Carlton Supporters Club

3. Motlop can play and many owe him an apology.
Was not a great night for high skill, but he got plenty of it and hit the scoreboard. Got unlucky with a couple of shots, but he will only get better and hopefully luckier. Getting runs through the middle worked wonders for him.

There were some flashes of good stuff but not enough and for long enough, we just don't have the list to go anywhere significant

We will never be taken seriously when we can only manage two goals in the second half of any match. Don't forget, we did the same thing last week.

Season over now ........... we are just another mid-table team who will pinch the occassional scalp along the way but that's about it.

Lucas throwing up at one stage. (I doubt it was nerves)

Quote from: LordLucifer – on March 20, 2025, 10:45:48 pm

There were some flashes of good stuff but not enough and for long enough, we just don't have the list to go anywhere significant

We will never be taken seriously when we can only manage two goals in the second half of any match. Don't forget, we did the same thing last week.

Season over now ........... we are just another mid-table team who will pinch the occassional scalp along the way but that's about it.

Agree, our list just isn't good enough, hasn't improved enough or in the right areas since 2023. We will be the lesser teams if we dont make too many errors but we won't come close to the contenders.
Oh well, gonna be a long year me thinks.

Hawks certainly had the rub of the green from the umpires they got the 50/50 ones while ours were given well after 3 or 4 had already been missed.

Curnow's not fit.

There were some flashes of good stuff but not enough and for long enough, we just don't have the list to go anywhere significant

We will never be taken seriously when we can only manage two goals in the second half of any match. Don't forget, we did the same thing last week.

Season over now ........... we are just another mid-table team who will pinch the occassional scalp along the way but that's about it.

Another disappointing result. The major disappointment for me is we play like that against Richmond we win, but we seem to save our worst against the worst. So I guess it was a better effort but all to no avail. We had our chances. Had 2 set shots in the 3rd and missed them both and the whorek's don't miss when they get  chance. It's all in our heads as it has been for many years now.
Painful being at the ground and having to put up with their tosser supporters. They compliment their team of flogs.

Quote from: Lods – on March 20, 2025, 10:26:24 pm

Lucas throwing up at one stage. (I doubt it was nerves)

BT said probably nerves. Uh it was after half time or 3/4 time I believe, I think he was physically spent! Doubt he’d be nervously vomiting halfway thru a game!

What hurts most about that loss is 3 goals to a muppet like Chol.

I dont like to blame umps but we got stitched up a few times tonight.  Our first goal was taken off us for nothing.  I didn't see the free kick, but they never penalise a forward against a defender on the goal line. Tonight that happened?

Walsh kicked a goal after a free was paid.  From memory jack silvagni was paid the free.  He missed the set shot, but walsh had taken advantage and kicked the goal. 

Beyond that I thought we did better than expected and we were blown away.  We have not out run a team for a long time, and our match fitness is a problem. Either that or our game style is too taxing.

Quote from: Gointocarlton – on March 20, 2025, 11:52:12 pm

What hurts most about that loss is 3 goals to a muppet like Chol.

Lucky you didn't watch it, because the way he got a couple of them was just a little disappointing, a physical capability issue doesn't explain it.

There are big problems, the media can sense it but they are sort of skirting around the issue at the moment, another week or two of this stuff and they won't be so subtle anymore.

We have the players but attitude is everything.

Free Kick Hawthorn is a thing and I have a theory. Their jumper colours are such that the umpire see clearly even the slightest tug or hold. In contrast, our darker jumper may may it hard to see the same things. Just a theory, might be complete BS but that's what my eye saw last night. The free against Gov for HTB at CHB was also complete rubbish. He had no prior, was pushed forward in the tackle, like a secondary motion and they blew the whistle. Pretty sure a goal resulted.

Quote from: laj – on March 21, 2025, 01:56:14 am

We have the players but attitude is everything.

No and yes.

I watched it because it was our game, I saw Young get sucked to the contest leaving Chol on his own to receive and score.
I said in another post he infringed in the marking contest preceding his first goal and wasn't penalised.
In any case, he ended up with 3 and was the dominant fwd on the ground, not bad for a total muppet.

“They turned up their intensity a bit, started asking questions, but I was pretty happy with our fight,” he said.

“There was a fair bit of determination within our group throughout the night.

“I don’t know, moments, take a contested mark, maybe there’s an inside 50 we don’t quite hit or a goal we don’t quite finish.

“Often in those games that’s what it comes down to, they come down to moments, there was plenty of swings in that game.

“There was some swings that went in our favour and some that went in Hawthorn’s favour, both teams were able to swing it back.

“I can’t ignore they were able to execute for a bit longer at times and it was probably the difference in the end.”

I'd like to point out something to everyone .....

Last year's final against Brisbane, we were held scoreless in the first quarter, kicked two in the second quarter & three in the third quarter (five goals overall in three quarters).

In the first game against Richmond, we kicked two goals in the second, 1 goal in the third & 1 goal in the last (4 goals overall in three quarters).

Last night against the Hawks, we kicked two goals in the first quarter, two goals in the third quarter and zero goals in the last quarter (4 goals in three quarters).

Adding those all together, in 1.5 matches, we have managed the stellar total of 13 goals which is not enough to beat the Little League at half-time. 

Seriously, we are kidding ourselves if we think this sort of utter crap is going to get us into finals contentions, we are so far off the pace it is embarrassing.

We have not out run a team for a long time, and our match fitness is a problem. Either that or our game style is too taxing.

One of the goals hawthorn got was from a blatant throw too out of traffic.

I'd like to point out something to everyone .....

Last year's final against Brisbane, we were held scoreless in the first quarter, kicked two in the second quarter & three in the third quarter (five goals overall in three quarters).

In the first game against Richmond, we kicked two goals in the second, 1 goal in the third & 1 goal in the last (4 goals overall in three quarters).

Last night against the Hawks, we kicked two goals in the first quarter, two goals in the third quarter and zero goals in the last quarter (4 goals in three quarters).

Adding those all together, in 1.5 matches, we have managed the stellar total of 13 goals which is not enough to beat the Little League at half-time. 

Seriously, we are kidding ourselves if we think this sort of utter crap is going to get us into finals contentions, we are so far off the pace it is embarrassing.

Quote from: Gointocarlton – on March 21, 2025, 07:29:15 am

Free Kick Hawthorn is a thing and I have a theory. Their jumper colours are such that the umpire see clearly even the slightest tug or hold. In contrast, our darker jumper may may it hard to see the same things. Just a theory, might be complete BS but that's what my eye saw last night. The free against Gov for HTB at CHB was also complete rubbish. He had no prior, was pushed forward in the tackle, like a secondary motion and they blew the whistle. Pretty sure a goal resulted.

Free kick Hawthorn might be true, but it is not as damaging as no free kick Carlton. I watched Hardwick, Day, Maginness, Weddle all pick up the pill like McGovern, run further without contact only to be tackled without disposal and not get penalised.

This picture tells a story, the slightest brush of an arm against Watson, Newcombe or Amon and they earn a free, Charlie, Cripps, McGovern get their head ripped off and it's play on. There was one in the last quarter between Meek and TDK that was shocking, Meek basically propped and stiff-armed TDK to the face with the umpire standing in the frame watching, play on!

(https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/adf0c7de0aa5f8058d92d3a3ba768e11?width=650)

Fu^k I HATE Whorethorne
Surely we need to ask for clarification on the Umpiring?????

Quote from: LordLucifer – on March 21, 2025, 09:02:58 am

I'd like to point out something to everyone .....

Last year's final against Brisbane, we were held scoreless in the first quarter, kicked two in the second quarter & three in the third quarter (five goals overall in three quarters).

In the first game against Richmond, we kicked two goals in the second, 1 goal in the third & 1 goal in the last (4 goals overall in three quarters).

Last night against the Hawks, we kicked two goals in the first quarter, two goals in the third quarter and zero goals in the last quarter (4 goals in three quarters).

Adding those all together, in 1.5 matches, we have managed the stellar total of 13 goals which is not enough to beat the Little League at half-time. 

Seriously, we are kidding ourselves if we think this sort of utter crap is going to get us into finals contentions, we are so far off the pace it is embarrassing.

The common factor in all those games though is that either Harry or Charlie has been missing.
And when they've played they've both been below their best.
Our structure, the one that works well, is missing.
With those two playing it also takes a better defensive effort from the opposition and frees up other players to score.

So you're seeing it Goin'....Williams encapsulates everything wrong at Carlton.  A lazy, selfish, soft as a bag of kittens footballer comfortable with his 800 000 a year who couldn't or wouldn't get fit enough to do his purported role.... So now the team has to compensate by creating a role for him whereby he hides away and does SFA.  Not hungry enough or desparate enough, comes off the ground giving the impression "oh well, there's always next week".  We didn't pay that amount for what we're getting, or more exactly, no getting...same with Cerra (supposed to add silk to our ball use) or MacG. We need low cost (draft and $) players that deliver above tote odds, not highly paid under deliverers.

As for "Deadly" Motlop... The excuses - and there were lots of them - for this bloke was he wasn't fit enough last year.  So what's the excuse this year?  Handles the ball like a wet brick - won't make it and after three years had enough of carrying blokes like this.  Had opportunities to kick a bag last night, nowhere near good enough.

There were some flashes of good stuff but not enough and for long enough, we just don't have the list to go anywhere significant

We will never be taken seriously when we can only manage two goals in the second half of any match. Don't forget, we did the same thing last week.

Season over now ........... we are just another mid-table team who will pinch the occassional scalp along the way but that's about it.

Quote from: LordLucifer – on March 21, 2025, 09:02:58 am

I'd like to point out something to everyone .....

Last year's final against Brisbane, we were held scoreless in the first quarter, kicked two in the second quarter & three in the third quarter (five goals overall in three quarters).

In the first game against Richmond, we kicked two goals in the second, 1 goal in the third & 1 goal in the last (4 goals overall in three quarters).

Last night against the Hawks, we kicked two goals in the first quarter, two goals in the third quarter and zero goals in the last quarter (4 goals in three quarters).

Adding those all together, in 1.5 matches, we have managed the stellar total of 13 goals which is not enough to beat the Little League at half-time. 

Seriously, we are kidding ourselves if we think this sort of utter crap is going to get us into finals contentions, we are so far off the pace it is embarrassing.

The common factor in all those games though is that either Harry or Charlie has been missing.
And when they've played they've both been below their best.
Our structure, the one that works well, is missing.
With those two playing it also takes a better defensive effort from the opposition and frees up other players to score.

Quote from: Professer E – on March 21, 2025, 10:45:43 am

So you're seeing it Goin'....Williams encapsulates everything wrong at Carlton.  A lazy, selfish, soft as a bag of kittens footballer comfortable with his 800 000 a year who couldn't or wouldn't get fit enough to do his purported role.... So now the team has to compensate by creating a role for him whereby he hides away and does SFA.  Not hungry enough or desparate enough, comes off the ground giving the impression "oh well, there's always next week".  We didn't pay that amount for what we're getting, or more exactly, no getting...same with Cerra (supposed to add silk to our ball use) or MacG. We need low cost (draft and $) players that deliver above tote odds, not highly paid under deliverers.

As for "Deadly" Motlop... The excuses - and there were lots of them - for this bloke was he wasn't fit enough last year.  So what's the excuse this year?  Handles the ball like a wet brick - won't make it and after three years had enough of carrying blokes like this.  Had opportunities to kick a bag last night, nowhere near good enough.

Look Prof, there is no doubting Zac's skills, but I saw a few moments from him last night when it was hot and everyone was tearing in for the footy and he didn't go when he had to. Little moments like that have an affect on your teams, sag off and they think negatively, tearing in balls and alll and the teammate lift to emulate. As I said, it take zero skill to tear in, just desire and it surprises me when they dont. Not sure if its a between the ears thing, fear of injury, no idea but to me its the least you can do. This stuff kills coaches.

Zac is probably our best small forward and most efficient sad to say, Motlop looks better playing up the ground as an old fashioned rover who rests down forward but does most of his better work up the field and in the middle and thats where I would be playing him more and forgetting about him as a dedicated small forward.
No doubt Zac has been a monumental fail and not lived up to expectations but we are going to have to live with his inconsistencies
until we can recruit the genuine article.
Lazy is a term you could apply to a few more players than Williams....I watched Young and Haynes spectate then fumble down back and easy goal was kicked on the back of their lazy insipid efforts at ground level where neither failed to contest properly and couldnt be bothered. They need dropping never to return, Chol is a muppet but he intimidated our players including Weitering and it was embarrassing seeing him push our blokes around. I can cop losing but lets at least get some mongrel in our game and stop playing nice, Voss isnt a great tactician but he doesnt have much to work with and its breaking the likes of Cripps having to do everything much like we broke Judd, TDK was very good but he must thinking of how much easier he could have it down on the Bellarine at the Cattery and not having to carry so much of a load on his young shoulders.

So, the whorks play with 19 men and get away with it.  Doesn't score reset to zero, so we actually won by how much????
Umpires didn't have a great night did they.

There were some flashes of good stuff but not enough and for long enough, we just don't have the list to go anywhere significant

We will never be taken seriously when we can only manage two goals in the second half of any match. Don't forget, we did the same thing last week.

Season over now ........... we are just another mid-table team who will pinch the occassional scalp along the way but that's about it.

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on March 21, 2025, 03:47:01 pm

Zac is probably our best small forward and most efficient sad to say, Motlop looks better playing up the ground as an old fashioned rover who rests down forward but does most of his better work up the field and in the middle and thats where I would be playing him more and forgetting about him as a dedicated small forward.
No doubt Zac has been a monumental fail and not lived up to expectations but we are going to have to live with his inconsistencies
until we can recruit the genuine article.
Lazy is a term you could apply to a few more players than Williams....I watched Young and Haynes spectate then fumble down back and easy goal was kicked on the back of their lazy insipid efforts at ground level where neither failed to contest properly and couldnt be bothered. They need dropping never to return, Chol is a muppet but he intimidated our players including Weitering and it was embarrassing seeing him push our blokes around. I can cop losing but lets at least get some mongrel in our game and stop playing nice, Voss isnt a great tactician but he doesnt have much to work with and its breaking the likes of Cripps having to do everything much like we broke Judd, TDK was very good but he must thinking of how much easier he could have it down on the Bellarine at the Cattery and not having to carry so much of a load on his young shoulders.

Agree wholeheartedly re Haynes and Young, I think it was the mark Gunston took which he goaled from, Haynes needed to read it and get over to create mayhem by flying to create the contest. Instead, he just jogged a few meters back. Insipid but it accounts to lacking attention to detail. Defenders just aren't defensively minded anymore. As an old school defender, I was taught to always watch your man, anticipate his next move based not the flow of play. So first and foremost, as a defender, my mindset was to me miserly at all times, if my opponent didn't take a mark, get a disposal or score, I had done my job. These guys are worries about zones, shapes, handovers, run and carry. Just defend FFS.

Quote from: 31Tommys_barber – on March 20, 2025, 10:52:28 pm

Hawks certainly had the rub of the green from the umpires they got the 50/50 ones while ours were given well after 3 or 4 had already been missed.

Definitely a feel of free kick hawthorn. Of course they gave us 4-5 in the last quarter to even up those stats a bit, mostly in our D50.

What even is HTB anymore 🤷

We have some issues no doubt.
Folks have pretty much covered them.

But on the flip side, you look at the position we're in...

We played arguably the form side of the competition.
We were essentially without our two key forwards because Curnow's contribution was only to draw an opponent.
As a result our forward structure was nowhere near its optimum.
Motlop and Silvagni both had close misses. Jack a poster, Motlop overturned on a late review.
I think there were a couple of others.

They only scored 80 points.
Only two teams since they began their charge in the middle of last year have restricted them to lower scores.
The inside 50s were almost even...they had one more.
We won the clearances

We have some issues no doubt.
Folks have pretty much covered them.

But on the flip side, you look at the position we're in...

We played arguably the form side of the competition.
We were essentially without our two key forwards because Curnow's contribution was only to draw an opponent.
As a result our forward structure was nowhere near its optimum.
Motlop and Silvagni both had close misses. Jack a poster, Motlop overturned on a late review.
I think there were a couple of others.
Scoring shots were the same.

They only scored 80 points.
Only two teams since they began their charge in the middle of last year have restricted them to lower scores.
The inside 50s were almost even...they had one more.
We won the clearances
Tackles were fairly even

In the end it was their efficiency which was the difference.

We play different styles of game.
They're at the top of their game with their style at the moment...run, skill, precision
We're a bit off the pace with ours....pressure, clearance, stoppage wins

Some have suggested ours is out-dated and their's is the new modern way to play.
Lets see how that develops if we can get back close to our best.

I agree Lods. It wasn't so long ago that the Brutal Blues were the talk of the town. Now the same people are saying our style is unsustainable, taxing and we're sending Cripps to an early grave.

I am not sure why Lemmey,  Binns, Moir and Wilson are on the list if we are not going to give them a go.

Our problem is the execution of our skills. This I believe leads to players having a lack of belief and trust in their teamates and makes us reactive which makes us look slow uncertain and less inclined to take initiative. We are scared of making mistakes so we don't take chances which leads to us playing conservatively and one dimensional.

Quote from: Lods – on March 21, 2025, 06:50:34 pm

Lucas Campo has had a taste of senior footy and shown a bit more than expected.

Yea,  we got shown his breakfast and definitely wasn't expecting that  :D

Quote from: Micky0 – on March 20, 2025, 10:58:53 pm

Definitely a feel of free kick hawthorn. Of course they gave us 4-5 in the last quarter to even up those stats a bit, mostly in our D50.

What even is HTB anymore 🤷

Yes and the even upper frees were deep in our backhalf. Meaning the frees were useless

So while the AFL give free kick hawks a ride. They also get warnings that are generous

Full AFL statement on Hawthorn's interchange breach

During the second quarter of last night's game following the Adam Cerra goal and a subsequent interchange of players, Hawthorn had 19 players on the field as the teams were resetting for the bounce. Upon realising this, the AFL interchange official notified Hawthorn who took steps to rectify the error before play resumed.

The AFL Field Umpires paid a 6-6-6 warning as Hawthorn were lined up with 7 players in one of the sections of the field.

Upon review of the situation post-match, it is the view of the AFL that the AFL interchange official should have considered it a major breach, alerted the umpires and Carlton should have been awarded a free kick and 50m penalty from the centre.

The AFL has now provided Hawthorn with a warning in relation to their process for managing player rotations.

So while the AFL give free kick hawks a ride. They also get warnings that are generous

Full AFL statement on Hawthorn's interchange breach

During the second quarter of last night's game following the Adam Cerra goal and a subsequent interchange of players, Hawthorn had 19 players on the field as the teams were resetting for the bounce. Upon realising this, the AFL interchange official notified Hawthorn who took steps to rectify the error before play resumed.

The AFL Field Umpires paid a 6-6-6 warning as Hawthorn were lined up with 7 players in one of the sections of the field.

Upon review of the situation post-match, it is the view of the AFL that the AFL interchange official should have considered it a major breach, alerted the umpires and Carlton should have been awarded a free kick and 50m penalty from the centre.

The AFL has now provided Hawthorn with a warning in relation to their process for managing player rotations.

Big deal! They should have their scores removed!

We have some issues no doubt.
Folks have pretty much covered them.

But on the flip side, you look at the position we're in...

We played arguably the form side of the competition.
We were essentially without our two key forwards because Curnow's contribution was only to draw an opponent.
As a result our forward structure was nowhere near its optimum.
Motlop and Silvagni both had close misses. Jack a poster, Motlop overturned on a late review.
I think there were a couple of others.
Scoring shots were the same.

They only scored 80 points.
Only two teams since they began their charge in the middle of last year have restricted them to lower scores.
The inside 50s were almost even...they had one more.
We won the clearances
Tackles were fairly even

In the end it was their efficiency which was the difference.

We play different styles of game.
They're at the top of their game with their style at the moment...run, skill, precision
We're a bit off the pace with ours....pressure, clearance, stoppage wins

Some have suggested ours is out-dated and their's is the new modern way to play.
Lets see how that develops if we can get back close to our best.

https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/document/2025/03/21/19a8bff6-8f49-45b9-b686-83a64db02fe0/LEGAL_2025_150532_Laws-of-the-Game_Booklet_Digital_FA.pdf

Rule 5.5 Counting of players

Rule 5.5.3 (d) basically says the controlling body can do whatever it likes in the situation. So that's the end of it.

So dependant on which perspective we take, the rules are more of a guideline!

Isn't that the crux of the issue everybody has with the MRP, and the umpiring in general, that there are too many "interpretations of the guidelines!"

I can't help but wonder what the sport might be like if not run by lawyers.

Quote from: LP – on March 24, 2025, 12:12:26 pm

So dependant on which perspective we take, the rules are more of a guideline!

Isn't that the crux of the issue everybody has with the MRP, and the umpiring in general, that there are too many "interpretations of the guidelines!"

I can't help but wonder what the sport might be like if not run by lawyers.

Not really.  The rules Lods linked are general rules that the AFL provides for all competitions and they allow for local modifications in some circumstances; 6-6-6, stand rule, etc.

The rules of the AFL are fixed at the start of each season (although there have been occasional changes during seasons).  The penalty for 19 players has been fixed at a free kick and 50m penalty for years.

It seems that my “earpiece” theory was wrong; an umpire counted seven players in a zone and it was assumed that another zone only had five players.  It was an interchange steward error rather than an umpire error.  Although you could argue that the umpires who counted the players in the other zones should have twigged that there was an extra player on the ground.

Quote from: Lods – on March 21, 2025, 11:57:10 pm

https://resources.afl.com.au/afl/document/2025/03/21/19a8bff6-8f49-45b9-b686-83a64db02fe0/LEGAL_2025_150532_Laws-of-the-Game_Booklet_Digital_FA.pdf

Rule 5.5 Counting of players

Rule 5.5.3 (d) basically says the controlling body can do whatever it likes in the situation. So that's the end of it.

They’re general rules Lods.  The controlling body in this case has determined that the penalty for 19 players is a free kick and 50m penalty … basically a gimme goal from a centre bounce situation.

The umpires are made aware of the extra player via their earpieces.  Surely the message should have been, “Hawthorn has 19 players on the field. That’s a free to Carlton and a 50m penalty.”

Not really.  The rules Lods linked are general rules that the AFL provides for all competitions and they allow for local modifications in some circumstances; 6-6-6, stand rule, etc.

The rules of the AFL are fixed at the start of each season (although there have been occasional changes during seasons).  The penalty for 19 players has been fixed at a free kick and 50m penalty for years.

Quote from: DJC – on March 24, 2025, 11:16:51 am

They’re general rules Lods.  The controlling body in this case has determined that the penalty for 19 players is a free kick and 50m penalty … basically a gimme goal from a centre bounce situation.

The umpires are made aware of the extra player via their earpieces.  Surely the message should have been, “Hawthorn has 19 players on the field. That’s a free to Carlton and a 50m penalty.”

Do you have a link for AFL specific rules for season 2025?
Are they different to those stated in the general rules?

I think section 5.5.3d) gives them the out for any decision 'headquarters' may make anyway.

But I'd like to think the rules are clearly available to help folks understand those decisions...and if they are different for the elite level and more general competitions we have a reference.

The play was dead though.

Let's face it, the game was being "reset" after a goal.

How much are we going to talk about this?  No advantage was gained if anything a player had to run more to get off before the match restarted, there was no advantage, the play was dead, and im sitting here saying what clown earth have I woken up in where we are talking detail as a reason for us to gain an advantage?

We are all pretty dissapointed in how we are travelling. The Hawks are the afls darlings and always will be.

The play was dead though.

Let's face it, the game was being "reset" after a goal.

How much are we going to talk about this?  No advantage was gained if anything a player had to run more to get off before the match restarted, there was no advantage, the play was dead, and im sitting here saying what clown earth have I woken up in where we are talking detail as a reason for us to gain an advantage?

We are all pretty dissapointed in how we are travelling. The Hawks are the afls darlings and always will be.

Look I get it, but is it fair?

If we were on the receiving end of that, how would we feel about it?

There are elements of rules that I am all for.  This one doesnt sit correctly with me irrespective of what the rules state.  If you get an unfair advantage sure. 

I am filthier at our set shots hitting posts at crucial moments.  The tom Barrass goal line free kick that is never paid, and a few other dubious things like the obvious throws that got missed.

We shot ourselves in the foot, and this comes across as fan whinging that there was a technical.  Do you want to be a good side and win?  Or do you want to be the team that wins despite being not good enough too?

There was an incident where after a goal one of our players was knocked over post goal.  Normally thats a double goal against, with a free kick at the restart.  Im dirtier about that, than anything else.  City end of the ground.

Look I get it, but is it fair?