Carlton Supporters Club

I can't see us winning this one: not enough fit players and no confidence in those that remain. Losing five players from today's disaster won't help either. Martin, Curnow, Fogarty, Boyd, Saad, Williams - according Channel 7.
[1] Lord has to come in; he had 30 possessions in the 2's. He may not be ready, but he is fit. He can take Sam Walsh's spot: play Walsh on the wing, if we play him at all. He hasn't been fit for weeks.
[2] Wilson comes in on a HBF, to replace Saad.
[3] Binns probably comes in, even though his form hasn't been that great of late. He can replace Fog.
[4] I guess Lewis Young comes and McGovern goes forward to replace Curnow. A come down, but the only other choice is Lemmey, who isn't ready yet.
After that, I'm struggling.

Durdin couldn't handle a beach ball ATM.

Season ended today, put the cue in the rack and get ready for next year.

FB: Docherty - S. Durdin - Boyd
HB:   Saad   - Marchbank - McGovern
C:   Cottrell -    Cerra -   Cuningham
HF: Fogarty - Silvagni - Martin
FF: C. Durdin - Curnow - Williams
R: De Koning - Kennedy - Cincotta
Int: Fantasia - M. Carroll - O'Keefe - Acres

In orange are players i noticed with injuries today that are NOT listed as officially injured yet.
All other players are on the injury list, or were listed as injured at the end of the game today.

Thats a full team of 22.....and there may be more as i'm not up to date with our VFL team and potential injuries from that.

Still not convinced that the Terrier can be held responsible for all our injuries.

Of K's list above...

Bad luck, which can happen to any club: Docherty, Silvagni, small Durds, Fogarty, Curnow, TDK, Cottrell, M Carroll.
Glassmen: Marchbank, Cuningham, Williams, Martin, Fantasia.
Normal in-season injuries: The rest.

There wouldn't be a club at this stage of the season that wouldn't be 'nursing' injured players/blokes playing injured.

The game against the Weagles this Sunday, through necessity, will provide an opportunity to give a few lads from the Magoos a chance to experience senior footy... Binns, Billy Wilson and perhaps even Moir.

I'm getting the feeling we have been playing with more injuries that has been mentioned publicly IMO at least.

Still not convinced that the Terrier can be held responsible for all our injuries.

Durdin couldn't handle a beach ball ATM.

While he can't be bpamed for reco and collision injuries he can with the soft tissue ones. He can be blamed given thishas been a constant for 6 years. Leave that in no doubt. Derailed a flag shot. I'm getting the feeling we have been playing with more injuries that has been mentioned publicly IMO at least.

C. Durdin is part of the rat pack injury list group, a beach ball would probably injure him and put him out for 6 weeks...

Still don't know why he got a contract extension, couldn't be based on his form/body of work :o

For me... the expectation for a strength and conditioning person is to determine why these injuries are occurring and tailoring programs for the prevention of/ and recovery from them.
There's not a lot you can do about impact injuries.
Recurring soft tissue injuries and poor recovery leading to repeat injuries is another issue.

So it then goes to the specifics of his departure.

If he was pushed, the club was obvioulsy not happy with his work.
If he's walked away frustrated that his recommendations aren't being followed that's a different story...one we may never know.

Supporters who are calling for Vossy's head have got it all wrong, IMHO. We should be getting in behind him. Is he putting too much faith in some around him, including some players? My only hope is that behind closed doors Vossy is breathing fire at those letting him down. I know it's a balancing act... berate or coddle? Times have changed. But this is still a very physical, gladiatorial sport and there are times to breathe fire.

We'll have a depleted side this Sunday. Reality. Our forward line will very likely look very different (please, please no Young up forward. Down back to help Weiters? Yes. And give Weiters more license to roam and exert his authority and leadership down back. Give Kemp a gig up forward).

Still not convinced there isn't a problem in the S&C area

While finals are still mathematically possible, a team like the Hawks deserves that spot way more than we do...simple as that. With 6 players likely to be missing from last weekend, there's not much left to choose from so lets have a look at Moir, Lemmey, Binns, Wilson, Carroll.....even Mirkov. He couldn't be any worse than Pittonet's been in the last month.

Hawks play the bottom two teams. We're not catching them even if we do win our last 2 games which I doubt we will.

Injuries and poor player effort have let Voss down recently and while Id like to see him become a bit more daring with his moves its not his fault we have capitulated at seasons end again and the last thing we need is another sacked coach saga.
This is a list management issue along with some doubts over the S&C crew but Im more inclined to be pointing the finger at the former..

freo can still fall out.  They lose one game we win two and we are in.  They play gws away and Port at home.

Just doesn't make sense that a bloke heading high performance at 3 clubs, and does brilliantly, suddenly loses all his skills at club 4. It just aint logical. Is Cookie getting it wrong at PP after doing so well at other places? Nuh.

This also has a sniff of coaches about it. Seems that as soon as it comes to on-field stuff things just start going pear shaped. Time for a top-line Head of Football? Someone smarter, more disciplined with some fire in the guts?

6 years of massive injuries is enough to give us a fair idea.

If we could somehow get into the 8 it would be a nice experience for the kids to play a final, even if they get thumped. Can only help. A refresh of a side can do wonders for a couple of games, especially against sides with nothing to play for.

You never know.. Be a big step up for a few.

6 years of massive injuries is enough to give us a fair idea.

Maybe it has something to do with how we evaluate players before we recruit them? What criteria are used re player durability ? It’s very hard to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear so to speak.

The injury list over the years has been way too big for that. Even injury prone players mostly get back on the park long term if looked after well. Any injury prone player here had no hope.

How would you suggest we manage the injuries better? We gave Cerra and Saad 6 weeks to get over their hammy's. Do we give them 10 weeks? At some point they become a liability . They have to be able to play, we're not a rehab centre.

What are you talking about, Cerra came to us already with a history of soft tissue injury, and played 40 games in his first two seasons?

This is his first real injury interrupted season at Carlton, it can happen to anybody!

How would you suggest we manage the injuries better? We gave Cerra and Saad 6 weeks to get over their hammy's. Do we give them 10 weeks? At some point they become a liability . They have to be able to play, we're not a rehab centre.

was thinking about this scenario and have arrived at a horrific result thought process wise. 

Why wouldn't you play kids?

Draftee contracts usually have a match bonus payment condition attached. 

So why aren't we playing kids?  The cap is close to being overloaded.

We might be playing broken senior players because of out salary cap composition.

There goes the Forward line.

My side (not much choice) with all 6 of Curnow McKay Saad Boyd Fogarty Martin confirmed out

I keep thinking where do we have an excess of players - and that's the midfield.?

B: Newman  Weitering  Cowan
HB: Kemp  McGovern Cincotta
C: Hollands   Hewett  Acres
HF: Williams   Lemmey   Carroll
F: Owies    Kennedy   Motlop
R: Pittonet  Cripps  Walsh
I: Young Binns Wilson Lord

When you look at it it's actually not a bad side we can cobble together.
It's well off our best but...
There's plenty of senior experience there, and the young ones have a golden opportunity to show their wares.
Some players just need that opportunity.
The question will be are100% fit players going to match the impact of the 75% fit players who have been taking the field in recent games.

When you look at it it's actually not a bad side we can cobble together.
It's well off our best but...
There's plenty of senior experience there, and the young ones have a golden opportunity to show their wares.
Some players just need that opportunity.
The question will be are100% fit players going to match the impact of the 75% fit players who have been taking the field in recent games.

How about this side
FB Boyd Marchbank M Carroll
HB Saad S Durdin Docherty
C Martin Cerra ??
HF Cunningham McKay Fogarty
FF Fantasia Curnow Silvagni
R De Koning Cottrell ??
Int O'Keefe ?? ?? ??
Nearly a better side than we will put out this week vs WC.

My team, and it is Tuesday so we have plenty of time to lose a few more players, is:
Kemp Weitering Cowan
Newman Young Cincotta
O.Hollands E.Hollands Acres
Motlop McGovern Owies
Lemmey Cripps Durdin
Pittonett Kennedy Hewitt
Carroll Williams Binns Walsh
With Lord Wilson Moir Mirkov as emergencies
I am not sure Fantasia will be right which leaves Akuei and Monahan to fly the flag in the VFL.
I like the idea of Cripps playing permanently forward. I would like him to play like a midfielder and run his opponent into the ground.

Salary caps are not that tight and don't work that way.

Any club worth their salt will aim for match payments for 23 players over 24 rounds (or whatever we actually play) and put that aside for every season. Whats left is what you play players from as in their base and above base payments.

You go a step further and allocate a certain part to any of the following you implement as a club (each club does it differently)
- Top (3, 5 or) 10 B+F finishers bonus
- Matches played threshold bonuses (kids get 10 - 15 - 20 bonuses IIRC, same for others potentially if you wish)
- individual KPI targets (eg # goals or goal assists etc)
- AFL award bonuses (AA, brownlow, coleman, 22U22 teams etc)

You set aside whatever 'bonuses' you want to pay. You add that to what you set aside with your match payments.
Then you pay players from whats left.

If you make finals, the AFL allows gives you the extra $'s required to pay players for their time.
If you win the GF there is an extra million to allocate IIRC as well.

In short, there is no financial incentive to NOT play the kids.

You need to fact check.

I've read the eba.  Players on base contracts usually qualify for match payments.

This is included in the cap, and depending on factors can see match payments worth as much as 5000 a match which can vary based on where a player was taken in the draft.

Now we play Ollie hollands a first rounder and lachie cowan a second rounder.

Between them in 2024 they have played 34 matches.  Hypotheticals state if they are on base contracts we pay 5000 per match, we have blown out our payments by a conservative 150k.  Not much as you stated, but depending on whom else is on base contracts you might have jack Carroll, jaxon binns, and jesse motlop earning match payments over and above their base contract.  Jordan boyd might be another and this can escalate quickly and cost a total of over 200k over a season.  Not earth shattering in a 14 million dollar cap, but it could cause some headaches in a situation where you are paying above the cap after banking in previous years if you've cooked your salary structure and were banking on making finals to get your extra million.

I've read the CBAs.

You are not understanding what i wrote.

ASSUME you are paying match payments for all 23 players that are playing.
ASSUME you are paying match payments for all 23 players, for every round.
Call it 5k each.

5k x 23 (players) x 22 (matches) = 2.53mil.

Your TPP for 2024 is $15,788,222
So, deduct 1 from the other and you have 13.26mil remaining.

Use that 13.26mil as your starting point to make player payments.

Now, in case you missed this part earlier as well, use that 13.26mil as a starting point and deduct any expected bonuses to be made.
Lets say 1.26mil of bonuses. (excessive, but it doesn't matter for this example.

You are left with 12mil.

Use that to work out your base contracts for all players.
Works out to average of 273k per player (44 players)

Now for kids, they have an agreed base to start with, so use that.
They also get match payments as part of their contract....so thats where they will earn more (BUT we already factored that in before)
For seniors, obviously they want more. So give them more.

At the end of the day, everyones base payments are covered.
Everyones bonuses are covered.
All the kids on match payments are covered.
What you have 'left over' is the 'match payments' that were not divied out to the senior players as they don't receive them. So whatever is left over in this, you spread amongst the senior players.

So if you started with 2.53mil of match payments allowed and your 15 kids on match payments clocked up 1mil, the remaining 1.53 mil you give back to the senior players on a sliding scale. Cripps gets a higher % than Fantasia.
OR
If you are lucky enough, you keep that and bank it for next year and spend it on recruiting players or signing bonuses etc.
or
You use that money to front load players to bank money the following year. eg, pay cripps 100k of 2025 money, in 2024. etc.


What you are saying is you max out the cap and have no room for unexpected match payments to kids. Which is not the way you do things.
Work backwards from worst case so that can't happen.

I read what you wrote.

You're assuming what the club should be doing but it doesn't mean that's what's happening, particularly if we're trying to balance the books.

Not all players will be on bonuses so your example doesn't quite fit.

Meanwhile only one debutant....  would have thought we'd have news on lemmey at least.  Suggests that we are bringing in young and not much else.

Meanwhile only one debutant....  would have thought we'd have news on lemmey at least.  Suggests that we are bringing in young and not much else.

maybe with all these injuries we might find a gem ,this could be our ray of sunshine

Meanwhile only one debutant....  would have thought we'd have news on lemmey at least.  Suggests that we are bringing in young and not much else.

Meanwhile only one debutant....  would have thought we'd have news on lemmey at least.  Suggests that we are bringing in young and not much else.

Against the grain, but I wouldn't bring in Lemmey.   He really hasn't shown enough and first game against someone like J.McGovern he could just be a liability.

Go small with Mitch McGovern up forward and Young down back.   Young can play on a man and Kemp can play the McGovern role.    A combo of M.Kennedy and Cripps as a 2nd forward.

Boyd > Cincotta back.    C.Lord in.
Fogarty > Durdin.
Curnow > Young in.    McGovern forward
Saad > Binns in.  
McKay > Carroll
Martin > Fantasia

Forward line of
E.Holland, McGovern, Z.Williams
Motlop, Kennedy/Cripps, Owies

Z.Williams can go back, but I doubt he has the fitness to play half back.   Durdin or Fantasia forward.
If we go small it might make life difficult for McGovern and co

Yep.

Hewett and Lord rotating?
Toss up for moi between Kemp and McGovern going forward. Agree Young must go back.
Cincotta has the speed to keep with their quickest smaller forward.

Maybe I'm an incurable romantic, stubborn optimist or just plain nuts, but I find myself quietly confident we can win the next two games, and make finals. There was just something in the endeavour and effort of our boys that just didn't lie down over the past couple of depressing months. I wonder if my locked room at the psych ward will have a window with a scenic view?

Scribes have us getting in on the ladder predictor apps and Freo dropping out, however they have us playing GWS at home first up and I dont see that going well...and would we be better off outside the eight draw and draft pick wise?

Scribes have us getting in on the ladder predictor apps and Freo dropping out, however they have us playing GWS at home first up and I dont see that going well...and would we be better off outside the eight draw and draft pick wise?

Maybe I'm an incurable romantic, stubborn optimist or just plain nuts, but I find myself quietly confident we can win the next two games, and make finals. There was just something in the endeavour and effort of our boys that just didn't lie down over the past couple of depressing months. I wonder if my locked room at the psych ward will have a window with a scenic view?

Depends on the list.    We have a lot of 1-2 week listed injuries.

If* you could get Cerra, Curnow, McKay and Saad back then I reckon you have a crack.   Pushing the preverbal up hill, but why not?    They will have the pre-season to recover and it's only a pick one up in a deep draft.

Reckon the Ross and the Saints will stich us up in our current form however.

Not me. If it is a chance for a bunch of kids to experience a final, thumping or not, I am all for it.

Those 1-2 weeks are minor hamstrings. No matter what they say those things are always 3 at the low end.

Those 1-2 weeks are minor hamstrings. No matter what they say those things are always 3 at the low end.

I have Lemmey in. While not fully ready his last 6 weeks have been pretty good. He is hitting the scoreboard.

What I would do is have both Gov and Kemp in the key forward roles and let Lemmey 2nd ruck so he gets a run around the paddock rather than stay home all the time.

Depends.

A hamstring can be 1 to 2 weeks on a player that hasn't done one before and it's a low grade one.

Haven't seen one yet. Unless it's referred never see then under 3. Those that have tried 2 weeks have invariably dine them again.

Against the grain, but I wouldn't bring in Lemmey.   He really hasn't shown enough and first game against someone like J.McGovern he could just be a liability.

Go small with Mitch McGovern up forward and Young down back.   Young can play on a man and Kemp can play the McGovern role.    A combo of M.Kennedy and Cripps as a 2nd forward.

Boyd > Cincotta back.    C.Lord in.
Fogarty > Durdin.
Curnow > Young in.    McGovern forward
Saad > Binns in.  
McKay > Carroll
Martin > Fantasia

Forward line of
E.Holland, McGovern, Z.Williams
Motlop, Kennedy/Cripps, Owies

Z.Williams can go back, but I doubt he has the fitness to play half back.   Durdin or Fantasia forward.
If we go small it might make life difficult for McGovern and co

While finals are still mathematically possible, a team like the Hawks deserves that spot way more than we do...simple as that. With 6 players likely to be missing from last weekend, there's not much left to choose from so lets have a look at Moir, Lemmey, Binns, Wilson, Carroll.....even Mirkov. He couldn't be any worse than Pittonet's been in the last month.

Personally i'd put Weitering forward, at least for part of the game. Nobody will be able to push him off the ball and he'll read the ball better than anyone else.

We have Gov (hopefully he's fit) and Kemp to do their usual role and we can have Young to play Weitering role, which he seems to be able to do better than any other defenders role.

We need to be able to score and we are just about missing our complete first choice forwardline, so why not add a joker into the mix with Weitering?

If we lose, it doesn't matter if its 1 point or 100.

Without kicking a score though, we have no hope.

I’ve noticed that Weiters has become quite tetchy with some teammates at times during the past few matches. This shows that probably some in the defence have been making bad mistakes, although this has been pretty obvious anyway. Moving him away from defence could make us even more vulnerable. We need to focus more on how to move the ball effectively into our F50 and keeping it there, without exposing our defence imo.

Allen, Waterman and Darling are no mugs and without Weitering we would have our hands full down back especially with Allen imho. I'd play Lemmey and Kennedy in the key forward spots and rotate Cripps with Kennedy at FF and  wouldn't be shy to give Cripps extended time there.

The communication in the backline hasn't really been all 'Beer and Skittles" in recent times.
Dirty looks and sprays have been evident.
McGovern wasn't happy with Kemp the other day.

It seems they're not on the same page and that many of the mistakes are probably things that have gone against game strategy.

I also wouldn't discount the fact that all those corkies have left Weitering a little below his best, and struggling a bit with holding it all together.
He may be a little frustrated with his own body and that's reflecting on to team-mates.

Now you would think the worst thing we could do would be to move him. But with him not there it's quite possible the others might feel a little less pressure from his scrutiny and in fact rise to the challenge.

All speculation...I'm happy to let the coaches with a closer understanding of the dynamics to sort it out

Imho we need weiters doing more traffic directing and less doing.

On the weekend he was trying to be everywhere man rather than holding it all together.  Less act, more lead..........................................

Its all relative though.

Yes, they have some good forwards, and we have some decent backs.

They have some decent backs and we have no forwards.

Even if we 'break even' in our defence. We will lose the forward battle.
Relying on a guy who hasn't played a game, and a guy who is a midfielder first and foremost (i am a fan of him playing forward BTW).....and is carrying an ankle injury......is NOT a winning strategy.

Not sure our backs are that decent, its a mess back there and not so much due to injuries.
I agree relying on newbies and players playing out of position isnt much of a strategy but we dont have a lot to work with and a few innovative moves is about all we have to surprise WC with.
Im also relying on WC not being great themselves, if we were playing a decent team we would be hammered this week.
It appears Don Pyke will be the new WC coach or maybe Hinkley in a surprise so Im hoping Schofield has checked out and isnt too bothered about strategies or over thinking how to stretch us..

In : Binns, Young, Lord, J Carroll, C Durdin, Lemmey, WIlson, Moir, Akuei

Phewy.

Out : Saad, McKay, Curnow, Martin,, Fogarty, Boyd

Thats everyone available bar Mirkov and Monahan

Interchange???

Wilson, Lord, , Lemmey, Carroll   Sub  Cincotta    

The need for speed!!

I cannot believe we are in the position that I dont think we can beat West Coast. You just cant make this crap up.

Selected back 6 too top heavy

Kemp   Weitering  Newman
Cowan  McGovern   Young

Expect a Kemp or Young (I hope not!) move up forward.

Yep. If only Voss, Hansen, Hamill and Luke Power could strap on the boots.

It's a real possibility. We are fielding a VFL side, and our VFL team is 3rd last on the ladder. We may sneak a win, but there's not much in the lead up to give much hope.

Thats everyone available bar Mirkov and Monahan

I reckon the 5 will be Lord, Binns, Cincotta, Lemmey and Carroll. Lemmey as 2nd ruck. Decent form recently.

Who's the 6th?

Good experienced heads on every line - Go Blues.

I am expecting we will lose - but never know whether youth can give the older heads something to think about as they need to go the extra yard to set an example and cover for their young mates.

Of we can somehow make finals we will get a few back week 1 given the bye. Those hammys will need 3 weeks, not the 1-2 the club is telling us.

Anyone that says the F word in the next 2 days should get a ban.

I want to see Billy, he will really light us up I reckon. First time he breaks away just watch morale lift.

I reckon more are going to pull out...not convinced about Walsh or Williams for starters, maybe MaG

Anyone that says the F word in the next 2 days should get a ban.

Be adventurous...haha.

Cincotta was injured as well. Looked like Pittonet stepped on his ankle while he was on the ground.

Geelong beat us with their entire starting midfield missing first week of ? 94?

No Couch, no Bairstow, no Hocking !!! We've won!!

Quite sure this line up is younger that Wet Toast.

Some of his in close work in the u18s was very slick, he's a little different to the rest of our midfield crew.  Personally I'd play him as a small defender because we're still very light on in that area.

Lord in this week, I guess they have to justify the mid season selection. McMahon would have been handier this week.
In any case, go well son.

Pleased to be making my debut this weekend.

If they are taking Lemmey all the way over to the other side of the country then they just have to play him. At 201cm, the Eagles have no-one of that height to manage him.

Lemmey regularly rucks in the VFL and I dare say that he would more effective at giving Pitto a chop out than Young, Cripps and Kennedy.  He can clunk a mark and his kicking for goal is good.  If nothing else, Lemmey would demand a competent key defender and he could bring the ball to ground more often than not.

That's a very glowing reference for a bloke I've only seen lowlights from.

Maybe the snippets ive tuned in to see have been anomalies, but I've seen nothing to excite me about him thus far.

I think we can win, WC are not that good and Im hoping we show some fight and pride as GTC suggested and Im sure Cripps, Walsh, Weitering and other senior players can lead the kids to a win and redeem some respect after last weeks debacle.
The players owe Voss after last weeks feeble display and another loss wont be tolerated by long suffering fans Im sure.

They are taking the p!55 with the line up as named all be it a squad. Kennedy at FF, Elijah at CHF! If its anything like that at the first bounce we have put the cue in the rack and are positioning ourselves for draft picks.

Good luck if your'e a West Coast strategist trying to work out who will line up where. ;)
Keep them guessing. :D

Can't find a genuine key forward to keep the taller defenders honest?
Don't play one!

I know we have young and potentially lemmey who will fill that role but it always bothers me that teams always try to stick to the traditional setup.

100 years ago it seemed like a good idea so let's just copy that. Big chf. Big ff.

Why not run with 6 smalls? What have we got to lose?

Revolutionise the game. Just don't bomb it long

Can't find a genuine key forward to keep the taller defenders honest?
Don't play one!

I know we have young and potentially lemmey who will fill that role but it always bothers me that teams always try to stick to the traditional setup.

100 years ago it seemed like a good idea so let's just copy that. Big chf. Big ff.

Why not run with 6 smalls? What have we got to lose?

Revolutionise the game. Just don't bomb it long

Weather forecast is for very wet, could aid us (hopefully)

I'd agree but lowering our eyes isn't really a strength of our team.

Nor is our forward pressure.

May as well play a glacial full forward than try use run.  It's not a strength of ours

"lowered their eyes" ........... I freakin' hate that phrase.

"lowered their eyes" ........... I freakin' hate that phrase.

No 43 to make his debut. Good luck kid....

Dont know about everyone else but Im wrapped to see as couple of shoots playing  O0  O0

"lowered their eyes" ........... I freakin' hate that phrase.

"lowered their eyes" ........... I freakin' hate that phrase.

I hate "he marked the ball at its highest point".

Lemmey shadows Harry at training and he works against Weiters et al at training.  His running patterns are good and he is a good mark.  His kicking for goal is generally very good. 

He can play in defence and he’s a competent ruckman.

I’d say that he’s still a work in progress, but he’s a much better chance of having an impact as a key forward than Hollands, E, Kennedy, McGovern, Kemp or Young.

It the highest point of his jump, not the highest point of the ball trajectory.

And I will add that way too many Mark Of The Year contenders have gone to someone who took a chest mark speccy that could have been marked without the big leap and just by putting the arms up (easier said than done of course). I would like an analysis/estimation done of the highest marks taken - that is the ball caught at the highest point. Think Jezza on a ruckman's shoulders with his arms up.

My phone as already started smoking with abusive texts.

The vultures are circling.

L I F T  B A B Y  B A G G E R S ! ! ! !

I think we can win, WC are not that good and Im hoping we show some fight and pride as GTC suggested and Im sure Cripps, Walsh, Weitering and other senior players can lead the kids to a win and redeem some respect after last weeks debacle.
The players owe Voss after last weeks feeble display and another loss wont be tolerated by long suffering fans Im sure.

It the highest point of his jump, not the highest point of the ball trajectory.

What does it actually mean?

I would have thought that every players' eyes are on roughly the same plane  ::)

If it means looking for a passing opportunity, then why not say that?  It's just another meaningless phrase that has crept into the commentators' repertoire.

So they should say "he marked the ball at his highest point".

Its take the shorter, smarter option when its available and not just bomb long and hope.

I've always known it since i was a kid as my dad used to say it, but never known its origin.

I just assumed it had as much to do with looking at the old magnetic whiteboard. Instead of kicking it over the HF line deep into the goals, lower your eyes and see whats in front of you.

In reality, i think its more simple than that. When a player is looking to kick deep, they seem to tilt their head back so their eyes are higher and it gives them more of an ability to see longer.
Lowering them looks at whats in front of you more, rather than over them.

You'd only need to tilt your head back if you were intending to pass to someone in the upper levels.

There might be the odd occasion when a player "doesn't see" a teammate in a good position to mark a pass or receive a a handpass but in 99.9% of cases, the bloke with the ball will have seen every teammate and opponent in at least a 180 degree arc in front of him.  The critical factor is whether the player's brain can evaluate the options and choose the most appropriate in the context of the player's ability to execute the kick, the target's ability to get to the ball's path, the location and ability of defenders, and the chances of a shot at goal or a long bomb succeeding.

Rather the "lower the eyes", it's "choose the right option".

What does it actually mean?

I would have thought that every players' eyes are on roughly the same plane  ::)

If it means looking for a passing opportunity, then why not say that?  It's just another meaningless phrase that has crept into the commentators' repertoire.

What does it actually mean?

I would have thought that every players' eyes are on roughly the same plane  ::)

If it means looking for a passing opportunity, then why not say that?  It's just another meaningless phrase that has crept into the commentators' repertoire.

I like your optimism and logic EB. 

A win over the Eagles with our injury-depleted team would be a pretty good indicator of development.

Call me crazy but I’m tipping us this week. 🤪

Emergencies: Lemmey, Akuei, Wilson.

Everyone else is in.

Thats gotta be a slap in the face for Lemmey.

Rather go with no key forwards than him.

I dont get it leaving Lemmey out, this was a chance to see where he is at and his form hasnt been terrible.

I don't get the fuss. It's just another footy cliche. It's often used in response to a side that when moving into the forward line and doing the usual thing of kicking long to a tall to no or little avail, rather 'lower your eyes' to assess better/other/shorter options. Don't waste the kick.

I dont get it leaving Lemmey out, this was a chance to see where he is at and his form hasnt been terrible.

We would also be playing a similar gamestyle with Lemmey in the CHF/second ruck role that his mentor plays.

I can't see us going with a small forward line so it could be Young in the CHF/second ruck role or one of McGovern or Kemp as a marking target with Young playing in defence and taking a turn in the ruck.

I think it's a missed opportunity, both in getting a game into Lemmey and in giving us a fighting chance. 

Their Gov will be licking his lips at the prospect of playing on Kennedy and/or E Hollands.  He could set a new record for intercept marks.

Was thinking same, senior Gov will have a picnic with us bombing the ball to our smalls. Lemmey just needed to make a contest with his 200cm frame and give other players around him some opportunities in a Mason Cox type of way.
He provides a ruck alternative and I thought he did well at CHB in the VFL, baffling to me how Moir got a game ahead of him.

Forecast may have a bit to do with his non selection, they’ll have a look at the state of ground after the rugby match and rain on Saturday and decide on whether his a late chance. Not ideal to debut at 200cm if the the conditions are dead against you.

Lemmey is a bit glacial but he would make sense particularly if pittonet is iffy.

Probably akuei has the more diverse skillset more suited to giving a go.  Given he is almost gone you'd think playing him would make sense. He can play forward back or ruck but has no idea.

Not quite a glowing endorsement Thry 😁

I know but he's the sort of awkward athletic type that can do anything but from what I've seen of him you can't give him a role, he's the most certain delisting I've seen in years.

What he does bring is athleticism though and maybe he might be more useful if we need to swing the magnets around.

Small Durdin is a long, long way off it based on VFL form, staggered how he got a gig over Cinch and others.

I'd rather we actually played a tall forward. Durdin's regular 5 touches will do nothing
 
Once you had picked Moir there was no need for Durdin. I'm sure our MC has no idea. Couldn't pick a side if their life depended on it. Surprised the idiots didn't  pick someome who was injured. Why not play Lemmey, who has decent form in the VFL. He might just get the 5 or 6 touches too but he'll get a goal or two for his trouble as least, and relief ruck.

We are scraping the bottom.  Durdin might just have the most afl goals out of our forwards bar owies this week.

He's actually capable.  The problem is he has had stuff all continuity.  At least he's quick.

Need to cover Allen, Darling and Waterman as their 3 talls...... they can all play a bit!!

I'd add Liam Ryan to that list too not a tall, but a goalkicking threat, if we cant win the stoppages/Clearances and they get decent supply then its going to be a long trip home.

I'd add Liam Ryan to that list too not a tall,

Durdin was drafted as a mid/forward and it's a position we have really struggled with.     I thought he showed signs in 2023 and 2024 was his year to play that half forward role and pitch hit in the middle.   Go from that 9-10 disposal player to 14-16.   He has had a few CBA's but his year has really been a bust.

Durdin has been injured.

Still been involved in 11 games (albeit some as the sub or subbed off), but look at Motlop, 4 goals in 4 games.......and they are games we've been terrible in, not the dominant side that Durdin played in.

Zero goals in 2 weeks if that's your measure.

Still been involved in 11 games (albeit some as the sub or subbed off), but look at Motlop, 4 goals in 4 games.......and they are games we've been terrible in, not the dominant side that Durdin played in.

He has been the sub 4 times.

Issue with our small forwards is they just don't get enough of it.   Motlop 8-10 times a game.  Owies 8-9.   Durdin 5-7.   Fantasia 7-8.

Either by design or by ability they all have no impact offensively.    Owies to his credit is an accurate shot at goal and makes the most of his opportunities.    Unlike the rest of our forward line. 

Pick a category and compare the 2.
The end.

Both have had disappointing years.

At the start of this round, we were first in points for. If we apply the logic of "if it ain't broke.....", then our forward structure and personnel appear to be working well.

Both have had disappointing years.

One because hes been injured.
One because hes been crap

One because hes been injured.
One because hes been crap

Anyone else quietly a little terrified about what might happen today 😣