Do we have a pulse?
Just
Not anymore. We are relying on port to win a dead rubber. We have one thing going for us and that's that hinkley may want to do voss a favour.
Have a bad feeling Freo will beat Port who are flaky away from home...
Just about guaranteed EB.
Hope you're happy Ross, nice pyrrhic victory champ.
I'd say we have a strong heartbeat.
But in the end our bodies let us down.
Well.......that sucks.
I'd rather we lost by 10 goals than be leading with 15 seconds to go and lose.
That was the worst game I’ve seen live.
I cannot stand Ross Lyon coached teams, it is a crap display.
we played like crap.
The umpiring is a completely mystery and fantasy and I’m really over it so not fussed if Freo win.
Another year wasted. Another year ending in heartache. Games dropped we had while we had a healthy list cost us again. Not good enough for long enough. Went backwards from last year as the pack caught up and some like hawthorn past us.
Bitterly disappointed as i really thought we would go deep in finals but just shows you in the comp if you aren’t improving you are headed backwards.
Ballsy changes needed over the offseason to get us back into finals.
You know, cripps just played one of the best games of his career particularly in quarter 3, and we gambled on weak smalls like motlop and durdin who effectively gave us nothing for 3/4 of the game.
Fantasia breaking down late summed it up best. Too bad we couldn't have played hawthorn the saints and North earlier when their seasons were not going rather than playing pretty much everyone but Brisbane at their best.
Frigging Kemp!
Well i think we have the record for playing the most amount of small forwards in a game.
Owies
Motlop
Durdin
Fantasia
Moir
....
Lord?
E. Hollands?
Carroll?
How Moir got the short end of the stick i don't understand.
Durdin can count himself lucky.
That could've cost us the match as Moir is a difference maker and i look forward to watching him develop.
Umpiring was terrible, hate all the rule changes that came into effect this season...the HTB/HTM rule varies every week, some players get 5 minutes to get rid of the ball and other get 5s.
Lyon hasnt changed since his Freo days, scrag your opponents at every opportunity and crowd the backline so the opposition have to kick it around in circles looking for a gap. Horrible to watch and depressing when you lose like we did.....
He is a backman forced forward due to injuries, two weeks in a row was always going to be a tough ask for Kemp to be a hero.
My kids were complaining how boring the game was and how the atmosphere felt sucked out / thank Christ we didn’t get that knob, I cannot stand him.
The umpiring is a complete joke and a lottery as to who gets what and when!
Don't care. 20m out, kick the bloody thing. No excuse missing from there.
Another wasted year...possibly.
2 years out of 3, last minute.
We left boys to do a job the men should have done much earlier.
Scraping over the line today is not the sort of form you want going into finals though.
Angry ..... you betcha !!
Was not confident of the result pre-game and it played out that way.
Haven't watched the replay as I had to work but don't think I will now.
Selection decisions have been as dumb as dog-poo the last month so we only have ourselves to blame.
Blaming Kemp for the loss - is just not right.
Yep Fantasia shouldn't have played and we would have been put out of our misery much earlier.
He was consistently scragged for the entire game by 2-3 opponents / don’t think we can blame him. Many others did a whole bucket of f*ck all.
What type of selection decisions does one require when half the list (19 players) are on the injury list.
Good analogy.
So much for us learning to not get beaten at the death 🙄 has happened a few times this year 🙄 again.
FFS, can the AFL and the umpires lock themselves in a room and watch that game and analyse the 'holding the ball' rule.
There is more than enough incorrect decisions to go over and sort out their $h!t. We'd be in double figures of OBVIOUSLY wrong decisions.
1-7 in the first quarter
8-0 in the last quarter (i think)
....but the umpires don't even up the free kicks.
Poor umpiring took away from the spectacle of the game.
(Didn't effect the result, just the spectacle)
It was a might effort. 10 of our best side were out.
Please watch it - I watched it live and can’t stomach another viewing. But would like to know if the free kick count of 12-1 deep in the second quarter was fair or not. And calls against Cripps for another goal to them, was there. And the HTB was there against us but not them. And the HTM was there too.
Fans are focussed on the last quarter missed opportunities, it's the wrong focus and it papers over all the wasted footy early in the game, we should have been level or even ahead at 1/2-time, but we burnt F50 entries time and time again and often uncontested / unforced errors.
A complete lack of composure when we have the footy, and it's not the forwards that are to blame.
We have plenty of run, plenty of fitness, we finish strongly, as strong as any other team, we need some calm reliable ball users who are functional on both sides of the body.
You weren't the bottle thrower were you?
I missed that as i was driving home from a birthday at the time, but heard it on the radio.
What happened to the umpire, did they go off?
I noticed a female ump, i'm assuming it wasn't her who got hit.
Why do they put numbers on the umpires backs. It makes the crowd notice an umpire that’s perceived to be against us and I think dangerous to them! Yes I’m talking number 32 lol but seriously people around me were absolutely baying for blood. I think they shouldn’t be so identifiable.
he's the soft target. Durdin, acres, Kennedy. All missed Joe the goose set shots.
We need to educate our fan base, we spend all the time booing in unison and don't call the frees, we need a smarter crowd that calls "ball" or "throw" instead of booing, booing does nothing.
At least we made BT, SOS and Ross The Boss happy, an yearly Christmas present for them if Freo get up, they are on at the moment and Port look to have packed up.
Missed from 20m with 2 odd minutes on the clock. No one should miss from there.
Or.....
The AFL could get the decisions right.
Saints missed some sitters too, we let them kick some goals that were too easy and if it comes down to one player having to kick a goal to win it means you should never really have to put yourself in that position.
Effort wasnt bad today it was just the injury toll , some weird umpiring and frustrating Stkilda gamestyle that proved too much.
Kernahan kicked it out on the full with scores level.
150% effort in the front half 50% class
More disposals than the Saints but 44% efficiency inside 50...we have too many player's who rack up big stats outside 50 but do nothing with the ball delivering inside 50. That was about the only stat other than the hitouts we were poor at...
We need mids who can use the ball better rather than just collecting useless possessions.
Positives - 2025 draw will be the same as Sydney and Geelongs this season if Freo win
Moir should have been in the run-on team, not the sub !!
And that bullcrap naming of Curnow, who were they trying to kid ??
Ironic that Paddy Dow stuck it up us.
Glad I didnt go, those losses are heartbreakers for kids to have to sit through and I have given up on the umpiring, its out of control in terms of consistency and the AFL dont know what to do to simplify the game to make it easy to umpire, more rules, more grey areas, leading to more confusion is their solution.
I've got an idea...... :-X
Someone at the Carlton cheers quad end threw a water bottle and hit the girl umpire in the head. Can't recall any controversial decisions.
Our Mids are OK, but we need one or two serious ball users when entering F50. We'll get improvement from OH, and I wonder about Lord and Binns what they can do, I'm not expecting much improvement from the older heads but they are the grunt.
Some will claim we won the stoppages and clearances, but the bulk of them are meaningless because it's often a kick to nobody or a turnover on our HF line.
It was the bloke goal umpiring at the start, Chelsea Roffey was the substitute for the injured umpire.
Saints won exactly how Hoyne predicted. Chains from the backline.
Need to be careful with the 'facts'. It was a male goal umpire and the thrower was a Carlton supporter not associated with the cheer squad.
I wrote goal. Auto correct changed it to girl.
I said cheersquad end not the cheersquad.
That often started with our poor disposal going into F50.
Hit our targets and the Aints turnover opportunities are slashed, and we don't burn energy chasing, we'd be even stronger at the end!
Saints are the number 1 defensive chain to goal side in the comp. Against anyone, Hoyne predicted what would happen.
You can't rebound without the footy, our errors gave the Aints that result, not their own hard work.
We turned over uncontested and unforced footy multiple times, no team can tolerate that, it left our D50 out of position, no AFL team s expects experienced AFL players to miss 20m or 25m passes to wide open players.
We basically had the Aints D50 setup sliced open multiple times and b0rked it up!
If it was so commonly known, then why did our coaching group not have a Plan B to address that issue ??
I thought our MC did very well today, it wasn't a tackle route it was a problem of execution.
They need to listen to SEN
Thanks MBB..
Found this for anyone who hasn't seen it....
https://7news.com.au/sport/afl/afl-umpire-steve-pipernos-head-split-open-after-being-hit-by-a-water-bottle-from-a-fan-in-the-crowd-c-15824962
I don't care it's obvious why we lost, we played all over the Aints early, had double the inside F50s and went to the break behind on the scoreboard.
Hoyne predicted it. With stats.
Just back from the game. Very disappointed.
[1] The Umpires were terrible. The things they missed and ignored when watching less than 15 m from the ball. They have no idea how long 15 m actually is. They simply weren't watching what happened or waiting for the other guy to make a decision. Most unprofessional performance I can remember, and I have a long memory.
[2] For what was basically a VFL side without a key forward, we did pretty well. Not a lot of glory beating us with so many injuries. Not that it will stop the morons on the other side.
[3] Kicking into the forward line: I could wax lyrical about this one, but the forwards didn't help. They were so static! Haven't they heard of leading? Or opening leading lanes?
Sorry we didn't give you a better result.
On this 3rd point, it's no use shooting the crew in the temporary F50 setup today, our kicking has been very much the same horrendous disposal even when Harry and Charlie are on the lead in front.
Get the ball use right and our points for will go through the roof, the rest will look after itself.
No mention of how many other predictions have been made, but NOT come true.
Yep, we lacked composure and connection, a better team would have feasted on us, but we were playing St Kilda and had a chance to win the game. I must say I’m bitterly disappointed with the result because we were better than them in the last quarter and couldn’t make it stick, players will be shattered, would have loved the ball in Moir’s hand for that last shot at goal to ice the game. Not sure how we turn the emotion around should Port get over Freo, but we’ll have 2 weeks to sort that out should it happen.
What utter heartbreak, relying on PA now but we had it won against the odds. Proud of the fight and heart they showed.
Didn't see the throwing incident, but that was indefensible. Whoever did that is toast. Besides, the goal umpires were not at fault. the field umpires, on the other hand, ....
If we were good enough, we would have won, but their incompetence ... I just have the words to describe them.
I've done my share of umpiring, but I simply didn't make those sorts of mistakes. Not AFL, granted, just under-age and school stuff, but there was only one of me.
I haven't started up a thread for the finals yet, as I have no idea if we'll make it. Port now ahead of Freo, who are even more disappointing than we are. I won't start up a thread until the result is known.
The worst team we have put on the park for a couple of years and we lost with nearly last the last kick of the day.
Pretty fine effort of spirit from us I thought.
Wouldn't be too proud if I was saints after finals last year Ross has them in a death spiral.
We have rolled the dice for the last 5 years by continually keeping players on our list who are constantly injured and not available. Everyone tells me how great Russell was with Curnow’s knees. Great job there but an absolute bloodbath everybody else. List selection needs a ruthless shake up I mean adding another injury prone muppet in Fantasia was just the last straw Marchbank Cunningham Martin Williams sick of cameo games that makes us think wow but then out for slightest ailments that warriors like Cripps rise above. Clean out the cupboard even Docherty should be borderline but he and Silvagni have some credits in the bank.
This is what has possibly cost us the finals this year we ran out of fit good players 6 weeks ago
What happened to fantasia?
Copped a knock after helping us almost win the game.
Fantasia had 10 possessions today, but he was worth his spot. Each of his possessions hurt St. Kilda.
Jesse Motlop: 4 possessions and only one of them a good one - his goal. His season has been a right-off. Never been either fit nor in form. He is one who really needs to pull the finger out.
Matt Owies: some total brain fades today. 11 disposals, but not many good ones. We should sign him up, but he is another who really needs to work on his disposal and decision making over the summer.
Brodie Kemp: a forward cannot afford to two-grab every mark. As for his leading, I don't remember seeing many. He has a lot going for him, but he needs to work on his decision making and kicking.
Jack Carroll: did some things, but doesn't do enough. I think Cooper Lord might pass him pretty soon. I liked Lord's game: 19 possessions and 7 tackles.
Ashton Moir: there is a fair bit of promise there! He did more in 1 quarter than Motlop did in 4. He made some decent decisions and his kicking was good. We've got one here!
I thought the same, from limited opportunities he had game influence and I can't say he's had that much game influence in any other game.
The “girl umpire” was the replacement… the male umpire that was struck by the plastic water bottle went off and stayed off.
Freo will finish over the top IMO
Young wasn't too bad today, but his decision making is not good. We need to find another tall defender, as we can't relay on Young when the pressure is on.
Weitering was Weitering. He is one of the best in the business, but he isn't quick.
Our small defenders will probably have to carry the can for the loss: St Kilda small forwards got goals that ultimately won the game. However, I thought our small defenders were pretty good. Saad did some great things. Newman was close to BOG: he got leather poisoning. Cowan wasn't bad either.
I wrote goal. Auto correct.
Acres and Hollands weren't bad, but we have to develop enough negative from them to close down their opponents.
And I missed mentioning Cincotta, who I thought did a great job.
Hoping Port can hang on but Freo at home with the crowd willing them on you would think should be able to get it done unfortunately.
Cant warm to Justin Longmuir so apart from us needing to win, Freo losing might go some of the way to ease the pain of losing to Stkilda, still cant believe we lost today ...
If we are going to win a flag with this list i think we have more to gain by missing the finals this year let the pain burn deep again and learn from another wasted year.
Not much to gain by making it by waiting for others to lose. Winners make it on their own.
We are decimated and on our knees injury wise therefore we are not going to get past week 1 of the finals.
More to gain to miss imo then sneak in and be kicked out.
I want this to burn the group bad.
Our small forwards just frustrate the beejesus out of me. Moir has a future, so play him. He looks like an AFL level forward.
Don't waste time on craptrucks that can't do their role. Motlop would want to rock up day one of PS in sparkling condition because he should be on notice. No passengers.
Even if we fall into the finals which it looks like we will I dont expect us to progress too far and Id expect a busy trade period.
WOOOHOOO!!
H, Charlie, TDK, Cerra, Zac, Martin, Gov, Doc to come back in?
We're in, thanks Port.
With a few back we will be dangerous. Sydney were awful for a while but come good. Some important one back, not all as these kids did nothing short of a brilliant job. Gabba is no fortress this year. Don't care where we play them.
No way to half that list, lost all trust. Reward those who put in when times were tough, no passengers.
Agree...Id go with 100% fit players only and keep some of the kids who have come in and tried very hard like Lord and Binns in particular.
100%. The kids ain't our problem.
Nothing matters, it is all about the future.
What a roller coaster 🤯
I didn't think we'd win and was ok with the effort overall. How often have the Tigers smalls delivered our rears on a plate?
Some good signs from a couple of the kids again. It will be great for them to be exposed to finals antics. Not that I'm expecting more than 1 final.
Unfortunately, there were too many passengers today. Against a club that would have been revelling in our hideous injury woes.
Recover. Reset the mind. Give it your best in 2 weeks. Hopefully we'll have a few more selection options. When you're down to debutants on the sideline at the pointy end, the odds are heavily stacked against you.
Go Blues
Team was good enough to make the eight and good enough to win the flag. Thats my opinion.
Midfield played really well - we had no intercept defenders and no key forwards and almost beat a team in red hot form.
Some team structure will help and that includes both martin and Zac in the equation for this season the way the list composition is today. Next year is a different story.
We are over due for a but of luck too.
What an exhausting day.
Fox sports said the Carlton players would be all together watching the freo port game, would’ve loved to have seen the reaction.
Who cares.
If he is even considered for the game against the Lions, in the words of Terry Wallace, I will spew up!
To me it’s a stark difference no matter who we play but it’s not the kicking skills, it’s the football nouse from the forwards to be able to create and have the awareness of space - and then, equally as important, for the kickers to quickly calculate where the delivery of the ball will be to their advantage.
How many times did we see the St Kilda forwards run onto the ball that was kicked to where they weren’t … until they were?
Our delivery has never been like this. We rely on Curnow and McKay to win the physical one on one contest. Maybe that’s why Walsh and Kennedy who get the ball A LOT have such poor disposal efficiency ratings?
Frustrates me that this part of our game plan is so poorly developed when one would think it’s an easy skill or system to practice.
Sometimes its where the players run to that is the problem. I saw one yesterday where our bloke ran straight towards the vicinity of a StK player and that's where I think it was Kennedy kicked to. The StK player read it and intercepted and the TO occurred. There weren't any options from memory although I'll stand corrected but the lack of awareness of the player to choose to run towards trouble was the problem on that occasion. Happens a lot in our games.
Even though Cripps had a very good game and led from the front, to my eyes it didn't just look like it was him and then daylight, which has happened far too often in recent times. I thought Hewett and Walsh also played well.
I have been going to the football since 1963. That was one of the best efforts by a Carlton team in 62 years of watching footy. If this team could turn up every week and play out every game like they did yesterday then there would be few problems. The Club's culture for the past 25 years is the team picks and chooses when they are going to have a go. Yesterday they chose to have a go.
I believe we have a very strong list. Moir, Binns and Lord showed how deep we can go the question is why the MC didn't use a player like Binns earlier. There has been times when O.Hollands has struggled this year but giving him a role down back has freed him up and Binns has shown he is ready for AFL football. If you don't give players like Lemmey, Wilson and Akuei a chance in the big show you will never know if they can dance. VFL football is not always a good indicator as to how players will go in the AFL. Also we can concentrate on what players can't do like Young, Motlop and Durdin and miss what they can actually do. These are things Voss should think about.
We have the foundations of a very good team. Congratulations to Silvagni for that. We also have a lot of depth and young players coming through. Congratulations to Austin for that.
Once again we have failed to make top four when we should have. With Curnow, McKay, McGovern, Williams and TDK rested and coming available we can have a real crack and other than Docherty returning I would only consider any of the others being available as helping with depth.
Big shout out to Pittonett and Fantasia for their games, Walsh played better and it was clear players like Saad, Acres, Kennedy and Durdin were playing through injury. A week's rest should do wonders.
My recollection is that we were all frustrated with the slowness of Curnow’s recovery.
His return was always “a few weeks away”.
Then I heard that the fitness staff were trying experimental rehab techniques and it was only when they reverted to the tried and tested approach that he came good.
Anyway, hopefully the club chooses wisely going forward and we don’t have that excuse next season.
I can't say what it was like way back when, but I'd say it's impossible for any team to maintain that level of intensity week in week out in the modern era. Every team in the finals has had form slumps, some more extended than others. I think the length of the season, number of games etc. is stretching the players too much, but that's another issue.
It’s funny how free kicks ended up at 15-17 after being 1-11 at one stage.
Cripps was treated very harshly with a couple of shockers and non-decisions. I hope the umpires were a little kinder when they awarded the Brownlow votes 🤞
It was a game that got away or rather a game that we let get away. There was so much to like about the way we went about it - and the way some whipping boys stood up - but some poor decisions and poor execution cost us in the end.
Even back in the olden days Paul, with some of our very best sides... there was often a "mid season slump".
It's always been difficult to maintain that level of intensity for an entire season.
It's why no club has ever gone through undefeated.
What is probably a bit different is that there were times back then when sides could 'coast' a bit through games.
These days if you're just couple of percent off with your effort a bottom side can challenge a top side.
Hewett was massive as was Newman
Some of our players are going up a level at the right time of year. Just booked flights and accommodation. See you in brisvegas
Paul P, I think you have missed my point. I am not talking about manic intensity I am talking about not giving up and trying to play four quarters. There are four games this year where we have exhibited these traits, Round 1 when Brisbane blew us out of the water and we lost Docherty in the first half but we kept fighting, the Geelong game, the WCE game where we took a half arsed side over there and won, and Sunday's game where we took St.Kilda to the last kick. Don't give up, do your best and don't stop trying and don't worry about the result.
Moir’s lack of fitness was discussed when he was drafted. He was way behind our other draftees and struggled through the pre-season. His form in the VFL reflected that; flashes of brilliance but long periods MIA.
His use as a tactical sub late in the game suits his level of fitness and his talent. However, he could be a liability if he was activated as an injury sub early in the game.
Moir will be a ripper with a full preseason under his belt.
by kicking a goal from a bull-sht free? did nothing else all game.
was thinking that, even with all these injuries, dow and stocker still may have struggled to get a game with us
that we'd miss 3 sitters in the first q, and not capitalise on our momentum in the first q?
Decent defender but looks like a deer in the headlights when we make the mistake of passing the ball to him and, after his usual indecision, his disposal leaves a lot to be desired.
the 15m thing was a joke, esp early. aints were hitting 4m kicks out of d50....
Its a bit like the old fashioned ruckman trained to dish it off immediately to someone running passed.
Just appalling umpiring with respect to kick distances all day.
Acres was a warrior again. def not close to fit, but busts a gut at every contest
Why wasn't Moir in the selected side?
Why was Caroll the one subbed out instead of Motlop or Durdin?
Was Durdin fully fit?
Motlop looks to be a very lazy player to me, I see injured player give more effort.
That free to Dow was a shocker. It was holding the ball or, at worst, a ball up.
And what was Lyon thinking when he asked Stocker to play on Cripps?
Ii seemed to me that Young's first thought after winning possession was to look to handpass to a teammate running past. Was that under instruction?
He does wave the ball in a circular motion before kicking. I don't know whether that affects his disposal but it adds a little time to his kicking action.
Apart from that, I thought that he was OK and our defence more balanced than it has been. We did miss McGovern/Kemp intercepting and helping out in marking contests.
On the umpiring, I though the bigger problem were the frees not being paid as opposed to some they paid.
In particular, our blokes gang tackled opponents who were permitted to either hang on to the footy much longer than anytime in the last couple of months, or stone cold drop it unpenalized. Now I don't mind them putting the whistle away, but will Charlie again get that option if he returns?
Phillipou and I think Higgins both made blatant front on contact with our defenders that resulted in goals, Phillipou was a straight out no eyes for the footy front on push into the guts of a marking player and he wasn't penalised, I think it was Acres trying to mark. The umpire in both cases was standing between the camera and the players watching, it was unmissable! Saad brushed somebodies forearm from front on and got penalised!
The only other bad one was "the guess" by the umpire that penalised Cripps for a throw, Cripps clearly handballed and the umpire was behind player bodies and completely unsighted.
I think part of the problem with his disposal is lack of time.
I think the majority of the time, his 'lack of time' comes about because he fumbles so much.
If he was cleaner with the ball and 1-grabbed it, he (and we) would be much better.
Its something i think as a club we have improved this year. Being clean with picking up the ball and not fumbling it. So when it does happen (and it always seems to happen to Young) it stands out a lot.
Not sure if he'll get a chance this year to fix that now.
I thought Newman and OH both had their best games for the club, I thought Binns and Lord were OK too but coming from a low base so it's nothing to talk about just yet.
Pitto was OK but early Marshall exposed some of his flaws against more agile types, but early on the umpiring was also a mystery bag. Later when things became more physical Pitto used his strength to claw back the advantage.
Was nice to see Moir slot a goal on the run with the wrong side of his body, watching that you would hardly know he is a right footer.
I've watched the replay twice now, and we must either hate Kennedy or he was told he had to be Billy Brownless for a day, because he was at least 5m clear on the lead right up the guts inside F50 more than once and we burnt him for Kemp in the pocket.
He is injured.
He could barely get up a jog at one point.
Plays his role perfectly and thats to make space and take an opponent with him.
He can still kick it, and opponents were basically leaving him unattended, we kicked to at best a 50/50 contest instead.
We only had to use Kennedy once or twice and it's a one or two goal swing, and the opposition then have doubt about who to head for, leaving Kemp in a one on one instead of two on one. It's robotic, predictable, dumb football not to use the player who is open.
We did what Freo did, we should have been doing what Port do (Butters and JHF).
Can he?
Its a leg injury, i think its ankle from the Hawthorn game, but he may be carrying more than that.
I've got no problem with Kennedy, or our blokes trying to use Kemp. He was brilliant last week and although he couldn't reach the same height, his aerial work is worth giving him a go.
When in doubt, take the deeper option.
It's tactical. You play a small forwardline means you kick to the 3 on one contest and back your man in to bring it to ground where our smalls can go to work.
At one stage I was thinking Kemp needed help and thought it might be worth swinging young forward.
That's one of the issues of the criticism of Kemp this game.
Ideally he is the third tall forward not the key tall forward.
We won't get a good handle on his value forward until Curnow and McKay are back taking key defenders.
(problem is that when that happens he'll probably be sent back)
I understand some of the Young criticisms but at least he’s fit to play week in week out .
McGovern a better player but if I read about hamstring awareness after every game then missing a week or two I’ll go nuts!
Or Marchbank being a week or two away 🙄
Young and kemp are who we have not perfect but out there
I watched Moir closely in the pre-game warm up - he uses whichever foot suits where he is on the ground. In his practice shots at goal, when he was left of centre, he kicked with his right foot, when he was right of centre (like his shot in the last quarter), he kicked with his left foot. Seriously could not tell which was his preferred foot.
This guy is a real smokey, can't wait to see him after he has another pre-season under his belt.
Yep, remember that video around the time of his drafting? Seriously talented. I have not seen a kick like him at Carlton.
Heath Scotland was superb, indistinguishable on left or right.
If you like moon balls on blokes heads
Whilst I don’t believe Scotland’s kicking was that bad, I too remember the commentary in here, there were plenty who shared your opinion.
To see someone waxing so lyrical though… 🙄
Yes, i was probably one that had a distaste for his style of entry.
Kick long 50m on either foot, absolutely.
Just don't bother leading for it because the whole opposition would be able to get back and help out by the time it landed.
Fev was asked about who he liked delivering the ball to him, Murphy, Scotland etc He answered with Hoops (aka Houlihan)
Now there was a kick of the ball!
It was a good trick but he overdid it, with the inevitable 40 metres up and 40 long chip kick on his left you can say he telegraphed it a bit. I'd hate to be the bloke up the ground waiting for it to come down.
I don't ever remember Scotland spearing one laces out. He tend did to kick it high.
While we one this topic I seem to remember one M Mansfield had some good hang time in his kicks as well.
Why you gotta poke the bear. lol
Remember the Ben Dixon kick after the siren to beat us?
I was there.
Earlier on the day i remember Mick Mansfield diving backwards towards goal to take a mark (that was going through our goals) but he fumbled it and went through for a point. At the time i already had a dislike for him and his recruitment. I commented to my mate, i betcha that stupid idiot costs us the game with that.
Fast forward to the end of the game......
:o ::) >:( >:( >:(
Mansfield...
When he was at Geelong I remember him being a player I'd love to have.
We got the dregs of his career.
He came to us we were an ageing side and his last season was that horror show in 2002.
:o Mate Scotto was one of the the better kicks I've ever seen (on both sides).
https://youtu.be/_UYmnt3fZmk?si=KgCYQ4EJ23l-hTys
A lot of Scotland long bombs were the result of Fev not being overly keen to run too far, but the team tactics and structure is irrelevant to kicking ability.
Scotland was silk on both sides of his body, he was so good you didn't even notice it. On his left he was as good as Newman, and on his right he was as good as McGovern. He always had time and space because he turned either way without hesitation. He could easily peg bullet like passes, but most forwards do not want the footy delivered like that.
Houlihan was great on his preferred side, particularly when given time and space to run off HB and deliver from the wing. It suited Fev because being an accurate long range kick the run off HB gave him space inside F50. I can't say Houlihan was better than SMurph, but for Fev a lot of SMurph's footy came hot out of the Midfield when Fev had far less time and space. Remember this was back in the no zone days and opposition could camp a defender in front of the forwards.
@madbluboy I thought it was clearly Fantasia's best game for us, for me Motlop was a bit disappointing because despite his goal he is just not working or defending hard enough when we are outside goal range and don't have the footy. However, Motlop finishes reliably and not finishing has cost us dearly in recent weeks.
The question on Fantasia will be if / when Charlie and Harry return and our runner types then have to deal with upgraded opponents. Last game our small F50 worked for Fantasia, which is why for me some of the others were even more disappointing last game.
our team defence does not exist who is our defence coach needs to be replaced . after kemp miss shot how easy was it for saints to create a easy scoring opportunity but it happens in a lot of games wer oppositio9n score easy goals.
@pew2 Our D50 defensive crew is not the problem, it's players further up the field not sticking with opponents when needed. So team defence is a problem not the backline, please be specific when discussing this stuff because reading it feels like rocks are being thrown at our D50 crew.
What can our defenders do when players like Motlop or Acres are caught daydreaming or guarding grass?
When guys like Weiters of Newman roll off their own opponents fans will scream bloody murder about them leaving an opponent, but they do that to try and cover some unguarded opponent. The players up the ground aren't running deep enough to compress the available space.
We got quite a range of dregs apart from Mansfield.....
Glenn Hawker
Mick Martyn
Mick McGuane
Steven O'Reilly
groan.......
did they get easy chances? It was a typical stoppage arm wrestle and they got a bit fortunate in a contest IMHO.
That's the thing...
Every one of those players were decent footballers at their original clubs.
At Carlton they were shadows of their former selves. (Age, injury etc)
I could add a truckload of dregs to that list if you want. This should send a shudder down the spine:
Craig Davenport
Billy Smedts
Rhys Palmer
Sean Charles
Sam Cranage
David Gallagher
Andrew Eccles
Ricky Mott
Digby Morell
Daniel Harford
Troy Longmuir
Callum Chambers
Jason Saddington
Richard Hadley
Daniel Gorringe
Kristian Jaksch
Mark Whiley
Matthew Dick
Jarrod Pickett
Darcy Lang
Alex Fasolo
Sure all played more AFL games than me but not one worth the steam off my crap.
You forgot the Brizvegas guy that came the year Judd did, Richard Hadley ?
Nah he's there. Cam OShea was the one I forgot
Andrew Collins
Jason Tutt
Here's an interesting thought about Sunday's game.....
After all the tears and disappointment, the only actual outcome of the day's events was that St Kilda moved from Pick 5 in the draft to Pick 7.
So, as they say in the classics, who actually won?
They did. Shows we were the only crap truck team to tie their on field fortune to the draft and paid for it by breeding a culture of not winning.
Hads was a good player. Knees were shot.
You'd have to wonder whether the failure of those players mentioned was more development or recruiting.
I have believed for a long time that development coach/team is every bit as important as the match day stuff. Also, it is much easier to develop in a strong side with a good culture than in a weak one - better physical and mental support on match day, on the training track and just around the club.
I tend to think back in those days it was very poor recruiting (both at ND and Trade). We seemed to land players that no one else wanted. When I think of development, I tend to think of the kids or less experienced blokes. Some of the ones in the lists were experienced guys who were brought with a view for them to fill a role. They were either hacks or passed it. Just my view.
Alex Silvagni.
Alex at least filled a role and played some decent footy for us. His problem was he was a reluctant footballer and an even more reluctant inhabitant of Melbourne.
And injured.
Alex was fine, if for nothing else the cover he did on Buddy more than once!
At the time he gave us a harder edge we just did not have!
Not sure they lost on purpose. They were just crap.
Brock McLean says otherwise. As candidly as anyone has ever said it.
Thats why he left and came to us.
He didn't want any part of it.
Still got the Hadley/ Yarran polo top somewhere :(
we thought we were getting the hawthorn back pocket from the 80s....... just some miscommunication
:D :D
Direct swap for Shaun Grigg.....how many games did Grigg play for Richmond?? :o ::)
No we did really well, his grand father had played for Carlton!
That must have been important to our recruiters.....!!!! :) ;)
Correction per courtesy Blueseum
"A nephew of Carlton’s 1979 Premiership wingman Peter Francis, Andy Collins was traded to the Blues by Richmond in 2010, in exchange for disgruntled midfielder Shaun Grigg."
Played 11 games for us
cheers Ab
Grigg walked out on us and the tigers gleefully shafted us.
Indeed. I don't have any time for Shaun Grigg. He was pathetic for us, no guts at all.
I used to teach Andy Collins. He leans towards Richmond still, as his wife is a Tige.
we got them back when we traded them Yarran.
I wore my singlet @runners club last night 👍🏼