Carlton Supporters Club

In reply to Kruddler  from the other thread :

Who comes in is a seperate List Management discussion.

However, if Motlop was a competent player at this level, then we would still be able to see his skills and contributions anyway.

We didn't once again !!

Find me some players to bring in next week to replace all the 'hacks' we have in the side.
Find me someone to replace Acres who had 30 touches, 5 tackles and 3 clearances
Find me someone to replace Motlop who had 11 touches, 3 tackles and 1 shot on goal (more touches than Fogarty, Moir, White)
Find me someone........anyone.....to replace anyone we have in the side.
Bueller......bueller???

No   Name   Games   Age   Date of Birth   Height   Weight   Origin   Position
25   Binns, Jaxon   3   20yr 5mth   29 Oct 2004   183cm   72kg   Dandenong Stingrays   Midfield
21   Camporeale, Lucas   2   18yr 8mth   21 Jul 2006   184cm   64kg   Glenelg   Midfield
16   Camporeale, Ben   0   18yr 8mth   21 Jul 2006   186cm   76kg   Glenelg   Midfield
32   Carroll, Matt R   0   19yr 4mth   28 Nov 2005   188cm   81kg   Sandringham Dragons   Defender
28   Charleson, Harry R   0   18yr 9mth   26 Jun 2006   183cm   76kg   Greater Western Victoria Rebels   Defender
Midfield
41   Duffy, Matt R   0   21yr 3mth   2 Jan 2004   194cm   90kg   Longford GAA   Defender
31   Lemmey, Harry   0   21yr 2mth   30 Jan 2004   201cm   95kg   West Adelaide   Forward
34   Monahan, Rob R   0   20yr 9mth   29 Jun 2004   194cm   86kg   Kerry   Forward
22   O'Farrell, Harry   0   18yr 11mth   3 May 2006   196cm   87kg   Calder Cannons   Defender
40   O'Keeffe, Hudson R   0   20yr 3mth   16 Dec 2004   202cm   94kg   Oakleigh Chargers   Ruck
35   Wilson, Billy   0   19yr 9mth   16 Jun 2005   183cm   72kg   Dandenong Stringrays   Defender
Midfield

Why was Boyd dropped? He who has a bit of mongrel? Was he sick?

Who comes in is a separate list management discussion? No. Its 100% relative to this discussion. If you want to drop someone. You need to replace them with someone better.
There isn't.

From the in-game....

re: Motlop.......probably a second or third small forward you run behind someone else who is A grade who can make the big plays.
He will kick the joe the goose type expected goals but wont be doing any Eddie Betts miracle stuff very often if at all.

Meh - we are a badly coached and drilled team. Defence and midfield is fully stacked with a Coleman medalist in the forward line. Stating cupboard is bare is a cop out to the gross under performance and loss of faith in Voss's ways.

GTC. I was thinking the same. Some weird sh1t happening in those 10 minutes. They need some kind of circuit breaker.

I saw plenty of effort. ....................................

Cripps is a shadow of himself.....................

Quote from: pinot – on April 03, 2025, 10:34:05 pm

Meh - we are a badly coached and drilled team. Defence and midfield is fully stacked with a Coleman medalist in the forward line. Stating cupboard is bare is a cop out to the gross under performance and loss of faith in Voss's ways.

There was no-one apart from White and Boyd who deserved to be promoted from the VFL Round 1 match.
Boyd got his chance last week, White and Moir got their's this week.
The replacement cupboard is bare.

Quote from: Lods – on April 03, 2025, 11:54:15 pm

There was no-one apart from White and Boyd who deserved to be promoted from the VFL Round 1 match.
Boyd got his chance last week, White and Moir got their's this week.
The replacement cupboard is bare.

Had four months to drill a squad that has high end talent and failed.

Actually my bad - three years going to four

Quote from: pinot – on April 04, 2025, 08:44:04 am

Had four months to drill a squad that has high end talent and failed.

Actually my bad - three years going to four

We have 'high end' talent....although a few of them have been gone missing in recent weeks.
It's our 'low end' talent that is not firing, and nothing in the wings.

Both forward and back we are missing key personnel....or players that normally carry a big load are well below their best
When those structures fall apart it puts an extra burden on the players that remain and they have to pick up the slack. There is a;so a reshuffle that takes place, and in some cases that means robbing one area to bolster another.

I was saying it last night  to my daughter, I told her the story of Hodge. When I was a kid, I played in the backline, if I was Weiters last night, I would have gone to the mids and said "Fellas, I dont want to see the ball back at my end after the centre bounce, is that clear?"
Our on field leadership is very poor when things aren't going great.
This may seem trivial but I noticed Hewett help Nick Daicos get up off the ground after contest. Not two minutes later, Hewett was not he ground with Daicos standing over him, do you reckon a helping hand was extended to Hewett. No Chance, watch the first bounce I think it was at the start of the 4th, Daicos lines up next to Walsh in the guts and he was into him bumping him straight away, here endeth the lesson, to win games of football you need to be a ruthless prick for 120mins for 25 odd weeks.

Staggered why Boyd didn't get a game, ditto Carroll, Binns is a good runner too.   I don't ascribe to the cupboard being totally bare theory - but the players that are there need a rapid turn around in attitude and form, and I'm not confident going by what I've seen over the past month, and last ten games of 2024.

Injuries and the big elephant in the room which no one wants to talk about.

Quote from: kruddler – on April 03, 2025, 10:22:39 pm

Who comes in is a separate list management discussion? No. Its 100% relative to this discussion. If you want to drop someone. You need to replace them with someone better.
There isn't.

From the in-game....

Feel free to go off on a complete tangent as usual !!

My comment was that Motlop has to be "traded or delisted" which just in case you may have overlooked, happens at the end of the season, not next week.

IMO, he is not up to the standard required and our List Management people need to find an replacement, again, this is to take place at the end of the season.

If Motlop plays the remainder of the season because there is no-one else available or better then so be it, doesn't mean he should continue at the club next year and beyond though.

As a trade target I will admit he holds little value.   A 4th round pick?   Maybe a 3rd but I doubt it.    He wouldn't be on big coin.   He is an easy hold.   

I saw plenty of effort.

When you can't get your hands on the ball, and the opposition is able to run over you in waves because they're fitter and faster, then when you do get it, you make mistakes, this is what happens.

Cripps is a shadow of himself.   The players currently don't want the ball.  When they get it, they've got no where to go with it, because there's no easy ball, there's no release option.  There's minimal movement, because we lack run.  Its all a feedback loop.  You can't do one, which means you can't do another thing, and you can't do the next thing, so you have to resort to long kicks to contests.  Cripps goal last night, he had a teamate clear closer to goal.  Ignored the option. Kicked it himself.   We've got blokes playing selfish football everywhere and guys that don't want contact.

Motlop has a go and looks pretty industrious to me. Has played 44 games and is getting better IMO.

I would suggest that our issues are meta and go well beyond personnel. We have turned over more than any other club in the last 20 odd years, and no group of individuals has made much of a dent, although some have been more successful than others. The club as an abstract entity seems to be in a kind of paralysis or fug, and IMO no amount of personnel change will help. The land is barren, and no amount of hole digging, changing the shape of the hole, using different implements to dig etc., will change that. There's something fundamental about "being Carlton" that needs to change.

Vossy seems to me to be a very loyal person, but I would ask if his loyalty is being let down by some in his footy department, maybe some other coaches and even some players. He also strikes me as someone who, perhaps I hope, will get to a stage where he'll get angry and fed up and hopefully at the right people. Might be time for Vossy to be a pr1ck with those who deserve it and time to let go of loyalties to those who can't deliver.

Watching the game, and in particular after 1/4 time, it was pretty clear where our issues were - apart from mental toughness and a game plan needing tweaks. These blokes, for whatever reason, just aren't having the impact they're supposedly capable of.

I just don't see what Haynes brings.
Are we expecting too much from Motlop?
Young, with ball in hand just seems confused. Zero footy IQ.
What the hell has happened to Gov... just can't be trusted.
Williams comes and goes in games. Why?
Was Crippa carrying an injury? Does he take on too much responsibility? Are there some around him on the ball who fail to rise up when he can't or isn't dominating?
Is Cerra the most vanilla mid in the game? He does alright, he's a good (not very good or excellent) player but can he do more, because he has to.
What the hell is going on with Acres?
I'll be blunt, a shooting bambi moment, but Doc is a liability. He actually seems worried and hesitant. Game has passed him by?

I understand that not everybody can be mentally tough and/or someone you'd want in the trenches with you, but the blokes who seem to me to bring those qualities are at present: JSOS, Ollie, Crippa, TDK, Walshy, Hewett, Lord and Boyd. Although each may have some issues, you know they're focussed and will bring their best to each contest and the entire game. Unavailable blokes who bring these qualities and are missed would be: Cottrell, Cincotta, Pitto, Newman and Cowan (though still raw and needing work).

Looking forward to the Magoos game on Saturday. I'd love for the MC to make a statement. If some in the Magoos put their hands up, I'd like to see these blokes given a rest: McGovern, Doc, Acres, Haynes and Young. It's over the hungry ones in the Magoos to demand selection... and the MC to have the cods to do what is necessary.

Where is Cincotta?

Where is Cincotta?

Where is Cincotta?

Pretty much covered by everyone so nothing really to add. I do think that those critical of Ollie need to re-watch the game. Thought he was one of the few that gave it all for 4 quarters, AND he kicked 2 goals. A 3rd of our goals. George also kicked another 3rd (as I have suggested previously I believe Kennedy's departure is the catalyst for this) and was once again one of our best.
Positives
Thought Walsh was a lot better and easily his best for the year.
Saad had a good one too. One of the few who knew how to play the wet weather.
I'm hoping the "brains trust" thought Lord did enough to retain his spot.
Busted their nuts : TDK, Cripps, Jack, Weiters
Honest: Cerra, White, Williams
Negatives
Everything everyone else has said.
Doc and Acres getting plenty of the ball but having zero impact and taking the wrong options.
I'm 65 this year and I have serious doubts I'll ever see another flag.

Nice post rocky. Agree with all those assessments and Hewett is the most underrated player on our list IMO.

I would suggest that our issues are meta and go well beyond personnel. We have turned over more than any other club in the last 20 odd years, and no group of individuals has made much of a dent, although some have been more successful than others. The club as an abstract entity seems to be in a kind of paralysis or fug, and IMO no amount of personnel change will help. The land is barren, and no amount of hole digging, changing the shape of the hole, using different implements to dig etc., will change that. There's something fundamental about "being Carlton" that needs to change.

Hoping Mr Cook is all over it. We have to back him in. interesting to hear him on 3AW last night. Absolutely no panic, we will bounce back. Wright is working with Cook 3 days a week. Surely
between the two of them they can spot the obvious.

Have faith. I turn 65 tomorrow and was hoping for a great present last night.
Guess I'll just have to watch the 95 Grand Final again......

when the opposition starts to RUN and SPREAD our slow players cannot match or rise to this level , so thks to sos and now Austin we are in the same position as all the other years and it vey disappointing and sad . I don't care about Coleman medalist or any other medal , i care about a successful game plan / system  and we haven't got one for the last 2 yrs.

Hoping Mr Cook is all over it. We have to back him in. interesting to hear him on 3AW last night. Absolutely no panic, we will bounce back. Wright is working with Cook 3 days a week. Surely
between the two of them they can spot the obvious.

Have faith. I turn 65 tomorrow and was hoping for a great present last night.
Guess I'll just have to watch the 95 Grand Final again......

Quote from: PaulP – on April 04, 2025, 11:29:23 am

I would suggest that our issues are meta and go well beyond personnel. We have turned over more than any other club in the last 20 odd years, and no group of individuals has made much of a dent, although some have been more successful than others. The club as an abstract entity seems to be in a kind of paralysis or fug, and IMO no amount of personnel change will help. The land is barren, and no amount of hole digging, changing the shape of the hole, using different implements to dig etc., will change that. There's something fundamental about "being Carlton" that needs to change.

I think this is a great post and sadly very close to the mark Paul

Over the years the "we are Carlton and f$&# the rest" hasn't really worked and at times I think many still see Carlton as the 80's and 90's powerhouse.   

The reality is that in the current day we aren't elite at anything on or off the field.   The days of the top end of Collins Street throwing cash at the best players in Kernahan, Bradley and Naley are gone.

We still wait for our white knight to come in a fix everything.

- Pratt's Millions
- Denis Pagan
- Mick Malthouse
- Greg Swann
- Chris Judd
- Mathieson and Pokies Money
- Number 1 draft pick in Murphy, Gibbs and Kruezer.
- Brian Cook
- Andrew Russell
- Patrick Cripps
- Next in line Graham Wright

These guys are successful before they came to Carlton and in cases like Swann are successful after they leave but often, they get frog marched out of Carlton as being the cause for our lack of on field success.  

We stand back and wait for these guys to save us.

So what is wrong at Carlton?    I still remember getting Luke Williams across from Geelong as a key recruiter only for him to resign not much later staggered at our recruitment set up and systems.   Lasted from May to November.

"Williams was lured to Carlton from Geelong in what was lauded as a major coup in May given he'd been the right-hand man to guru recruiter Stephen Wells."

Do former Carlton powerbrokers and past players have too much influence at the club?   Are guys like Cook and even Voss given the power to make changes?

Why do guys like Clarkson and Ross Lyon turn their nose at us?

How many days are we away from a Bruce Mathieson savaging via the Herald Sun?

I agree Paul.   Something is rotten in the state of Denmark

I'm not suggesting any one group is right or wrong, but there are many supporters who feel that they have been very patient, and any unloading on the club is justified. I don't agree, and I think it creates more problems than it solves, but those folks certainly feel pretty strongly about it.

Also, Dan Houston has copped a two match ban for the Fogarty bump.

I'm not suggesting any one group is right or wrong, but there are many supporters who feel that they have been very patient, and any unloading on the club is justified. I don't agree, and I think it creates more problems than it solves, but those folks certainly feel pretty strongly about it.

2 matches doesn’t seem enough - hasn’t he got prior form with this?

Okay but seriously we have had a number of award winning players for quite a few years now and surely a list can be built around them by now to have a competitive winning team fielded each week?

Its something i said a while ago. One of the biggest problems at Carlton is its supporter base and its emotional, impatient demands.
The pressure we put on the club forces it to act and act without thinking everything through sometimes.....more often than not.

Quote from: Micky0 – on April 04, 2025, 04:45:24 pm

Okay but seriously we have had a number of award winning players for quite a few years now and surely a list can be built around them by now to have a competitive winning team fielded each week?

That's one valid perspective I guess. I would argue that we are competitive, but inconsistent.

There's a lot of moving parts in a football club, and a lot of things need to go right to win a flag, both inside and outside the club. It's not just a mechanical process IMO.

Quote from: Shakin77 – on April 04, 2025, 01:12:34 pm

I think this is a great post and sadly very close to the mark Paul

Over the years the "we are Carlton and f$&# the rest" hasn't really worked and at times I think many still see Carlton as the 80's and 90's powerhouse.   

The reality is that in the current day we aren't elite at anything on or off the field.   The days of the top end of Collins Street throwing cash at the best players in Kernahan, Bradley and Naley are gone.

We still wait for our white knight to come in a fix everything.

- Pratt's Millions
- Denis Pagan
- Mick Malthouse
- Greg Swann
- Chris Judd
- Mathieson and Pokies Money
- Number 1 draft pick in Murphy, Gibbs and Kruezer.
- Brian Cook
- Andrew Russell
- Patrick Cripps
- Next in line Graham Wright

These guys are successful before they came to Carlton and in cases like Swann are successful after they leave but often, they get frog marched out of Carlton as being the cause for our lack of on field success.  

We stand back and wait for these guys to save us.

So what is wrong at Carlton?    I still remember getting Luke Williams across from Geelong as a key recruiter only for him to resign not much later staggered at our recruitment set up and systems.   Lasted from May to November.

"Williams was lured to Carlton from Geelong in what was lauded as a major coup in May given he'd been the right-hand man to guru recruiter Stephen Wells."

Do former Carlton powerbrokers and past players have too much influence at the club?   Are guys like Cook and even Voss given the power to make changes?

Why do guys like Clarkson and Ross Lyon turn their nose at us?

How many days are we away from a Bruce Mathieson savaging via the Herald Sun?

I agree Paul.   Something is rotten in the state of Denmark

Its something i said a while ago. One of the biggest problems at Carlton is its supporter base and its emotional, impatient demands. Wow, K, that is one sweeping generalisation mate. To label one of biggest problems at our club being our supporter base, and this supporter base being 'emotional' with impatient demands is kind of bewildering. I call it passionate, rather than emotional and this passion is something I love about our club. Yes, there is the extreme fringe who take it too far with silly knee jerk reactions and comments but don't we just ignore this minority? And who cares about their demands... certainly not our current administration, which Brian Cook made very clear.
The pressure we put on the club forces it to act and act without thinking everything through sometimes.....more often than not. In the past we might have had weak administrations that bowed to such pressure, but not any more. Thank the gods.

The interview with Cook said as much, without saying it.
I'm paraphrasing here but it was something like....
There are unique challenges at Carlton and they have a very passionate supporter base, that is largely a positive.

Implying, its sometimes negative and causes issues that you wouldn't get elsewhere. I think you're putting words in Cooky's mouth with that assumption of what you think he is implying. I got that he loves our passion and that it is indeed unique and a terrific thing that comes with the CFC. Some of the extremes might be somewhat irritating, but of little consequence.

I've been on rants about Mathieson and co before and the sooner we distance ourselves from those types, the better we will be.
We've improved that area, at least we appear to have improved, but i don't think we are out of the woods yet. Yep, agree. There has been improvement, though I think the improvement is significant but is perhaps being tested by our current situation.

We need a strong president who is well respected and doesn't take crap....but also doesn't speak crap and cause issues. Someone like that we can build behind and get everyone else on board. Priestly doesn't scream that to me so we may be waiting a while.

I think it has become a vicious cycle. Instability causes on field inconsistency, the supporters demand success and when it doesn't come, the club reacts, causing more instability, which leads to the cycle staring again. It's no surprise that clubs who struggle to be successful are also the most unstable. Saints, North, Essendon, Carlton.

I dont think after 30 years of bumbling, fumbling and failure both on and off the ground anyone is impatient, reality is in the real business world or a high profile sporting competition if you are unsuccessful for a even a short period of time then you are in trouble and having to explain yourself to shareholders, members and being held accountable.
We are not a professional club anymore and accountability just isnt part of our mantra, we accept failure with a shrug of the shoulders and just aimlessly look to blunder on week after week repeating the same mistakes with officials trotting out the same benal excuses.
We have become a weak, content, apathetic club used to failure and hanging onto any excuse trying to make our ourselves feel better and have lost touch with reality much like perennial losers like Stkilda who years ago we taunted because of their consistent failures or Richmond who couldnt make it further than ninth place.
Clubs dont even hate us anymore, its more pity, we have a better balance sheet(but still built with pokies) but thats about all we have to show for 30 years between premierships.

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on April 04, 2025, 06:13:09 pm

I dont think after 30 years of bumbling, fumbling and failure both on and off the ground anyone is impatient, reality is in the real business world or a high profile sporting competition if you are unsuccessful for a even a short period of time then you are in trouble and having to explain yourself to shareholders, members and being held accountable.
We are not a professional club anymore and accountability just isnt part of our mantra, we accept failure with a shrug of the shoulders and just aimlessly look to blunder on week after week repeating the same mistakes with officials trotting out the same benal excuses.
We have become a weak, content, apathetic club used to failure and hanging onto any excuse trying to make our ourselves feel better and have lost touch with reality much like perennial losers like Stkilda who years ago we taunted because of their consistent failures or Richmond who couldnt make it further than ninth place.
Clubs dont even hate us anymore, its more pity, we have a better balance sheet(but still built with pokies) but thats about all we have to show for 30 years between premierships.

this perspective sows the seeds for more of the same though.

Stronger together needs to be more than a catch phrase.  Ive said it before and ill say it again.  We are the only club who thinks that erratic consistent change will simply sow seeds of division and instability.

Apparently according to some fans the way out of our malaise is sack the coach and rebuild.  If its not one or the other both...

Meat while the team we faced yesterday has the bones of players in it that were all running round under mick malthouse!!!

Quote from: kruddler – on April 04, 2025, 04:10:53 pm

Its something i said a while ago. One of the biggest problems at Carlton is its supporter base and its emotional, impatient demands.
The pressure we put on the club forces it to act and act without thinking everything through sometimes.....more often than not.

Impatient ??

Hells bells, excuse me for thinking that our 30-year premiership drought needs to be considered acceptable & tolerated.

Puting aside the newer clubs (Freo, GWS & GC), the only club with a longer space between flags than us is St.Kilda !!

We all feel the pain of failure

The good news is that we have enough players with currency that would allow us to trade our way into a completely different side - I know this is extreme, but what sort of side could we put together if we traded every player on our list with currency and recruited young/developing players in their place?

I know that wouldn’t be easy but would we improve? Would our list be more balanced?

Something to think about.

We all feel the pain of failure

The good news is that we have enough players with currency that would allow us to trade our way into a completely different side - I know this is extreme, but what sort of side could we put together if we traded every player on our list with currency and recruited young/developing players in their place?

I know that wouldn’t be easy but would we improve? Would our list be more balanced?

Something to think about.

We all feel the pain of failure

The good news is that we have enough players with currency that would allow us to trade our way into a completely different side - I know this is extreme, but what sort of side could we put together if we traded every player on our list with currency and recruited young/developing players in their place?

I know that wouldn’t be easy but would we improve? Would our list be more balanced?

Something to think about.

We all feel the pain of failure

The good news is that we have enough players with currency that would allow us to trade our way into a completely different side - I know this is extreme, but what sort of side could we put together if we traded every player on our list with currency and recruited young/developing players in their place?

I know that wouldn’t be easy but would we improve? Would our list be more balanced?

Something to think about.

They don't turn up to play, they don't have a go and they give up when it gets too hard. They don't hit their targets, they either don't know what the game plan, don't believe in it, or refuse to follow it. They don't run, they don't tackle, they don't chase, they don't block, and they don't try. They drop marks,  they   miss goals and their ball handling is poor. Their decision making is poor,  their footy IQ is poor and their game awareness is pathetic.
The Club's culture was broken by Elliott 25 to 30 years ago and nobody has been able to fix it. We have changed players,  changed coaches, changed presidents, changed CEO'S, changed boards, changed football managers, changed recruiters and probably changed the mascot, but it doesn't change anything. We have had Vossy,Vossy, Vossy, and Cookie, Cookie, Cookie, and Juddy, Malthouse, Pagen and other Messiahs, we have had resets, top ups, rebuilds, bottoming outs and high expectations. All to no avail. Everyone comes into the place and think that all we need is their special brand of sauce and everything with be fine but it never is. We have fixed up our books, fixed our facilities, fixed up the administration and fixed up the football department. All to no avail. So it has to be something else.
Winners win because they win, losers lose because they lose. Sometimes you have got to win by not losing. Until the Club names its problem it is never going to change.

Quote from: JonDorotich – on April 04, 2025, 07:09:15 pm

We all feel the pain of failure

The good news is that we have enough players with currency that would allow us to trade our way into a completely different side - I know this is extreme, but what sort of side could we put together if we traded every player on our list with currency and recruited young/developing players in their place?

I know that wouldn’t be easy but would we improve? Would our list be more balanced?

Something to think about.

I hope we're not at that stage yet but....
I don't think it's completely without merit
Target players who are consistent in terms of output, work ethic and importantly durability.
They don't have to be flashy types, but are solid posession winners and reasonably skilled.

Build a champion team rather than a team of champions.
But you're right, it wouldn't be easy...it would be a big job and take a skilful recruiter ::) ....and it could be painful in terms of the players we let go.

Quote from: LordLucifer – on April 04, 2025, 05:04:19 pm

Impatient ??

Hells bells, excuse me for thinking that our 30-year premiership drought needs to be considered acceptable & tolerated.

Puting aside the newer clubs (Freo, GWS & GC), the only club with a longer space between flags than us is St.Kilda !!

Thank you for providing me evidence of this.

Has anyone at the club been there for 30 years? No.
So that comment is irrelevent and emotional, devoid of logic.
The use of St. Kilda brings with it emotional connotations that are born from yesteryear and not relevent to today.
Patient is patient with the current regime.

What you are saying is akin to getting road rage because you had to stop at a red light for a minute, so every other red light you shouldn't need to wait at because you used all of your patience on the first one. They are not linked at all. There is no correlation. Each one needs its own patience.
You, and others, calling for peoples head, including the coach,  after 2 rounds is evidence of NOT being patient. Doesn't matter what happened 30 years ago. almost nobody on our team was even alive then, and certainly didn't have any bearing of what happened even 10 years ago.

Your impatience with Motlop (and insert any of 300 players over the past 30 years here) is highlighted on a weekly basis.

Of course we are a passionate club and of course one shoe does not fiit all in our 100k membership base, and bigger supporter base, but you can't argue that we do like to sack a coach and think of the consequences later and despite trying it numerous times, it doesn't work.
A few have argued about insanity and doing same thing over again, that was specific to team selection, but same can be said for supporter outbursts and calls for coaches heads.

Cats broke the cycle when they didn't pull the trigger on sacking Bomber Thompson.
Tigers broke the cycle when they didn't sack Hardwick.
Both of them had worse droughts than us and how did they break it, by not doing the same thing they always did - stopped sacking the coach.

Watching the Cats tonight these high half forwards in Miers and Close are what we need

Add Mannagh and Stengle

Picks 36, 57, rookie draft, rookie draft

We had that round one,   Richmond are terrible

BEST
Collingwood:  Cameron, Schultz, Sidebottom, J.Daicos, N.Daicos, Moore, Pendlebury
Carlton: Hewett, Walsh, Docherty, De Koning

Wow Blue Moon, tell us how you really feel next time, stop holding back!  :o
I felt a bit down before reading your post and now I'm flat as a tack!

Fans see an error and write off a whole performance, Doc was better this week and didn't deserve a negative spotlight.

Quote from: pertz – on April 04, 2025, 08:20:38 pm

Wow Blue Moon, tell us how you really feel next time, stop holding back!  :o
I felt a bit down before reading your post and now I'm flat as a tack!

pertz, sometimes situations give the illusion of proximity, and sometimes they give the illusion of distance. I don't think the 0-4 score line accurately reflects where we are. It's early days. Hang in there.

Quote from: LP – on April 05, 2025, 05:36:26 am

Fans see an error and write off a whole performance, Doc was better this week and didn't deserve a negative spotlight.

He made some mistakes. He didn't go when he 'should have' perhaps (unlike when he's at his confident best) but I think once we get a pre-conception in our head it does tend to cloud our judgement as we watch.
The negative is magnified, and any positive diminished.
He may not have been as good as the stats suggest.
And often a 'howler' undoes a lot of the good work.
But he probably wasn't as bad as we've judged the effort.

Quote from: LP – on April 05, 2025, 05:36:26 am

Fans see an error and write off a whole performance, Doc was better this week and didn't deserve a negative spotlight.

He made some mistakes. He didn't go when he 'should have' perhaps (unlike when he's at his confident best) but I think once we get a pre-conception in our head it does tend to cloud our judgement as we watch.
The negative is magnified, and any positive diminished.
He may not have been as good as the stats suggest.
And often a 'howler' undoes a lot of the good work.
But he probably wasn't as bad as we've judged the effort.

Quote from: Lods – on April 05, 2025, 07:44:54 am

He made some mistakes. He didn't go when he 'should have' perhaps (unlike when he's at his confident best) but I think once we get a pre-conception in our head it does tend to cloud our judgement as we watch.
The negative is magnified, and any positive diminished.
He may not have been as good as the stats suggest.
And often a 'howler' undoes a lot of the good work.
But he probably wasn't as bad as we've judged the effort.

Acres copped plenty of criticism as well and his stats were better than docs.

May have been Doc's best game for the year but he had an opportunity (in the last I think)  where he could have delivered a kick to Will White who was free in the pocket (on the right side for his left foot) and chose to kick to the top of the square where Charlie had to compete against 2 (again). I can't fault Doc's effort but he's making way too many mistakes

I think part of the issue is we're judging these players by what we know they're capable of....and like many of their team-mates, even including Cripps, they are well off that pace.

With so many players off the pace at the one time there is greater pressure on everyone and with pressure comes a lapse in judgement and a breakdown in skills. It may just need the inclusion of a couple of players (Harry. Elijah etc ) and a little of that pressure is transferred and everyone looks a little better.

Quote from: Lods – on April 05, 2025, 09:47:30 am

I think part of the issue is we're judging these players by what we know they're capable of....and like many of their team-mates, even including Cripps, they are well off that pace.

With so many players off the pace at the one time there is greater pressure on everyone and with pressure comes a lapse in judgement and a breakdown in skills. It may just need the inclusion of a couple of players (Harry. Elijah etc ) and a little of that pressure is transferred and everyone looks a little better.

Agree, but let's not make excuses for some of them.

Cant have senior players avoiding contests, Doc is as brave as they come so its not questioning his character but he has lost all confidence attacking the ball and Zac Williams is  another serial offender in that area.
It's non negotiable and usually a sign of clubs hitting rock bottom when players won't commit the body to get the ball and both need a spell in the twos to sort it out.

Once again  this is a bit of a balance thing.

Dropping Docherty after a 27 disoposal game would be the sign of a hard, ruthless club.
(Not sure that's us, but we'll see)

Who would be the target audience for the move though.
You wouldn't do it to look good for the supporters

No, the target would be the players.
"If you don't commit 100% this could be your fate."
The unknown would be... what would be the response from the players.
Would they see it as fair or believe there were others more deserving of banishment.
It's one of those moves that could pay off in a big way....or it could cause a huge rift.

I'm not suggesting they don't do it, just that the consequences may not be what they expect.

I don't recall anyone saying this yet (apologies if i've missed it) but we all agree that Cripps had a poor game. Hey, he is allowed to and certainly due. But has everyone forgotten that he got hurt last week and was struggling to walk.
There was talk about a coccyx, personally i thought it was a hip, may even be ribs. In any event, he went down hard last week and put in a poor one this week. It could be a coincidence, but it might not be.

Do we dare think about resting him?
Or do we do the carlton thing and run them into the ground until we REALLY break them and join there dozen mates on the sidelines.

There was talk about a coccyx, personally i thought it was a hip, may even be ribs. In any event, he went down hard last week and put in a poor one this week. It could be a coincidence, but it might not be.

Quote from: kruddler – on April 05, 2025, 01:00:17 pm

There was talk about a coccyx, personally i thought it was a hip, may even be ribs. In any event, he went down hard last week and put in a poor one this week. It could be a coincidence, but it might not be.

The Coccyx talk was just me being silly.
He landed heavily on his back and it probably winded him, he did seem to have a bit of a limp after so he may have hurt his hip...but whether there was any damage that carried over to this week is hard to know.
Some posters have mentioned a bit of padding on him, and he does seem to lack a bit of his usual explosiveness.

But they won't rest him.

I didn't think Moir should have been selected but if you're going to pick these young guys, then one match in next match out isn't very productive in terms of experience or education.
The problem will be that there is likely to be some selection pressure from tonight's VFL game so he may not get that second chance...this time.

Cant have senior players avoiding contests, Doc is as brave as they come so its not questioning his character but he has lost all confidence attacking the ball and Zac Williams is  another serial offender in that area.
It's non negotiable and usually a sign of clubs hitting rock bottom when players won't commit the body to get the ball and both need a spell in the twos to sort it out.

It is a bit hard for a player like Moir to do well when the ball is down the other end all night and when we come forward the ball movement is slow and the kicks are high and without penertration.

Quote from: kruddler – on April 05, 2025, 01:00:17 pm

There was talk about a coccyx, personally i thought it was a hip, may even be ribs. In any event, he went down hard last week and put in a poor one this week. It could be a coincidence, but it might not be.

The Coccyx talk was just me being silly.
He landed heavily on his back and it probably winded him, he did seem to have a bit of a limp after so he may have hurt his hip...but whether there was any damage that carried over to this week is hard to know.
Some posters have mentioned a bit of padding on him, and he does seem to lack a bit of his usual explosiveness.

But they won't rest him.

I didn't think Moir should have been selected but if you're going to pick these young guys, then one match in next match out isn't very productive in terms of experience or education.
The problem will be that there is likely to be some selection pressure from tonight's VFL game so he may not get that second chance...this time.

Quote from: Lods – on April 05, 2025, 02:27:54 pm

The Coccyx talk was just me being silly.
He landed heavily on his back and it probably winded him, he did seem to have a bit of a limp after so he may have hurt his hip...but whether there was any damage that carried over to this week is hard to know.
Some posters have mentioned a bit of padding on him, and he does seem to lack a bit of his usual explosiveness.

But they won't rest him.

I didn't think Moir should have been selected but if you're going to pick these young guys, then one match in next match out isn't very productive in terms of experience or education.
The problem will be that there is likely to be some selection pressure from tonight's VFL game so he may not get that second chance...this time.

SEN said it was a Coccyx when it did it during the game and then reported he was getting some work done on his Coccyx.   He hasnt looked the same since.   

He was cooked before that point though.  Hasn't looked right all year.  He had a total of 21 disposals only 5 of them kicks.

That's not cripps.