Carlton Supporters Club

Princes Park => Robert Heatley Stand => Topic started by: crashlander on August 16, 2024, 08:53:10 pm

Title: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: crashlander on August 16, 2024, 08:53:10 pm
Ready. Hopefully, ... No, I'm not going there. Our season could be over tonight.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: cookie2 on August 18, 2024, 07:24:35 pm
A gutsy, business like win. A very undermanned team doing what had to be done. Liked the look of the new guys with Binns putting in a solid performance and Moir an exciting cameo. Well done Blues 👍
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: madbluboy on August 18, 2024, 07:26:40 pm
Best win of the year.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: crashlander on August 18, 2024, 07:28:29 pm
I didn't see this one coming.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: Professer E on August 18, 2024, 07:31:21 pm
Gees Kemp was outstanding today, played like an old fashioned CHF.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: cookie2 on August 18, 2024, 07:33:05 pm
I at least tipped us 😁
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: rocky on August 18, 2024, 07:47:10 pm
Unbelievable backs to the wall type victory. Never thought we had it in us. Momentum is a wonderful thing. Let's hope we've got enough of it to continue on into September.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: madbluboy on August 18, 2024, 07:53:54 pm
Imagine we backed our depth 5 or 6 weeks ago. Even if we lost (we did anyway) you get your guns back fully fit.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: kruddler on August 18, 2024, 07:58:24 pm
Imagine we backed our depth 5 or 6 weeks ago. Even if we lost (we did anyway) you get your guns back fully fit.

Yep.
Hopefully it's a mistake we only need to make once.
Could've cost us a GF birth.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: Baggers on August 18, 2024, 08:10:50 pm
Oh ye of little faith! With stubborn optimism I pinned my hopes on the spirit of the boys.

However... it was the Weagles, so tempered joy but joy nonetheless. We would have been happy with a 65 pt win being closer to full strength. The defensive pressure was outstanding... never let them get a sniff apart from their first two goals. Put speed on the aggott and hunted in packs. Ripper stuff.

Starting with Pitto, what a great effort from the mids. Crippa, Hewey, Chugga, Walshy. Well supported by the Hollands bros and Blacres (as usual). Weiters led the backline really well, Young did his bit. Gotta love Cowan.

Although he faded (obviously knackered not having had a senior footy pre season) well done Cooper Lord - quick hands and a footy brain.

Slow to get going but Binns eventually got into the game and was good.

Loved Moir's cameo.

Just as small Durds was showing something - shoulder.

And Kemp... ripper stuff, looked every bit a tall forward.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: northernblue on August 18, 2024, 08:14:35 pm
But have the coaches learnt anything…?
Honour the lead, Harry, Charlie or Mr Magoo ! Just homour the forkin lead !!
Kudos to Moo today, played with a licence to attack, and he did !
Small Durds before getting injured too… incredible what can happen when you’re not just a space filler.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: Micky0 on August 18, 2024, 08:26:35 pm
Gees Kemp was outstanding today, played like an old fashioned CHF.

I missed most of the game but so pleased with a good win!

I have always liked Kemp and really glad to see him play well today.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: Professer E on August 18, 2024, 08:39:56 pm
Kicked four on a real CHB, but his work on the ground, putting blocks in, knocking the ball on, general positioning was outstanding.  Created a number of goals as well for the seagulls feeding at the fall of the ball.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: crashlander on August 18, 2024, 08:44:19 pm
In other games this year we couldn't buy a goal, but today. Some lovely snaps, but Moir's! What can you say?
We may well have ended Collingwood's season today. I didn't expect that either.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: Gointocarlton on August 18, 2024, 09:09:31 pm
I was negative Nelly and didn't think we could win with all the changes. Obviously please with the result, Ol' Mate 3 Votes carried his team on his back yet again, he was Mighty today along with George, Weiters and Pitto.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: Gointocarlton on August 18, 2024, 09:12:58 pm
In other games this year we couldn't buy a goal, but today. Some lovely snaps, but Moir's! What can you say?
We may well have ended Collingwood's season today. I didn't expect that either.
Could Moir be one of those players who plays better in the 1s than in the 2s?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: laj on August 18, 2024, 09:26:57 pm
I was negative Nelly and didn't think we could win with all the changes. Obviously please with the result, Ol' Mate 3 Votes carried his team on back yet again, he was Mighty today along with George, Weiters and Pitto.
Nothing like a bit of fit fresh youth rather than half fit, cooked stars. If it have been done earlier then you never know as that was brilliant today.

Between a fitness bloke and a MC they could have cost us big time this year.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: laj on August 18, 2024, 09:27:27 pm
Could Moir be one of those players who plays better in the 1s than in the 2s?
Started that way.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: laj on August 18, 2024, 09:28:54 pm
In other games this year we couldn't buy a goal, but today. Some lovely snaps, but Moir's! What can you say?
We may well have ended Collingwood's season today. I didn't expect that either.
We have unless the Pies beat the Dee's by around triple figures or more.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: laj on August 18, 2024, 09:30:06 pm
We can still finish top 4 with a couple on minor miracle but best to focus on the 8 first.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: LordLucifer on August 18, 2024, 09:38:19 pm
Cowan & Cincotta ...... take a bow, they set the tone for the others to follow, if you want desperation & a fighting spirit, just look in their direction.

Binns was not great early but after half-time seemed to adjust to the tempo, he'll be good in the future, just needs a little bit more meat on his small frame.

Lord looked like he is ready now and has a little bit of mongrel in him and I like that quality.

Moir looked like he was pumped to be getting on the ground, clearly he has some serious talent and given Durdin's sholder injury should be in the run on team next week, freakish debut goal too.

I liked the fact that Lemmey was sitting in with the forwards at half-time being a part of the forwards coach's discussion.

Best game I've seen from Pittonet, I still don't want him at the club but I have to acknowledge when a player excels.

Even though Kemp had a ripper game up forward, he needs to say in defence. How was that mark in front he shared with McGovern yet the umpire called for a ball-up ........... appalling umpiring on so many levels.

That was the best game I've seen from Durdin too, still shouldn't save him from trade speculation though.

Cripps had the ball on a string and was sensational whilst Walsh kept trying to do too much and got caught.

Owies had another good game and drove his trade price up but Motlop annoyed me immensely by getting caught so often, he has the talent but lacks the grey matter (something I have already said once before).

I was not impressed with Acres, he made some utterly stupid decisions which cost us each time, the worst being to hold up play and wave his hands around and then when he did kick it the ball landed on an Eagles player's chest with no-one within 10-metres of him. For a player of his experience, these blunders were unacceptable, especially when he juggled the ball around the goalpost only to kick it down Ryan's throat which ended up in an opposition goal.

Newman & Young were strong in defence whilst Weitering was impassable, played a blinder.

Ollie Hollands ran all day and tackled like his life depended on it.

Seeing three Blues players tackle Waterman nearly brought a tear to my eyes.

Jack Carroll showed why I strongly believe he must be retained, he is a terrific little player and will only get better.  

Elijah Hollands did some great stuff but let a lot of it down with some sloppy disposal on his left foot, he's been a terrific pick-up but must learn to play the percentages more.

There was plenty to like tonight but the job is not done yet, next week's game against the Saints will be a much harder affair than what the somewhat featherweight Eagles offered up.

Tonight's win does not erase the woeful efforts we have put out over the past 6-weeks but it does give us a glimmer of hope for a finals berth which looked like it was about to be completely extinguished.

Our players must take that same attack on the contest on to the field with them every week forever, even if they lose at least us as supporters know they gave everything they had and were just beaten by a better team on the day.    
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: Professer E on August 18, 2024, 09:50:45 pm
I think Motlop's issue is a lack of pace.  Durdin ain't fast either but he busted a nut running, played that forward 50 distributor role well today.

Just a cameo from Moir but yep, pack up ya locker Jack.  Going to be a decent size when he fills out.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: Thryleon on August 18, 2024, 10:00:59 pm
@prof, durdin is actually very fast.

Motlop is a good goal sneak, but he has no weapons and is very inconsistent.

Really happy to get the win today, but I reckon the Eagles would be happy we won to prevent freo making finals if possible.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: tonyo on August 18, 2024, 10:11:50 pm
Could Moir be one of those players who plays better in the 1s than in the 2s?
Has a lot of Izak Rankine about him.  We can only hope.....

Apart from the brilliant snap goal, the strength of hands on the lead was superb.  Give him another pre-season, and watch out.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: 31Tommys_barber on August 18, 2024, 10:24:56 pm
I enjoyed being at the game as you see who is running at half pace who is not making position etc things the TV doesn’t show. Was impressed by the over all effort put in today every player kept running chasing and competing for every contest. Thought that Binns was very good in that he did not stop running to help spoil or fill a hole or make a position to kick to. Carroll was the same also thought Lord showed something. I was impressed by Moir when he came on he lead at the right time dropped back at the right time and had nice hands to mark under pressure on the lead.
Caught the train back from the game with Eagle supporters they didn’t seemed surprised by the result just resigned to where their team is at. It’s a feeling I remember well for a lot of the last 20 years. Having Flagmantle as the paper over here was calling them at one stage miss out was a bit of a laugh for them.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: Lods on August 19, 2024, 06:46:27 am
The only thing wrong with the move of Kemp to the forward line was that it took so long to try it.

The surprising thing was that some folks found it 'surprising'.

Everything about his draft profile suggested that he was a player who could play forward or back...maybe even some time as a midfielder.
His versatility was a strength.

He kicked 4, probably should have kicked 5.

Yes, it was only an abysmal, dreadful West Coast side, but he was our key target.
How would he go as our third medium, tall player with the ability to move into defence if needed.
He's a strong mark and he's durable.
Hopefully he showed enough to not be pigeon-holed in future.

Luckiest player on the field yesterday was Harley Reid.
He had some cameos, but more importantly for his development.... he got to see what an elite midfielder, the best of the best, plays like. :D
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: Baggers on August 19, 2024, 08:12:11 am
The only thing wrong with the move of Kemp to the forward line was that it took so long to try it.

The surprising thing was that some folks found it 'surprising'.

Everything about his draft profile suggested that he was a player who could play forward or back...maybe even some time as a midfielder.
His versatility was a strength.

He kicked 4, probably should have kicked 5.

Yes, it was only an abysmal, dreadful West Coast side, but he was our key target.
How would he go as our third medium, tall player with the ability to move into defence if needed.
He's a strong mark and he's durable.
Hopefully he showed enough to not be pigeon-holed in future.

Luckiest player on the field yesterday was Harley Reid.
He had some cameos, but more importantly for his development.... he got to see what an elite midfielder, the best of the best, plays like. :D


Nice, Principal LODS.

Likewise, I've always thought Kempy was a forward who can play back, not the other way 'round. As a third tall, he's perfect... and what a headache for opposition defenses (when H & Charles are there as well). Plus, his defensive game up forward is a real bonus.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: Baggers on August 19, 2024, 08:15:53 am
Could Moir be one of those players who plays better in the 1s than in the 2s?

Absolutely. He is your genuine X factor type. What I really loved about his goal was his presence of mind to do what he did. Didn't try to grab it, knew his environment was too tight for that. That's a footy brain.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: LP on August 19, 2024, 08:19:17 am
Some bagging Binns, but watching the replay he worked as hard as any out there, and it's a bit silly saying he's not getting enough footy when you see him time after time follow up a disposal with hard running off his opponent but we don't give him the footy. He's a reasonable kick, ran as hard as Walsh, but we largely ignored him.

Maybe they have had him playing a "Billy Brownless Decoy" role, because the burn from his team-mates is otherwise unexplained.

Great game from Ollie, possibly his best, ............... the new "occasional" Simmo?

Some bagging EH and OH for waxing, but they showed the advantage of knowing each others game is invaluable, they looked like they had been side by side in D50 for 100 games. EH kicking out from behinds is a great additional option for McGovern or Weiters, let's them get up the ground easier.

Some might be rightly prompted to ask, where have some of these tactics been all season, why did it take the crisis for them to emerge?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: Baggers on August 19, 2024, 08:21:47 am
We can still finish top 4 with a couple on minor miracle but best to focus on the 8 first.

And I thought I was the stubborn optimist!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: Baggers on August 19, 2024, 08:27:40 am
Some bagging Binns, but watching the replay he worked as hard as any out there, and it's a bit silly saying he's not getting enough footy when you see him time after time follow up a disposal with hard running off his opponent but we don't give him the footy. He's a reasonable kick, ran as hard as Walsh, but we largely ignored him.

Maybe they have had him playing a "Billy Brownless Decoy" role, because the burn from his team-mates is otherwise unexplained.

Great game from Ollie, possibly his best, ............... the new Simmo?

I understand some of the criticism of Binnsy early... but as the game wore on and he picked up the pace, he became valuable and looked every bit a natural winger. And he loves a goal. Earned his stripes and we can look forward to the future with this lad.

Like your comparison of Ollie with Simmo. He looks so much better as a defensive (back half) player with license to move around... reads the game well and gets to so many contests.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: dodge on August 19, 2024, 10:16:04 am
"Not terrified, resigned to what's about happen. WC comfortably."

I think I made a typo in the pre-game thread...

They were relentless yesterday, which was great to see and one of the missing ingredients lately.

It will certainly give Lord, Binns and Moir confidence that they belong.

While St Kilda will be a bit tougher, I hope all the players that are 1-2 weeks on the injury list are given proper time to recover.



Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: ratlice on August 19, 2024, 10:33:10 am
I wouldn't like to see too many changes next week, regardless of who is supposedly "available". It looks like the younger players are playing to the plan, unlike some of our "stars".
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: DJC on August 19, 2024, 11:48:47 am
That was a much better result than I was anticipating - particularly with West Coast on a winning streak.

I think that it took us a while to put the tactics for our smaller forward line into practice, but they worked exceptionally well.  The boggy patch on the half forward flank did upset a couple of very promising inside 50s in the first quarter.  We had 15 marks inside 50, we've matched that three times this season and bettered it twice, but with Tom, Harry and Charlie providing the marking power.

Georgie Hewett was huge but Crippa was huger - 3 votes - P Cripps.  Pitto played the best game I've seen from him and really imposed himself on the game.

I have advocated allowing Kemp to focus on his role in defence but the absence of Charlie and Harry gave him an opportunity to play forward and didn't he grab it with both hands!  Apart from what Kemp showed as a tall forward, the move enabled Young to take his place in defence and his solid work freed up Weitering to do what he does best.  And, while I'm on the defence, Ollie Holland's move to defence paid off and gave Binns an opportunity on the wing.  Both did very well.

Corey Durdin was back to his best form with his defensive pressure and ever-present threat in the forward line.  Sadly, his weakened shoulder wasn't up to a chicken wing.  I think we have try to patch him up and wait until after the season for more permanent repairs.

Cooper Lord looked like he belonged out there and Ashton Moir showed in his cameo that he can play.  He should have nailed his first shot at goal but made up for it with his second.

Motlop didn't get much of the ball but I thought he was still a good contributor with his presence and pressure around contests. 

Everyone else deserves a mention for what was gutsy team performance.

I should mention that Kemp's mindset after playing almost exclusively in defence was an important factor with his work when West Coast had the footy.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: Professer E on August 19, 2024, 11:52:24 am
George has been a very important and unheralded piece of this side for a while, why he was dropped this year...
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: LP on August 19, 2024, 11:54:01 am
Motlop didn't get much of the ball but I thought he was still a good contributor with his presence and pressure around contests. 
He'll never be quick, but he had a real crack at the footy which he must do, the pressure of his attack brings others around him into the game, it shares the load.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: Shakin77 on August 19, 2024, 12:00:02 pm
I understand some of the criticism of Binnsy early... but as the game wore on and he picked up the pace, he became valuable and looked every bit a natural winger. And he loves a goal. Earned his stripes and we can look forward to the future with this lad.


I thought he looked like a Scottish Terrier chasing a tennis ball at the beach early.   Just running everywhere without getting to the right spots.   To his credit he seemed to pick up the pace of the game in the 2nd half and did some nice things which was great to see.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: Gointocarlton on August 19, 2024, 12:07:47 pm
He'll never be quick, but he had a real crack at the footy which he must do, the pressure of his attack brings others around him into the game, it shares the load.
We need a hell of a lot more from Jesse than what he brought to the table on the weekend.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: LP on August 19, 2024, 12:30:32 pm
We need a hell of a lot more from Jesse than what he brought to the table on the weekend.
I thought the same watching live, he needs more of the footy.

But watching the replay you could see him doing a lot of unrewarded physical stuff which made time and space for his team-mates, so I have to give him some credit.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: DJC on August 19, 2024, 01:00:28 pm
I thought the same watching live, he needs more of the footy.

But watching the replay you could see him doing a lot of unrewarded physical stuff which made time and space for his team-mates, so I have to give him some credit.

Yes, even though he may not be winning the footy, Jesse is never a passenger and his work often sets up teammates.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: WASurfer on August 19, 2024, 01:09:28 pm
Magnificent team win with some individual highlights too. Pittonet was huge. I genuinely thought both Williams' would work him over around the big ground but he stuck to his guns, broke even in the hitouts but was huge around the ground as well.

Weitering's effort on completely shutting Oscar Allen out of the game was big too. Allen was coming off 5 match winning goals last week against North and was hardly sighted.

Hewett's non-selection for a few weeks was hard to fathom and he showed why he's such an important player. He looks to have a low centre of gravity and hardly ever goes to ground and breaks tackles or gets his arms up and gets rid of the ball when he is tackled.

And Cripps....might be the 3 votes that clinches him another Brownlow. He is a beast and any thoughts that some had about trading him out should be put to bed now. He is Carlton through and through and is there to lead the club to a flag.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: LP on August 19, 2024, 01:17:14 pm
Hewett's non-selection for a few weeks was hard to fathom and he showed why he's such an important player. He looks to have a low centre of gravity and hardly ever goes to ground and breaks tackles or gets his arms up and gets rid of the ball when he is tackled.
We are never going to know for certain, but when you see Hewett and Kennedy go at it the last couple of weeks you have to ask the question.

Is that freshen up working?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: sleeper on August 19, 2024, 01:39:40 pm
Yes, even though he may not be winning the footy, Jesse is never a passenger and his work often sets up teammates.

Not sure about that....I was at the game and he was pretty ineffectual for most of the day. No possessions for the first half? His goal was opportunist, which he should be taking advantage of. He could have kicked it with his eyes shut. He just doesn't do it often enough. Take away the goal and he would be the lowest AF ranked Carlton player for the day.

He has the skill but was passenger like for most of the day. His 'work' is not that influential but, granted, it is a positive. At this stage of his development he should be contributing much more in terms of directly impacting the game.

 
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on August 19, 2024, 02:14:09 pm
Cripps is a great player, if he ever leaves we will plummet like a rock down the ladder, he carries this team on his back more than any other Carlton player I have ever seen including Judd and other greats of the club.
Going to be a sad day when he retires or god forbid leaves the club, happy we beat WC so easily and its probably put him off considering leaving to go home.
Cant get any better than screwing over Collingwoods finals chances, seeing Essendon crash out and Cripps dominate a WC team, thats a successful weekends work..
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: PaulP on August 19, 2024, 03:00:54 pm
I'm certainly happy for the win, and happy for the 4 points, but one has to wonder whether WC were trying and were outplayed, or whether they put the cue in the rack. It was a lacklustre effort IMO. Shame about those injuries. It's the very last thing we need.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: laj on August 19, 2024, 03:17:58 pm
"Not terrified, resigned to what's about happen. WC comfortably."

I think I made a typo in the pre-game thread...

They were relentless yesterday, which was great to see and one of the missing ingredients lately.

It will certainly give Lord, Binns and Moir confidence that they belong.

While St Kilda will be a bit tougher, I hope all the players that are 1-2 weeks on the injury list are given proper time to recover.




Those one or two weeks are near all hammys. They are 3 minimum. No way they play.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: RiverRat on August 19, 2024, 03:27:40 pm
The MC got it right - they are often criticized - with due cause - but they were on the ball this week - maybe the fact that there were so few players available for selection reduced the number of dopey decisions they could make.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: kruddler on August 19, 2024, 04:44:56 pm
I thought he looked like a Scottish Terrier chasing a tennis ball at the beach early.   Just running everywhere without getting to the right spots.   To his credit he seemed to pick up the pace of the game in the 2nd half and did some nice things which was great to see.

Youthful exhuberance
vs
Experience.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: kruddler on August 19, 2024, 04:51:56 pm
The only thing wrong with the move of Kemp to the forward line was that it took so long to try it.

The surprising thing was that some folks found it 'surprising'.

Everything about his draft profile suggested that he was a player who could play forward or back...maybe even some time as a midfielder.
His versatility was a strength.

He kicked 4, probably should have kicked 5.

Yes, it was only an abysmal, dreadful West Coast side, but he was our key target.
How would he go as our third medium, tall player with the ability to move into defence if needed.
He's a strong mark and he's durable.
Hopefully he showed enough to not be pigeon-holed in future.

We have 'tried it' before.
But its like when we were trying Josh Kennedy in the forwardline that had Brendan Fevola.
He was never the focal point.

The difference yesterday was there wasn't 2 coleman medalists demanding all the inside 50's and surprise surprise he can actually play.

As happy as everyone was for Kemp, if anyone is not, it might be Jack Silvagni. He may have just been made redundant overnight.
If Kemp can play 3rd tall, it allows us to ruck Harry without hurting our forward structure as a backup. Obviously handy to have if we get an injury in defense as well.

I made a list of 'needs' the other day, and we may have just filled one of them.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: stevie-poo on August 19, 2024, 04:53:14 pm
Didn't see that coming - CARNA BLUE BAGGERS!!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: Shakin77 on August 19, 2024, 04:55:43 pm

Some development all in one game...
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: kruddler on August 19, 2024, 05:02:08 pm
Nothing wrong with a fast learner.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: Blue Moon on August 19, 2024, 06:51:52 pm
I thought that we needed McGovern to play forward but Kemp was a better choice as it kept our defence solid.  O.Hollands in defence was good as it provides more options going forward and E.Hollands having more time through the middle gave us more pace and class. Williams and Durdin were excellent but Moir was a revelation. It will be interesting who Carlton bring in as we could have another debutante. One of the best four quarter efforts by an undermanned Carlton team for a long time, but we need to do it two weeks in a row otherwise it will be all wasted. I don't talk about Cripps and Weitering because there is nothing more to say.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: Lods on August 20, 2024, 07:27:22 am
We have 'tried it' before.
But its like when we were trying Josh Kennedy in the forwardline that had Brendan Fevola.
He was never the focal point.

The difference yesterday was there wasn't 2 coleman medalists demanding all the inside 50's and surprise surprise he can actually play.

As happy as everyone was for Kemp, if anyone is not, it might be Jack Silvagni. He may have just been made redundant overnight.
If Kemp can play 3rd tall, it allows us to ruck Harry without hurting our forward structure as a backup. Obviously handy to have if we get an injury in defense as well.

I made a list of 'needs' the other day, and we may have just filled one of them.

Have we?
'Cameos' aren't trying something different.
A quarter here, a quarter there....even a full game doesn't present a lot of opportunity to show what you can do.
A player needs a block of games to settle into a 'foreign' postition.
It's probably even fair to say that his efforts on the weekend aren't definitive.
He needs to back that up against better sides, that are ready for him as a forward.

I've suggested we try him forward for over a year now...but it's always met with resistance.
"Kemp is a defender" was the response.
Why weaken one position to fix up another?
I'm still not 100% sure that isn't sound logic, but I am pleased it's being given a go.

The conflict with Curnow and McKay in the side isn't a huge issue.
If it comes off Kemp will be a third tall.
You're right in that, apart from the rucking, Kemp may put a lot of pressure on Jack Silvagni who may have to reinvent himself.

The noise from the recruiting side is that we look like we're targeting medium/tall defenders.
Perhaps we have a  'cunning' plan in place.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: LP on August 20, 2024, 08:24:30 am
Have we?
'Cameos' aren't trying something different.
A quarter here, a quarter there....even a full game doesn't present a lot of opportunity to show what you can do.
.
.
.
If it comes off Kemp will be a third tall.
You're right in that, apart from the rucking, Kemp may put a lot of pressure on Jack Silvagni who may have to reinvent himself.
On the first part, it reminds me of Williams as a mid, we gave him a pre-season game and fans and the club wrote him off after getting suspended, it was stupidity. But now at his size and shape he'd only ever be a backup option for Cerra, Kennedy, Hewett, etc., etc., it's still an option if he could keep himself fit.

However, as I've mentioned since early in their careers, Kemp and SoJ should have been in the midfield rotations as a size for size chop out for Cripps. They are both more than useful attacking types with tricks for players their size and shape. SoJ even spent some time in the VFL playing in the midfield and looked OK, while there he was also tried in D50 and looked like a fish out of water, other than tagging SoJ doesn't have the D50 mindset and he just won't ever better McGovern or Weiters in that role and we've already got two his size and shape.

SoJ might work well as a defensive forward, but you'd think Kemp could go that role as well, and Kemp has SoJ covered for pace.

One good thing about Kemp working as a forward is that he raises the average leg speed of the group, he's as fast if not faster than Martin, Motlop, Owies, etc., etc..
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: Baggers on August 20, 2024, 08:27:29 am
Have we?
'Cameos' aren't trying something different.
A quarter here, a quarter there....even a full game doesn't present a lot of opportunity to show what you can do.
A player needs a block of games to settle into a 'foreign' postition.
It's probably even fair to say that his efforts on the weekend aren't definitive.
He needs to back that up against better sides, that are ready for him as a forward.

I've suggested we try him forward for over a year now...but it's always met with resistance.
"Kemp is a defender" was the response.
Why weaken one position to fix up another?
I'm still not 100% sure that isn't sound logic, but I am pleased it's being given a go.

The conflict with Curnow and McKay in the side isn't a huge issue.
If it comes off Kemp will be a third tall.
You're right in that, apart from the rucking, Kemp may put a lot of pressure on Jack Silvagni who may have to reinvent himself.

The noise from the recruiting side is that we look like we're targeting medium/tall defenders.
Perhaps we have a  'cunning' plan in place.

I wouldn't say that forward is a 'foreign' position for Kemp. He played much of his footy before joining us in that position. And he sure didn't play there on Sunday like it was foreign to him. Duck to water. The Aints will be prepared for him and he'll cop plenty of attention. And it doesn't automatically mean JSOS is out of a job, many have thought, correctly, that he is more than capable in the midfield and even defense, provided he can work on his speed over the grass. His footy IQ will be valuable wherever he's played.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: Baggers on August 20, 2024, 08:30:40 am
15 marks inside 50 against the Weagles... amazing what can happen when you lower your eyes ;)  ;D  ;D
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: LP on August 20, 2024, 08:30:44 am
And it doesn't automatically mean JSOS is out of a job, many have thought, correctly, that he is more than capable in the midfield and even defense, provided he can work on his speed over the grass. His footy IQ will be valuable wherever he's played.
Yep, it is the reality of the situation, you can't have 18 front-liners, the bulk of the squad have to play roles as required.

Not sure how Kemp would go or if he's even needed besides Charlie or Harry, but he's given himself an extra skill to sell to the MC when they construct the 22.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on August 20, 2024, 09:01:35 am
Jack was in trouble pre Kemp cameoing down forward. He was a fringe player before he did his knee and I don't see that changing.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: DJC on August 20, 2024, 11:48:44 am
I wouldn't say that forward is a 'foreign' position for Kemp. He played much of his footy before joining us in that position. And he sure didn't play there on Sunday like it was foreign to him. Duck to water. The Aints will be prepared for him and he'll cop plenty of attention. And it doesn't automatically mean JSOS is out of a job, many have thought, correctly, that he is more than capable in the midfield and even defense, provided he can work on his speed over the grass. His footy IQ will be valuable wherever he's played.

Kemp has played a lot of VFL footy as a key forward or swingman and I’m pretty sure that he has spent AFL time forward in previous seasons.

There’s an interview with Kemp on the club website where he talks about the conversation with Vossy that led to his focus on defence.  He mentions his versatility and the option of playing as a key forward if the need/opportunity arises.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: Gointocarlton on August 20, 2024, 11:53:21 am
Kemp has played a lot of VFL footy as a key forward or swingman and I’m pretty sure that he has spent AFL time forward in previous seasons.

There’s an interview with Kemp on the club website where he talks about the conversation with Vossy that led to his focus on defence.  He mentions his versatility and the option of playing as a key forward if the need/opportunity arises.
Dare I say it but is he the "swingman" we have been looking for?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: Thryleon on August 20, 2024, 01:58:59 pm
So my preference for this week, is if we are going back to the well, we should avoid the path well trod if possible.

Harry on one leg is better than all of them, and if you can argue to bring back an under done player he or Charlie are the only ones worth entertaining that for.  Even so, they both need to recover because winning this week only gives us 2 weeks.  Given we could lose and still make it if freo lose, then we shouldn't gamble on injured players.

Preferences in order for this week only:

1. Marchbank.  Only player coming back in that hasn't broken down (recently) who has genuine afl level talent.  Trust is the issue.  Will he break down again?  Unsure.  For that reason I have the rest not far behind him and would happily go others ahead of him.

2. Orazio.  Football smarts and team oriented.  Doesn't get it enough but will give 4 quarters.  The problem is reliability.  If he can't give us 4 quarters we are playing him as a sub and gambling we won't make one early.  No thanks.  Move on to 3 subject to that condition.

3. Akuei. He is athletic.  Will run all day.  Can play in the ruck.  Can play in defense.  Can play in offense.  Does none of it particularly well due to lack of football iq.  Could be a one hit wonder and provides the best flexibility out of our options.

4.  Mirkov.  Pittonet is the part of the team we still don't have adequate coverage for until de koning comes back.  I'd rather not ruck cripps or kennedy.  We need one forward and cripps needs to be at the ball drop.  We also need to work out if mirkov is worth persisting with.  So mirkov makes more sense particularly as he brings an awkward height advantage that might allow us to make life difficult by parking him forward.  He is however not a good mark and around the ground player which makes it harder for him to play with pittonet and id rather playhim in a side that has tdk in it.


A distant 5th is Lemmey.  Whilst everyone sees the attraction he is a glacial lump of a lad.  If you parked him at full forward and told him to hit up at the footy twice a quarter and his teamates to honour the lead as a last resort I'd say fair enough but he will get run off all day.  He is a trier but needs some time.  Time to get his body in better condition for afl.  It's not the ability that's his problem its capability at this stage. Can we carry a player who might give us nothing?  We lose more from that level than anyone else.  If pittonet wasn't playing he would be my second to mirkov. 

So for mine one change is durdin out for mirkov. 
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: Gointocarlton on August 20, 2024, 03:26:51 pm
So my preference for this week, is if we are going back to the well, we should avoid the path well trod if possible.
1. Marchbank.  Only player coming back in that hasn't broken down (recently) who has genuine afl level talent.  Trust is the issue.  Will he break down again?  Unsure.  For that reason I have the rest not far behind him and would happily go others ahead of him.
LOL, not sure I understand:
Came in rnd 4 got injured
Came in rnd 11 got injured
Came in rnd 19 got injured
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on August 20, 2024, 04:46:48 pm
Marshall will slaughter Mirkov....couldn't afford 10 minutes a quarter of that duel.
Be a Saints goal fest....
Akuei....not in a mini final like this...
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: madbluboy on August 20, 2024, 04:55:07 pm
LOL, not sure I understand:
Came in rnd 4 got injured
Came in rnd 11 got injured
Came in rnd 19 got injured

Well it was better than Martin who took Fogarty out with him.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: Sexybronco on August 20, 2024, 05:26:09 pm
Well it was better than Martin who took Fogarty out with him.
In the first 5 minutes of the game none the less!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: Gointocarlton on August 20, 2024, 05:53:20 pm
I couldn't care less how Martin, Marchbank, Cunningham et al get injured, I'd rather save the embarrassment and go in 1 man down or with an unproven newby than risk it with any of those. Pick any of them and it will be a disaster, Ive seen that movie a thousand times, I know how it ends.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: kruddler on August 20, 2024, 06:24:49 pm
Well it was better than Martin who took Fogarty out with him.
Did Martin take out fogarty or was it the other way around?

Martin ended up with the ball.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: cookie2 on August 20, 2024, 06:52:43 pm
I couldn't care less how Martin, Marchbank, Cunningham et al get injured, I'd rather save the embarrassment and go in 1 man down or with an unproven newby than risk it with any of those. Pick any of them and it will be a disaster, Ive seen that movie a thousand times, I know how it ends.

Leave ‘em in the crystal cabinet. Go with the Pyrex.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: Thryleon on August 20, 2024, 07:55:13 pm
LOL, not sure I understand:
Came in rnd 4 got injured
Came in rnd 11 got injured
Came in rnd 19 got injured
marchbank played 84% game time and then got concussion and was subbed out the following week.  Not exactly "injured". 
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: Thryleon on August 20, 2024, 07:56:16 pm
Did Martin take out fogarty or was it the other way around?

Martin ended up with the ball.
No, Martin took out fogarty.  He should have shepherded his opponent out of the contest and let fogarty going with the flight of the ball have it.

No real.blame should be attributed but Martin could have avoided it easier than fogarty.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: kruddler on August 20, 2024, 08:07:02 pm
No, Martin took out fogarty.  He should have shepherded his opponent out of the contest and let fogarty going either the flight of the ball have it.

No real.blame should be attributed but Martin could have avoided it easier than fogarty.

I rewatched the incident a few times before i posted before.

Martin had more space on his opponent than Fogarty had on his.
They both came from weird angles to the ball, not simply a going back with the flight of the ball. Martins back was to goal. Fogarty coming across the goal.
Ball was in Martins hands when they collided and Martin maintained possession after the hit.

IF Martin, stopped and called him through, Fogarty would've been tackled immediately as his opponent was right on him.
IF Fogarty, stopped and called him through, Martin had 1.5m on his opponent and was more likely to be clear.

I don't think either of them had enough time to calculate all that and i don't blame either one of them for their attack on the ball.

My whole point is that i don't think either are to blame, but to single out Martin is a bit harsh. If anything i think its 51% Fogarty, 49% Martins fault.


But Fogarty has more 'good vibes' compared to Martin, so people side with him.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: kruddler on August 20, 2024, 08:13:34 pm
Here's a thought experiment for you....

The AFL are outcome based and penalise players who make contact and injure another player.....even if in a normal world it would be considered an 'accident'.

If this was 1 player from each team. Who would the AFL penalise?

It reminds me of the Plowman / O'Meara incident.

Plowman got suspended because he didn't get injured. Even through he went for the ball, and got the ball.

Would the AFL suspend Martin who got to the ball first but potentially saw him coming?
Would the AFL suspend Fogarty because he got to it second and should've tackled?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: madbluboy on August 20, 2024, 08:22:08 pm
Live at the game it was Fogarty's ball. No question.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: madbluboy on August 20, 2024, 08:23:32 pm
I haven't even seen a replay and have no intention of watching that game ever again.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: kruddler on August 20, 2024, 08:25:09 pm
Live at the game it was Fogarty's ball. No question.

Depends on where you were sitting to the angle you saw.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: northernblue on August 20, 2024, 08:27:02 pm
I rewatched the incident a few times before i posted before.

Martin had more space on his opponent than Fogarty had on his.
They both came from weird angles to the ball, not simply a going back with the flight of the ball. Martins back was to goal. Fogarty coming across the goal.
Ball was in Martins hands when they collided and Martin maintained possession after the hit.

IF Martin, stopped and called him through, Fogarty would've been tackled immediately as his opponent was right on him.
IF Fogarty, stopped and called him through, Martin had 1.5m on his opponent and was more likely to be clear.

I don't think either of them had enough time to calculate all that and i don't blame either one of them for their attack on the ball.

My whole point is that i don't think either are to blame, but to single out Martin is a bit harsh. If anything i think its 51% Fogarty, 49% Martins fault.


But Fogarty has more 'good vibes' compared to Martin, so people side with him.

In an ideal world Martin should have called the play, he had the better view of what was unfolding… did he call ?
If he did Fog wasn’t listening.
In Fogs position you rely on your teamates to call you in/out or at least try to protect you, especially to protect you from them.
Accidents happen, but it was costly.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: kruddler on August 20, 2024, 08:40:26 pm
In an ideal world Martin should have called the play, he had the better view of what was unfolding… did he call ?
If he did Fog wasn’t listening.
In Fogs position you rely on your teamates to call you in/out or at least try to protect you, especially to protect you from them.
Accidents happen, but it was costly.
100%

World is far from ideal though.

One thing that has me stuffed though.

How does a collision injury result in a hamstring???
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: DJC on August 20, 2024, 09:03:37 pm
100%

World is far from ideal though.

One thing that has me stuffed though.

How does a collision injury result in a hamstring???

Hyperextension of the leg resulting in stretched hamstring muscle fibres.  Seems like it was a very minor strain or tightness.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: LoveNavy on August 21, 2024, 09:03:19 pm
Unbelievable backs to the wall type victory. Never thought we had it in us. Momentum is a wonderful thing. Let's hope we've got enough of it to continue on into September.

X2
I'm pleasantly surprised and in awe of this group.
Hats off to the leadership and never say die attitude. What a superb initiation for young Binns, Lorde, and Moir. They really matched the commitment of the seniors. I don't think there were any passengers. That’s what it takes 👏🏼
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: Thryleon on August 21, 2024, 09:06:25 pm
If there were any doubts about cripps standing in the game and our footy club this match showed why he's one of our best ever.

He said come with me boys and led the way and they jumped on his coat tails.  Hopefully we won't need him to do it this week.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 23 2024 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs West Coast
Post by: LoveNavy on August 21, 2024, 09:22:13 pm
George has been a very important and unheralded piece of this side for a while, why he was dropped this year...

A mystery that perplexed many. If a mid might have benefited from a rest, it's Walshy IMO. He's been belted and double tagged. Subsequently getting caught and perhaps hurt, repeatedly.