Princes Park => Robert Heatley Stand => Topic started by: crashlander on March 08, 2025, 04:12:54 pm
Title: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: crashlander on March 08, 2025, 04:12:54 pm
And?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Lods on March 13, 2025, 10:21:05 pm
Calamity >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: kruddler on March 13, 2025, 10:23:09 pm
Positives.... They've let us down early this year, so we won't have to go through the season with high expectations only to be disappointed in september.
Negatives... Its 6 months until NFL season starts.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: IvanAwfulbigone on March 13, 2025, 10:24:11 pm
Well at least that proves Sayers staged the whole thing.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Smurfy on March 13, 2025, 10:25:42 pm
Rubbish god i feel for Crippa
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Micky0 on March 13, 2025, 10:25:50 pm
I wasn’t really excited about this season - of course the injuries to Newman and Jagga put a dampener on everything but there was nothing that made me feel excited for the year… think we hit our peak and are heading back down. Poor Crippa must be sick of this crap.
Many non performers tonight, over McGs stupid lazy play, don’t understand Motlops footy sense, seems non existent, the very very very easy misses by H and K right in front of goal just continually Fck us because they get the jitters and the whole team does too. See how JSOS grabbed it strongly in the last and kicked the goal!? Do that!!!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: tex on March 13, 2025, 10:26:40 pm
50 forward entries….
I’ve said it for years. We have no effective small forwards. Haven’t since we didn’t get Papley.
Imagine Charlie, Harry, Kako
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LP on March 13, 2025, 10:27:09 pm
Negatives... Its 6 months until NFL season starts.
What chance RedTrump signs an executive order banning all Aussies from NFL? ;D
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Smurfy on March 13, 2025, 10:27:39 pm
Back to the good old Bomb it in and hope game plan
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Professer E on March 13, 2025, 10:28:27 pm
McG should have been shown the door last year, selfish lazy hack.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Micky0 on March 13, 2025, 10:29:28 pm
Another season of watching on in envy and irritation as other teams find new talent and jump ahead instead of watching my team grow and be contenders. Just a joke.
Vossy must be nervous…
Also now am more curious as to the timing of that Carlton article spanning 3 days in The Age 🤔
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: 31Tommys_barber on March 13, 2025, 10:29:55 pm
Haynes and Evans are the worst recruits I have ever seen come to the club. Why they got games is beyond me especially Evans. Surely we have players who are better than these two. Young would have been better than Haynes who stuffed up every kick handball and mark he had. Evans should have been subbed not lord Completely outcoached and we got arrogant
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: JonDorotich on March 13, 2025, 10:30:42 pm
Worst nightmare realised tonight Coaching group disgusting - inside 50s worst ever. Playing group shameful. All leaders apart from Weitering and Cripps were absolutely deplorable. McGovern, Haynes & Evans are just so bad it’s hard to watch
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Baggers on March 13, 2025, 10:33:22 pm
Picked up from where we left off last season, pretenders, soft between the lugholes, individuals, can't handle expectation, poor decision making and disposal/basic skills and too much left to too few. Twelve goals to four after qtr time... says so much.
I had high hopes, which have evaporated. Disappointed and disillusioned. Same old, same old. Dawks will make minced meat of us next week.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LordLucifer on March 13, 2025, 10:33:49 pm
I've seen some insipid & embarrassing efforts over the journey but this one takes the cake.
41-points up and choked !!
Kemp is not a forward and never will be.
Evans is a VFL spud.
Haynes is a liability.
Walsh still tries to break through tackles and just chucks the ball onto his boot, he never knows where it is going.
Cottrell is just dumb, fancy trying to kick the miracle goal from the boundary when there was a player 20m in the clear deadin front.
McGovern squibbed it once and then made a meal of everything he did after that.
Williams disappeared completely after overdoing the celebrations in the first quarter.
What were Motlop & Fogarty doinbg all game ??
How many times did we go wide and directly to a Tigers player ??
Where was the intensity, the aggression, the desperation ??
I could go on and on but why bother, we are not a premiership threat, if we can't beat last year's wooden spooners, who are a borderline basketcase, then we have nothing of note to offer.
When we front up against some of the better teams, we will get belted, nothing surer.
FMD ...........
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: rocky on March 13, 2025, 10:34:02 pm
Gutted. Could not imagine this happening. Even thought we were still in command late in the 3rd. Just pathetic. Dawks will kill us. We have lost to the wooden spooners and did it easily. I was very negative about Haynes and Motlop during the pre season and after tonight I think I was being generous. Can't believe Lord was taken off instead of one of these 2 spuds. Gutless effort.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: kruddler on March 13, 2025, 10:34:41 pm
I’ve said it for years. We have no effective small forwards. Haven’t since we didn’t get Papley.
Imagine Charlie, Harry, Kako
We have 35 small forwards on the list and still can't find a decent one. Let fill every other position on the field and forget about adding another small forward.
We have gaping holes opening up in key positions which is highlighted again tonight that we continue to ignore. Haynes is a wasted recruit. Fantasia was a wasted recruit Evans is a wasted recruit
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LP on March 13, 2025, 10:35:32 pm
I’ve said it for years. We have no effective small forwards. Haven’t since we didn’t get Papley.
Imagine Charlie, Harry, Kako
We have 35 small forwards on the list and still can't find a decent one. Let fill every other position on the field and forget about adding another small forward.
We have gaping holes opening up in key positions which is highlighted again tonight that we continue to ignore. Haynes is a wasted recruit. Fantasia was a wasted recruit Evans is a wasted recruit
Do ya reckon those 3 salaries = Owies?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: percy on March 13, 2025, 10:42:54 pm
Glad I could not watch it. Will not bother with the replay, sounds awful.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Milhanna13 on March 13, 2025, 10:47:35 pm
Haynes was even terrible in the first Q when we were braining them. Can’t understand how he was once an All Australian
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LoveNavy on March 13, 2025, 10:47:54 pm
I wonder how the club will spin this performance. Anything short of 18 players suffering from a yet to be detected illness will result in a riot. Rightly so. I feel so sorry for Crippa. Is it too early for the campfire at Ed's?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Smurfy on March 13, 2025, 10:48:25 pm
where was Moir??? why are we playing Kemp in front of him???
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Milhanna13 on March 13, 2025, 10:50:17 pm
King on fox saying that those inside 50 and contested possession numbers just don’t lose games. We have done something special here
The montage of our fumbles, missed handballs and hack kicks that lead directly to goals is scary
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LoveNavy on March 13, 2025, 10:50:43 pm
Ollie Hollands a huge positive, stood up, had a crack.
Good first game from Campo, will be a player.
Ollie should be back on the wing when Boyd is fit to return down back imo, Im not a fan of Ollie down back, or Kemp up forward, and Haynes down back and Id be playing Jack forward if the MC dont have the courage to play Lemmey when either Charlie or Harry are missing . Tigers showed that those tall young backs in Blight, Miller, Trainor learn more when they play senior footy and learn nothing being played in the twos for ever and a day.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 13, 2025, 10:58:22 pm
Haynes was even terrible in the first Q when we were braining them. Can’t understand how he was once an All Australian
His ground skills are ordinary, his kicking poor and his once very good marking ability isnt what it was. We tried to cheat with him down back and got burnt again cheating especially with Jack learning the role and McGovern having a shocker. There is no one to replace Newman other than Matt Carroll and we might have to play him even though he probably isnt where he needs to be defensively. If Weitering wasnt playing we would have lost by five goals plus...
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Baggers on March 13, 2025, 11:03:21 pm
Coaches and players succeeded in embarrassing our club this evening. Shameful.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: pinot on March 13, 2025, 11:03:50 pm
54 point turn around is amazing. Hope we havent blown our top 4 chances. Keeping Doc on the bench for Lord was the game imo.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Micky0 on March 13, 2025, 11:04:48 pm
They ramped up the pressure and we crap ourselves.
We Tackle 2 on 1 and they still get the ball out to a teammate, every time. Every time. That is crap skills.
I am gutted but in hindsight not surprised. We have no one that barrels thru and takes the ball except Cripps. Everyone else is soft.
And H was not in sync all game / always under the ball, never positioned well.
Not sure how McG survives - he just does stupid crap.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: stevie-poo on March 13, 2025, 11:04:55 pm
Bowling ball to the nuts would of been easier to handle then watching that trash. Guttered.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Shakin77 on March 13, 2025, 11:15:17 pm
You just can't defend a performance like that.
Simply horrid
65-40 inside 50's 40+ lead.
I have never seen anything like that before. Ball movement and connection between mids and forwards again horrid. We have had all pre-season to work on this and make the same mistakes
Looked like a side that thought they had done enough in the 2nd and that the Tigers would disappear into the night. Tigers got a sniff and by the time we got a run on (late) our ball movement was D grade amateurs staff.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LoveNavy on March 13, 2025, 11:26:43 pm
I guess we've made history. Again. Finalists suffer 54pt turnaround at the hands of wooden spooners. Despite winning key indicators. Incomprehensible on every level imaginable.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 13, 2025, 11:34:59 pm
Trudged home after that embarrassment and thought all the way home about should I or shouldn't I? Well I will as I need to vent. Totally unacceptable, everyone at the club needs to own that embarrassment. This mob make it so farken hard to stay loyal and fork out big dollars every year to support them. 95,000 odd members and this is the reward we get. Thankyou CFC, 30 years of tripe continues....again. We just keep making excuses, but the same incosistant rubbish gets trotted out every year. I said the comp is even and of you treat ANY opponent lightly, you get your pants pulled down, and we did...again. I'll call it early. I never want to see 3 and 26 in a Carlton jumper ever again. I thought we were getting an experienced ready made defender, he looked worse than the Rich first gamers. Closely followed by number 11 and sadly Doc, his demise and father time is fast approaching I feel. No cohesion, no system, no thought, no care. Long bomb after long bomb into the F50 was thwarted all night. Second to the ball for 3.5 qtrs, out played, out run, out smarted both on the field and in the coaches box. I had a sense that our players felt they just needed to turn up to the ground to collect the 4 points. Shining light: - Wieters battled all night surrounded by turkeys.
Mentions - Lucas Campo showed some potential but turned it over 3 or 4 times at crucial points. Remains to be seen whether playing in the 1s or developing in the 2s is better for him. Speed of the game seemed to catch him out early. - The captain battled away best he could. - TDK battled manfully but needed to push fwd and kick goals like his opponent did. - Vossy- WTF has been happening for the last 6 mths? What have they been training? To be crap? Tick, you all succeeded! The rest were just tripe, sorry but that's what I felt, haven't seen a stat, dunno who did what numbers wise but all I saw for the most was 23 blokes in navy jumpers who looked like they came together yesterday. For the 3.5 qtrs, the other mob looked like they all played 100 games together.
PS Motlop was practicing goal kicking before the main warm up in the pocket right in front me (I was sitting in M9 row Q). He missed every single shot he had! He was practicing throwing it the air, gathering the ball off the ground, and feigning one way and going the inside out banana, missed every one them. I saw him pull out of contests, tried to gather one ball with his feet instead of bending over, his seems utterly clueless. Any way, I'll try and forget that ever occurred, I had a feeling it would and it did. It should make for a seriously horrid review of the game in the coming days.
Next week will be painful, scary in fact.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: blueday on March 13, 2025, 11:36:15 pm
McGovern and Haynes both dropped. No idea.who comes in. Don't really care. Talk about ways to destroy a season before it starts. It's not the loss? it's the limp effort that kills.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 13, 2025, 11:38:18 pm
I have never seen anything like that before. Ball movement and connection between mids and forwards again horrid. We have had all pre-season to work of this and make the same mistakes
Looked like a side that thought they had done enough in the 2nd and that the Tigers would disappear into the night. Tigers got a sniff and by the time we got a run on (late) our ball movement was D grade amateurs staff.
I took a picture of the MCG scoreboard at half time when they flashed up a stat for Rebound 50s 28 to 16 their way. It was at the point that I thought we're farked here.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: rocky on March 13, 2025, 11:39:58 pm
Now we all have to go through the Friday, Saturday, Sunday comprehensive analysis by the experts on how truly awful we are. Have to say, can't see us being any different this year than we have been over the last 5 or 6.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 13, 2025, 11:41:58 pm
Get 7 goals up and become lazy and complacent...seen that before.
We should’ve been up even more but for some crap kicking at goals - but we didnt which then gave them a sniff and we crap ourselves rather than work hard.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Thryleon on March 14, 2025, 12:07:51 am
Nick Haynes was single handedly the weak link in defense. Was terribly exposed, scared, miles off the pace and just woeful.
I was saying when the game got tight swapping Kemp and jsos might have been an idea.
Our geniuses waited till the game was lost to do it. We scored 2 goals 6 after half time, and most of it after surrendered the lead.
Not good. Bodes poorly for the tacticians.
We messed around putting motlop on the ball rather than getting Harry into the game, rucking cripps...
What nightmare world am I in where we trade out Kennedy and keep rucking cripps?
Why is it, that I can see these poor ideas, and our mc cannot?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: crashlander on March 14, 2025, 01:23:06 am
When I was sitting in the train surrounded by Black and yellow idiots crowing like they'd won the premiership, I was really, really angry. I've settled a little, but I couldn't have been more disappointed. That sort of effort wins spoons, not premierships. [1] We were badly outcoached. After quarter time they nullified all the winners we had early. Where were our changes to nullify theirs? [2] The mistakes: I really don't want to go there, but I must. We gifted Richmond goals and couldn't buy one ourselves. We couldn't hit a target after quarter time, after being both brave and skilful in the first quarter. U18's don't make those mistakes, the VFL women don't make those mistakes. [3] Haynes - I remember what this guy was like, how he was playing last year, even. I don't recognize the same player. He couldn't buy a mark, but he dropped so many, got pushed out of the way by nobodies, fumbled and turned over the ball in probably the worst individual display I have ever seen from a Carlton player. He was slow, he panicked remarkably and he was a liability. I'd be bring up O'Farrell and Young in preference. Young makes mistakes and he panics, but he doesn't make them as much as Haynes did tonight. [4] Our small forwards: never was so much promised by so many and delivered by so few. At the moment, I'd be looking to move Motlop on. He has so little idea as to what he should be doing, he thinks he is faster than he is and he couldn't take a mark to save his life. And we're stupid enough to kick it to him. [5] Silvagni wasn't bad in defence; I was happy with his game. That he could, and did, move forward almost won us the game. I am happy enough to see him remain in defence, with the option of moving him forward. [6] Kemp, on the other hand, disappointed. He had opportunities early and couldn't make the most of them. He then disappeared from the game like he was shot. I don't think he is a total lost cause yet, as we couldn't hit a target to save our lives, but he had very little presence when we needed something. [7] Lucas C: 20 possessions wasn't bad, nor was the way he ran and made space. But very few of his possessions ended up in Carlton hands. Still, he was promising. He will get better. [8] Jacob Weitering was probably BOG: he dominated his position all night, killed his opponent for the whole game, took contested marks (when he wasn't spoilt by someone else, like Haynes) and generally hit targets. 11 marks, 21 possessions; he was brilliant.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: laj on March 14, 2025, 02:29:56 am
First 2 rounds often define where we are mentally in our approach for the season. When we've stunk up the first 2 rounds the rest of the season is generally terrible and the coach gets sacked. That 2nd half best be an early season fitness issue otherwise we are heading down that path again. Only seen us once turn a season around, 2023, so don't have huge confidence. Like late last year, one brilliant qtr and 3 qtrs of rubbish. Seen some amazing things happen in round 1 over the years that don't define a season, so let's hope the 41 pt lead is us and we ran out of juice but not holding my breath.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Buli on March 14, 2025, 05:35:19 am
No reason for DTK to sign on now!
Been a close watcher of the Blues for 55 years - that was a filthy display last night.
We will rebound but not a finals contender this year - my fears are starting manifest (mid-range team only)
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Buli on March 14, 2025, 06:05:22 am
Pedal to the metal for a quarter and a bit only to fade away - familiar story for the last few seasons.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: 31Tommys_barber on March 14, 2025, 06:56:42 am
Feels a bit like deja vu, we have been in the news for the wrong reasons from the presidents photography skills to good players being injured for the season to another having to “step away” onto contract discussions onto losing games we should win all of which put us back into the era of also rans I thought we had moved on from. Apparently not. We we were not desperate enough we left the door ajar for them and they kicked it down like a Brighton burglary. We now have to win games we could have dropped in tight situations. Sigh 😮💨
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: BluePhantom on March 14, 2025, 07:00:54 am
Credit where credit is due.
None there, so none given. >:(
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 14, 2025, 07:21:21 am
Feels a bit like deja vu, we have been in the news for the wrong reasons from the presidents photography skills to good players being injured for the season to another having to “step away” onto contract discussions onto losing games we should win all of which put us back into the era of also rans I thought we had moved on from. Apparently not. We we were not desperate enough we left the door ajar for them and they kicked it down like a Brighton burglary. We now have to win games we could have dropped in tight situations. Sigh 😮💨
Second to the footy all night, players waiting for their team mate to go get it mean while the Rich bloke stole it and ran away with it. Quite a few shirked contests, we are definitely pretenders.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: tonyo on March 14, 2025, 07:35:48 am
We are simply not ruthless enough to be a premiership contender.
As soon as the heat notch went up a couple of degrees, most of the team started playing scared. The Haynes/McGovern thing near the boundary was the just about most pathetic thing I have ever seen.
It is time to start picking some of the younger brigade like Moir, Wilson, and Carroll, and get the VFL spuds back where they belong.
We had more passengers than the 10.34 to Glen Waverley.......
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LP on March 14, 2025, 07:37:06 am
Are we shell shocked, in front of big crowds we look like a rabbit in the headlights these days?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 14, 2025, 07:41:10 am
We are simply not ruthless enough to be a premiership contender.
As soon as the heat notch went up a couple of degrees, most of the team started playing scared. The Haynes/McGovern thing near the boundary was the just about most pathetic thing I have ever seen.
It is time to start picking some of the younger brigade like Moir, Wilson, and Carroll, and get the VFL spuds back where they belong.
We had more passengers than the 10.34 to Glen Waverley.......
Time to play/blood kids agree. To many in this crop aren't good enough, time and time again we fail. No more excuses, time to see if the next crop are any good. Could not perform any worse than the fraudsters last night.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: tex on March 14, 2025, 07:45:09 am
Tell ya what pick 7 to Geelong for SDK and bagging TDK for $1m a season seems pretty good deal right now looking at McG and effin Haynes JFC
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LordLucifer on March 14, 2025, 08:26:56 am
After a crap night's sleep, nothing has changed !!
I'm still bitterly disappointed after that loss.
And it's not losing that really annoys me, its the manner in which we lost that gets me thoroughly fired up.
Any Blues fan who was content with that limp effort last night must have a mental disorder because it was unacceptable on every level.
Our coaching group are a rabble once again, they have no Plan B or C preferring to make a silly tweak (eg. Cripps into the ruck) in the vain hope that it will work. Yze outcoached them and he has 20-games under his belt, how screwing embarrassing is that !!
As for the players, if Weitering, DeKoning & Cripps get hit by a bus, we will be certain wooden spooners, there is bugger all else on the list with any fight or class.
Don't start me on Motlop, the guy's job is to kick goals as the designated small forward yet he failed miserably, he is a very dumb footballer who will never graduate fully. He's not desperate enough, he takes soft options in the clinches (eg. trying the dinky little kick off the ground instead of picking it up). and is yet to hurt another team on the scoreboard.
When our wonderboy List Manager thinks we are in such a good space list-wise that we can afford to bring in two bone-fide lemons like Haynes & Evans then clearly his role at the club has to be seriously questioned.
Why was Binns or Moir overlooked in favour of Evans ?? Clearly we have the Mensa Life Member group on the selection committee too.
Way too many players at our club are trading on past glories and/or too content to take the big fat weekly paycheck instead of actually earning it. There is a cultural issue amongst these players yet again, we are not going anywhere again, sadly, we have to seriously panel-beat this list once again.
Late today or sometime over the weekend, I will be doing my annual review of the playing list (you all knew it would come out after a bad loss so stop whinging) but it was not expected to be seen this early in the season.
Sadly, I am now resigned to the fact that I will never see another premiership in my lifetime such is the rabble we have become. We are the new St. Kilda with no grit, fight or aggro, we have already been surpassed by many of the opposition clubs and will now stay mid to lower table for eternity.
Carlton, you really crap me now, you promise everything with your upbeat online marketing & "she'll be right attitude" when that position couldn't be further from the truth.
Some of the past players like the Dominator, Sticks, Doull etc must be embarrassed to sit in the stands and watch these lame efforts. These sorts of standards from the current players would not have tolerated back in their day, I fail to understand why they are now.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Lods on March 14, 2025, 08:41:06 am
Don't go looking too far for answers. A couple of posters have mentioned it already. There are many contributing factors but...
Apart from the 2 or 3 players (who carry the side) we are a mentally weak side. That's the problem. And when the crunch comes, if things don't change, we will be let down time and again.
We came for a quarter, but were we ever really mentally prepared that this was the 'real' thing? After quarter time their desire, pressure and intensity was far greater and momentum went with them. Under that pressure our skills and decision making just fell apart. By the time we woke up in the last,it all became hurried and rushed and we were unable to get it together enough to get over the line.
The one certainty about AFL football is that 'nothing' is certain. (We should get some good odds for next week) ::) ::)
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 14, 2025, 08:55:41 am
Tell ya what pick 7 to Geelong for SDK and bagging TDK for $1m a season seems pretty good deal right now looking at McG and effin Haynes JFC
We might have pick 1 to play with...
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: pinot on March 14, 2025, 08:58:03 am
Completely dominated the game without winning it. I am not sure what to say after sleeping on it. Richmond kept turning over the ball as well but we couldn't score from it.
All I can take from it - Richmonds defence is still elite
Flags are won from defence and need to get that right next week.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Professer E on March 14, 2025, 09:04:11 am
No, we gave away our first rounder for this year, remember guys. Our brilliant "list strategy".... Give away two valuable and effective players. Recruit crap trucks to replace them. No viable tall defensive options other than Weeter. No pacey defenders. Refuse to develop a second ruck option Refuse to develop buy or steal a small forward, certainly one with pace Keep drafting clueless slow players who can't kick and keep playing them. Horrible unbalanced list.
Seen enough, Austin and Agresta have to be under the pump.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 14, 2025, 09:09:04 am
No, we gave away our first rounder for this year, remember guys. Our brilliant "list strategy".... Give away two valuable and effective players. Recruit crap trucks to replace them. No viable tall defensive options other than Weeter. No pacey defenders. Refuse to develop a second ruck option Refuse to develop buy or steal a small forward, certainly one with pace Keep drafting clueless slow players who can't kick and keep playing them. Horrible unbalanced list.
Seen enough, Austin and Agresta have to be under the pump.
Agree...coaching staff and recruiters have to be under the microscope now. Voss had that lost confused look you see on coaches when they don't have any more levers to pull..
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Lods on March 14, 2025, 09:09:45 am
Tell ya what pick 7 to Geelong for SDK and bagging TDK for $1m a season seems pretty good deal right now looking at McG and effin Haynes JFC
We might have pick 1 to play with...
Won't Hawthorn have that?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: deepbluesee on March 14, 2025, 09:17:20 am
Haynes - will be (one of) the whipping boys this week I'm sure and I was as disappointed as much as anyone. He seemed to fumble and drop marks - generally looked like he was lacking touch. On the upside he did get to many contests and moved well enough. I'm hoping it was a blip on the radar and he will be better for the run. I wouldn't be writing him off yet. Walsh was far from his best - add to that list Kemp, McGovern - all players we know can play. No need to throw out the baby with the bath water.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Blue Moon on March 14, 2025, 09:26:28 am
Watching Carlton is like listening to Gold FM except the hits and memories aren't all that good. Some people have said we don't have a Plan B or C but if you can't kick and hand ball the ball to your team mates then you don't have a Plan A. What is the point of having Binns, Lemmey, Wilson and Moir on the list if you are not going to play them. McGovern, Haynes, Evans and unfortunately Docherty have no future. Winners win because they win, losers lose because they lose. The relationship between the players and the supporters is an abusive one and the players need to be honest and simply say that they do not care. Our players are football stupid, they wallow in mediocrity, they don't commit to the team, don't sacrifice for the team, take no responsibility, shun leadership, never embrace a challenge and give up when things get tough. Their lives are way too comfortable. The articles in the Age reinforces my opinion that the problems at Carlton are cultural and began after 1996. We can change the coaches, change the players, change the President and Committee, change the CEO, change the recruiters, change the football department and change everything else, but the result is still the same. The team picks and chooses whether and when they will try and it is so much easier to fail than succeed. I thought after 2023 things had changed and I was heartened by the games against West Coast and St.Kilda last year but it is still the same old Carlton. Voss, Cook and Sayers have not changed a thing. Does the Club really want to change or are they just happy telling feel good stories and deflecting reality?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Thryleon on March 14, 2025, 09:31:21 am
Tell ya what pick 7 to Geelong for SDK and bagging TDK for $1m a season seems pretty good deal right now looking at McG and effin Haynes JFC
We might have pick 1 to play with...
we've traded it to hawthorn.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: PaulP on March 14, 2025, 09:33:41 am
Hopefully, when season 2025 is done and dusted, we can look back and say, factually and accurately, that R1 was our worst performance by far. Otherwise we’re just wasting everybody’s time.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Lods on March 14, 2025, 09:37:02 am
Haynes - will be (one of) the whipping boys this week I'm sure and I was as disappointed as much as anyone. He seemed to fumble and drop marks - generally looked like he was lacking touch. On the upside he did get to many contests and moved well enough. I'm hoping it was a blip on the radar and he will be better for the run. I wouldn't be writing him off yet. Walsh was far from his best - add to that list Kemp, McGovern - all players we know can play. No need to throw out the baby with the bath water.
I think everyone will have their favourite whipping boys. Hayne's disposal was poor at times (He wasn't Robinson Crusoe) but he did get plenty of them. Docherty, the same, poor disposal but he played a quarter of a game and had 14 of them. The disposal all around was awful, but it's not like we didn't get plenty of opportunities.
Walsh was a funny one, I hardly noticed him but he also got plenty of the ball.
Rusty round 1??? Hopefully.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: BluePhantom on March 14, 2025, 09:37:40 am
If we kicked straight, we would be having a different conversation, but we didn't.
If we brought the ball into our forward line better then... Why the Fu%*ing fu#$ do we keep bombing it?????????????? We've been doing it year on year out to suggest IT DOES NOT WORK!!!!!!! IT DOES NOT WORK
Clear out the forward line of all our specialist small forwards and leave the big fellas room to lead to. Everyman and his dog is inside the 50 wanting to kick a goal. Let them lead and honour the leads. Play team footy and the team will win.
Get Eddie Betts to mentor Motlop because the only thing he knows what to do at the moment is run onto the ground through the banner. Otherwise clueless!!!
How to stop other teams momentums?? Leaders lead and Coaches coach. Our Leaders NEED to be more vocal or demanding of players and our Coaches, well, I would like them to be ALOT more tactical. Not the end of the world but it certainly felt like it.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Baggers on March 14, 2025, 09:39:44 am
Now every opposition coach knows (we've known it for ages), this group is mentally soft.
Forget singling out individuals, their poor or average efforts are but symptoms of us being mentally soft. When a few drop their heads it sweeps through the side like a virus - poor leadership, discipline and resilience... and fight. We don't fight, we'd rather finesse.
Remember the GWS game last year when we established a big lead then we started drinking our bath water and then were easily overrun... and have seldom looked any good/threatening since.
When you consider the circumstance (opening round), the young, inexperienced opposition... we capitulated. We actually looked frightened and desperate. When the pressure comes we resort to type - an ordinary football team.
Same old, same old... apply serious pressure and we go to water and panic.
Vossy uses the word 'disappointed' a lot, I'd replace that word with pathetic. Just a disjointed, poorly skilled rabble who cannot handle the real tough stuff of AFL footy at the highest level. Our brand was embarrassed last night, even humiliated.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Lods on March 14, 2025, 09:51:40 am
Now every opposition coach knows (we've known it for ages), this group is mentally soft.
Forget singling out individuals, their poor or average efforts are but symptoms of us being mentally soft. When a few drop their heads it sweeps through the side like a virus - poor leadership, discipline and resilience... and fight. We don't fight, we'd rather finesse.
Remember the GWS game last year when we established a big lead then we started drinking our bath water and then were easily overrun... and have seldom looked any good/threatening since.
When you consider the circumstance (opening round), the young, inexperienced opposition... we capitulated. We actually looked frightened and desperate. When the pressure comes we resort to type - an ordinary football team.
Same old, same old... apply serious pressure and we go to water and panic.
Vossy uses the word 'disappointed' a lot, I'd replace that word with pathetic. Just a disjointed, poorly skilled rabble who cannot handle the real tough stuff of AFL footy at the highest level. Our brand was embarrassed last night, even humiliated.
Yep Mentally weak. The problem is this is not something you can coach. And once entrenched it's hard to turn around. It can come from experience, especially through years of adversity. It can make you tougher, more resilient. Who are our mentally tough players. Cripps, Weitering, Docherty (for sure), I think DeKoning has it in him, Newman (sadly), Walsh??? (has been hampered a bit by injury), Silvagni... it falls away rather dramatically after that.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 14, 2025, 10:07:32 am
Completely dominated the game without winning it. I am not sure what to say after sleeping on it. Richmond kept turning over the ball as well but we couldn't score from it.
All I can take from it - Richmonds defence is still elite
Flags are won from defence and need to get that right next week.
Even when we got to our 41 point lead, they defended that stupid, Hail Mary long bomb into the fwd line very well.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 14, 2025, 10:10:01 am
If we kicked straight, we would be having a different conversation, but we didn't.
If we brought the ball into our forward line better then... Why the Fu%*ing fu#$ do we keep bombing it?????????????? We've been doing it year on year out to suggest IT DOES NOT WORK!!!!!!! IT DOES NOT WORK
Clear out the forward line of all our specialist small forwards and leave the big fellas room to lead to. Everyman and his dog is inside the 50 wanting to kick a goal. Let them lead and honour the leads. Play team footy and the team will win.
Get Eddie Betts to mentor Motlop because the only thing he knows what to do at the moment is run onto the ground through the banner. Otherwise clueless!!!
How to stop other teams momentums?? Leaders lead and Coaches coach. Our Leaders NEED to be more vocal or demanding of players and our Coaches, well, I would like them to be ALOT more tactical. Not the end of the world but it certainly felt like it.
Motlop is beyond mentoring and beyond AFL. I dont care how young he is or anything else, he is not AFL level now and never will be. Getting rid of Owies came home to roost last night, we have a serious gap now. Getting in Haynes to fill a gap has now created one instead.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: northernblue on March 14, 2025, 10:28:20 am
Pedal to the metal for a quarter and a bit only to fade away - familiar story for the last few seasons.
Welcome Buli, pity the team didn’t care as much last night.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LP on March 14, 2025, 10:32:13 am
You are only as good as those you practise with.
When our Mids kick the ball to Motlop or Evans in 1 on 1 they expect them to mark, because that is what happens at training, Motlop and Evans better our small to medium defenders at training. We've built a game plan on something that doesn't really exist.
Watching the replay, when Nthmond started turning the game around Jack Riewoldt praised for the simple act of Lynch not being out marked, bringing the ball to ground for the crumbers as the first step. Unlike last night when BigH was outpointed by a newbie, we've previously gone through a whole season without BigH or Charlie being out marked and we still see zero impact from the smalls or the Mids pushing forward. It's a huge problem.
Our Mids do not have the pace to get ahead of the contest, so they go early, King talks about it as anticipation during the Fox broadcast, but that leaves our defence heavily exposed and when Nthmond forced mistakes we get burnt the other way because our slower than average Mids and SFF can't catch up with the play.
We basically have to be flawless in execution to have a chance, and that is impossible.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Professer E on March 14, 2025, 10:35:08 am
Moir and Carroll next week. Ta ta Haynes, MacG and Motlop. SoS forward, Kemp back
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 14, 2025, 10:53:38 am
Moir and Carroll next week. Ta ta Haynes, MacG and Motlop. SoS forward, Kemp back
Wont happen, wouldnt see that many changes apart from Charlie being rushed back in fit or not.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: PaulP on March 14, 2025, 11:26:40 am
The team looked disjointed and lacking cohesion. I'm not sure reactionary changes are in the team's best long term interest. The season is barely a pup.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Baggers on March 14, 2025, 11:28:35 am
Why the hell did Vossy say at the open training that we wouldn't win every game? Why introduce failure into the conversation?
I think a spotlight, unfortunately, will move to our coaching group.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Macca37 on March 14, 2025, 11:52:52 am
The only good thing that happened to me last night was getting a train home before the Richmond mob arrived.
I agree with all the comments made so far on this thread. After so many decades watching Carlton I knew we were in trouble half way through the second quarter. Unlike our glory years when we would come out after half time and belt the opposition into submission by three quarter time, we once again showed the mental fragility that has been on display every season this century.
Despite numerous coaches and hundreds of players moving through our list this century, the two things supporters can expect to happen with certainty are mental fragility and players crumbling under pressure.
I just give up.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: cookie2 on March 14, 2025, 12:08:58 pm
The only good thing that happened to me last night was getting a train home before the Richmond mob arrived.
I agree with all the comments made so far on this thread. After so many decades watching Carlton I knew we were in trouble half way through the second quarter. Unlike our glory years when we would come out after half time and belt the opposition into submission by three quarter time, we once again showed the mental fragility that has been on display every season this century.
Despite numerous coaches and hundreds of players moving through our list this century, the two things supporters can expect to happen with certainty are mental fragility and players crumbling under pressure.
I just give up.
I feel the same. We have deep deep cultural problems.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: laj on March 14, 2025, 12:22:01 pm
Ah well, suppose we wait until next week to see if the 2nd half was a round 1-like aberration you see often, or we are heading into a long season. Happy to wait a week and see but not exactly full of confidence. Win next week and no-one cares about last night, lose though badly though.........
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Slowhand on March 14, 2025, 12:27:23 pm
A long year folks. :)) :)) :))
Tiggers will struggle as the season gets going. How some were saying we will win by 100 pts is a joke, these first round games are always close.
I put all the fumbles and mistakes down to precieved pressure and first game nerves. Backline needs more continuity. It all looks great in match simulation and practice hitouts but the reality is anyone can beat anyone if your even five percent off. 5 goals fron defensive turnovers should be enough to demand a few answers.
Sacking coaches, blaming the recuiting and bagging players is what we are......
I will once again review my comments after round 12.
We will be better with Charlie back next week and I expect a massive mindshift. They should review the Fark out of the second half and then have a gander at the Reserves today.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: pertz on March 14, 2025, 12:30:40 pm
Not much more to add that hasn't already been stated by the learned supporters on this forum. I'm a rusted on 45 year Carlton member and I'm flat as a tack today. Agree totally that their are players out there because of reputation/past glories/false expectations. Let's see what the response is in the next few weeks. The room of mirrors is going to be crowded at PP this week.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LP on March 14, 2025, 01:40:48 pm
I usually have a bit of time for Dunstall, but his stoic defence of Lynch belting TDK in the jaw with a straight out hip and shoulder was utter diabolic dribble.
In the post match, they (Dunstall and King) started blaming Weitering for pushing Lynch into TDK, they seem to forget the broadcast these days is 4K 100Hz and the slow motion is unequivocal about the amount of force used by players. Dunstall is of course betting the footy ratings on the general public being dead set morons and swallowing the spin.
However, then along comes Christian, he'll probably clear Lynch and ban Weiters for four weeks.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 14, 2025, 01:50:09 pm
I usually have a bit of time for Dunstall, but his stoic defence of Lynch belting TDK in the jaw with a straight out hip and shoulder was utter diabolic dribble.
In the post match, they (Dunstall and King) started blaming Weitering for pushing Lynch into TDK, they seem to forget the broadcast these days is 4K 100Hz and the slow motion is unequivocal about the amount of force used by players. Dunstall is of course betting the footy ratings on the general public being dead set morons and swallowing the spin.
However, then along comes Christian, he'll probably clear Lynch and ban Weiters for four weeks.
Lynch has form imo for doing dirty stuff and if the AFL are serious about head high hits they will give him a holiday...
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: northernblue on March 14, 2025, 01:57:56 pm
I usually have a bit of time for Dunstall, but his stoic defence of Lynch belting TDK in the jaw with a straight out hip and shoulder was utter diabolic dribble.
In the post match, they (Dunstall and King) started blaming Weitering for pushing Lynch into TDK, they seem to forget the broadcast these days is 4K 100Hz and the slow motion is unequivocal about the amount of force used by players. Dunstall is of course betting the footy ratings on the general public being dead set morons and swallowing the spin.
However, then along comes Christian, he'll probably clear Lynch and ban Weiters for four weeks.
I felt the same, Weiters only had fingers on Lynch, no force.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Micky0 on March 14, 2025, 02:30:03 pm
Only in the last with JSOS marking strongly and jogging back to take the shot for a goal, did I feel someone out there was going to try and turn it around at that point. He has that confidence about him that so many of our other players do not. We need mongrel we need inner confidence and some Prick about us.
I reckon Cowan and Ollie have that too - why was Lord taken off for Doch? He has a bit in him too.
Sorry don’t buy the excuses about takes time to play together, Haynes is a little rusty, first round nerves - Honestly after the absolute crapSHOW we served up in the first half of our final against Brisbane last year, they should’ve been chomping at the bit to run out and annihilate This team of near-children! They should be utterly ashamed - and I’m a Voss fan but wtf is the strategy mate!?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: cookie2 on March 14, 2025, 02:36:13 pm
Very doubtful about Motlop. Looked slow by foot and mind. Not what we need and will not make it imho.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: pew2 on March 14, 2025, 02:37:25 pm
how many times /years have we seen this ,i said to my daughter NOTHING CHANGED and i blame 1 coaching panel and 2 recruiting haynes and evans would not get a game in any other team , so much for vossy speed and power over summer JOKE
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: pew2 on March 14, 2025, 02:39:14 pm
we need to do now is no f.....k.n media during week and come out play 4 Q against hawks and win ,only way to earn respect again
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: cookie2 on March 14, 2025, 02:41:30 pm
Agree, Haynes and Evans unimpressive on debut. We need a lot better from both.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: kruddler on March 14, 2025, 02:51:46 pm
I think its worth noting, for all their injuries and limitations (speed) 2 blokes who put in last night and did their best work in the last 15-20minutes of the game..... Silvagni and Docherty.
Yes, they are slow and have been injured and may not have a specific position in the side they can call their own. BUT.... When the $h!t hits the fan and you want blokes to put their balls on the line and do what they can, those 2 are who you would back to get it done.
Both are pure footballers. Not downhill skiers.
Docherty spent most of the game on the bench. He only played 27% game time, a touch over a full quarter of the game. He finished with 14 touches and 2 shots on goal (unfortunatly 0.2).
Jack Silvagni did his best Stephen impersonation by being solid down back before being thrown forward to try and win us the game....and he almost did with 1.1 which was our only goal in the last quarter.
Get another 20-odd blokes similar to them out there and we won't have the same lapses like we had last night.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Micky0 on March 14, 2025, 03:00:02 pm
Would’ve liked Elijah out there last night - I wonder how much his absence hurt ?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 14, 2025, 03:05:21 pm
Would’ve liked Elijah out there last night - I wonder how much his absence hurt ?
Both him and Newman were really missed....Elijah would have given us another goalkicker and some relief in the middle. You look at the Tigers mids and you have Taranto and Hopper then it drops away to Ross, Thomson Dow and McIntosh...its not exactly a Rolls Royce midfield and I reckon Elijah would have given us some drive and quality usage. Cerra gets a bit of footy but does he really impact or hurt the opposition, cant remember any forward thrust of note with him involved..
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: pinot on March 14, 2025, 04:19:10 pm
Still cant get over how we lost the game on match stats - a complete domination
Small forwards and intercept defending sucked. The amount of times Richmond turned over the ball and not capitalising on their errors is something I wish i never see again
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: rocky on March 14, 2025, 05:34:43 pm
Have willed my myself to watch parts of the game in small doses. 1:15 to go in the last. We're 8 points down Cottrell gets a handball from Cripps in the right forward pocket and decides against all that is holy to try the banana snap at goal when he had a bloke 30 metres out directly in front (Evans) unmarked he could've passed to. Selfish, stupid, unprofessional, undisciplined. Switched off the rest.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Thryleon on March 14, 2025, 05:35:08 pm
Have willed my myself to watch parts of the game in small doses. 1:15 to go in the last. We're 8 points down Cottrell gets a handball from Cripps in the right forward pocket and decides against all that is holy to try the banana snap at goal when he had a bloke 30 metres out directly in front (Evans) unmarked he could've passed to. Selfish, stupid, unprofessional, undisciplined. Switched off the rest.
I wouldnt have passed to evans either.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: rocky on March 14, 2025, 05:36:20 pm
Have willed my myself to watch parts of the game in small doses. 1:15 to go in the last. We're 8 points down Cottrell gets a handball from Cripps in the right forward pocket and decides against all that is holy to try the banana snap at goal when he had a bloke 30 metres out directly in front (Evans) unmarked he could've passed to. Selfish, stupid, unprofessional, undisciplined. Switched off the rest.
I wouldnt have passed to evans either.
Mate, I could've kicked it from there.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: kruddler on March 14, 2025, 05:37:26 pm
Have willed my myself to watch parts of the game in small doses. 1:15 to go in the last. We're 8 points down Cottrell gets a handball from Cripps in the right forward pocket and decides against all that is holy to try the banana snap at goal when he had a bloke 30 metres out directly in front (Evans) unmarked he could've passed to. Selfish, stupid, unprofessional, undisciplined. Switched off the rest.
If we are pointing out that, then i will point out the contested shot that Cripps had that was smothered. Replay shows Lucas Camporeale all alone 15m behind him facing the goal. An extra handball from Cripps and its a certain goal to Lucas. But, he tried to do too much, which is a common trend from him......because it usually works.
Plenty of what ifs that you can play out that will send you insane. Best to forget it ever happened and move on to next week.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 14, 2025, 07:12:09 pm
Have willed my myself to watch parts of the game in small doses. 1:15 to go in the last. We're 8 points down Cottrell gets a handball from Cripps in the right forward pocket and decides against all that is holy to try the banana snap at goal when he had a bloke 30 metres out directly in front (Evans) unmarked he could've passed to. Selfish, stupid, unprofessional, undisciplined. Switched off the rest.
If you are brave enough, check out the HS website article our game, video after video of embarrassing errors.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: rocky on March 14, 2025, 07:30:51 pm
Plenty of what ifs that you can play out that will send you insane. Best to forget it ever happened and move on to next week.
I'd like to but this one really sticks. I think it will for a very long time. Terrible night's sleep last night and been flat all day. Hopefully a Dawk or Essenscum loss tonight will cheer me up a bit.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: crashlander on March 14, 2025, 07:42:29 pm
Some points from last night's disaster: [1] Our small forwards don't have much idea. Evens was very ordinary, but for his goal. Williams looked dangerous, but couldn't find space after quarter time. Motlop had a shocker. He had no game sense and his fumbling turned the ball over. Cottrell wasn't bad early, but he really didn't do the defensive things we really needed. I know Fantasia has been playing well, but is he the answer? I doubt it. I would be thinking about Will White next week: he has some idea what he should be doing. [2] Our entries into the forward line we very ordinary after quarter time. Expecting Motlop to out-mark anyone isn't smart. Kicking to predictable packs wasn't smart either. Making room for forward is the logical move, but did we do it? Kemp was bad in this area, after a decent enough start. He just didn't lead effectively as wasn't a target. [3] In the first quarter we dominated the rucks. Tom was on top of Nankervis, while H was effective in his time there. Even Cripps was effective to start with. Then Richmond changed things up and we no longer had ruck dominance. Tom, for example, couldn't find a teammate for love or money. I think we should have changed things, instead of depending on things that we no longer working; having H play more of Nankervis and Tom go against a tired Nank or his chop-outs. Playing H more there would have been a reasonable change that could have proved worthwhile (he wasn't doing a lot as a forward). As the Tiger attack was small, even giving Jack a go might have proved useful: he, at least, tries to tap the ball to a team mate. When Cripps had a turn, it worked until Richmond worked out he was going to grab the ball. From then on, he was ineffective. Perhaps a tap to a teammate might have been useful. When we lost control of the tap, the Richmond mids out-worked us, which was disappointing. But, our centre square setup was the same as last years when it wasn't working. We need to work on that. [4] Haynes and McGovern: Jaynes got the ball a lot, but he may as well have been wearing a Richmond guernsey. His kicks and handballs were poor and led directly to turnovers. His inability to hold a mark: I don't want to go there. Even last year he was holding his marks. His inability to work with his teammates also stood out, as was his panicking. His game was disastrous. McGovern was similar, but not as bad. He held more marks and didn't turn it over every time he got it, but he lost confidence quickly and made a couple of awful mistakes. He isn't the future, but he can probably do the job for this season. I couldn't say that about Haynes.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: dodge on March 14, 2025, 09:24:39 pm
Silver lining - no expectations to be met any more this season. And Richmond will have their balloon pricked, so will come back to earth with a thud.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: laj on March 14, 2025, 10:43:24 pm
Just hope we fell away and blew a 41pt lead due to early season fitness, as round 1 can be very strange. If it's not our short term future isn't bright.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: laj on March 15, 2025, 11:02:47 am
Watched some of the lowlights package on Fox Sports. That is some of the worst stuff I have ever had the misfortune to see from any football club. So glad, being away, that I never watched it live.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Baggers on March 15, 2025, 11:12:31 am
We seem to be a very easy side to coach against. Harpoon or cover our strengths - instant confusion. This is not just based on last Thursday's debacle, this is a theme over some time.
Still between the ears.
But we are a very nice club.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Baggers on March 15, 2025, 11:15:30 am
Silver lining - no expectations to be met any more this season. And Richmond will have their balloon pricked, so will come back to earth with a thud.
Couldn't give a rats furry clacker about the Tiggers, or any other club for that matter. But your comment re lowering expectations hit home. Feint praise it's a silver lining. Every CFC member and supporter I've spoken with has adjusted expectation to low, very low.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Thryleon on March 15, 2025, 11:17:17 am
Silver lining - no expectations to be met any more this season. And Richmond will have their balloon pricked, so will come back to earth with a thud.
Couldn't give a rats furry clacker about the Tiggers, or any other club for that matter. But your comment re lowering expectations hit home. Feint praise it's a silver lining. Every CFC member and supporter I've spoken with has adjusted expectation to low, very low.
the sad part is, that our club has form with this. Back up with a poor loss to hawthorn and our club will be mentally cooked and you can effectively write off our entire season.
That's what history suggests will happen.
Bring the kids in and let's stop beating round the bush.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: PaulP on March 15, 2025, 11:46:46 am
By all means catastrophize the Tigers game, but I don't think we should catastrophize the whole season. We've played 1 game out of 23. There's many variables that can affect the fortunes of all 18 teams.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Baggers on March 15, 2025, 12:27:36 pm
By all means catastrophize the Tigers game, but I don't think we should catastrophize the whole season. We've played 1 game out of 23. There's many variables that can affect the fortunes of all 18 teams.
Gee I hope you're right, Pauly. And, yes, wiping off an entire season based on one poor showing doesn't make sense... but... what we saw on Thursday night was so very, very familiar and similar to past years. It's as if we believe a catch-phrase or two and move a few magnets will make all the different. Time will tell.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Lods on March 15, 2025, 12:29:08 pm
I'm reading in some places that it's the worst loss in the last 30 years. Some folks are slightly over-reacting, I feel. ;)
I understand it's probably 'depression' based on years of 'let down.' But it needs a bit of perspective. When the game was in 'contest' we got out to nearly a seven goal lead. Yep we gave it up. But we got there in the first place. Our best periods were miles better than their best periods. It's a game we should have won. Even in the last quarter, with just a bit more composure, we had plenty of opportunities. But it became a 'frantic' rushed effort.
Run the Hawks close (don't have to win) and it will turn on it's head again. Taking it 'one game at a time' is for the players, not the supporters. We'll know exactly where we are in about 6-8 weeks time.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Thryleon on March 15, 2025, 12:35:50 pm
Paul, I don't like to catastrophe the season, but when the game got tight and we needed a circuit breaker I looked at the blokes playing and realised we didn't have one.
Curnow and fantasia are the only two names I can think of that will swim against the tide and put their hand up and turn it.
I made a lengthy post about tactics. Momentum and scoring being the king in modern sports.
Without Charlie in the side, the guys looked bereft of confidence. That's not to belittle the guys playing but they are not game changers.
That's ok, not everyone can be but we needed a player to take the game by the scruff of the neck 3rd quarter and I found myself thinking only cripps is the one. That bodes poorly for us. Harry's effort from the boundary is the sort of thing made of bad mentality, and it spoke for where his heads at. If his head space is no good he gives you a nothing game. His head space is no good without Charlie, whilst Charlie finds another level without him. That's the sort of stuff that is going to see us struggle in tight ones all season. Owies did this to a degree but he would also go missing when the team was up and about.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Thryleon on March 15, 2025, 12:36:58 pm
I'm reading in some places that it's the worst loss in the last 30 years. Some folks are slightly over-reacting, I feel. ;)
I understand it's probably 'depression' based on years of 'let down.' But it needs a bit of perspective. When the game was in 'contest' we got out to nearly a seven goal lead. Yep we gave it up. But we got there in the first place. Our best periods were miles better than their best periods. It's a game we should have won. Even in the last quarter, with just a bit more composure, we had plenty of opportunities. But it became a 'frantic' rushed effort.
Run the Hawks close (don't have to win) and it will turn on it's head again. Taking it 'one game at a time' is for the players, not the supporters. We'll know exactly where we are in about 6-8 weeks time.
41 points up against a team that finished wooden spoon last year. It's shocking. Comparable to our come back vs Brisbane last year, but we had just come off a prelim against them and they were down after a GF loss. What's our excuse?
I said it before our mental lightweights are likely to write off 4 rounds after this one. Won't respond.
I think most fans are living life with rose coloured glasses on. I was so so about this season based on how we started pre season and I said before the game that we needed to win well to convince me we could do something this season. Halfway through the third I still thought we'd win, but was resigned to that being just enough after being up by 41, and extremely dissapointed to have not won well at that point still thinking we'd turn it around.
In reality the coaches made tactical blunders and missed stuff blind Freddie could see, subbed the incorrect player, and then we lost. That was what was dissapointing. It dot pointed what we've been saying since mid way last year about strange choices.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: PaulP on March 15, 2025, 12:39:03 pm
Gee I hope you're right, Pauly. And, yes, wiping off an entire season based on one poor showing doesn't make sense... but... what we saw on Thursday night was so very, very familiar and similar to past years. It's as if we believe a catch-phrase or two and move a few magnets will make all the different. Time will tell.
I guess I'm just saying we need more data before we can make a sensible guess. Humanity's record at predicting future events across the full spectrum of human endeavor, throughout history, is pretty lousy.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: PaulP on March 15, 2025, 01:06:28 pm
Interesting to hear Adem Yze state that according to the "expected score" metric, Carlton should've won.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Professer E on March 15, 2025, 01:26:09 pm
We've got a bad habit of dropping games we shouldn't, but it's the way we lost this and the poor standards that really are really concerning a lot of people.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 15, 2025, 01:56:57 pm
We had lack of effort, poor contesting and players avoiding getting hit thats even before we start talking dodgy skills, we wont win games with that standard of effort. We have players getting big numbers but doing nothing with those stats apart from filling up the stat sheet and meeting targets for more contract extensions and money. The List Management is woeful and signing players to long term deals who have never produced consistent performances or are injury prone is madness. You reap what you sow and we have an unbalanced list lacking depth with a poor standard of players at the bottom end of that list and I can now understand why a lot of scribes had us missing the finals because we cant be trusted to turn up and try....watched Hawthorn and Essendon play and it was a game played at a much higher standard of skill and effort. The lack of accountability for that embarrassing performance has been poor......we had to cancel the membership drive day planned on SEN because of that rubbish performance and to see Voss using the history excuse of close games with Richmond round 1 and smiling was disturbing. 9 goals to 2 in the second half, he said it was too difficult to ask the players their mindset for the game??? You got to be joking coach....Id be asking, demanding and calling out the non negotiables I expect. No more BBQ's at Ed Curnows, we are not running an encounter group and you dont embarrass the club ever.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Lods on March 15, 2025, 02:18:56 pm
I've already stated I think we're a mentally weak side. I think it's our Achilles heel but... Two reasons why I think we may be seeing an over-reaction to the loss.
1) We haven't had a settled side since the middle of last year when we were sitting second on the ladder. We're still not settled, with a lot of newbies or players who've only played a few games for the club. 2) We actually have no idea how good Richmond are...it's easy to label them 'woodenspooners' and it may play out exactly that way for them again. But maybe not. They may be big improvers. The corresponding match last year saw us get home by only 5 points...so not a lot of change there other than an 'L' Let's wait a couple of weeks before we burn the memberships.
'
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Thryleon on March 15, 2025, 02:31:15 pm
I've already stated I think we're a mentally weak side. I think it's our Achilles heel but... Two reasons why I think we may be seeing an over-reaction to the loss.
1) We haven't had a settled side since the middle of last year when we were sitting second on the ladder. We're still not settled, with a lot of newbies or players who've only played a few games for the club. 2) We actually have no idea how good Richmond are...it's easy to label them 'woodenspooners' and it may play out exactly that way for them again. But maybe not. They may be big improvers. The corresponding match last year saw us get home by only 5 points...so not a lot of change there other than an 'L' Let's wait a couple of weeks before we burn the memberships.
'
sorry lods but Richmond side squashes any excuses about unsettled teams, lack of idea about how good they'll be and just about any excuse you can make for us bar yet another lack lustre preseason.
They've had half a side of debutants.
I prefer the round 1 anomaly voss trotted out.
You guys want to stay up beat and positive save it for next week.
An honourable loss would be a step up for our mob to how we finished home and away last season.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Bluesers on March 15, 2025, 02:37:31 pm
Quote
I said it before our mental lightweights are likely to write off 4 rounds after this one. Won't respond.
I think most fans are living life with rose coloured glasses on. I was so so about this season based on how we started pre season and I said before the game that we needed to win well to convince me we could do something this season. Halfway through the third I still thought we'd win, but was resigned to that being just enough after being up by 41, and extremely dissapointed to have not won well at that point still thinking we'd turn it around.
In reality the coaches made tactical blunders and missed stuff blind Freddie could see, subbed the incorrect player, and then we lost. That was what was dissapointing. It dot pointed what we've been saying since mid way last year about strange choices.
Agree 100%. A disaster like this to start the season is too difficult for a mentally soft group like this team to come back . Mental softness causes the constant inconsistency, there are very few match winners in this group who can turn the tide at crucial times; Motlop needs to go he won't make the grade, as does the whole recruitment department - they are a disgrace and are taking their salaries under false pretences.
This loss was the lowest of the low, and those who are making excuses as to why it could happen are just dreaming. Too many soft passengers with low footy iq's in this team for us to make top 4, and if youre honest, then it's difficult to see them even finishing top 10. We've had one of the best nucleus groups in this team for the past 6-7 years but the morons who run the recruiting department keep surrounding them with spuds and duds from other clubs and poor draft choices. I really feel for Cripps, Weitering etc because their talents are now wasted and their dream (and ours) of being around a competitive finals team are now unlikely to be realised. Voss has to take a lot of the blame, but the recruiting department have completely decimated what shouldve been a successful rebuild, and now needs another mini build.
The eternal optimists will come up with lots of reasons and excuses.... the era of excuses is over, just like this team. They just have no idea how to consistently deliver. This won't change until they start getting rid of these highly paid spuds with low iq's who think they can keep putting in low efforts every week; and replace the recruitment department with people who have some idea about the game. Lots more I wanted to say, but just thinking too much about this disaster team gives me a headache.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Macca37 on March 15, 2025, 02:39:55 pm
Lods, I hope you are right, but from where I was sitting I saw fumbles, bad handballs, mis-kicks, kicking to the opposition when under pressure and not under pressure, getting in the way of a teammate when going for a mark etc, etc.
The play was of a standard that wouldn't be tolerated by the coach of a Sunday amateur team let alone an AFL club.
The players are well rewarded and it is not unreasonable for us to expect players to deliver a standard of play certainly way above the rubbish we saw on Thursday night.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Lods on March 15, 2025, 02:49:46 pm
Lods, I hope you are right, but from where I was sitting I saw fumbles, bad handballs, mis-kicks, kicking to the opposition when under pressure and not under pressure, getting in the way of a teammate when going for a mark etc, etc.
The play was of a standard that wouldn't be tolerated by the coach of a Sunday amateur team let alone an AFL club.
The players are well rewarded and it is not unreasonable for us to expect players to deliver a standard of play certainly way above the rubbish we saw on Thursday night.
But we're better than that. We saw it in the first half of last season. The pesonnel haven't changed dramatically since then, injury and interrupted preparation has impacted though.
If we see 4-5 weeks of similar skill levels I'll get on board. I'll grab my torch and pitchfork and join in.
I'm much more concerned about the mental side of things, the desire , intensity and pressure. That's what I want to see.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Slowhand on March 15, 2025, 03:15:14 pm
Lods, I hope you are right, but from where I was sitting I saw fumbles, bad handballs, mis-kicks, kicking to the opposition when under pressure and not under pressure, getting in the way of a teammate when going for a mark etc, etc.
The play was of a standard that wouldn't be tolerated by the coach of a Sunday amateur team let alone an AFL club.
The players are well rewarded and it is not unreasonable for us to expect players to deliver a standard of play certainly way above the rubbish we saw on Thursday night.
Totally agree. Have a look at JSOS interview after the game (CFC homepage). He is hurting and Hope he has a crack in the Team meeting. You know our Match Committee wont drop McG and Haynes. They will argue continuity and experience.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LoveNavy on March 15, 2025, 03:21:46 pm
It's not worth my mental energy to try and understand that comprehensive, history making dismantling by a rebuilding (Year 1) side.
Instead. I'll make a couple of points that resonate for me.
- we have history of "fading" (per CFC news) when the oppo up the heat - we have one of the longest droughts of the big clubs - we have an unenviable W/L ratio in the modern era - we have history turning over players and staff with minimal on field gains - we have consistently high injury numbers - our supporters are both passionate and fed up. Perfect formula for chronic stress and resultant responses. Be it aggressive, submissive, hopeless. - interesting comments from Buckley: we have a few top players and then zip
I'm half expecting something to give should nothing change soon. I'd like to encourage those feeling that response deeply (so much anger, despair, humiliation on socials) to take care of themselves. Do whatever you need, to regain perspective and agency. Heaven knows life is brimming with stressors impacting the load of many. Take care.
Let's hope our boys are also supported to turn that dark day into light.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: PaulP on March 15, 2025, 03:43:24 pm
Nobody is suggesting that we played well, but the fact is we did enough to win. Teams with that type of data profile usually do.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LP on March 15, 2025, 03:50:27 pm
A team of kids found us extremely comfortable to play against, so the old too many introverts not enough extroverts might get a run.
Sure they got away with pushing us in the back, holding off the ball, tunnelling our talls, but nobody on our side retaliated. Lynch drives a shoulder into the jaw of our solo ruck, and nobody reacts, nada, zilch, nothing!
We look like we are doing just enough physical work to be satisfied with the level of effort, walking off guilt free.
The flipside side of being introverts is that if you play like Robert Harvey, Flower or Craig Bradley, you have to be prepared to run your ring off, and I don't see much of that either. We come off the ground beaten, we looked mentally downtrodden, but definitely not exhausted.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 15, 2025, 06:42:59 pm
Lods, I hope you are right, but from where I was sitting I saw fumbles, bad handballs, mis-kicks, kicking to the opposition when under pressure and not under pressure, getting in the way of a teammate when going for a mark etc, etc.
The play was of a standard that wouldn't be tolerated by the coach of a Sunday amateur team let alone an AFL club.
The players are well rewarded and it is not unreasonable for us to expect players to deliver a standard of play certainly way above the rubbish we saw on Thursday night.
Totally agree. Have a look at JSOS interview after the game (CFC homepage). He is hurting and Hope he has a crack in the Team meeting. You know our Match Committee wont drop McG and Haynes. They will argue continuity and experience.
As leaders, SOS Weiters Crippa and at a pinch TDK should make their ears ring during the review of that tripe.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: kruddler on March 15, 2025, 07:02:50 pm
I'm reading in some places that it's the worst loss in the last 30 years. Some folks are slightly over-reacting, I feel. ;)
I certainly haven't said that and i'm not one to go overboard on superlatives or the opposite.
However, whoever said that has a point. In terms of favourites to win.....and not.....thats gotta be our biggest in 30 years. I can't recall exactly, but on footytipping.com it shows you who has picked who as a percentage. This was high 90's to us, at least 95% if not 98%.
Not many times we'd ever be that strong of a favourite....and doubt we've lost one after being so overplayed.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Lods on March 15, 2025, 07:20:14 pm
I'm reading in some places that it's the worst loss in the last 30 years. Some folks are slightly over-reacting, I feel. ;)
I certainly haven't said that and i'm not one to go overboard on superlatives or the opposite.
However, whoever said that has a point. In terms of favourites to win.....and not.....thats gotta be our biggest in 30 years. I can't recall exactly, but on footytipping.com it shows you who has picked who as a percentage. This was high 90's to us, at least 95% if not 98%.
Not many times we'd ever be that strong of a favourite....and doubt we've lost one after being so overplayed.
It wasn't said on here...that I could see. But really was it such a surprise that it 'could' happen. Go back to the pre-match thread. Multiple posters, I think even including yourself, warned about it in the pre match thread. Many thought we were 'home and hosed'...they'd be among the most disappointed. Obviously, once they got to 40 odd points in front the players thought it as well...and that's when it will often come back to bite you on the bum.
'Favourites' in the first match of a season....is pretty dodgy in the first place. It's a new start for everyone, and some teams with an extra growth and development from the previous year may make a bit of a 'lie' as to 2024 form.
At the moment Richmond aren't woodenspooners, They're an undefeated top 4 side. ;) Ask Voss..."The ladder doesn't lie." :D :D
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 15, 2025, 08:15:55 pm
I certainly haven't said that and i'm not one to go overboard on superlatives or the opposite.
However, whoever said that has a point. In terms of favourites to win.....and not.....thats gotta be our biggest in 30 years. I can't recall exactly, but on footytipping.com it shows you who has picked who as a percentage. This was high 90's to us, at least 95% if not 98%.
Not many times we'd ever be that strong of a favourite....and doubt we've lost one after being so overplayed.
It wasn't said on here...that I could see. But really was it such a surprise that it 'could' happen. Go back to the pre-match thread. Multiple posters, I think even including yourself, warned about it in the pre match thread. Many thought we were 'home and hosed'...they'd be among the most disappointed. Obviously, once they got to 40 odd points in front the players thought it as well...and that's when it will often come back to bite you on the bum.
'Favourites' in the first match of a season....is pretty dodgy in the first place. It's a new start for everyone, and some teams with an extra growth and development from the previous year may make a bit of a 'lie' as to 2024 form.
At the moment Richmond aren't woodenspooners, They're an undefeated top 4 side. ;) Ask Voss..."The ladder doesn't lie." :D :D
Worst loss Ive ever seen.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Lods on March 15, 2025, 08:49:28 pm
It wasn't even the worst loss I've seen in the last 12 months ;)
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Thryleon on March 15, 2025, 09:17:41 pm
It wasn't even the worst loss I've seen in the last 12 months ;)
which one did you think was worse?
Anecdotally, my memory is pretty good, and despite what happened for most of last season, even the Hawthorn loss didn't sting like this one because we had a few break down in game.
Adelaide?
Maybe but even that one wasn't because we played 3 quarters of uncompetitive footy it was a few errors and not capitalising with a last minute winner.
Collingwood? Twice?
Nope, they weren't worse. St. Kilda? Half our side was out and they were in form.
Gws? Another injury mess and we almost pinched it, but we're up early playing well enough to suggest we'd win.
Sydney? Grand finalists on their home deck.
Port? Nope missing H and the injury rot had started.
Doggies? No good.
Brisbane in the finals? Was a free hit. We didn't look likely heading in and they went on to win the flag.
Geelong? Yeah that stung a bit but they weren't that bad and we played dumb footy and again almost roared back into it.
Not one of those losses compares to the mess of Thursday.
I've thought about this long and hard. We've been in Richmond's shoes. Brave losses is all we gave, and the few wins we registered were against mid table sides who thought they were better than they are. Sure Sydney lost to Richmond last year. At the mcg. It stuffed them mentally and probably lost them the grand final, and gave Brisbane supreme confidence heading in. They have much better mental fortitude than we do.
The warning sign for this one, is that if Richmond are going to be where everyone thinks they will be this season, we are a bog average team.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Lods on March 15, 2025, 09:34:19 pm
The Hawthorn one was worse by a long way. Folks are losing their perspective based on their own expectations. They thought that we would win easily. They had it locked away. We didn't. All of a sudden we're a team full of no-hopers. Player deficiencies are being exaggerated. Haynes is the worst player ever to pull on a jumper (yet he's had 18 with 66% efficiency)
They've made a judgement that Richmond are a basket case. That they have made no advances over the off-season.
We dominated for a quarter. The game was still in the balance well into the last. But our system and structure failed us. :"Worst loss in years, or ever" is based purely on what people expected to happen. Folks might want to revisit the period 2002-7 to see what a real basket case is.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 15, 2025, 09:36:19 pm
The Hawthorn one was worse by a long way. Folks are losing their perspective based on their own expectations. They thought that we would win easily. They had it locked away. We didn't. All of a sudden we're a team full of no-hopers. Player deficiencies are being exaggerated. Haynes is the worst player ever to pull on a jumper (yet he's had 18 with 66% efficiency)
They've made a judgement that Richmond are a basket case. That they have made no advances over the off-season.
We dominated for a quarter. The game was still in the balance well into the last. But our system and structure failed us. :"Worst loss in years, or ever" is based purely on what people expected to happen. Folks might want to revisit the period 2002-7 to see what a real basket case is.
Sorry Lods, losing after being 41 point up against the wooden spooners with umpteen kids under 50 games goes to the top of the tree for me.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Lods on March 15, 2025, 09:53:11 pm
The Hawthorn one was worse by a long way. Folks are losing their perspective based on their own expectations. They thought that we would win easily. They had it locked away. We didn't. All of a sudden we're a team full of no-hopers. Player deficiencies are being exaggerated. Haynes is the worst player ever to pull on a jumper (yet he's had 18 with 66% efficiency)
They've made a judgement that Richmond are a basket case. That they have made no advances over the off-season.
We dominated for a quarter. The game was still in the balance well into the last. But our system and structure failed us. :"Worst loss in years, or ever" is based purely on what people expected to happen. Folks might want to revisit the period 2002-7 to see what a real basket case is.
Sorry Lods, losing after being 41 point up against the wooden spooners with umpteen kids under 50 games goes to the top of the tree for me.
That's the thing though. And it's where I'm having trouble following the logic. They're not the woodenspooners....they're the 2024 woodenspooners. We don't know what we played on Thursday...and we won't know for several weeks. We might be surprised. They may be as bad as we thought. Then again, they may not be. But anyone making that judgement now is guessing. The thing about youth is they will sometimes surprise because they don't know where the limits are. That was something we saw with Hawthorn last season.
Momentum is a huge thing in the modern game. Lose it and it can throttle you.
My only issue with the performance is that I didn't see the pressure and intensity. Things like multiple players in tackles. It's stuff we're capable of. We need to see it, especially this week. Otherwise the "worst performance ever" may be ahead of us.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 15, 2025, 09:58:22 pm
That's the thing though. And it's where I'm having trouble following the logic.
Im sorry, I cant help you with that.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Lods on March 15, 2025, 10:01:38 pm
Look I can't change folks opinions. We saw what we saw, and interpreted the result based on our own perspectives of watching the game over the years. I know for certain that there are dozens of results that concerned and disappointed me much more than this one...it's not even close. I think there is a very real sense of 'disappointment being tied to expectations.' If you'd pencilled this one in as a win, it will sting much more than if you considered the possibility of an upset. In the end what really matters is not what we think, it's what the players think...and what they do about it.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Lods on March 15, 2025, 10:05:51 pm
That's the thing though. And it's where I'm having trouble following the logic.
Im sorry, I cant help you with that.
Obviously not. ;) :D
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Macca37 on March 16, 2025, 12:47:06 am
Lods, you mention that we dominated for a quarter. Surely our inability to dominate for no more than that is simply a continuation of the form that has kept us rooted to the bottom half of the ladder for so many seasons.
An excuse offered for our mediocre form over the years relates to the high number of injuries we have had each pre-season causing players to miss training and resulting in their never being able to recover their form fully during the season. That excuse cannot be used this season.
With the return of Silvagni and Docherty, together with new blood added to the list, supporters could be excused for expecting a performance that would give them hope for the season.
I hoped we would win, but if we did not we would at least show promise. No wonder supporters are angry, the second half was an embarrassment. Some of the mistakes were almost comical - what you see when people are having a kick to kick session in a park.
I know that the club is under pressure following the number of complaints from supporters. Let us hope we do not have a repeat performance this week.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Thryleon on March 16, 2025, 08:23:53 am
You can say what you like about expectations heading into the game and the level of disappointment being commensurate with it, but as soon as we were 41 points up in the second quarter every single Carlton person would have expected us to at worst win by 20 from there despite being challenged unless we had a ridiculous turn of events.
That would be an improvement over what happened. The level of disappointment has nothing to do with pre game expectations. It's in game. That's the issue. Are they last years wooden spooners or this year's battlers that finish mid table? They won't be playing finals i don't think.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Lods on March 16, 2025, 08:24:51 am
Every year we start the season with high hopes. We think “This could be our year!”
We’ve been looking forward to this game all summer for a couple of reasons. 1) Richmond are hopeless… a basket case 2) We could not possibly have as bad a season injury wise as last year. So naturally expectations were high. Anything under a ten-goal win was not going to be satisfactory for many folks.
When it came to the crunch- 1) Richmond may not be as hopeless as we thought (that will be proven, or not, in coming weeks) 2) Newman goes down with a ‘seasoner’, then Jagger, then Elijah needs time away. There’s three who would no doubt have been round one selections. Charlie doesn’t get up, that’s four. Walsh has an interrupted pre-season. There are rumours all week that Harry isn’t 100% and may miss. All of that should be something that a team with good depth can cover. But things like the Hollands situation are the kind of distraction you don’t need going into the first game of the season.
There seem to be two issues with the result. The first revolves around skills. First games of the season often feature some scrappy disposal. Our disposal efficiency last season was around 73%. On Thursday night it was 65%. Our forward 50 efficiency was 38%. Our average last year was 49%. Those are things that can be improved upon, especially the forward 50 efficiency with a bit more structure and system. We had 65 inside 50s. That’s more than just about every other game we played last year, but strangely exactly the same as the corresponding game against Richmond. The difference was 12 goals rather than 9.
The second and more important issue is the fact that we have these lapses where our pressure and intensity drops off and we get multiple goals kicked against us. That’s the much bigger issue and that goes to the mental strength of the playing group. I’m not sure how you coach that because it goes to the character of the player. We will see in the coming weeks whether Thursday is the measure of this side. How they respond will tell you a bit about them individually and as a group.
Voss is now on shaky ground. We all know how this ends, and while injuries were a good ‘excuse’ for last season, it wont cut mustard this year.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Lods on March 16, 2025, 08:28:16 am
You can say what you like about expectations heading into the game and the level of disappointment being commensurate with it, but as soon as we were 41 points up in the second quarter every single Carlton person would have expected us to at worst win by 20 from there despite being challenged unless we had a ridiculous turn of events.
I didn't! I learnt on the 26th September 1970 that it's not over until it's over. ;)
Thry...it's all about expectations. I considered the possibility that if we weren't there at the start or had one of our lapses we could lose. As a result I'm disappointed...but not surprised. I'm looking forward to seeing how they respond.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LP on March 16, 2025, 08:32:22 am
I didn't! I learnt on the 26th September 1970 that it's not over until it's over. ;)
Yep, it's not just about luck anymore, there is a technical defect in the design process.
It's not just the players either.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 16, 2025, 08:36:43 am
We were terrible in the match sim agains the Saints I felt we were clinical and cohesive in the hit out against the Giants. We were abhorrent against Richmond. Does this mean we will come out all guns blazing on Thurs night? I doubt it but you never know, depends how deep the mental demons have dug in.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: kruddler on March 16, 2025, 08:36:50 am
Whether or not Richmond are a basket case or not will play out over the season and potentially justify some people concerns.
Reality is, that is somewhat irrelevent when you are expected to be a top side. Someone who is in their premiership window. You ultimately give up a 41 point lead and there is no obvious turning point (ie jnjury) and end up with a 56(?) point turnaround.
The fact it happened against last year's bottom side just adds an extra bit of sting to that.
Yes, it was one that said i was very uneasy about this match due to who was left out of the side and the fact the side picked itself based on injuries rather than talent/form. However, what happened once the match started should never have happened once we got the lead we did. Inability to put the team away is one thing. Inability to protect such big lead is another.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LP on March 16, 2025, 08:42:55 am
We were terrible in the match sim agains the Saints I felt we were clinical and cohesive in the hit out against the Giants.
Give it up, fans were sucked in by practice match rubbish, it's meaningless.
Nek minit!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Thryleon on March 16, 2025, 09:06:38 am
Spin spin spin spin spin.
We are a team aspiring for a flag and gave up a 41 point lead. Richmond could give the flag a nudge this year and id still be annoyed by the manner in which that game played out. For reference the GWS loss in Canberra was the most similar result to this from last season.
That was a failure for the same reasons but at least we had some horrific luck to go with that.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Lods on March 16, 2025, 09:25:10 am
We are a team aspiring for a flag and gave up a 41 point lead. Richmond could give the flag a nudge this year and id still be annoyed by the manner in which that game played out. For reference the GWS loss in Canberra was the most similar result to this from last season.
That was a failure for the same reasons but at least we had some horrific luck to go with that.
It's not spin. It's perspection and expectation. I understand why you're hurting a bit more than I am. Go back and read the pre-game thread.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 16, 2025, 09:33:39 am
Worst loss in 30 years according to Riley Beveridge from AFL.com Watched it again and it's more terrible second time around, the lack of football skills and nous coupled with zero idea about how to deliver the ball forward. So many contesting errors where we handed the ball back to Richmond with stupidity and lack of effort.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Lods on March 16, 2025, 09:54:04 am
Beveridge is just parroting social media. I'm sure the media will give a nice balanced perspective. ::) Avoid the footy shows this week. ;)
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: PaulP on March 16, 2025, 10:12:37 am
I think we managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, but hopefully it’s an early and not too costly wake up call. All the key numbers are in our favour. More : Shots on goal, Marks I50 Disposals I50’s Free kicks CP UCP
Less turnovers etc.
We should be embarrassed, but after 1 game the sky is not falling. The successful clubs like Hawthorn and Geelong are calm, measured and methodical in their decision making. We need to be the same.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: pinot on March 16, 2025, 10:42:46 am
I think we managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, but hopefully it’s an early and not too costly wake up call. All the key numbers are in our favour. More : Shots on goal, Marks I50 Disposals I50’s Free kicks CP UCP
Less turnovers etc.
We should be embarrassed, but after 1 game the sky is not falling. The successful clubs like Hawthorn and Geelong are calm, measured and methodical in their decision making. We need to be the same.
Line coaches did their job imo. Dominated the game just couldnt score small forwards are not up to it. The ball hit the grass plenty of times and the four useless midgets couldnt make it count.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Lods on March 16, 2025, 11:02:53 am
Line coaches did their job imo. Dominated the game just couldnt score small forwards are not up to it. The ball hit the grass plenty of times and the four useless midgets couldnt make it count.
The forward structure needs a bit of work. No Curnow and with Harry doing some rucking it lacked its main weapons. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the rumours were right and Harry wasn't 100%
We need to look at the small forwards and ditch a few of them for more medium types with a bit of a defensive edge. One is probably enough...although which one is the question.
Silvagni showed enough to end the backline experiment and keep him as the third tall. Open it up and create a few more avenues to goal rather than creating ugly packs 10-20 metres out.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LP on March 16, 2025, 11:21:37 am
We should be embarrassed, but after 1 game the sky is not falling. The successful clubs like Hawthorn and Geelong are calm, measured and methodical in their decision making. We need to be the same.
Perhaps they are that way because they accept the flaws in a game plan, review and revise tactics and expectations accordingly, they are also far less formulaic. You know I'm definitely no Scott or Mitchell booster, but they get credit for innovation, on and off the field.
We seem to be more of a blunt instrument, a sledgehammer, if we don't break through we just go with a bigger swing next time. It appears we aren't learning anything along the way.
Maybe that is the Voss weakness, perhaps he is a slow learner or too stubborn for his own good, perhaps it is those around him, in hindsight I think Ratts, Bolton and Teague or those around them were the same. It appears to be "a Carlton thing", maybe Cook isn't even enough to break the mould!
Last season I worried that the way we finished the season would empower the "Bad Old Carlton", the Carlton that through indifference thinks it can still buy it's way out of trouble, and my fear for opening round was that if we failed to deliver a stable result it would stoke the fires, it appears to be the case.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LP on March 16, 2025, 11:37:22 am
Silvagni showed enough to end the backline experiment and keep him as the third tall. Open it up and create a few more avenues to goal rather than creating ugly packs 10-20 metres out.
I was quite cynical through the pre-season but credit where it is due, in D50 SoJ did better than OK, not too bad at all for a 1st up effort. We still miss Newman though, badly!
I read some calling for SoJ to return to F50, but if Charlie returns any permanent presence in F50 is over for SoJ, fans need to accept it.
On F50, it appears to me we have wasted much of Kemp's early career stubbornly playing him as a vanilla defender, if he'd had 2 or 3 seasons under his belt by now our F50 would be in a much better place, and we should have also been running him more through the Midfield as the move that releases him from the KPP one on one. We aren't making use of Kemp's special attributes.
Nothing our F50 can do will fix players kicking the ball 10m beyond their reach, our basic disposal skills are substandard and have been for a long long time.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: PaulP on March 16, 2025, 11:54:43 am
Perhaps they are that way because they accept the flaws in a game plan, review and revise tactics and expectations accordingly, they are also far less formulaic. You know I'm definitely no Scott or Mitchell booster, but they get credit for innovation, on and off the field.
We seem to be more of a blunt instrument, a sledgehammer, if we don't break through we just go with a bigger swing next time. It appears we aren't learning anything along the way.
Maybe that is the Voss weakness, perhaps he is a slow learner or too stubborn for his own good, perhaps it is those around him, in hindsight I think Ratts, Bolton and Teague or those around them were the same. It appears to be "a Carlton thing", maybe Cook isn't even enough to break the mould!
Last season I worried that the way we finished the season would empower the "Bad Old Carlton", the Carlton that through indifference thinks it can still buy it's way out of trouble, and my fear for opening round was that if we failed to deliver a stable result it would stoke the fires, it appears to be the case.
It could be coaches, list, 1st round blues, a few moments / errors that were more costly than normal etc. Neither team were great.
This coach and this list (with some changes) showed in the back end of 2023 that they can play 4 quarters of tough, accountable, never say die football. I'm not exactly sure what's happened since then, but it's worthy sports science study for sure IMO.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 16, 2025, 11:58:04 am
Perhaps they are that way because they accept the flaws in a game plan, review and revise tactics and expectations accordingly, they are also far less formulaic. You know I'm definitely no Scott or Mitchell booster, but they get credit for innovation, on and off the field.
We seem to be more of a blunt instrument, a sledgehammer, if we don't break through we just go with a bigger swing next time. It appears we aren't learning anything along the way.
Maybe that is the Voss weakness, perhaps he is a slow learner or too stubborn for his own good, perhaps it is those around him, in hindsight I think Ratts, Bolton and Teague or those around them were the same. It appears to be "a Carlton thing", maybe Cook isn't even enough to break the mould!
Last season I worried that the way we finished the season would empower the "Bad Old Carlton", the Carlton that through indifference thinks it can still buy it's way out of trouble, and my fear for opening round was that if we failed to deliver a stable result it would stoke the fires, it appears to be the case.
It could be coaches, list, 1st round blues, a few moments / errors that were more costly than normal etc. Neither team were great.
This coach and this list (with some changes) showed in the back end of 2023 that they can play 4 quarters of tough, accountable, never say die football. I'm not exactly sure what's happened since then, but it's worthy sports science study for sure IMO.
And sports pyschology study. I will just add that since 2023, the game has gotten faster again and our team is slow, that's another factor IMO.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LP on March 16, 2025, 12:00:24 pm
This coach and this list (with some changes) showed in the back end of 2023 that they can play 4 quarters of tough, accountable, never say die football. I'm not exactly sure what's happened since then, but it's worthy sports science study for sure IMO.
It's not sustainable @PaulP, that game style can't get you through a full season, it never will.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: PaulP on March 16, 2025, 12:01:30 pm
And sports pyschology study. I will just add that since 2023, the game has gotten faster again and our team is slow, that's another factor IMO.
Yes I think so too.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: BlackRooster on March 16, 2025, 01:37:26 pm
There is losing and there is losing. This just made me sick to the stomach. Voss kept speaking of defence all summer, so were is this defence. Great move subbing Lord when (yes he was on the ground) Evans stays on, how??? How is this possible
Bottom six
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Baggers on March 16, 2025, 02:08:46 pm
Just watched the JSOS interview on the CFC website - well said and well done, Jack. Obviously p1ssed off and hurting and wouldn't be drawn into long season stuff - no silver lining fluff. Lost badly and that is all that mattered (to JSOS)... wonder if he'll give a blast to a few of his less committed team mates. JSOSs reaction and comments were 100% authentic. Leadership stuff.
Reminds me of that superb piece of rubbish saying I've heard the club mention - don't get too high or low. In other words don't be authentic, be beige, ignore your real feelings. If you're feeling ecstatic - moderate it, play it down rather (what utter BS) than celebrating and allow the floods of endorphins, serotonin, dopamine and so on to soak through your body and lift your mood and ambition and enjoyment of life/success. Conversely, if you're low or hurting - minimize it, play it down, be inauthentic and untrue to yourself and allow floods of the stress hormone cortisol is party.
Feeling up? Enjoy it, feed it, celebrate it... does the body and mind so much good but know it won't last but look forward to the next time it comes along and remember the hard work needed to create it. Feeling down/hurt? Acknowledge and validate it, don't ignore or minimize it... understand it then do something about, get help - it won't last.
Players, be authentic with your feeling like JSOS was (inspirational stuff JSOS - real pro, leadership example) - He was authentic and real... we could do with more of that kind of courageous honesty.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Adelaideblue on March 16, 2025, 02:11:36 pm
There is losing and there is losing. This just made me sick to the stomach. Voss kept speaking of defence all summer, so were is this defence. Great move subbing Lord when (yes he was on the ground) Evans stays on, how??? How is this possible
Bottom six
Yes Cooper Lord taken off, very hard to fathom ! ...... when subbed off 14 disposals and 6 tackles!
Not many of our guys sticking their tackles in that last quarter debacle (so Cooper's efforts missed)
Ab
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 16, 2025, 02:54:52 pm
There is losing and there is losing. This just made me sick to the stomach. Voss kept speaking of defence all summer, so were is this defence. Great move subbing Lord when (yes he was on the ground) Evans stays on, how??? How is this possible
Bottom six
Yes Cooper Lord taken off, very hard to fathom ! ...... when subbed off 14 disposals and 6 tackles!
Not many of our guys sticking their tackles in that last quarter debacle (so Cooper's efforts missed)
Ab
I reckon they just tried to get a cool head in Doc on.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 16, 2025, 03:01:39 pm
I think we managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, but hopefully it’s an early and not too costly wake up call. All the key numbers are in our favour. More : Shots on goal, Marks I50 Disposals I50’s Free kicks CP UCP
Less turnovers etc.
We should be embarrassed, but after 1 game the sky is not falling. The successful clubs like Hawthorn and Geelong are calm, measured and methodical in their decision making. We need to be the same.
Calm, measured, methodological is exactly what we needed from around HT. Despite having considerable experience, including under finals heat, we came up seriously short in those areas. My guess is that lack was on field and in the coaches box. Kind of a double whack effect.
I have a sense that composure and consistency will be our big challenges this year. Of course, the injury issue also plays a role.
We evidently have an easy start to the season. Let's hope the club can work through the related issues and bring intent, perseverance, and team composure v Hawks (no doubt they're feeling very cocky)
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Thryleon on March 16, 2025, 04:04:47 pm
Trying to find positives. We were 41 points up (unfortunately coughed it up stupidly).
Lucas had a decent first game.
Hopefully Haynes playing in front of a big crowd Thursday night for the first time at the G was just a bit over awed by the occasion (that's both negative and positive).
Jsos looked good. Back and forward. Better than Kemp. Perhaps that will allow us to release Kemp somewhere more useful once Charlie returns.
That's all i got. I can't think of anything else. Oh I suppose we got through unscathed is a positive.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: cookie2 on March 16, 2025, 04:26:23 pm
Just had a look at the match stats. We comfortably had the better of them in terms of I50s but couldn’t convert that into a winning margin. We need to create far more pressure inside 50. Our forwards need to step it up for starters.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LoveNavy on March 16, 2025, 05:50:02 pm
I reckon they just tried to get a cool head in Doc on.
Should have taken Evans off, Lord was doing ok and Evans was a passenger all game...
Lord could show the small fwds how to contest, apply pressure, and stick tackles. No idea about other fwd craft but geez keeping it i50 might be a good place to start. Lij type role???? Or is that a spot for Moir??? Like others, I'm unconvinced by Motlop, Frank, Fantasia
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 16, 2025, 07:02:23 pm
Worst loss in 30 years according to Riley Beveridge from AFL.com Watched it again and it's more terrible second time around, the lack of football skills and nous coupled with zero idea about how to deliver the ball forward. So many contesting errors where we handed the ball back to Richmond with stupidity and lack of effort.
I cant bring myself to watch it. I'm moving onto this week and praying for a miracle.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Lods on March 16, 2025, 07:11:35 pm
Worst loss in 30 years according to Riley Beveridge from AFL.com Watched it again and it's more terrible second time around, the lack of football skills and nous coupled with zero idea about how to deliver the ball forward. So many contesting errors where we handed the ball back to Richmond with stupidity and lack of effort.
I cant bring myself to watch it. I'm moving onto this week and praying for a miracle.
I reckon we should all do that.
We have a really tough month. We'll know pretty much how our season is shaping after the next three games.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 16, 2025, 07:31:09 pm
I cant bring myself to watch it. I'm moving onto this week and praying for a miracle.
I reckon we should all do that.
We have a really tough month. We'll know pretty much how our season is shaping after the next three games.
Baby steps, week by week, get their (and our confidence back). I think the whole organisation needs to take a breath, train hard, and turn up ready to rumble with the Hawks (there are rumours of coaches disagreeing fairly angrily in the coaches box).
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 16, 2025, 07:49:33 pm
Worst loss in 30 years according to Riley Beveridge from AFL.com Watched it again and it's more terrible second time around, the lack of football skills and nous coupled with zero idea about how to deliver the ball forward. So many contesting errors where we handed the ball back to Richmond with stupidity and lack of effort.
I cant bring myself to watch it. I'm moving onto this week and praying for a miracle.
Fair enough, we can't play any worse as that was rockbottom so there should be some improvement hopefully.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 16, 2025, 08:11:14 pm
I reckon they just tried to get a cool head in Doc on.
Should have taken Evans off, Lord was doing ok and Evans was a passenger all game...
Spot on.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Micky0 on March 16, 2025, 10:00:36 pm
We were 41pts up. No excuse to lose that game, we should’ve monstered and intimidated them from there but no, we stopped and fumbled and missed marks and kicks - inexcusable.
When you continually bomb that fking ball into the forward line, the coach has supposedly told you not to do that because it never works- well why not drag off the person continually doing it! Waste of ball use - the amount of i50’s we had for no reward is inexcusable
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Baggers on March 16, 2025, 10:24:18 pm
A brief period of masochism. I watched the game again with a few mates. Watching us fall apart when under enthusiastic heat was revealing.. Where are our tough blokes, blokes with mental hardness, leadership and discipline? Fair dinkum,, apart from Nick Newman I cannot think of any other bloke I'd want to be in the trenches with. Yet watching the Dawks, they seemed blessed with hard at i t types. Our niceness is palpable but not a handy ingredient in a gladiatorial sport. We need an alchemist as a senior coach to give our blokes a persistent tenacious hardness/mongrel.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: cookie2 on March 17, 2025, 09:17:45 am
Can we transmute base metals into gold?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Thryleon on March 17, 2025, 10:42:16 am
2 wins out of our last 10 games.
Very likely extending to 2 in 14.
Hope this turns quickly. Doubt it will, but the above shows that pining for Kennedy and owies isn't the answer.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: bobby on March 17, 2025, 11:33:21 am
A brief period of masochism. I watched the game again with a few mates. Watching us fall apart when under enthusiastic heat was revealing.. Where are our tough blokes, blokes with mental hardness, leadership and discipline? Fair dinkum,, apart from Nick Newman I cannot think of any other bloke I'd want to be in the trenches with. Yet watching the Dawks, they seemed blessed with hard at i t types. Our niceness is palpable but not a handy ingredient in a gladiatorial sport. We need an alchemist as a senior coach to give our blokes a persistent tenacious hardness/mongrel.
Tenacious / Hard / Mongrel. Maybe some 1-1 tackling drills with the coach and a video of basically any game the coach played. Something like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xh5N6yPa9U
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Baggers on March 17, 2025, 11:37:23 am
A different perspective. But one worth addressing, fleshing out and considering, I believe.
Things we have ample evidence for, over some years now. Our group is fragile, not mentally tough. Very nice, though. We have the embarrassing talent of establishing a strong lead then defending it or extending upon it with all the conviction and effectiveness of an over cooked noodle. A culture of head dropping when things don't go our way is too common, sad and embarrassing. Opposition club and supporters know and chuckle at our obvious vulnerabilities.
Whoever is working with our boys behind the scenes is doing an extremely good job at creating and encouraging psychologically aware, responsible and culturally outstanding citizens. The club initiatives around respect and inclusiveness are to be applauded. We're AFL leaders in this area with our outstanding initiatives. Inspiring corporate citizens.
However, there is a white line where all that must be bracketed. When we cross that white line on game day, it becomes a gladiatorial contest; a contest of mental resolve, toughness, fear educing hardness, endurance, mongrel persistence and even ruthlessness. A culture of uncompromising hunting the opposition is required, imperative. Winning every contest must be the single minded ethic. Who, behind the scenes at our club, is responsible for instilling and developing these young hearts and minds to embrace, understand and practice, over and over again, mental toughness? No-one it would seem.
That comment from Voss to the crowd at PP recently that we will lose at times is a white flag, a preparatory excuse and a way out for players... a totally unnecessary statement of the fckn obvious, a better and more productive comment would have been how any loss is intolerable but if it happens just watch our powerful resilience righting a wrong. That sets a standard to address the inevitable.
If I had my way, and as tiresome as this may sound, I would put this group through an appropriately adjusted and suitable for footballers Navy Seal fortnight of building strength of character. Interesting is that one of my best mates and I went through this, and he and I both have PTSD and are still here to talk about it... many mates aren't. Also interesting is that our instructor was one of Jocko Willink's early influences/trainers. We learned, in no uncertain ways, that the goal of any team is for all team members to be a leader, with relentless accountability, trust and discipline. I still mentor a few young males on this, to this day. Especially how to kick addiction in the @rse, embrace hardship and turn it into motivation. (please don't see any of this as a 'wonder of me' stuff. Nuh. If there's a mistake any human could make, I've probably made it but rather than beat myself up over it, I delved deep into the why... took ownership of my fckup, then made a decision to deal with it, honestly, authentically and deal with any associated pain or temptation to avoid or blame someone else - this is one of the reasons I find the comment 'don't get too high or too low' is to me just avoidance and fear in a pretty dress. Courage requires to go there, deeply... low? Why. Understand it and deal with it. High - enjoy it to the hilt... dealing with both extremes is growth, deep personal growth).
Personality wise, I notice some of these important skills in blokes like JSOS, Ollie (just needs better direction), Crippa, Walsh (shockingly underdone for the Tiggers game), Newman, Lord, Boyd & Cincotta. In our coaching ranks I see this in Hamill and to a lesser extent, Vossy - who seems to have lost some of his mongrel and healthy anger... becoming infected with nice/playing favourites? Better to be respected than liked, Vossy. As an aside I noticed when Vossy was talking about the injuries/loss of important players - Newman, Charles, Jagga and a couple of others, he neglected to mention Cinc... if he's got something against this bloke - drop it. He's valuable. Learn to detach, and strategize objectively. If you want consistent excellence, address the above - it works. Favourites, sentimentality and tempering yourself are just ways, in respect to leadership, just weakening yourself.
Just a few thoughts folks from a humble human who's had to perform and be performance reliable/excellent in horrible circumstances - but the life lessons have been invaluable.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 17, 2025, 01:37:27 pm
There are no excuses for being beaten by Richmond, players injured isn't on given the tigers had players like Prestia, Balta out....it gets worse everytime you analyze the loss. Kennedy and Owies out was always going to bite us short term and they looked good for their new teams but the proof of that trading exercise won't be known for a couple of seasons when Smith has had time to show his wares. Watched a bit of Sid Draper and hard not to be impressed as he came on as the sub and lit up the stat sheet real quick and I feel for Jagga Smith who is going to be under real pressure much like Paddy Dow was to justify the hype and effort to recruit him. Interesting from the recent draft that two mids from outside that top group in Reid and Lindsay had standout games and we would have had the picks to get those players had we not gone down the sell the farm path for pick 3. Hindsight maybe but not common sense...
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Baggers on March 17, 2025, 03:41:34 pm
Good to see Weiters rip into the players in a huddle after the game... loved it.
Crippa sedate during this, does this suggest he's a blue skies and fairy floss positives restricted leader, relying on performance only? I hope not. All good leaders have a spine of zero tolerance for ordinary and never hesitate to voice it, forcefully. Bravo and thank you, Weiters... and later JSOS in his stern, uncompromising words.
And while I'm at it... remember when we were insipid and the players went for an honesty session at Ed Curnow's place. The burning question for me then, and still, is why weren't the coaches involved? That says a great deal. Seems like a group begging for leadership and had to take things into their own hands.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 17, 2025, 04:06:09 pm
Good to see Weiters rip into the players in a huddle after the game... loved it.
Crippa sedate during this, does this suggest he's a blue skies and fairy floss positives restricted leader, relying on performance only? I hope not. All good leaders have a spine of zero tolerance for ordinary and never hesitate to voice it, forcefully. Bravo and thank you, Weiters... and later JSOS in his stern, uncompromising words.
And while I'm at it... remember when we were insipid and the players went for an honesty session at Ed Curnow's place. The burning question for me then, and still, is why weren't the coaches involved? That says a great deal. Seems like a group begging for leadership and had to take things into their own hands.
Brisbane 60 Carlton zero in last seasons prelim final and now this debacle vs Richmond.....if we lose to Hawthorn badly where do we go from there if the players cant respond? Dont want to hear about honesty sessions, holding hands, chanting mantras at Ed Curnow's place etc, what is the plan moving forward and if we have to get Cripps ripping into players what does that say about the playing groups mindset and ability to motivate themselves? and yes what are the coaches doing?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: kruddler on March 17, 2025, 04:58:53 pm
Good to see Weiters rip into the players in a huddle after the game... loved it.
Crippa sedate during this, does this suggest he's a blue skies and fairy floss positives restricted leader, relying on performance only? I hope not. All good leaders have a spine of zero tolerance for ordinary and never hesitate to voice it, forcefully. Bravo and thank you, Weiters... and later JSOS in his stern, uncompromising words.
And while I'm at it... remember when we were insipid and the players went for an honesty session at Ed Curnow's place. The burning question for me then, and still, is why weren't the coaches involved? That says a great deal. Seems like a group begging for leadership and had to take things into their own hands.
Anyone in high performance knows that if you get a rev up from the same person too often, it loses its touch. Best thing to do is spread around the 'rah rah' speech. So weiters got it this time. Newman or Doc might have had it last time. Cripps might have it next time.
As for why there was no coaches.....same as above i reckon. Hearing same thing from same people loses its touch.
What it shows me is that players realised they were underperforming, called themselves out on it and lifted.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Baggers on March 17, 2025, 05:06:55 pm
Good to see Weiters rip into the players in a huddle after the game... loved it.
Crippa sedate during this, does this suggest he's a blue skies and fairy floss positives restricted leader, relying on performance only? I hope not. All good leaders have a spine of zero tolerance for ordinary and never hesitate to voice it, forcefully. Bravo and thank you, Weiters... and later JSOS in his stern, uncompromising words.
And while I'm at it... remember when we were insipid and the players went for an honesty session at Ed Curnow's place. The burning question for me then, and still, is why weren't the coaches involved? That says a great deal. Seems like a group begging for leadership and had to take things into their own hands.
Brisbane 60 Carlton zero in last seasons prelim final and now this debacle vs Richmond.....if we lose to Hawthorn badly where do we go from there if the players cant respond? Dont want to hear about honesty sessions, holding hands, chanting mantras at Ed Curnow's place etc, what is the plan moving forward and if we have to get Cripps ripping into players what does that say about the playing groups mindset and ability to motivate themselves? and yes what are the coaches doing?
Exactamundo, EB1... everything seems so familiar and sadly predictable. Major issues: leadership and discipline. Any pressure game day and we resort to type: panicky disposals, bombing into forward line and just a bunch of clacker chasers. No authority. Hopefully Mr Wright steps in with some meaningful changes.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Baggers on March 17, 2025, 05:29:37 pm
Good to see Weiters rip into the players in a huddle after the game... loved it.
Crippa sedate during this, does this suggest he's a blue skies and fairy floss positives restricted leader, relying on performance only? I hope not. All good leaders have a spine of zero tolerance for ordinary and never hesitate to voice it, forcefully. Bravo and thank you, Weiters... and later JSOS in his stern, uncompromising words.
And while I'm at it... remember when we were insipid and the players went for an honesty session at Ed Curnow's place. The burning question for me then, and still, is why weren't the coaches involved? That says a great deal. Seems like a group begging for leadership and had to take things into their own hands.
Anyone in high performance knows that if you get a rev up from the same person too often, it loses its touch. Best thing to do is spread around the 'rah rah' speech. So weiters got it this time. Newman or Doc might have had it last time. Cripps might have it next time.
As for why there was no coaches.....same as above i reckon. Hearing same thing from same people loses its touch.
What it shows me is that players realised they were underperforming, called themselves out on it and lifted.
Nuh. This is not about rah rah speeches, kumbaya or similar nice sugar hits. Proof it that all that stuff didn't stick and sustain change. Our problems, evidenced over the past few years, go deeper than any simplistic, feelgood solution.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Thryleon on March 17, 2025, 05:42:32 pm
Why do our leaders have to do it?
Why aren't our bottom of the pile types doing it?
It's a mess. Half of them can't even play the game at the level.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Baggers on March 17, 2025, 07:00:50 pm
It's a mess. Half of them can't even play the game at the level.
Never underestimate the leadership potential of the 'bottom of the pile types.' The best teams have many leaders, some just need the right training and opportunity.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Baggers on March 17, 2025, 07:04:21 pm
A brief period of masochism. I watched the game again with a few mates. Watching us fall apart when under enthusiastic heat was revealing.. Where are our tough blokes, blokes with mental hardness, leadership and discipline? Fair dinkum,, apart from Nick Newman I cannot think of any other bloke I'd want to be in the trenches with. Yet watching the Dawks, they seemed blessed with hard at i t types. Our niceness is palpable but not a handy ingredient in a gladiatorial sport. We need an alchemist as a senior coach to give our blokes a persistent tenacious hardness/mongrel.
Tenacious / Hard / Mongrel. Maybe some 1-1 tackling drills with the coach and a video of basically any game the coach played. Something like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xh5N6yPa9U
There'll only ever be 1 Michael Voss the footballer, tough, skilful, ruthless and an absolute Kent. They broke the mold when they made him.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: laj on March 18, 2025, 05:45:52 am
A brief period of masochism. I watched the game again with a few mates. Watching us fall apart when under enthusiastic heat was revealing.. Where are our tough blokes, blokes with mental hardness, leadership and discipline? Fair dinkum,, apart from Nick Newman I cannot think of any other bloke I'd want to be in the trenches with. Yet watching the Dawks, they seemed blessed with hard at i t types. Our niceness is palpable but not a handy ingredient in a gladiatorial sport. We need an alchemist as a senior coach to give our blokes a persistent tenacious hardness/mongrel.
Masochism is putting it mildly...haha.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Baggers on March 18, 2025, 11:55:38 am
Tenacious / Hard / Mongrel. Maybe some 1-1 tackling drills with the coach and a video of basically any game the coach played. Something like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xh5N6yPa9U
There'll only ever be 1 Michael Voss the footballer, tough, skilful, ruthless and an absolute Kent. They broke the mold when they made him.
Now he needs to reconnect with those admirable qualities required to build a footy team consistently delivering those traits.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 18, 2025, 01:42:06 pm
There'll only ever be 1 Michael Voss the footballer, tough, skilful, ruthless and an absolute Kent. They broke the mold when they made him.
Now he needs to reconnect with those admirable qualities required to build a footy team consistently delivering those traits.
You cant teach what he has
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Micky0 on March 18, 2025, 05:44:33 pm
I think we all need The club to cut the crap with the whole they went to Ed’s house and suddenly everyone understood that oh they must work hard to win football games 🙄 like seriously over this nonsense. They’re professional athletes in a professional club / there is obviously some breakdown in comms amongst the coaches and the players - why is that? How on earth do you get 41 pts up and capitulate to a team of children? Pathetic.
ETA shouldn’t take a whipping in the media and by supporters to make them play better! Where’s the fking inner strength and leadership? If it’s not there now with who you’ve got then bloody replace them!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: PaulP on March 18, 2025, 06:05:19 pm
Just a friendly reminder that we spent most of last season in top 8, including sitting 2nd from rounds 14-20 inclusive. That's nearly 2 months near the end of the season in the top 2. There's an issue with finishing off our good work, whether in the last rounds of 2024, or in the 2nd half of the Richmond game. No doubt we all have our pet theories as to why we fall away late, but I think it's important to not over react, and not throw away some excellent foundations as we try to find out how to apply the finishing touches.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Lods on March 19, 2025, 12:22:02 am
I still think it all comes back to stability. Get close to you best side on the park on a consistent basis and everything else will fall into place
Structure, Support, Confidence, Skills, Pressure all are better with a group that play together on a regular basis.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: townsendcalling on March 19, 2025, 08:29:01 am
Top 6 goal kickers last year: Charlie, Harry, Owies, Cripps, E Hollands, Kennedy.......
Last one out, turn the light off!!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Thryleon on March 19, 2025, 08:53:01 am
Yeah its a bit of a shambles they didnt look at that. Although Id wager kennedy didnt score that many goals.
Just looked it up, 16 was his total. Not exactly a goal a game, but not far from it.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Baggers on March 19, 2025, 10:29:57 am
Now he needs to reconnect with those admirable qualities required to build a footy team consistently delivering those traits.
You cant teach what he has
I didn't say teach, I said reconnect. We know it's there, time for him to now reconnect, embrace and express with passion those traits. Unite his boys to be on the same page of fierce leadership and unwavering discipline.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 19, 2025, 10:39:19 am
I didn't say teach, I said reconnect. We know it's there, time for him to now reconnect, embrace and express with passion those traits. Unite his boys to be on the same page of fierce leadership and unwavering discipline.
We dont know that he hasn't been or is doing the above and our blokes just dont get it.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 19, 2025, 12:39:54 pm
I didn't say teach, I said reconnect. We know it's there, time for him to now reconnect, embrace and express with passion those traits. Unite his boys to be on the same page of fierce leadership and unwavering discipline.
We dont know that he hasn't been or is doing the above and our blokes just dont get it.
Voss was exceptional as a 17 year old, his contested work and skills were all natural imo and I'm not sure you can teach that will to impose yourself on the game and attack the footy like he did.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: LP on March 19, 2025, 12:45:18 pm
Voss was exceptional as a 17 year old, his contested work and skills were all natural imo and I'm not sure you can teach that will to impose yourself on the game and attack the footy like he did.
He had the nasty brutal edge that we lack, and he had it in spades, in the contest Voss reminded me of Dominator.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 19, 2025, 12:51:49 pm
Voss was exceptional as a 17 year old, his contested work and skills were all natural imo and I'm not sure you can teach that will to impose yourself on the game and attack the footy like he did.
He had the nasty brutal edge that we lack, and he had it in spades, in the contest Voss reminded me of Dominator.
Brutal is the word....
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: PaulP on March 19, 2025, 01:28:37 pm
They all have an identifiable hard / ruthless edge, some extend it beyond the attack on the footy, we seem to lack a similar type which is why I think Ollie Hollands stood out last week with his attack on the footy. Perhaps before his issues his brother Elijah might have been our most aggressive type, perhaps equal with Weiters.
One thing that stands out in that list, it's dominated by F50 types.
I sometimes deride our club as having a safe workspaces feel about it, I realise given the nature of AFL some might not agree, but relative to the rest of the competition I think it's a fair observation even if it is subjective.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: PaulP on March 19, 2025, 02:52:01 pm
Do you recall the difference Alex Silvagni made to our D50 despite being relatively limited as an AFL footballer, think of how he bettered Franklin, it obviously wasn't as a physical match.
I'm not trying to talk any players down, this is more about getting the right mix.
When Membrey, Stringer or Nankervis have a day against us, are they really "Better" players?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: PaulP on March 19, 2025, 03:39:15 pm
Do you recall the difference Alex Silvagni made to our D50 despite being relatively limited as an AFL footballer, think of how he bettered Franklin, it obviously wasn't as a physical match.
I'm not trying to talk any players down, this is more about getting the right mix.
When Membrey, Stringer or Nankervis have a day against us, are they really "Better" players?
I do recall Alex Silvagni being handy and underrated.
As a side note, I find it interesting that Voss is now into his 4th season as senior coach, and we have no "mini me" on the list. I would think that if he believed such a player was important, he would've asked for it by now, and his wish would not, I think, have been refused.
Also, I don't think he had these types of players in his 1st stint as a senior coach at the Lions, although I make this point with a low degree of confidence, because I can't remember back that far.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 1 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Richmond
Post by: Thryleon on March 19, 2025, 06:17:49 pm
Do you recall the difference Alex Silvagni made to our D50 despite being relatively limited as an AFL footballer, think of how he bettered Franklin, it obviously wasn't as a physical match.
I'm not trying to talk any players down, this is more about getting the right mix.
When Membrey, Stringer or Nankervis have a day against us, are they really "Better" players?
I do recall Alex Silvagni being handy and underrated.
As a side note, I find it interesting that Voss is now into his 4th season as senior coach, and we have no "mini me" on the list. I would think that if he believed such a player was important, he would've asked for it by now, and his wish would not, I think, have been refused.
Also, I don't think he had these types of players in his 1st stint as a senior coach at the Lions, although I make this point with a low degree of confidence, because I can't remember back that far.
The problem we have is that our game plan surrounds our better players. Nothing wrong with this, most plans tend to utilise their guns, but there is an element of lack of sustainability in our game play, and just poor execution that is indicative of tactical issues. Thing is, you can be a tactical dunce all the time, so the coach can wear some of the responsibilty for us being 41 points up, but he also has to wear the cough up that lead, and loss component (IMHO he reacted 30 mins in game too late compared to Mitchell last week against Sydney). FWIW, Sydney were storming back in, had kicked 4 in a row, and instead of sitting on his laurels after seeing Sicily taken out of the game by a defensive forward, he made an astute observation and put him forward in a tight game. the easy option is to do nothing and grind out the game.
Last week, Voss and the MC failed in that regard. JSOS should have gone forward before the game slipped away, and swapped with Kemp. That lever should have been pulled at 3/4 time if not earlier. Instead it waited until we fell behind, but the damage was already done by then as the Tigers had kicked 10 of the previous 11 goals and were very much on top. I made a lengthy post about momentum being king in todays game, not necessarily tactics.
That is a coaching issue, not recognising in game when its his turn to make a tactical adjustment to create a circuit breaker, thinking that Docherty in Lord out was enough. That is directly contributable to our loss. I understand his mentality, he thought we would win anyway without pulling that lever, but the reality is, that he thought wrong, and he and his team should really have identified that earlier. thing is, I think we swung JSOS forward and left Kemp down there, so we dont know if the change would have made a difference, but we simply crowded our forwardline which is antithesis of scoring. You need it to be open. Its a defensive tactic to flood forward, and then rely on a free, a stoppage, a hack kick (which is what our numbskulls are most proficient at) to the opposition to generate a score. Thats not winning a game of footy, thats playing to maximise your chances and satistics.
You play to win the stat sheet, and you play like.... Ange Postecoglous Tottenham side... Where did Voss spend his summer again?
Smart football. we see it far too infrequently. When you are 40 points up, you have the mental strength position. The best way to win that match from then on is not necessarily out score, or out play. Its starve the opposition of the ball. Make the ground small if your fitness is a problem, or open it up and kick it longer sticking to the boundaries. You dont have to take the game on in that position. It leads to scores against as you get burnt turning it over when everyone is too seperated. You use field position to create the conditions requiring your opposition to play precise football. Richmond are a chaos team. You play fast, you play into their hands. Did we slow the game down? Nope. We kicked long and fast inside 50. Dumb, dumb, dumb dumb. We will repeat this stupidity against Hawthorn.