Carlton Supporters Club

5 years out of the last 6 we have utterly capitulated in the last part of the season. Each one of those years we have been crippled by injury. Each one of those years Russell has been there.

Even in 2020/21we were a chance at making the 8 five games out and capitulated. 2022 capitulated and lost our last 4, this year, 2nd premiership favourites, or close to, capitulated and lost 5 from the last 6.

At least, finally, we will be forced to play Binns, Lord, etc, rather than picking half fit, out of form players. We might actually find something we could have used week ago.

Frauds. Apart from last year fails when it matters at the pointy end and why i just cant trust this club regardless how good we look at certain stages of the year. Beaten well by a team in the first few years of their rebuild says more then anything. And to be the outsider to them pre game is so frustrating as a long blues suffering supporter.
Only just beaten north in the last 6 weeks. Cant blame injuries for that. Just not good enough for long enough. List is way too slow and we need some ballsy big name changes in the off season to improve. Leaving things as they are will leave us again mid table in 2025.

Our list as it stands is not even close to getting it done folks. 

Thank God that's over. A game seemingly tailor made for the Craig McRae windscreen wiper analogy - just wipe it away, forget about it and move on. I can't see what there is to review. On second thought, I can - for the last 3 quarters, everything that could go wrong, did go wrong. The End.

Something crook in tootgarook.

You won't be running out games and putting yourself in a winning position when you have a total of 49 interchanges for the game.

Billy Wilson, Ashton Moir, Jaxon Binns even Harry Lemmey have proven to be durable.

We were cooked before the injuries. We couldn't catch them and if we did we couldn't tackle them.

You won't be running out games and putting yourself in a winning position when you have a total of 49 interchanges for the game.

The lack of rotations so early in the piece snuffed out whatever chance we had of being competitive IMO.

Well that was terrible. Regardless of what happens now the season is over. Martin, Cunners and Marchy must be moved on we simply can't play three short for another season. Our lack of speed is a real concern as is our second key back, Kemp is not the guy.

You mean like the whole team getting around McGovern after he missed a gettable shot to win the game last week. Closed ranks. Win together, fail together. Etc.

So what does he do to repay the team? Gives a gobfull to a teammate who was apparently to blame for his own inability to spoil his opponent.

Disgraceful.

Just maybe....
Some star player will be leaving at the end of the year, hasn't been made public yet but the other players have heard about it 5-6 weeks ago and now don't really want to play hard for him???
Trying to join the dots to explain the drastic drop off.

Oh you mean Crippa? Potentially. Having a baby changes peoples. His wife’s family and his are all in WA.

:-[

Who is available next week? Cowan, Motlop, O.Hollands, Williams, Kennedy, Cripps, McKay, McGovern,  Acres, Carroll, Kemp, Walsh, Durdin, O.Hollands, Weitering, Newman, Pittonet, Hewitt, Young, Cincotta and Owies. Leaves Binns and Lemmey to make up the numbers and someone else to travel. Move McGovern up forward, play Young down back and play Binns and Lemmey. Durdin to be the sub.

Well, it seems likely our coaches will be forced to try out several of our seconds who are yet to debut.   

They may not be ready, but with 1/2 doz injuries there may be no other choice. 

Ab

ps. many of us will watch the outcome with interest.

Billy Wilson is lightning quick and Binns can run all day.  That will add some missing spark. 

Boyd another one we've sunk effort who gets injured too often.  I can understand carrying an injured gun like Charlie or Walsh, but Boyd?  FMD, he isn't exactly a young Chris Johnson in the BP.

It’s not just injuries

Our list lacks athleticism/power and pace.
Key defensive stocks shot, 5-10 players completely overpaid and injury prone and we lack ticker.
Voss gameplan was cut to ribbons by a far better coach.
Miles off I’m afraid
All on the trading block to clean this up

The first person who should front up to the CEO and President tomorrow morning, is the Head of Football. Been a problem for years.

We actually did ok in the hitouts and stoppages where it was even in the main, our troubles came when the ball was in open play where we fooled around with it too much, turned it over and ended up chasing tail and getting caught by the harder working Hawks on the overlap and eventually we stopped chasing and then ran out of gas completely when the bench was so depleted.
Didnt see Pittonet as a bad player and I thought he broke even with Meek who has been dominating, both he and the maligned often dropped, often made sub Kennedy can hold their heads up as players who fought it out imo.
re: Voss....normally Id question his tactics and lacks of moves but I thought we were out worked and were happy to play a non physical keepings off game where we couldnt generate enough run to penetrate the Hawks defense but took the easy short kick in an arc around the 50m mark racking up stats but going nowhere apart from when Cripps tried to do too much out of frustration and barge his way through their defense.
Lot of talk about Russell but there needs to be more talk about the list management and composition of the list and lack of depth.
A lot of these injury prone players were injury prone when they were recruited and thats where the mistakes where made....
The midfield needs an overhaul and while you always need contested players we need contested players with pace and who kick goals......

As far as depth went we had a bucketful injuries this year and still managed to sit 2nd.  Depth is ok. The problem is this constant barrage of injuries had been happening for years. Not just this year or this game  Russell's been there for 6 of them. It's no coincidence that 4 of the last 5 years we have a shot at the 8 earlier, on a shot at a flag  this year, as you are when you 2nd for so long, then crash in a heap games out. As happens when  with injuries you run out of fitness at the end of a long year. More disappointing given we were a genuine threat 6 weeks ago. Who saw this when we sat 2nd then kicked 8.4 in the first qtr against GWS.

Stings more this year as we had such hope.

We played in a Prelim last year but we had Doc, Cerra, TDK, Martin, Cottrell in good form fit and healthy.

Walshy is out of form he is that line breaking goal kicking mid and is a good one at that.. healthiest and strongest list that have been together for a while win flags enter Geelong and Collingwood.. we are almost there just need better luck or better management to improve the health of players so the team can build cohesion.

Who is it currently?

I flew out for Europe on the 29th June after we handed out consecutive 10 goal floggings sitting pretty in second, I thought life was good. I returned last night to watch us capitulate out of the 8 today (We have gone LLWLLL).
I can't see us winning the next two, if you had have told me on the 1st of July we would miss the 8 I would have laughed in your face.
I dont know what else to say, I cannot understand or pinpoint what has gone wrong, perhaps last year was indeed as good as it gets for the this group.
There needs to be a clean out of blokes who cannot stay out on the park (we all know who they are) and replace them with anyone with a pulse and who can play more than 1 in a row.

The critical issue is not losing like we did tonight, as depressing as it was. All teams have shockers (think the Swans last week). The critical issue is whether we can bounce back in the last 2 games. And that in my view is a very open question.

I can’t see it.

It felt - watching them today - that it felt all too hard for them so I don’t see us winning.

Maybe they’re demoralised because they know the season ending injury count is way too high and feel it’s inevitable that it won’t be their year?

I disagree about the earlier suggestion re them not playing well because rumours of Cripps leaving - they’re professional athletes and if they had a shot  at finals and premiership, they’re not just going to give them up being sooks because someone is leaving at seasons end. They want success now and would strive for it particularly if, as it’s suggested Cripps is going, he’s still playing his arse off.

I generally agree Micky. It will be tough from here on in. Apart from today and the Sydney game, the boys have been competitive and been right in most games. There's 8 quarters left of the H/A season, and hopefully they have enough gas to fight it out to the end.

Agree on Cripps. He's contracted till the end of 2027 - that's 3 full seasons away. He's on big money, plus captain, plus a slew of awards and personal accolades. It would take a lot to get us to agree to a trade, but even if we did, do the two WA clubs have what it takes to get a deal happening ? And why would he go to WC ? They have no coach, and he will be down the bottom in a struggling team just like he was here in the early days.

We need to persist with youngsters that can stay on the park.
Play Moir and persist with him in Jack Martin\s role he has talent to burn
Give Billy Wilson a run in Saad's role
Give Jaxon Binns a run in Cottrell's role

I saw this one coming and can’t see any more wins in 2023. This is a season failure. Injuries have hurt us but we have only beaten a bottom 4 side in the last 5 weeks. The side that lost to West Coast that we play next.

When we suffer a humiliating loss, we all look for answers as to how that could have occurred.

Was it lack of run, lack of pressure, coaching inadequacies or lack of depth?
Sometimes the right answer is the most obvious one.
It’s injuries!!

Every aspect of the loss can be traced back to injuries.
When you lose a player to injury you don‘t just lose that player.
You lose a part of every other player who has to sacrifice a part of their contribution to cover that absence.

The “one soldier out, one soldier in.” is another bit of nonsense. The replacement player is nearly always a lesser player. The injured player is ahead of them and in the side, either in terms of ability or what they offer in terms of team structure.

If everyone else has to step up, especially with ‘in-game’ injuries –
You lose 'run' through fatigue.
Your ability to get to contests and to apply pressure is affected by fatigue
Coaching options are less.
Your depth is challenged.
…and all that presents mental and physical challenges for the players not directly affected by injury.

That’s with one injury.
Now multiply that by a dozen, either injured pre-match or during the game…and then add in the players playing injured for weeks on end... and you’re in strife.

We’re in deep strife, for no other reason than we are decimated.

For weeks people have been observing that 'Charlie had turned lazy.' Charlie has been playing injured for weeks. Brad Lloyd said 'a number of weeks' which translated into 'Carlton speak' means at least  6! Walsh is definitely hampered, I'd suspect with a back problem, I can't use his best weapon.... pace and quick reaction therefore he gets caught a lot and is restricted in his delivery. To win premierships you need a consistent list, a high degree of talent, no injuries and a fair bit of luck. What chance did we have.

His discussion pre-game about Chuck on SEN sounded as if he couldn't run until late in the week.  He was never fit.  It was very desperate stakes and maybe we should have just blown it and got ready for next with fresh players.  I know that's an anathema to the processes, but maybe it was the week to try a different forward set up - Kennedy, Lemmey etc

If we're honest with ourselves, taking off the blue coloured glasses, the Dawks had our measure well before the injuries started. They had all their blokes on the same page... an entire side versus our individuals. No doubt the injuries inflated the winning margin for the Dawks but they clearly had our measure early.

For weeks people have been observing that 'Charlie had turned lazy.' Charlie has been playing injured for weeks. Brad Lloyd said 'a number of weeks' which translated into 'Carlton speak' means at least  6! Walsh is definitely hampered, I'd suspect with a back problem, I can't use his best weapon.... pace and quick reaction therefore he gets caught a lot and is restricted in his delivery. To win premierships you need a consistent list, a high degree of talent, no injuries and a fair bit of luck. What chance did we have.

They were the better side early on...
But a side will often be the better side early on, and the match will turn on it's head with a momentum switch.
What the injuries meant was that there was never going to be that momentum change...and as the match wore on it became even more depressing as players went down.
As well as the obvious injuries there were another couple where players felt for knees (Williams) and shoulders (Acres).

I watched Voss' press conference very closely.  I thought his comments about various aspects of "consistency" were illuminating.  Consistency of effort, application of system, concentration and availability weren't good enough before he joins the club, and still aren't.  I thought it was very insightful.

If there's one thing the Dawks have demonstrated over the past couple of months is that their pressure and game style is sustained. Our history over most of this season is that we're terribly inconsistent. The extent of the Dawks winning margin can in part be attributed to our injury toll... but not the loss.

So the questions remain:

Who is responsible for our always-injured players being retained?
Who is responsible for putting injured players back before they’re ready?
Who is responsible for the fitness of our players?

Because that’s been a complete Fail.

Or is it a matter we recruited X amount of alwsys injured players then tried to paper over the issues until it overcame us?

Yet they were run over by GWS in the last quarter last week so they aren't invincible. They were beatable. We were never in a position to turn things around once the injuries started to impact.

If we're honest with ourselves, taking off the blue coloured glasses, the Dawks had our measure well before the injuries started. They had all their blokes on the same page... an entire side versus our individuals. No doubt the injuries inflated the winning margin for the Dawks but they clearly had our measure early. What Mitchell has done with a reasonable list in short time is impressive. We've been at it for years.

If we're honest with ourselves, apart from the Pussycats game (and they were out of form), we've not been consistently convincing for a very long time. If you Wikipedia 'inconsistent' you'll find an image of us.

At our best we could beat anyone, but you could say that of any of the top 10 or so sides. Our best was and is too easily quelled by opposition sides that bring serious, persistent heat - the body of evidence for this is considerable. 

Leadership. Sayers and Cook seem to be doing an excellent job. All departments within the club seem to be performing well. Except the football department. Our sales, media and marketing departments seem to be delivering a sustained high level.

Leadership: Unlike some I don't see the on-field issues lying with coaching, in particular the senior coach. Is he getting the support he needs? As far as the on-field performance stuff goes, the buck stops with Brad Lloyd. Personally, I was surprised he kept his job 2 years ago when the major restructure took place. Was the Terrier a scapegoat? And let's not get started on the MC.
                                                                                                                        

Great post. Fans and even the media over focus on our best performances believing that our true standard but its not and its been proven with this list since the rebuild started. Last 2 narrow wins in the finals were very good wins but could easily have gone the other way yet we hang our hat on them thinking we automatically improve this year while everyone else stand still. We needed to make important changes during the offseason and while E Hollands was a great get it wasnt enough. 

We are flakey and easily coached against and rely on the brilliance of a few of our stars. We are way too slow whenever the ball gets out of congestion and opposition teams know it and we are powerless to counter it.

Need min 3 decent users with genuine leg speed, cut the dead wood and i hope we don't just think the campo boys are the answer there as they are not. We need to be ballsy and be willing to do whatever it takes at the trade table if we want to improve on this year or 2025 will mimic this year and be another fail.
    

I watched us score wins against real sides in games that counted....

Lions rnd 1
GWS
Freo when up early in year
Port on own dungheap
Cheats when flying
Geelong
Dees with Petracca et al.

Don't tell me they were fluked or sneaky wins.

TdK gets taken down then the dynamic totally changes....  Can't defend, can't spread, can't win centre clearances, suddenly too slow to defend on transition.

Change a few key personnel - look how quickly the dynamic changed, there's our true fragility

Painted ourselves into a corner with long term deals so the trade table for us is the $2 bin at the player reject shop with players like Haynes.

I watched us score wins against real sides in games that counted....

Lions rnd 1
GWS
Freo when up early in year
Port on own dungheap
Cheats when flying
Geelong
Dees with Petracca et al.

Don't tell me they were fluked or sneaky wins.

TdK gets taken down then the dynamic totally changes....  Can't defend, can't spread, can't win centre clearances, suddenly too slow to defend on transition.

Change a few key personnel - look how quickly the dynamic changed, there's our true fragility

Multiple time as the weekend Harry takes the footy from overhead to waist high more than once at the weekend, gets tunnelled or pummelled, and the pill gets dislodged usually by body contact with another player, the umpires call play on.

A player takes an arms up overhead mark that is punched clear before even a second ticks by, and the umpires pay the mark.

Harry holds the footy 2x longer and isn't rewarded, we need to be asking the questions now in advance of next season.

We need to persist with youngsters that can stay on the park.
Play Moir and persist with him in Jack Martin\s role he has talent to burn
Give Billy Wilson a run in Saad's role
Give Jaxon Binns a run in Cottrell's role

For weeks people have been observing that 'Charlie had turned lazy.' Charlie has been playing injured for weeks. Brad Lloyd said 'a number of weeks' which translated into 'Carlton speak' means at least  6! Walsh is definitely hampered, I'd suspect with a back problem, I can't use his best weapon.... pace and quick reaction therefore he gets caught a lot and is restricted in his delivery. To win premierships you need a consistent list, a high degree of talent, no injuries and a fair bit of luck. What chance did we have.

The AFL would never admit it, but the "free-kick-Curnow" uproar late last year has effected the way the umpires look at Charlie and H.  They are both still getting the odd free, but never 2 in a row, and really never 2 in a quarter.  the oppo know they can tunnel/chop/block them and only 10% of them will be called

The AFL would never admit it, but the "free-kick-Curnow" uproar late last year has effected the way the umpires look at Charlie and H.  They are both still getting the odd free, but never 2 in a row, and really never 2 in a quarter.  the oppo know they can tunnel/chop/block them and only 10% of them will be called

Noticed the same thing.

Been hearing this for the last 10 years. How many times can we blame bad luck or lack or personnel.

We lost many games when the injury list was not what it is now.
As a club we continued to persist with guys on pit list that just cant stay on the park for any sort of extended time without breaking down so it's our fault its not luck.

And then we go out last year and waste a spot on another one in the same basket.

Thinking about the game again, watch the opening minute and you will see what's wrong with the team.
First centre bounce, ball hits the deck, Pitto becomes useless, Meek picks it up, runs away and kicks it fwd, our slow mids trailing  the Hawthorn players. IIRC, Newman leaves his man unnecessarily, loose players everywhere in the fwd line and the opening goal ensues.
Our defence has been terrible for weeks and again nothing is corrected, not even at the opening bounce of a do or die game. If you ask my household (or my neighbours) about my opening play comments and level they were delivered at and I knew how our day was going to pan out (even if we didn't get any injuries). Defences win premierships, ours has cost us an opportunity at one.

Leigh Montagna has been very critical of our defense and the ease of which Hawthorn penetrated and lack of effort on our behalf.

Many experts have pointed it out and reckon its an easy fix. Yeah right.

I was listening to most of it on ABC.  Interesting that Harford and Murphy were talking about our lack of cohesion coming out of defence and we were making things up to get the ball out.  It has been like that for some time as others have also commented.

It is this cohesion that we have lacked - we are great when we have the cohesion, but when it is missing we look ordinary and struggle a lot.  So many things haven't ultimately worked this season.

I also think that we (the fans, media and maybe the club) massively inflated our win over Tigers (hindsight is wonderful).  Tigers have been obviously pretty ordinary, so shouldn't hold a great deal of weight and maybe cracks were overlooked.

I can cross September footy out of the diary now!

We need blokes like H and Charlie to wear ultra-stretchy jumpers, sure opponents can grab them easier but it sticks out like dog's ballz to the umpire!

The skin tight kit shizen is wrong thinking, it's a generalisation, suits some positions and players, is exactly wrong for others!

From a couple of things I've been reading apparently Russell exponentially increased training loads over the last 6 weeks in preparation for finals.

Is 2nd hand info though.

From a couple of things I've been reading apparently Russell exponentially increased training loads over the last 6 weeks in preparation for finals.

Is 2nd hand info though.

We are going to get a lot of these rumours.

From a 2nd party was told a busted up between Russell and Voss ended with Russell resigning.

"Essentially Voss pulled rank on a few injury calls with some of their senior players. Russell's response was "if you aren't listening to my advice, my role is pointless."

Full football department review upcoming"

We are going to get a lot of these rumours.

From a 2nd party was told a busted up between Russell and Voss ended with Russell resigning.

"Essentially Voss pulled rank on a few injury calls with some of their senior players. Russell's response was "if you aren't listening to my advice, my role is pointless."

Full football department review upcoming"

I just see this has happened for 6 years now, not just this year. More are talking now about the 6 weeks block of increased training load then the resignation.

Like this one and the Voss/Russell one, as Shakin has said, it is all still rumour. I'm sure one of the 2 is right. Just a matter of which one. Bottom line is someone has ##@$@! up big time and may have cost a flag. It cooked us.

Think we were cooked when TDK went down injured weeks ago.....lot of talk about injured players but I think Hawthorn are peaking in form and we would have been struggling with them even with a fit team.
The defense is a fail, a complete mess and whether that is a player issue or a tactical one I dont know...

I just see this has happened for 6 years now, not just this year. More are talking now about the 6 weeks block of increased training load then the resignation.

Like this one and the Voss/Russell one, as Shakin has said, it is all still rumour. I'm sure one of the 2 is right. Just a matter of which one. Bottom line is someone has ##@$@! up big time and may have cost a flag. It cooked us.

You were fine to nail Russell with just a rumour but it's a different tune when it involves Voss.

We are going to get a lot of these rumours.

From a 2nd party was told a busted up between Russell and Voss ended with Russell resigning.

"Essentially Voss pulled rank on a few injury calls with some of their senior players. Russell's response was "if you aren't listening to my advice, my role is pointless."

Full football department review upcoming"

Unlike everyone else.....

I'm assuming you made this up on the spot to prove a point.

Everyone else seems to have picked it up and ran with it. Lets see if it makes the news tonight!

Nope.    I didn't make this up.

Genuine source?

....and this didn't come from some random at the bar.

Genuine source?

You were fine to nail Russell with just a rumour but it's a different tune when it involves Voss.

I don't believe he would make it up.    Has good sources with the mob who smashed us on the weekend.   Russell's former employer.

History tells you a story. Those who ignore history a doomed to repeat it. 6 years!  Besides I mention to Shakin that it could be his possibility. Whatever it is it has cooked our season. Someone has to be responsible.

Who do you think made the call on Charlie to play on the weekend?

The high performance manager who just quit
The coach
The doctor

I'd like to hear from the Terrier himself, or bona fide confirmed sources. Until then these rumours are all just 3/7ths of FA.

If that was true then Voss should clear out his desk.

There's something about all this simplistic finger pointing that just doesn't add up. When you consider the number of stakeholders involved, it's just can't be that cut and dried, at least if my knowledge of human behaviour is anything to go by.

Agree however since they rushed Cotters and cerra back too early and made George and Kennedy subs, something started to stink….

Agree however since they rushed Cotters and cerra back too early and made George and Kennedy subs, something started to stink….

Maybe, but I'd still like a clear read on the interactions between the various stakeholders in these situations. What if the player declares they are tip top, smashes all the fitness tests etc., what then ? Do they still get held back ? How does one distinguish between a "niggle" and a genuine injury, when the player appears to be moving freely and without pain ? I can't imagine these issues are just black and white.

When you are a game and a half clear in second place.....you bring them back through the VFL.....half a game at a time if you need too.

No reason to do anything other than that.

Yep, it was weird.

It's not hindsight either I could find my posts questioning it.

Kennedy made a miraculous recovery from having his leg amputating by a ruckman last week, but we should've rested him (unless Hewett is more injured) and we should swap that next week.
Get everyone right for finals.

Swap TDK and Pittonet next week and let TDKs ankle recover.

I know i said it nice and early.

'NOW is the time you start resting players who have a niggle and get them right for finals.'

Need a win this weekend like our life depends on it - more so to settle everyone down after a long string of bad luck

Needed a win like their life depended on it on the weekend, the week before that, the week before that...

There's something about all this simplistic finger pointing that just doesn't add up. When you consider the number of stakeholders involved, it's just can't be that cut and dried, at least if my knowledge of human behaviour is anything to go by.

Let's hope a fresh group of players hits the game with some adrenaline. Then hope for the best.

Can't believe we sat 6pts clear in 2nd, then the week after kick 8.4 in the first qtr. I was sure a flag was right in our grasp as their wad no one better than us Fast forward 23 qtrs and that let down is just shattering.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V27Hr7LMJ3o

I just can’t listen to Lloyd talk about issues at Carlton - his conflict is glaring.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V27Hr7LMJ3o

Agree however since they rushed Cotters and cerra back too early and made George and Kennedy subs, something started to stink….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V27Hr7LMJ3o

Tim Clarke to move on that opens the door for Ebert or Lonergan. Just not good enough in the coalface this year. We allowed the ball move to the outside from stoppage so easily and so frequently

I watched that YT clip also but didn't get much from it as Caro, Cornes and Hutchy were all talking over each other.

The best analyses of our woes I found coming from Jordan Lewis and Luke Hodge. Worth a watch. Something about the perspectives from those who've been there and done it that has more credibility.

I watched that YT clip also but didn't get much from it as Caro, Cornes and Hutchy were all talking over each other.

Many of our issues are collision injuries, not the "Fitness" issue Hunchy, Caro and the other ambulance chasers want to paint.

And Russell is not a miracle worker, I would like to see how someone like Martin is managed at his next club if we in fact move him on. Couldnt get him on the park at GC, we havent been able to get him on the park either, there is a common denominator here. Same for Marchbank, Cunningham, Fantasia etc.

And Russell is not a miracle worker, I would like to see how someone like Martin is managed at his next club if we in fact move him on. Couldnt get him on the park at GC, we havent been able to get him on the park either, there is a common denominator here. Same for Marchbank, Cunningham, Fantasia etc.

Its been a bit of an ongoing joke that these injury prone players we have wouldnt have played many games together but its a sad reality of what the S&C staff as well as coaches and MC have had to deal with and we have been running with a smaller list than most other clubs for years now in terms of availability and its come back to bite us.
For me its a recruiting and list management issue and Russell is a more minor issue, its just a shame its all come to a head in a season we were a genuine premiership contender. Core Players who needed a rest cant have one becuase we have such a large group of permanently injured players we have to carry and we lack depth in key areas.
The lack of KP depth is appalling imo.....just gambling with fate that Charlie, Harry and Weitering never get injured was always a high risk strategy and this mania for recruiting wingman and small bodied players is frustrating.

Many of our issues are collision injuries, not the "Fitness" issue Hunchy, Caro and the other ambulance chasers want to paint.

Its been a bit of an ongoing joke that these injury prone players we have wouldnt have played many games together but its a sad reality of what the S&C staff as well as coaches and MC have had to deal with and we have been running with a smaller list than most other clubs for years now in terms of availability and its come back to bite us.
For me its a recruiting and list management issue and Russell is a more minor issue, its just a shame its all come to a head in a season we were a genuine premiership contender. Core Players who needed a rest cant have one becuase we have such a large group of permanently injured players we have to carry and we lack depth in key areas.
The lack of KP depth is appalling imo.....just gambling with fate that Charlie, Harry and Weitering never get injured was always a high risk strategy and this mania for recruiting wingman and small bodied players is frustrating.

Its been a bit of an ongoing joke that these injury prone players we have wouldnt have played many games together but its a sad reality of what the S&C staff as well as coaches and MC have had to deal with and we have been running with a smaller list than most other clubs for years now in terms of availability and its come back to bite us.
For me its a recruiting and list management issue and Russell is a more minor issue, its just a shame its all come to a head in a season we were a genuine premiership contender. Core Players who needed a rest cant have one becuase we have such a large group of permanently injured players we have to carry and we lack depth in key areas.
The lack of KP depth is appalling imo.....just gambling with fate that Charlie, Harry and Weitering never get injured was always a high risk strategy and this mania for recruiting wingman and small bodied players is frustrating.

Injury prone players can be sorted with good recovery, good rehab and the right training load. Most injury prone types, not all, often get right and have good longevity. We continue to get it wrong and have done so for years. Even Patty Cummins, after 6 years out, hasn't missed a Test since, is captain and one of the greats, although different sport and not soft tissue.

Five minutes before quarter-time against Greater Western Sydney early last month, the Carlton juggernaut was rolling. A game and a half clear in second spot and leading by 39 points, the rampaging Blues appeared on track for a sixth straight victory with serious aspirations for a drought-breaking flag.

The events of the next two hours sent the Blues’ season into freefall. Second for much of June and July, the Blues are out of the eight midway through August, bruised, battered and almost broken, facing the distinct possibility of having September off.

Their finals bid became all that more difficult on Tuesday when they ruled out twin towers Charlie Curnow and Harry McKay, Adam Saad, Jack Martin, Lachie Fogarty and Jordan Boyd for the road trip to face West Coast on Sunday, meaning there will be at least six changes to the side.

Curnow, McKay, Saad and Martin are in contention to face St Kilda in the final round. The Eagles game is suddenly a 50-50 clash for the injury-ravaged Blues, who have 17 players in the casualty ward. A total of 11 players are missing from the team that lost to the Brisbane Lions in a preliminary final last year.

Where did the Blues’ season go so wrong?

The Blues’ troubles started at a time when they had close to a full list to choose from, except for the season-ending injuries to Sam Docherty and Jack Silvagni.

Seldom during Michael Voss’s time at Ikon Park has he had such player availability. This unusual situation gave Voss and his match committee the rare chance to tinker with the side, particularly in the midfield.

In the first of a series of eyebrow-raising moves, the Blues dropped proven ball-winner George Hewett for the game against the Giants, a week after starting him as the sub. Hewett had averaged 21 disposals in his previous five games before donning the sub’s vest. All were wins.

Despite the Blues’ midfield being comprehensively outplayed in the final three quarters by the Giants, there was no automatic recall for Hewett. Instead, the on-ball experiment continued with Matthew Kennedy starting as the sub the following week in the loss to the Western Bulldogs.

These calls came as they welcomed back Adam Cerra after six weeks out from a second hamstring strain – the fourth of five he had suffered since coming to Carlton for the 2022 season – to work out their best midfield mix, and Matthew Cottrell, a role player whose form had been patchy before injury.

Cerra was slow to get going, further exposing the Blues’ lack of ball-winners in the middle. He was later shifted to halfback before being hamstrung again. Alex Cincotta had been in hot form as a tagger but his effectiveness in that role tapered.

“It’s not just about putting out 23 of our best players. If that was the case, it would probably be a different discussion,” Voss said on the eve of the loss to the Giants about Hewett’s omission.

“We ask our players to be able to have a balance within their role as well. We are role-specific, we do need a system to be able to operate and that cohesion that we want to be able to have across the group … we’re trying to balance that always and find the best version of ourselves.

“If we’re having those conversations for the next eight or nine weeks of the home and away season, I’ll be pretty happy.”

Voss gave further insight to his exploratory mindset about the team when, asked after the loss to the Bulldogs about the conundrum of playing both Tom De Koning and Marc Pittonet, he said “we’re still evolving as a footy team, nothing’s set”.

As they experimented, gaping holes opened up in their play. The Blues’ game is built on contest and pressure. They became vulnerable in both areas. Their contested numbers plummeted from first across the opening 16 rounds to 10th since round 17. Their scores from clearance differential dropped from 11th to 16th. No team has leaked more from defensive 50 stoppages.

A defence that had been bottom six for scores conceded for much of the year, slumped to bottom four – hardly the profile of a premiership contender. This had been a strength in Voss’s first two years at Carlton, when they were sixth and fourth for points against.

Their fit list lasted about a week. Back line general Jacob Weitering suffered another corked thigh in the first term against the Giants in round 17, severely limiting his movement. His designated opponent, Jesse Hogan, monstered the undersized Brodie Kemp, booting five goals. Defender Mitch McGovern spent quarter-time seeking medical treatment for a hip injury that sidelined him for two weeks.

Charlie Curnow rolled an ankle in the warm-up before the Giants game and has not been the same player since. His injury gradually worsened, not helped by another mishap against Collingwood two weeks ago. The Blues rolled the dice by playing him against Hawthorn off a limited week on the track, and came up with snake eyes when Curnow aggravated the injury.

Voss defended the club’s handling of Curnow, saying only rest at the end of the season would resolve the issue. In hindsight, the Blues may wonder if he should have been rested, considering they won only one game in that time.

De Koning, 25, in his first season as the primary ruck, was showing signs of tiredness when his home-and-away campaign came to a thudding halt with a broken foot and a punctured lung against North Melbourne.

Not helped by a match-day illness to McKay and injury to one of their best runners Blake Acres, they ran out of legs off a five-day break against Port Adelaide, blowing a 31-point lead just before half-time.

Cerra and Saad have become less resilient since moving to Carlton. Only Richmond have lost more games to injury for their best 23 this season. Since round 17, the Blues are equal third for most players used.

Carlton’s season is not over. Wins against the Eagles and St Kilda would likely book them a finals berth in the manner few could have imagined in June.

So Charlie rolled his ankle warming up against the giants.  That port Adelaide performance just went up 5 levels.

Why because he kicked 3 goals?

He received 5 free kicks that game, not sure how many were turned into goals. That was the most for him this year. In fact he's only ever received more than that once in his career and that was peak 'free kick charlie' time, middle of last year.

Battered, bruised, almost broken: How Carlton’s season has soured
Five minutes before quarter-time against Greater Western Sydney early last month, the Carlton juggernaut was rolling. A game and a half clear in second spot and leading by 39 points, the rampaging Blues appeared on track for a sixth straight victory with serious aspirations for a drought-breaking flag.

The events of the next two hours sent the Blues’ season into freefall. Second for much of June and July, the Blues are out of the eight midway through August, bruised, battered and almost broken, facing the distinct possibility of having September off.

Their finals bid became all that more difficult on Tuesday when they ruled out twin towers Charlie Curnow and Harry McKay, Adam Saad, Jack Martin, Lachie Fogarty and Jordan Boyd for the road trip to face West Coast on Sunday, meaning there will be at least six changes to the side.

Curnow, McKay, Saad and Martin are in contention to face St Kilda in the final round. The Eagles game is suddenly a 50-50 clash for the injury-ravaged Blues, who have 17 players in the casualty ward. A total of 11 players are missing from the team that lost to the Brisbane Lions in a preliminary final last year.

Where did the Blues’ season go so wrong?

The Blues’ troubles started at a time when they had close to a full list to choose from, except for the season-ending injuries to Sam Docherty and Jack Silvagni.

Seldom during Michael Voss’s time at Ikon Park has he had such player availability. This unusual situation gave Voss and his match committee the rare chance to tinker with the side, particularly in the midfield.

In the first of a series of eyebrow-raising moves, the Blues dropped proven ball-winner George Hewett for the game against the Giants, a week after starting him as the sub. Hewett had averaged 21 disposals in his previous five games before donning the sub’s vest. All were wins.

Despite the Blues’ midfield being comprehensively outplayed in the final three quarters by the Giants, there was no automatic recall for Hewett. Instead, the on-ball experiment continued with Matthew Kennedy starting as the sub the following week in the loss to the Western Bulldogs.

These calls came as they welcomed back Adam Cerra after six weeks out from a second hamstring strain – the fourth of five he had suffered since coming to Carlton for the 2022 season – to work out their best midfield mix, and Matthew Cottrell, a role player whose form had been patchy before injury.

Cerra was slow to get going, further exposing the Blues’ lack of ball-winners in the middle. He was later shifted to halfback before being hamstrung again. Alex Cincotta had been in hot form as a tagger but his effectiveness in that role tapered.

“It’s not just about putting out 23 of our best players. If that was the case, it would probably be a different discussion,” Voss said on the eve of the loss to the Giants about Hewett’s omission.

“We ask our players to be able to have a balance within their role as well. We are role-specific, we do need a system to be able to operate and that cohesion that we want to be able to have across the group … we’re trying to balance that always and find the best version of ourselves.

“If we’re having those conversations for the next eight or nine weeks of the home and away season, I’ll be pretty happy.”

Voss gave further insight to his exploratory mindset about the team when, asked after the loss to the Bulldogs about the conundrum of playing both Tom De Koning and Marc Pittonet, he said “we’re still evolving as a footy team, nothing’s set”.

As they experimented, gaping holes opened up in their play. The Blues’ game is built on contest and pressure. They became vulnerable in both areas. Their contested numbers plummeted from first across the opening 16 rounds to 10th since round 17. Their scores from clearance differential dropped from 11th to 16th. No team has leaked more from defensive 50 stoppages.

A defence that had been bottom six for scores conceded for much of the year, slumped to bottom four – hardly the profile of a premiership contender. This had been a strength in Voss’s first two years at Carlton, when they were sixth and fourth for points against.

Their fit list lasted about a week. Back line general Jacob Weitering suffered another corked thigh in the first term against the Giants in round 17, severely limiting his movement. His designated opponent, Jesse Hogan, monstered the undersized Brodie Kemp, booting five goals. Defender Mitch McGovern spent quarter-time seeking medical treatment for a hip injury that sidelined him for two weeks.

Charlie Curnow rolled an ankle in the warm-up before the Giants game and has not been the same player since. His injury gradually worsened, not helped by another mishap against Collingwood two weeks ago. The Blues rolled the dice by playing him against Hawthorn off a limited week on the track, and came up with snake eyes when Curnow aggravated the injury.

Voss defended the club’s handling of Curnow, saying only rest at the end of the season would resolve the issue. In hindsight, the Blues may wonder if he should have been rested, considering they won only one game in that time.

De Koning, 25, in his first season as the primary ruck, was showing signs of tiredness when his home-and-away campaign came to a thudding halt with a broken foot and a punctured lung against North Melbourne.

Not helped by a match-day illness to McKay and injury to one of their best runners Blake Acres, they ran out of legs off a five-day break against Port Adelaide, blowing a 31-point lead just before half-time.

Cerra and Saad have become less resilient since moving to Carlton. Only Richmond have lost more games to injury for their best 23 this season. Since round 17, the Blues are equal third for most players used.

Carlton’s season is not over. Wins against the Eagles and St Kilda would likely book them a finals berth in the manner few could have imagined in June.

A lot of them were broke before we got them and arrived from their original clubs who couldnt fix them...

Exactly what I said on page 1 of this thread. If it ain't broke don't fix FFS