Princes Park => Robert Heatley Stand => Topic started by: crashlander on March 28, 2025, 04:07:30 pm
Title: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: crashlander on March 28, 2025, 04:07:30 pm
And the result is ...
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: pinot on March 28, 2025, 10:21:40 pm
DISGRACE
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Lods on March 28, 2025, 10:25:19 pm
Seriously ::) Nothing disgraceful about that. Just some poor decision making late in the game Some by the usual whipping folks but also some by our better players. It was a much better effort.
Our pressure and intensity were streets ahead of the first two weeks.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 28, 2025, 10:25:47 pm
Another game, another capitulation. We have gone back to that team that folds and is easy to beat. The ladder doesnt lie.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: kruddler on March 28, 2025, 10:26:42 pm
2nd last goal wasn't a goal. Instead of the ball being in our hands with less than a goal in it. It goes back to the middle for a 50-50 which they win, and end up with another goal.
Get the goal review right and we probably have enough momentum to get across the line.
For whatever reason, the football gods seem to be against us each week.
Sure, we are not doing everything right, but we are doing enough that we should've eeked out at least 1 win by now.
Good to see Charlie return. Great to see Kemp is not just a 1-week wonder up forward.
Plenty to worry about through the middle.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: BluePhantom on March 28, 2025, 10:27:18 pm
Don't care anymore. Have become numb and immune to the disappointed levelled at us continually for 24 fu#king years.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: pinot on March 28, 2025, 10:29:49 pm
Nup - on the sack Voss bandwagon.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LordLucifer on March 28, 2025, 10:30:36 pm
See ya Vossy, thought you were going to be a real asset.
Season is well & truly over now, start playing Binns, Moir, Wilson etc to salvage something in preparation for 2026.
Once again, we had a number of players get exposed for dumb decision-making and poor skill execution. Sadly, we have to clear the decks yet again !!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: kruddler on March 28, 2025, 10:30:52 pm
Hopefully that bandwagon goes straight off the cliff.
Its ot the time for that $h1t now.
If it's not the coach(es), then it has to be the players who are the issue.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Bluesers on March 28, 2025, 10:38:48 pm
After the round 1 capitulation my expectations for the rest of this year are less than minimal, and after 3 rounds there doesn't seem to be much upside.. MV will be getting very very nervous already, and rightly so. If this inconsistent rubbish is still being dished up come bye rounds then it's highly likely we will be rooted to the bottom two or three and the board will be forced to take action. Deja vu
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: kruddler on March 28, 2025, 10:44:43 pm
Hopefully that bandwagon goes straight off the cliff.
Its ot the time for that $h1t now.
If it's not the coach(es), then it has to be the players who are the issue.
So if I round up a bunch of local teens and get leigh Matthews to coach them, they win the flag do they?
Sack the blokes putting the list together. We have 27 small forwards and 10 players who haven't played a game yet in part because they are no good. Add to that we have double digits of unavailable players every week and you should realise it's not the players lacking effort or instruction but rather ability to get out on the field in a bunch that resemble afl ready footballers.
The most experienced player on our list that was not injured and did not play was Cooper lord. He has played 4 games.
There was about 10 games of afl experience that we had to pick from....2 of them from 18yo lucas.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Micky0 on March 28, 2025, 10:45:50 pm
There is absolutely no way you can defend that loss.
We were up and playing well but then started making stupid fking decisions rather than putting it away, Again.
The days of Cripps pulling us over the line are over.
For the talent we have, the club should be utterly ashamed of wasting it. I dgaf who is injured - Williams is a serial injured player / get rid of him. Cannot be relied upon. Haynes has been useless, whoever recruited him needs the sack immediately.
I and many many many other Carlton supporters have been patient and loyal. This has now become a cruel joke.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: townsendcalling on March 28, 2025, 10:47:48 pm
Did Riley Beveridge watch the game???
BEST Carlton: Kemp, De Koning, Silvagni, Weitering, Cerra, Curnow Western Bulldogs: Liberatore, Davidson, Darcy, Harmes, Williams, Sanders
Curnow hardly got a touch after half time and Weitering toweled up Darcy!!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: townsendcalling on March 28, 2025, 10:50:28 pm
Any comments re the whipping boy Lewis Young and the job he did on the preseason crowned AA CHB Rory Lobb???
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Thryleon on March 28, 2025, 10:53:22 pm
BEST Carlton: Kemp, De Koning, Silvagni, Weitering, Cerra, Curnow Western Bulldogs: Liberatore, Davidson, Darcy, Harmes, Williams, Sanders
Curnow hardly got a touch after half time and Weitering toweled up Darcy!!
Darcy was the difference in the end. You're confusing him with naughton who popped up only when we were gassed.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: rocky on March 28, 2025, 10:53:36 pm
Never felt like we were in control. Played our guts out but it still looks like we can't string 4 quarters together. Long bombs to Charlie when he is clearly not match fit hence his fade away. Small forwards giving us nothing. Well done to Kemp. I hope this is a catalyst to more consistent football. TDK will be a big loss when he moves to a better club. Umpires had an impact again I'm afraid. Real pain coming our way next week.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Thryleon on March 28, 2025, 10:55:56 pm
At quarter time, I remember saying we wont sustain that. When it got tight later i thought they're struggling too, but the Zac williams break down is probably the difference in the end. Keep him out there for another quarter and maybe we have the run to get across the line.
It's only one player but it was barely two kicks.
Credit to vossy and the MC shifting young forward ended up almost being a game winning move.
For once the coaches did reasonably well with the match ups and im man enough to admit i was wrong about that.
We've forgotten how to win games of football. That's why round 1 was such a dissapointment.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LP on March 28, 2025, 10:57:28 pm
A few things;
TDK can't solo ruck 4-qtrs, his mobile running game style is too aerobic and taxing, as good as he was early he's cooked in final quarters every game this season. And sadly despite being cooked he was still one of our better last quarter players. Opposition teams are planning for it now, it has become too predictable, and as a result the final minutes of the game undo all his earlier good work. Also, if he's going to use his size to take some run out of opponents, waiting for the last minute of the game isn't the time to do it.
Coming out of D50 we have virtually zero plan, watch the vision from behind the goals of tonight's game, every dogs exit ends on the wing or further, we've got one kick out of D50 and progress halts 9 times out of 10.
Our efficiency is horrid, they scored goals too easily going the other way mostly from our horrific clangers with the ball in hand.
Our vision and decision making with the footy was abominable, it cost us at least 3 goals tonight.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LP on March 28, 2025, 10:59:16 pm
We've forgotten how to win games of football. That's why round 1 was such a disappointment.
I wish I could say this has come as a shock, but it hasn't!
Someone at our club has the break the bubble that our MC seem to be living in, tonight they were taught a lesson by a 3rd gamer!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: pinot on March 28, 2025, 11:08:22 pm
Play some in form youngsters and drop the time wasters that are playing poorly. Then I might take this group seriously.
Gov, Hollands, Evans shouldnt play AFL.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 28, 2025, 11:10:07 pm
I also think we looked gassed and slow late in the game, we couldn't finish it off strong, so much for power and speed over the PS.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LoveNavy on March 28, 2025, 11:10:32 pm
There's a chance we're on the bottom of the ladder at the end of the round. As our coach says. The ladder doesn't lie.
No idea how the club will dig it's way out of this. We are a permanent bottom half club with an occasional cameo. Nothing more. Nothing less. Juddy used the term mediocre. Sadly, that was before the most recent rebuild. It was over a decade ago!
I can't see supporters taking this quietly. I know it's only R3 but I've seen nothing to convince me we've "rebuilt" anything. Other than an ark in a drought.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LoveNavy on March 28, 2025, 11:13:28 pm
I also think we looked gassed and slow late in the game, we couldn't finish it off strong, so much for power and speed over the PS.
So much for the head coach dismissing fitness issues last week 🙄 Every angle of the club on show is behind the times
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: RiverRat on March 28, 2025, 11:29:38 pm
Better efforts from Young and Haynes; certainly performed up to their limited abilities.
I realise we are desperate for fit players but I can't see what Evans has to offer; not competitive over his head and surprisingly slow for a smaller player.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LP on March 28, 2025, 11:33:30 pm
I realise we are desperate for fit players but I can't see what Evans has to offer; not competitive over his head and surprisingly slow for a smaller player.
Seemed a strange selection didn't it, maybe a lurgy going through the list?
Even stranger for me was Boyd as Sub, just didn't make sense to drop Camporeale and Lord(After Lord was a Sub!) and bench Boyd at the start!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: pinot on March 28, 2025, 11:34:20 pm
Better efforts from Young and Haynes; certainly performed up to their limited abilities.
I realise we are desperate for fit players but I can't see what Evans has to offer; not competitive over his head and surprisingly slow for a smaller player.
Its amazing Voss bought in Evans to execute one tackle for the game . Moir or White could do the same and potentially hit the scoreboard. Thats on Voss.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Professer E on March 28, 2025, 11:35:46 pm
Every one on this site can see that Evans gives us nothing...except the MC and Austin. Time for a clean out. Somebody must be accountable for these kind of decisions. Moir might only get 6 possessions but I bet he makes em count.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: pertz on March 28, 2025, 11:58:54 pm
At the end of the day, we are simply not good enough and too much is left to too few. Haynes and Evans are poor additions to the list and shouldn't play anymore. We need to look to the future and they are not it Out with Gov and Williams also. Motlop not the answer, needs a spell also. Doc, maybe as sub only but the game is passing him by quickly. I may have missed a couple, but that's a starting point for change.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Thryleon on March 29, 2025, 12:11:23 am
I know evans is no amazing player but he goal assisted from jack silvagni going end to end. I see effort from him.
Thats something.
Geez I feel flat. The dogs were there for the taking and we couldn't put them away.
The umps did help them in the end. They got 3 free goals. In an 8 point game that's game winning.
I'm not sure there is much else to say about the game.
I watched ollie hollands gut run for a few mins. Geeze he can cover the ground and works end to end.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 29, 2025, 12:13:18 am
BEST Carlton: Kemp, De Koning, Silvagni, Weitering, Cerra, Curnow Western Bulldogs: Liberatore, Davidson, Darcy, Harmes, Williams, Sanders
Curnow hardly got a touch after half time and Weitering toweled up Darcy!!
Darcy was the difference in the end. You're confusing him with naughton who popped up only when we were gassed.
I thought Williams was their most influential, I felt it was him that kept them in the game and it was his possessions that hurt us the most. Their skipper also played some sort of a game.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 29, 2025, 12:17:49 am
I watched ollie hollands gut run for a few mins. Geeze he can cover the ground and works end to end.
I thought Hollands whilst he covered a lot of ground was ordinary in general. We had 4 of the top 5 for distance covered but they weren't influential I felt their efforts didn't hurt the oppo. Cottrell 15.2 Hollands 15 Doc 14.7 Davidson 14.6 Walsh 14.2
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: crashlander on March 29, 2025, 12:39:17 am
BEST Carlton: Kemp, De Koning, Silvagni, Weitering, Cerra, Curnow Western Bulldogs: Liberatore, Davidson, Darcy, Harmes, Williams, Sanders
Curnow hardly got a touch after half time and Weitering toweled up Darcy!!
Obviously this guy has no idea at all. Darcy was slaughtered. He got a free he should never have got and did NOTHING.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: tonyo on March 29, 2025, 06:40:43 am
We get absolutely nothing from our small forwards, because the ball comes in so slowly that the F50 is jammed by the time it gets there, and they are not talented or fast enough to be much more than witches hats. To compound things, there is very little forward pressure, so the opposition can get it back out to the wings with ease.
At every centre bounce, I look at the half-forward line of Motlop, Cottrell, Evans, Fogarty and the like - a set of midgets against serious running half-backs who chop us up game after game.
We have little or no run out of the backline, and our only strategy is to dump-kick it to the wing and hope for a contest (and based on the midget half-forward line, that gives us little or no hope). Or dump kick it into F50 for an uncontested opposition mark.
I have been saying since mid last year that we need to start playing the kids to try and get some enthusiasm going. We keep putting the same try-hards out there every week, and we get surprised when they come up short yet again? That is Einstein's definition of insanity.
There is no way forward with the team they keep putting out there ATM. Play the kids now.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 29, 2025, 06:53:02 am
We led for 108 minutes. There are clearly issues, but chopping and head hunting will be unlikely to solve them, as our recent history clearly shows.
I agree Paul, but some of the selections are either concerning or are a "no choice". The fact that that the likes of Evans, McGovern, Haynes (despite over 500m gained last night), Acres and Docherty are playing given they are are so horribly out of form is an indictment on our list. We can call for "playing the kids" but yet again, the cupboard is seemingly bare. I am sure if Moir, Binns, Wilson, Lemming were options they would be selected. This is a list management issue. I'll lay London to a brick that if we did play these guys, some of the comments on here about them would be pretty bad. Trading Owies and Kennedy now seems diabolically stupid given where we are at, I suspect both would have been extremely handy in the last 3 games. Our players looked spent at 3/4 time so that's either a high performance team issue or the game plan is too taxing. Personally I think most of the other teams play a faster game with more running however that's just to my eye, I don't have data to back that claim obviously.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Thryleon on March 29, 2025, 07:45:24 am
BEST Carlton: Kemp, De Koning, Silvagni, Weitering, Cerra, Curnow Western Bulldogs: Liberatore, Davidson, Darcy, Harmes, Williams, Sanders
Curnow hardly got a touch after half time and Weitering toweled up Darcy!!
Obviously this guy has no idea at all. Darcy was slaughtered. He got a free he should never have got and did NOTHING.
its funny how people see the game differently at times, but darcy had 17 possessions and 8 marks, and kicked 2 goals 1. If that is a forward getting slaughtered, I wish some of ours would. You can add 329 metres gained which shows he did more work up the ground and was capable of providing separation to our backline and unlock the game. Davidson was influential but when the game was there to be won, darcy kicked goals.
It's not rocket science to me. He was one of the Doggies better players, he isn't doing a 3 2 1.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: BluePhantom on March 29, 2025, 07:58:15 am
Vossy needed to give the Terry Wallace 1996 spray after the game.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 29, 2025, 08:09:03 am
I'm not one for using "players carrying injuries" as an excuse but Cripps didn't look right last night. He seemed to have some padding under his jumper on the RHS, could be a rib injury. Also his knees were heavily strapped at training during the week but had nothing on last night. In any case, when you cross the line you're fit to play.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: kruddler on March 29, 2025, 08:26:50 am
Moir, Two Camporeales, Billy WIlson, try Lemmey at HF. Give White a shot in the F50, can't do any worse .....
Can't do any worse? We've been in all 3 games thus far this season.
Worse was Pagan era when we'd be 6 goals down halfway through the first quarter. And 100 by the end.
Certainly can do worse.....a lot worse.
Lost against two sides we should have beaten in a canter and our second halves suggest we are not fit. Time to mix things up.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Professer E on March 29, 2025, 08:42:49 am
Dunno, it's looking like 2002 all over again... Finishing in the cellar again with NO FIRST ROUND pick again. Mental health has been an issue lately - how about that of us long term followers Carlton ?!? Tired of being a joke club. Oh, and Doc... Kudos for being a survivor though serious health setbacks but seriously mate, enoughs enough.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Micky0 on March 29, 2025, 09:11:57 am
We are spent by the second half because we make constant stupid errors so waste energy time and again trying to fix those. The amount of times there was a wayward kick under zero pressure that caused a turnover which we had to then run back to where we’d just been, were too many to count.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Lods on March 29, 2025, 09:14:42 am
its funny how people see the game differently at times, but darcy had 17 possessions and 8 marks, and kicked 2 goals 1. If that is a forward getting slaughtered, I wish some of ours would. You can add 329 metres gained which shows he did more work up the ground and was capable of providing separation to our backline and unlock the game. Davidson was influential but when the game was there to be won, darcy kicked goals.
It's not rocket science to me. He was one of the Doggies better players, he isn't doing a 3 2 1.
No, Darcy was good. But we held him to a large extent He probably suffered from comparisons with the previous week and our expectations pre match but he certainly wasn't as dominant as we thought he might be.
Curnow was better than last week...but still not showing a great deal of follow up. We just need him to get a few games under his belt. Kemp was very good, as was Silvagni, so going forward we have that swing option developing nicely. It should get better. Motlop remains an 'almost' player. He runs around 'almost' collecting the ball but often over-runs it. I still have hope the ball will start to stick. He made one bad error that probably cost us a goal when he went for a shot from the angle rather than pass to Evans straight in front. That was really the difference again...the forward inefficiency It's been dogging us all year.
Disposal efficiency inside 50 Carlton 33.9% v Bulldogs 47.1% Despite the multiple goalkickers this week that's the worst for the year....but that stat has been in the 30s all year. Last year we averaged 49%+ Until we get a settled forward structure with Harry and Charlie back firing and Jack or Kemp as the third tall that area will be a bother.
Fitness will be an issue talked about this week. I tend to think it's not a team issue as much as an individual issue. Some are giving their all, others are going missing for long periods. TDK has run himself into the ground for most of the year. Cripps the same. Cripps landed heavily at one stage and that seemed to affect him for the rest of the game. I'm not sure others are working as hard. They looked stuffed, as they did in the Hawthorn game, but kept going to the contests. DeKoning was our leading possession winner.
The relief for him is just not effective. He's not getting enough rest. Others are rucking at times, but he's still there at the contests on occasions.
Young was a funny one. At times he looked really good and at others not so hot. There was a bit of a gap between his best and worst last night.
I feel Hewett doesn't get the credit he deserves, but he is one of our most consistent and hard working players week after week.
Boyd should start next week. He gives effort and altough he makes the odd blue he's streets ahead as our best kick of the ball.
Evans will probably go out next week. Williams will also probably miss. That run through the middle last night was electric and he displayed pace I didn't think he had but his injury issues remain a huge concern. One or two of Binns, Moir or Wilson may get a run. But if the VFL form of last week holds up don't expect a big impact. I'd actually give Will White a run based on the Box Hill match or maybe even one of the Camporeale boys ahead of the other trio.
Winning is the key business. We're in the danger zone and losses become more important as the season progresses. We've burnt up a bit of our currency and can't afford too many more...if any. As that slips away folks are starting to talk about another wasted season. I get that. The win/loss column is the measure. The frustration will be even greater if we come with a charge at the end and just fall short.
I'm still convinced the pressure game we play is good enough to beat the best of sides. It's our strength. We haven't got it working at it's best at the moment Other teams have their style humming along nicely. We play a different style to what many teams are employing at the moment but it suits our group. As we saw at times last night it can unsettle an opposition. We just need to tidy up our efficiency and decision making.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: kruddler on March 29, 2025, 09:20:25 am
Can't do any worse? We've been in all 3 games thus far this season.
Worse was Pagan era when we'd be 6 goals down halfway through the first quarter. And 100 by the end.
Certainly can do worse.....a lot worse.
Lost against two sides we should have beaten in a canter and our second halves suggest we are not fit. Time to mix things up.
So your solution is to play kids who have not had a full preseason. That will stop us from fading in games?
Are you thinking about this before you type it?
Playing kids with no experience, no basic fitness base and it can't get worse??
Short memories around here.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Professer E on March 29, 2025, 09:43:55 am
And where's that taking us Kruddler? Just keep playing half fit senior blokes that can't kick or make the right decisions. I'd rather play a half fit kid with upside than a half fit "senior" player who keeps @#$!big up. Mystified why Moir can't get a game in front of some bigger named non performers.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Micky0 on March 29, 2025, 09:50:16 am
Wasn’t expecting 0-3 for this season altho didn’t have any huge expectations either.
Sure there’s some positives, happy for Kemp last night, some fantastic kicks on goal. Young was better but a complete panicked brain fade lost us an easy kick on goal to be taken down their end for a goal 🤦🏻♀️
Was it Walsh or Acres who stuffed two kicks out when we had a run on, directly to the Dogs for goals to them?
Agree with someone earlier, can always rely on Hewitt, thought cerra was good too.
I see Motlop as the cherry on top of a good team, to me he doesn’t have much grunt and aggression.
Why did we trade Owies and Kennedy? With both of those I reckon we would’ve won all 3 games.
It’s a shame and bad luck hollands and H have personal issues but we have no back up for anyone.
Depressing start to the season and Altho yes there are some positives, we are 0-3 to games imo we should’ve won.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Micky0 on March 29, 2025, 09:51:02 am
And where's that taking us Kruddler? Just keep playing half fit senior blokes that can't kick or make the right decisions. I'd rather play a half fit kid with upside than a half fit "senior" player who keeps @#$!big up. Mystified why Moir can't get a game in front of some bigger named non performers.
Totally agree with this, and why was Lord dropped? Honestly at least give us some youthful excitement!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Professer E on March 29, 2025, 09:53:46 am
Yea, throwing away Kennedy was, and still is, a poor decision. Such a handy, team oriented footballer.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Micky0 on March 29, 2025, 09:54:58 am
Oh let’s not forget the Dogs had quite a few of their best out 🤦🏻♀️ that makes it even worse 🙄
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: kruddler on March 29, 2025, 09:56:35 am
And where's that taking us Kruddler? Just keep playing half fit senior blokes that can't kick or make the right decisions. I'd rather play a half fit kid with upside than a half fit "senior" player who keeps @#$!big up. Mystified why Moir can't get a game in front of some bigger named non performers.
We were leading the game at 3/4 time. We were leading the game deeper into the last.
What benefit is mixing things up only to be out of the game at 1/4 time?
Who does that help?
I'm not opposed to giving the odd kid a game, but sweeping changes like playing 6 new kids, half of which with next to no preseason is 100% a worse option.
Bring moir in instead of Evans. Fine. Expect Ben camporeale to outshine someone like acres or docherty.....forget about it. Think lemmey is a viable option to replace harry? Might surprise a few for one game, probably won't.....will be next to useless before he gets 5 games under his belt. I'm not sure he is good enough to be on an afl list. Really don't think he is afl ready.....and he's had years of development so far. Which is more than most of the other alternatives.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Professer E on March 29, 2025, 10:02:56 am
Ok....I get your point but
Evans. Effing hopeless. Motlop. Hard hands, far too slow. Almost player...for three years now Docherty. Hasn't hit a target since 2023. Haynes. WTF? McGovern. Spare me. Williams. Finally get another glimpse then injured again. Cottrell. Still missing targets and playing dumb football. Ditto O.Hollands. love the run but ball use....shudder. Young. For every good thing there's a coach killer.
Walsh. I hate to say it but needs a spell I the twos to learn how to dispose of it again. Horrid this far this year.
That's half the side. Surely there's a wing option or two in the twos to give some of the above a chop out?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Lods on March 29, 2025, 10:05:31 am
Evans was probably our worst last night. Moir was only marginally better in the VFL game last week.
Binns, Wilson, White would all be better inclusions. Even the Camporeales (without a strong pre-season) would be ahead of him.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: kruddler on March 29, 2025, 10:06:13 am
Evans. Effing hopeless. Motlop. Hard hands, far too slow. Almost player...for three years now Docherty. Hasn't hit a target since 2023. Haynes. WTF? McGovern. Spare me. Williams. Finally get another glimpse then injured again. Cottrell. Still missing targets and playing dumb football. Ditto O.Hollands. love the run but ball use....shudder. Young. For every good thing there's a coach killer.
Walsh. I hate to say it but needs a spell I the twos to learn how to dispose of it again. Horrid this far this year.
That's half the side. Surely there's a wing option or two in the twos to give some of the above a chop out?
Go through your list above and put through a viable option from our list to replace them with next to them.
It doesn't have to be a different player for each of them either. Just whoever is the best for for that player. Eg lord might be next to 5 names.
Then let me know how many changes we can actually make.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Thryleon on March 29, 2025, 10:22:29 am
Yep there's not much option I'm afraid.
The biggest reason we are all spewing is that the team is struggling with our best mix of available accomplished talent on the park vs teams that aren't exactly fit and firing, and the youthful exuberance isn't there either.
Our better performers are generally ok, they've got better in them, but not sure they're down for any other reason than the whole team is.
For those talking about Kennedy, there was a moment 3rd quarter that summarised why we let him go. Walsh danced past him like he wasn't there. Turned him inside out. He's a solid but unspectacular player and he and cripps can't play in the same midfield and expect to win things. He's complimentary to the dogs but they had to shed mccrae to fit him in.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LordLucifer on March 29, 2025, 10:46:57 am
Have a read of this :
Quote
The Blues coach wasn’t fretting despite a 0-3 start to the season, suggesting there would be a greater focus on what needs to be “reinforced” to build better habits, as opposed to changing things up.
“In the context of the season, we’re at the start, so there’s plenty of runway,” he said.
“But we’ve also got feedback to suggest we’ve got to get better. We’ve got some real parts of our game that are a bit more obvious than others.
“When you watch us play and see the better parts of our games, it’s worth persisting with. But the message will be pretty simple from me, make sure we get really clear on our roles, continue to keep playing us and at the right times we need to put composure in games and we’ll keep coaching it.”
I've never read such a trumped up load of bullsh1t in my life.
Instead of admitting the facts, just trot out a heap of pure deflection & obfuscation.
This to me is a strong sign that our coach hasn't got any more tricks in his kitbag & is just making up excuses to make it sound like he does.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: kruddler on March 29, 2025, 10:53:06 am
The Blues coach wasn’t fretting despite a 0-3 start to the season, suggesting there would be a greater focus on what needs to be “reinforced” to build better habits, as opposed to changing things up.
“In the context of the season, we’re at the start, so there’s plenty of runway,” he said.
“But we’ve also got feedback to suggest we’ve got to get better. We’ve got some real parts of our game that are a bit more obvious than others.
“When you watch us play and see the better parts of our games, it’s worth persisting with. But the message will be pretty simple from me, make sure we get really clear on our roles, continue to keep playing us and at the right times we need to put composure in games and we’ll keep coaching it.”
I've never read such a trumped up load of bullsh1t in my life.
Instead of admitting the facts, just trot out a heap of pure deflection & obfuscation.
This to me is a strong sign that our coach hasn't got any more tricks in his kitbag & is just making up excuses to make it sound like he does.
....and this reaction from you in the reason these things need to be made because people can't see past a simple 0-3 column.
Last years premiers had the same
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Blue Moon on March 29, 2025, 11:13:43 am
Other than Harry and Charlie, the last player to kick five goals in a game for Carlton was Matthew Wright I believe. My one criticism of Jack as a forward was he never kicked a bag but he looked very comfortable down back last night. Our mantra going forward in the near future when we are going forward should be kick it to Kemp. Having two or three people hanging off Curnow andM McKay means he should be free. We lost faith in picking the best option and kept banging it to Charlie when under pressure. When we sent it to Young and Kemp we looked so much more dangerous. The problem of our forward line is demonstrated by the fact 10 of our 11 goals came from our tall forwards and only one, our first, came from a small forward in Motlop. Nothing from our midfield and nothing from running goals. Motlop, Moir and E.Hollands all look like they can kick goals as does Williams if he can stay fit. This would be my forward line. Even though Haynes played better, I still don't think there is any future in him, Evans, Docherty, or McGovern, who continues to do stupid things each week. Young has shown he can play forward, back and in the ruck but cannot seem to be able to do any of them consistently. He makes bad decisions and his skills let him down but he is the perfect backup big man to have on your list. I like to have a 200cm defender and I would like to see Lemmey given the opportunity. I would like to see Cowan become a running half back in the Ange Christou -- Kevin Hall mould. I thought we became more vulnerable to D50 stoppages when O.Hollands went up the ground after Williams got injured and Boyd came on. I think our back seven should be Silvagni, Cowan, O.Hollands, Weitering, Saad, Boyd and Lemmey over Young. Our midfield lacks pace but if we are going to play Walsh, Cripps, Cerra, Hewitt and Acres, which we should, then the last two spots should go to players with some pace. I would be looking at Wilson and Binns until the Camporeale boys are ready. The Sub should always be someone who has pace.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Lods on March 29, 2025, 11:22:26 am
It's that 0-3 figure that has folks worked up. And we really can't ignore the importance of the win/loss. It gets more important with every passing week, But if we'd got over the line last night the thread would be completely different
There would still be criticism of players like Haynes -17 kicks, 10 marks (best on the ground) 521 metres gained (most by a Carlton player) but the poor disposal efficiency (59%) would have outweighed all that for a lot of folks ;) But generally the thread would be a lot more positive. It was an important game in the scheme of things.
Here's a question though....Does anyone think our general play, effort and intensity hasn't seen an improvement each week . The Richmond loss was a shocker. Following that we were expected to be blown away by the Hawks...we were better, and the margin was nowhere near what some folks expected. We were underdogs for the Bulldogs game. Last night we led for around a 100 minutes. The effort and intensity was much better and in the end it couldn't be maintained. Once again inefficiency at crucial times cost us the game.
I'm not happy with 0-3 but I am happy to see effort, pressure and improvement. Our defence is holding up really well- Scores against 82, 80,83 We're getting plenty of forward opportunities...lots of inside 50s The forward structure and efficiency is where we are losing games
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Micky0 on March 29, 2025, 11:49:29 am
I do like your optimism and agree the effort and pressure night was excellent.
But we get exhausted because we don’t get bang for our buck with our possessions. Why can not one player drill a kick into our f50 to a leading forward? Honestly I don’t believe there was one direct kick - just big high kicks banged in. Can’t recall who it was but kicked into - i think Young in the 50 - and the kick was so slow and high that of course it gave ample opp for the defenders to get to it! The kick was under zero pressure also! Drives me nuts, that’s skill errors!
Sure Haynes might have those figures but I also saw plenty of piss poor effort from him and no tough commanding play at all! He is a senior player ffs, stand up!
And not sure what is worse - McG having time to think or not - you can never rely on him consistently.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: shawny on March 29, 2025, 11:50:27 am
Same old same old. Games we pencil in as wins preseason we find excuses for when we fail. Year after year after year. We blame injuries we blame luck we blame umpires, we blame thet coach but IMO the reality is our list is overrated by fans and some in the media that like to talk us up based on one decent year making it to a prelim in 23. That years results were the worst result for the club as they bought into all the hype and thought just resign all 'the star players' allow for natural improvement and we are there. WRONG !
We have at best 9-10 genuine top level players in Cripps Weitering, TDK, a decent gap to Charlie, Harry, Jack, Cerra, Hewitt, Kemp and maybe Walsh. The balance of the list is where the issues lie as this group shows flashes of brilliance when it's going our way but the minute the pressure is turned up they and some in the top list too make dumb decisions and just can't execute despite their best efforts and why we get over run time and time again when the opposition turn up the heat. We are known in the industry to go to water when the heat is applied.
You can change the coach if you want but if the list demographic doesn't improve is just doing the Carlton thing again where we get a small sugar fix before returning back to an underachieving club.
I said it after R1 - where too from here is my question. Do we change tack and go backwards again to a mini rebuild or get older blokes in who have 2-3 years left to try upgrade the bottom tier on our list?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: JonDorotich on March 29, 2025, 12:01:02 pm
I really don’t think that we could have played much better given our game plan and the troops on the ground.
Haynes was ok last night and his one notable clanger resulted from Walsh hand passing to him when he was under immense pressure - that’s on Walsh.
Notwithstanding a couple of goals from Young, the group of Evans, Young, McGovern and now unfortunately Docherty won’t take us forward and as others have said we’ll need to experiment - more tweaks than wholesale changes.
Players that I’d like to introduce are as follows - Matt Carroll for Docherty/Williams (if injured). Looks like he can play and has some dash. - Corey Durdin or Ashton Moir for Evans. Durdin was a very exciting prospect only 2 years ago and Moir has class that’s hard to come by but needs to lift his intensity - Binns or Wilson or Campo or Lord based on form. - Lemmey for Young/Mckay - I’m not at all sold on Lemmey but we all know that Young is not the answer, so worth a try.
McGovern is a hard one / we all look at him and see pace, ability to intercept and distribute but the reality is that he simply can’t hold structure and his decision making is appalling -Silvagni, Weitering and Haynes provide enough tall cover down back, with the run of Saad, Carroll, Boyd and potentially Binns or Wilson. We need some young boys to stand up.
A forward line of Lemmey or Mackay, Curnow, Kemp, Moir/Motlop, Durdin, Fog is better.
Getting Evans, Yoiung, McGovern and Docherty out of the side may help and we’ll then need to clear out Fanatasia, Haynes along with these guys at year end. Hollands is just a player/very average and if we’re any good he won’t be making the side.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Thryleon on March 29, 2025, 12:16:42 pm
The only adequate replacement for Williams is lij hollands.
The rest are hail Mary's with only will white an unknown quantity. Moir is a second year player with currently a light body and minimal tank.
Until our season is completely dead we need to reward effort and form as much as possible and now it's on those on the cusp to come to the party, press for selection and perform once in.
Look no further than Lewis Young for the example. He's thus far been mich better than anyone thought this season, because he's giving it a red hot go. Where are the others? It's why I'm not bagging out Evans. He's on his 3rd club, he's occupying spot 46 on the list because players further up it have been ruled out for the year. If he's playing we have no other options that are doing their bit. He's an easy target to bag for the right reasons, but doesn't deserve the ire. Go higher up the list. Mcgovern was one that really was found wanting yesterday late. Dropped a couple of efforts that he's usually safe with and we couldn't get the ball in hand.
We are desperately missing Newman.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Bluesers on March 29, 2025, 12:37:06 pm
The Blues coach wasn’t fretting despite a 0-3 start to the season, suggesting there would be a greater focus on what needs to be “reinforced” to build better habits, as opposed to changing things up.
“In the context of the season, we’re at the start, so there’s plenty of runway,” he said.
“But we’ve also got feedback to suggest we’ve got to get better. We’ve got some real parts of our game that are a bit more obvious than others.
“When you watch us play and see the better parts of our games, it’s worth persisting with. But the message will be pretty simple from me, make sure we get really clear on our roles, continue to keep playing us and at the right times we need to put composure in games and we’ll keep coaching it.”
I've never read such a trumped up load of bullsh1t in my life.
Instead of admitting the facts, just trot out a heap of pure deflection & obfuscation.
This to me is a strong sign that our coach hasn't got any more tricks in his kitbag & is just making up excuses to make it sound like he does.
100%. And this is the same bs he's been spewing out for the past 18 months or so. He's right up there with federal pollies - can talk lots of white noise and spin for 10-15 minutes but actually say Sweet FA. Twelve months or so ago I was slowly coming around to MV, but now that's all out the window. He has no answers, that's plainly obvious... 2 wins from last 12? People keep making excuses here - diehard fans, so that's understandable - the time for reasons and excuses is long gone. MV and Austin need to go, no question. What they've been doing isn't working. We couldn't beat the expected wooden spooners, we couldn't beat Dogs who had some of their best players out. Skills, fitness, players decision making and execution all seem to be lacking, if not the full game, then large portions of. We can only work with what we've got, but reality is this list isn't going to make top 8. Time to reset after another failed rebuild.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 29, 2025, 12:53:49 pm
The Blues coach wasn’t fretting despite a 0-3 start to the season, suggesting there would be a greater focus on what needs to be “reinforced” to build better habits, as opposed to changing things up.
“In the context of the season, we’re at the start, so there’s plenty of runway,” he said.
“But we’ve also got feedback to suggest we’ve got to get better. We’ve got some real parts of our game that are a bit more obvious than others.
“When you watch us play and see the better parts of our games, it’s worth persisting with. But the message will be pretty simple from me, make sure we get really clear on our roles, continue to keep playing us and at the right times we need to put composure in games and we’ll keep coaching it.”
I've never read such a trumped up load of bullsh1t in my life.
Instead of admitting the facts, just trot out a heap of pure deflection & obfuscation.
This to me is a strong sign that our coach hasn't got any more tricks in his kitbag & is just making up excuses to make it sound like he does.
So what should he do?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Micky0 on March 29, 2025, 01:03:11 pm
Side note - not Carlton related - to lift the depression a little watch Giddeys amazing last 12 seconds for the Bulls last night 👏🏽
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Bluesers on March 29, 2025, 01:10:03 pm
I've never read such a trumped up load of bullsh1t in my life.
Instead of admitting the facts, just trot out a heap of pure deflection & obfuscation.
This to me is a strong sign that our coach hasn't got any more tricks in his kitbag & is just making up excuses to make it sound like he does.
So what should he do?
How about say something truthful and meaningful for a start? Stop spruiking the nonsensical 'little green shoots' BS like that other unmentionable waste of time we had. Show us a bit of the old MV player mongrel and fight, and not the current 'MV I've got no real answers and I'm fearful of losing my job' Coach. The fans don't want that. Show some anger, show some grit and determination that can transfer to the team.!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Bluesers on March 29, 2025, 01:11:47 pm
Side note - not Carlton related - to lift the depression a little watch Giddeys amazing last 12 seconds for the Bulls last night 👏🏽
yep, he's really firing, maybe MV can recruit him
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Baggers on March 29, 2025, 01:41:42 pm
After 1/4 time... 7gls to 12gls.
I hope we're playing the long game... ease gradually into the season so as to be at our best August/September. If I say that to myself enough I may even convince myself it's true. **Cough, splutter**
Caution Bambies... here I come. Walsh was a liability. Acres disposal efficiency was not much better than 30%. Ollie looks lost. Doc, just sad to watch. Evans is one-dimensional, good (not great) defensively, then crickets and tumbleweeds. Don't know where Motlop and Fog are at. Gov is barely adequate - has lost offensive flair. Cerra seemed to be just a good average player in this game.
The 'same old, same old' file added another page - once the opposition upped the anti after 1/4 time we were good honest battlers with a few special moments, PLUS... too many passengers.
On the upside. Club was spot on with persisting with Kemp up forward and JSOS down back - both were great. TDK terrific, again. Weiters terrific, again. Haynes getting better. Hewett, good. Young silenced a few critics - honest effort. Losing Williams was significant. Boyd valuable once he came on.
To be honest, I just don't know what we are. Just a bunch of really honest, hard-working triers with some terrific moments let down badly by the bottom six to eight players? Are we back in the honourable losses and brave efforts niche? Making the 8 seems miles away.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Thryleon on March 29, 2025, 02:08:20 pm
I dont have the answers but watching and playing for this club is hard work at the minute. Maybe it's just as simple as things are challenging at the moment, and when you're not enjoying your footy the results are what we see. Truthfully I can't think of a player that didn't try, we just executed really poorly when the game was there to be won.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: shawny on March 29, 2025, 02:39:22 pm
Just a bunch of really honest, hard-working triers with some terrific moments let down badly by the bottom six to eight players? Are we back in the honourable losses and brave efforts niche? Making the 8 seems miles away.
Nailed it.
We were sold a slow long to cut to the bone rebuild to have sustained deep finals action for 4-5 years with the hope of getting a few flags while in that window. Well its a failure as that is clearly not going to happen without wholesale changes to the list and if TDK leaves we have another hole in it to fill.
30 years between flags and still look miles off.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: JonDorotich on March 29, 2025, 03:32:05 pm
Just a bunch of really honest, hard-working triers with some terrific moments let down badly by the bottom six to eight players? Are we back in the honourable losses and brave efforts niche? Making the 8 seems miles away.
Nailed it.
We were sold a slow long to cut to the bone rebuild to have sustained deep finals action for 4-5 years with the hope of getting a few flags while in that window. Well its a failure as that is clearly not going to happen without wholesale changes to the list and if TDK leaves we have another hole in it to fill.
30 years between flags and still look miles off.
We’re hard to beat but not good enough to win
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 29, 2025, 03:45:53 pm
We were sold a slow long to cut to the bone rebuild to have sustained deep finals action for 4-5 years with the hope of getting a few flags while in that window. Well its a failure as that is clearly not going to happen without wholesale changes to the list and if TDK leaves we have another hole in it to fill.
30 years between flags and still look miles off.
We’re hard to beat but not good enough to win
I wouldn't call us hard to beat at the moment.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Slowhand on March 29, 2025, 04:14:58 pm
Just about to turn 65 and bleed Navy Blue. I'm lucky I can still remember 95 and the good years.
I love this site and value everyone's comments and insights.
I still believe we will come good and make the 8. It's the last 14 games and finals that really count. See Bris last year.... We just heed a scalp and all will change. I hope it's roast magpie . We could of won all three games, just disappointed that we lack the killer blow. I'm just watching the Suntan Boys totality destroy the mighty Dee's. You think we are in trouble. See Melbourne... at least we put in an effort.
I'm no football expert, played and coached like most my age. If we fail this year, like most are saying, I honestly don't no which direction our club will go. Do they sack the coach or back him in, Do go after a quick fix, Do we rebuild......... We are Carlton..
My 5 cents:
I have total confidence in the coach. I have total confidence in the CEO and the incoming Mr Wright....
Recruiting
Totally agree with the trades to get Jagga. You all know our luck with injuries. Enough said. So the panel is still out this year. If you want to be the best you need the best Football knowledge working for you. The last 15 years has been average to say the least. I dont have the answer, I hope Mr Wright has.
Player Development
Very average in the past. Hopefully having a fitter list and our VFL playing 20 odd games we can develope a few kids. I have confidence Mr Power and Ebert. Some of the kids heed a good feed and introduce themselves to the Bench press O0
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on March 29, 2025, 04:25:29 pm
Think we tried hard but don't have the extra talent once other teams reestablish themselves in the game. At half time I knew we were in trouble as they were mounting a comeback and we struggle when teams fightback and we capitulate eventually. Kemp was probably a positive in a game where goals were hard to get, and Cripps, TDk plugged away with Weitering and Jack containing Darcy and Naughton. Sad to see Kennedy in a Dogs outfit and our mate Liam Jones would have been handy too, still got no idea why Evans and Haynes were recruited....
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: kruddler on March 29, 2025, 05:27:06 pm
Sad to see Kennedy in a Dogs outfit and our mate Liam Jones would have been handy too, still got no idea why Evans and Haynes were recruited....
Yep for mine, Liam Jones is exactly what we are lacking. We haven't done squat to replace him since we left. Only thing of note was getting Young in for either pick 52 or SPS, whichever way you want to look at it.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: shawny on March 29, 2025, 06:01:38 pm
Most on here bagged the crap out of Jones for not taking the covid shots and didn't him at the club. He is exactly what we need right now to fill that void. Dumb
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Professer E on March 29, 2025, 06:04:19 pm
SPS... More nightmare recruiting
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: PaulP on March 29, 2025, 06:18:12 pm
Most on here bagged the crap out of Jones for not taking the covid shots and didn't him at the club. He is exactly what we need right now to fill that void. Dumb
He put himself and his dopey conspiracy theories before the team, in the middle of a pandemic. Whether we need him now or not is by the bye. There should be room for individuality and players having different values, but some things are not negotiable. I'm glad the club took a stand.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: shawny on March 29, 2025, 07:19:14 pm
Most on here bagged the crap out of Jones for not taking the covid shots and didn't him at the club. He is exactly what we need right now to fill that void. Dumb
He put himself and his dopey conspiracy theories before the team, in the middle of a pandemic. Whether we need him now or not is by the bye. There should be room for individuality and players having different values, but some things are not negotiable. I'm glad the club took a stand.
Im not glad at all. We had the player we now desperately and let him walk out the door. Swap jones with Young last week and we likely win. Massive c0ckup.
Geelong and Richmond to name a few both have/had players on there list charged with a serious crime but they do what is best for there team and supporters and work around the situation until the know the result.
We play judge and jury and lose a player we couldn't afford to lose but on the flip side we are expected to full support a player with a drug and say we all need to support them and wrap our arms around them.
Double standards.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: kruddler on March 29, 2025, 07:23:55 pm
He put himself and his dopey conspiracy theories before the team, in the middle of a pandemic. Whether we need him now or not is by the bye. There should be room for individuality and players having different values, but some things are not negotiable. I'm glad the club took a stand.
Im not glad at all. We had the player we now desperately and let him walk out the door. Swap jones with Young last week and we likely win. Massive c0ckup.
Geelong and Richmond to name a few both have/had players on there list charged with a serious crime but they do what is best for there team and supporters and work around the situation until the know the result.
We play judge and jury and lose a player we couldn't afford to lose but on the flip side we are expected to full support a player with a drug and say we all need to support them and wrap our arms around them.
Double standards.
Jones leaving hurt us and continues to hurt us. However, under no circumstances do I wish the club do anything other than what they did. The uproar it would've caused, media attention, loss of sponsors etc. Not worth it.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: PaulP on March 29, 2025, 07:28:31 pm
Im not glad at all. We had the player we now desperately and let him walk out the door. Swap jones with Young last week and we likely win. Massive c0ckup.
Geelong and Richmond to name a few both have/had players on there list charged with a serious crime but they do what is best for there team and supporters and work around the situation until the know the result.
We play judge and jury and lose a player we couldn't afford to lose but on the flip side we are expected to full support a player with a drug and say we all need to support them and wrap our arms around them.
Double standards.
I doubt very much that our three losses have anything to do with Jones. Our most successful years since 2002 have been 2022, 2023 and 2024. I'm not in any way suggesting that it's because we got rid of Jones, merely pointing out that we don't need him specifically to be successful.
Supporting Elijah Hollands and moving on Jones is not even remotely an example of double standards IMO.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Baggers on March 29, 2025, 07:36:29 pm
He put himself and his dopey conspiracy theories before the team, in the middle of a pandemic. Whether we need him now or not is by the bye. There should be room for individuality and players having different values, but some things are not negotiable. I'm glad the club took a stand.
Im not glad at all. We had the player we now desperately and let him walk out the door. Swap jones with Young last week and we likely win. Massive c0ckup.
Geelong and Richmond to name a few both have/had players on there list charged with a serious crime but they do what is best for there team and supporters and work around the situation until the know the result.
We play judge and jury and lose a player we couldn't afford to lose but on the flip side we are expected to full support a player with a drug and say we all need to support them and wrap our arms around them.
Double standards.
Comparing supporting someone with an addiction, let's say, and someone who refuses to be vaccinated based on a conspiracy theory is like comparing a bicycle with a fish (thank you Irina Dunn and/or Gloria Steinham).
And suggesting we would have been better off last night with Jones instead of Young... holy mackerel... maybe if we had Doull instead of Jones, or Southby, or SOS or... Drawing on a really long bow there, Shawny, maybe a bow a few kilometres long!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: shawny on March 29, 2025, 07:45:21 pm
Swap Jones for Young against hawthorn and take him out of dogs and into our team this week and would likely be different result. Seriously guys do you want to win a flag or not. We needed him we had him and we let him walk out the door.
But then we agree to still take E hollands when he was found guilty with a bag of coke over a clean young player with no records
And is now missing games……..
so all those who wee happy with the Jones decision must be livid with the E Hollands acquisition and must hate the fact the club is saying we all need to support him.
He also put himself his teammates didn't he?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: PaulP on March 29, 2025, 07:48:58 pm
Comparing supporting someone with an addiction, let's say, and someone who refuses to be vaccinated based on a conspiracy theory is like comparing a bicycle with a fish (thank you Irina Dunn and/or Gloria Steinham).
And suggesting we would have been better off last night with Jones instead of Young... holy mackerel... maybe if we had Doull instead of Jones, or Southby, or SOS or... Drawing on a really long bow there, Shawny, maybe a bow a few kilometres long!
I think that’s right Baggers. Anti-vaxxers don’t have a condition. They simply need to listen to folks with years of relevant training and not bloody Joe Rogan, RFK Jr, Mel Gibson et al.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LP on March 29, 2025, 07:51:32 pm
Jones and Carlton had to comply with the regulations of the time, the problem as I see it was that the AFL didn't offer suitable / sensible compensation.
I'm not sure Jones offers more than Weitering, yet it must have been soul destroying to Weiters, he must have felt deserted!
We have been butchering the ball for 6 months now, but not so much our D50 crew, I doubt Jones would improve that record if added to D50, at least from what I remember of him in navy blue, certain forum members bemoaned his chaos and poor efficiency including me, I wonder who else had if we made the search! ;)
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: shawny on March 29, 2025, 07:53:03 pm
Im not glad at all. We had the player we now desperately and let him walk out the door. Swap jones with Young last week and we likely win. Massive c0ckup.
Geelong and Richmond to name a few both have/had players on there list charged with a serious crime but they do what is best for there team and supporters and work around the situation until the know the result.
We play judge and jury and lose a player we couldn't afford to lose but on the flip side we are expected to full support a player with a drug and say we all need to support them and wrap our arms around them.
Double standards.
Comparing supporting someone with an addiction, let's say, and someone who refuses to be vaccinated based on a conspiracy theory is like comparing a bicycle with a fish (thank you Irina Dunn and/or Gloria Steinham).
And suggesting we would have been better off last night with Jones instead of Young... holy mackerel... maybe if we had Doull instead of Jones, or Southby, or SOS or... Drawing on a really long bow there, Shawny, maybe a bow a few kilometres long!
Doull southby etc is being silly baggers. we had L jones and we let him go to the opposition and now we are complain about having no second tall. If you want to accept the clubs decision to let him go thats fine but i don’t. I am desperate for success and Jones would have been a massive upgrade on what we have.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LP on March 29, 2025, 07:59:31 pm
Last night as far as I can tell, our main blunders came forward of centre, maybe I'm biased but we had the Dogs wide open multiple times and gave the pill back from near or inside the F50 arc and it hurts us on the rebound.
Fans would be complaining about Jones and Kennedy, but the bloke we needed last night was Owies.
Most of Jones opportunities last night can from horrendous ball use decisions, bombing the ball high and long from the wing or HFF deep into pockets or to CHF for example.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: rocky on March 29, 2025, 08:31:51 pm
Last night as far as I can tell, our main blunders can forward of centre, maybe I'm biased but we had the Dogs wide open multiple times and gave the pill back from near or inside the F50 arc and it hurts us on the rebound.
Fans would be complaining about Jones and Kennedy, but the bloke we needed last night was Owies.
Most of Jones opportunities last night can from horrendous ball use decisions, bombing the ball high and long from the wing or HFF deep into pockets or to CHB for example.
Owies rd 1 11 disp 1 goal rd 2 13 disp 0 goals
Yeah, he definitely would have been the difference. Give it a rest. He's basically producing what Motlop has. And just on Kennedy, ask yourself this. Would George Hewett be having the year he is with Kennedy still at Carlton? Wasn't happy with Kennedy's departure but understood we can't have all 3 of Cripps, Hewett and Kennedy. Too similar. Happy with George's year to date. As far as Jones goes "F" him. Hate anti-vaxers and I wish they would all catch a horrible disease from something they could have vaccinated against and die.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LP on March 29, 2025, 08:34:22 pm
Owies is not a match winner, but he is a finisher and good ball user if you can generate enough opportunities, he won't get that at Wet Toast they are rebuilding.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Baggers on March 29, 2025, 08:34:57 pm
Comparing supporting someone with an addiction, let's say, and someone who refuses to be vaccinated based on a conspiracy theory is like comparing a bicycle with a fish (thank you Irina Dunn and/or Gloria Steinham).
And suggesting we would have been better off last night with Jones instead of Young... holy mackerel... maybe if we had Doull instead of Jones, or Southby, or SOS or... Drawing on a really long bow there, Shawny, maybe a bow a few kilometres long!
Doull southby etc is being silly baggers. we had L jones and we let him go to the opposition and now we are complain about having no second tall. If you want to accept the clubs decision to let him go thats fine but i don’t. I am desperate for success and Jones would have been a massive upgrade on what we have.
My point is, why pine for someone we don't have and won't get... serves no useful purpose.
Remember, Jones made the decision he did (his right) and knew the risks/potential outcomes of such a decision.
I think it's time to let that situation go. Pointless, and will actually change zero. Perhaps more productive to reflect on 45 or so blokes we have and who might join us in the future?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LP on March 29, 2025, 08:37:50 pm
Yeah, he definitely would have been the difference. Give it a rest. He's basically producing what Motlop has.
I suggest you watch the replay and look for blokes hang back off the footy in the last 4 or 5 minutes, when we had to get the footy and score to win, there were a few blokes watching.
Fans cook a player like Hollands for mistakes but at least he was attacking the ball, and making a contest, the ones you want to have a problem with are those hanging back off the contest waiting to receive, they didn't make a mistake because they didn't make an attempt! ;)
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: rocky on March 29, 2025, 08:49:57 pm
Owies is not a match winner, but he is a finisher and good ball user if you can generate enough opportunities, he won't get that at Wet Toast they are rebuilding.
Pffft, like he'll get more of those opportunities playing for the rabble that we are at the moment. You are delusional if you think a bloke like Owies would make any difference and is a typical knee-jerk reaction most people adopt when a team is, well quite simply carp.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: rocky on March 29, 2025, 08:51:44 pm
Yeah, he definitely would have been the difference. Give it a rest. He's basically producing what Motlop has.
I suggest you watch the replay and look for blokes hang back off the footy in the last 4 or 5 minutes, when we had to get the footy and score to win, there were a few blokes watching.
Fans cook a player like Hollands for mistakes but at least he was attacking the ball, and making a contest, the ones you want to have a problem with are those hanging back off the contest waiting to receive, they didn't make a mistake because they didn't make an attempt! ;)
I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about so you'll have to dumb it down for me as I've had a couple of wines
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Thryleon on March 29, 2025, 09:01:43 pm
The jab status going into public domain is the issue. It is and should be none of our business and people should have been allowed to make their own decisions regarding it.
Same should apply to everyone everywhere. What someone else did had no bearing on my decision to get jabbed and vice versa. This rigidness dot points our pandemic response issues.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: shawny on March 29, 2025, 09:06:06 pm
The jab status going into public domain is the issue. It is and should be none of our business and people should have been allowed to make their own decisions regarding it.
Same should apply to everyone everywhere. What someone else did had no bearing on my decision to get jabbed and vice versa. This rigidness dot points our pandemic response issues.
Spot on.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: shawny on March 29, 2025, 09:14:38 pm
Doull southby etc is being silly baggers. we had L jones and we let him go to the opposition and now we are complain about having no second tall. If you want to accept the clubs decision to let him go thats fine but i don’t. I am desperate for success and Jones would have been a massive upgrade on what we have.
My point is, why pine for someone we don't have and won't get... serves no useful purpose.
Remember, Jones made the decision he did (his right) and knew the risks/potential outcomes of such a decision.
I think it's time to let that situation go. Pointless, and will actually change zero. Perhaps more productive to reflect on 45 or so blokes we have and who might join us in the future?
i do it baggers cause im bloody frustrated mate at our current position after waiting 10 plus years for this rebuild to bear fruit. Our once great club hasnt fired a shot in 30 years and we should be focused on doing everything and anything in our power to get better and a decision like that can drop you back a peg or 2 and considering our current predicament its salt in a old wound.
Anyhow watching the hawks GWS game and my gosh i hate the Hawks. Cant stand em
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LoveNavy on March 29, 2025, 09:40:05 pm
Anyhow watching the hawks GWS game and my gosh i hate the Hawks. Cant stand em
I dont like them either but by golly can they play.
i know and thats what sh1ts me. They have had their moment and this period should be ours not theirs again!! They are a ruthless club that refuse to be bottom dwellers and find ways to short cut to success while we make excuses why we fail.
its sad. 😔
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LoveNavy on March 29, 2025, 10:13:45 pm
I dont have the answers but watching and playing for this club is hard work at the minute. Maybe it's just as simple as things are challenging at the moment, and when you're not enjoying your footy the results are what we see. Truthfully I can't think of a player that didn't try, we just executed really poorly when the game was there to be won.
Agreed. My guess about what Vossy calls lack of composure: Panic. Some might call it perceived pressure. I think R1 was a shock and big blow to confidence. This may in turn permeate individual, team, coaching, and even performance factors insidiously. Effectively when the oppo turn up the heat, we melt 🫠
I think this mindset can shift with the right intervention. BTW Abusive fans are not part of any intervention.
Oh, and having forwards and mids kicking goals would naturally reduce said pressure. I found it amusing that 7 of our 11 goals were kicked by last year's defenders. 4 goalkickers in a game against an injury hit team isn't going to quell pressure.
Go Blues
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LP on March 29, 2025, 10:50:22 pm
The jab status going into public domain is the issue.
@Thryleon Didn't it surface later that the leak actually came from Jones' side of the debate, everything went quiet?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Thryleon on March 29, 2025, 10:51:51 pm
I'm not sure but if we all just said everyone got jabbed would anyone know any different?
It's a mess.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LP on March 29, 2025, 10:56:43 pm
We had more I50s than the Dogs, but in those entries we were 30% less efficient, that's huge, games typically swing on just 5% or 10% difference!
Our problem wasn't getting it inside F50, our problem was not scoring when it was there!
And no it wasn't because of Liam Jones, he had a grand total of 7 disposals and just 4 marks the 6th lowest AFL rating of all players on the ground including ours. So I'm not sure what some fans want to see, if we want to throw rocks at a former player, Kennedy was far more influential as he rated top 8!
Jones wouldn't have helped us because our problem was at the other end of the ground, I heard on radio our last quarters are the lowest scoring of any side in the AFL with the biggest last quarter differential!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LP on March 29, 2025, 10:59:35 pm
I'm not sure but if we all just said everyone got jabbed would anyone know any different?
It's a mess.
People are the mess, they are unpredictable, unreliable, hypocritical, they game both sides of any debated issue for political and personal gain. It's not always the fault of "The System!"
The advice is to never bet on something involving or dependant on people, for a very good reason!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Micky0 on March 30, 2025, 01:18:02 am
Geez we’re really rewriting our history about Jones 🤦 besides being a selfish anti vaxxer, he also was not reliable and used to fly for stupid marks and take out other players! But now suddenly not having him is why we’re losing!?
Our problem is previous and current recruiting, and some bad luck with injuries for the past few years.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: kruddler on March 30, 2025, 05:23:54 am
Geez we’re really rewriting our history about Jones 🤦 besides being a selfish anti vaxxer, he also was not reliable and used to fly for stupid marks and take out other players! But now suddenly not having him is why we’re losing!?
Our problem is previous and current recruiting, and some bad luck with injuries for the past few years.
Thank you.
I started this Jones thing (i think) and it was done to point out that I believed he would be more important to our team structure compared to Kennedy.
It was also done to point out that our recruiting department has been sitting on their hands since. Forget about how important each individual player was. Forget about why we don't have these players. Focus on the hole that was left behind and neglected since.
Having a 2nd tall reliable kpd allows us to drasticallynalter the way we play and the way we setup. Jones, like weitering, can play tall and smaller. They can zone or they can lock down. Brain fades can occur, but ultimately it provides us with a better 22 than we have currently that gives us more.matcb day options than we have currently.
We have had at least 2 losses because the opposition has taken weitering out of the game when it mattered. That doesn't happen when you have a reliable 2IC to help him out.
Fix this and we drastically improve. Haynes isn't the answer. Sos isn't the answer. Young isn't the answer.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LP on March 30, 2025, 07:53:49 am
Geez we’re really rewriting our history about Jones 🤦 besides being a selfish anti vaxxer, he also was not reliable and used to fly for stupid marks and take out other players! But now suddenly not having him is why we’re losing!?
Our problem is previous and current recruiting, and some bad luck with injuries for the past few years.
@Micky0 Some readers might not get your sarcasm and cynicism about Jones, either by accident or deliberately.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Baggers on March 30, 2025, 10:27:35 am
We had more I50s than the Dogs, but in those entries we were 30% less efficient, that's huge, games typically swing on just 5% or 10% difference!
Our problem wasn't getting it inside F50, our problem was not scoring when it was there!
And no it wasn't because of Liam Jones, he had a grand total of 7 disposals and just 4 marks the 6th lowest AFL rating of all players on the ground including ours. So I'm not sure what some fans want to see, if we want to throw rocks at a former player, Kennedy was far more influential as he rated top 8!
Jones wouldn't have helped us because our problem was at the other end of the ground, I heard on radio our last quarters are the lowest scoring of any side in the AFL with the biggest last quarter differential!
Great post, Spotted One. Nailed.
Yes, the irrelevancy of dwelling on past errors you covered nicely.
Our problems, right here right now, are in our terribly inefficient and inadequate forward line, which you also covered nicely. And it really is no more complicated than that.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: kruddler on March 30, 2025, 10:32:40 am
Yes, the irrelevancy of dwelling on past errors you covered nicely.
Our problems, right here right now, are in our terribly inefficient and inadequate forward line, which you also covered nicely. And it really is no more complicated than that.
The bringing up on the past is to point out the shortcomings of the now. The shortcomings of the now are to point out where the blame should lie. The blame should lie with the blokes cultivating the list.
I replied to LL earlier after he implied players are the problem and coaching is all that mattered. By that logic Leigh Matthews could coach a bunch of teens to a flag. Absurd, but gets the point across. If the coach doesn't have the talent, it doesn't matter how good the coach is.
The current players (however hamstrung by injuries and 'other' we current;y are) are actually doing ok albeit without winning.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Baggers on March 30, 2025, 10:43:48 am
Geez we’re really rewriting our history about Jones 🤦 besides being a selfish anti vaxxer, he also was not reliable and used to fly for stupid marks and take out other players! But now suddenly not having him is why we’re losing!?
Our problem is previous and current recruiting, and some bad luck with injuries for the past few years.
Thank you.
I started this Jones thing (i think) and it was done to point out that I believed he would be more important to our team structure compared to Kennedy.
It was also done to point out that our recruiting department has been sitting on their hands since. Forget about how important each individual player was. Forget about why we don't have these players. Focus on the hole that was left behind and neglected since.
Having a 2nd tall reliable kpd allows us to drasticallynalter the way we play and the way we setup. Jones, like weitering, can play tall and smaller. They can zone or they can lock down. Brain fades can occur, but ultimately it provides us with a better 22 than we have currently that gives us more.matcb day options than we have currently.
We have had at least 2 losses because the opposition has taken weitering out of the game when it mattered. That doesn't happen when you have a reliable 2IC to help him out.
Fix this and we drastically improve. Haynes isn't the answer. Sos isn't the answer. Young isn't the answer.
Important considerations, K. Development - ordinary. List - a worry.
However, let's look at the reality of the here and now.
Statistically, in our 3 games to date we've been in winning positions, but...
...here are some very telling stats: Our forward line in our 3 outings has kicked, 75pts, 60pts and 69pts. Av: 68pts Our opponents in the same 3 outing have kicked, 83pts, 80pts and 82 pts. Av: 81.6
We are holding oppositions sides to losing scores. Our forward line is poor. Deeply inefficient. Note: We get the ball into our forward line plenty of times to kick a winning score.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Baggers on March 30, 2025, 10:45:46 am
Yes, the irrelevancy of dwelling on past errors you covered nicely.
Our problems, right here right now, are in our terribly inefficient and inadequate forward line, which you also covered nicely. And it really is no more complicated than that.
The bringing up on the past is to point out the shortcomings of the now. The shortcomings of the now are to point out where the blame should lie. The blame should lie with the blokes cultivating the list.
I replied to LL earlier after he implied players are the problem and coaching is all that mattered. By that logic Leigh Matthews could coach a bunch of teens to a flag. Absurd, but gets the point across. If the coach doesn't have the talent, it doesn't matter how good the coach is.
The current players (however hamstrung by injuries and 'other' we current;y are) are actually doing ok albeit without winning.
Agree. But that doesn't help us now. We know the past mistakes/reasons, the burning questions now are around how do we rescue season 2025?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: kruddler on March 30, 2025, 10:53:35 am
Agree. But that doesn't help us now. We know the past mistakes/reasons, the burning questions now are around how do we rescue season 2025?
....but do we? I've been pointing these shortcomings out for years and that keeps getting put in the too hard basket and years later we still make the same mistakes.
Its not an easy fix. You can't fix a lot of the problems we have now.
Best thing to do is to hope our injury issues disappear and it gives us some more versatility with which players we can pick on any given weekend.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: kruddler on March 30, 2025, 11:03:17 am
One thing i'd like to consider changing up is how we structure our forwardline.
I get it, small forwards = pressure. We love pressure. We need pressure. You can never have too much pressure
.....or can you?
Perhaps we sacrifice some pressure that we get from a small forward running around harrassing and substitute it with some good old fashioned scoreboard pressure instead.
Why don't instead of picking an Evans who 'applies pressure' we pick a Moir, he kicks goals. Ultimately, its not who has the highest amount of pressure that wins the game, its who has the most about of total points when the final siren goes.
Pick players that can beat their opponent in one on one contests up forward. Pick players who can mark the ball inside 50. Pick players who can kick goals.
If we have 6 forwards and they beat their opponent more often than not, then we win the game. We know our mids will get it forward. Yes, the supply inside F50 hasn't been great.....but if we had better forwards, that wouldn't matter as much.
Look at Zac Williams in his return to form over the past 18 months as a small forward. He kicked goals and made something out of nothing. Look at all the love for Moir in his 2 quarters he's played. Why? He makes something out of nothing and kicks goals.
Find players who do that.
We focus so much on 'keeping the ball inside our forward half with pressure' Whats the point if we don't score. If we get the ball in there slightly less, but kick more goals, then that is a winning recipe is it not?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Baggers on March 30, 2025, 11:04:24 am
Agree. But that doesn't help us now. We know the past mistakes/reasons, the burning questions now are around how do we rescue season 2025?
....but do we? I've been pointing these shortcomings out for years and that keeps getting put in the too hard basket and years later we still make the same mistakes.
Its not an easy fix. You can't fix a lot of the problems we have now.
Best thing to do is to hope our injury issues disappear and it gives us some more versatility with which players we can pick on any given weekend.
I believe we do. We know our small forwards are an issue hence recruiting a couple from a shallow pool of availabilities.
I don't think we have a lot of problems. Our defensive game is good. Proof? We keep opposition sides to modest scores.
I believe we have one glaring problem as evidenced by poor i50 efficiency.
So what do we do about that?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Baggers on March 30, 2025, 11:15:05 am
One thing i'd like to consider changing up is how we structure our forwardline.
I get it, small forwards = pressure. We love pressure. We need pressure. You can never have too much pressure
.....or can you?
Perhaps we sacrifice some pressure that we get from a small forward running around harrassing and substitute it with some good old fashioned scoreboard pressure instead.
Why don't instead of picking an Evans who 'applies pressure' we pick a Moir, he kicks goals. Ultimately, its not who has the highest amount of pressure that wins the game, its who has the most about of total points when the final siren goes.
Pick players that can beat their opponent in one on one contests up forward. Pick players who can mark the ball inside 50. Pick players who can kick goals.
If we have 6 forwards and they beat their opponent more often than not, then we win the game. We know our mids will get it forward. Yes, the supply inside F50 hasn't been great.....but if we had better forwards, that wouldn't matter as much.
Look at Zac Williams in his return to form over the past 18 months as a small forward. He kicked goals and made something out of nothing. Look at all the love for Moir in his 2 quarters he's played. Why? He makes something out of nothing and kicks goals.
Find players who do that.
We focus so much on 'keeping the ball inside our forward half with pressure' Whats the point if we don't score. If we get the ball in there slightly less, but kick more goals, then that is a winning recipe is it not?
I couldn't agree more. Our MC is a glaring weakness, seemingly obsessed with defensiveness and conservative selections. Charles is our only creative forward. Kempy is learning his craft well.
But Fog and Evans in the same forward line!!! FFS. Just don't know where Motlop is at - his defensive game is pretty good, so is his endeavour... but he aint troubling the scorers. Fantasia is rapidly looking like another glassman.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Lods on March 30, 2025, 11:29:44 am
Defence is fine The highest score kicked against us this year is 83 A fair score but easily achievable by a fit and firing forward line.
Problem is our forward line is hampered by the fact our two best forwards are having a few issues. Apparently Harry played in a practice game yesterday, so did Elijah (can anyone confirm that?) Curnow was much better Get that structure back and right and that can turn quickly.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: PaulP on March 30, 2025, 11:45:45 am
We were 4th in points for last season, 5th in points against (i.e conceded the fifth highest aggregate). Also worth contemplating whether there has been an over correction of sorts, in game plan / style, to fix this issue (leaving aside legitimate concerns about our forwards).
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Lods on March 30, 2025, 12:00:16 pm
We were 4th in points for last season, 5th in points against (i.e conceded the fifth highest aggregate). Also worth contemplating whether there has been an over correction of sorts, in game plan / style, to fix this issue (leaving aside legitimate concerns about our forwards).
It's also efficiency Last year our forward efficiency was in the high 40s This year it's down in the 30s, the last game being the worst.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: PaulP on March 30, 2025, 12:03:38 pm
It's also efficiency Last year our forward efficiency was in the high 40s This year it's down in the 30s, the last game being the worst.
Yes, no doubt it's usually more than one thing.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: crashlander on March 30, 2025, 02:01:08 pm
We're clearly not fit enough yet. Channel 7 were just going through the fact that, when you're tired, your decision making is poorer. That describes us perfectly at the moment.
I don't know why we're as unfit as we appear to be, but it bodes poorly for this season. Hopefully we can get get more match fit soon, as things are not going get any easier for us.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 30, 2025, 03:18:11 pm
How about say something truthful and meaningful for a start? Stop spruiking the nonsensical 'little green shoots' BS like that other unmentionable waste of time we had. Show us a bit of the old MV player mongrel and fight, and not the current 'MV I've got no real answers and I'm fearful of losing my job' Coach. The fans don't want that. Show some anger, show some grit and determination that can transfer to the team.!
Ive never heard Voss mention "green shoots". Him not being truthful is your opinion, you dont know crap about what is his truth or lies. How do you know he doesnt show the MV mongrel when he needs to behind closed doors with the players? Do you want him to walk into the presser and knock out a journo or something? So Ill ask again what do you think he should do in a football sense? Don't gimme BS made up theories that that will achieve zero on a group of 45 young men in 2025.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: kruddler on March 30, 2025, 03:50:06 pm
Defence is fine The highest score kicked against us this year is 83 A fair score but easily achievable by a fit and firing forward line.
Problem is our forward line is hampered by the fact our two best forwards are having a few issues. Apparently Harry played in a practice game yesterday, so did Elijah (can anyone confirm that?) Curnow was much better Get that structure back and right and that can turn quickly.
Defence is fine, because we are sacrificing our forward line to improve it. If we had 6 weiterings in defence, we wouldn't need fogartys defensive pressure so much. Now we are not going to get 6 weiterings.
But...if we improved our defenders, we wouldn't require our forwards to help in defence as much as they do and we could become more attacking....without being scored against more.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Bluesers on March 30, 2025, 04:07:35 pm
How about say something truthful and meaningful for a start? Stop spruiking the nonsensical 'little green shoots' BS like that other unmentionable waste of time we had. Show us a bit of the old MV player mongrel and fight, and not the current 'MV I've got no real answers and I'm fearful of losing my job' Coach. The fans don't want that. Show some anger, show some grit and determination that can transfer to the team.!
Ive never heard Voss mention "green shoots". Him not being truthful is your opinion, you dont know crap about what is his truth or lies. How do you know he doesnt show the MV mongrel when he needs to behind closed doors with the players? Do you want him to walk into the presser and knock out a journo or something? So Ill ask again what do you think he should do in a football sense? Don't gimme BS made up theories that that will achieve zero on a group of 45 young men in 2025.
Wow! why so angry?? If you can't understand my post then please don't quote and reply like a numpty.! Green shoots was clearly a reference to Bolton here, which if you had read and understood what I typed then you would see that! I won't bother commenting on the rest of a response by you when clearly you don't fully understand the points I was raising. Better to say nothing, than to type words in anger imo. Chill out big guy.!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 30, 2025, 04:52:31 pm
Ive never heard Voss mention "green shoots". Him not being truthful is your opinion, you dont know crap about what is his truth or lies. How do you know he doesnt show the MV mongrel when he needs to behind closed doors with the players? Do you want him to walk into the presser and knock out a journo or something? So Ill ask again what do you think he should do in a football sense? Don't gimme BS made up theories that that will achieve zero on a group of 45 young men in 2025.
Wow! why so angry?? If you can't understand my post then please don't quote and reply like a numpty.! Green shoots was clearly a reference to Bolton here, which if you had read and understood what I typed then you would see that! I won't bother commenting on the rest of a response by you when clearly you don't fully understand the points I was raising. Better to say nothing, than to type words in anger imo. Chill out big guy.!
I'm chill as they come my friend, don't want to get into a slanging match but you might want to re-read what you wrote.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Bluesers on March 30, 2025, 05:10:14 pm
Wow! why so angry?? If you can't understand my post then please don't quote and reply like a numpty.! Green shoots was clearly a reference to Bolton here, which if you had read and understood what I typed then you would see that! I won't bother commenting on the rest of a response by you when clearly you don't fully understand the points I was raising. Better to say nothing, than to type words in anger imo. Chill out big guy.!
I'm chill as they come my friend, don't want to get into a slanging match but you might want to re-read what you wrote.
You definitely didn't seem chill by the way you worded your response, anything but. It seemed like you took what I wrote personally and typed an angry response, which is uncalled for because this is a public forum 'my friend'. And possibly unlike you I always read, reread, and then recheck all of my posts here. But unlike you, I never get personal because everyone here is entitled to their opinions and often I won't agree with others and I'm damn sure others will not agree with me too. But that's fine, I just move on. I wasn't saying MV was lying btw, but you're just taking everything way too literally.
If you're just having a bad day then I'm sorry for that. Let's not take things too personally please and move on....
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Lods on March 30, 2025, 06:48:07 pm
Defence is fine The highest score kicked against us this year is 83 A fair score but easily achievable by a fit and firing forward line.
Problem is our forward line is hampered by the fact our two best forwards are having a few issues. Apparently Harry played in a practice game yesterday, so did Elijah (can anyone confirm that?) Curnow was much better Get that structure back and right and that can turn quickly.
Defence is fine, because we are sacrificing our forward line to improve it. If we had 6 weiterings in defence, we wouldn't need fogartys defensive pressure so much. Now we are not going to get 6 weiterings.
But...if we improved our defenders, we wouldn't require our forwards to help in defence as much as they do and we could become more attacking....without being scored against more.
Are you talking about our forwards dropping back to help out the defence during a game or the more semi-permanent moves like Silvagni to the backline?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: kruddler on March 30, 2025, 07:01:25 pm
Defence is fine, because we are sacrificing our forward line to improve it. If we had 6 weiterings in defence, we wouldn't need fogartys defensive pressure so much. Now we are not going to get 6 weiterings.
But...if we improved our defenders, we wouldn't require our forwards to help in defence as much as they do and we could become more attacking....without being scored against more.
Are you talking about our forwards dropping back to help out the defence during a game or the more semi-permanent moves like Silvagni to the backline?
Silvagni to the backline is a separate issue, that also could've been avoided.
However, in this instance it was more about forwards dropping back....or being forced to focus on defence first and attacking second.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: pertz on March 30, 2025, 07:35:43 pm
One thing i'd like to consider changing up is how we structure our forwardline.
I get it, small forwards = pressure. We love pressure. We need pressure. You can never have too much pressure
.....or can you?
Perhaps we sacrifice some pressure that we get from a small forward running around harrassing and substitute it with some good old fashioned scoreboard pressure instead.
Why don't instead of picking an Evans who 'applies pressure' we pick a Moir, he kicks goals. Ultimately, its not who has the highest amount of pressure that wins the game, its who has the most about of total points when the final siren goes.
Pick players that can beat their opponent in one on one contests up forward. Pick players who can mark the ball inside 50. Pick players who can kick goals.
If we have 6 forwards and they beat their opponent more often than not, then we win the game. We know our mids will get it forward. Yes, the supply inside F50 hasn't been great.....but if we had better forwards, that wouldn't matter as much.
Look at Zac Williams in his return to form over the past 18 months as a small forward. He kicked goals and made something out of nothing. Look at all the love for Moir in his 2 quarters he's played. Why? He makes something out of nothing and kicks goals.
Find players who do that.
We focus so much on 'keeping the ball inside our forward half with pressure' Whats the point if we don't score. If we get the ball in there slightly less, but kick more goals, then that is a winning recipe is it not?
Well said Kruddler, completely agree. I would be playing Moir because he is athletic and can beat his man and set up or kick goals. He is the type of player that can unsettle defences. Time to shake things up a bit in the forward line with our small/medium players. We are way too predictable atm.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Sexybronco on March 30, 2025, 07:53:08 pm
One thing i'd like to consider changing up is how we structure our forwardline.
I get it, small forwards = pressure. We love pressure. We need pressure. You can never have too much pressure
.....or can you?
Perhaps we sacrifice some pressure that we get from a small forward running around harrassing and substitute it with some good old fashioned scoreboard pressure instead.
Why don't instead of picking an Evans who 'applies pressure' we pick a Moir, he kicks goals. Ultimately, its not who has the highest amount of pressure that wins the game, its who has the most about of total points when the final siren goes.
Pick players that can beat their opponent in one on one contests up forward. Pick players who can mark the ball inside 50. Pick players who can kick goals.
If we have 6 forwards and they beat their opponent more often than not, then we win the game. We know our mids will get it forward. Yes, the supply inside F50 hasn't been great.....but if we had better forwards, that wouldn't matter as much.
Look at Zac Williams in his return to form over the past 18 months as a small forward. He kicked goals and made something out of nothing. Look at all the love for Moir in his 2 quarters he's played. Why? He makes something out of nothing and kicks goals.
Find players who do that.
We focus so much on 'keeping the ball inside our forward half with pressure' Whats the point if we don't score. If we get the ball in there slightly less, but kick more goals, then that is a winning recipe is it not?
Well said Kruddler, completely agree. I would be playing Moir because he is athletic and can beat his man and set up or kick goals. He is the type of player that can unsettle defences. Time to shake things up a bit in the forward line with our small/medium players. We are way too predictable atm.
Moir doesn’t have the fitness to run out a game I reckon. Cameos are one thing, but competing for 120 minutes is his challenge. He has the tricks we desperately need but needs to earn his spot. The sooner the better!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: kruddler on March 30, 2025, 07:55:51 pm
One thing i'd like to consider changing up is how we structure our forwardline.
I get it, small forwards = pressure. We love pressure. We need pressure. You can never have too much pressure
.....or can you?
Perhaps we sacrifice some pressure that we get from a small forward running around harrassing and substitute it with some good old fashioned scoreboard pressure instead.
Why don't instead of picking an Evans who 'applies pressure' we pick a Moir, he kicks goals. Ultimately, its not who has the highest amount of pressure that wins the game, its who has the most about of total points when the final siren goes.
Pick players that can beat their opponent in one on one contests up forward. Pick players who can mark the ball inside 50. Pick players who can kick goals.
If we have 6 forwards and they beat their opponent more often than not, then we win the game. We know our mids will get it forward. Yes, the supply inside F50 hasn't been great.....but if we had better forwards, that wouldn't matter as much.
Look at Zac Williams in his return to form over the past 18 months as a small forward. He kicked goals and made something out of nothing. Look at all the love for Moir in his 2 quarters he's played. Why? He makes something out of nothing and kicks goals.
Find players who do that.
We focus so much on 'keeping the ball inside our forward half with pressure' Whats the point if we don't score. If we get the ball in there slightly less, but kick more goals, then that is a winning recipe is it not?
Well said Kruddler, completely agree. I would be playing Moir because he is athletic and can beat his man and set up or kick goals. He is the type of player that can unsettle defences. Time to shake things up a bit in the forward line with our small/medium players. We are way too predictable atm.
You used a good phrase there that is the key to this philosophy. "Unsettle defences" How many of our forwards to defenders look at and get worried about? Charlie......maybe Harry....thats about it. So they double and triple team them and since we don't have anyone else worth kicking to, we play right into their hands. Their other defenders sag off their 'easy' opponents and help out with the 'hard' ones.
How about we make their defenders defend their direct opponent? Punish them if they sag off. Play through them. Get them unsettled instead of playing to their strengths!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Lods on March 30, 2025, 07:56:56 pm
Moir showed some signs at the end of last year. But Moir's VFL game last week was not worth a promotion. He may have that X factor but playing him at this stage would gain us nothing if he put in a similar performance. It may even be a liability as defenders worked off him.
We do need to be rewarding form in the VFL But if we drop someone pick the next 'best' in. After Boyd, that was probably White.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: kruddler on March 30, 2025, 07:59:40 pm
Moir showed some signs at the end of last year. But Moir's VFL game last week was not worth a promotion. He may have that X factor but playing him at this stage would gain us nothing if he put in a similar performance. It may even be a liability as defenders worked off him.
We do need to be rewarding form in the VFL But if we drop someone pick the next 'best' in. After Boyd, that was probably White.
We don't need to reward his form in the VFL......but isn't that what we did with Evans?
Moir is not AFL fit, and his opponent may run off him. But if he kicks 3 goals in a game of footy, and his opponent gets 20 touches. I'm taking that as a win. Up forward, we don't get many wins from 'smaller' blokes at the moment.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: pertz on March 30, 2025, 08:09:29 pm
Moir showed some signs at the end of last year. But Moir's VFL game last week was not worth a promotion. He may have that X factor but playing him at this stage would gain us nothing if he put in a similar performance. It may even be a liability as defenders worked off him.
We do need to be rewarding form in the VFL But if we drop someone pick the next 'best' in. After Boyd, that was probably White.
Maybe you're right Lods. But we desperately need some X factor in the forward line ATM. Motlop and Evans aren't the answer. And Fantasia when ready is not either. All the good teams have one or two dynamic small forwards. So if Moir puts in a half decent VFL game, he needs to be put in IMO.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Lods on March 30, 2025, 08:11:35 pm
I'm probably a bit biased. I watched him last week hoping he could make a statement and a real claim for a senior spot
I couldn't have been more disappointed.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Professer E on March 30, 2025, 08:38:05 pm
Any update on today's VFL practice match?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: kruddler on March 30, 2025, 10:02:50 pm
I'm probably a bit biased. I watched him last week hoping he could make a statement and a real claim for a senior spot
I couldn't have been more disappointed.
A few people have suggested as much already, but he might simple be kne of those 'big stage' type players.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: LP on March 30, 2025, 10:26:37 pm
Unfit players taken to AFL level cost teams far more than any score they can generate, whether unfit, injured or uncommitted, it's all the same result.
One weak link unravels the whole side, the tactical systems of the AFL a designed for that very purpose.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 30, 2025, 10:32:47 pm
I'm probably a bit biased. I watched him last week hoping he could make a statement and a real claim for a senior spot
I couldn't have been more disappointed.
Do you think he has an application / dedication problem, is the talent not up to the expectation or does he just need time to develop? I have seen little of him during his time at Carlton.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Lods on March 30, 2025, 11:12:54 pm
I'm probably a bit biased. I watched him last week hoping he could make a statement and a real claim for a senior spot
I couldn't have been more disappointed.
Do you think he has an application / dedication problem, is the talent not up to the expectation or does he just need time to develop? I have seen little of him during his time at Carlton.
I think he's probably a work in progress. There were little glimpses at the end of last year where he showed he has a few tricks that many of our side don't possess.
Look, we could give him a game next week and he may show something special, and kick multiple goals. It's probably true of players like Moir that the level at which they (AFL or VFL) play may not make a huge difference to what they produce. It's a 'risk' move. Some might argue we're at the 'risk' stage. If they do play him, sub would probably be the best option. I personally think there are others who should probably get a run ahead of him. But lets see what they do at selection.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Gointocarlton on March 31, 2025, 07:17:29 am
I think he's probably a work in progress. There were little glimpses at the end of last year where he showed he has a few tricks that many of our side don't possess.
Look, we could give him a game next week and he may show something special, and kick multiple goals. It's probably true of players like Moir that the level at which they (AFL or VFL) play may not make a huge difference to what they produce. It's a 'risk' move. Some might argue we're at the 'risk' stage. If they do play him, sub would probably be the best option. I personally think there are others who should probably get a run ahead of him. But lets see what they do at selection.
Thanks Lods, I have been having "arguments" with a mate who reckons we should be playing Moir, he has never watched reserves game in his life and all I have read about him is that he is underwhelming at reserves level. Who do you think is ahead of him that should come in?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Thryleon on March 31, 2025, 08:44:47 am
Will White is next cab off the rank.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Lods on March 31, 2025, 08:45:28 am
Who do you think is ahead of him that should come in?
It's a difficult one. It may come down to positional requirements in which case Moir may get a run. It will depend on who goes out (Evans, Docherty??) It will also depend on availability (Harry, Fantasia)
As folks have alluded to... the cupboard is pretty bare. Everyone has an opinion as to who goes out, but it's a case of who do you replace them with, and maybe it's better to stick with what we have and see whether they can find some form A number of players seem to be improving each week with game time. Others, not so much
But based just on the VFL game... Boyd was a no brainer. Evans also got a game.
Apart from Moir-Binns, Wilson and White is probably where any promotion would come from. Of the trio I'd probably say White is the one who impressed the most.
If not White then maybe Lucas C comes back in but with both the Camporeale boys, some time together in the VFL may be useful. Ben Camporeale came on in the third quarter and had three possessions. In the last he had 10 for a total of 13, but his disposal wasn't great.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Milhanna13 on March 31, 2025, 09:22:28 am
We get absolutely nothing from our small forwards, because the ball comes in so slowly that the F50 is jammed by the time it gets there, and they are not talented or fast enough to be much more than witches hats. To compound things, there is very little forward pressure, so the opposition can get it back out to the wings with ease.
At every centre bounce, I look at the half-forward line of Motlop, Cottrell, Evans, Fogarty and the like - a set of midgets against serious running half-backs who chop us up game after game.
We have little or no run out of the backline, and our only strategy is to dump-kick it to the wing and hope for a contest (and based on the midget half-forward line, that gives us little or no hope). Or dump kick it into F50 for an uncontested opposition mark.
I have been saying since mid last year that we need to start playing the kids to try and get some enthusiasm going. We keep putting the same try-hards out there every week, and we get surprised when they come up short yet again? That is Einstein's definition of insanity.
There is no way forward with the team they keep putting out there ATM. Play the kids now.
Except in the first Q and a bit, where there was some system, coming out of HB, and entering the F50. Why did this go away?? It cant all of been Zac getting hurt??
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Milhanna13 on March 31, 2025, 09:33:13 am
The only adequate replacement for Williams is lij hollands.
The rest are hail Mary's with only will white an unknown quantity. Moir is a second year player with currently a light body and minimal tank.
Until our season is completely dead we need to reward effort and form as much as possible and now it's on those on the cusp to come to the party, press for selection and perform once in.
Look no further than Lewis Young for the example. He's thus far been mich better than anyone thought this season, because he's giving it a red hot go. Where are the others? It's why I'm not bagging out Evans. He's on his 3rd club, he's occupying spot 46 on the list because players further up it have been ruled out for the year. If he's playing we have no other options that are doing their bit. He's an easy target to bag for the right reasons, but doesn't deserve the ire. Go higher up the list. Mcgovern was one that really was found wanting yesterday late. Dropped a couple of efforts that he's usually safe with and we couldn't get the ball in hand.
We are desperately missing Newman.
Mcgovern has been dropping easy marks for all 3 rounds - very unusual for him. normally a safe pair of hands.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Baggers on March 31, 2025, 09:46:25 am
Moir showed some signs at the end of last year. But Moir's VFL game last week was not worth a promotion. He may have that X factor but playing him at this stage would gain us nothing if he put in a similar performance. It may even be a liability as defenders worked off him.
We do need to be rewarding form in the VFL But if we drop someone pick the next 'best' in. After Boyd, that was probably White.
We don't need to reward his form in the VFL......but isn't that what we did with Evans?
Moir is not AFL fit, and his opponent may run off him. But if he kicks 3 goals in a game of footy, and his opponent gets 20 touches. I'm taking that as a win. Up forward, we don't get many wins from 'smaller' blokes at the moment.
This is such an important point. Really important. Spot on, K.
There are some genuinely talented blokes who just do not deliver at VFL level, these are the blokes who seem to need all that comes with senior level pressure, to deliver. Moir maybe a cameo kind of kid at this stage, X factor, but the reality is he's dangerous around goals and has a high footy IQ.
Yes, Evans' VFL stats were elite - for negating... not creating. And he delivered on that at senior level. Plus, we've already got a reliable defensive small forward with Fog. So what do you get from having 2 of your small forwards in negating roles? FA scoreboard impact.
I must be a freak of some kind as I kinda expect small forwards to be creative and, you know... hit the scoreboard!!! Moir will do that, Motlop has that capability too... as does Will White.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: pinot on March 31, 2025, 10:25:43 am
Evans laid just one tackle - if all we want is one tackle then I am sure Moir can give that + some much needed forward craft
If it's defending rebounding 50 then forget about it - but with Evans he is just giving us one tackle. I think Moir's form doesnt justify AFL game time but seriously Evans is horrible.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Lods on March 31, 2025, 10:39:26 am
Evans laid just one tackle - if all we want is one tackle then I am sure Moir can give that + some much needed forward craft
If it's defending rebounding 50 then forget about it - but with Evans he is just giving us one tackle. I think Moir's form doesnt justify AFL game time but seriously Evans is horrible.
Moir had no tackles in the VFL game...so maybe he can't. (Evans had 5 tackles in the same game)
Title: Re: AFL Rd 3 2025 Post Game Prognostications Carlton vs Western Bulldogs
Post by: Lods on March 31, 2025, 10:52:05 am
Just noticed the last couple of pages we've been talking a bit about outs and ins for next week in a post match thread...and the pre-match is getting negelected.
Can we move the selection discussions for next week into the pre-match thread. If you want to comment on a previous post in this thread just do a copy and paste of the quote into the pre-match.