Princes Park => Robert Heatley Stand => Topic started by: crashlander on March 14, 2025, 12:51:14 am
Title: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: crashlander on March 14, 2025, 12:51:14 am
Another Thursday night. :( :( I don't know if I can handle another game like that. We've played some bad football in the last 20+ years, but that effort against Richmond must approach the worst. A performance like that and we'll get pounded.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: BluePhantom on March 14, 2025, 07:01:57 am
The Hollywood Hawks vs the Bollywood Blues
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 14, 2025, 07:16:03 am
Hawks by 100
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Lods on March 14, 2025, 08:46:07 am
We wont expect to win. Nobody will expect us to win. That's good. We will ;)
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 14, 2025, 10:11:23 am
We wont expect to win. Nobody will expect us to win. That's good. We will ;)
Love your optimism, sorry to say youre gonna cry.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: LP on March 14, 2025, 10:22:43 am
To win we have to innovate in a way that suits our list, it's hard to see as our recent history more resembles a Lego type build than sudden rise from the ashes.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: ratlice on March 14, 2025, 10:44:33 am
I'm tipping Voss out by season's end!!!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 14, 2025, 10:52:46 am
Well I've seen some horrid losses in my time during some real bleak periods in the history of the CFC but last nights jumped straight to the top of the tree by a long way. Losing to the wooden spooner with a team full of kids after being 41 points up takes the cake. Only the CFC could do that, 16 other teams would have smashed Rich last night. Its very sad to say but as the losses mount, EB was right and Voss will go.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 14, 2025, 11:09:35 am
Well I've seen some horrid losses in my time during some real bleak periods in the history of the CFC but last nights jumped straight to the top of the tree by a long way. Losing to the wooden spooner with a team full of kids after being 41 points up takes the cake. Only the CFC could do that, 16 other teams would have smashed Rich last night. Its very sad to say but as the losses mount, EB was right and Voss will go.
I like Voss and want him to succeed but last night as you say was about as low and as bad we have been for ages and thats saying something. We are either going to hit back hard, smash Hawthorn and reignite the hopes of the fanbase or lose and set ourselves on a path of misery and depression for the rest of the season. Players and coaches need to respond like a good proud club should....
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 14, 2025, 11:17:30 am
Out McGovern Haynes Motlop Evans In Young Curnow Moir Fantasia Doc to HB Ollie to a wing Persist with SOS down back and Kemp up fwd Lord or Campo the sub
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 14, 2025, 11:42:33 am
Well I've seen some horrid losses in my time during some real bleak periods in the history of the CFC but last nights jumped straight to the top of the tree by a long way. Losing to the wooden spooner with a team full of kids after being 41 points up takes the cake. Only the CFC could do that, 16 other teams would have smashed Rich last night. Its very sad to say but as the losses mount, EB was right and Voss will go.
I like Voss and want him to succeed but last night as you say was about as low and as bad we have been for ages and thats saying something. We are either going to hit back hard, smash Hawthorn and reignite the hopes of the fanbase or lose and set ourselves on a path of misery and depression for the rest of the season. Players and coaches need to respond like a good proud club should....
As bad as last night was, equally unacceptable is fans above the race screaming obscenities and vulgar taunts at the players and staff. I thought we were better than that, clearly not.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 14, 2025, 11:48:43 am
Oh almost forgot, we got through a game without an injury, that's a positive, yay!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Lods on March 14, 2025, 11:57:32 am
We wont expect to win. Nobody will expect us to win. That's good. We will ;)
Love your optimism, sorry to say youre gonna cry.
Nah! I don't cry over football I'd be a wreck if I did. The level of disappointment is related to the level of expectation. If you look at the pre-match I suggested the result was a possibility. Disappointed, but not surprised. I don't have a lot of faith in this side but...is the likelihood of us beating Hawthorn much different to Richmond beating us.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 14, 2025, 12:05:50 pm
Nah! I don't cry over football I'd be a wreck if I did. The level of disappointment is related to the level of expectation. If you look at the pre-match I suggested the result was a possibility. Disappointed, but not surprised. I don't have a lot of faith in this side but...is the likelihood of us beating Hawthorn much different to Richmond beating us.
I think I read somewhere someone said our performances can be exciting or deplorable. Last night was simply the latter. I dont think there's a Carlton supporter who didn't think at least once "we could lose this week".
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: rocky on March 14, 2025, 12:25:49 pm
The outs for me are clear cut. Haynes, Motlop, Evans. Guys like Cottrell (absolutely shocking), McGovern (ditto), Williams & Fogarty, get another week to improve their output and because of course we never really drop more than 3 in a week. Have to hope those 4 mentioned can improve from horrific to average games next week. I'm going to suggest something a bit unlikely but I'd move Acres to HB to cover for Haynes exclusion. A bit of robbing Peter to pay Paul but I really think the backline is our worst line and we need a bit of stability and effort. Ollie can go to the wing to cover Acres. As far as replacing the 2 small forwards. Who cares. Whoever does anything in the magoos practice match today. Can only be an improvement as they can't be any worse.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: LP on March 14, 2025, 01:34:07 pm
Out McGovern Haynes Motlop Evans In Young Curnow Moir Fantasia
FMD that's depressing reading, are you trying to boost the suicide rate?
That might be the only bad is better MC in AFL/VFL history!
Two farken cardboard cut outs would have been more useful than Gov and Haynes. As for Motlop, I would play one short to save the embarrassment.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: pinot on March 14, 2025, 01:41:24 pm
Play both Jack and Kemp in the backline or play Kemp as a high half forward in Elijah Hollands role because he was a good conduit last year and dont have one this year. Moir looked good at VFL praccy today but his determination to defend and win contests goes amiss. But looks extremely classy with ball in hand.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: LP on March 14, 2025, 01:41:37 pm
Out McGovern Haynes Motlop Evans In Young Curnow Moir Fantasia Doc to HB Ollie to a wing Persist with SOS down back and Kemp up fwd Lord or Campo the sub
Id bring in White for Evans and start him...cant be any worse than Evans, Motlop or Fantasia, Id also play Lemmey instead of Young. If we are moving deckchairs then id prefer some shiny new ones... Id leave L. Campo on a wing and persist with him, I was a bit disappointed in his leg speed, the tiger cub Campbell I think it was burnt him off with the ball and he also made a few errors later in the game but I thought he showed promise and enough to suggest he will be a player.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: LP on March 14, 2025, 01:48:33 pm
McGovern is b0rked, that missed set shot post final siren did his head in, not sure who has been taking charge of pre-season finishing / goal kicking.
Harry looked lost, McGovern seemed so scared of having a shot he stayed 80m away from the arc.
Jelly legs is contagious, FFS, somebody invent a vaccine! :o
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: LP on March 14, 2025, 01:50:28 pm
Id leave L. Campo on a wing and persist with him, I was a bit disappointed in his leg speed, the tiger cub Campbell I think it was burnt him off with the ball and he also made a few errors later in the game but I thought he showed promise and enough to suggest he will be a player.
I'll give the 1st gamer the benefit of the doubt, most burn all their tickets early.
When everybody was fresh and up and about early in the game he looked OK, it doesn't get faster than the 1st Qtr of Rnd 1 on a warm night.
I think he just ran out of legs from being hyper.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 14, 2025, 02:00:27 pm
McGovern is b0rked, that missed set shot post final siren did his head in, not sure who has been taking charge of pre-season finishing / goal kicking.
Harry looked lost, McGovern seemed so scared of having a shot he stayed 80m away from the arc.
Jelly legs is contagious, FFS, somebody invent a vaccine! :o
I would have rucked Harry and got him into the game and saved Cripps from having to ruck and work his ar$e off. Cripps might have been handy resting at FF and maybe sneaking a goal or two and maybe both him and TDK down there with Harry rucking might have made the Tigers think a bit more and change what they were doing. Harry wasnt terrible down forward but he wasnt great either playing on Blight and Miller and the delivery was the usual bomb it on his head and hope for the best rubbish. Newman being out is a bigger loss than most think, he is efficient with the ball and adds a bit of calm. Haynes is the opposite imo, average by foot to the point he cant hit targets or kicks the ball too wide forcing teammates to have to find the ball and then getting trapped and the fumbling of Haynes both with his groundwork and marking is something you dont associate with Newman.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Lods on March 14, 2025, 02:03:03 pm
I reckon if Fantasia is fit, he will be in. Voss mentioned him in the presser. He said we'll probably get Curnow back and "Fantasia might be back. We'll have to see how they trained"
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: LP on March 14, 2025, 02:05:13 pm
Newman being out is a bigger loss than most think, he is efficient with the ball and adds a bit of calm. Haynes is the opposite imo, average by foot to the point he cant hit targets or kicks the ball too wide forcing teammates to have to find the ball and then getting trapped and the fumbling of Haynes both with his groundwork and marking is something you dont associate with Newman.
What Haynes playing for us highlights is the way a bit of surrounding leg speed can cover all sorts of ills with dodgy disposals, and now he doesn't have that cover.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Thryleon on March 14, 2025, 02:09:50 pm
this is going to be horrific.
Dont believe me? you don't watch football. Hawthorn have played 1 bad game since I want to say May of last year. They play with a foundation of effort, and a system. Their players arent amazing, but they make them look good.
We have played about 3 good one since then and have probably turned up for a half in most of the others.
This is going to be terrible.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: pinot on March 14, 2025, 02:24:01 pm
All our games should be played on Sundays so our weekends dont get screwed up
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: kruddler on March 14, 2025, 02:57:09 pm
Dont believe me? you don't watch football. Hawthorn have played 1 bad game since I want to say May of last year. They play with a foundation of effort, and a system. Their players arent amazing, but they make them look good.
We have played about 3 good one since then and have probably turned up for a half in most of the others.
This is going to be terrible.
Ranking the teams from most wanting to play to do not want to play at all.....Hawks are #1 on the do not want to play list.
We don't match up well against them. Their strengths are our weaknesses.
We will not put in a good effort this week and unless Charlie kicked 8 and singlehandedly wins us the game.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 14, 2025, 03:12:04 pm
Dont believe me? you don't watch football. Hawthorn have played 1 bad game since I want to say May of last year. They play with a foundation of effort, and a system. Their players arent amazing, but they make them look good.
We have played about 3 good one since then and have probably turned up for a half in most of the others.
This is going to be terrible.
Ranking the teams from most wanting to play to do not want to play at all.....Hawks are #1 on the do not want to play list.
We don't match up well against them. Their strengths are our weaknesses.
We will not put in a good effort this week and unless Charlie kicked 8 and singlehandedly wins us the game.
TDK too needs to have a monster game, he was one of our better players but his opposite number in Nankervis was also very good for the Tigers and TDK needs to humble Meek who is a key driver of that Hawks midfield group. Im expecting Charlie and Harry to have big games too, havent given up hope of a win but its hard to get inspired after last nights debacle.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Thryleon on March 14, 2025, 03:29:36 pm
^^
Forget winning. Move the goalposts to 4 quarters of decent footy.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Lods on March 14, 2025, 05:51:05 pm
McGovern is b0rked, that missed set shot post final siren did his head in, not sure who has been taking charge of pre-season finishing / goal kicking.
Harry looked lost, McGovern seemed so scared of having a shot he stayed 80m away from the arc.
Jelly legs is contagious, FFS, somebody invent a vaccine! :o
I would have rucked Harry and got him into the game and saved Cripps from having to ruck and work his ar$e off. Cripps might have been handy resting at FF and maybe sneaking a goal or two and maybe both him and TDK down there with Harry rucking might have made the Tigers think a bit more and change what they were doing. Harry wasnt terrible down forward but he wasnt great either playing on Blight and Miller and the delivery was the usual bomb it on his head and hope for the best rubbish. Newman being out is a bigger loss than most think, he is efficient with the ball and adds a bit of calm. Haynes is the opposite imo, average by foot to the point he cant hit targets or kicks the ball too wide forcing teammates to have to find the ball and then getting trapped and the fumbling of Haynes both with his groundwork and marking is something you dont associate with Newman.
Cripps at FF with the strategy of bombing it in and him getting mauled more than he does in the guts, fark that.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: crashlander on March 14, 2025, 07:53:46 pm
What can we do to improve for next week? A good question after something so diabolical. [1] Will White wasn't outstanding the VFL practice match, but he has more idea than Motlop does at the moment, Frankie Evans has to go back; he was invisible. Fantasia in? I can't believe I'm considering that, but he has been good in the pre-season. Fog? He isn't back to his best yet, but any means. [2] Charlie is a must, even half fit. He moves about and can do the impossible. Kemp? Probably should make way, after yesterday. I'd like him to play, but we need more smarts from him. Moir? Not a 4-quarter player, but he can also do the unusual. [3] We badly need to work on our ruck setup. if we are predictable to our opponents, we're half way to losing. I'd certainly have H spend more time against Hawthorn in the ruck, as it might get him into the game. [4] If we have the same lack of endeavour and lack of desire, we're lost. Really need the win at all cost play we had back in 2023. [5] Have we been thinking of ways of disrupting Hawthorn's ball movement? I hope so. [6] What to do about Haynes? The obvious choice is Young, but he hasn't really been that impressive. He simply wouldn't be as poor as Haynes was.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: blueday on March 14, 2025, 08:13:21 pm
We need to absolutey belt the living hell out of the Hawks next week. Unsociable, pain the arse prick ball.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 14, 2025, 08:17:18 pm
What can we do to improve for next week? A good question after something so diabolical. [1] Will White wasn't outstanding the VFL practice match, but he has more idea than Motlop does at the moment, Frankie Evans has to go back; he was invisible. Fantasia in? I can't believe I'm considering that, but he has been good in the pre-season. Fog? He isn't back to his best yet, but any means. [2] Charlie is a must, even half fit. He moves about and can do the impossible. Kemp? Probably should make way, after yesterday. I'd like him to play, but we need more smarts from him. Moir? Not a 4-quarter player, but he can also do the unusual. [3] We badly need to work on our ruck setup. if we are predictable to our opponents, we're half way to losing. I'd certainly have H spend more time against Hawthorn in the ruck, as it might get him into the game. [4] If we have the same lack of endeavour and lack of desire, we're lost. Really need the win at all cost play we had back in 2023. [5] Have we been thinking of ways of disrupting Hawthorn's ball movement? I hope so. [6] What to do about Haynes? The obvious choice is Young, but he hasn't really been that impressive. He simply wouldn't be as poor as Haynes was.
Gov and Haynes absolutely need to be dropped this week, anything else and we are just playing blokes on reputation instead of form. If those two said to each other before the game "let put in stinkers tonight", they couldn't have done a better job if they tried. As poor a game as I gave seen from two EXPERIENCED defenders in the one side.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: pinot on March 14, 2025, 08:47:33 pm
Hawthorn and GWS last week show you need quality small forwards. ..and because we dont have them need a much better system moving the ball forward.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: rocky on March 14, 2025, 08:57:46 pm
Young playing next week is not the answer. 1. He's still no good and 2. Dawks have a midget forward line with only Chol as the lone tall. We need speed to beat these flogs. Oh and about a 200% increase in form
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 14, 2025, 09:03:09 pm
Young playing next week is not the answer. 1. He's still no good and 2. Dawks have a midget forward line with only Chol as the lone tall. We need speed to beat these flogs. Oh and about a 200% increase in form
Haw are elite ball users, around the ground and in front of goal, EOS. Conversely, we are the absolute opposite.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: rocky on March 14, 2025, 09:05:52 pm
Young playing next week is not the answer. 1. He's still no good and 2. Dawks have a midget forward line with only Chol as the lone tall. We need speed to beat these flogs. Oh and about a 200% increase in form
Haw are elite ball users, around the ground and in front of goal, EOS. Conversely, we are the absolute opposite.
Yeah, that too.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 14, 2025, 09:10:45 pm
Young playing next week is not the answer. 1. He's still no good and 2. Dawks have a midget forward line with only Chol as the lone tall. We need speed to beat these flogs. Oh and about a 200% increase in form
Haw are elite ball users, around the ground and in front of goal, EOS. Conversely, we are the absolute opposite.
Their pace and carry is also something we will struggle with, they dont stop and run in waves and even a quick team like the bombers can't contain them tonight. The small ball forward line is also awkward to match up on and I was happy to see Boyd play in the VFL and do ok so losing a tall or two down back might help us.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 14, 2025, 09:23:06 pm
Haw are elite ball users, around the ground and in front of goal, EOS. Conversely, we are the absolute opposite.
Their pace and carry is also something we will struggle with, they dont stop and run in waves and even a quick team like the bombers can't contain them tonight. The small ball forward line is also awkward to match up on and I was happy to see Boyd play in the VFL and do ok so losing a tall or two down back might help us.
Sure, but if they were quick and turned the footy over like we do, they be as screwed as us. The thing is they hit target and kick straight for goal more often than not.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Thryleon on March 14, 2025, 10:24:15 pm
What can we do to improve for next week? A good question after something so diabolical. [1] Will White wasn't outstanding the VFL practice match, but he has more idea than Motlop does at the moment, Frankie Evans has to go back; he was invisible. Fantasia in? I can't believe I'm considering that, but he has been good in the pre-season. Fog? He isn't back to his best yet, but any means. [2] Charlie is a must, even half fit. He moves about and can do the impossible. Kemp? Probably should make way, after yesterday. I'd like him to play, but we need more smarts from him. Moir? Not a 4-quarter player, but he can also do the unusual. [3] We badly need to work on our ruck setup. if we are predictable to our opponents, we're half way to losing. I'd certainly have H spend more time against Hawthorn in the ruck, as it might get him into the game. [4] If we have the same lack of endeavour and lack of desire, we're lost. Really need the win at all cost play we had back in 2023. [5] Have we been thinking of ways of disrupting Hawthorn's ball movement? I hope so. [6] What to do about Haynes? The obvious choice is Young, but he hasn't really been that impressive. He simply wouldn't be as poor as Haynes was.
Gov and Haynes absolutely need to be dropped this week, anything else and we are just playing blokes on reputation instead of form. If those two said to each other before the game "let put in stinkers tonight", they couldn't have done a better job if they tried. As poor a game as I gave seen from two EXPERIENCED defenders in the one side.
Not Gov.
He wasn't great but he's never woeful he's just not living up to the paypacket and people's expectations.
Haynes was putrid.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 14, 2025, 10:29:50 pm
Gov and Haynes absolutely need to be dropped this week, anything else and we are just playing blokes on reputation instead of form. If those two said to each other before the game "let put in stinkers tonight", they couldn't have done a better job if they tried. As poor a game as I gave seen from two EXPERIENCED defenders in the one side.
Not Gov.
He wasn't great but he's never woeful he's just not living up to the paypacket and people's expectations.
Haynes was putrid.
I saw a snippet from David King, he stated Gov had 8 intercepts and 14 disposals but 3 clangers resulted in 3 goals, that's the ball game right there. Either way you look at it, I know its only round 1 but I dont think we will make the 8 let alone contend.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Thryleon on March 14, 2025, 10:30:53 pm
He wasn't great but he's never woeful he's just not living up to the paypacket and people's expectations.
Haynes was putrid.
I saw a snippet from David King, he stated Gov had 8 intercepts and 14 disposals but 3 clangers resulted in 3 goals, that's the ball game right there. Either way you look at it, I know its only round 1 but I dont think we will make the 8 let alone contend.
Assuming those stats are correct. Let's say gov did cost us 3 goals. But what about the 8 intercepts? Did that not save us potentially 8 shots on goal? Do the math and you'll find that gov is more of a plus than a negative.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Adelaideblue on March 15, 2025, 08:13:46 am
Older players can take some weeks into the season to get up to steam. Lets not judge Nick Haynes to harshly yet, but trust that a little of that AllAustralian ability is still with him.
Ab
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Adelaideblue on March 15, 2025, 08:19:22 am
Older players can take some weeks into the season to get up to steam. Lets not judge Nick Haynes to harshly yet, but trust that a little of that AllAustralian ability is still with him.
Ab
Our backs were under enormous pressure. In the second half Tigers "ran" and "worked" in numbers and our guys didn't match them with intensity or team work.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: dodge on March 15, 2025, 11:01:10 am
Partly because we kept giving them the ball and we were out of position.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Thryleon on March 15, 2025, 11:15:37 am
Older players can take some weeks into the season to get up to steam. Lets not judge Nick Haynes to harshly yet, but trust that a little of that AllAustralian ability is still with him.
Ab
im normally the first one to give old blokes a pass, but his mechanical movements suggest he's physically cooked and its effected him mentally where he was unable to execute basic skills.
That tells me he hasn't learned to play within his limitations which is what has found him on the scrap heap to begin with.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: tonyo on March 15, 2025, 11:48:01 am
Unfortunately, we have no elite ball users in our midfield. They send hack kicks into the forward line and more often than not it suits the opposition rather than our side.
Jagga Smith was going to help fix that. Well, not this year......
Also, we had 65 inside 50s on Thursday for 9 goals. And I lost count of the number of marks Richmond took in their defensive 50.
Some things for this week.
(1) Tell Harry to stop wrestling, he is no good at it - instead just put his arms in the air. He'll either mark it, get a free kick, or at least create a crumb. (2) Bring Moir in immediately. We have tried 3 crap small forwards a lot, and it just does not work. (3) Put Doc behind the ball. They need another cool head back there to support Weiters. (4) Our half-forward line is all wrong, it is too small. The ball gets whipped out of there far too easily. McKay CHF so he can get some grabs on the wings, Curnow lurking in the forward 50, and Moir supplying leads. (5) See if we can hit a handball and a kick at training this week. Skill level in the second half was about U16 standard. (6) Matt Carroll in for Haynes. Apart from Saad, our back 6 are slower than statues, and the Hawks can whip that in spades (And where's Boyd?)
Unfortunately, I just don't think we are ready for the Hollywood Hawks at the minute. We are honestly staring at a 0-4 start......
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Professer E on March 15, 2025, 12:08:59 pm
Send a message and drop gov, can't remember his last decent game and he's been a perennial underachiever. I'd seriously consider Carroll for the role, faster and more mobile, and ok form in twos. Swap Kemp for SoS.... Simply too slow in defence. I'd play Moir for Frank, even if it's only as a sub and Motlop needs to be dropped to find form and told to get serious or fark off
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 15, 2025, 02:04:15 pm
Unfortunately, we have no elite ball users in our midfield. They send hack kicks into the forward line and more often than not it suits the opposition rather than our side.
Jagga Smith was going to help fix that. Well, not this year......
Also, we had 65 inside 50s on Thursday for 9 goals. And I lost count of the number of marks Richmond took in their defensive 50.
Some things for this week.
(1) Tell Harry to stop wrestling, he is no good at it - instead just put his arms in the air. He'll either mark it, get a free kick, or at least create a crumb. (2) Bring Moir in immediately. We have tried 3 crap small forwards a lot, and it just does not work. (3) Put Doc behind the ball. They need another cool head back there to support Weiters. (4) Our half-forward line is all wrong, it is too small. The ball gets whipped out of there far too easily. McKay CHF so he can get some grabs on the wings, Curnow lurking in the forward 50, and Moir supplying leads. (5) See if we can hit a handball and a kick at training this week. Skill level in the second half was about U16 standard. (6) Matt Carroll in for Haynes. Apart from Saad, our back 6 are slower than statues, and the Hawks can whip that in spades (And where's Boyd?)
Unfortunately, I just don't think we are ready for the Hollywood Hawks at the minute. We are honestly staring at a 0-4 start......
Boyd played in the VFL and did ok I thought, he would be straight in if I was picking the team. Its about picking players who give effort and will bleed for the jumper and thats who I would pick. Haynes is an intercept defender and thats a position we already had cover for, cheating with him at CHB wont work, his disposal isnt good enough to be rebounding the ball and I agree on Carroll who can use the footy. Bombers and Hawks both play that left footed halfback/wings with decent distribution skills and with Newman out we cant have Haynes bringing the ball out of defense.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Adelaideblue on March 15, 2025, 02:27:33 pm
---------- (1) Tell Harry to stop wrestling, he is no good at it - instead just put his arms in the air. He'll either mark it, get a free kick, or at least create a crumb.
No key forward however skilful will consistently take many marks if :- a). The ball is just bombed into the 50 m arc b). The area is clogged up with other Carlton forwards also flying for the mark or dragging their opponents into the area.
Tell me: - Has football changed that much that forwards no longer lead and demand the ball? Has football changed that much that coaches don't encourage a key forward like Harry or Charlie to tell other forwards to stay out of the area and thus keep those extra backs out.
Ab
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Blue Moon on March 15, 2025, 04:08:48 pm
We have all seen this game before, we will come out with low energy, Hawthorn will get a lead, Carlton will pretend to have a go, Hawthorn will skip away in the end.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: pinot on March 15, 2025, 05:12:08 pm
---------- (1) Tell Harry to stop wrestling, he is no good at it - instead just put his arms in the air. He'll either mark it, get a free kick, or at least create a crumb.
No key forward however skilful will consistently take many marks if :- a). The ball is just bombed into the 50 m arc b). The area is clogged up with other Carlton forwards also flying for the mark or dragging their opponents into the area.
Tell me: - Has football changed that much that forwards no longer lead and demand the ball? Has football changed that much that coaches don't encourage a key forward like Harry or Charlie to tell other forwards to stay out of the area and thus keep those extra backs out.
Ab
Its incredible we put so many players in our forward 50 leaving no leading lanes. You always want to kick long to Harry or Charlie when one on one but our small forwards are not good enough to take advantage of marking spills so why block their leading lanes
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: LP on March 15, 2025, 05:21:17 pm
We have all seen this game before, we will come out with low energy, Hawthorn will get a lead, Carlton will pretend to have a go, Hawthorn will skip away in the end.
Extend that out to the season, start slow, build momentum, become AFL Darlings again, dont win enough games to make the 8.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Baggers on March 15, 2025, 08:21:32 pm
Unfortunately, we have no elite ball users in our midfield. They send hack kicks into the forward line and more often than not it suits the opposition rather than our side.
Jagga Smith was going to help fix that. Well, not this year......
Also, we had 65 inside 50s on Thursday for 9 goals. And I lost count of the number of marks Richmond took in their defensive 50.
Some things for this week.
(1) Tell Harry to stop wrestling, he is no good at it - instead just put his arms in the air. He'll either mark it, get a free kick, or at least create a crumb. Hate to say it but H needs more ticker, more passion and must learn to impose himself on the game... presently? Finessing... being 'nice.' (2) Bring Moir in immediately. We have tried 3 crap small forwards a lot, and it just does not work. (3) Put Doc behind the ball. They need another cool head back there to support Weiters. (4) Our half-forward line is all wrong, it is too small. The ball gets whipped out of there far too easily. McKay CHF so he can get some grabs on the wings, Curnow lurking in the forward 50, and Moir supplying leads. (5) See if we can hit a handball and a kick at training this week. Skill level in the second half was about U16 standard. (6) Matt Carroll in for Haynes. Apart from Saad, our back 6 are slower than statues, and the Hawks can whip that in spades (And where's Boyd?)
Unfortunately, I just don't think we are ready for the Hollywood Hawks at the minute. We are honestly staring at a 0-4 start......
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 15, 2025, 08:40:57 pm
Unfortunately, we have no elite ball users in our midfield. They send hack kicks into the forward line and more often than not it suits the opposition rather than our side.
Jagga Smith was going to help fix that. Well, not this year......
Also, we had 65 inside 50s on Thursday for 9 goals. And I lost count of the number of marks Richmond took in their defensive 50.
Some things for this week.
(1) Tell Harry to stop wrestling, he is no good at it - instead just put his arms in the air. He'll either mark it, get a free kick, or at least create a crumb. (2) Bring Moir in immediately. We have tried 3 crap small forwards a lot, and it just does not work. (3) Put Doc behind the ball. They need another cool head back there to support Weiters. (4) Our half-forward line is all wrong, it is too small. The ball gets whipped out of there far too easily. McKay CHF so he can get some grabs on the wings, Curnow lurking in the forward 50, and Moir supplying leads. (5) See if we can hit a handball and a kick at training this week. Skill level in the second half was about U16 standard. (6) Matt Carroll in for Haynes. Apart from Saad, our back 6 are slower than statues, and the Hawks can whip that in spades (And where's Boyd?)
Unfortunately, I just don't think we are ready for the Hollywood Hawks at the minute. We are honestly staring at a 0-4 start......
I still think our biggest problem is lack of leg speed, we are too slow, get caught easy and then rush a disposal which misses the target or gets turned over.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Thryleon on March 16, 2025, 11:18:44 am
They're going to murder us on the rebound.
Hawthorn are one of the best teams scoring off kick ins. If we don't take our chances we are in all sorts. They got beaten for clearances and inside 50's against essendon and still won.
Their small forwards are slippery, exactly the types that get off the chain against us.
30 degrees and clear weather forecast.
Doesn't bode well for us.
Expect vossy to get out coached again.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: LP on March 16, 2025, 11:46:18 am
I still think our biggest problem is lack of leg speed, we are too slow, get caught easy and then rush a disposal which misses the target or gets turned over.
Somewhat correct, we get caught, but if you force yourself to suffer through the replay, you'll see our blokes travelling 3, 4 or 5 steps with the footy before being rundown.
The speed isn't the fundamental problem there, it's an inability to see and hit a target that stops them pulling the trigger on a disposal, without panic hit up a target a step or two earlier and we would be away.
I mentioned after Opening Round that the ball use of the teams was nothing short of spectacular, not just the efficiency but the speed of disposal and decision making. Those teams weren't riding bumps and offloading weak disposals, the ball was won and gone before the opposition can even react. If it was just one team you could call it an anomaly but it was all four opening round teams showing it, we don't. For me it's a big change in the speed and skill level that we seem to have completely missed or misread as a tactic.
Right now, we'd be better off to work towards a Malthouse grind game, create stoppage after stoppage around the boundary line and leave opposition no space to work into. It's ugly to watch but it's our best chance of a result at this time, BigH and Charlie will of course hate it but that is our Midfield / Stoppage strength and we need to implement it to diminish or take away our major weakness.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Baggers on March 16, 2025, 11:55:16 am
Bring a sustained and brutal hunting to our game against the Dawks and the tide can quickly turn. Then to maintain that brutal hunting culture.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: LP on March 16, 2025, 11:58:14 am
Bring a sustained and brutal hunting to our game against the Dawks and the tide can quickly turn. Then to maintain that brutal hunting culture.
There was a fair bit of brutality needed to sustain that level, I don't think our list has the right mix of players to become uncomfortable enough for opponents.
I suspect our list would lose a game of chicken to ensure everyone goes home safe and sound, we've looked that way for some time now, and I think the opposition know it, they know we blink.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 16, 2025, 12:47:27 pm
I didn't see or read anything about the VFL game, who warranted a call up to come in?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: PaulP on March 16, 2025, 01:00:18 pm
Play both Jack and Kemp in the backline or play Kemp as a high half forward in Elijah Hollands role because he was a good conduit last year and dont have one this year. Moir looked good at VFL praccy today but his determination to defend and win contests goes amiss. But looks extremely classy with ball in hand.
I had hopes for Moir. Sounding like a Damien Cupido / Troy Menzel type. The last thing we need.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: pinot on March 17, 2025, 07:04:50 pm
Play both Jack and Kemp in the backline or play Kemp as a high half forward in Elijah Hollands role because he was a good conduit last year and dont have one this year. Moir looked good at VFL praccy today but his determination to defend and win contests goes amiss. But looks extremely classy with ball in hand.
I had hopes for Moir. Sounding like a Damien Cupido / Troy Menzel type. The last thing we need.
Some of our blokes getting regular games are not much better. Saads defending past 12 months has been diabolical. Way too loose
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Thryleon on March 17, 2025, 07:24:33 pm
I had a think about this week. Last week's effort was so bad, that if we come out and thump hawthorn by 100 points I'll be even more annoyed about last week.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 17, 2025, 07:58:21 pm
I had a think about this week. Last week's effort was so bad, that if we come out and thump hawthorn by 100 points I'll be even more annoyed about last week.
😂
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: LP on March 17, 2025, 07:58:58 pm
I had a think about this week. Last week's effort was so bad, that if we come out and thump hawthorn by 100 points I'll be even more annoyed about last week.
Very true, but it won't be half as depressing as being thumped by 100pts, because there won't be any spin capable of hiding the truth!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Lods on March 18, 2025, 09:18:14 am
I've no idea what will happen I have no expectations. I don't know how good they'll be in 2025 I've no idea how good (or bad) we'll be in 2025 As a result I won't be surprised by the result. ;)
Seriously though, this will be a tough ask. A loss like last week when we expected an easy time,willl have a fair bit of second guessing taking place. We have to have the focus there and attack for the start and maintain an intensity and pressure otherwise they'll run all over us. Our best is good enough, but we were a long way from that after quarter time last week...we've been a long way from that for some time. It's a difficult period. There is every chance we could be 0-4 in the next month. It'd be good to pick up a 'W' in that period just to give us a kick start. Otherwise, we'll be playing catchup and while Brisbane showed those poor starts can be overcome finals would be a faint possibility and the ramifications of missing would mean a fair bit of turmoil. In fact it could be 'sayonara' to premiership hopes with this group.
At the very least this week we probably need to see effort....and hopefully a bit better ball use.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: PaulP on March 18, 2025, 10:17:13 am
The season's not over till it's over. Teams can and have come back from poor starts. Not sure if it's my imagination or actual reality, but I'm noticing a mini trend in recent times, where some teams have, generally speaking, contrasting first and second halves of the season : one half of indifferent form and scratching out a few wins, the other half great form and mostly wins.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Lods on March 18, 2025, 10:50:40 am
The season's not over till it's over. Teams can and have come back from poor starts. Not sure if it's my imagination or actual reality, but I'm noticing a mini trend in recent times, where some teams have, generally speaking, contrasting first and second halves of the season : one half of indifferent form and scratching out a few wins, the other half great form and mostly wins.
I guess it would be better to start slow and finish strongly rather than the way we played 2024. But we need to be in a position where we haven't given up too much of a start that we fall short.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: PaulP on March 18, 2025, 10:52:24 am
I guess it would be better to start slow and finish strongly rather than the way we played 2024. But we need to be in a position where we haven't given up too much of a start that we fall short.
I agree.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: northernblue on March 18, 2025, 12:42:26 pm
It’s ok, two wins on the trot and most of us will be back feeling the navy blue love…
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Thryleon on March 18, 2025, 01:03:19 pm
Statistically, if you go 0-2 you miss finals.
I have always thought that this is a rubbish trend, as there are 24 games played across the season, and generally speaking, its a pattern and an indicator of how good your preseason was, rather than a premonition of anything, but the consistency in it is generally pretty sound.
This is the tip though: https://www.afl.com.au/news/1089967/history-against-collingwood-magpies-brisbane-lions-as-early-0-2-hole-proves-hard-to-overcome
Quote
Since 2000, only 20 of the 114 teams who have made an 0-2 start to a season have gone on to play finals. Only three of those have reached the Grand Final; the Pies fell just short in the 2018 decider and Sydney did it twice (in 2006 and 2014), but neither club was able to go all the way.
Brisbane reversed a trend, but are they an outlier or not?
Thats the question on everyones lips.
I think you have to ignore Brisbane. Effectively having the Gabba, means they get an artificial leg up that can be overcome here particularly when you view their home record, where Carlton do not. We lost a game at the G. Not earth shattering, but the The psychology behind it is huge.
They didnt call it the gabbatoir for nothing. they probably have a massive win percentage there in recent years.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: tonyo on March 18, 2025, 03:02:08 pm
Forecast for Thursday evening is a fair bit of rain.
We are the worst in the wet, and Hawks are the best.
A win will be a minor miracle.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: pew2 on March 18, 2025, 04:42:54 pm
long bomb into F50 been failing us for years and yet coaching panel has not change this style for 25 season (opposition find this do PREDICTABLE ) joke
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 18, 2025, 04:46:45 pm
It’s ok, two wins on the trot and most of us will be back feeling the navy blue love…
Trust is the problem NT, you just cant trust the team from week to week...they could rise to the challenge and beat the Hawks and then get knocked over by the mediocre Dogs minus Bont the following week.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: cookie2 on March 18, 2025, 05:00:31 pm
It’s ok, two wins on the trot and most of us will be back feeling the navy blue love…
Trust is the problem NT, you just cant trust the team from week to week...they could rise to the challenge and beat the Hawks and then get knocked over by the mediocre Dogs minus Bont the following week.
Unfortunately so true.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 18, 2025, 05:29:39 pm
Despite all the noise, despite all the anger, despite the embarrassment, despite all the theories and rumours, I'm just gonna chill and simply think of it as one bad game at the very start of a very long season. Nothing more nothing less. I dont know that I can bring myself to go own Thurs night but I'll reset my mind, think of the season as starting this week and hope for the best. Go Blues.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Baggers on March 18, 2025, 06:12:38 pm
Out of left field and grist for the mill of discussion, I think.
One of the great motivators to lift spirits and give all players on the paddock a good squirt of dopamine is reward for effort. Humbly, I suggest one very real way we can beat the Dawks is simple scoreboard pressure... in other words, efficient forward efforts resulting in goals, not points. Accuracy in front of goals resulting in six pointers puts the pressure back on the opponent, and encourages team mates.
With so little between most teams at present, deadly accuracy in front of goals is a weapon. BUT our mids must choose the best leading option, not dropping the aggott on H's and Charles' heads. And H, take a handful of intensity, work hard and throw your weight around pills. Charles - work! Make stuff happen. Lead. Show some mongrel. Unsettle those Dawk defenders. As for our small forwards (flattering to call them that) - work hard making yourselves targets for those up the field. Motlop... learn to back out of trouble and alter your lines - your habit of running straight into tackles is sh*t.
Conversely, with our defenders hunting and hurting the Dawks forwards, this, at best creates pressure and even, hopefully a little doubt. And run off them, give them an altered focus - defending. Kemp, with an injection of mongrel, needs to go back.
Just thoughts.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: cookie2 on March 18, 2025, 07:05:12 pm
Charlie looks likely, an important inclusion. We must capitalise on our I50s.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 18, 2025, 07:41:03 pm
Who would be surprised if the Dawks beat us by, say, 5+ goals, possibly more, many more. (my guess, more than 90% of us).
Who would be surprised if we beat the Dawks? (My guess, less than 10% of us).
I think we can win as it's a two horse race but it's never about rebound wins it's about the consistency afterwards and if we can sustain the effort needed to be a good team you can trust. I'm expecting our best players to show some leadership and put up a much better effort.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Lods on March 19, 2025, 10:07:34 am
If we don't come out with an intensity and pressure it will be an indictment, and any criticism fully deserved. The question will be how long we can sustain that pressure.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 19, 2025, 10:11:06 am
Who would be surprised if the Dawks beat us by, say, 5+ goals, possibly more, many more. (my guess, more than 90% of us).
Who would be surprised if we beat the Dawks? (My guess, less than 10% of us).
I think we can win as it's a two horse race but it's never about rebound wins it's about the consistency afterwards and if we can sustain the effort needed to be a good team you can trust. I'm expecting our best players to show some leadership and put up a much better effort.
I listened to Hird on TV last night talk about how we could win (and thought we could): - Outnumber - Tackle numbers and Pressure (increase numbers and ganging up on oppo players (showed how Coll double and triple teamed oppo this week compared to the GWS game). Must take away Haw's space and time by outnumbering them at the contest. Coll tackle diff went from -20 to +26.
- Win the contested footy and clearance which is our one wood.
- Locate after the contest. New term being used by commentators lately which I think means understand where the oppo is at all times. Set up to not allow Haw to just walk through the lines. Too many of our blokes get drawn to the contest leaving the too many free in space.
I found this quite interesting, Hird and Rory Sloan gave good insights.
ALot of the above came down to on field leaders directing traffic (as you suggested EB).
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Baggers on March 19, 2025, 10:31:23 am
I think we can win as it's a two horse race but it's never about rebound wins it's about the consistency afterwards and if we can sustain the effort needed to be a good team you can trust. I'm expecting our best players to show some leadership and put up a much better effort.
I listened to Hird on TV last night talk about how we could win (and thought we could): - Outnumber - Tackle numbers and Pressure (increase numbers and ganging up on oppo players (showed how Coll double and triple teamed oppo this week compared to the GWS game). Must take away Haw's space and time by outnumbering them at the contest. Coll tackle diff went from -20 to +26.
- Win the contested footy and clearance which is our one wood.
- Locate after the contest. New term being used by commentators lately which I think means understand where the oppo is at all times. Set up to not allow Haw to just walk through the lines. Too many of our blokes get drawn to the contest leaving the too many free in space.
I found this quite interesting, Hird and Rory Sloan gave good insights.
ALot of the above came down to on field leaders directing traffic (as you suggested EB).
In other words, become the hunters. Fierce, unrelenting, hunters.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Baggers on March 19, 2025, 10:32:51 am
If we don't come out with an intensity and pressure it will be an indictment, and any criticism fully deserved. The question will be how long we can sustain that pressure.
Exactly. How long. We are the pin-up boys for going to sleep for at least one qtr in just about every game.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: DJC on March 19, 2025, 10:42:31 am
I think we can win as it's a two horse race but it's never about rebound wins it's about the consistency afterwards and if we can sustain the effort needed to be a good team you can trust. I'm expecting our best players to show some leadership and put up a much better effort.
Last week’s result confirmed that no team is guaranteed a win regardless of the opposition.
We won’t win if we repeat the inexplicable skill errors and poor decision-making of last week. Hopefully, that was an aberration and we’ll see AFL standard footy from everyone who runs out tomorrow night. If we can achieve that, we’re in with a good chance.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Baggers on March 19, 2025, 11:57:11 am
I think we can win as it's a two horse race but it's never about rebound wins it's about the consistency afterwards and if we can sustain the effort needed to be a good team you can trust. I'm expecting our best players to show some leadership and put up a much better effort.
Last week’s result confirmed that no team is guaranteed a win regardless of the opposition.
We won’t win if we repeat the inexplicable skill errors and poor decision-making of last week. Hopefully, that was an aberration and we’ll see AFL standard footy from everyone who runs out tomorrow night. If we can achieve that, we’re in with a good chance.
Agree, but we must get bang for our buck; we must get reward for effort. I have absolutely no doubt that had we have been more efficient in front of goal against the Tiggers we'd have got the choccies... we won most metrics but were horribly inefficient which sapped system and confidence.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 19, 2025, 12:36:33 pm
I think Charlie will help Harry be better and we will get some better conversion. As always it's our midfield winning the clearances and Sam Walsh could be a key driver after a slow start last week. Cripps will get a lot of attention so I expect Walsh to lift. I'm not expecting our small forwards to contribute much and anything they contribute will be a bonus, they might be better just staying out of the way and leaving some space for Charlie and Harry to operate in.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: cookie2 on March 19, 2025, 12:41:04 pm
Hopeful but far from confident.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: LP on March 19, 2025, 12:50:10 pm
Dawks are playing up to the AFL / AFL media about how badly treated the Wiz is, expect it to be Free Kick Hawthorn all night long!
Our fans should hold up "Free Kick Hawthorn" banners as the starting siren sounds, and never let up!
Wiz will get rewarded for excessive exhaling in his vicinity, while Cripps will have his head ripped off in stoppages and it'll be play on!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: DJC on March 19, 2025, 01:27:00 pm
Last week’s result confirmed that no team is guaranteed a win regardless of the opposition.
We won’t win if we repeat the inexplicable skill errors and poor decision-making of last week. Hopefully, that was an aberration and we’ll see AFL standard footy from everyone who runs out tomorrow night. If we can achieve that, we’re in with a good chance.
Agree, but we must get bang for our buck; we must get reward for effort. I have absolutely no doubt that had we have been more efficient in front of goal against the Tiggers we'd have got the choccies... we won most metrics but were horribly inefficient which sapped system and confidence.
I would include that under skill errors and poor decision-making Shane.
What’s worse for momentum sapping, missing a sitter after a well-executed build up or handpassing/kicking to an opponent for a gimme goal?
How about a good chain of possessions for a deep inside 50 that comes straight back out?
One thing that must happen is making sure that our water joeys haven’t been filling their bottles with our players’ bath water. I suspect that there was a significant volume of that swallowed during the quarter time break last week.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: kruddler on March 19, 2025, 03:10:48 pm
I think we can win as it's a two horse race but it's never about rebound wins it's about the consistency afterwards and if we can sustain the effort needed to be a good team you can trust. I'm expecting our best players to show some leadership and put up a much better effort.
I listened to Hird on TV last night talk about how we could win (and thought we could): - Outnumber - Tackle numbers and Pressure (increase numbers and ganging up on oppo players (showed how Coll double and triple teamed oppo this week compared to the GWS game). Must take away Haw's space and time by outnumbering them at the contest. Coll tackle diff went from -20 to +26.
Honestly, i think this is a problem that will work against us.
Tigers used their run to take advantage of any outnumbers.
When we went to double team players, they shot out the handball to the free runner and they were off to the races.
Hawks are very good on the run and spread and overlap. We are slow and if we are overly aggressive it will come back to bite us in spades against the hawks.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Lods on March 19, 2025, 03:17:14 pm
The Hawks were beaten at stoppages in their win over Essendon last Friday, prompting Mitchell to declare the way they won “not sustainable” post game.
Carlton still won the clearance battle despite its disastrous loss to Richmond, and Mitchell is factoring it into his preparation for this week.
“It’s certainly one of the areas we’re looking at, we lost clearance by nearly 20 last week,” he said.
“Everyone has been pretty hard on Carlton but they won the inside 50 count by 25, won time in forward half by more than any other team in the round and managed to lose the game.
“They got a lot right but they just weren’t able to finish it. We don’t think Carlton are a reflection of that single game, it’s still early in the season.”
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: DJC on March 19, 2025, 03:47:45 pm
The Hawks were beaten at stoppages in their win over Essendon last Friday, prompting Mitchell to declare the way they won “not sustainable” post game.
Carlton still won the clearance battle despite its disastrous loss to Richmond, and Mitchell is factoring it into his preparation for this week.
“It’s certainly one of the areas we’re looking at, we lost clearance by nearly 20 last week,” he said.
“Everyone has been pretty hard on Carlton but they won the inside 50 count by 25, won time in forward half by more than any other team in the round and managed to lose the game.
“They got a lot right but they just weren’t able to finish it. We don’t think Carlton are a reflection of that single game, it’s still early in the season.”
Mitchell is right, we should have won that game comfortably but, as someone pointed out in the pre-game thread, the team that kicks the most goals usually wins.
We can't afford not to capitalise on our inside 50s, apart from reward for effort and limiting Hawthorn's rebound from defence, scoreboard pressure can appear as an extra player on the field.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: LordLucifer on March 19, 2025, 04:54:33 pm
The Hawks were beaten at stoppages in their win over Essendon last Friday, prompting Mitchell to declare the way they won “not sustainable” post game.
Carlton still won the clearance battle despite its disastrous loss to Richmond, and Mitchell is factoring it into his preparation for this week.
“It’s certainly one of the areas we’re looking at, we lost clearance by nearly 20 last week,” he said.
“Everyone has been pretty hard on Carlton but they won the inside 50 count by 25, won time in forward half by more than any other team in the round and managed to lose the game.
“They got a lot right but they just weren’t able to finish it. We don’t think Carlton are a reflection of that single game, it’s still early in the season.”
Mitchell is right, we should have won that game comfortably but, as someone pointed out in the pre-game thread, the team that kicks the most goals usually wins.
We can't afford not to capitalise on our inside 50s, apart from reward for effort and limiting Hawthorn's rebound from defence, scoreboard pressure can appear as an extra player on the field.
Statistically maybe, but I didnt see us looking like a team that was cutting our opposition to shreds, and was far too easy to score against.
Ignore Mitchell's comments for a moment. He has called up CJ back to the team. Whats his go?
Rebound 50's (he is VERY good at it). Of course he wants us to flood forward, and then counter punch, so he is encouraging us to "do it again" so he can rope a dope.
IMHO, we need to do the opposite. Turn it into a stoppage game, and play more precise footy. Feck around with it, and make Hawthorn chase the ball over the park. Their strength is rebound running and quick ball movement. Starve them of the ball, make them chase it whilst we "hold the line" for want of a better idea.
We need to play the opposite of fast football. The problem I see is that our skills are also quite deplorable so this wont work for us.
I see no way we win this game, particularly if the deck is wet.
Hawthorn by 40 points.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: rocky on March 19, 2025, 06:02:43 pm
Forecast is for wind and rain. Conditions which usually impact on a teams skillset. Our skillset was horrific last week. Imagine how bad we are this week. Whorethorn by 60+
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: rocky on March 19, 2025, 06:33:10 pm
So after the worst effort in 30 years we make 1 change. Charlie in and Evans out FMD
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Professer E on March 19, 2025, 06:49:20 pm
Mac-Godawful and Haynes should buy lottery tickets tonight, very very lucky Perform tomorrow or faaaark off. Yep, we have the most conservative, risk averse MC of any sporting team on the planet.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Lods on March 19, 2025, 06:53:27 pm
I actually don't mind it. The MC have put it on the players. It's an opportunity for 'redemption'. Players will hopefully understand that another meek performance will not be acceptable. We'll learn a bit about a few tomorrow night.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Professer E on March 19, 2025, 07:01:12 pm
Fine. Redeem or clean out your locker. No more BS, line has to be drawn. Put up or fark off.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Baggers on March 19, 2025, 07:09:54 pm
Not surprised. MC true to form, conservative with questionable trust and fear of boldness.
Tall in for a small out, in wet slippery conditions. Goodonya.
Really pleased to see Doc in the starting 22, in the forward line!!! Love it. I was shouting at the TV last week... "put Doc up forward and sub Motlop!" He has natural smarts around goal and would be a headache for any mid sized defender.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: PaulP on March 19, 2025, 07:11:13 pm
I actually don't mind it. The MC have put it on the players. It's an opportunity for 'redemption'. Players will hopefully understand that another meek performance will not be acceptable. We'll learn a bit about a few tomorrow night.
Yes, I'm not really a fan of using omission as a punitive measure, after one solitary game. I like the idea you hear from some coaches that players get a block of games to find their place in the best 22. If you are going to be consistent with dropping players who did not play well, 2/3 of that team would be out.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: pertz on March 19, 2025, 07:29:10 pm
I actually don't mind it. The MC have put it on the players. It's an opportunity for 'redemption'. Players will hopefully understand that another meek performance will not be acceptable. We'll learn a bit about a few tomorrow night.
Yes, I'm not really a fan of using omission as a punitive measure, after one solitary game. I like the idea you hear from some coaches that players get a block of games to find their place in the best 22. If you are going to be consistent with dropping players who did not play well, 2/3 of that team would be out.
I would have brought in Moir at a minimum. We need to inject some pace...NOW
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 19, 2025, 08:05:00 pm
My Heart says Blues by a bit My Head says Hawks by lots
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: PaulP on March 19, 2025, 08:08:11 pm
My Heart says Blues by a bit My Head says Hawks by lots
I don't think we will win, but hopefully we can play 4 solid quarters and earn back a little respect and self belief.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: pinot on March 19, 2025, 08:58:05 pm
Efficiency inside 50 Defending Rebound 50
Small Forwards and High half forwards need to pull their finger out.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: crashlander on March 19, 2025, 09:15:58 pm
Our line-up for this week: B: [2] Lachlan Cowan [23] Jacob Weitering [4] Oliver Hollands HB: [42] Adam Saad [11] Mitch McGovern [1] Jack Silvagni C: [13] Blake Acres [9] Patrick Cripps [21] Lucas Camporeale HF: [15] Sam Docherty [10] Harry McKay [17] Brodie Kemp C: [8] Lachie Fogarty [30] Charlie Curnow [46] Matthew Cottrell R: [12] Tom De Koning [5] Adam Cerra [29] George Hewett Int: [36] Cooper Lord [18] Sam Walsh [26] Nick Haynes [6] Zac Williams [3] Jesse Motlop
Em: [33] Lewis Young [43] Ashton Moir [44] Francis Evans
There are a few guys who should buy a tatts ticket after last week. Nick Haynes, probably more than any other. I just hope we've thought about our defensive unit and aimed to have a proper match-up against all the Hawthorn forwards, because they don't have a lot of height down there. I wouldn't have named Haynes because I don't think he has a match-up, irrelevant to how bad he was last week. Nor do they have a lot of height in defence. I would be playing a defensive forward on Sicily, and playing through him to keep him accountable. Our small forwards have to compete and do something significant this week, as they were missing last week.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: kruddler on March 19, 2025, 09:59:30 pm
So after the worst effort in 30 years we make 1 change. Charlie in and Evans out FMD
Have you looked at the players available? Or lack of players available.
Young is probably the unluckiest, but it's a bit like shuffling the deck chairs on the titanic.
Hawks play a smallball forward line so less of a priority including another taller defender I would have thought, I might have been inclined to include Boyd for this game even though he has been light on for match practice.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: LordLucifer on March 19, 2025, 10:13:51 pm
IN: C.Curnow
OUT: F.Evans (Omitted)
Gee whiz, the players must be shaking in their boots now in the knowledge that if they put in a poor effort, they will be dropped to the seconds.
:o ::)
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: DJC on March 20, 2025, 08:20:41 am
Not surprised. MC true to form, conservative with questionable trust and fear of boldness.
Tall in for a small out, in wet slippery conditions. Goodonya.
Really pleased to see Doc in the starting 22, in the forward line!!! Love it. I was shouting at the TV last week... "put Doc up forward and sub Motlop!" He has natural smarts around goal and would be a headache for any mid sized defender.
I was shouting at the TV last week, “Why did you sub Doc on?!!”
He will be a headache for our defenders if he doesn’t improve his ball use …
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Professer E on March 20, 2025, 09:11:02 am
JSoS in defence this week is the dumbest selection of '25, he'll still be trying catch the whorks smalls an hour after the game finishes.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Baggers on March 20, 2025, 09:38:48 am
Not surprised. MC true to form, conservative with questionable trust and fear of boldness.
Tall in for a small out, in wet slippery conditions. Goodonya.
Really pleased to see Doc in the starting 22, in the forward line!!! Love it. I was shouting at the TV last week... "put Doc up forward and sub Motlop!" He has natural smarts around goal and would be a headache for any mid sized defender.
I was shouting at the TV last week, “Why did you sub Doc on?!!”
He will be a headache for our defenders if he doesn’t improve his ball use …
One of the reasons I like him up forward - he not only likes a goal, but will provide excellent leadership for our aimless forward line... and won't be available in the midfield or backline to handball it to opponents for easy goals ;D
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: DJC on March 20, 2025, 11:08:53 am
One of the reasons I like him up forward - he not only likes a goal, but will provide excellent leadership for our aimless forward line... and won't be available in the midfield or backline to handball it to opponents for easy goals ;D
It used to be "mugs to the backline" when I played (in the backline!)" Shane ::)
Doc's kicking for goal let him down last week too. He's normally a reliable kick for goal.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: DJC on March 20, 2025, 11:10:32 am
His work in defence last week was one of few shining lights.
Yep, got to give him credit, I was a cynic but he was much better than I expected, it's like D50 is in his genetics or something weird like that! :o
I thought OH was great as well, a lot of the cynics about his move to D50 seem to be schtum, they should give credit when it's due! Of course we realise it's only one game, but holding back the plaudits while waiting for him to trip up seems to be a little disingenuous.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Professer E on March 20, 2025, 11:43:15 am
What you didn't see him outsprinted on numerous occasions, at least one example coughing up a soft goal? It was on the highlights package FFS
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: LP on March 20, 2025, 12:09:11 pm
What you didn't see him outsprinted on numerous occasions, at least one example coughing up a soft goal? It was on the highlights package FFS
Are you claiming he gave up the chase?
Only in the mind of fans is it a crime to be slower than an opponent, fans often think a team needs 100% supremacy but that is a fantasy. In our squad it would be quite odd to single someone out for being slower, than an opponent.
Other than TDK and perhaps Saad if the match up is good, do we have another player guaranteed to be faster than their direct opponent?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: PaulP on March 20, 2025, 12:18:48 pm
I heard Sam Mitchell say there is leg speed and there is brain speed. My personal feeling is that with a fully fit list, Jack Silvagni would be hovering around the end of the best 22 (i.e just in or just out), but from what I can tell, his footy IQ (i.e brain speed) is pretty good.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 20, 2025, 12:33:26 pm
I heard Mitchell say on radio “its gonna be hot early”, from that it sounded to me like he expects they will weather any storm then run away with it.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Thryleon on March 20, 2025, 01:34:31 pm
IMHO winning the ball at the coal face is crucial to this contest. If we can win first use, the next important thing is what we do with it. If we go to a contest repeatedly, they will waltz away with it like we are standing still.
If we play this way, once we lose the ascendency it appears to me that we have no confidence to play any other way and win so we repeat the same approach expecting different results based on the outcome of contests. This is fine, its probably playing percentage football for us, where we are a contested team and we dont mind the contest, but IMHO, you are better off avoiding a contest, and making your opponent chase tail. That doesnt mean be quicker, that means move the ball quicker to the next target. They cant catch whats in constant motion.
This means good ball use though, and our side just doesnt have it. Its a real conundrum. Im expecting Hawthorn to play dirty. We go to water under physical pressure.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Professer E on March 20, 2025, 01:35:54 pm
Sorry, I seem to be having trouble getting a really simple fact across. If somebody runs away from somebody either (1) the person chasing stopped or (2) the other person is faster ?!?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: LP on March 20, 2025, 01:48:30 pm
I heard Sam Mitchell say there is leg speed and there is brain speed.
It was one of the things I took away from the opening round, the speed of ball movement had almost nothing to do with leg speed. The teams were efficiently offloading the pill like a hot potato, but in a controlled way not the chaotic and not a turnover circus, I've never seen it executed to that level before, offloading before you can be tackled. I saw us do it just once, Cripps at the top of F50.
We with our mostly stronger emphasis heavy working inside Mids we seem to still be in the "draw in the tackler then shovel it out" mode of play. The problem is opposition teams are waiting at the end of the shovel.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 20, 2025, 01:53:36 pm
Defenders need to defend and it's the number of goals and goal assists their opponent gets is my main yardstick on judging their performance not how many cheap possessions they rack up. Ollie Hollands is still work in progress both as a defender and wingman.He does make errors but he does have a crack and give some effort unlike some of his teammates but I'd be careful in choosing his opponent. Hawks rotate a lot of their smaller mid size players and Voss and crew need to be on top of player mismatches.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: LP on March 20, 2025, 01:57:35 pm
At some stage early on sit the pill on Wiz's head and let TDK or McGovern turn him into a rivet.
Clarkson took great joy telling his team "If it bleeds, we can kill it!"
I'd say "If it's small, crush it!"
Those little blokes tend to slow right down when a KPP knee disconnects a rib or two!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Thryleon on March 20, 2025, 02:03:40 pm
Sorry, I seem to be having trouble getting a really simple fact across. If somebody runs away from somebody either (1) the person chasing stopped or (2) the other person is faster ?!?
Ive yet to see someone capable of running at the same speed frequently from start to finish over 120 mins.
In an isolated event, being out run needs to be viewed in context?
Was this sprint a repeat? Was this against an opponent who had just come off the bench? Was this against an opponent that is lightning quick?
So ignoring the isolated incident, the total distance covered by players ranked as follows:
Top 5:
T.Taranto 16.4 ks M. Cottrell 15.7 ks S.Walsh 15.7 O.Hollands. 15.7 L. Camporeale 15.4
Work rate/average speed in Attack J.trezise 9.6 s.walsh 9.4 t.taranto 9.4 t.sonsie 9.4 H.armstrong 9.3
Defense
F.evans 9.7 t.sonsie 9.6 c. lord 9.5 (did we sub him cos he blew up or was he making senior players look bad?) A. cerra 9.3 (important, as that means he is doing the dirty work back). s. campbell (clearly the bloke who ran hardest during the match).
Work rate in attack was in richmonds favour 8.5km vs 8.2km Work rate in defense was in carltons favour 8.4km vs 8.1km.
Seeing an isolated incident doesnt really tell the story, but it does mean that his opponent out ran him. Perhaps it was S.Campbell? If it was, no shame in that, the bloke was a machine statistically and clearly the hardest working player on the night.
It also shows that Hollands was running at a very high average speed, for more ks than the average player. This will see him outrun on occasion, because you just cant go like that all night.
There are two schools. The school of speed, and the school of endurance. The ones that run a lot usually are one paced. That pace is not usually express, its just a sustainable way to cover a lot of ground. Speed players usually do it in bursts. They will sprint 10 times at high pace. They start doing it more frequently? The speed drops off. You just cannot recover that quickly to repeat sprint at fast pace that often.
Thats all I can add to the conversation, but if we had more Ollie Hollands, and based on the above Francis Evans, we would be quicker and fitter. Weve just dropped Frank the tank which suggests hes a worker at least. He was pretty ordinary though. Work rate clearly isnt the issue there, which means its nous, and thats something that might see him come good later in his career (if he extends it beyojnd this year).
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Lods on March 20, 2025, 02:05:31 pm
Sorry, I seem to be having trouble getting a really simple fact across. If somebody runs away from somebody either (1) the person chasing stopped or (2) the other person is faster ?!?
Ive yet to see someone capable of running at the same speed frequently from start to finish over 120 mins.
In an isolated event, being out run needs to be viewed in context?
Was this sprint a repeat? Was this against an opponent who had just come off the bench? Was this against an opponent that is lightning quick?
So ignoring the isolated incident, the total distance covered by players ranked as follows:
Top 5:
T.Taranto 16.4 ks M. Cottrell 15.7 ks S.Walsh 15.7 O.Hollands. 15.7 L. Camporeale 15.4
Work rate/average speed in Attack J.trezise 9.6 s.walsh 9.4 t.taranto 9.4 t.sonsie 9.4 H.armstrong 9.3
Defense
F.evans 9.7 t.sonsie 9.6 c. lord 9.5 (did we sub him cos he blew up or was he making senior players look bad?) A. cerra 9.3 (important, as that means he is doing the dirty work back). s. campbell (clearly the bloke who ran hardest during the match).
Work rate in attack was in richmonds favour 8.5km vs 8.2km Work rate in defense was in carltons favour 8.4km vs 8.1km.
Seeing an isolated incident doesnt really tell the story, but it does mean that his opponent out ran him. Perhaps it was S.Campbell? If it was, no shame in that, the bloke was a machine statistically and clearly the hardest working player on the night.
Where did you get those stats Thry?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 20, 2025, 02:47:02 pm
Sorry, I seem to be having trouble getting a really simple fact across. If somebody runs away from somebody either (1) the person chasing stopped or (2) the other person is faster ?!?
Ive yet to see someone capable of running at the same speed frequently from start to finish over 120 mins.
In an isolated event, being out run needs to be viewed in context?
Was this sprint a repeat? Was this against an opponent who had just come off the bench? Was this against an opponent that is lightning quick?
So ignoring the isolated incident, the total distance covered by players ranked as follows:
Top 5:
T.Taranto 16.4 ks M. Cottrell 15.7 ks S.Walsh 15.7 O.Hollands. 15.7 L. Camporeale 15.4
Work rate/average speed in Attack J.trezise 9.6 s.walsh 9.4 t.taranto 9.4 t.sonsie 9.4 H.armstrong 9.3
Defense
F.evans 9.7 t.sonsie 9.6 c. lord 9.5 (did we sub him cos he blew up or was he making senior players look bad?) A. cerra 9.3 (important, as that means he is doing the dirty work back). s. campbell (clearly the bloke who ran hardest during the match).
Work rate in attack was in richmonds favour 8.5km vs 8.2km Work rate in defense was in carltons favour 8.4km vs 8.1km.
Seeing an isolated incident doesnt really tell the story, but it does mean that his opponent out ran him. Perhaps it was S.Campbell? If it was, no shame in that, the bloke was a machine statistically and clearly the hardest working player on the night.
It also shows that Hollands was running at a very high average speed, for more ks than the average player. This will see him outrun on occasion, because you just cant go like that all night.
There are two schools. The school of speed, and the school of endurance. The ones that run a lot usually are one paced. That pace is not usually express, its just a sustainable way to cover a lot of ground. Speed players usually do it in bursts. They will sprint 10 times at high pace. They start doing it more frequently? The speed drops off. You just cannot recover that quickly to repeat sprint at fast pace that often.
Thats all I can add to the conversation, but if we had more Ollie Hollands, and based on the above Francis Evans, we would be quicker and fitter. Weve just dropped Frank the tank which suggests hes a worker at least. He was pretty ordinary though. Work rate clearly isnt the issue there, which means its nous, and thats something that might see him come good later in his career (if he extends it beyojnd this year).
When I was coaching we would test kids playing basketball both in sprints and then with ball in hand.....a lot of the kids as soon as they had to dribble with the ball as quickly as possible slowed down considerably and there were only a few who could maintain their speed. In football imho there is pace chasing and pace running with the ball and being able to get away or keep distance between you and the chaser. I felt Richmond had more players in each category and eg we really had no one who could catch Campbell in particular when he had the ball and even our younger players like Lord, Ollie and Lucas Camp are not express paced either chasing or with ball in hand.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: DJC on March 20, 2025, 03:11:11 pm
What you didn't see him outsprinted on numerous occasions, at least one example coughing up a soft goal? It was on the highlights package FFS
I watched the game live and I've watched replays of every goal several times.
Campbell kicked a goal with Jack chasing. However, Jack left his direct opponent to try to put pressure on Campbell. I doubt that even Gout Gout could have got near Campbell in that situation, and where was Campbell's opponent?
Lalor crumbed a marking contest between Jack and Lynch and kicked a goal with Jack giving chase. Incredible second effort from Jack but, again, there's no way he could have got near Lalor, and where was Lalor's opponent>
Finally, Docherty's handball to Jack missed by metres, Lalor swooped on the loose ball and kicked the goal. Nothing Jack could do.
I can't find any footage of Jack's lack of footspeed coughing up soft goals. I did notice a Richmond crumber running away from Weiters for a soft goal but, again, Weiters had just contested the mark and shouldn't be expected to cover opposition crumbers.
On the other side of the coin, Jack had 16 disposals @ 69%, eight marks (two contested), four intercepts, four tackles, nine 1%ers, one goal and gained 296 metres. That's a pretty good day at the office for a key defender.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Thryleon on March 20, 2025, 03:27:54 pm
Work rate/average speed in Attack J.trezise 9.6 s.walsh 9.4 t.taranto 9.4 t.sonsie 9.4 H.armstrong 9.3
Defense
F.evans 9.7 t.sonsie 9.6 c. lord 9.5 (did we sub him cos he blew up or was he making senior players look bad?) A. cerra 9.3 (important, as that means he is doing the dirty work back). s. campbell (clearly the bloke who ran hardest during the match).
Work rate in attack was in richmonds favour 8.5km vs 8.2km Work rate in defense was in carltons favour 8.4km vs 8.1km.
Seeing an isolated incident doesnt really tell the story, but it does mean that his opponent out ran him. Perhaps it was S.Campbell? If it was, no shame in that, the bloke was a machine statistically and clearly the hardest working player on the night.
Where did you get those stats Thry?
The AFL app. Readily available if you go searching through it. Go to the tracker instead of the summary, players or teams "tab".
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Lods on March 20, 2025, 03:52:20 pm
Even though some teams have had an extra game, a number of them will have at least two wins on the board by thr end of the round.
We won't be able to make that up that ground, especially those teams who may be three games ahead of us.
Sad but true.
A bit excessive!!! A few months ago, many who had us top 8 or top 4, also had us 1/1 after the first two weeks. A hotly contested 'admirable loss' would leave us 0/2 with plenty of time to find a win against an unlikely opponent to get us back on track.
I hope our players don't give up as quickly as some of our 'supporters'!!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 20, 2025, 06:09:01 pm
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: kruddler on March 20, 2025, 06:40:24 pm
Anybody brave enough to tell me we don't need to sure up our KP stocks after the late out/in of Harry for Young?
Now hopefully Young has his best game ever and dominates and/or allows Silvagni to play forward and dominate....or whatever. But odds on that happening are longer odds than us winning tonight
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: kruddler on March 20, 2025, 06:43:07 pm
Lord the sub. Not exactly what you want with a bloke who likes contact in wet conditions. Better to have all these fair-weather small forwards on the ground instead?
Not sure i agree with that call.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Lods on March 20, 2025, 06:46:06 pm
Given the weather looks a bit dodgy would it not have been better to replace Harry with a small.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: kruddler on March 20, 2025, 06:48:39 pm
Anybody brave enough to tell me we don't need to sure up our KP stocks after the late out/in of Harry for Young?
Now hopefully Young has his best game ever and dominates and/or allows Silvagni to play forward and dominate....or whatever. But odds on that happening are longer odds than us winning tonight
sorry but we shouldn't be adding another tall in this weather. Jsos forward, and bring in more run.
From.bad to worse with this MC. Let's use cooper lord as the sub.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: kruddler on March 20, 2025, 06:57:25 pm
Anybody brave enough to tell me we don't need to sure up our KP stocks after the late out/in of Harry for Young?
Now hopefully Young has his best game ever and dominates and/or allows Silvagni to play forward and dominate....or whatever. But odds on that happening are longer odds than us winning tonight
sorry but we shouldn't be adding another tall in this weather. Jsos forward, and bring in more run.
From.bad to worse with this MC. Let's use cooper lord as the sub.
I agree we shouldn't be bringing in another tall. However, my point was when we need to bring in another KP player to cover for Harry, all we have at our disposal is Young. That is depressing.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Lods on March 20, 2025, 06:58:01 pm
Hopefully this is a Harry specific illness and no-one else is 'under the weather',
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: kruddler on March 20, 2025, 07:00:05 pm
Hopefully this is a Harry specific illness and no-one else is 'under the weather',
No idea, but i did float the idea last week that there could be a variety of reasons why we lost last week that may come out in the future. One of those was that there was an illness going through the club.
I'd almost be encouraged if it was spread throughout the group. At least it explains last week a bit better.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: PaulP on March 20, 2025, 07:15:13 pm
Not that he was alone, but Harry McKay looked way off last week.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Professer E on March 20, 2025, 07:17:55 pm
Can't win games with our deadsh1t MC, clueless. Another tall with hard hands.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: tex on March 20, 2025, 07:23:15 pm
We will get flogged this week. MC no idea. Hawks 50+.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: LordLucifer on March 20, 2025, 07:25:33 pm
Can't win games with our deadsh1t MC, clueless. Another tall with hard hands.
When they originally named the team and made just the one change, it was at that point I knew were in strife. Instead of sending a strong message that softc0ck performances will not be tolerated, they mollycoddle these imposters.
Now we have a late change which not many agree with plus they have made Lord the sub, you couldn't script this rubbish.
I'll say it again, lose tonight and its season over.
Our players don't have the mental fight to come back from adversity in a match, there is bugger all chance of doing across a season.
I reckon we will come out and throw the kitchen sink at the Hawks who will be like a boxer on the ropes, they will just absorb our onslaught until we can't give it anymore and then flick their own switch and power away ...... once again.
Be great if I'm completely off with the pixies but I am so disillusioned after last week's loss that I cannot see any glimmer of hope anywhere.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 2 2025 Pre Game Prognostications Carlton vs Hawthorn
Post by: Professer E on March 20, 2025, 07:28:17 pm
You're one of the few not drinking the Koolaid, the list is weak, we're mentally weak as pi$$ and we aren't set up to play footy 2025 style. Zero idea at every level.