Carlton Supporters Club

Pittonet getting slaughtered in the air

Who the f$ck thought TDK as sub was a good idea?

How did that effect this game?

He's fit he plays.

The decision to not play Cincotta, Lord & Moir was extremely telling tonight.

POST GAME THREAD

The next step in our evolution is to be able to play more than half a season of winning footy. Whether the issues are psychological, physical, fitness, injury etc. I don't know. Voss is acutely aware that inconsistency is killing us.

The next step in our evolution is to be able to play more than half a season of winning footy. Whether the issues are psychological, physical, fitness, injury etc. I don't know. Voss is acutely aware that inconsistency is killing us.

Zorko just asked if he was surprised Cincotta wasn’t played and he laughed. They expected a run with and we didn’t bother.

Seriously MC  WTF did Cincotta do wrong to be DROPPED for this game, after being superb all season?

Embarrassing effort and clearly we had players who were unfit and should never have played and we should have kept some of the kids in the team who had earned their spots. A MC blunder and was a gamble we were never going to win and our fitness through the season has to be questioned and how we got to this position as does our list management which left us short of talls in key areas which cost us games and forced us into an elimination final interstate after being in second place.

Goaless 1st qtr, too many passengers (Durdin, Motlop, Kemp, Williams, Acres for 2 qtrs, TDK sub. EOS

You can't win a game at the selection table, but you can lose them.

The Sub had nothing to do with the 1st half, that debate is a smokescreen.

We were much better when we had both rucks on the ground.

The Sub had nothing to do with the 1st half, that debate is a smokescreen.

We were much better when we had both rucks on the ground.

Quote of the year !!

You NEVER pick a ruck as a sub.

Goaless 1st qtr, too many passengers (Durdin, Motlop, Kemp, Williams, Acres for 2 qtrs, TDK sub. EOS

Disgraceful overall performance. Time for much introspection and reflection. A lot of work needed to prepare for next year. I’ve just about had enough, at least for the time being.

The Sub, whoever is in the Sub seat, has no bearing on what happened in the first half for us tonight, and they have no bearing on the result before they get on the ground.

If the MC has something to explain, it's playing blokes who weren't fit, and persisting with blokes who have hardly touched it all season.

Still don't pick a ruck as a sub. Pick someone who can come on fresh that has some run. Like the damage Campbell did to GWS today when he come on.

The Sub, whoever is in the Sub seat, has no bearing on what happened in the first half for us tonight, and they have no bearing on the result before they get on the ground.

Im with you cookie. Its so hard to fail year after year after year when we have endured the longest rebuild known to mankind. We should have been contesting for the flag this year there is no stand out team it would have been a great year to strike but again when it matters we fall short. Sure injuries late in the year made it harder but serious teams dont drop the games we did when injuries werent an issue.

And to see teams like geelong and hawthorn still alive just makes it that much harder to accept.

Need some big gutsy changes if we are going to go further next year. The current list (injuries or not) wont take us deep into finals so be interesting to see what the club does to change things in the off season.

Some "experts" on here want to make the Sub about the rucks, they are sh1t talkers, they signalled this intent even before the first ball was bounced.

In that regard with TDK on the bench we basically went with the "experts" preferred option, one ruck and an extra Mids to run and link up, and had our arse handed to us to the tune of almost 10 goals!

Focussing on the Sub is a distraction, it's completely missing the point of what went wrong for the first 50 minutes.

Something else that has been on my mind ........

Who here considers an elimination final a "handicap event" ??

Because that's how our players approached it .............. if you have forgotten what the scoreline was late in the second quarter, it was 60-0 ............ yes, that's right, we gave the Lions a 10-goal headstart ...................... and it went on for so long that it appeared that our players weren't even affected or angry by that situation .......... it was a goodam cut-throat final FFS, where was the discipline, the fight & the will-to-win when the game was still there to be won.

60-0

60-0

60-0

And those guys get paid exorbitant amounts of money too !!

Some papers were stamped tonight, there will be causalities, or there should be.

The concern is too if we run with the same list we are probably going to be passed by a couple of other teams who will improve like Hawthorn have and we could be battling to make the eight.

He was made for Lachie Neale.....just another game we lost at the MC table.

It had already become a handicap event at team selection.

EB do you really think our list is that good that we flip a 60-0 start by changing one or 2 selections. I wish i agreed but we have more issues then MC selections imo. We fans seem to think our problems would be solved by a smarter coach better selection's etc however maybe the list has more holes then we think. We don't have the overall talent to challenge the best teams when it matters.
We fail year in year out mate. We just aren't good enough for long enough.

There is that but it is still a mind boggling decision.

^ acres, cerra - they’re such good players when they play well but when they don’t - and when acres does crap kicks it just kills us. Newman at times too
 just wasn’t reliable! Senior players need to be reliable! Not flashy but just do not kick it directly time and again to our disadvantage.

Don't let these imbeciles drag you into a stupid debate.

For the first quarter we hardly had the ball forward of centre, and at one stage it was 15 / 20 Lion's I50s to just 4 for us. It wouldn't matter if we had Charlie, Harry, Carey, Lockett and Dunstall inside F50!

As for blaming the 1st 50 minutes on the Sub selection, it's stupidity, the Sub could have been Judd, Dusty, Ablett, any fecker anybody likes, they had no bearing on the first 50 or so minutes of the game. And it made no difference if the Sub was a ruck, rover, utility, fullback or tagger.

Yep.

I fear we have missed our opportunity for a Cripps premiership 😔

Not all players can do all things - but for a start, clear out the injured players.
Enough.

And sorry but clear out players that cannot be trusted / I’m talking McG, Williams, Pittonent, even Cerra and maybe Acres.

Ye some of the best might win you a game. But consistently do not provide enough.

I thought after Thurs night I wouldnt see a worse finals showing, our first qtr and a bit was the worst performance I have ever seen. No pressure, no intensity, no desperations, its as disappointed as I have been watch us play. The game was done and dusted at qtr time, I could not believe what I was seeing.

We need just enough of a tweak to put pace, run and spread into the side.

Defeated before the first bounce.

Had we had a mixture of a few ins and the usuals in maybe we could see past the game, but I think those on the ground knew there wasn’t much left.

I don’t care for what why if or buts the reality is the conditioning fitness or any other reason the group capitulated after being second on the ladder was either extremely unlucky or extremely incompetent - not acceptable.

Code: [Select]

EB do you really think our list is that good that we flip a 60-0 start by changing one or 2 selections. I wish i agreed but we have more issues then MC selections imo. We fans seem to think our problems would be solved by a smarter coach better selection's etc however maybe the list has more holes then we think. We don't have the overall talent to challenge the best teams when it matters.
We fail year in year out mate. We just aren't good enough for long enough.

EB do you really think our list is that good that we flip a 60-0 start by changing one or 2 selections. I wish i agreed but we have more issues then MC selections imo. We fans seem to think our problems would be solved by a smarter coach better selection's etc however maybe the list has more holes then we think. We don't have the overall talent to challenge the best teams when it matters.
We fail year in year out mate. We just aren't good enough for long enough.

If you cant get yourself fired up for final and be ready to run through brick walls from the opening bounce, go and choose another occupation. Im being critical here but I was a little disappointed at the leadership in the first qtr. It needed someone (or two) to stand up and do something.

@laj we won plenty of footy in the 1st-half, and got clear possession, the problem isn't run.

Have a read of the post I made in the List Management (https://www.carltonsc.com/index.php?topic=6683.msg424199#msg424199) thread 5 hours before the game, then re-watch the first 40 to 50 minutes. Run had nothing to do with it, run hasn't been a big part of our problem all season, it's another smokescreen masking the real problems!

We burn the footy, when we win plenty of footy and are in the lead we burn the footy, when we are behind and fighting for possessions to get back in the game we burn the footy. It happens over and over again. We fight and win clear possession and the disposal goes to the opposition, watch the Lions by comparison, they win the footy and the first disposal goes to a target.

EB do you really think our list is that good that we flip a 60-0 start by changing one or 2 selections. I wish i agreed but we have more issues then MC selections imo. We fans seem to think our problems would be solved by a smarter coach better selection's etc however maybe the list has more holes then we think. We don't have the overall talent to challenge the best teams when it matters.
We fail year in year out mate. We just aren't good enough for long enough.

Lots of post match experts ranting on here but there’s not many of them who wouldn’t have selected the same team. We weren’t beating the Lions with the team that beat eagles or almost beat the saints.
So we rolled the dice and lost. They were runners up last year playing on their home ground with few injury worries. The first quarter and a half can sometimes happen in footy lots of teams have periods where they can’t get near it and it’s not for lack of effort. The players who came back were always going to struggle with the pace of a final but so were the kids with only two or three games in them. Give em 20 and they’ll be right.
 This was not our year that the gods smiled on us too many injuries at the wrong time. AGAIN. Glad we are getting a fresh approach in our fitness department, what worked 10 years ago for Russell might not be what’s required now.
Hindsight is always 20/20

Lots of post match experts ranting on here but there’s not many of them who wouldn’t have selected the same team. We weren’t beating the Lions with the team that beat eagles or almost beat the saints.

Lots of post match experts ranting on here but there’s not many of them who wouldn’t have selected the same team. We weren’t beating the Lions with the team that beat eagles or almost beat the saints.
So we rolled the dice and lost. They were runners up last year playing on their home ground with few injury worries. The first quarter and a half can sometimes happen in footy lots of teams have periods where they can’t get near it and it’s not for lack of effort. The players who came back were always going to struggle with the pace of a final but so were the kids with only two or three games in them. Give em 20 and they’ll be right.
 This was not our year that the gods smiled on us too many injuries at the wrong time. AGAIN. Glad we are getting a fresh approach in our fitness department, what worked 10 years ago for Russell might not be what’s required now.
Hindsight is always 20/20

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-finals-2024-carlton-blues-player-ratings-vs-brisbane-lions-from-first-elimination-final-patrick-cripps-sam-docherty-highlights-stats-best-and-worst-players/news-story/466ffeed2df7cb0d0b307fcfb86edf3f

Worst players...
Williams - 2
Durdin - 2
Motlop - 3
O. Hollands - 3
Kennedy - 3
Fantasia - 4
Cowan - 4
Cerra - 4
Kemp - 4
Saad - 4

4 small forwards and cerra was who I had an issue with pre-game.

5 of our worst 10 players were from that group including the worst 2.

I also had an issue with tdk starting as sub and said he shouldve started.
Tdk - 6
Pittonet - 6
Walsh - 6
Newman - 6
Weitering - 6
Acres - 7
Cripps - 8
Hewett - 8

'Post game experts' they say.


The loss is hard enough to take.
But when you can highlight the issues before the game (and I'm not alone in this) it makes it all that harder to take.

So lets take out the worst -Williams, Durdin, Motlop and Ollie Hollands.

Substitute them with Lord, Moir, Binns and Cincotta.

Do we win?

So lets take out the worst -Williams, Durdin, Motlop and Ollie Hollands.

Substitute them with Lord, Moir, Binns and Cincotta.

Do we win?

60 -0, hardly went forward. Blame the small forwards.
Really???

Pittonet, Cripps, Cerra and Walsh got their butts kicked in that time. That was the ball game.

Another bloke we simply have to move on from is Williams.  Voss won't drop this clown, who other than some kind of forward  role can't play on ball and is the worst defender in the AFL.  We dropped effective players to play this passenger - AGAIN.

After banishing the thought of a Pitto /  TDK combo halfway through the season, "the experts" want them in stone cold as a duo functioning in perfect harmony in a final.

My suggestion to fans, find some better "experts"!

After banishing the thought of a Pitto /  TDK combo halfway through the season, "the experts" want them in stone cold as a duo functioning in perfect harmony in a final.

My suggestion to fans, find some better "experts"!

Amazing he gets paid $800k pa.
4th highest behind Cripps, Walsh, Weiters

As I said pregame....
Cincotta kicks as many goals as our small forwards (when played forward, even defensively) but he can be played elsewhere as well.
Rotate him through the middle. Put him down back.
We lacked versatility from our small forwards and it hamstrung us.

.....Fact is, our system just does not develop players the way it should, so our young ones coming in are not prepared for senior footy.  Hence, we keep picking the same old names (even if they are carrying injuries) and wonder why yet another season has gone down the gurgler. 

We need a match committee that is prepared to try something different, and a reserves structure that gets the young ones ready. 

I watch the Hawthorn youngsters running around and their success stems from the fact that they were backed in by their coaching staff even when they were 0-5 at the start of the year, and they are now rolling on youthful enthusiasm.  We give our young ones 1 or 2 games, then drop them. 

Moir, Lord certainly deserved to be playing last night, and Cincotta being dropped was abysmal .  I can think of 6 or 7 players who got a game last night who let the jumper down in a huge way.

When you lose an elimination final by the 10-minute mark of the second quarter, big changes are needed.

Maybe our mistake wasn't so much not playing some of these youngsters last night....but not giving them more game time through the year.
The Hawthorn youngsters have been given lots of opportunities through the season...often against tougher opposition than  Lord (albeit only half a year) , Moir and Binns have experienced.

The Hawthorn mob are growing together and are ready to take on the challenge of finals.

Binns should really have a lot more than 3 games (one as sub) already.
Others like Lemmey should have at least been blooded.

The kids settled OK in the final couple of H&A games but finals are different.
We'll never know how they would have gone now, but it was probably as big a risk as playing underdone players...and the result may not have been much different.

No greater risk than taking out of form players into any game.

No.
But that's not what I would've done.

Keep hollands.

Choose any 2 smalls to go out.
I would've chosen durdin and fantasia to miss.

Tdk starts.
Moir is sub.

Cincotta comes in and cerra goes out.
Your last spot goes to either lord, carroll or binns. Probably Carroll but given he is likely to be going maybe go lord instead.

Ins: cincotta, moir lord/Carroll/binns
Outs: cerra, durdin, fantasia

We lose nothing from those changes but gain hope.

No greater risk than taking out of form players into any game.

Maybe our mistake wasn't so much not playing some of these youngsters last night....but not giving them more game time through the year.
…
The kids settled OK in the final couple of H&A games but finals are different.
We'll never know how they would have gone now, but it was probably as big a risk as playing underdone players...and the result may not have been much different.

So lets take out the worst -Williams, Durdin, Motlop and Ollie Hollands.

Substitute them with Lord, Moir, Binns and Cincotta.

Do we win?

60 -0, hardly went forward. Blame the small forwards.
Really???

Pittonet, Cripps, Cerra and Walsh got their butts kicked in that time. That was the ball game.

Do you really believe those changes would have made the difference in what was a smacking before our opposition clearly took the foot off our throat with nothing to gain. Its possible those changes see us lose by even more with the kids being scarred by a 15- 20 goal loss? Just because we will never know doesn't imply they are correct selections. The club needed to risk all to have any chance and when that fails of course you can argue what if they did this or that but the reality is we entered the finals in poor health and regardless who we picked as sub or at MC in this game we were cooked before the ball was bounced.

We need to be very active in the offseason and make a few ballsy decisions to improve on this year

Not if we start with the pissweak intensity we started with last night.

Would have made quite a difference  win or lose. Some pace and run from blokes 100% fit would not have seen a 60 to nil start. We had blokes underdone and half fit that, for that reason, couldn't get into the game when it was hot. Fit blokes make a big difference. You have been following footy long enough to know that, surely.

Not if we start with the pissweak intensity we started with last night.

A few different blokes might have a different intensity, win or lose. At least they'd be fit enough to compete when the game was hot. Would not have been a 60-0 start.

There's a few on here who defended the team selection and still trying too. Hate to say it, it was a huge error. Hawthorn showed what youngsters can do in a final.

So lets take out the worst -Williams, Durdin, Motlop and Ollie Hollands.

Substitute them with Lord, Moir, Binns and Cincotta.

Do we win?

Maybe our mistake wasn't so much not playing some of these youngsters last night....but not giving them more game time through the year.
The Hawthorn youngsters have been given lots of opportunities through the season...often against tougher opposition than  Lord (albeit only half a year) , Moir and Binns have experienced.

The Hawthorn mob are growing together and are ready to take on the challenge of finals.

Binns should really have a lot more than 3 games (one as sub) already.
Others like Lemmey should have at least been blooded.

The kids settled OK in the final couple of H&A games but finals are different.
We'll never know how they would have gone now, but it was probably as big a risk as playing underdone players...and the result may not have been much different.

Do you really believe those changes would have made the difference in what was a smacking before our opposition clearly took the foot off our throat with nothing to gain. Its possible those changes see us lose by even more with the kids being scarred by a 15- 20 goal loss? Just because we will never know doesn't imply they are correct selections. The club needed to risk all to have any chance and when that fails of course you can argue what if they did this or that but the reality is we entered the finals in poor health and regardless who we picked as sub or at MC in this game we were cooked before the ball was bounced.

We need to be very active in the offseason and make a few ballsy decisions to improve on this year

Walsh was on the boundary line in the latter stages of the match.

You are identifying an effect not a cause.

Focus on the reason why Walsh had almost 10km up 5 min into the 3rd-Qtr, that's a whole game of running for most players, and why Zorko was top of the pops in the first half.

If every man and his dog can see it before it happens then perhaps it's worth looking into.

No it's a decision made at one moment.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Wear the contact, take it out of bounds.

The assertion people saw this coming is bullsh1t, nobody saw the once in a 50 year event coming, we were 180 seconds away from something that's never happened before in the history of VFL/AFL and nobody predicted it.

I thought that we would get smashed.

The assertion people saw this coming is bullsh1t, nobody saw the once in a 50 year event coming, we were 180 seconds away from something that's never happened before in the history of VFL/AFL and nobody predicted it.

Nobody, not a single soul, predicted we would be about 180s from half-time and scoreless.

In hindsight, we might have been better off remaining scoreless to halftime, at least that record might expose some reality.

What else did Nobody predict. He's a smart guy

I’m in agreement with LP about the turnovers particularly in the first 1/2.
We got the ball under pressure usually and bombed it… where it was picked off and controlled, as opposed to them bombing it back.
We needed to get a short kick to a target in blue instead we bombed to maroon and blue !
Make no mistake, they were waiting for our bombs and were ready to offer the short lead to allow them to control the ball.

I'd like to get some angry pills into some of our boys. They seem to play without them and I think we could use some.

I may have missed a comment in this thread however one player who seems to have escaped scrutiny is Elijah Hollands.

He’s been ok over the H&A rounds, however he is painfully slow across the ground and often takes too long to dispose of the ball. And, when the heat was on in the first half he was miles off the pace - I’m not convinced at all.

He’s also yet another player that just doesn’t present like an AFL footballer who has done the work in the gym - you can also add Fantasia, Oliver Hollands, Young and to a lesser extent McGovern & Newman to that list.

The new fitness bloke from the swans is going to have a laugh when he sees our crew.

I’m not as firm as you in wanting everyone to have a Kouta build but E Hollands seems to have too many abs for mine…
I was watching last night thinking that O Hollands is filling out well, he’s a young running machine who you don’t want bulking up too quickly, I’m happy with him.

How important is it to have your VFL side playing into September. There were no proper match practice opportunities to our long list of returning players, a number who would have been able to have a run during the bye.

Also, if there were doubts about TDK over 120 minutes, why not start off with him, see how far he can go, then bring Pitt on when the game has slowed done??

Thought Ollie was poor early and a liability, he did better later in the game down back but we need him doing better to hold his place moving forward. He gives effort for sure and is a likeable kid but the wings have become a important position like they were decades ago where teams play through and we need A grade players to match up on the opposition.

Ollie has a decent kick on him and has some toe - needs to play in back half like Max Holmes does.

He reminds me a bit of Kade Simpson. Runs all day. Puts his body on the line. Does the team things.

Simpson had donuts for his first 3 games, Ollie has him covered at the same stage.

Need him getting more than 10 possies and sticking to his man better, good trier etc but we need to win the wings well and get some run through there.

Of course, but he is still new/young.

Kade didn't get a touch in year 1.
In year 2 he played another 3 games and got a total of 12 touches.
In year 3 he played 15 games, but averaged just 11 touches.
Year 4 he played 22 games and averaged 19.

.....and managed 300 games after that.

So don't write him off yet.

We're probably all a bit perplexed about the Kennedy sub-out.

Why Kennedy and not someone else?
I offered the suggestion before about him being a bit exhausted from what must have been a pretty emotional couple of days with both finals and baby on the way.

But maybe it was something else.
Voss was at pains in the press conference to say they had a plan for Zorko..."But we didn't execute it"
Early on was Kennedy matched up on Zorko?

Everyone predicted us to lose, no one predicted Port to get smashed.

Our lack of some real small forward talent stood out for me. Nowhere near enough real F50 pressure. Our present crop are low contributors in terms of ball winning and goal kicking imo. We need better urgently.

I the other finals games had small fwds doing damage, ours were a liability.

Seriously don't think Moir will be out of the side much next year

Cool story, Moir has a lot of work to do first.

Yep fell into the team due to lack of numbers and didnt really earn it.
Did show a bit though and the talent is there we just need to see some consistency..

Yep fell into the team due to lack of numbers and didnt really earn it.
Did show a bit though and the talent is there we just need to see some consistency..

Thought it might have been the best game from Lewis Young - or was it just that most of the rest were very poor?

EB do you really think our list is that good that we flip a 60-0 start by changing one or 2 selections. I wish i agreed but we have more issues then MC selections imo. We fans seem to think our problems would be solved by a smarter coach better selection's etc however maybe the list has more holes then we think. We don't have the overall talent to challenge the best teams when it matters.
We fail year in year out mate. We just aren't good enough for long enough.

Thought it might have been the best game from Lewis Young - or was it just that most of the rest were very poor?

With a full list and everything going right in regard to form and injury we are a chance to beat Brisbane at Brisbane.      The side that lost to St.Kilda would never have stood a chance.   We rolled the dice on a hail Mary but in all reality, it was never going to happen.

Cool story, Moir has a lot of work to do first.

I think we could have put up a better effort Shawny with better planning and selection, we were never going to win imho and I totally agree we need more talent but there is no use having extreme talent if your MC and coaching staff are not able to get the basics right which are a picking a fit team and having the majority of them in the right positions.
I want a reset of the list and a cull of players who are not going to take us any further and we need an injection of fresh players to rebuild depth in our weak areas which we all know about.

If you cant get yourself fired up for final and be ready to run through brick walls from the opening bounce, go and choose another occupation.

@Lods
I dont agree that the result flattered us, I think we merely fought back. It happens, we could not have possibly played any worse than the first 55 min. I would flip it and say the 60-0 start flattered them. We were truly abhorrent for that first 55 mins. As soon as  we started (albeit too late) applying some pressure and playing contested footy, they started filling their shorts.

Playing Durdin, Motlop and Fantasia was a clear mistake given the lack of output from the first two in that trio in recent weeks.

Those 3 are stocking fillers at best,  and should only be in the team if injuries force them to be used.   Durdin and Motlop both need to be moved on asap (together with all the other dead wood and perpetually injured on this list that should be moved on,  but will get new contracts, to heap more misery on supporters for another year or two plus)

I think a fit Durdin has promise, but Fantasia is past it (we did get him cheap though, was worth a shot) and Motlop continues to underwhelm.

Does anyone think that Voss is part of the problem?

Does anyone think that Voss is part of the problem?

His and the MC's team selection was a massive part of the problem.

Does anyone think that Voss is part of the problem?

Agree, tactically not great either but thats also his assistants responsibility too and Id expect a couple of changes in that area.

I think we first need to figure out if in fact there is a problem that relates to personal incompetence (as opposed to simple bad luck with injuries etc.) and we then need to figure out which individual is responsible. And that's not possible for us on the outside. I know on social media everybody knows exactly what the problems are, where they lie, and how to fix them, but in the real world.....

We have tried more senior coaches than pretty much any other club in recent years. It doesn't work. And no, it's not because "we keep picking the wrong bloke."

Under Voss we have played more consistent good footy, and if nothing else, Cripps, Weitering and Walsh have IMO clearly benefited from him as coach, all going to another level under his tutelage.

While I agree with that Paul, as Daisy Thomas pointed out, our arousal level was far too low at the start of the game.  That’s largely a collective coaching responsibility but with Vossy bearing the lion’s share (oops!).  The leadership group also has to take some of the blame.

I’m always impressed by Vossy’s calm demeanour, but perhaps he was too calm and needed to rev the boys up a tad more.  He does seem to learn from his mistakes and I don’t expect to see low arousal levels again.

I don’t buy the criticism of Vossy’s game day coaching.  He’s as good as the next coach and his planning and preparation is very good.  Injuries, and the lack of depth those injuries exposed, screwed our season.

Ill say there were reasons why they did what they did which we aren't privy to. They took risks that didnt come off.

Like any big business when you do that though you have to wear the incoming and admit your mistakes. It's been a wasted year due to injury etc but to rock up in a elimination final and give nothing for half a game isn't going to be tolerated that's not injury etc that's players and coaches not up for the fight and it was down right embarrassing and revisiting the dark days.

100%, the gamble was that if we won, the returning players had a game under their belt.

While I agree with that Paul, as Daisy Thomas pointed out, our arousal level was far too low at the start of the game.  That’s largely a collective coaching responsibility but with Vossy bearing the lion’s share (oops!).  The leadership group also has to take some of the blame.

I’m always impressed by Vossy’s calm demeanour, but perhaps he was too calm and needed to rev the boys up a tad more.  He does seem to learn from his mistakes and I don’t expect to see low arousal levels again.

I don’t buy the criticism of Vossy’s game day coaching.  He’s as good as the next coach and his planning and preparation is very good.  Injuries, and the lack of depth those injuries exposed, screwed our season.

It seems to me that we have lost too many games where we are well in front and lose.
Last year's final against Brisbane, Swans this year, Giants & Bulldogs.
No plan B when the opposition have us worked out!!!
This game we were worked out before the bounce and again had no answer!!!

I mean, that's not quite right. We won the 2nd half quite convincingly, on the back of a few things, which included adjustments and changes made by the coaches. It was of course too little too late, but there was a Plan B and it worked.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-finals-2024-carlton-blues-player-ratings-vs-brisbane-lions-from-first-elimination-final-patrick-cripps-sam-docherty-highlights-stats-best-and-worst-players/news-story/466ffeed2df7cb0d0b307fcfb86edf3f

Worst players...
Williams - 2
Durdin - 2
Motlop - 3
O. Hollands - 3
Kennedy - 3
Fantasia - 4
Cowan - 4
Cerra - 4
Kemp - 4
Saad - 4

4 small forwards and cerra was who I had an issue with pre-game.

5 of our worst 10 players were from that group including the worst 2.

I also had an issue with tdk starting as sub and said he shouldve started.
Tdk - 6
Pittonet - 6
Walsh - 6
Newman - 6
Weitering - 6
Acres - 7
Cripps - 8
Hewett - 8

'Post game experts' they say.


The loss is hard enough to take.
But when you can highlight the issues before the game (and I'm not alone in this) it makes it all that harder to take.

I mean, that's not quite right. We won the 2nd half quite convincingly, on the back of a few things, which included adjustments and changes made by the coaches. It was of course too little too late, but there was a Plan B and it worked.

Not sure who Jack Jovanovski is - but that read as though a Pies or Dons supporter wrote it.   Managed to stick the boots into EVERY player and seemed to enjoy it.  I know we were woeful, but FOX probably shouldnt have a work experieince kid, with a skinful, writing the player reviews

The cue was in the rack in the 2nd half, lets be honest about it. Even Fagan said, we were nover going to win that game.

All I know is, there may be plenty of excuses, but we have to find an answer for those excuses......

Get tough and do it!   FFS, if McGovern kicked the goal after the siren and we'd held on against the Saints, we would have been playing Port Adelaide in the Qualifying final.

We need to find the ruthless edge again - for me, we play too nice......

The last couple of junk time goals yes I agree. But not before that IMO.

Nathan Buckley has just slammed the tactic of playing E Hollands behind the ball early and leaving us one short down forward fuelling Zorko. Doesnt buy the injury excuse given the poor effort.
The Kennedy sub fiasco, selecting unfit players etc....I like Voss the man but his tactics are questionable and he is in charge and ultimately responsible.

https://www.afl.com.au/video/1217228/aaa-worrying-vision-exposes-skipper-confusing-blues-call?videoId=1217228&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1725843945001

For those interested, Matthew Lloyd's comments - a little on the game, selections and list. From about the 13m mark.

The cue was in the rack in the 2nd half, lets be honest about it. Even Fagan said, we were nover going to win that game.

Curnow - Champion, best forward in the AFL
Owies - Best small forward
Boyd - Was our designated kicker earlier this year.
Fogarty - Pressure
Cincotta - Pressure

Agreed with some of the SF commentary.

Don't agree with the Midfield comments, Lloyd said the mix isn't quite right, and he stated the same about the Dogs, who with us are basically one of the most dominant Midfields in the AFL competition for the bulk of this season.

It's interesting listening to various media today, banging on about our SFs and the Sub selection, neither of which had any bearing on the first 50 minutes of the game. It's low brow cheap click bait made for ratings, fed from the vitriol being spread by silly fans and trolls on social media.

The mainstream media are supposed to report from an expert base, not just behave as an echo chamber for nuffies!

Sorry, Spotted One, as many notable footy commentators noted, we're too one paced in the midfield and lack dynamic spread. Hopefully they realise that Cinc is a mid with genuine foot speed and should spend the preseason training as such. Point is, we might be very good, but we can be much better... and need to be.

Nafan can slam all he likes, he doesn't know the tactical reasoning for it, only the coaching team does. Again, things were done that seem/ed poor but there was logic behind them at the time, they didnt work.

Saad has been pretty ordinary this year and it might be time to start grooming a replacement. 

We need to find ways to free him up.   Too often someone like Ben Keays drags him to the goal line and we don't have an answer.

I'm sorry...
I just cant see it.
Do folks really think the addition of Binns, Lord and Moir would have made a difference to that start?
We were being thrashed in the midfield.
Our 'elite' midfielders were getting soundly beaten.
Would our youngsters like Binns and Lord fared better than a Cripps, Walsh, Hewett
Our pressure and attack on the ball and opposition players was miles off...from our better players.

The only change that would possibly have made a bit of difference was if we'd had DeKoning starting earlier.
Our maligned small forwards were ineffectual because the ball didn't get down there until just before half-time

Binns, Lord and Moir were in the games against West Coast (where we just fell over the line) and St Kilda (where we just didn't)
So how can it possibly be argued they'd have made a difference in a finals match against Brisbane in Brisbane.
They would probably have struggled to match their efforts of the preceeding weeks and we'd have been criticised for throwing them to the wolves.

The argument was.... we had a few returning experienced players who we could mix them in with,
A mix of youth and experienced returning players....as long as they're all fit, was the best selection according to popular theory.

Who?
The two returnees who had most impact were McKay (9 touches) and DeKoning (deemed "not guaranteed to play an entire game".)
We got seduced and excited about a few kids.
It was good experience for them to play the last couple of games
They look like being solid players.
A bit of finals experience may have been good, but that would be the reason to pick them....not because they were ever going to make a difference.

We lost it because the injuries left too many of our players short of a gallop.
And our pressure was miles off our best.

I'm sorry...
I just cant see it.
Do folks really think the addition of Binns, Lord and Moir would have made a difference to that start?
We were being thrashed in the midfield.
Our 'elite' midfielders were getting soundly beaten.
Would our youngsters like Binns and Lord fared better than a Cripps, Walsh, Hewett
Our pressure and attack on the ball and opposition players was miles off...from our better players.

...

We lost it because the injuries left too many of our players short of a gallop.
And our pressure was miles off our best.

I'm sorry...
I just cant see it.
Do folks really think the addition of Binns, Lord and Moir would have made a difference to that start?
We were being thrashed in the midfield.
Our 'elite' midfielders were getting soundly beaten.
Would our youngsters like Binns and Lord fared better than a Cripps, Walsh, Hewett
Our pressure and attack on the ball and opposition players was miles off...from our better players.

The only change that would possibly have made a bit of difference was if we'd had DeKoning starting earlier.
Our maligned small forwards were ineffectual because the ball didn't get down there until just before half-time

Binns, Lord and Moir were in the games against West Coast (where we just fell over the line) and St Kilda (where we just didn't)
So how can it possibly be argued they'd have made a difference in a finals match against Brisbane in Brisbane.
They would probably have struggled to match their efforts of the preceeding weeks and we'd have been criticised for throwing them to the wolves.

The argument was.... we had a few returning experienced players who we could mix them in with,
A mix of youth and experienced returning players....as long as they're all fit, was the best selection according to popular theory.

Who?
The two returnees who had most impact were McKay (9 touches) and DeKoning (deemed "not guaranteed to play an entire game".)
We got seduced and excited about a few kids.
It was good experience for them to play the last couple of games
They look like being solid players.
A bit of finals experience may have been good, but that would be the reason to pick them....not because they were ever going to make a difference.

We lost it because the injuries left too many of our players short of a gallop.
And our pressure was miles off our best.

Does anyone think that Voss is part of the problem?

My only issue with bringing on Vossy as coach was i was afraid he would do the same thing he did at Brisbane.
That is, try for a quick fix, bring in players who perhaps he shouldn't (Fev!) and set the club back as a result.

Not quite the same standard, but bringing in Fantasia was a bit of a worry and a warning sign of perhaps the same thing. But in fairness, every coach seems to get 'one'.

However, since then he and his MC have got me stuffed with their selections. Yes, the continued inclusion of Fantasia is one that sticks out, but its not limited to that.
There are plenty of players that seem to just 'play' regardless of fitness and form. Cerra stands out as an example.
There are players who will be picked to play regardless of how injured and ineffective they are. Charlie playe about 5 games more than he should.....and we got ZERO return from that.

We were a game and a half clear in 2nd position with a huge injury list (and growing) and an easier draw towards the end of the season. Instead of resting players, he ran them into the ground and compounded the problem.

Our last 10 games, we won just 3. Those 3 were the teams that finished in the bottom 3 this year.
IMO, that was mainly due to picking the wrong players at the wrong time.

Cerra was a very questionable selection Lods, short of a gallop, horribly out of form all season and single position player.  Not an intelligent selection.

Cerra was a very questionable selection Lods, short of a gallop, horribly out of form all season and single position player.  Not an intelligent selection.

How many hammies has he done Prof?...ridiculous selection when we had Lord or Binns fit and ready to go...

I can't recall seeing Cerra look right all season, he's been a shadow of himself.

How many hammies has he done Prof?...ridiculous selection when we had Lord or Binns fit and ready to go...

I can't recall seeing Cerra look right all season, he's been a shadow of himself.

I can't recall seeing Cerra look right all season, he's been a shadow of himself.

I'm sorry...
I just cant see it.
Do folks really think the addition of Binns, Lord and Moir would have made a difference to that start?
We were being thrashed in the midfield.
Our 'elite' midfielders were getting soundly beaten.
Would our youngsters like Binns and Lord fared better than a Cripps, Walsh, Hewett
Our pressure and attack on the ball and opposition players was miles off...from our better players.

The only change that would possibly have made a bit of difference was if we'd had DeKoning starting earlier.
Our maligned small forwards were ineffectual because the ball didn't get down there until just before half-time

Binns, Lord and Moir were in the games against West Coast (where we just fell over the line) and St Kilda (where we just didn't)
So how can it possibly be argued they'd have made a difference in a finals match against Brisbane in Brisbane.
They would probably have struggled to match their efforts of the preceeding weeks and we'd have been criticised for throwing them to the wolves.

The argument was.... we had a few returning experienced players who we could mix them in with,
A mix of youth and experienced returning players....as long as they're all fit, was the best selection according to popular theory.

Who?
The two returnees who had most impact were McKay (9 touches) and DeKoning (deemed "not guaranteed to play an entire game".)
We got seduced and excited about a few kids.
It was good experience for them to play the last couple of games
They look like being solid players.
A bit of finals experience may have been good, but that would be the reason to pick them....not because they were ever going to make a difference.

We lost it because the injuries left too many of our players short of a gallop.
And our pressure was miles off our best.

yes but in the first half we went inside fifty 24 times according to the stats.  It came straight out.  That's who we kicked it to and the forwards not getting busy enough. 

16 scoring shots from 56 Inside 50's is a terrible return. Just a dirty night all round.

Yep
That's an example where stats tell only half a story.
The ball went in and came straight back out.
They controlled the air and delivery inside 50 was poor.
On the ground it broke down around half-forward so a lot of those entries were shallow and they were able to mount attacks.

A lot of that is not due to anything other than a lack of defensive pressure in the forward line and that's why the scoreline ended up 60-0

I'd love to know the I50 count for both sides in the first 56 mins.

yes but in the first half we went inside fifty 24 times according to the stats.  It came straight out.  That's who we kicked it to and the forwards not getting busy enough.

So I watched the first half up to our first goal
qtr time
Bris 19 I50s to Carl 8
Bris 5.5.35 to Carl 0.0.0
at the first Carl goal by Cripps
Bris 29 I50s to Carl 20
Bris 9.6.60 to Carl 1.0.6
It was hard to watch but I just wanted to know

👏👏👏👏
And just on players returning from injury, look at Papley's stats, 2 goals, 4 scores assists in the last qtr, elite.
If you want it enough you'll get, they (the midfield especially early) just didn't want it.

Inside 50's ended up even 56-56
Don't go back and torture yourself again :D  but

An interesting one or two from that 60-0 time would be ...
How many times in that period the ball entering our 50 was marked by a Brisbane player.
How many times first contact from our inside 50 was a Brisbane player who then saw it out of the 50

Inside 50s mean nothing if the ball comes back out faster than it went in.......

Our biggest weakness is getting caught on the slingshot, and it happens more times than I care to remember.

The level of F50 pressure is pathetic - only Fogarty and sometimes Owies actually give anything in this area.  The rest trot around and admire the opposition defenders' rebounding skills.  The defensive unit must be pulling their hair out when they see that.

Inside 50s mean nothing if the ball comes back out faster than it went in.......

That’s all well and good but if you’re a forward and the ball is delivered NOT to your advantage but to your DISADVANTAGE then you are out of position and cannot impact the contest…
That’s why intercept marks hurt so much

All I know is, there may be plenty of excuses, but we have to find an answer for those excuses......

Get tough and do it!   FFS, if McGovern kicked the goal after the siren and we'd held on against the Saints, we would have been playing Port Adelaide in the Qualifying final.

We need to find the ruthless edge again - for me, we play too nice......

I50 is a deceptive stat, it can mean barely a step inside the arc on the boundary line or in the corridor at the top of the goalsquare.

Finally got through the replay. Took me three attempts. It was pretty ugly viewing. Just a few observations.
1. Cincotta should have played. We were one defender short and Cowan struggled. I think Cowan would have been better if he was the seventh defender. Another pre-season will see him improve.
2. Absolutely no run and carry in the first quarter and twenty minutes. When Carlton is struggling we go into our shells and we don't take on the game. Handball receives should be a kpi next season.
3. Not sure why everyone has been down on O.Hollands. He was serviceable in the first half and he shut down Zorko in the second. wasn't great but he was okay.
4. TDK should have started.
5. Initially I thought Cerra should not have played as I think he disrupted the midfield. However he did get better as the game went on. He needs to define role for himself.
6. William should not have played and Carrol should have been the sub.
7. Pittonet took a couple of marks and it makes him a better player. Needs to develop his marking.
8. If Carlton players are upset by the sledging and the trash talking of opposition players then don't be five goals down. If you are five goals up you won't hear a word from these clowns.
9. Hopefully with a new fitness guru we might be able to get a bit of continuity with the team.
10. Binns, Lord, Wilson, Lemmey and Moir all need to be given plenty of opportunities next year.
11. Docherty is a marvel.

That goes for De Koning too.  The club was concerned that he couldn't run out the game and that proved to be too conservative. 

Inside 50's ended up even 56-56
Don't go back and torture yourself again :D  but

An interesting one or two from that 60-0 time would be ...
How many times in that period the ball entering our 50 was marked by a Brisbane player.
How many times first contact from our inside 50 was a Brisbane player who then saw it out of the 50

Inside 50s mean nothing if the ball comes back out faster than it went in.......

Our biggest weakness is getting caught on the slingshot, and it happens more times than I care to remember.

The level of F50 pressure is pathetic - only Fogarty and sometimes Owies actually give anything in this area.  The rest trot around and admire the opposition defenders' rebounding skills.  The defensive unit must be pulling their hair out when they see that.

How do you arrive at one defender short?  Our defensive rotation was Weitering, Young, McGovern, Cowan, Newman, Docherty and Saad and I'm sure Williams also spent time in defence.  I do think that Cincotta should have played, but in place of Kennedy who had no energy and hardly got out of a jog ... but that's with the benefit of hindsight.

That goes for De Koning too.  The club was concerned that he couldn't run out the game and that proved to be too conservative.  He would have had a crack from the opening bounce and that could have made a difference.

Docherty is a marvel but he was as rusty as all get out and probably shouldn't have played.  Again, Cincotta would have been a better bet.

Docherty is a midfielder and Williams plays as a forward. They actually used O.Hollands down back

We used a forward down back most of the game.
Elijah Hollands had a go there as well.

Not really, we don't know if they were right or wrong because, TDK only came on after 40 minutes and still only played 50% of game time in total. So after the first 40 minutes on the bench, he spent about another 20 minutes on the bench during the rest of the game.

Q1   I50   Acres kicks a grubber, TO straigh back out. First I50 in 8 min

Played behind the ball and left us a man short in our forward line allowing Brisbane some easy exits ie Zorko in particular.
Dumb move imo..

It wasn't funny at the time but the commentator said that Acres lowered his eyes.  They must have been around his ankles  ::)

Off topic a bit -
I’ve actually noticed this finals series that the umpires are now calling the game correctly, and in line with supporters and communities expectation.
So it’s interesting that they actually do know how to call the game.

Apart from Harrys mark which they didn't pay.

Line ball, K.

Line ball? Replay showed he was 100% under it without a doubt.

Memo to umps: If you are unsure, look at what the opposition player does. If they stop and stand the mark, its a mark. If they try and jump on the player, it hit the ground first.

But didn't control it enough. K, I'm with you, I agree... but I'm looking at it from the umps POV.

But, really, in the totality of it all, it's a non issue. Ultimately, it would not have mattered whether that mark was paid and he goaled. We were an embarrassment. Confused and bereft of spirit.

Docherty is a midfielder and Williams plays as a forward. They actually used O.Hollands down back

Overall it didn't matter, but it was when we had all the momentum and would've continued that. Instead it halted it.

Not sure how you can say he didn't control it.
It never hit the ground. Nobody else touched it. Its a mark.

Yes, that was a very poor decision.  The umpire guessed that Harry hadn’t taken it cleanly and that is bad umpiring.

Harry probably should have been paid another mark earlier in the game.  He held it until a late spoil and they’re usually paid.

Not that it would have changed the result … but you never know 🤔

Apart from Harrys mark which they didn't pay.

Off topic a bit -
I’ve actually noticed this finals series that the umpires are now calling the game correctly, and in line with supporters and communities expectation.
So it’s interesting that they actually do know how to call the game.

Overall it didn't matter, but it was when we had all the momentum and would've continued that. Instead it halted it.

Not sure how you can say he didn't control it.
It never hit the ground. Nobody else touched it. Its a mark.

To suggest that had that mark been paid we would have continued with the momentum and possibly won the game, is just too much of a stretch for me. You might be right, we'll never know. But it sure did look like Brisvegas were by far the better side.

Here are my notes from the I50 I counted (by I50 I mean every time the ball cross the 50m line in our fwd half)
Q1   I50   Pitto spilled mark
Q1   I50   Kemp kick in to Big O who Int marks
Q1   I50   Cripps kick in to Big O who Int marks
Q1   I50   Acres kicks a grubber, TO straigh back out. First I50 in 8 min
Q1   I50   Kennedy kick in, H drops the mark,  Williams gathers from Cripps, snaps across the face OOB
Q1   I50   Cripps kicks in,  gathered and cleared by Bris def
Q1   I50   Hewett kicks in, Motlop fumbles, Wiliams to H who is  tackled drops ball, Bris clear
Q1   I50   Acres kicks in, Andrews intercepts and 50m pen
   Qtr time   0.0.0
Q2   I50   Gov kicks in, Hewett gathers snaps short intercepted
Q2   I50   Acres to H, drops the mark, Kemp gathers
Q2   I50   Hewett I50 Walsh, H and Kennedy get in each others way, Kennedy marks gives to H who snaps ootf misses by 20m
Q2   I50   Hew I50 kemp gathers snaps acrros the face  ootf
Q2   I50   Cowan kicks in, 35 for Bris interecpts ( H out pointed)
Q2   I50   Acres from a passageof play  I50, kicks over the head of Williams and goes OOB.Throw in, Pitto fumbes Bris take it away
Q2   I50   Lij I50 from a stoppage,  H flies drops the mark, Zorko gathers and clears to Bris player
Q2   I50   Acres from a free for a trip I50, punched down to ground, Bris gathers and clears
Q2   I50   From a Cent Clear, Doc gathers, kicks I50 looking for Durdin, Z\orko intercepts
Q2   I50   Cerra i50 from the stoppage, Fantasia runs on, Zorko clears out
Q2   I50   Cripps free kick on the wing, kicks I50, comes straight out again
Q2   I50   Williams kicks i50 to 2 Bris defenders, ball spills, Durdin gathers, gives to Cripps for a goal
    3m51s to go in the 2nd qtr   1.0.6

…

If you look at how each player covers the ground it tells a different story.

…

This is according to the heat maps.  So what happened?

Heat maps show where players had disposals, not where they were running.

In fact, 90% of Motlop’s disposals were in defence, 40% of Fantasia’s were in defence and all four of Durdin’s disposals were in the forward line.  You’d have to look at the GPS data to see how much time they spent in attack and defence.

Putting that to one side, your point about them having different roles is correct.  Fantasia generally has the link up role that Cottrell does so well and he had a defensive role on Zorko for some time.  Motlop usually gets back in defence but Durdin rarely goes beyond the wing.

I don’t know if the distance covered stats are published anywhere but I suspect that they would show considerable variation.

Agree. You have to know exactly what a player’s role is in order to make criticism of how well he’s performing it. Skills execution is obvious on the other hand.

For me it was Motlops fumbles that struck a cord with me.

Yep and he seemed to get caught with the ball a lot.

At least Motlop gets the ball to fumble it, Durdin keeps his clangars to a minimum by not getting the ball ...

And yet I have a little more faith in Durdin than Motlop but that's not saying much as their bars arent high.

I'd be looking at moving on from all our small forwards bar Owies...but they are contracted and no one will trade for them..

Agreed but ironically it may be Owies that goes.

Agreed but ironically it may be Owies that goes.

as he has currency.

And yet I have a little more faith in Durdin than Motlop but that's not saying much as their bars arent high.

Yep
Reading around there are quite a few clubs interested.
Personally I'd rather keep him
But the club may be looking at his age compared to Motlop and Durdin and choose to move him on.
I think his value might not be in a swap for a pick ...but rather bundled with a pick for a player of need.

Yep
Reading around there are quite a few clubs interested.
Personally I'd rather keep him
But the club may be looking at his age compared to Motlop and Durdin and choose to move him on.
I think his value might not be in a swap for a pick ...but rather bundled with a pick for a player of need.

Remember though, Motlop spent the year injured and didn't play until round 19 this year due to injury. Not a hope he was doing well.

Fair bit of TOG (%P)
Rd     KI     MK  HB     DI     GL     BH     TK     RB     IF     CL     CG     1%   BO     GA     %P 
20     4       1      2      6        3                  2       2      1                  1                                       67
21     3       2      4      7         1                   3               2                                                  1      80
22     6       4      3      9                   1                         2                2                                2      74
23     7       4      3      10                 1         1       3        1       2       5        2                           90
24     2                6      8        1                  3                  1      1          3         1                         69
25     2                2      4        1         1       2                           1        2                                   77
EF     6       4      4      10                  1       4         1              1          3                                    85

I like owies but he's no Eddie betts.  I know once bitten twice shy, but his 2023 was actually better than his 2024.  Kicked 27 goals off 18 games rather than 33 off 23. 

Good read, City of Churches (AB).

To a person, every Bluebagger I know is at least perplexed and deeply disappointed through to still hurting and even angry.
And that anger is due to most of us knowing those changes at selection last week were problematic, even silly.

I may be the odd man out then.
I'm disappointed, but not perplexed.
Certainly not angry....not even hurting.

It was what it was.
Once the injuries hit us our season virtually ended.
Folks will say we were off before that, but we were sitting in second having crushed Geelong and were being talked up as premiership favourites.
It wasn't just injuries that had players missing games, but the fact that players were forced to play with injuries and the cumulative effect of that meant the season would finish pretty much as it did.

Do folks think that if Binns, Lord, Moir and Cincotta had played we would have won.
We couldn't beat St Kilda with those 4 playing and Cincotta who seemed an obvious matchup for someone like Zorko was dropped. So obviously it was considered that he had gone off the boil from the shut-down roles he'd performed in previous weeks.
At best it might have made a slight difference to the start.
Some might say we came back and they started to panic.
There was an element of that, but we were never going to win.
They eased off and then had to comeback and seal the game...which they did.
Brisbane had the game won and were looking to next week.
Our last three goals were junk time goals.
Two to Pittonet says it all.

But if TDK had played all the game???
We were at the point where it was considered that he was a major weapon but the doubt was on the ability to see out the game.
If we're going to count out players because there is a doubt over their fitness and ability to see out the game as some have argued....then surely he doesn't play at all.
That wouldn't have gone well.
The fact is we had no idea how long he would last, or how he would perform after a lay-off.
That he did well is a credit to him, and the sooner we get him on a long term deal the better.

So... not angry.
Not hurting
A bit disappointed.
That's all a bit of a waste of time...what's done is done
Moved on already...but maybe hoping and expecting some changes around the caoching structure and football department.
Looking forward to the trade and draft periods and a more settled side in 2025....because time is running out for this group, and major changes will take us back a few squares.

You’re not the odd man out Lods.

While I may disagree with some decisions Vossy, the MC or Nick Austin may make, I accept that they are informed decisions made by folk who are far more knowledgeable than me but don’t have the benefit of hindsight.

It wouldn’t have mattered which 23 players were selected or who was the sub, the result wouldn’t have changed, particularly if our arousal level wasn’t increased.

Our season was screwed by injuries but that provided opportunities and learnings that will make us stronger next season.

Playing Binns, Lord, Moir and Cincotta would have made us more competitive. Blokes fit enough to actually get to contests. Not thinking we were winning at all but would have been more competitive. Might have been 30-0 instead of 60 with a few bloke's actually switched on. At least you'd feel some chance from there rather than hopeless.

Charlie did his ankle before the Giants game, rumours he stepped in a hole in the ground where the sprinklers are.
In the same game TDK, Weitering and McGovern were also injured.
At the same time we were getting ahead of ourselves messing with a midfield that was working.

........................................................................

So depending on each persons thinking prior to the game the result has left us with...

Group 1-Relief it's over ...on to 2025
Group 2-Disappointed but resigned.
Group 3- Angry and upset.

The level of disappointment will vary according to our expectations. Some will move on  quickly, others may take a bit of time.

What generates the expectations and reactions is results to some degree, but the bigger generator I would argue is personality type. You can predict with a high level of accuracy how the various posters on here will react to a given situation, and that includes all of us.

I think you're both right as its a combination of the 2.

Just out of curiosity,
Which group do you think i belong too?
What about a random selection of others?

I think the best way for me to participate on the forums with some peace of mind and some joy is to keep my personal commentary to a minimum.

You get splinters in your butt if you sit on the fence too much.  :P

Playing Binns, Lord, Moir and Cincotta would have made us more competitive. Blokes fit enough to actually get to contests. Not thinking we were winning at all but would have been more competitive. Might have been 30-0 instead of 60 with a few bloke's actually switched on. At least you'd feel some chance from there rather than hopeless. As for not beating the Saints, remember the Saints very comfortably beat Geelong the previous week. They had found their form. The 4 bloke's would have blended in with some coming back. It would not have been totally the previous week's side.

But that's a position.
And sometimes it's the best position. ;)
It's like politics...the centre is the best :D

I reckon you would be a group 3 Kruds...but I think your disappointment will fade quickly because your focus will switch to List management.
I suspect you'll probably reference the result next year in pre-match threads if you think the MC have stuffed up at selection.

I was somewhere between a 1 and a 2.
I thought we might have a chance if some of our better players came back and boosted the side but we didn't get them back in a match fit state.
That's the other point. There's a difference between being 'fit to play' and being 'match fit'.
The first one is easy to determine.
The second pretty difficult.
Tom is a good example.
They didn't think he could last the game.
As it turned out he probably could have.

Yeah, nah!

Cincotta for Kennedy maybe. Lord would have had a crack, Binns would have been brushed aside and Moir is fit enough to play a whole game.