure where the issues lie. I'm not sure if it's the undeniable reality that all teams have up and down periods, injuries, fatigue, selection etc. I don't think it's about this or that position. It's not IMO about small forwards, or rucks, or key defenders. Too many of our players just seem in poor form.

Yeah, we can speculate all we like but none of us ‘outsiders’ can possibly know where the issue lies or even if there is an issue (other than not good enough).

It’s perplexing as hell though. We were/are so close.

I’m wondering if Voss falls into that category of being such a champion player that he just expects others to execute perfectly every time, rather than getting them to focus on one specific task or skill set which benefits the team while sacrificing their personal gain.

McCrae wasn’t exactly a superstar but his players lock into a system and ‘connected’ more seamlessly than we did for most of the night.

For instance, why didn’t anyone stick like glue to Bobby Hill all night? The guy won a premiership off his own bat last year yet was paid little respect for most of the game.

Bringing Cox in was a no brainer given the absence of TDK. Cameron took 6 marks and Pittonet zero. Although, to be fair, I thought Pittonet’s last quarter was enormous and was instrumental in our comeback.

Another positive was Crippa probably picked up votes again.

If we took him off for concussion (like we got in trouble for not doing) and let Harry take it could you imagine the outcry?

The same pattern for 5 weeks, playing one random brilliant qtr, This week it was the last.

We had 8 points on the board q1. Nuff said.

I mentioned in game that our forward entries were poor and we were not kicking well to our forwards.

Looking a little bit deeper at that.
Overall, we won inside 50's - 58 - 51
Overall, we had more scoring shots (inc rushed) - 26 - 24

I broke down inside 50's per quarter.
I broke down scores per quarter
I broke down scoring shots per inside per quarter.

Carlton
Q# - G.B. - I50's - scoring / inside 50.
Q1 - 1.8 - 16 - 44%
Q2 - 2.3 -  9 - 56%
Q3 - 3.3 -  9 - 67%
Q4 - 5.1 - 24 - 25%
Tot -11.15 - 58 - 45%

Collingwood
Q# - G.B. - I50's - scoring / inside 50.
Q1 - 2.2 - 11 - 36%
Q2 - 4.4 - 15 - 53%
Q3 - 5.3 - 17 - 47%
Q4 - 1.3 -  8 - 50%
Tot -12.12 - 51 - 47%

What is shows is that we were actually very good at hitting the scoreboard for most of the game based on the amount of inside 50's we were getting.
Very efficient for 3/4's.
Also very inaccurate too.
However, despite dominating the last quarter with the most inside 50's and the most goals (for us) during that time. We REALLY struggled to convert it on the scoreboard.
To be on a par with the other 3/4's, (and collingwood) we should've had an extra 6 scoring shots in the last based on those inside 50's. Probably 5 more considering the last one didn't count (thanks gov).
If we did get the average conversion from inside 50's, thats the game, even if we missed them all!

Of course, this 4th quarter struggle to hit the scoreboard happened to coincide with Charlie being off the ground for 10 minutes.

Of course, we were also very inaccurate in front of goal early and could've put it beyond doubt well before the last quarter, but thats just another layer of the same slice of cake.

That is....
Our forwardline is not functioning correctly and we need to be smarter with our entries

here ends the statistical lesson.

By my count we scored better and more efficiently from shots taken in the final quarter. 

Earlier we were wasteful when you said we were efficient.  Particularly for proper set shots inside 50.

Stats lie.  My eyes don't.

....and opinions are not wrong?

Some peoples opinions have changed from last night on a rewatch of the game. I suggest you do the same.

I already said that we were inaccurate in front of goal.

There is a difference between being accurate and being efficient.

Last quarter we were accurate.
1st quarter we were not.

Last quarter we were not efficient.
1st quarter we were.

No this is a classic case of using stats to show efficiency from inside 50 entries.  That is conversion to scoring correct?

Yet, I'm talking about something different (but more important).  Taking your actual chances when you create them and get a mark in front or even on a slight angle, and im not talking about stuff like cripps 55 metre effort from the boundary, or Charlie trying to kick it from 60 at the mcc members stand.  I'm talking about Jessie 30 out directly in front.  Harry on a slight angle 45 metres out, hollands, 40 metres out, owies not making the distance from 45 directly in front. 

We needed the repeat entries to create the scoring opportunities and were forcing it in to keep it in and score.

I've been in Newmans position before and given away a free kick for the same thing.

The bloke who got a free kick for it against me was actually an old school mate.
We talked about it afterwards.

He essentially falls backwards into me, deliberately, and instinct makes you try and catch them. They keep pushing back into you and your instinct is to hold them otherwise they will fall into you and your legs, potentially causing injury.

Its smart play if you get a free kick out of it.

Next time someone tries that, you simply side step them and let them fall and they look like a goose.
It should only work once.

Not sure if its been mentioned or not, but i wouldn't be surprised if McGovern misses next week with concussion.

He copped a knee/shin to the back of the head, you can see the collingwood bloke holding his leg in pain.
He took a long time to take his shot and spent a lot of time rubbing and shaking his head.
Obviously, his kick was terrible.

Reminded me of when Robbie Warnock did similarly against Geelong many years ago after getting punched in the head. IIRC he missed everything too, or at least barely got a point. He was talked about as being soft on the night. Ended up spending the night in hospital.

That's what I thought as well. Could of played dazed and given the kick to someone else. Maybe he wanted to be the hero and kick the winning goal as he did for Adelaide a few years ago. Not sure who the kick could of gone to but it may of been a lot closer to scoring than the howler that it was.

Watched the McGovern kick after the siren, FMD could not have kicked it any worse if he tried.

So your issues with my stats, are not with my stats, they are that you think there are other issues. Which i've never said there weren't.

What i'm showing you stats wise, is simply data. Its up to you/us to interpret it and ask why and what does it mean.

Part of the problem of not turning shots into scores can be as simple as putting it in the wrong spots or giving it to the wrong people......or simply kicking it directly to the opposition.

There is no point getting an inside 50 if its to a bloke on the boundary, 45m out who won't make the distance.
There is no point getting an inside 50 if its to a 3 on 1 and the opposition clear it straight after.
There is no point getting an inside 50 if its directly to the opposition.

If you want to make the most of your opportunities, then get better opportunities.

Watched the McGovern kick after the siren, FMD could not have kicked it any worse if he tried.

your stats are fine their value is bogus.

Those repeat efforts build pressure to create the opportunities you do score from.

Being better at it is one facet, but the value of converting good opportunities outweighs whatever your stats were trying to convey.

So....repeat entries create pressure and help us score....sure.....even though we scored more when we didn't need repeat entries.

Not sure what you think you are trying to say, but i'd back the stats over whatever you are trying to spin.

who's spinning?

We kicked 5 goals 1 in quarter 4.

We kicked 1 goal 8 in quarter one.

But we were more efficient in the first because our 9 scoring shots came without the domination?  Is that what you're saying?  Don't know how valuable that is, but I can distinctly recall looking at 3.11 at half time and stating we should be 6 goals 8.

Scoring is not the problem.

We are the highest scoring team in the league.

Yes, it's like a Teague / Ratten profile. 1st in points for, 14th in points against (i.e 5th worst in the league). That's stark. Not sure where the leak is occuring, or if there's multiple leaks in different parts of the ground.

We had the ball inside 50 an extra 8 times in the 4th quarter and hit the scoreboard 3 times less than the 1st.
We were more accurate with our shots on goal as we converted them. But we were not efficient with our inside 50 entries.
Had we have been more efficient, we should've generated an extra 6 shots than we did that quarter. Even if we were inaccurate with those shots, we still win.

We need to work out why our inside 50's didn't result in more shots on goals. Not simply be happy that we kicked straighter as that papers over the cracks.

Kernahan 93 lol.

Bad kicking is bad football.   We outplayed them in the first Q, but had nothing to show for it.  Outplayed them in the last Q, and capitalsied on it.   They outplayed us in Q2 and 3 and hit the scoreboard

It is still a big worry how easily we get openned up, when the oppo slingshot against us.  Just waltze thru the middle, with 3 or 4 players running, against 1 of ours.  Esp (as someone earlier said), when its someone dynamic like Degoey.  None of our mids have that explosion like him.    Although the Hawks lost, they did a lot of this v GWS, and we need to somehow stop it, or we could get scored against heavily.   commentators kept menitoning pies scoring 3 or 4 goals from kick ins.  this should NOT happen. they made us work so hard to get it out from a kick in, and we let them run it thru the corridor

We dont look dangerous entering f50 - even when we have a break, and a numbers advantage.  we just dont score easily, its always tough work.

other teams have worked out that centre clearances are our strenght, and they are stopping it (sometimes borderline illegally with cameron just grabbing pitto at each bounce, and crippa and walsh being faceguarded),  but it is working.  even allowing the pies to walk away with easy possessions, when the clearance didnt go our way

still like to lay some blame on umpiring (cox with 4 touches, 2 being bsht frees and one being that "mark"....   charlie didnt play well, but wasnt helped by being blocked and held off the ball, every time a chance to fly occurred.....)  and some lucky (for them) and unlucky (for us) bounces...........

Maybe it’s time for Charlie to become Kouta like and not a stay at home full forward.

+1.

Been saying that - swap Harry, Charlie and Martin around,

Harry goes deeper...Martin closer to goal and Charlie in Martin's high half forward role.

Charlie in D50, or Harry in the Ruck and D50, is a win for the opposition not a win for us.

It's pointless fans complaining that we had 1 goal between them, when they are in range of goals.

We took a clear A-Grade strength, and turned it into a B-Grade weakness.

All those "terrific 1st Qtr I50s", barely crossed the 50m line, it's a lie of statistics, our entries were shallow and wide and largely ineffective.

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.
Charlie got 100% of his possessions in our forward half.
Harry got 77% of his in the the forward half as well.

Curnow is one of our longest and most accurate kicks.

Forward half at the MCG can be +80m from goal at the spine, +100m if you are out at the boundary.

@Thryleon has already explained to you, as have I on many occasions, why there is nothing wrong with the numbers. It's how they are interpreted and the meaning being applied to them by various people that can be completely bogus! ;)

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.
Charlie got 100% of his possessions in our forward half.
Harry got 77% of his in the the forward half as well.

the fact its 100% and 77% inside F50 is remarkable. I'd expect that to be a lot less on a given day, especially since Harry was rucking as well.

Thanks for that.

Saves me going back to older posts to highlight your behaviour, you delivered this in just the space of 5 messages, and you do it all the time, making little tweaks to your "Facts" while asserting everybody else is posting crap!

You've never made an error?
(You don't need to answer that, we know the answer)

If thats your big 'gotcha' moment, i feel sorry for you.

Again, don't make me bring up your 'facts' - ostrich.

I forgive mistakes, I also admit them, but it's not a mistake with you as it happens too often.

You go to war over lies that you post, and then when things get tough you start making personal slurs.

I forgive mistakes, I also admit them

Some people will give Saad votes, but he had a Barry Crocker, I wouldn't guess but I suspect a significant percentage of Saad's own possessions were fixing his feck ups. He'll get credit for that and he'll get votes, but it burns opportunities, by the time he's fixed things the opposition are set and we can't score.

In recent weeks he has defended well, but his ball use has become Boweresque, the fans need to lay off the Whoosh as it's gone to his head.

Players 5m away from the nearest opponent(or anybody) dropping chest marks, sure they clean it up but the wasted seconds are terminal.

Blokes in unhindered clear space tripping over the footy, nobody in the vicinity, pick the fecking thing up before anything else!

was thinking, during the game, that saad doesnt get off the chain like he used to.  isnt taking on defenders and isnt trying to pierce the oppo with his kicks.   on the other side, yes, he was uncharacteristically sloppy

the number of fumbles and dropped easy marks, esp in defense, really stood out.  maybe just one of those nights.  it is catching once it starts.  it both cost goals to them,  as well as putting a halt to a scoring chain for us

Saad is playing injured.

Every week he stays down for longer than he should and is under duress.
Not sure the nature of it, other than 'leg', but he is far from 100% IMO.
I'm surprised he is as effective as he has been considering his legs are his weapon.

Rolled his ankle a few weeks  back....Playing injured?...I suspect he's not Robinson Crusoe.

Curnow is one of our longest and most accurate kicks.
He doesn't need to be within 30-40 metres of the goal...especially if it's being lobbed on his head.
Our small forwards don't take a lot of advantage of balls spilled in front of goals.

Saw some stats that he drops into the 30% or less when he’s more than 40m from goal

That surprises me.
Because he's pretty good with those long range swings on goal.
His field kicking to targets when he's well out from goal is good too.

Can someone / anyone answer the following:
1) we cant our forwards take pack marks?????
2) Why cant our backs stop forwards taking pack marks??
3) why do we continually kick the ball to a pack in the forward line.
4) why dont our forwards lead
5) why dont our small forwards crumb

why, why why and one more thing why


The above confusion and frustrate me so (swear word) much.

AND (take a breath) gutted watching that gane, trying to win in 10 mins of footy. Spare me.

I know H and Charlie get smashed continuously when going for mark but I’ve noticed with both of them they seem to be easy to push over Or out wrestle. Neither seems like that big brute Forward.  Whilst of course there are advantages to being more agile to move easier and faster, a bit more being able to stick solid on the spot or in the least make it very difficult for someone to push you aside.

#1 is answered by #3.
#2 is because the opposition dont do #3
#4 because of #3
#5 partly because the opposition are better at it, knowing #3.

Coaches' votes :

9 Patrick Cripps (CARL)
6 Scott Pendlebury (COLL)
5 Nick Daicos (COLL)
3 George Hewett (CARL)
3 Darcy Cameron (COLL)
2 Jeremy Howe (COLL)
1 Darcy Moore (COLL)
1 Jacob Weitering (CARL)

In a way, I'm super happy for Cripps. He deserves all the awards and success he gets. In another way, I really wish we had others taking votes off him. We had a great patch where we had contributions across the board. We now seem to have gone back to "No Cripps, Walsh, Weitering etc, no Carlton."

Carlton conceded 31 points from kick-ins and defensive 50 stoppages against Collingwood. The league average is 12. Their ability to defend the stoppage game is the worst in the competition.

“As a coach, they’re fixable – kick-in goals and defensive 50 stoppages… they should be the easiest thing to tidy up,” Lyon continued.

The Blues rank 17th in the competition for points against from clearance and dead last for points against from defensive 50 stoppages.