Social Club => Blah-Blah Bar => Topic started by: Lods on April 16, 2025, 03:44:24 pm
Poll
Question: If an election were to be held on the 3rd May (likely) which party would recieve your vote.
Option 1: Labor
votes: 12
Option 2: LNP
votes: 8
Option 3: Greens
votes: 0
Option 4: Teal Independent
votes: 1
Option 5: One Nation
votes: 0
Option 6: Trumpet of Patriots
votes: 1
Option 7: Local Independent
votes: 4
Option 8: None of the Above
votes: 0
Title: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on April 16, 2025, 03:44:24 pm
Well, the demand is overwhelming for this thread, so we might as well give the folks what they want and set it up.
It’s Federal election 2025! Once again we are absolutely spoiled for choice.
You probably have to feel a little sorry for Clive Palmer who has thrown his support and leadership credentials behind the “Strumpets of Patriots” group. In the wake of Trump’s success in the states, who wouldn’t think that running with the slogan “Make Australia Great Again!” wasn’t a great idea…even Jacinta Price agreed.
Australia ‘needs’ Trump policies, declares Palmer… To paraphrase Billy Joel…”You may be right! He may be crazy…but it just may be a lunatic we’re looking for.”
In any event, the recent actions of the POTUS may not be the best act to follow, in terms of popularity.
Who knows what this election will bring. Labor victory, possibly with a minority government, looks to be the pick at the moment, but that could easily change in the coming weeks.
Title: Re: Election 2025
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 16, 2025, 03:56:55 pm
I watched Q&A (I think) on Ch2 the other night fro the first time ever, it had a liberal guy (Michael someone) and Labour minister Clair Oniel, CoM Dep Mayor Roshena Campbell, Zali Steggal and economist Richard Denniss. The Liberal and Labour folk carried on like children for mine, Zali had some good points but the economist tore them all apart new one in my opinion. He spoke about how Australia is rich nation, we may all feel poor at the moment but our fossil fuel production and export make us very wealthy on a world scale. The problem he said is that we dont tax the screwers, we instead subsidise them! He stated Norway is equally wealthy from Fossil Fuel production and export but the tax them hard and use that money, amongst other things, to provide kids with free uni. It seems all the political parties here either fear the fossil fuel producers and exporters or are in bed with them getting kick backs. He also raised the points about banks and health insurers making record profits and yet the premiums have increased upwards of 30% in the last 12 months, interest rates have gone up 12 times and these two jokes of industries pay SFA tax. Its seem clear we need to tax these buggers hard to pay for crap, question is who has the balls to do it? I found the show very eye opening, people in the audience were asking questions and the bozo ministers just deflected. Its not called politics for nothing I guess, sad state of affairs.
Title: Re: Election 2025
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 16, 2025, 04:19:15 pm
I watched Q&A (I think) on Ch2 the other night fro the first time ever, it had a liberal guy (Michael someone) and Labour minister Clair Oniel, CoM Dep Mayor Roshena Campbell, Zali Steggal and economist Richard Denniss. The Liberal and Labour folk carried on like children for mine, Zali had some good points but the economist tore them all apart new one in my opinion. He spoke about how Australia is rich nation, we may all feel poor at the moment but our fossil fuel production and export make us very wealthy on a world scale. The problem he said is that we dont tax the screwers, we instead subsidise them! He stated Norway is equally wealthy from Fossil Fuel production and export but the tax them hard and use that money, amongst other things, to provide kids with free uni. It seems all the political parties here either fear the fossil fuel producers and exporters or are in bed with them getting kick backs. He also raised the points about banks and health insurers making record profits and yet the premiums have increased upwards of 30% in the last 12 months, interest rates have gone up 12 times and these two jokes of industries pay SFA tax. Its seem clear we need to tax these buggers hard to pay for crap, question is who has the balls to do it? I found the show very eye opening, people in the audience were asking questions and the bozo ministers just deflected. Its not called politics for nothing I guess, sad state of affairs.
Problem is if you heavily tax those institutions they just raise their fees/rates to make up the losses and the public pay. I watched Q and A like you and the economist was the only one whose answers had any credibility or common sense. Alabanese, Dutton, Palmer , Pauline and Bandt probably tells you where we are at in terms of choice and ability...none have any economic qualifications as we have seen from their ideas to boost home ownership where they will only increase house prices and its impossible to find anyone worthy to vote for.....
Title: Re: Election 2025
Post by: PaulP on April 16, 2025, 04:23:25 pm
I watched Q&A (I think) on Ch2 the other night fro the first time ever, it had a liberal guy (Michael someone) and Labour minister Clair Oniel, CoM Dep Mayor Roshena Campbell, Zali Steggal and economist Richard Denniss. The Liberal and Labour folk carried on like children for mine, Zali had some good points but the economist tore them all apart new one in my opinion. He spoke about how Australia is rich nation, we may all feel poor at the moment but our fossil fuel production and export make us very wealthy on a world scale. The problem he said is that we dont tax the screwers, we instead subsidise them! He stated Norway is equally wealthy from Fossil Fuel production and export but the tax them hard and use that money, amongst other things, to provide kids with free uni. It seems all the political parties here either fear the fossil fuel producers and exporters or are in bed with them getting kick backs. He also raised the points about banks and health insurers making record profits and yet the premiums have increased upwards of 30% in the last 12 months, interest rates have gone up 12 times and these two jokes of industries pay SFA tax. Its seem clear we need to tax these buggers hard to pay for crap, question is who has the balls to do it? I found the show very eye opening, people in the audience were asking questions and the bozo ministers just deflected. Its not called politics for nothing I guess, sad state of affairs.
Given the significant rightward drift of the global political climate in recent decades, advocating that the wealthy and corporations pay their fair share of tax is basically a Bernie Sanders policy.
Title: Re: Election 2025
Post by: Thryleon on April 16, 2025, 07:00:05 pm
The sad part is, we all know, no matter what happens, the status quo will remain, we will get thrown a bone, we will pay for that bone from somewhere currently obscure, and life will continue until the next election.
All that changes is the next batch of elected leaders, who will get a fat pension worth more than my super every will be for the rest of their days.
I dont see how anyone can expect anything to change whilst that remains. I wonder if they cut the slush fund whether or not that would change things for the better.
Title: Re: Election 2025
Post by: PaulP on April 16, 2025, 07:19:50 pm
The sad part is, we all know, no matter what happens, the status quo will remain, we will get thrown a bone, we will pay for that bone from somewhere currently obscure, and life will continue until the next election.
All that changes is the next batch of elected leaders, who will get a fat pension worth more than my super every will be for the rest of their days.
I dont see how anyone can expect anything to change whilst that remains. I wonder if they cut the slush fund whether or not that would change things for the better.
When I was a kid, those policies (fairer tax structures) were mainstream. Now they're fringe.
There will always be groups / individuals who will want to skew things in their favour, at great cost to everyone else. We need a far more active, resistant constituency, who will fight for their hard earned rights, and demand the politicians be accountable. To quote Karl Popper, "The question is not how to get good people to rule; the question is: how to stop the powerful from doing as much damage as they can to us."
Title: Re: Election 2025
Post by: Professer E on April 16, 2025, 08:13:06 pm
Been getting some very unsavoury material in my letterbox & and it isn't from any party. Looks like some branch of some right wing fascists....and they clearly don't like Albanese. Lot of disinformation and BS flying around - more so than usual.
Title: Re: Election 2025
Post by: northernblue on April 17, 2025, 01:57:53 am
Been getting some very unsavoury material in my letterbox & and it isn't from any party. Looks like some branch of some right wing fascists....and they clearly don't like Albanese. Lot of disinformation and BS flying around - more so than usual.
Just a follow on from the us… Dutton, Palmer, Hansen…
Title: Re: Election 2025
Post by: Thryleon on April 25, 2025, 08:17:22 am
So let's move on the the current election. Was reading through our independents policies and came across one i found interesting. They want to do away with stamp duty and implement a land tax instead. Now personally I read this and thought how disgraceful. I've paid my whack of stamp duty why should I now have to continue paying land tax because of policy change?
Is this only going to apply for new purchases?
What's to stop the degree of land tax shifting?
Very dissapointed to see but curious, what do people think of this?
Title: Re: Election 2025
Post by: shawny on April 25, 2025, 08:42:52 am
Hard to believe Albo is leading the polls. Says more about the lack of opposition that the worse PM in our history is favorite to get another term.
HTF that goose gets to lead any country says a lot of the deplorable state of politics in this country.
Title: Re: Election 2025
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 25, 2025, 09:04:27 am
Hard to believe Albo is leading the polls. Says more about the lack of opposition that the worse PM in our history is favorite to get another term.
HTF that goose gets to lead any country says a lot of the deplorable state of politics in this country.
All you hear is people complaining about the state of the nation and our state (cost of living, int rates, youth crime, DV etc) and yet the goons whose watch all this occurred on will get re-elected. There is no choice as they are all as pathetic as one another, I have never been so disillusioned leading up to an election. I had hoped in my lifetime I would get to see a decent public servant rise to the occasion to lead our state and nation however I doubt I will. I wish at least some level of accountability for policy implementation promised during the campaigns could be put in place.
Title: Re: Election 2025
Post by: Lods on April 25, 2025, 09:08:35 am
So let's move on the the current election. Was reading through our independents policies and came across one i found interesting. They want to do away with stamp duty and implement a land tax instead. Now personally I read this and thought how disgraceful. I've paid my whack of stamp duty why should I now have to continue paying land tax because of policy change?
Is this only going to apply for new purchases?
What's to stop the degree of land tax shifting?
Very dissapointed to see but curious, what do people think of this?
Is that independent one of the Teal candidates Thry? There's a good chance the next government will be a minority one. It may be that that Teal group are in a position to have some influence over decision making. If it's just an 'independent' indendent they can say what they like because they'll never have to deliver.
That group of Palmer's are promising a lot of things they'll never be in a position to deliver.
Title: Re: Election 2025
Post by: Lods on April 25, 2025, 09:13:42 am
Hard to believe Albo is leading the polls. Says more about the lack of opposition that the worse PM in our history is favorite to get another term.
HTF that goose gets to lead any country says a lot of the deplorable state of politics in this country.
It does say a lot about the opposition. If they lose, Dutton will no doubt be rolled....but can anyone think of a replacement in that party who would be any more electable, certainly not Susan Ley the current deputy.
Title: Re: Election 2025
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 25, 2025, 09:19:18 am
Hard to believe Albo is leading the polls. Says more about the lack of opposition that the worse PM in our history is favorite to get another term.
HTF that goose gets to lead any country says a lot of the deplorable state of politics in this country.
It does say a lot about the opposition. If they lose, Dutton will no doubt be rolled....but can anyone think of a replacement in that party who would be any more electable, certainly not Susan Ley the current deputy.
Susan Ley? Good Lord no! Dutton was the wrong choice to lead the Libs but the cupboard was and still is bare for them. How bad are the opposition parties when they can't knock off movements who have performed so poorly. Promised much and delivered nothing.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on April 25, 2025, 09:55:06 am
Let's get a look at our political leanings as a group...
I've added a poll to the thread. If I've left out a major group let me know and I'll fix it up (early rise for the dawn service and I'm a bit of a zombie at the moment :D )
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on April 25, 2025, 12:10:59 pm
Is that independent one of the Teal candidates Thry? There's a good chance the next government will be a minority one. It may be that that Teal group are in a position to have some influence over decision making. If it's just an 'independent' indendent they can say what they like because they'll never have to deliver.
That group of Palmer's are promising a lot of things they'll never be in a position to deliver.
its a teal based on the colour of the flyer?
Honestly I was shocked to read it. Sure i got a 10k first home owner Grant on 500k home way back when, but our stamp duty was about 40k to go with it. If I get slugged land tax on top I'll be livid.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Professer E on April 25, 2025, 04:48:35 pm
On the Bellarine the "vacancy tax" in addition to greatly increased land taxes (400%) is playing havoc with prices. People are dumping places, and in my neighbours words "p!ssing off to Queensland where we don't get reamed for owning a holiday house".
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 25, 2025, 04:58:37 pm
On the Bellarine the "vacancy tax" in addition to greatly increased land taxes (400%) is playing havoc with prices. People are dumping places, and in my neighbours words "p!ssing off to Queensland where we don't get reamed for owning a holiday house".
My bought a property in Port Douglas, he reckons the Qld government collects land tax for that property plus tax on any other property you may have in Victoria. He owns a few rentals here so he will be up for a bundle.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: northernblue on April 25, 2025, 06:08:53 pm
On the Bellarine the "vacancy tax" in addition to greatly increased land taxes (400%) is playing havoc with prices. People are dumping places, and in my neighbours words "p!ssing off to Queensland where we don't get reamed for owning a holiday house".
My bought a property in Port Douglas, he reckons the Qld government collects land tax for that property plus tax on any other property you may have in Victoria. He owns a few rentals here so he will be up for a bundle.
Qld gov collects land tax on Victorian property…? 🤔
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 25, 2025, 06:26:50 pm
My bought a property in Port Douglas, he reckons the Qld government collects land tax for that property plus tax on any other property you may have in Victoria. He owns a few rentals here so he will be up for a bundle.
Qld gov collects land tax on Victorian property…? 🤔
Land tax in Queensland is based on the total value of Australian land owned by a taxpayer.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 25, 2025, 06:38:04 pm
Land tax in Queensland is based on the total value of Australian land owned by a taxpayer.
Good country this. A friend of mine from England originally but living here gets stung over there for tax on a property he owns here.
Agree ...times are tough and everyone including all levels of government are trying to hit you up for extra money and in the most ludicrous of ways. You can plant some vegies, get some sheep on your land so you can call yourself a primary producer or start a cult, build a chapel then register yourself as a charity to get an exemption...😉
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 25, 2025, 07:09:26 pm
Good country this. A friend of mine from England originally but living here gets stung over there for tax on a property he owns here.
Agree ...times are tough and everyone including all levels of government are trying to hit you up for extra money and in the most ludicrous of ways.
And this current government certainly knows how to spend it! As Kerry Packer once said "as a Government I can tell you youre not spending it that well that we should be donating extra"
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: tonyo on April 25, 2025, 09:08:56 pm
Been getting some very unsavoury material in my letterbox & and it isn't from any party. Looks like some branch of some right wing fascists....and they clearly don't like Albanese. Lot of disinformation and BS flying around - more so than usual.
There's a mob called Advance Australia, a rich boys' lobby group, who specialise in spreading disinformation in support of a very conservative agenda.
There was an article about them in the Good Weekend Age last week. Worth reading.
We are getting more like the States, where people learn most of their political information from 20 second ads on TV and social media memes. Both sides are doing it.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 25, 2025, 11:32:33 pm
Clive Palmer....how can this clown be allowed to run a political party and flood our TVs with his advertising thats just a collection of simplistic popularist unrealistic policies? Then you look at his involvement with this airstrip he condemns in his advertising that is meant to be the gateway for China to invade and then you find out the structure of companies involved and how it came about and how Palmer is profiting from it. Its hilarious really that he even has the gonads to produce the rubbish advertising that he does every election and its hard to take Aus politics seriously anymore, there is no one fit to run the country unfortunately. If we had a sacked, cracked and backed list for politicians the sacked column would be full...
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on April 26, 2025, 07:45:46 am
Palmer is as transparent as a fish tank. He's an opportunist who believed he saw a chance. He thought he could ride the coat tails of Trump like policies, and campaign strategies, into some political gain. Seemed like a good idea at the time....it had worked pretty well in the States. Surely there was a ground swell of 'like thinking' folk in Oz.
What Palmer didn't take into account was the 'lag time' between Trump's election and the Australian one. That's given Trump's 'bat crap' crazy shenanigans time to impact, and generally people are just seeing chaos. There will still be those who may support the "Trumpettes" but it won't be the revolutionary support Palmer thought and would have hoped to see.
As we all know there are only two polls that count....election day and the CSC poll. Looks like Dutton is in trouble a week out...but he's going a lot better than Palmer.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Professer E on April 26, 2025, 08:52:09 am
I twigged pretty quickly Tonyo that it's some kind of MAGA aligned group. The fact that I've now seen their ads on TV is a bit alarming. Their style is always "X is crap, X is rubbish etc" but they never give any outline of who is better and what they are actually going do to "fix" or improve whatever they think is crap.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Baggers on April 26, 2025, 09:03:20 am
Qualities of a real leader: Excellent communication skills, Vision, Courage, Empathy, Honesty/Integrity, Self-reflection/Awareness, Ability to Include and Inspire, Intellectual and Emotional Intelligence, Humility and Accountability (there are more!).
I've had the very good fortune over the duration to have met and worked with a number of people who demonstrated those leadership qualities and values. But none of them were politicians.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 26, 2025, 09:06:48 am
Qualities of a real leader: Excellent communication skills, Vision, Courage, Empathy, Honesty/Integrity, Self-reflection/Awareness, Ability to Include and Inspire, Intellectual and Emotional Intelligence, Humility and Accountability (there are more!).
I've had the very good fortune over the duration to have met and worked with a number of people who demonstrated those leadership qualities and values. But none of them were politicians.
Here endeth the lesson.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on April 26, 2025, 09:55:02 am
Qualities of a real leader: Excellent communication skills, Vision, Courage, Empathy, Honesty/Integrity, Self-reflection/Awareness, Ability to Include and Inspire, Intellectual and Emotional Intelligence, Humility and Accountability (there are more!).
I've had the very good fortune over the duration to have met and worked with a number of people who demonstrated those leadership qualities and values. But none of them were politicians.
the ones most capable of leading would never want to.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Baggers on April 26, 2025, 04:24:37 pm
Qualities of a real leader: Excellent communication skills, Vision, Courage, Empathy, Honesty/Integrity, Self-reflection/Awareness, Ability to Include and Inspire, Intellectual and Emotional Intelligence, Humility and Accountability (there are more!).
I've had the very good fortune over the duration to have met and worked with a number of people who demonstrated those leadership qualities and values. But none of them were politicians.
the ones most capable of leading would never want to.
There was a time when they did. In fact, some of society's most outstanding folks chose a career in politics to serve, to bring about positive change, who cared so deeply about humanity they saw it as an honour to (really) serve.
But, as you point out 3 Leos, who'd want to muddy themselves in the hopeless political mire of opportunism, divisiveness, populism, dishonesty and self-aggrandizement that exists today.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on April 26, 2025, 10:08:42 pm
If you have been spam bombed by Clive Palmer’s political arm, aka Strumpet of Partiarchy, H Fong is Harry Fong, a criminal lawyer (read that any way you choose). The QLD Bar Association records his mobile number as 0419 788 168 and his landline is (07) 2123 3068.
Feel free to let young Harry know what you think of his political affiliation and spam SMSs.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on April 27, 2025, 09:20:06 pm
Anyone watched tonight's debate?
Thought Dutton went bang and knocked Albanese for 6.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on April 27, 2025, 09:50:50 pm
Somehow the people in the room thought differently.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 27, 2025, 10:14:29 pm
Thought Dutton went bang and knocked Albanese for 6.
I watched it, I thought it was was 50/50.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 27, 2025, 10:23:29 pm
The price of eggs reminded me of the GST on a baked cake that haunted John Hewson and will splash all over the newspapers etc ...not great from Dutton as well as the Nuclear energy path also seems a turn off for voters. It's not that Albanese is offering anything new tonight or being impressive more about Dutton probably alienating some voters and I gave the win to Albanese by default.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 27, 2025, 10:25:20 pm
The price of eggs reminded me of the GST on a baked cake that haunted John Hewson and will splash all over the newspapers etc ...not great from Dutton as well as the Nuclear energy path also seems a turn off for voters. It's not that Albanese is offering anything new tonight or being impressive more about Dutton probably alienating some voters and I gave the win to Albanese by default.
Unless you do any shopping, how would you know the price of anything? Then there are numpties like me who do some of the shopping and still couldn't tell you the prices of stuff.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 27, 2025, 10:38:29 pm
The price of eggs reminded me of the GST on a baked cake that haunted John Hewson and will splash all over the newspapers etc ...not great from Dutton as well as the Nuclear energy path also seems a turn off for voters. It's not that Albanese is offering anything new tonight or being impressive more about Dutton probably alienating some voters and I gave the win to Albanese by default.
Unless you do any shopping, how would you know the price of anything? Then there are numpties like me who do some of the shopping and still couldn't tell you the prices of stuff.
Eggs are a staple like bread and milk so I think a lot of working class folk know the prices and will find that disturbing and Dutton out of touch. It will be highlighted in the media like Hewsons cake fiasco when he couldnt explain his GST and it cost him the election imo.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: dodge on April 27, 2025, 11:03:40 pm
I haven't heard or seen (I haven't looked either) anything about vision for Australia. LNP has get Aus back on track - but to what and where - when was Aus last on track - just pick up and continue from there? What do the parties want Aus to look like?
Tax cuts/rebates (incl excise)? Instead of minimal bribes, why don't you tackle genuine tax reform? Too hard, too much vested interest?
Instead of energy rebates - tackle the issue of high prices. Why do the regulators not step in and reduce increases? (Same with private health).
Vic tried to introduce cents per km charge for EVs, but didn't have jurisdiction. How is the fuel excise lost from EVs going to be replaced? Yet, there are gov incentives to buy EVs.
Can either party explain their immigration policy? Yes, we need students (if not Uni funding needs to jncrease), need backpackers for fruitpicking etc, need professionals to cover skill shortages etc. How does this fit with their vision for Aust?
LNP - if you are serious about nuclear energy, tell us and answer questions - how much will it cost, how will it be funded, will it be private or public, where are the skills to make the plants going to come from, what % of power will this provide, how does it fit with closure of coal stations?
What are the water policies? How do they both preserve the environment, assist farmers and supply people? It feels in Melb that days of rain is much reduced, but when it rains there is a lot.
There's more, but my rant is too long. Lack of vision is disturbing.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 27, 2025, 11:27:28 pm
Unless you do any shopping, how would you know the price of anything? Then there are numpties like me who do some of the shopping and still couldn't tell you the prices of stuff.
Eggs are a staple like bread and milk so I think a lot of working class folk know the prices and will find that disturbing and Dutton out of touch. It will be highlighted in the media like Hewsons cake fiasco when he couldnt explain his GST and it cost him the election imo.
I get the GST fiasco, I get that egg etc are a staple but I couldn't tell you the price of a dozen eggs, a litre of milk or a loaf of bread and I do the shopping often. Guess I cant be PM.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: dodge on April 27, 2025, 11:46:32 pm
Prices of staples is a stupid, lazy question and is not related to reality for politicians. Doesn't mean they're out of touch. When it is policy related, that is different.
When they tell me that I will save $1500 a year on fuel excise, I am suspicious: 2 cars. One takes ~45 litres, the other 55. Fill them every 3rd week or so. 100 litres @ $0.25 = $25 saving both tanks. Times 17 weeks = $425. Or: if petrol prices are $1.80 for 91, do they only go down to $1.70, because private companies don't pass on the 25c? And as many enquiries have found out, there are few controls gov has on petrol prices.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on April 27, 2025, 11:56:19 pm
Yep That price of staples is a nonsense question. I do all our shopping and I couldn't tell you within a couple of dollars the prices of some of those things. There are variations of brands and the prices can fluctuate quite a bit
Go to Aldi and you can probably get any of those things a dollar or two cheaper I'm pretty certain the people asking the question have no idea....they will look up a random price the day they ask the question.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 28, 2025, 07:30:43 am
Yep That price of staples is a nonsense question. I do all our shopping and I couldn't tell you within a couple of dollars the prices of some of those things. There are variations of brands and the prices can fluctuate quite a bit
Go to Aldi and you can probably get any of those things a dollar or two cheaper I'm pretty certain the people asking the question have no idea....they will look up a random price the day they ask the question.
I was going to say that if people base their decision on a candidate knowing the price of eggs or not, we are in more strife than I thought.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on April 28, 2025, 08:20:36 am
Prices of staples is a stupid, lazy question and is not related to reality for politicians. Doesn't mean they're out of touch. When it is policy related, that is different.
When they tell me that I will save $1500 a year on fuel excise, I am suspicious: 2 cars. One takes ~45 litres, the other 55. Fill them every 3rd week or so. 100 litres @ $0.25 = $25 saving both tanks. Times 17 weeks = $425. Or: if petrol prices are $1.80 for 91, do they only go down to $1.70, because private companies don't pass on the 25c? And as many enquiries have found out, there are few controls gov has on petrol prices.
Dodge this is something that got missed, but the price of fuel directly impacts thr supply chain of getting stock on shelves at the supermarkets.
Fuel down by 25 cents a litre will make a massive difference to every Australian, and will arguably do more to reduce the cost of living than a lot of measures. When you consider this think of all the diesel machines in use. Roads, diggers, delivery mechanisms. The energy component of this is being glossed over way too much and not enough credence being given to why things have become a expensive as they are.
Your personal fuel consumption sounds at the lighter end of usage. The size of your tanks are for small cars by the sounds of things hence why you don't save as much but do the same maths on two cars with 60 litre tanks and filling up once a fortnight instead because they travel more.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on April 28, 2025, 09:19:10 am
I don’t know the price of eggs because I have chooks and have only bought a couple of dozen eggs over the last eight years.
However, the price of eggs is important to many folk and any aspiring prime minister should make the effort to know how much basic groceries cost. It may not be all that relevant to running the country but many voters will see it as being out of touch with the issues they’re dealing with.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 28, 2025, 09:50:45 am
Prices of staples is a stupid, lazy question and is not related to reality for politicians. Doesn't mean they're out of touch. When it is policy related, that is different.
When they tell me that I will save $1500 a year on fuel excise, I am suspicious: 2 cars. One takes ~45 litres, the other 55. Fill them every 3rd week or so. 100 litres @ $0.25 = $25 saving both tanks. Times 17 weeks = $425. Or: if petrol prices are $1.80 for 91, do they only go down to $1.70, because private companies don't pass on the 25c? And as many enquiries have found out, there are few controls gov has on petrol prices.
Fuel excise cuts will have inflationary effects and not help the reserve banks demeanour about cutting rates. It's a short term sugar hit and Dutton has failed to explain what he is doing with truckies who already get a cut.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on April 28, 2025, 09:54:54 am
I really don't think shopping people are the least bit concerned about the individual prices of things like eggs, milk bread etc As a shopper I really don't pay that much attention. What does concern them is what they pay at the checkout... and that's gone up.
Many of those things are determined by supply and brand choice. Things like fruit and vegetables are all over the shop and there can be dollar jumps or drops overnight. If weather conditions or storms affect a specific crop then the prices will go up. Last week's price bears no resemblance to this weeks price...or next weeks.
Go to the supermarket and have a look at a specifc section and you'll find a whole range of prices depending on brand. Now go to Aldi and you'll probably pay less for the same product. Drop around to IGA and you may pay more.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on April 28, 2025, 10:07:31 am
I really don't think shopping people are the least bit concerned about the individual prices of things like eggs, milk bread etc As a shopper I really don't pay that much attention. What does concern them is what they pay at the checkout... and that's gone up.
That should have been the focus of phrasing the answer to the question, you should run for the top job! ;D
I'm exactly the same as yourself, I only do a bit of food shopping here or there and a couple of times a year I get involved in the bigger shops. I notice the total and can't tell you a single item price even when I've compared prices on the shelf, but I can tell you the total is 30% to 50% higher at the moment than it was this time last year, quantity for quantity. It's a bit deceptive, because a lot of products have changed size, they have the same per item price but the package is smaller, which means the standard unit pricing is higher.
But I can tell you how much a slab of my favourite beer costs, and that has risen about 25%, and as a tinkerer I can tell you the typical price for Bosch, Dewalt, Makita or even Ozito power tools from Bunnings, Total Tools or Sydney Tools. Dutton should have posed that back at the panel as it's important to every tradie, and would expose the ignorance of an egg, milk or bread question.
I find it ironic that a foodie question is posed by some people who I doubt cook even a crumpet!
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 28, 2025, 10:28:49 am
Fuel is another thing I really dont pay attention to the price of. Reality is I need it and I dont shop around for cheap fuel given I only use BP (diesel and 98 for the cars) or Shell but very rarely.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: dodge on April 28, 2025, 10:41:53 am
There are already diesel rebates for vehicles over 4.5t. However, it will only impact supply chain if the savings are passed on through cheaper prices. Corporate Australia hasn't got a great track record for passing on savings. The LNP page doesn't say anything about this - just talks about savings to families at the pump and small businesses.
Yes, we are at the very light end of travel - nearly all of our driving is local, but to save $1,500 a year is 6,000 litres - 3,000 litres per car. If you get 10l/100k, that is 60,000k for the two cars. How many really do that.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on April 28, 2025, 12:12:53 pm
There are already diesel rebates for vehicles over 4.5t. However, it will only impact supply chain if the savings are passed on through cheaper prices. Corporate Australia hasn't got a great track record for passing on savings. The LNP page doesn't say anything about this - just talks about savings to families at the pump and small businesses.
Yes, we are at the very light end of travel - nearly all of our driving is local, but to save $1,500 a year is 6,000 litres - 3,000 litres per car. If you get 10l/100k, that is 60,000k for the two cars. How many really do that.
I fill my Landcruiser every three months or so and our small car gets 5l/100k so it's unlikely that we would get much benefit at the pump.
I guess that the rebate could benefit local delivery drivers, but that's not going bring down the price of goods and services.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 28, 2025, 12:58:16 pm
I really don't think shopping people are the least bit concerned about the individual prices of things like eggs, milk bread etc As a shopper I really don't pay that much attention. What does concern them is what they pay at the checkout... and that's gone up.
Many of those things are determined by supply and brand choice. Things like fruit and vegetables are all over the shop and there can be dollar jumps or drops overnight. If weather conditions or storms affect a specific crop then the prices will go up. Last week's price bears no resemblance to this weeks price...or next weeks.
Go to the supermarket and have a look at a specifc section and you'll find a whole range of prices depending on brand. Now go to Aldi and you'll probably pay less for the same product. Drop around to IGA and you may pay more.
I think in poorer electorates where there are more pensioners, high mortgage stress and folk doing it tough they will know the prices of staples and have a different view of Dutton's lack of knowledge of the basics of life. These are probably pro ALP working mans areas where Dutton doesnt care anyway because he has little chance of taking the seat so its probably no big deal to him. I must be old school as I make it my business to know what I am paying with my hard earned and dont like getting ripped off as the total price you pay at the checkout is made up of all the items you buy. I digress....Eggs have been in short supply in Melbourne during March in particular and the price has gone up due to Chicken Flu that has hit farms and it doesnt matter which supermarket you buy at the prices are about the same. Cage produced eggs are being phased out which will also be putting up prices, I think people forget too that eggs are a major source of Protein and that often poorer folk have to substitute them for expensive sources like meat etc. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-02-28/egg-prices-likely-to-remain-high-shortage-may-last-until-2028/104993728
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on April 28, 2025, 02:16:23 pm
The thing is there is no set answer to the stupid question
Coles and Woolies might be around $8.00 a large doz carton (I think that's the price they used last night)
Woolies brand are around $6.20 Extra large $8.80 Organic $14.00 Hill top free range $ 15.50
At Aldi you can get a doz large from around $5.50-6.00 At IGA on special you can get black and gold for $5.40
These prices will no doubt change next week, and the week after and the week after...then there will be the red spot specials to confuse everyone.
There's plenty of ammunition for people to criticize Dutton on, but the price of eggs is 'jerk' journalism.
Albo is obviously a generic Woolies shopper, Dutton's a 'specials' man
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: dodge on April 28, 2025, 02:29:58 pm
One answer to a queston I had:
This morning [Sunday] on ABC’s Insider’s program, Shadow Infrastructure minister Bridget McKenzie said that Electric Vehicle drivers should pay a road usage charge and that this will be considered should they win Government at the upcoming Federal Election.
The announcement comes during an interview with host David Speers.
Federal Treasurer Jim Chalmers reportedly told a Business Council of Australia dinner in Canberra last week an EV road user charge is on the agenda This was at a Business Council Australia lunch
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on April 28, 2025, 03:05:01 pm
The thing is there is no set answer to the stupid question
Coles and Woolies might be around $8.00 a large doz carton (I think that's the price they used last night)
Woolies brand are around $6.20 Extra large $8.80 Organic $14.00 Hill top free range $ 15.50
At Aldi you can get a doz large from around $5.50-6.00 At IGA on special you can get black and gold for $5.40
These prices will no doubt change next week, and the week after and the week after...then there will be the red spot specials to confuse everyone.
There's plenty of ammunition for people to criticize Dutton on, but the price of eggs is 'jerk' journalism.
Albo is obviously a generic Woolies shopper, Dutton's a 'specials' man
Paid $6.60 at Coles for large dozen...good luck to Dutton getting them for $4.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: kruddler on April 28, 2025, 04:09:14 pm
I didn't see the debate, but i think these questions are asked for a variety of reason, least of which is to get the right answer.
You ask it to see how someone does under pressure. You ask it to see how honest someone is. You ask it to make a fool out of someone if they don't do well with both of the above.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: PaulP on April 29, 2025, 04:57:37 pm
^^ Seems to be a tactic to make the Liberals look bad.
They left in tears...
Words are violence these days I suppose.
What has happened to the world we live in?
Confused, 3 Leos. Not sure what you're asserting here and don't want to jump to conclusions. Crying after being bullied is not an unreasonable reaction, or unusual response/reaction... or is that not what you're saying?
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: RiverRat on April 29, 2025, 05:37:57 pm
Murray Watt, the so-called Labor attack dog, bears a strong resemblance to the Sontaran warriors from Dr Who
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: PaulP on April 29, 2025, 05:47:13 pm
I'm just passing on what I've read on socials. There are a couple of stories that have already made the news. The rest are just ordinary people describing their experiences at various electorates around the country. The stories are either true or they're not. That's for others to decide.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on April 29, 2025, 06:54:16 pm
We voted today and had to run the gauntlet of party workers handing out “how to vote” leaflets. They were all quite respectful and backed off when I announced that I had been voting for 50 years and didn’t need instructions on how to vote … that even got a few laughs.
I find the hardest part is deciding who to put last on the Senate ballot paper; several parties/individuals deserve that honour. The best solution was to stop numbering boxes when I got to 40 but that’s not as satisfying as when there’s a standout drop kick.
Interestingly, I know two of our local candidates quite well and they’re both good people.
I don’t think that I’ll go back to voting on election day but I do miss the democracy sausages 😢
As for party folk trying to stand over voters, that’s always been an occasional issue. I remember a mate’s father getting into a punch on when a couple of DLP goons went too far in their efforts to get him to vote for their bloke. However, in my experience everyone is respectful and good humoured, as they should be.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on April 29, 2025, 07:23:51 pm
^^ Seems to be a tactic to make the Liberals look bad.
They left in tears...
Words are violence these days I suppose.
What has happened to the world we live in?
Confused, 3 Leos. Not sure what you're asserting here and don't want to jump to conclusions. Crying after being bullied is not an unreasonable reaction, or unusual response/reaction... or is that not what you're saying?
That its all likely to be grandstanding to sway public opinion.
Particularly if we are talking volunteers handing out leaflets at a poll booth.
They all spruik their party politics. Most of the time I ignore everything they say, accept the leaflets and hand them back on the way out.
I left in tears due to the bullying. Pandering to the exact sort of emotion that illicit a vote in that direction against the big bad liberal party.
Don't believe anything you read on social media that has any political connotations. If this doesn't hit the news at 6pm on tv(and no, social media representing seven news is not the same thing) then it's not likely truthful and is yet another propaganda campaign to influence how people vote.
Propaganda is the number one tool in the method of swaying the population. Has been for centuries.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on April 29, 2025, 07:55:10 pm
Yep Take everything you read on social media regarding antics at polling booths with a grain of salt. Some of it will be true. Some exaggerated and some completely false. There will be shenanigans all over the shop. Folks will get involved who have no formal party affiliations ..just a bee in the bonnet. If the police get involved and catch perpetrators it will be reported by news organisations and have some validity...but social media...forget it. Social media at election time is a good tool to make the other side look bad... there are no controls or restrictions on what people can post....and every party's followers can use it as they please.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on April 29, 2025, 08:06:39 pm
Confused, 3 Leos. Not sure what you're asserting here and don't want to jump to conclusions. Crying after being bullied is not an unreasonable reaction, or unusual response/reaction... or is that not what you're saying?
That its all likely to be grandstanding to sway public opinion.
Particularly if we are talking volunteers handing out leaflets at a poll booth.
They all spruik their party politics. Most of the time I ignore everything they say, accept the leaflets and hand them back on the way out.
I left in tears due to the bullying. Pandering to the exact sort of emotion that illicit a vote in that direction against the big bad liberal party.
Don't believe anything you read on social media that has any political connotations. If this doesn't hit the news at 6pm on tv(and no, social media representing seven news is not the same thing) then it's not likely truthful and is yet another propaganda campaign to influence how people vote.
Propaganda is the number one tool in the method of swaying the population. Has been for centuries.
Do you really think that volunteers complaining about an over-zealous party volunteer is going to sway public opinion?
Political parties, even the flakey minor parties, are a little more sophisticated than that.
The fact that volunteers from both the ALP and a Teal independent complained and the alleged offender departed before the police arrived suggests that there’s more than a kernel of truth to the story.
Sometimes the media - and this was mainstream rather than social - get the basics right and there’s no need to come up with alternative theories 🙂
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: PaulP on April 29, 2025, 08:30:05 pm
The stories certainly have legs : the issue is how many legs and whether they are isolated spot fires or symptomatic of a greater radicalization of Australian politics. Neither Dutton, nor Palmer, nor others of their ilk have made any attempt to conceal their mimicking of Trumpism.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on April 29, 2025, 08:45:27 pm
Without getting into individual policy likes and dislikes because that's a personal thing for all of us...and there are pros and cons on both sides...but many come with consequences...
I consider myself pretty much a centrist. I've voted for both major parties on numerous occasions over the journey. Five days out and I'm a bit torn on this one. I'm in a fairly safe Liberal seat so my vote will have little impact. I don't feel that the Liberals have convinced me that they've done enough to win government. But the Labor party don't really inspire me either. Voting independent, or others, isn't really an option either. It's a wasted vote useful only as a protest vote. At the moment the one thing that may swing me is that the only candidate that has taken the time to doorknock our area is the incumbent Liberal, who spent a good ten minutes with me talking more about local issues and the agenda he would push to get benefits for the electorate. Not a lot of time but more than any others. I still haven't 100% committed and though it's unlikely the LNP will get up, and his impact may be limited, I might give him my 'encouragement and participation' award.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 29, 2025, 09:42:19 pm
Without getting into individual policy likes and dislikes because that's a personal thing for all of us...and there are pros and cons on both sides...but many come with consequences...
I consider myself pretty much a centrist. I've voted for both major parties on numerous occasions over the journey. Five days out and I'm a bit torn on this one. I'm in a fairly safe Liberal seat so my vote will have little impact. I don't feel that the Liberals have convinced me that they've done enough to win government. But the Labor party don't really inspire me either. Voting independent, or others, isn't really an option either. It's a wasted vote useful only as a protest vote. At the moment the one thing that may swing me is that the only candidate that has taken the time to doorknock our area is the incumbent Liberal, who spent a good ten minutes with me talking more about local issues and the agenda he would push to get benefits for the electorate. Not a lot of time but more than any others. I still haven't 100% committed and though it's unlikely the LNP will get up, and his impact may be limited, I might give him my 'encouragement and participation' award.
Im the opposite to you Lods in that Im in a safe Labour seat but my vote will also count for nothing. No one has ever door knocked us and Ive been here since 1992. I wish someone took the time to come talk to us. The LNP are no chance of getting up so we are in for 3-4 more years of pain under the Labour Party unfortunately.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on April 29, 2025, 11:22:32 pm
That its all likely to be grandstanding to sway public opinion.
Particularly if we are talking volunteers handing out leaflets at a poll booth.
They all spruik their party politics. Most of the time I ignore everything they say, accept the leaflets and hand them back on the way out.
I left in tears due to the bullying. Pandering to the exact sort of emotion that illicit a vote in that direction against the big bad liberal party.
Don't believe anything you read on social media that has any political connotations. If this doesn't hit the news at 6pm on tv(and no, social media representing seven news is not the same thing) then it's not likely truthful and is yet another propaganda campaign to influence how people vote.
Propaganda is the number one tool in the method of swaying the population. Has been for centuries.
Do you really think that volunteers complaining about an over-zealous party volunteer is going to sway public opinion?
Political parties, even the flakey minor parties, are a little more sophisticated than that.
The fact that volunteers from both the ALP and a Teal independent complained and the alleged offender departed before the police arrived suggests that there’s more than a kernel of truth to the story.
Sometimes the media - and this was mainstream rather than social - get the basics right and there’s no need to come up with alternative theories 🙂
Your author https://7news.com.au/profile/sarah-keszler
The article, is a one sided report, based on alleged activity, with minimal proof and maximum grandstanding by the very victims.
The AEC encouraged the police to be called for bullying by volunteers. Are we sure this is what happened?
My instant response is to dismiss this as pure emotive propaganda, and in response to your claim, it's got people up and about online. So yes, people will be swayed by this.
No, it isn't balanced reporting of events, no its isn't substantiated and who knows what was actually said and done given the behaviour isn't commented on but the reaction is.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: dodge on April 30, 2025, 01:12:57 am
Voting shenanigans have always existed, but as everything, seems to be getting more exaggerated. Particularly with so many early votes - fewer polling stations and more idle volunteers.
I take a HTV from everyone, don't engage and vote however I decide and ignore the HTV.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on April 30, 2025, 01:28:42 am
My instant response is to dismiss this as pure emotive propaganda, and in response to your claim, it's got people up and about online. So yes, people will be swayed by this.
No, it isn't balanced reporting of events, no its isn't substantiated and who knows what was actually said and done given the behaviour isn't commented on but the reaction is.
I'm confused!
You have quoted two reports of incidents at pre-polling booths. The incident involving Julian Leeser was reported to the always impartial AEC who notified the police as required under their legislation.
Here's another article covering three incidents, two at pre-polling booths and one at a campaign rally:
In the first incident we have a MAGA supporter (WTF!) interfering with election advertising and being assaulted by a teenager who seems to have been a supporter of the PM. The teenager was charged and locked up. Then there's a person behaving aggressively towards Liberal volunteers who was also charged by police. Finally, a supporter of Independent Monique Ryan threw a punch at right wing protestors who were disrupting Ryan's campaign meeting.
That's pretty well the whole gamut of the political spectrum. It's reported on mainstream media, not social media. The police are involved in two incidents and the offenders have been charged. The reporting is balanced, factual, and certainly not emotive. The incidents are substantiated and there will be consequences ... and they won't make an iota of difference to the election outcomes in the electorates concerned or the overall result.
Strange as it may seem, not everything is a conspiracy, people of all persuasions can behave badly, police don't get involved without good reason, the media can provide accurate, impartial reports, and voting intentions are not swayed by bullying or reports of bullying.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on April 30, 2025, 01:45:25 am
Problems only become evident when media choose a side like News Ltd.
The bulk of the "professional reporting" is balanced, but not necessarily apolitical, bloggers should not be confused with reporters.
Social media is largely unaccountable for it's behaviour, and RedTrump along with his acolytes are a danger to global democracy.
What happened to 60 Minutes in the USA, and what The White House did to Bezos today, is a global tragedy, and it does impact our elections. Reporting facts should not get you persecuted by government.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on April 30, 2025, 07:34:14 am
My instant response is to dismiss this as pure emotive propaganda, and in response to your claim, it's got people up and about online. So yes, people will be swayed by this.
No, it isn't balanced reporting of events, no its isn't substantiated and who knows what was actually said and done given the behaviour isn't commented on but the reaction is.
I'm confused!
You have quoted two reports of incidents at pre-polling booths. The incident involving Julian Leeser was reported to the always impartial AEC who notified the police as required under their legislation.
Here's another article covering three incidents, two at pre-polling booths and one at a campaign rally:
In the first incident we have a MAGA supporter (WTF!) interfering with election advertising and being assaulted by a teenager who seems to have been a supporter of the PM. The teenager was charged and locked up. Then there's a person behaving aggressively towards Liberal volunteers who was also charged by police. Finally, a supporter of Independent Monique Ryan threw a punch at right wing protestors who were disrupting Ryan's campaign meeting.
That's pretty well the whole gamut of the political spectrum. It's reported on mainstream media, not social media. The police are involved in two incidents and the offenders have been charged. The reporting is balanced, factual, and certainly not emotive. The incidents are substantiated and there will be consequences ... and they won't make an iota of difference to the election outcomes in the electorates concerned or the overall result.
Strange as it may seem, not everything is a conspiracy, people of all persuasions can behave badly, police don't get involved without good reason, the media can provide accurate, impartial reports, and voting intentions are not swayed by bullying or reports of bullying.
the reports I'm quoting use alleged and encouraged by AEC to call the police and quoting of one side of the story.
Not by reputable journalists, but online news "writers". Effectively the police were called and the alleged perpetrator was gone and no charges pressed and then apparently people in tears. What happened though? Bullying is the article. Call the police if you feel threatened is standard IMHO.
The seven article and the post article that I and Paul have provided are the same incident at the same polling booth in the same electorate. Not sure about your confusion but this is where it all misses the mark as the articles I've referenced are refereed to in your sbs article.
Whatever other maga stuff you've read ive not heard of until you posted it, but watching the news last night there was mud slinging at Monique Ryan and ties to international interference in the election on her behalf by China.
Now I'm not sure why that is, that we get conflicting reports of events about her in particular but applying my theory, the TV news reported her china links whilst here you have SBS going into bat for her.
Reading your article my spider sense is straight to finding the problems with the article.
A 17 year old vandalising coreflute assaulting an old man. Guess what likely happened there. A knocked over sign and a confrontation and an unstable teen lashing out sounds about right. Teenager isn't voting age. So a vandal at a polling booth. Coreflute is likely those a frame signs they put out. Would vandalising include knocking it over?
Quote
Two people have been charged over incidents at pre-polling booths, including a teenager who seriously injured an elderly man during a tense stand-off in the prime minister's electorate.
The 17-year-old was due to face a children's court on Thursday after allegedly punching the 79-year-old at Ashfield, in Sydney's inner-west, on Wednesday afternoon.
The teenager allegedly punched a 79-year-old man in the face outside a pre-polling centre in the suburb, which falls within Anthony Albanese's electorate of Grayndler.
Is a pre polling centre the same as a early voting center? When did this event occur? It says Wednesday and due to go to children's court on Thursday... you get charged and to children's court in 24 hours? Meh its Wednesday today. Guess when this happened and it wasn't in the time line insinuated, and I'd argue that it likely isn't politically motivated but here we are today on wednesday discussing it.
This is how propaganda is born.
It's all plausible enough till you start thinking it through. The teenager might be up for charges seperate to this incident where he was vandalising and the punch to the 79 year old may have occurred at the same premises before early voting started (or it could have been last week) but the polls only really opened for early voting on the 22nd of April.
Why are we getting the reports now?
Your confusion stems from information overload. Emotive articles about Julian's electorate with no real information but condemnation of behaviour. Thats what propaganda does. It obfuscates and makes you unsure of what happened so you have to drop it all and read the content and skip the alleged details.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on April 30, 2025, 10:48:01 am
OK Thry, I give up!
There wasn’t a 79 year old in a MAGA cap kicking over ALP signs. He wasn’t punched out by a 17 year old. The 17 year old isn’t in custody and he won’t be appearing in the Children’s Court tomorrow. The whole incident was made up by the media for nefarious purposes and, as a result, people are going to change their votes. The other incidents reported didn’t happen either 🙄
FYI, you vote early at a pre-polling station and children are processed through the Children’s Court without delay.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on April 30, 2025, 02:15:39 pm
Long serving psephologist and the Australian Broadcasting Corporation's chief election analyst, Antony Green, will be pulling the pin after this election. Election night won’t be the same without him … but it’s all probably just social media propaganda intended to influence our voting 🤣
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on April 30, 2025, 02:57:10 pm
@DJC its not about giving up, its about seeing all this crap for what it is.
That is, its designed to ellicit a response. In this day and age, with no footage, and some flaky online articles, not susbstantiated on TV is all you need to consider.
IF you want me to believe it all, I will, but it matters nought what I believe. The MAGA hat is perhaps the single most useless bit of information out of all this stuff.
Make America Great Again has nothing to do with us, and is as tenuous a link to what happens if you vote red (or in our case blue) as it gets.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on April 30, 2025, 03:08:05 pm
Long serving psephologist and the Australian Broadcasting Corporation's chief election analyst, Antony Green, will be pulling the pin after this election. Election night won’t be the same without him … but it’s all probably just social media propaganda intended to influence our voting 🤣
You're not watching SKY news ? :D
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on April 30, 2025, 03:20:38 pm
Elections are emotional things. :D They're a bit like a football game. ;) You go for the side you follow. :)) We look at exactly the same piece of play and see it completely differently. We give extra weight to our good player's performance, and at the same time we don't see a lot of merit in the oppositions stars...they're either mostly thugs or cheats (especially some teams...like down at Geelong). ::) ::) Like football, the best assessment may come from the independent guy in the crowd, but even he has his own biases. ;) He may start the match supporting one team, and end up hoping the other side wins.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on April 30, 2025, 05:30:55 pm
Elections are emotional things. :D They're a bit like a football game. ;) You go for the side you follow. :)) We look at exactly the same piece of play and see it completely differently. We give extra weight to our good player's performance, and at the same time we don't see a lot of merit in the oppositions stars...they're either mostly thugs or cheats (especially some teams...like down at Geelong). ::) ::) Like football, the best assessment may come from the independent guy in the crowd, but even he has his own biases. ;) He may start the match supporting one team, and end up hoping the other side wins.
Footy is for fun and is Mickey Mouse. Elections are fair dinkum and determine our future and what the next 3 to 4 years will look like. Sadly though, football teams and competitions are run far better than this state and the country. Fark Trump, Putin, Zelensky and all those other DHs, our joint is stuffed and I've had a gut full of the incompetence and lack of options.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on April 30, 2025, 06:25:23 pm
@DJC its not about giving up, its about seeing all this crap for what it is.
That is, its designed to ellicit a response. In this day and age, with no footage, and some flaky online articles, not susbstantiated on TV is all you need to consider.
IF you want me to believe it all, I will, but it matters nought what I believe. The MAGA hat is perhaps the single most useless bit of information out of all this stuff.
Make America Great Again has nothing to do with us, and is as tenuous a link to what happens if you vote red (or in our case blue) as it gets.
You can choose to ignore what’s before your eyes or put any spin on factual reporting if that suits your agenda.
It is a fact that a 79 year old man wearing a MAGA hat was punched out by a 17 year old boy after the older fellow knocked over ALP signs at a pre-polling station. It is also a fact that the 79 year old was hospitalised and the 17 year old is in custody and will appear in the Children’s Court.
A friend of mine has a MAGA and wears it when he wants to take the p1ss. The 79 year old may have been taking the p1ss too but the fact that he was kicking ALP signs over suggests otherwise.
It’s interesting that you’re focusing on the MAGA hat. I would have thought that the actions of the 17 year old are more significant.
Similarly, the actions of the Monique Ryan supporter who threw a punch at the right wing protesters are more significant than the protests.
But, yes, it’s all propaganda cooked up by a bunch of conspirators from most of the political parties, independents, so-called eye witnesses, police, the AEC, hospital staff, and the media, both mainstream and social media influencers and podcasters.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 01, 2025, 12:02:03 am
@DJC its not about giving up, its about seeing all this crap for what it is.
That is, its designed to ellicit a response. In this day and age, with no footage, and some flaky online articles, not susbstantiated on TV is all you need to consider.
IF you want me to believe it all, I will, but it matters nought what I believe. The MAGA hat is perhaps the single most useless bit of information out of all this stuff.
Make America Great Again has nothing to do with us, and is as tenuous a link to what happens if you vote red (or in our case blue) as it gets.
You can choose to ignore what’s before your eyes or put any spin on factual reporting if that suits your agenda.
It is a fact that a 79 year old man wearing a MAGA hat was punched out by a 17 year old boy after the older fellow knocked over ALP signs at a pre-polling station. It is also a fact that the 79 year old was hospitalised and the 17 year old is in custody and will appear in the Children’s Court.
A friend of mine has a MAGA and wears it when he wants to take the p1ss. The 79 year old may have been taking the p1ss too but the fact that he was kicking ALP signs over suggests otherwise.
It’s interesting that you’re focusing on the MAGA hat. I would have thought that the actions of the 17 year old are more significant.
Similarly, the actions of the Monique Ryan supporter who threw a punch at the right wing protesters are more significant than the protests.
But, yes, it’s all propaganda cooked up by a bunch of conspirators from most of the political parties, independents, so-called eye witnesses, police, the AEC, hospital staff, and the media, both mainstream and social media influencers and podcasters.
sorry I misread the article. I thought the kid was the one damaging coreflute and wearing the maga hat based on dodgy reading.
Not really sure what to make of it. What's the 17 year old worrying about punching an old man for?
My own focus was largely on the other incident Paul was talking about but this is where this stuff becomes flaky for mine.
As for the kid being in custody and an expedited hearing my care factor is low.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 01, 2025, 11:23:29 am
The latest election shenanigans:
Neo-nazis wearing crude Hasidic Jew costumes turned up at pre-polling station in Kew and handed out pamphlets with a manipulated Liberal Party logo and anti-Semitic messages. The pamphlets were also widely distributed to homes across Caulfield. Election billboards for both Labor and Liberal candidates were defaced with red Stars of David. The pamphlets are authorised by Joel Davis, a prominent neo-nazi who incited violence against Jewish people from the steps of Victoria’s Parliament House and who is out on bail in South Australia for displaying a Nazi symbol.
While it is unlikely that the pamphlets and pre-polling station antics will have any bearing on the election, State Liberal MP David Southwick is spot on with his statement; “Let me be crystal clear: this is not politics. This is hate. And it has no place in our community.”
In other news, on Tuesday, witnesses reported a man in a Collingwood jumper lobbing an estimated half-dozen eggs at the One Nation candidate and his supporters as they handed out how-to-vote cards at the Wills pre-polling station in Brunswick. Sitting Labor member for Wills, Peter Khalil, has had his posters defaced with "Zio Dog", "Fully Cooked" and other slogans. Activists are unhappy with Khalil for what they say is his lack of action on climate change and the conflict in Gaza. Khalil could lose his seat to the Greens and, in this case, the vandalism and pre-polling station tensions could impact the outcome.
Finally, activists have gone to a lot of trouble to vandalise a Clive Palmer billboard in Brunswick. It now reads "Vote 0 Rump Riot”, with cartoon buttocks pasted over Palmer’s face, and "nonsense solutions to reduce the living."
All of these incidents are corroborated by several sources and backed up by photographs and video.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 01, 2025, 12:47:43 pm
Neo-nazis wearing crude Hasidic Jew costumes turned up at pre-polling station in Kew and handed out pamphlets with a manipulated Liberal Party logo and anti-Semitic messages. The pamphlets were also widely distributed to homes across Caulfield. Election billboards for both Labor and Liberal candidates were defaced with red Stars of David. The pamphlets are authorised by Joel Davis, a prominent neo-nazi who incited violence against Jewish people from the steps of Victoria’s Parliament House and who is out on bail in South Australia for displaying a Nazi symbol.
While it is unlikely that the pamphlets and pre-polling station antics will have any bearing on the election, State Liberal MP David Southwick is spot on with his statement; “Let me be crystal clear: this is not politics. This is hate. And it has no place in our community.”
In other news, on Tuesday, witnesses reported a man in a Collingwood jumper lobbing an estimated half-dozen eggs at the One Nation candidate and his supporters as they handed out how-to-vote cards at the Wills pre-polling station in Brunswick. Sitting Labor member for Wills, Peter Khalil, has had his posters defaced with "Zio Dog", "Fully Cooked" and other slogans. Activists are unhappy with Khalil for what they say is his lack of action on climate change and the conflict in Gaza. Khalil could lose his seat to the Greens and, in this case, the vandalism and pre-polling station tensions could impact the outcome.
Finally, activists have gone to a lot of trouble to vandalise a Clive Palmer billboard in Brunswick. It now reads "Vote 0 Rump Riot”, with cartoon buttocks pasted over Palmer’s face, and "nonsense solutions to reduce the living."
All of these incidents are corroborated by several sources and backed up by photographs and video.
We are at the stage we need security at likely trouble spot polling booths. Had enough of these neo Nazi types and Gaza protesters too. We are way too soft on these clowns and I'd be finding a home for them at Port Philip. Had the misfortune to be in Stkilda the other night picking up a family member from a work function and it was like being in Frankfurt or Crackfurt as it's known with scary zombie like people smacked out on the footpaths and kids roaming streets. Victoria has become a wasteland for crime, gangs, extreme political groups and now even voting at polling booths is being affected. Had to put up with years of corruption with Andrews running the State and now Jacinta Allan has lost control of law and order. None of these politicians are worth voting for and we just have to sit back and watch the state and country descend into a mini America or Euro ghetto country.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 02, 2025, 02:37:53 am
Just to round things out, a cyclist kicked and punched a Strumpet of Patriarchy volunteer at a Pakenham pre-polling station. The cyclist's political affiliation, if any, isn't known but his comments indicate that he is opposed to Palmer's policies on migration and multiculturalism.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 02, 2025, 07:23:03 am
A couple of takeouts...
Stupid actions at pre-polling stations aren't the restricted to one side of the political spectrum. We will no doubt see more shenanigans tomorrow.
Elections are emotional times and the policies of parties based on divisiveness and in some cases 'hate' tend to trigger those on opposite sides. Even at the basic Liberal/Labor level of 'combat' emotions run high at election times.
Demonise the individual politicians on a personal level and you will often get some lunatic who will take that on board and react in a stupid way....luckily, so far this has been restricted to things like vandalising electoral offices or throwing the odd egg or two...but back in the day, during the 60s, Labor Leader Arthur Calwell had a shotgun fired at him. Luckily it was just superficial wounds to the face.
Minor parties can offer you the world...because they have no chance of forming government in their own right. Independents can be great advocates for their political barrow, and their electorate, but the major decisions affecting our lives are made by those with the power...and that's really a choice of two We may not be enamoured of that choice but it really boils down to a Labour or LNP government.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 02, 2025, 09:23:41 am
Well said Lods!
A minor correction; the student who attempted to assassinate Calwell used a sawn-off .22 rifle. He fired through the window of Calwell’s car, the bullet was deflected and Calwell was injured by shards of glass.
Apparently, the student was motivated more by a desire to emulate the spate of political assassinations that had occurred around the world. He chose Calwell because of his opposition to conscription and the Vietnam War.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 02, 2025, 10:32:48 am
We have seen some unsavoury incidents involving most, if not all, political persuasions during this campaign. However, the reality is that they are few and far between.
I have voted in every Commonwealth, State and Local Government election since 1971 in Labor, Liberal, Country Party and swinging electorates. I have never witnessed any shenanigans at polling stations. On the contrary, the party and independent volunteers have usually been relaxed and in good spirits. It’s not uncommon to see volunteers or candidates chatting lightheartedly with their opposite numbers.
The debates between Albo and Dutton may not have been inspiring or entertaining but they were notable for the respectful manner in which both participants handled themselves. In fact, while Albo and Dutton may have opposing political stances, they are mates.
We may complain about the quality of our politicians and our system of government, but we shouldn’t complain about the manner in which our system functions. It’s a bit like spectators at our footy matches; there will be banter but it’s generally good-natured and rarely escalates.
It would be a tragedy if footy crowds had to be segregated and it would be a disaster if our elections were marred by violence and hate.
For that reason, I hope that the courts come down hard on everyone from the cyclist who attacked the Palmer supporter to the 17 year old who punched the old fellow … and even harder on the neo-nazi scumbags.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 02, 2025, 01:08:36 pm
We have seen some unsavoury incidents involving most, if not all, political persuasions during this campaign. However, the reality is that they are few and far between.
I have voted in every Commonwealth, State and Local Government election since 1971 in Labor, Liberal, Country Party and swinging electorates. I have never witnessed any shenanigans at polling stations. On the contrary, the party and independent volunteers have usually been relaxed and in good spirits. It’s not uncommon to see volunteers or candidates chatting lightheartedly with their opposite numbers.
The debates between Albo and Dutton may not have been inspiring or entertaining but they were notable for the respectful manner in which both participants handled themselves. In fact, while Albo and Dutton may have opposing political stances, they are mates.
We may complain about the quality of our politicians and our system of government, but we shouldn’t complain about the manner in which our system functions. It’s a bit like spectators at our footy matches; there will be banter but it’s generally good-natured and rarely escalates.
It would be a tragedy if footy crowds had to be segregated and it would be a disaster if our elections were marred by violence and hate.
For that reason, I hope that the courts come down hard on everyone from the cyclist who attacked the Palmer supporter to the 17 year old who punched the old fellow … and even harder on the neo-nazi scumbags.
Truer words have never been spoken Ol' Boy.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: PaulP on May 03, 2025, 09:13:00 pm
I don't understand how these things work, but The Guardian are saying Labor has won, with about 30% of the vote counted. Also saying that Dutton has lost his seat.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 03, 2025, 09:23:34 pm
I don't understand how these things work, but The Guardian are saying Labor has won, with about 30% of the vote counted. Also saying that Dutton has lost his seat.
There was some talk that when the pre-polls drop they might change the results in some seats...but I think that's probably 'pie in the sky', wishful thinking. Libs and Dutton both gone
Pretty much as the football panned out today...the best team on the day won. Labor much more organised and disciplined...with a strong group of experienced performers. Liberals have a real dirth of talent at present. And a world of soul searching in front of them. Not the least, finding a leader that will be more palatable.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 03, 2025, 09:50:54 pm
The Liberals were smashed tonight and in poor economic times with a sitting Government failing to provide any solutions it doesnt get any worse and they are in danger of becoming irrelevant in Australian Politics and have gone backwards. The Campaign and leadership they ran with was horrendous, totally out of touch with women and young people and reliant on an ageing conservative population to boot them to victory. We have seen what has happened in Victoria with an insipid opposition and its a worry where the country is heading when you have such a poor Federal opposition to offer a decent alternative.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 03, 2025, 10:44:09 pm
The Liberals were smashed tonight and in poor economic times with a sitting Government failing to provide any solutions it doesnt get any worse and they are in danger of becoming irrelevant in Australian Politics and have gone backwards. The Campaign and leadership they ran with was horrendous, totally out of touch with women and young people and reliant on an ageing conservative population to boot them to victory. We have seen what has happened in Victoria with an insipid opposition and its a worry where the country is heading when you have such a poor Federal opposition to offer a decent alternative.
It's difficult to see a path back in the near future, but over the years we've often seen in the days after elections the losing party is written off. It's happened to both major parties at different stages. Yet they always seem to recover after a time. The trick for the Liberals not so much to pull back some of the One Nations and Trumpets. Those votes usually come back via preferences anyway. It's the middle ground they need to target and a lot of that will be dependent on how well Labor looks after those folks in the next few years.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 03, 2025, 11:41:49 pm
Whatever you may think of Peter Dutton, his concession speech tonight was outstanding, particularly his acknowledgment of Ali French’s victory in Dickson.
We may not have the best version of democracy but I can’t think of one that is better than ours.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Micky0 on May 04, 2025, 03:56:16 pm
Whatever you may think of Peter Dutton, his concession speech tonight was outstanding, particularly his acknowledgment of Ali French’s victory in Dickson.
We may not have the best version of democracy but I can’t think of one that is better than ours.
100%. Cannot stand the bloke generally or the Liberals but his speech and that of a guy Woolahan that lost his seat near my area, were both humble, respectful and thoughtful.
Libs need to stop with the culture war bullcrap and get back to their roots - a democracy needs strong opposition to get the best outcomes for all.
Absolutely thrilled Albo won, see him as a very decent honest guy who is extremely humbled by being PM.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 04, 2025, 04:14:53 pm
Whatever you may think of Peter Dutton, his concession speech tonight was outstanding, particularly his acknowledgment of Ali French’s victory in Dickson.
We may not have the best version of democracy but I can’t think of one that is better than ours.
100%. Cannot stand the bloke generally or the Liberals but his speech and that of a guy Woolahan that lost his seat near my area, were both humble, respectful and thoughtful.
Libs need to stop with the culture war bullcrap and get back to their roots - a democracy needs strong opposition to get the best outcomes for all.
Absolutely thrilled Albo won, see him as a very decent honest guy who is extremely humbled by being PM.
Keith Wolahan is/was my local member and has been reasonable in dealing with the local public in the area and at least made himself available more than most politicians and would have been leadership material down the track. Having a poor opposition doesnt make for a good government imo as I have said before and Im of the view not much will change in Australia and its going to be a struggle for a lot of people who are doing it tough now and will do in the future. At least now we will all be spared those terrible Trumpet of Patriots ads and it was pleasing to see those clowns getting a low vote and maybe Clive Palmer can give politics away and stick to being a conniving greedy billionaire.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 04, 2025, 05:44:42 pm
Palmer's go this time was a cynical attempt to ride the coat tails of Donald Trump like policies. Presenting yourself as 'Trump like'turned out to be a pretty dumb strategy after the Donald's first hundred days proved so chaotic. Once again Clive has wasted a heap of money and a lot of people's time. You would think he'd learn his lesson....but just like the Terminator, "he'll be back". ::) ::) Trump this time...it will be interesting to see 'who he comes as' next time.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 04, 2025, 07:31:36 pm
Don’t be too quick to dismiss Clive Palmer’s election efforts as a failure. He got his message to millions of Australians and some of them are gullible enough to take his garbage on board. Sowing the seeds of division and doubt in our institutions is a long term project for Palmer.
Harry Fong, the bloke behind the spam SMSs, has blocked my mobile so I couldn’t send him commiserations on his failed Senate bid 🤣
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Micky0 on May 04, 2025, 07:34:25 pm
Wish that guy would sink his Millions into doing some good.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 04, 2025, 07:50:28 pm
Don’t be too quick to dismiss Clive Palmer’s election efforts as a failure. He got his message to millions of Australians and some of them are gullible enough to take his garbage on board. Sowing the seeds of division and doubt in our institutions is a long term project for Palmer.
Harry Fong, the bloke behind the spam SMSs, has blocked my mobile so I couldn’t send him commiserations on his failed Senate bid 🤣
He did it last election and it's ended up pretty much the same for him. A lot of money wasted for little result in terms of influence. Folks that take his messages on board would mostly already think (or lean) that way in their beliefs about society's and their personal problems anyway. In fact there are probably many who would agree with the things that Palmer and the Trumpet party put forward as ideas yet wouldn't waste a vote on him.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 04, 2025, 07:58:28 pm
Whatever you may think of Peter Dutton, his concession speech tonight was outstanding, particularly his acknowledgment of Ali French’s victory in Dickson.
We may not have the best version of democracy but I can’t think of one that is better than ours.
One must ask, where was "that" Dutton personality during the campaign?
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 04, 2025, 08:06:18 pm
What campaign?
I'm the first person to ignore politics but all I can say is that our campaigns if they cost money are a waste of money.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 04, 2025, 08:08:59 pm
Whatever you may think of Peter Dutton, his concession speech tonight was outstanding, particularly his acknowledgment of Ali French’s victory in Dickson.
We may not have the best version of democracy but I can’t think of one that is better than ours.
100%. Cannot stand the bloke generally or the Liberals but his speech and that of a guy Woolahan that lost his seat near my area, were both humble, respectful and thoughtful.
Libs need to stop with the culture war bullcrap and get back to their roots - a democracy needs strong opposition to get the best outcomes for all.
Absolutely thrilled Albo won, see him as a very decent honest guy who is extremely humbled by being PM.
Albo may well be a decent honest guy, but he has presided during a period that has caused much pain and angst for many Australians. It's ironic that there wasn't an opposition to truly "keep the bastards honest". I think we are in for another 3-4 years (min) of pain. As for Victoria, I dont know that the place could get any worse and Jacinta Allan will win the next State election for the same reasons Albo just won the federal election.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: dodge on May 04, 2025, 09:57:33 pm
There wasn't a genuine alternative to vote for. Two policies for 12 month cost relief - petrol & $1200 tax rebate. Didn't have a coherent plan for nuclear power. Housing plan - deduction for some interest for first home buyers, but not sure how they are going to be able to afford a mortgage in the first place. No cohesion (wfh?, 41k gov jobs to go). They are now finger pointing at everything except themselves.
The LNP problem now will be selecting a new leadership. Talent pool is very low with most senior options having big question marks. Wolahan did speak very well - he'll be a loss.
Tough road ahead for LNP. I suppose we'll see for the country!
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: northernblue on May 04, 2025, 11:23:08 pm
What do you mean Dutton didn’t have a coherent plan for nuclear ?
He said he could build them quicker than the countries with experience building them and cheaper… ! Dutton was obviously the man for the job ! 🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 07, 2025, 08:09:22 am
The swing against the Greens and Teals in Victoria in particular is interesting.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 07, 2025, 08:17:15 am
The swing against the Greens and Teals in Victoria in particular is interesting.
I think Voters especially in Victoria were more interested in economic policy than anything else and the Greens and Teals offer nothing in that area to middle Australia.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Baggers on May 07, 2025, 08:52:47 am
The swing against the Greens and Teals in Victoria in particular is interesting.
Yep. It seems that there was indeed a swing away from extremes (far Left, far Right), at the election. Just plucking a figure out of thin air here, but it would seem that about 80-90% of voters are rusted on Labor, LNP and a few minority parties ...Hanson and handful of very active in their local communities, Independents.
But the LNP seems to have certainly lost their way. The Labor party seems to be somewhat Centre Left, they've taken the 'moderate' ground from the LNP. How many LNP leaders have now lost their own seat... wow, if you don't take notice of that, you're doomed to repeat it, and they did.
My imaginary 10-20% of swinging voters are just not buying what the LNP and Greens, in particular, are selling. Personally, I can see what the Greens are selling but I've no idea what the LNP values are, what they actually stand for.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 07, 2025, 09:24:56 am
My imaginary 10-20% of swinging voters are just not buying what the LNP and Greens, in particular, are selling. Personally, I can see what the Greens are selling but I've no idea what the LNP values are, what they actually stand for.
I don't think they know either. One thing is sure and certain they cant swing more to the right. They have to develop policies that appeal to that middle ground yet are different enough from Labor that they offer a genuine choice. That won't be an easy task, especially given the lacklustre candidates for leadership positions.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 07, 2025, 09:26:47 am
They are the same crap in a different suit IMHO.
Interesting the distribution of voters here sort of mimick the outcomes. 23 people only.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: northernblue on May 07, 2025, 10:33:49 am
I voted against the politics of hate and division… and not trusting Dutton to deliver nuclear on time and budget.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 07, 2025, 11:11:00 am
Law and order, culture wars, wokeness and nuclear power didn’t provide any traction for the conservatives.
The Greens were smashed mainly because of their opposition to the housing package. The holier than thou attitudes of their spokespersons didn’t help.
The Teals did OK. I think there will be one more independent this time.
The far right parties went close to matching Legalise Cannabis in their lack of appeal to voters 🙂
While the Senate count has a way to go, it’s apparent that Labor only has to negotiate with the Libs or the Greens to get legislation through. The Independents, One Nation, PUP and Jacqui Lambie (if she gets back) will be irrelevant. That will make it much easier for Labor to pursue its legislative agenda … and more difficult to blame the opposition for lack of progress.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 07, 2025, 01:38:41 pm
The swing against the Greens and Teals in Victoria in particular is interesting.
I think Voters especially in Victoria were more interested in economic policy than anything else and the Greens and Teals offer nothing in that area to middle Australia.
Well I hope they aren't expecting sound economic policy from Labour.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: PaulP on May 07, 2025, 08:13:57 pm
Well I hope they aren't expecting sound economic policy from Labor.
According to my reading over the last hour so, the data seems to suggest mixed results, and where a trend does exist, it suggests that Labor are better economic managers.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 07, 2025, 09:07:50 pm
Well I hope they aren't expecting sound economic policy from Labor.
According to my reading over the last hour so, the data seems to suggest mixed results, and where a trend does exist, it suggests that Labor are better economic managers.
Yes Paul, the idea that Labor governments are poor at managing the economy is a Coalition election slogan that isn’t supported by the facts.
There are many external, uncontrollable factors that affect our economy and governments of both persuasions are limited in their ability to achieve the economic outcomes that the ordinary punter is after. With that qualification, Labor has generally done better and Jim Chalmers is a far more effective and proactive treasurer than Josh Frydenburg was.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 07, 2025, 09:09:17 pm
I think Voters especially in Victoria were more interested in economic policy than anything else and the Greens and Teals offer nothing in that area to middle Australia.
Well I hope they aren't expecting sound economic policy from Labour.
Albo promised more freebies and played popularist economic politics better than Dutton..
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 07, 2025, 09:16:44 pm
Well I hope they aren't expecting sound economic policy from Labor.
According to my reading over the last hour so, the data seems to suggest mixed results, and where a trend does exist, it suggests that Labor are better economic managers.
Victoria is virtually bankrupt thanks to Labour.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: PaulP on May 07, 2025, 09:25:30 pm
According to my reading over the last hour so, the data seems to suggest mixed results, and where a trend does exist, it suggests that Labor are better economic managers.
Victoria is virtually bankrupt thanks to Labour.
Virtually bankrupt isn’t the same as actually bankrupt … and don’t forget that it was the Morrison Government that encouraged Victoria to embark on its capital works program. That program will have long lasting benefits for Victorians for many years to come and it’s an indictment on previous governments that have lacked the foresight and will to build for the future.
“Virtually bankrupt” is a stretch too and Victoria’s finances are in a much better state than the opposition and the Murdoch press would have you believe.
The Australian Institute, under the headline, “Sorry media, neither Victoria’s budget nor its economy is in bad shape” makes the following points:
“The media like to point to Victoria’s debt and deficit but they do so by including government fixed capital investment in the deficit. This might seem to the layperson as perfectly reasonable, but it is not how accounting works in the private sector and it presents a distorted picture of the state of the budget.
Including capital investment in a similar manner would, for example, see BHP’s 2024 profit drop from its declared US$20.7 billion to a marginal US$0.2 billion. Many other profitable companies would be in deficit were their budgets measured in the same way that now has the media suggesting the Victorian state finances are in deep trouble.”
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 07, 2025, 10:18:47 pm
It's impossible to know which party/government is more responsible.
Scomo may very well have sown the seeds that allowed labour to bring us back to surplus.
Likewise, the country thrived under Howard's government, but how much of his progress was to do with hawke and Keating?
Kennet has been one of the best premier's our state has had, but did backs do a bad job?
Rudd and Gillard made a few blues but they were ok.
Ultimately I reckon they both are capable enough.
They all are capable of stupid stuff like east west link and paying a lit of money for nothing.
Value for money is where i think Labor stuff up the most. I dont know if the Liberals do too much better with the public purse, but they do tend to gear towards efficient use of money.
This is where the wasteful component of government spending gets missed. I think too much of either is ultimately where things go bad, and I think I'd prefer the state swing liberal with a Labor federal government.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 07, 2025, 10:24:30 pm
The dodgy accounting the media and opposition use about Victoria, is the same dodgy accounting the media use about energy(nuclear, hydrogen), crime, military(subs), etc, etc.
Call it all out not just when it suits.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 07, 2025, 11:23:39 pm
Virtually bankrupt isn’t the same as actually bankrupt … and don’t forget that it was the Morrison Government that encouraged Victoria to embark on its capital works program. That program will have long lasting benefits for Victorians for many years to come and it’s an indictment on previous governments that have lacked the foresight and will to build for the future.
“Virtually bankrupt” is a stretch too and Victoria’s finances are in a much better state than the opposition and the Murdoch press would have you believe.
The Australian Institute, under the headline, “Sorry media, neither Victoria’s budget nor its economy is in bad shape” makes the following points:
“The media like to point to Victoria’s debt and deficit but they do so by including government fixed capital investment in the deficit. This might seem to the layperson as perfectly reasonable, but it is not how accounting works in the private sector and it presents a distorted picture of the state of the budget.
Including capital investment in a similar manner would, for example, see BHP’s 2024 profit drop from its declared US$20.7 billion to a marginal US$0.2 billion. Many other profitable companies would be in deficit were their budgets measured in the same way that now has the media suggesting the Victorian state finances are in deep trouble.”
Victoria's credit rating has dropped meaning higher rates for any future borrowings and the net debt will continue to increase. Victoria is now the fourth most indebted state government from advanced economies outside the US in absolute dollar terms, you can dress the accounting up anyway you like but the only measure that matters is debt as a proportion of government operating revenues. By 2027, Standard and Poors estimates Victoria’s debt will have climbed to a scary 214 per cent of operating revenues. Not that other States are travelling great either with only WA doing ok and Australia is only seen as reasonable as European Sovereign countries are doing worse than our States and countries like Canada are even worse although they are all still trotting out CoVid as the excuse. I cant see any way out for Victoria and even NSW unless the Federal Government foot the ballooning very large infrastructure projects bill and take over more of the States operating costs. In some other countries like the UK and France the Central Government pays up to 80% of the budget to run the country unlike Australia where the States have to chip in a lot more but get the opportunity to set their own taxes, borrow from who they like etc, maybe that system has to change.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 07, 2025, 11:30:56 pm
Victoria's credit rating has dropped meaning higher rates for any future borrowings and the net debt will continue to increase. Victoria is now the fourth-most-indebted state government from advanced economies outside the US in absolute dollar terms, you can dress the accounting up anyway you like but the only measure that matters is debt as a proportion of government operating revenues. By 2027, Standard and Poors estimates Victoria’s debt will have climbed to a scary 214 per cent of operating revenues. Not that other States are travelling great either with only WA doing ok and Australia is only seen as reasonable as European Sovereign countries are doing worse than our States and countries like Canada are even worse although they are all still trotting out CoVid as the excuse. I cant see any way out for Victoria and even NSW unless the Federal Government foot the ballooning very large infrastructure projects bill and take over more of the States operating costs. In some other countries like the UK and France the Central Government pays up to 80% of the budget to run the country unlike Australia where the States have to chip in a lot more but get the opportunity to set their own taxes, borrow from who they like etc, maybe that system has to change.
What the federal gov (fed police) have to assist with is get rid of the CFMEU influence on those big build projects. Then they need to take those projects off the state Govs hands as they are simply inept. Victoria is the cesspit of Australia on so many levels, we are a laughing stock.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 08, 2025, 01:51:16 am
Victoria's credit rating has dropped meaning higher rates for any future borrowings and the net debt will continue to increase. Victoria is now the fourth most indebted state government from advanced economies outside the US in absolute dollar terms, you can dress the accounting up anyway you like but the only measure that matters is debt as a proportion of government operating revenues. By 2027, Standard and Poors estimates Victoria’s debt will have climbed to a scary 214 per cent of operating revenues. Not that other States are travelling great either with only WA doing ok and Australia is only seen as reasonable as European Sovereign countries are doing worse than our States and countries like Canada are even worse although they are all still trotting out CoVid as the excuse. I cant see any way out for Victoria and even NSW unless the Federal Government foot the ballooning very large infrastructure projects bill and take over more of the States operating costs. In some other countries like the UK and France the Central Government pays up to 80% of the budget to run the country unlike Australia where the States have to chip in a lot more but get the opportunity to set their own taxes, borrow from who they like etc, maybe that system has to change.
Since the pandemic, Victoria's credit rating was downgraded from AAA to AA, NSW and the ACT were downgraded from AAA to AA+ and WA has achieved its highest ever rating at AAA. The ACT, NSW and Tasmania have been put on negative watch, suggesting that S&P could further downgrade their ratings. Victoria is not on negative watch.
S&P says that the biggest drivers for ratings downgrades had been increased expenditure on infrastructure, due in part to booming population growth and the national energy transition. In other words, States and Territories either respond to population growth and energy demands or keep their credit ratings.
The bottom line is that we need taxation reform so that governments can fund the infrastructure and services that the population needs. Will Albo's decisive victory pave the way for tax reform?
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: kruddler on May 08, 2025, 03:59:17 am
Others do form an opinion....and it's usually one not based on facts and figures but propaganda.
Even taking into account some of what eb1 said, the Labor government's spending on rail removal and other vic wide road/rail projects might cost us plenty and put us into debt, but it's also something that will improve the quality of life for many around greater Melbourne and beyond.
You can't keep papering over cracks, eventually you need to bite the bullet and spend some money in fixing things and that is exactly what we've done under the Labor government. This household has definitely seen the benefits of this in terms of road and rail upgrades, finished and ongoing in multiple different areas. Generational changes.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: PaulP on May 08, 2025, 07:51:11 am
Others do form an opinion....and it's usually one not based on facts and figures but propaganda.
Even taking into account some of what eb1 said, the Labor government's spending on rail removal and other vic wide road/rail projects might cost us plenty and put us into debt, but it's also something that will improve the quality of life for many around greater Melbourne and beyond.
You can't keep papering over cracks, eventually you need to bite the bullet and spend some money in fixing things and that is exactly what we've done under the Labor government. This household has definitely seen the benefits of this in terms of road and rail upgrades, finished and ongoing in multiple different areas. Generational changes.
It's just a simple fact of life these days that pretty much all nations, states etc operate with some level of debt, which will clearly fluctuate over time. This is okay with me, on the fairly strict proviso that the debtor is able to service the debt, and that the expenditure benefits the people.
As a small aside, Australia is currently one of only 11 countries that has a AAA credit rating, a rating which has been stable over the last few years.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: madbluboy on May 08, 2025, 10:19:24 am
My son's colorectal clinic at the RCH just got shut down because we're broke. The spin doctors (not the real doctors) say it won't effect their care but my son was born before they established the clinic and it was a nightmare I wouldn't wish upon anyone.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 08, 2025, 10:35:03 am
My son's colorectal clinic at the RCH just got shut down because we're broke. The spin doctors (not the real doctors) say it won't effect their care but my son was born before they established the clinic and it was a nightmare I wouldn't wish upon anyone.
The State and Local Govs have no money. I was doing a little stint in local gov and got laid off because there are cutting costs and projects. The situation at that council is dire (and its not a small one).
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: PaulP on May 08, 2025, 11:40:32 am
My son's colorectal clinic at the RCH just got shut down because we're broke. The spin doctors (not the real doctors) say it won't effect their care but my son was born before they established the clinic and it was a nightmare I wouldn't wish upon anyone.
Sorry to hear that MBB. This sort of thing should not be happening in Australia, and it seems inconceivable that some combination of State / Fed / Labor / LNP cannot sort this out. I don't much care what a person's politics are, this is not on.
............................................................. The bottom line is that we need taxation reform so that governments can fund the infrastructure and services that the population needs. Will Albo's decisive victory pave the way for tax reform?
That's the reality IMO. Services that the citizenry demands / needs from the government cost money, and that money either comes from taxes, or from lending if the taxes are insufficient, or the services don't get provided. Of course, trying to get an increase in taxes is like expecting people to volunteer for a mild dose of the clap. This is undoubtedly a mindset / culture issue, as other overseas cultures with higher taxes seem to understand that brings benefits which outweigh the negatives.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 08, 2025, 01:21:53 pm
My son's colorectal clinic at the RCH just got shut down because we're broke. The spin doctors (not the real doctors) say it won't effect their care but my son was born before they established the clinic and it was a nightmare I wouldn't wish upon anyone.
Sorry to hear that MBB. This sort of thing should not be happening in Australia, and it seems inconceivable that some combination of State / Fed / Labor / LNP cannot sort this out. I don't much care what a person's politics are, this is not on.
The CPRS is closing after a $5.9 million 2019 federal grant came to an end.
The closure has triggered an outpouring of shock and protests from parents whose children use the service, and Ms West said it would rob parents, particularly in the regions, of vital support and guidance.
Im not saying anything about politics, but the way health services use and abuse finances.
You telling me that they can't fund this unit without a federal or state grant?
Times are tough, but the COVID credit card spending has an equal and opposite reaction somewhere.
Also, these articles are written to campaign on behalf of health services to make governments yield to granting them more money from the public purse. The big question is, do they need additional funding or do they need to have a look at what they are doing with the funds they get and potentially make better decisions surrounding it?
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: PaulP on May 08, 2025, 02:21:53 pm
..................................................The big question is, do they need additional funding or do they need to have a look at what they are doing with the funds they get and potentially make better decisions surrounding it?
It's not a question that me or anyone else here can answer. I wouldn't be taking a position one way or the other, giving the total absence of data.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 08, 2025, 03:10:03 pm
Greens leader Adam Bandt has finally conceded his seat to the ALP but not before giving the Liberals a clip for giving their preferences to the ALP, of course Mr Bandt won his seat previously on the back of LNP preferences but he failed to acknowledge that in his concession speech. Given the Greens will be the sole handbrake on the ALP in the upper house it will be interesting to see who they elect as leader and if they are up to the responsibility they have been given.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 08, 2025, 05:00:10 pm
Greens leader Adam Bandt has finally conceded his seat to the ALP but not before giving the Liberals a clip for giving their preferences to the ALP, of course Mr Bandt won his seat previously on the back of LNP preferences but he failed to acknowledge that in his concession speech. Given the Greens will be the sole handbrake on the ALP in the upper house it will be interesting to see who they elect as leader and if they are up the responsibility they have been given.
Bandt is a grub, they will elect another just like him.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 08, 2025, 07:30:23 pm
I'm sure all LNP supporters are a bit upset that Adam feels that party let him down. :))
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: PaulP on May 08, 2025, 07:41:16 pm
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 09, 2025, 10:24:27 am
It is disappointing that Wannon MP Dan Tehan has ruled himself out of the Liberal leadership contest. Apart from the fact that he is a Victorian, Tehan is a genuine, hard working, thoughtful person who isn't involved in the culture wars and is always respectful of others while vigorously pursuing genuine liberal ideals.
The Taylor-Price team seems likely to prevail and I don't think that's good news for anyone.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 09, 2025, 10:32:43 am
It is disappointing that Wannon MP Dan Tehan has ruled himself out of the Liberal leadership contest. Apart from the fact that he is a Victorian, Tehan is a genuine, hard working, thoughtful person who isn't involved in the culture wars and is always respectful of others while vigorously pursuing genuine liberal ideals.
The Taylor-Price team seems likely to prevail and I don't think that's good news for anyone.
I do fear this takes that party in the wrong direction, it seems to be pushing to further divide rather than unite, and it feels to me like Price is possibly introduced as a stooge to placate a segment of disaffected voters.
It will be interesting to see if this "partnership" survives.
If I recall correctly Taylor made his private fortune controlling water rights, in and supplying to regions in drought, I wonder what the people inland of Hume think of him?
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 09, 2025, 11:53:45 am
I'm not sure it really matters who they pick now. Whoever it is, gets the poisoned chalice. The party has so much work to do that any 'clever' aspirant would probably be smart to bide their time and let others take up the challenge.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 09, 2025, 12:07:23 pm
It is disappointing that Wannon MP Dan Tehan has ruled himself out of the Liberal leadership contest. Apart from the fact that he is a Victorian, Tehan is a genuine, hard working, thoughtful person who isn't involved in the culture wars and is always respectful of others while vigorously pursuing genuine liberal ideals.
The Taylor-Price team seems likely to prevail and I don't think that's good news for anyone.
What's wrong with Jacinta Price DJ? I don't know a heck of a lot about her but I thought she was excellent during the referendum.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 09, 2025, 12:35:26 pm
What's wrong with Jacinta Price DJ? I don't know a heck of a lot about her but I thought she was excellent during the referendum.
A lot G2C!
Defecting from the Nationals after they funded her election campaign is a pretty good indicator of her self-serving ambition and lack of character.
Matt Canavan has delivered a scathing assessment:
"I don't know how you can go to the people one week and say: 'I'm going to represent this party in the nation's Parliament' and then the very next week, turn around (and say): 'So I actually, I've changed my mind, I'm gonna go to a different side'. It's like changing teams on the football field after the whistle has blown.
It's not the sort of behaviour I think Australians appreciate."
Then there’s the MAGA hat, “Make Australia Great Gain, blaming the media for the election outcome, and heaps more.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 09, 2025, 12:50:40 pm
The defection is obviously to further her leadership ambition but is it a significant 'betrayal'
The Territory is a little different in that the Nationals and Liberals work under one party, the Country Liberal Party (CLP).
CLP members normally sit with the Nationals.
What it does highlight is some growing tension between the Libs and Nats.
And I think the move might back-fire on her. She might not find some of the Libs with their own ambitions quite so welcoming.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 09, 2025, 02:55:52 pm
It is disappointing that Wannon MP Dan Tehan has ruled himself out of the Liberal leadership contest. Apart from the fact that he is a Victorian, Tehan is a genuine, hard working, thoughtful person who isn't involved in the culture wars and is always respectful of others while vigorously pursuing genuine liberal ideals.
The Taylor-Price team seems likely to prevail and I don't think that's good news for anyone.
I dont mind Tehan either, probably the best of a bad lot, Taylor might have an economics degree but he cant explain or justify any monetary policy the Liberals put forward and was a boat anchor around Duttons neck who helped him lose the election and his seat. Albo can get ready for a third term if Taylor is leader....
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: northernblue on May 09, 2025, 09:12:42 pm
It is disappointing that Wannon MP Dan Tehan has ruled himself out of the Liberal leadership contest. Apart from the fact that he is a Victorian, Tehan is a genuine, hard working, thoughtful person who isn't involved in the culture wars and is always respectful of others while vigorously pursuing genuine liberal ideals.
The Taylor-Price team seems likely to prevail and I don't think that's good news for anyone.
What's wrong with Jacinta Price DJ? I don't know a heck of a lot about her but I thought she was excellent during the referendum.
My issue with her is that she is constantly fighting, family, political opponents (from any party…) she doesn’t build consensus with anyone. I expect politicians to work with and unite people, she divides.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 10, 2025, 12:59:43 am
What's wrong with Jacinta Price DJ? I don't know a heck of a lot about her but I thought she was excellent during the referendum.
My issue with her is that she is constantly fighting, family, political opponents (from any party…) she doesn’t build consensus with anyone. I expect politicians to work with and unite people, she divides.
And that’s essentially what cost the Coalition the election. Folk aren’t interested in the politics of hate and division.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 10, 2025, 08:14:39 am
My issue with her is that she is constantly fighting, family, political opponents (from any party…) she doesn’t build consensus with anyone. I expect politicians to work with and unite people, she divides.
And that’s essentially what cost the Coalition the election. Folk aren’t interested in the politics of hate and division.
During the referendum, isn't that exactly what Price was saying? That the Yes vote would further divide? Not trying to be a smart ass here, just trying to understand the negativity towards her because something about her apeals to me (as I said I dont know much other than what I saw last year). If the LNP want to contend again, they need to come up with a strategy that is a little smarter than poking crap at the opposition. Have a plan, focus on what youre going to do and be different at, be consistent in your messaging and have a leader that is young and with some charisma. Not overly cocky or aggressive, one who demonstrates genuine empathy, who cares for you, me and the country as a whole.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Baggers on May 10, 2025, 08:51:59 am
What's wrong with Jacinta Price DJ? I don't know a heck of a lot about her but I thought she was excellent during the referendum.
My issue with her is that she is constantly fighting, family, political opponents (from any party…) she doesn’t build consensus with anyone. I expect politicians to work with and unite people, she divides.
I've watched a few interviews with Jacinta and what has consistently come to mind is... angry. Like an articulate Pauline Hanson.
To Jacinta the only reason the LNP lost the election was because of all the lies the other side came out with. And that's the problem with such a high degree of chronic anger, self-reflection and objectivity become impossible: not qualities you want in a leader.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 10, 2025, 09:20:18 am
And that’s essentially what cost the Coalition the election. Folk aren’t interested in the politics of hate and division.
During the referendum, isn't that exactly what Price was saying? That the Yes vote would further divide? Not trying to be a smart ass here, just trying to understand the negativity towards her because something about her apeals to me (as I said I dont know much other than what I saw last year). If the LNP want to contend again, they need to come up with a strategy that is a little smarter than poking crap at the opposition. Have a plan, focus on what youre going to do and be different at, be consistent in your messaging and have a leader that is young and with some charisma. Not overly cocky or aggressive, one who demonstrates genuine empathy, who cares for you, me and the country as a whole.
I think what we see with all these debates is that people's perceptions of a message very much depends on the side of politics they support.
Price's message during the referendum was pretty much that it would be divisive. That the end result would be another point of difference between indigenous and non indigenous. And that rather than points of difference, as a society we should be looking to reduce that difference and concentrate on the major health and social issues to reduce any gap.
Supporters of the voice would see Price's message as divisive because they saw the voice as a desired method to improve the lot of indigenous people and her message opposed that, and had the effect of causing divison amongst indigenous people. That her message, rather than empowering indigenous people, maintained the status quo of governing bodies deciding what is best for them.
Bottom line, Price is a politician. She appears to be an ambitious one What she says is designed to attract support from those of similar political bent. As such she will have her detractors on the left and supporters on the right.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 10, 2025, 11:50:46 am
Agree somewhat lods, but the thing is, she isn't the one who is divisive in her opinion. Treating folk different is what causes division. An indigenous voice to parliament is one that seeks to create a separation between indigenous and non indigenous and like all of these things they bring benefits and derision. I remember seeing a form for abstudy vs austudy when applying at uni. Being intelligible for both due to household income, I didn't worry about it overly but it struck a chord. Why is it different? Why are they labelling it different? Is one more or less beneficial?
Historically division between races is what cemented bigotry. So it's only natural that an arm of indigenous people would simply view it as not being invited to the table unless you're hand picked and groomed for the role.
Realistically inclusion means equality and equality means eroding the differences, not equity of privilege amongst the elite. Its like men vs women. They don't want to eliminate the boys club, they want a girls club, and pretend all women would be in it, when the reality is we are talking about 3%ers.
The evey day human isn't represented by any of the aforementioned and thats precisely what an indigenous voice to parliament would do. Create a 3%er in indigenous communities.
First nations people paint a picture that they were one nation living in peace but I suspect there was plenty of fighting and division in their communities. Its human nature to fight over resources.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 10, 2025, 12:07:06 pm
I've watched a few interviews with Jacinta and what has consistently come to mind is... angry. Like an articulate Pauline Hanson.
To Jacinta the only reason the LNP lost the election was because of all the lies the other side came out with. And that's the problem with such a high degree of chronic anger, self-reflection and objectivity become impossible: not qualities you want in a leader.
See I dont see the angry bit, Thorpe is the very definition of angry.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: PaulP on May 10, 2025, 02:45:39 pm
I don't see how The Voice would create division. One of Price's claims against The Voice is that Indigenous people are not suffering any negative impacts from Colonisation. Extraordinary.
Lidia Thorpe at times undoubtedly acts like an uncouth yobbo, but I prefer her any day over Price. The latter represents a minority position in Indigenous affairs.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 10, 2025, 03:58:54 pm
I literally just explained it. Yoi don't agree that's different Paul.
Treating people differently both positive and negatively leads to resentment. Its one thing to acknowledge an indigenous person/people/culture as part of Australia, but giving them different rules is a call back to them not having the same rights as the rest of us. Its just with a different motivation.
It's just not FAIR. you don't cure injustice with more injustice. You just breed resentment.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 10, 2025, 04:03:26 pm
The last few posts are actually a good indicator of how we look at things differently depending on our own political, social views and life experiences. That's not to be critical of anyone. Our make-up is a very complex and personal thing. We may have our own idea of how society should work. And that can be very different because of our own situation For every advance we advocate there is sometimes a cost or counter argument that we don't consider. If everyone agreed there would be no reason for elections. At the heart of everything is a difference in circumstances. Society will only advance if the differences in circumstances are reduced.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: PaulP on May 10, 2025, 04:04:15 pm
I literally just explained it. Yoi don't agree that's different Paul.
Treating people differently both positive and negatively leads to resentment. Its one thing to acknowledge an indigenous person/people/culture as part of Australia, but giving them different rules is a call back to them not having the same rights as the rest of us. Its just with a different motivation.
It's just not FAIR. you don't cure injustice with more injustice. You just breed resentment.
I would not be resentful if The Voice went through, I would not be resentful if we ever get a treaty, and I would not be resentful if reparations were paid out, which IMO are thoroughly warranted. I can very easily see how First Nations people are unique in our history.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 10, 2025, 04:14:05 pm
I literally just explained it. Yoi don't agree that's different Paul.
Treating people differently both positive and negatively leads to resentment. Its one thing to acknowledge an indigenous person/people/culture as part of Australia, but giving them different rules is a call back to them not having the same rights as the rest of us. Its just with a different motivation.
It's just not FAIR. you don't cure injustice with more injustice. You just breed resentment.
I would not be resentful if The Voice went through, I would not be resentful if we ever get a treaty, and I would not be resentful if reparations were paid out, which IMO are thoroughly warranted. I can very easily see how First Nations people are unique in our history.
You wouldn't Paul. That's your view. But a lot of people would argue that the money involved in all those things would be better spent in direct health and welfare services. It's not a better option...just a different one.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: PaulP on May 10, 2025, 04:19:25 pm
You wouldn't Paul. That's your view. But a lot of people would argue that the money involved in all those things would be better spent in direct health and welfare services. It's not a better option...just a different one.
I get that. I dare say spending money on the things above would not preclude spending on health and welfare.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Baggers on May 10, 2025, 05:29:59 pm
I've watched a few interviews with Jacinta and what has consistently come to mind is... angry. Like an articulate Pauline Hanson.
To Jacinta the only reason the LNP lost the election was because of all the lies the other side came out with. And that's the problem with such a high degree of chronic anger, self-reflection and objectivity become impossible: not qualities you want in a leader.
See I dont see the angry bit, Thorpe is the very definition of angry.
Thorpe's anger is right there on the surface for all to see - not talking about right/wrong or whether her anger (rage) is justified or not. Whereas Jacinta's anger seems way more gritted between the teeth; passive/aggressive type. She's too smart and savvy to 'lose it' publicly. When, from what I have observed, Jacinta is confronted with reasonable questioning she descends into sweeping generalizations and ignoring/stonewalling the question.
I simply see red flags when any leader angrily (either overtly or covertly) denies and redirects. Trump is a master at this tactic.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: laj on May 11, 2025, 08:58:34 pm
It is disappointing that Wannon MP Dan Tehan has ruled himself out of the Liberal leadership contest. Apart from the fact that he is a Victorian, Tehan is a genuine, hard working, thoughtful person who isn't involved in the culture wars and is always respectful of others while vigorously pursuing genuine liberal ideals.
The Taylor-Price team seems likely to prevail and I don't think that's good news for anyone.
What's wrong with Jacinta Price DJ? I don't know a heck of a lot about her but I thought she was excellent during the referendum.
Terrible during the election campaign. Too much pumping of Trump policies, wearing MAGA hats, then stating "Make Australia Great Again". Trump in any form, should of been the very last thing she should have been promoting. Then the train wreck interview on election night blaming the media, whinging, looking and not putting the blame where she should of. Given the election results, going further to the right with Taylor and Price is the last thing they need. Chalmers outclassed Taylor during the term. Ley is a nuffie but a better pick right now. Even so, Labor treated her as nothing as deputy leader. Not seriously at all. No talent at all in the Liberal in the Lower House. It's a free ride for Labor. Any talent is in the Senate. Some shockers there but 2 or 3 very talented ones too.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Baggers on May 12, 2025, 10:08:52 am
What's wrong with Jacinta Price DJ? I don't know a heck of a lot about her but I thought she was excellent during the referendum.
Terrible during the election campaign. Too much pumping of Trump policies, wearing MAGA hats, then stating "Make Australia Great Again". Trump in any form, should of been the very last thing she should have been promoting. Then the train wreck interview on election night blaming the media, whinging, looking and not putting the blame where she should of. Given the election results, going further to the right with Taylor and Price is the last thing they need. Chalmers outclassed Taylor during the term. Ley is a nuffie but a better pick right now. Even so, Labor treated her as nothing as deputy leader. Not seriously at all. No talent at all in the Liberal in the Lower House. It's a free ride for Labor. Any talent is in the Senate. Some shockers there but 2 or 3 very talented ones too.
Some in the LNP said they have to do a better job of selling their values. What values? Stuffed if I know what they stand for... I know what they don't like, really clearly.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 12, 2025, 10:58:13 am
Terrible during the election campaign. Too much pumping of Trump policies, wearing MAGA hats, then stating "Make Australia Great Again". Trump in any form, should of been the very last thing she should have been promoting. Then the train wreck interview on election night blaming the media, whinging, looking and not putting the blame where she should of. Given the election results, going further to the right with Taylor and Price is the last thing they need. Chalmers outclassed Taylor during the term. Ley is a nuffie but a better pick right now. Even so, Labor treated her as nothing as deputy leader. Not seriously at all. No talent at all in the Liberal in the Lower House. It's a free ride for Labor. Any talent is in the Senate. Some shockers there but 2 or 3 very talented ones too.
Some in the LNP said they have to do a better job of selling their values. What values? Stuffed if I know what they stand for... I know what they don't like, really clearly.
They're in a mess. John Howard's 'broad church' looks more like the local chapter of the Southern Baptists. Deciding what their values are has an easy direction...and it's not to the right. Policies need to be developed that appeal and provide general benefits to central and middle Australia, because rightly or wrongly, that's where the elections are won or lost.
But unless things go dramatically wrong for Labor, this won't be a short term process for the Libs. It will take years of discussion, argument and possibly infighting. It's doubtful the person elected leader tomorrow will be the next Liberal Prime Minister. Have a shilling on Labor for the next election now... while the odds are pretty good.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Baggers on May 12, 2025, 11:53:34 am
Some in the LNP said they have to do a better job of selling their values. What values? Stuffed if I know what they stand for... I know what they don't like, really clearly.
They're in a mess. John Howard's 'broad church' looks more like the local chapter of the Southern Baptists. Deciding what their values are has an easy direction...and it's not to the right. Policies need to be developed that appeal and provide general benefits to central and middle Australia, because rightly or wrongly, that's where the elections are won or lost.
But unless things go dramatically wrong for Labor, this won't be a short term process for the Libs. It will take years of discussion, argument and possibly infighting. It's doubtful the person elected leader tomorrow will be the next Liberal Prime Minister. Have a shilling on Labor for the next election now... while the odds are pretty good.
Absolutely. Seems the LNP decided to go hard Right and abandon moderate conservatives, which the Teals and Labor duly grabbed. Their present incarnation is about as far as you can get from what Menzies envisioned. Should be a fascinating battle between the two distinct LNP factions: hard Right head kickers and moderate conservatives.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 12, 2025, 11:54:16 am
Libs should go with Ley now that Tehan has decided to sit this one out, the former is probably the neutral choice that wont provide anything spectacular to lift the Libs to victory next election but wont be a deterrent to their chances like Dutton was and Taylor will be. Ley might have some appeal to Female voters where the Libs have been so out of touch with in recent times so that may also be a positive. I think Chalmers is a bit of a weak link for the ALP and doesnt have much of a clue about economics but the Libs with a goose like Angus Taylor as opposition Treasurer couldnt exploit him so one of their main tasks is to select the right candidate to be opposition Treasurer imo and this will help whoever takes over the leadership.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Baggers on May 12, 2025, 12:10:07 pm
Libs should go with Ley now that Tehan has decided to sit this one out, the former is probably the neutral choice that wont provide anything spectacular to lift the Libs to victory next election but wont be a deterrent to their chances like Dutton was and Taylor will be. Ley might have some appeal to Female voters where the Libs have been so out of touch with in recent times so that may also be a positive. I think Chalmers is a bit of a weak link for the ALP and doesnt have much of a clue about economics but the Libs with a goose like Angus Taylor as opposition Treasurer couldnt exploit him so one of their main tasks is to select the right candidate to be opposition Treasurer imo and this will help whoever takes over the leadership.
Totally agree, EB1. Ley would be the ideal transition leader; transitioning to a more moderate position and at least winning back the Teal voters and creating a party more attractive to small L conservatives and any subsequent talent.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 13, 2025, 03:40:38 pm
Libs should go with Ley now that Tehan has decided to sit this one out, the former is probably the neutral choice that wont provide anything spectacular to lift the Libs to victory next election but wont be a deterrent to their chances like Dutton was and Taylor will be. Ley might have some appeal to Female voters where the Libs have been so out of touch with in recent times so that may also be a positive. I think Chalmers is a bit of a weak link for the ALP and doesnt have much of a clue about economics but the Libs with a goose like Angus Taylor as opposition Treasurer couldnt exploit him so one of their main tasks is to select the right candidate to be opposition Treasurer imo and this will help whoever takes over the leadership.
Why do you say that EB?
Among Chalmers' qualifications is a commerce degree and he has published on economics. The Fin Review got ten economists to rate his performance out of ten in January last year and he got 5.5, 6, 2X6.5, 3X7, 7.5, 8 and 8-9. While that's not a random or representative sample, an average rating of 7.95 isn't too shabby. Chalmers is quite a polished public speaker and that can be useful in obscuring any gaps in knowledge.
Labor's Assistant Treasurer, Dan Mulino, has a PhD in economics from Yale. Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities & Treasury, Andrew Leigh, has a PhD in economics, as does Andrew Charlton, Cabinet Secretary and the Assistant Minister for Science, Technology and the Digital Economy. Finance Minister, Katy Gallagher, doesn't have any formal qualifications in economics or related fields and qualified as a social worker.
Angus Taylor has a Bachelor of Economics and a Master of Philosophy in Economics from Oxford.
Anyway, Sussan Ley narrowly won the Liberal leadership vote and has Ted O’Brien as her deputy. Jacinta Nampijinpa Price withdrew from the deputy leadership ballot after Taylor lost.
Ley will be like the girl with the wheelbarrow, she has the job in front of her, but it is quite a remarkable achievement for her to become the first female leader of the Liberal Party.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 13, 2025, 04:43:20 pm
Libs should go with Ley now that Tehan has decided to sit this one out, the former is probably the neutral choice that wont provide anything spectacular to lift the Libs to victory next election but wont be a deterrent to their chances like Dutton was and Taylor will be. Ley might have some appeal to Female voters where the Libs have been so out of touch with in recent times so that may also be a positive. I think Chalmers is a bit of a weak link for the ALP and doesnt have much of a clue about economics but the Libs with a goose like Angus Taylor as opposition Treasurer couldnt exploit him so one of their main tasks is to select the right candidate to be opposition Treasurer imo and this will help whoever takes over the leadership.
Why do you say that EB?
Among Chalmers' qualifications is a commerce degree and he has published on economics. The Fin Review got ten economists to rate his performance out of ten in January last year and he got 5.5, 6, 2X6.5, 3X7, 7.5, 8 and 8-9. While that's not a random or representative sample, an average rating of 7.95 isn't too shabby. Chalmers is quite a polished public speaker and that can be useful in obscuring any gaps in knowledge.
Labor's Assistant Treasurer, Dan Mulino, has a PhD in economics from Yale. Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities & Treasury, Andrew Leigh, has a PhD in economics, as does Andrew Charlton, Cabinet Secretary and the Assistant Minister for Science, Technology and the Digital Economy. Finance Minister, Katy Gallagher, doesn't have any formal qualifications in economics or related fields and qualified as a social worker.
Angus Taylor has a Bachelor of Economics and a Master of Philosophy in Economics from Oxford.
Anyway, Sussan Ley narrowly won the Liberal leadership vote and has Ted O’Brien as her deputy. Jacinta Nampijinpa Price withdrew from the deputy leadership ballot after Taylor lost.
Ley will be like the girl with the wheelbarrow, she has the job in front of her, but it is quite a remarkable achievement for her to become the first female leader of the Liberal Party.
Chalmers is a good Politician, presents well, speaks well until asked a technical question about economics where he does a good obscuring his gaps in knowledge as you suggested by waffling about Labour Policy and Liberal failings. I listen to a podcast called the money cafe and he came across clueless on a range of issues, I can understand why Albanese has promoted Mulino as assistant Treasurer because he does know what he is talking about and id expect to see more of him doing interviews and handling people such as Sarah Ferguson on the ABC who seems to enjoy taking down JC. Snake" Chalmers" has come out today and said he needs two more terms to fix the economy???....6-9 years.....your kidding Jim, right? As I said before I think Susan Ley was the right choice to lead during a rebuild as a more moderate but I cant see her making much impression on the Aus public or providing Albo with any serious opposition and I think she is only warming the chair for others like Tehan and Wilson to throw their hat in the ring. I think Taylor paid for his insipid performance as opposition Treasurer and avoiding him as leader was one of the few things the LP have got right in the last month...
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: laj on May 13, 2025, 04:49:20 pm
Among Chalmers' qualifications is a commerce degree and he has published on economics. The Fin Review got ten economists to rate his performance out of ten in January last year and he got 5.5, 6, 2X6.5, 3X7, 7.5, 8 and 8-9. While that's not a random or representative sample, an average rating of 7.95 isn't too shabby. Chalmers is quite a polished public speaker and that can be useful in obscuring any gaps in knowledge.
Labor's Assistant Treasurer, Dan Mulino, has a PhD in economics from Yale. Assistant Minister for Productivity, Competition, Charities & Treasury, Andrew Leigh, has a PhD in economics, as does Andrew Charlton, Cabinet Secretary and the Assistant Minister for Science, Technology and the Digital Economy. Finance Minister, Katy Gallagher, doesn't have any formal qualifications in economics or related fields and qualified as a social worker.
Angus Taylor has a Bachelor of Economics and a Master of Philosophy in Economics from Oxford.
Anyway, Sussan Ley narrowly won the Liberal leadership vote and has Ted O’Brien as her deputy. Jacinta Nampijinpa Price withdrew from the deputy leadership ballot after Taylor lost.
Ley will be like the girl with the wheelbarrow, she has the job in front of her, but it is quite a remarkable achievement for her to become the first female leader of the Liberal Party.
Chalmers is a good Politician, presents well, speaks well until asked a technical question about economics where he does a good obscuring his gaps in knowledge as you suggested by waffling about Labour Policy and Liberal failings. I listen to a podcast called the money cafe and he came across clueless on a range of issues, I can understand why Albanese has promoted Mulino as assistant Treasurer because he does know what he is talking about and id expect to see more of him doing interviews and handling people such as Sarah Ferguson on the ABC who seems to enjoy taking down JC. Snake" Chalmers" has come out today and said he needs two more terms to fix the economy???....6-9 years.....your kidding Jim, right? As I said before I think Susan Ley was the right choice to lead during a rebuild as a more moderate but I cant see her making much impression on the Aus public or providing Albo with any serious opposition and I think she is only warming the chair for others like Tehan and Wilson to throw their hat in the ring. I think Taylor paid for his insipid performance as opposition Treasurer and avoiding him as leader was one of the few things the LP have got right in the last month...
I thought Chalmers was their best performer. Clear, concise and good in his role as Treasurer. Likely the leader after Albo. Alot of pollies don't fully understand economics 100%, that's why they have Treasury advice.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 13, 2025, 05:07:07 pm
Chalmers is a good Politician, presents well, speaks well until asked a technical question about economics where he does a good obscuring his gaps in knowledge as you suggested by waffling about Labour Policy and Liberal failings. I listen to a podcast called the money cafe and he came across clueless on a range of issues, I can understand why Albanese has promoted Mulino as assistant Treasurer because he does know what he is talking about and id expect to see more of him doing interviews and handling people such as Sarah Ferguson on the ABC who seems to enjoy taking down JC. Snake" Chalmers" has come out today and said he needs two more terms to fix the economy???....6-9 years.....your kidding Jim, right? As I said before I think Susan Ley was the right choice to lead during a rebuild as a more moderate but I cant see her making much impression on the Aus public or providing Albo with any serious opposition and I think she is only warming the chair for others like Tehan and Wilson to throw their hat in the ring. I think Taylor paid for his insipid performance as opposition Treasurer and avoiding him as leader was one of the few things the LP have got right in the last month...
I thought Chalmers was their best performer. Clear, concise and good in his role as Treasurer. Likely the leader after Albo. Alot of pollies don't fully understand economics 100%, that's why they have Treasury advice.
I think Chalmers is a good salesman unlike Taylor who couldnt sell a bone to a dog.....I reckon Albo will go another term after this one, given what he has to beat I reckon he would fancy his chances of becoming a 3peat PM.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 13, 2025, 05:25:10 pm
I thought Chalmers was their best performer. Clear, concise and good in his role as Treasurer. Likely the leader after Albo. Alot of pollies don't fully understand economics 100%, that's why they have Treasury advice.
I think Chalmers is a good salesman unlike Taylor who couldnt sell a bone to a dog.....I reckon Albo will go another term after this one, given what he has to beat I reckon he would fancy his chances of becoming a 3peat PM.
Agree
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 13, 2025, 05:29:02 pm
Ley is an experienced politician. She's worked across a number of ministerial portfolios. She's also been able to comeback from a political 'scandal' over travel expenses and was elected as deputy leader, so if nothing else she has some political nous and clout...and obviously knows how to work a room. On the negative side she has flip flopped on a number of issues which suggests she will go with the best political option rather than her convictions.
The problem for her is almost half her party voted against her. Now the next few months will tell a story. She will either grow in the job, or the termites will start their work and gradually eat away at any authority.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 13, 2025, 05:48:13 pm
Ley is an experienced politician. She's worked across a number of ministerial portfolios. She's also been able to comeback from a political 'scandal' over travel expenses and was elected as deputy leader, so if nothing else she has some political nous and clout...and obviously knows how to work a room. On the negative side she has flip flopped on a number of issues which suggests she will go with the best political option rather than her convictions.
The problem for her is almost half her party voted against her. Now the next few months will tell a story. She will either grow in the job, or the termites will start their work and gradually eat away at any authority.
I wasn't aware she was born in Nigeria to UK parents and spent many years int he UK.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: cookie2 on May 13, 2025, 05:50:56 pm
Ley is an experienced politician. She's worked across a number of ministerial portfolios. She's also been able to comeback from a political 'scandal' over travel expenses and was elected as deputy leader, so if nothing else she has some political nous and clout...and obviously knows how to work a room. On the negative side she has flip flopped on a number of issues which suggests she will go with the best political option rather than her convictions.
The problem for her is almost half her party voted against her. Now the next few months will tell a story. She will either grow in the job, or the termites will start their work and gradually eat away at any authority.
I wasn't aware she was born in Nigeria to UK parents and spent many years int he UK.
Wonder if she renounced her UK citizenship and that her Aussie citizenship is in order? 😇
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 13, 2025, 06:00:11 pm
I wasn't aware she was born in Nigeria to UK parents and spent many years int he UK.
Wonder if she renounced her UK citizenship and that her Aussie citizenship is in order? 😇
I think that the current crop of pollies have had their citizenship status checked and re-checked by their party, by the other mob and folk with an axe to grind.
Still, some of the vetting leaves a bit to be desired. A few days before the election it was revealed that a Liberal candidate had previously been a member of the ALP and the Greens. While there’s really nothing wrong with that, the Libs’ vetting process should have picked it up so they could get on the front foot.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 13, 2025, 06:06:14 pm
Ted O'Brien is an interesting choice as Deputy, was the shadow minister for climate and energy and the architect of the LNP's unpopular nuclear policy. He worked as a baker, speaks fluent Mandarin and lived and worked in China and Taiwan. Rumours he may be the new shadow Treasurer, would have thought he might make a good foreign minister, he looks a bit like Scott Morrison to me not sure if thats a good or bad thing.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 14, 2025, 08:40:18 am
Wonder if she renounced her UK citizenship and that her Aussie citizenship is in order? 😇
I think that the current crop of pollies have had their citizenship status checked and re-checked by their party, by the other mob and folk with an axe to grind.
Still, some of the vetting leaves a bit to be desired. A few days before the election it was revealed that a Liberal candidate had previously been a member of the ALP and the Greens. While there’s really nothing wrong with that, the Libs’ vetting process should have picked it up so they could get on the front foot.
It's almost like this person is so desperately trying to make it in politics they have no political affiliation.
Wonder why, its probably the gravy train of being an elected MP and a base salary of $205,798 per annum thats the driving motivation.
I think that the current crop of pollies have had their citizenship status checked and re-checked by their party, by the other mob and folk with an axe to grind.
Still, some of the vetting leaves a bit to be desired. A few days before the election it was revealed that a Liberal candidate had previously been a member of the ALP and the Greens. While there’s really nothing wrong with that, the Libs’ vetting process should have picked it up so they could get on the front foot.
It's almost like this person is so desperately trying to make it in politics they have no political affiliation.
Wonder why, its probably the gravy train of being an elected MP and a base salary of $205,798 per annum thats the driving motivation.
Remember the pension is means tested, but i suspect this one isn't...
It's only fair they only have to.serve 3 terms as a sitting member of parliament. 12 years....
True enough 3 Leos. However, many folks once getting into six figure salaries -- and of course, 7 figure salaries -- are no longer working 38 or so hours per week. They're owned by their job and often find themselves working 7 days per week, and 12-16 hr days are not uncommon. One of the chief reasons this little black duck got out of the corporate -- same for pollies -- sector... my first marriage was a casualty - never home! Those who chase huge salaries may very well get it... but they'll eventually pay for it.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 14, 2025, 10:36:02 am
She must be Hawaiian!
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 14, 2025, 10:38:31 am
True enough 3 Leos. However, many folks once getting into six figure salaries -- and of course, 7 figure salaries -- are no longer working 38 or so hours per week. They're owned by their job and often find themselves working 7 days per week, and 12-16 hr days are not uncommon. One of the chief reasons this little black duck got out of the corporate -- same for pollies -- sector... my first marriage was a casualty - never home! Those who chase huge salaries may very well get it... but they'll eventually pay for it.
The public have no idea of the price paid by career politicians, the public only see the gravy, the media only report the gravy.
Most people, nearly all people, could not handle it, it's 24/7.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 14, 2025, 11:19:02 am
True enough 3 Leos. However, many folks once getting into six figure salaries -- and of course, 7 figure salaries -- are no longer working 38 or so hours per week. They're owned by their job and often find themselves working 7 days per week, and 12-16 hr days are not uncommon. One of the chief reasons this little black duck got out of the corporate -- same for pollies -- sector... my first marriage was a casualty - never home! Those who chase huge salaries may very well get it... but they'll eventually pay for it.
The public have no idea of the price paid by career politicians, the public only see the gravy, the media only report the gravy.
Most people, nearly all people, could not handle it, it's 24/7.
I don’t begrudge politicians their pensions - most earn it and then some. However, I’m not sure that they should get their pension while working as a lobbyist or consultant on the basis of contacts and knowledge gained as an MP.
I’m not sure how it could be managed but I’d like to see the double-dipping eliminated; pension or salary, but not both.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Thryleon on May 14, 2025, 11:29:29 am
226 seats in parliament and these guys get paid those sorts of benefits across the board.
Career politicians....
LP, you've missed the mark so widely in what I was getting at. Most people in industry (IT) dont truly ever switch off. There are oncall shifts for a reason, and most of the time, there is a lot of unrewarded work done, because the impact is highly visible instead of their profile. You wont see them getting a paid government pension for life (means tested, wont even get a pension, so their super fund will do, or its the aged pension) nor their widows and kids.
From where I sit, these ministers are senior managers. The wear responsibility, but the actual work is delegated out underneath them, and they will scape goat people if it ensures they come out of it smelling like roses. They are career talkers without doing. They get paid handsomely for it, and they will change parties if it will keep them riding that gravy train. You wont see, hear or know who really does the work. Thing is its a giant pyramid scheme. Directors, Associate directors, Associate Program directors. All of them toiling away underneath making sure everything is going ahead.
Media reporting on the gravy... I spit on the assertion that my views are swayed by media and that any stone throwing comes from media. From where I sit, these people get paid a lot of money to oversea that work delegated gets done, but the work delegated is the actual work involved, and they wouldnt know if it got done without an audit from someone like KPMG, PWC or Deloitte.
My opinion has come from what I have seen and experienced working in a variety of government roles. Lots of reporting done, with no one really needing to read it. Lots of managers and middle managers who hold pretend accountability and talk a good game, without having any game of their own.
The more disconnected these people become from every day Australians, the more scope there is for bad outcomes and decision making. Duttons price of eggs answer tells the story as well as any. The fact that Albanese had an idea of the cost of eggs, is likely a result of him having prepared better, but neither of them are buying their own eggs and I was expecting both of them to get it wildly wrong and to be honest, based on their guesstimates, both are incorrect. 10 dollars these days for a dozen eggs is about what ive seen unless you go for the lowest cost eggs, rather than observing where they come from.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 14, 2025, 11:40:10 am
I don’t begrudge politicians their pensions - most earn it and then some. However, I’m not sure that they should get their pension while working as a lobbyist or consultant on the basis of contacts and knowledge gained as an MP.
I’m not sure how it could be managed but I’d like to see the double-dipping eliminated; pension or salary, but not both.
As @Baggers points out regarding corporate wages, it's the case that most politicians would have made more money if they stayed out of politics.
It's one of the big problems that keeps younger people out of politics, it doesn't make financial sense for young people to be in the gig it becomes very costly over a lifetime. They must sacrifice the period of high performance life that is/was potentially most profitable for them.
We are not talking about average wage earners, we are talking about high performance individuals, the type we need and want running the country.
I get your perspective, but I'd assert it a perspective coloured by the perception of single issue placeholders who aren't really ever candidates for the biggest roles in government.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 14, 2025, 12:29:58 pm
I read it as a big win for Ley today, having Price pull the plug on running for deputy, it probably also spells the end for Price leaving her homeless on that side of politics as it alienates her supporters.
I don't think it's possible in the current political situation for these "Liberals" to hunker down and ride out the next few years before resurfacing, there won't be anything left to surface into! To get back they now have to destroy what remains from the inside, and that is counterproductive. They aren't Little Johnny, and it's not 1999, he could only do what he did because he was only failing by narrow margins.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 14, 2025, 12:51:12 pm
I don’t begrudge politicians their pensions - most earn it and then some. However, I’m not sure that they should get their pension while working as a lobbyist or consultant on the basis of contacts and knowledge gained as an MP.
I’m not sure how it could be managed but I’d like to see the double-dipping eliminated; pension or salary, but not both.
As @Baggers points out regarding corporate wages, it's the case that most politicians would have made more money if they stayed out of politics.
It's one of the big problems that keeps younger people out of politics, it doesn't make financial sense for young people to be in the gig it becomes very costly over a lifetime. They must sacrifice the period of high performance life that is/was potentially most profitable for them.
We are not talking about average wage earners, we are talking about high performance individuals, the type we need and want running the country.
I get your perspective, but I'd assert it a perspective coloured by the perception of single issue placeholders who aren't really ever candidates for the biggest roles in government.
I have worked closely with senior Victorian State Government Ministers from the ALP, Liberals and Nationals and I do appreciate how hard they work and the tremendous responsibility they carry. That responsibility is generally far greater than that borne by a corporate CEO on significantly more money and who is concerned mainly with profits rather than biosecurity, biodiversity, equitable access to health, housing, education, and other issues that may have huge repercussions if not handled well.
The Commonwealth has restrictions on how soon after leaving parliament, former MPs and Senators can work as lobbyists in areas related to their portfolios or with individuals and organisations they dealt with while in parliament. I don't believe that the States and Territories have similar requirements but the USA and Canada have a five year "cooling off" period. Once that time limit is up, it's open slather and we have Scott Morrison sitting on the board of DYME Maritime, a capital fund that invests in AUKUS and, of course, the Morrison government formed the AUKUS alliance. On the other side of the fence, former Labor Defence Minister Joel Fitzgibbon is a registered lobbyist for Serco, a British multinational defence, health, space, justice, migration, customer services, and transport company. I don't believe that Morrison or Fitzgibbon would have those roles if it wasn't for their parliamentary service and the contacts they made with the ADF, public servants and defence industries. In other words, Morrison, Fitzgibbon, Joe Hockey, Peter McGuaran, Marise Payne, Christopher Pyne, and many others are well paid to take advantage of contacts made while in parliament and are drawing substantial parliamentary pensions at the same time.
Then there's the classic case of Andrew Robb who, as Minister for Trade and Investment, approved Shandong Landbridge Group lease of Port Darwin. Robb was employed by Shandong Landbridge on $880,000 per year as soon as he left parliament.
Kevin Rudd is apparently drawing half of his parliamentary pension to top up the estimated $350K he receives as our US Ambassador.
I don't have a problem with the substantial parliamentary pensions - they're well-deserved - and I don't have a problem with former politicians working as lobbyists or for companies they may have dealt with in an official capacity, after a suitable cooling off period (closer to 5 years than 18 months). I do have an issue with former politicians drawing on their parliamentary pension while occupying highly paid positions, and particularly when they're paid out of the public purse.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: laj on May 17, 2025, 06:21:21 pm
True enough 3 Leos. However, many folks once getting into six figure salaries -- and of course, 7 figure salaries -- are no longer working 38 or so hours per week. They're owned by their job and often find themselves working 7 days per week, and 12-16 hr days are not uncommon. One of the chief reasons this little black duck got out of the corporate -- same for pollies -- sector... my first marriage was a casualty - never home! Those who chase huge salaries may very well get it... but they'll eventually pay for it.
The public have no idea of the price paid by career politicians, the public only see the gravy, the media only report the gravy.
Most people, nearly all people, could not handle it, it's 24/7.
Been involved. You're right. People have no idea what they go through.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 17, 2025, 11:14:09 pm
How farken long does it take to count a few envelopes? Some seats still unknown FFS. What do they do, walking in at 9am, make coffee, scratch their nether regions, talk footy, make another coffee, count one ballot paper, make another coffee, talk more crap, go for lunch, get pissed not come back, start fresh tomorrow?
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: dodge on May 17, 2025, 11:59:07 pm
AEC reckons about 5 weeks from the election for Calwell. With a 4 way count and 14 candidates, it's complicated. Also with scrutineers looking at everything vote, takes a lot of time.
Apparently with more people preferencing the majors, rather than voting directly for them this will happen more often.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 19, 2025, 10:01:55 am
How farken long does it take to count a few envelopes? Some seats still unknown FFS. What do they do, walking in at 9am, make coffee, scratch their nether regions, talk footy, make another coffee, count one ballot paper, make another coffee, talk more crap, go for lunch, get pissed not come back, start fresh tomorrow?
All votes in every electorate are counted three times with the last count involving a full preference allocation. That's every preference allocated and re-allocated until all votes are assigned to the two leading candidates. The parties have scrutineers who watch the allocation of preferences and can question the validity of votes and preferences so it can be a very lengthy process.
If there's less than 100 votes between the first and second candidates, a full recount of all formal and informal ballot papers is always conducted.
The AEC is also required by law to wait until 13 days after the poll for all "declaration votes" to be allocated to the correct electorate.
We have one of the most complex and time-consuming vote counting operations. The AEC says that the process must be right, not rushed, and I'm happy with that.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 19, 2025, 10:36:08 am
How farken long does it take to count a few envelopes? Some seats still unknown FFS. What do they do, walking in at 9am, make coffee, scratch their nether regions, talk footy, make another coffee, count one ballot paper, make another coffee, talk more crap, go for lunch, get pissed not come back, start fresh tomorrow?
All votes in every electorate are counted three times with the last count involving a full preference allocation. That's every preference allocated and re-allocated until all votes are assigned to the two leading candidates. The parties have scrutineers who watch the allocation of preferences and can question the validity of votes and preferences so it can be a very lengthy process.
If there's less than 100 votes between the first and second candidates, a full recount of all formal and informal ballot papers is always conducted.
The AEC is also required by law to wait until 13 days after the poll for all "declaration votes" to be allocated to the correct electorate.
We have one of the most complex and time-consuming vote counting operations. The AEC says that the process must be right, not rushed, and I'm happy with that.
It would be much simpler if we just did away with the preferential system and made it first past the post.
I could vote for Trumpet of Patriots Then give my second preference to One Nation Then my third vote to the Liberal party
All I've done is wasted time. My vote has still ended up with the LNP And in the majority of cases its the Labor/Lib where the election is decided.
The preferential system allows us to feel we're making a difference, even sending a message in the form of a protest vote. But in the end it really doesn't matter.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: dodge on May 19, 2025, 11:12:30 am
First past the post doesn't get a majority representation:
eg: 34% vote LNP 33% vote Labor 33% vote other
LNP gets in, yet 66% of the people don't want them. Yes, it would change the way people vote (esp 33% other), but then there is little prospect of changing the 2 party system that we currently have.
Your example of preference voting is, as you pointed out also the benefit of preference voting in that you have ultimately got your preference, but you have told them that they have a lot of room to improve! The difference it makes is dependent on the politicians - not a lot of talent, so little difference.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: shawny on May 19, 2025, 12:14:25 pm
State government just approved $380M upgrade for the F1 garages next year’s race.
Yet hospital funding is slashed.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 19, 2025, 12:19:33 pm
Had it been first past the post in this election the results would have been pretty much the same as it has actually turned out. Labor would still have an absolute majority but a couple fewer seats. Libs would have a few more. Greens would have one and the independents (Teals Katter etc) around 7 or 8.
Not a lot of difference but a much simpler and more quickly declared poll
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: kruddler on May 19, 2025, 02:21:45 pm
All votes in every electorate are counted three times with the last count involving a full preference allocation. That's every preference allocated and re-allocated until all votes are assigned to the two leading candidates. The parties have scrutineers who watch the allocation of preferences and can question the validity of votes and preferences so it can be a very lengthy process.
If there's less than 100 votes between the first and second candidates, a full recount of all formal and informal ballot papers is always conducted.
The AEC is also required by law to wait until 13 days after the poll for all "declaration votes" to be allocated to the correct electorate.
We have one of the most complex and time-consuming vote counting operations. The AEC says that the process must be right, not rushed, and I'm happy with that.
It would be much simpler if we just did away with the preferential system and made it first past the post.
I could vote for Trumpet of Patriots Then give my second preference to One Nation Then my third vote to the Liberal party
All I've done is wasted time. My vote has still ended up with the LNP And in the majority of cases its the Labor/Lib where the election is decided.
The preferential system allows us to feel we're making a difference, even sending a message in the form of a protest vote. But in the end it really doesn't matter.
re your last line. You could say that no matter who you vote for.
I think DJC is right though. You can send a message without it having any effect right now.....but hopefully in the future it will.
The system is a good one. The process needs to be sped up. The electronic voting option would speed up the process plenty, but it creates trust issues and opens up for potential hacking.
At the end of the day, does it matter how long it takes to count the votes? Does it have a big chance to our day to day lives in any way?
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 19, 2025, 02:59:07 pm
It would be much simpler if we just did away with the preferential system and made it first past the post.
I could vote for Trumpet of Patriots Then give my second preference to One Nation Then my third vote to the Liberal party
All I've done is wasted time. My vote has still ended up with the LNP And in the majority of cases its the Labor/Lib where the election is decided.
The preferential system allows us to feel we're making a difference, even sending a message in the form of a protest vote. But in the end it really doesn't matter.
re your last line. You could say that no matter who you vote for.
I think DJC is right though. You can send a message without it having any effect right now.....but hopefully in the future it will.
The system is a good one. The process needs to be sped up. The electronic voting option would speed up the process plenty, but it creates trust issues and opens up for potential hacking.
At the end of the day, does it matter how long it takes to count the votes? Does it have a big chance to our day to day lives in any way?
It hasn't this time because the result was pretty clear cut. But if government was dependent on a few votes in a number of seats, that chopped and changed as postals and absentees rolled in it might cause a bit more grief. Eventually we will have some sort of automated system that gives us a result within minutes of polls closing but just at the moment the security issues would be a bit too difficult to overcome.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: dodge on May 19, 2025, 04:52:54 pm
Had it been first past the post in this election the results would have been pretty much the same as it has actually turned out. Labor would still have an absolute majority but a couple fewer seats. Libs would have a few more. Greens would have one and the independents (Teals Katter etc) around 7 or 8.
Not a lot of difference but a much simpler and more quickly declared poll
Thanks Lods - I should be working, but these trigger me, so I need to have a look... :))
In Vic, if it was first past the post, there would be 5 less ALP seats and 1 less Independent. These are replaced by first past the post - 5 LNP and 1 Greens. Give me a couple of days, and I am sure that I will need a distraction/procrastination tool to look at the other states! There was only one seat in Vic where first past the post got >50% of the vote.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: LP on May 19, 2025, 04:59:21 pm
There was only one seat in Vic where first past the post got >50% of the vote.
The situation is going to get dramatically worse, because the ballot box is being deliberately manipulated.
We might get to the point where we need two rounds of voting, the first to separate the wheat from the chaff, the second to elect the victor. This would at least stop the current situation where pseudo-candidates are nominated to deliberately diffuse the vote on spurious single issue platforms.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 19, 2025, 05:26:02 pm
Had it been first past the post in this election the results would have been pretty much the same as it has actually turned out. Labor would still have an absolute majority but a couple fewer seats. Libs would have a few more. Greens would have one and the independents (Teals Katter etc) around 7 or 8.
Not a lot of difference but a much simpler and more quickly declared poll
Thanks Lods - I should be working, but these trigger me, so I need to have a look... :))
In Vic, if it was first past the post, there would be 5 less ALP seats and 1 less Independent. These are replaced by first past the post - 5 LNP and 1 Greens. Give me a couple of days, and I am sure that I will need a distraction/procrastination tool to look at the other states! There was only one seat in Vic where first past the post got >50% of the vote.
Don't worry too much dodge. I had a spare hour or two earlier on ;D ;D First past the post (subject to a recount)
ALP 86 LNP 56 Ind Katter Teal etc 7 Greens 1
On the downside (for some),both Dutton and Bandt would have been re-elected :D :D
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: dodge on May 19, 2025, 05:38:20 pm
Thanks Lods. Distraction dealt with. Now if you could do my sons footy and my tennis, that would be great!
Mine have a couple of oddities, particularly where a lib and nat ran in the same seat.
Interesting that in SA there were cousins that ran against each other.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 20, 2025, 02:18:07 pm
Good to see the Nationals getting rid of the 'dead' wood :D :D
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 20, 2025, 06:55:46 pm
Good to see the Nationals getting rid of the 'dead' wood :D :D
One question that sprang to mind when I saw that David Littleproud had pulled the Nationals out of the coalition was whether Susssan Ley would have enough folk to cover all of the shadow ministries 🤔
Littleproud wants to persist with policies that proved to be unpopular with the electors and Ley would have been committing her party to many years in the doldrums if she had backed down.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 20, 2025, 08:17:09 pm
It's hard to know how the long term effects of this will play out. It will present both parties with a number of logistical and funding issues. There will be problems in those states where the parties run as a combined group. How will that break up.
It may be that the Nats look to recapture some of the vote that went to parties like One Nation and the Trumpets by embracing some policies advocated by those groups. It also allows the Liberal party to move more towards the middle ground. The problem is with one going right and the other left.... How far will the gap widen between both. It goes without saying that if after the next election Libs and Nats together hold a majority there will be a return to a coalition. But it might be a messy one.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: laj on May 20, 2025, 09:18:36 pm
Had it been first past the post in this election the results would have been pretty much the same as it has actually turned out. Labor would still have an absolute majority but a couple fewer seats. Libs would have a few more. Greens would have one and the independents (Teals Katter etc) around 7 or 8.
Not a lot of difference but a much simpler and more quickly declared poll
One thing.the Preferential System does in each seat is provide an actual majority. You can vote for your Party, send a message, and still vote for which major Party you prefer. You feel your vote isn't wasted. First Past the Post would just wreck minor Parties. No good measuring who would have won under that System as a high majority would vote differently. No one likes to see their vote wasted.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 21, 2025, 04:53:48 pm
Gisele Kapterian, presumptive Member for Bradfield, attended the Liberal Party room and voted for Sussan Ley. Ley was subsequently elected leader with 29 votes to Angus Taylor's 25. Teal Independent, Nicolette Boele, has now been declared the provisional winner of Bradfield with a margin of 40 votes. There's a recount to go through and a possible court challenge but it's evident that Kapterian shouldn't have voted in the leadership ballot.
On the other side of the coin, Angus Taylor supporter, Terry Young, did not vote because his seat of Longman was in doubt. It's now clear that Young has retained his seat and that would make the leadership ballot 28-26. Then there's the three retiring Liberal Senators who voted for Ley but will leave the Senate in July. How long before Taylor challenges for the leadership?
The other thing about the seat of Bradfield is that it was the Liberal's safest seat. They held it in 2016 by 71-29% two party preferred. That is an enormous collapse in voter support in nine years,
It is a very interesting time for psephologists.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 21, 2025, 05:53:24 pm
Couldnt get any better for Albo, the Libs and Nats divided and Susan Ley hanging on by a thread from a dud like Angus Taylor waiting for his chance to white ant her then make his move to take over the leadership. I'll give the Libs/Nats split one term and Taylor to be the Libs leader by the next election and the Libs to get another hammering.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 21, 2025, 06:48:58 pm
They will get a hammering EB, unless they can claw back the support that the Teal Independents have taken off them. That’s going to be a challenge, particularly if they can’t mend their ideological divide.
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: DJC on May 23, 2025, 01:51:19 pm
Well, it seems that coalition break up may have only been a trial separation and there could be a rapprochement on the horizon.
However, it doesn't seem to have helped David Littleproud and the jungle drums are beating out "leadership challenge".
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: Lods on May 23, 2025, 02:21:20 pm
Both Lib and National parties are in a bit of a mess. But there is probably no better time to be in a bit of a mess...because the next Federal election is a long, long way away :D
Title: Re: Election 2025 (Poll added)
Post by: PaulP on May 24, 2025, 08:20:46 pm