Carlton Supporters Club

2nd 1/2 wasn’t on our terms.
Jack was a loss, the umpiring was deplorable, I wonder of the match review will have any thoughts on head high bumps… ?

Fold the club - we are going no where not enough heart and poor system to win...some players just have pea hearts.

16 players behind the ball when we needed goals is one of the dumbest things you see in football.

Quote from: northernblue – on May 16, 2025, 10:26:12 pm

2nd 1/2 wasn’t on our terms.
Jack was a loss, the umpiring was deplorable, I wonder of the match review will have any thoughts on head high bumps… ?

Should be at least 1 suspension if not 2.

Syd wont trouble many by the way.

It may be considered unfair to single out one player, but I struggle to see why Motlop is getting a game, let alone be in negotiations for another contract.

Motlop gets in good positions.
But he doesn't take the ball with him. ::)

It may be considered unfair to single out one player, but I struggle to see why Motlop is getting a game, let alone be in negotiations for another contract.

How many years have we been rebuilding for ?

And this is the group we waited patiently for.

We were dudded.

Said it time and time again but this group of footballers will never get close to the ultimate prize as ability wise they are mid table and mentally are as weak as any team.

issue is I have no idea what needs to be done to give this list a shot at snaring a flag and based on my faith of our list management neither do they.

We play a scrappy unattractive brand with lots of errors, poor kicking etc and have all season, Swans are the same, it's a clunky battling style only with sporadic highlights from their stars. It wasnt a great game standard wise and it looked like two mid pack struggling teams , throw in some rubbish umpiring and it was hard to watch.

Charlie Curnow is like the little girl with the curl.
When he is good...he is very, very good.
When he is bad he can be horrid.
And he can do both versions in the same game.

Needed Walsh and Hewett to stand up and they didn't.

I thought Pitto was good - but why put 16 players behind the ball with 15 minutes to go and a goal down only to cop another goal. That's on the leaders.

Cincotta will come back in a few weeks and once in won't go out of the team i think. Has heels, strong in the contest, makes good decisions, can defend, is relatively no nonsense and will pop up for goals.  Ultimately we have too many non performers getting a game, and too many out to really do any damage.  I think we are better off getting time into players to find out what their worth is, gear up for next season. Get docherty back in the ones.  I know he hasn't played well this season, but we need to work out if he's going to come good and vfl is just too much of a step down.

Quote from: Thryleon – on May 17, 2025, 08:45:45 am

Cincotta will come back in a few weeks and once in won't go out of the team i think. Has heels, strong in the contest, makes good decisions, can defend, is relatively no nonsense and will pop up for goals.  Ultimately we have too many non performers getting a game, and too many out to really do any damage.  I think we are better off getting time into players to find out what their worth is, gear up for next season. Get docherty back in the ones.  I know he hasn't played well this season, but we need to work out if he's going to come good and vfl is just too much of a step down.

. 
Yes Thry, looking like a season where we need to try various players  and see if they have the "skills under pressure" . Eg. Moir, Lemony, Wilson, O'keef etc, plus manage the young bodied Silvagni boys carefully.  Last night we had several boys with potential in "learning the game" like White and Carol.  Liked Lord's game, good pick up and has the skill level IMO

Ab

The problem is our soldiers vary from SAS to 'Sad Sacks'

No surprises. Same old same old. In fact, looked pretty much the same as the beginning of the season... opposition ups the ante in the second half, discipline and leadership wilt. Mentally tired or physically spent? Maybe both.

We were informed at the beginning of the season that inconsistency would be addressed. When will that be addressed, exactly? Inconsistency is still our brand.

Reward for effort (scoreboard) remains an issue. Just seems that our small forwards are trained as small defenders on the forward line. Early on in his career Mots was creative and dangerous around goals. Has that creativity not been nurtured and built upon? More recently, White who showed creative flair early. Now? Gone. Another dour defender in the forward line. Now I understand why Frankie was recruited. He's our kind of small forward - strong defensively.

Interesting that Rottingwood is also a very good side defensively, but get better as the game goes on... and have a number of gears. We seem to have one focus, keep the opposition to under 80pts. We achieved that against the Fluffy Ducks. Tick. Maybe our 'team defense' is not as good as we believe? Seems the top clubs are very good at defense, and can hit the scoreboard - nourishment/reward for effort. Us, the Go Dees and Aints are all dour. Mm, let's check out ladder positions.

I can't help but wonder if we actually know what we're doing, coaching wise.

Quote from: Lods – on May 17, 2025, 09:29:13 am

The problem is our soldiers vary from SAS to 'Sad Sacks'

Showing your age with that reference Lods.  :))

Couldn't control Heeney and his mate Warner for 4 quarters, same old story...

The bloody consistency. When we play well we beat anyone, but we are so on and off, often during the same game. More than anything we have to get on top of consistency issues. Soon as we look like getting on terms, re wins and losses, we fall in a heap. Get on top of that and we are a side.

Likely to go pump GWS nest week then lose to Essendon the week after. We have a decent chance to put ourselves ahead of the ledger over the next 4 weeks, let's see if it happens.

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on May 16, 2025, 10:28:34 pm

Couldn't control Heeney and his mate Warner for 4 quarters, same old story...

I thought the same and as you say its the same story. I mean blind Freddy could see Heeney was the one who was going to impact the result yet still left to roam without a hard tag. Why??

I've said it countless times the footy IQ of this list is sub par and the coaching is also not anywhere near that of the competing teams.

I rate Walsh but how many times is he going to be caught napping or just poor positioning resulting in goals at critical times. Why does he not know how to defend a smart player at a stoppage. The one where he was facing Warner with his back to the play with no clue at all where the ball was just beyond stupid. Warner is quick so by the time he has reacted its a shot on goal. How can it be that a player in the system for that long is so out of his depth in set play situations.  Do these blokes not train that sort of thing. 

Our blokes give effort and i really do think they care but my gosh teams like the pies make us look like absolute amateurs.

 

The bloody consistency. When we play well we beat anyone, but we are so on and off, often during the same game. More than anything we have to get on top of consistency issues. Soon as we look like getting on terms, re wins and losses, we fall in a heap. Get on top of that and we are a side.

Likely to go pump GWS nest week then lose to Essendon the week after. We have a decent chance to put ourselves ahead of the ledger over the next 4 weeks, let's see if it happens.

Our blokes give effort and i really do think they care
 

We are not smart enough in the coaches box and rely heavily on too few players.
The brand and method we have doesn't hold up over a long season.
We have a few good games where our stars shine and we get teased we are decent but even when we win most of the time it's a shabby poorly executed game style based on a heavy clearance rate and and repeated entries rather than high quality efficient method.
Just not sustainable...

Everyone has identified the players that were going to win it for Sydney.
What did we do to stop them? Who did we play to stop them? What options did we have to stop them?
SFA on all counts.

Personally, i think we went in too tall, especially since their talls were not going to win them the game, and we needed options on the deck.....especially with the rain. We got pretty lucky last week with the same tall side and tried to roll the dice again, with the added degree of difficulty of the rain working against us.

That being said, if we play this game next week, we probably win.
TDK comes in for Pitto.
Acres comes in for Binns
Fogarty comes in for Evans
Docherty comes in for Boyd (inj)
Cincotta comes in for Silvagni (inj)

I think that team suits the swans better

Quote from: kruddler – on May 17, 2025, 12:25:05 pm

Everyone has identified the players that were going to win it for Sydney.
What did we do to stop them? Who did we play to stop them? What options did we have to stop them?
SFA on all counts.

Personally, i think we went in too tall, especially since their talls were not going to win them the game, and we needed options on the deck.....especially with the rain. We got pretty lucky last week with the same tall side and tried to roll the dice again, with the added degree of difficulty of the rain working against us.

That being said, if we play this game next week, we probably win.
TDK comes in for Pitto.
Acres comes in for Binns
Fogarty comes in for Evans
Docherty comes in for Boyd (inj)
Cincotta comes in for Silvagni (inj)

I think that team suits the swans better

Thing is they also had a team well below its full strength. No Gulden, McDonald, Adams, Mills, Papley. Plus next year it will be pit in and TDK out so better gets used to that one.

We cant keep saying the same thing with every loss. Every team plays without its best 22 and to use that as a defence papers over much deeper cracks.

They were there for the taking and once again we failed.

Motlop gets in good positions.
But he doesn't take the ball with him. ::)

Quote from: Lods – on May 16, 2025, 10:56:25 pm

Motlop gets in good positions.
But he doesn't take the ball with him. ::)

Motlop reminds me Deluilo. Runs around and try's to break tackles and always gets caught. Take the first option and get rid of the ball. Been reading the posts this year but have not commented on anything as it's just to much.
Like a lot of people on this forum I've had a gut full. Don't watch the replay unless we win and just lost a lot of interest compared to my younger years.

We will probably do a 2023, make finals only to bow out and keep us hanging for next year.

Quote from: Baggers – on May 17, 2025, 09:32:21 am

No surprises. Same old same old. In fact, looked pretty much the same as the beginning of the season... opposition ups the ante in the second half, discipline and leadership wilt. Mentally tired or physically spent? Maybe both.

We were informed at the beginning of the season that inconsistency would be addressed. When will that be addressed, exactly? Inconsistency is still our brand.

Reward for effort (scoreboard) remains an issue. Just seems that our small forwards are trained as small defenders on the forward line. Early on in his career Mots was creative and dangerous around goals. Has that creativity not been nurtured and built upon? More recently, White who showed creative flair early. Now? Gone. Another dour defender in the forward line. Now I understand why Frankie was recruited. He's our kind of small forward - strong defensively.

Interesting that Rottingwood is also a very good side defensively, but get better as the game goes on... and have a number of gears. We seem to have one focus, keep the opposition to under 80pts. We achieved that against the Fluffy Ducks. Tick. Maybe our 'team defense' is not as good as we believe? Seems the top clubs are very good at defense, and can hit the scoreboard - nourishment/reward for effort. Us, the Go Dees and Aints are all dour. Mm, let's check out ladder positions.

I can't help but wonder if we actually know what we're doing, coaching wise.

Voss identified the problems in his presser that we were beaten in the clearances and also pre match knew that Heeney and Warner were going to be the problems but the planning for them didn't hold up once they got rolling. You didn't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that if Heeney and Warner got 30 plus possessions each we were going to struggle much like when you play Collingwood and you have to control the Daicos kids or you lose.
We didnt seem to have a plan B, C, D etc and I thought once his plan A wasn't working we just let the game ride and gave up.

Quote from: blueboys_1 – on May 17, 2025, 01:31:29 pm

Motlop reminds me Deluilo. Runs around and try's to break tackles and always gets caught. Take the first option and get rid of the ball. Been reading the posts this year but have not commented on anything as it's just to much.
Like a lot of people on this forum I've had a gut full. Don't watch the replay unless we win and just lost a lot of interest compared to my younger years.

We will probably do a 2023, make finals only to bow out and keep us hanging for next year.

Motlops best games for the year has been when he has rotated through the midfield for large chunks of the game. Its happened 2-3 times this year.

Why it only happens in some games and not others, i don't understand. I called for it to happen in about the 3rd quarter last night as we needed to mix it up, but nothing.

His (lack of) awareness gets him into trouble sometimes, but he is still learning the game. That was only his 50th game last night.
Cant recall if it was Pagan or Malthouse who used to say you need at least 50 games (if not 100) before you can become a consistent AFL footballer. Given his injury history and interrupted pre-seasons, i'd say next year will be 'his year'.

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on May 17, 2025, 12:20:26 pm

We are not smart enough in the coaches box and rely heavily on too few players.
The brand and method we have doesn't hold up over a long season.
We have a few good games where our stars shine and we get teased we are decent but even when we win most of the time it's a shabby poorly executed game style based on a heavy clearance rate and and repeated entries rather than high quality efficient method.
Just not sustainable...

I'm not convinced the problem lies in the coaches box, they new what was coming, planned for it, the job was getting done until it wasn't. For 3 qtrs we won the arm wrestle, in the last we raised the white flag and that was most evident when we allowed the Swans to waltz out of the centre and bang one home straight after Charlie kicked his 3rd. That's just pissweak leadership and effort at that point in the game, nothing to do with coaches.
There are so many levers a coach can pull in game, the notion that we could just swing moves to quell 5 and 1 is a stretch, the midfield was doing the job on those 2 for three qtrs then they turned up their heels when it counted.

Quote from: blueboys_1 – on May 17, 2025, 01:31:29 pm

Motlop reminds me Deluilo. Runs around and try's to break tackles and always gets caught. Take the first option and get rid of the ball. Been reading the posts this year but have not commented on anything as it's just to much.
Like a lot of people on this forum I've had a gut full. Don't watch the replay unless we win and just lost a lot of interest compared to my younger years.

We will probably do a 2023, make finals only to bow out and keep us hanging for next year.

Motlops best games for the year has been when he has rotated through the midfield for large chunks of the game. Its happened 2-3 times this year.

Why it only happens in some games and not others, i don't understand. I called for it to happen in about the 3rd quarter last night as we needed to mix it up, but nothing.

His (lack of) awareness gets him into trouble sometimes, but he is still learning the game. That was only his 50th game last night.
Cant recall if it was Pagan or Malthouse who used to say you need at least 50 games (if not 100) before you can become a consistent AFL footballer. Given his injury history and interrupted pre-seasons, i'd say next year will be 'his year'.

I thought the game changed just before half time, Swans better players were heating up and they were matching us around the stoppages particularly when Pittonet started to tire and Grundy was winning all the ruckwork. Like us they play an inefficient brand and couldnt score which disguised how the game was changing imo.
Heeney and Warner had 19 scoring involvements...thats absurd for players that are meant to be tagged and the former kicked poorly and probably should have finished with five.
I thought they controlled the 3rd quarter with Pittonet out on his feet and Cripps not right but couldnt score and then the flood gates opened in the last when we just couldnt run with them or win a contest.

How much more time does Motlop needs to get a clue?  

How much more time does Motlop needs to get a clue?  50 games isn't prep school level, he really needs to start showing something or ta ta. Most duds are lucky to get 10 games to shape up or get moved on. We've got enough non performers

How much more time does Motlop needs to get a clue?  50 games isn't prep school level, he really needs to start showing something or ta ta. Most duds are lucky to get 10 games to shape up or get moved on. We've got enough non performers

How many years have we been rebuilding for ?

And this is the group we waited patiently for.

We were dudded.

Said it time and time again but this group of footballers will never get close to the ultimate prize as ability wise they are mid table and mentally are as weak as any team.

issue is I have no idea what needs to be done to give this list a shot at snaring a flag and based on my faith of our list management neither do they.

Quote from: Professer E – on May 17, 2025, 05:18:20 pm

How much more time does Motlop needs to get a clue?  50 games isn't prep school level, he really needs to start showing something or ta ta. Most duds are lucky to get 10 games to shape up or get moved on. We've got enough non performers

What has (or hasn't) Motlop done to draw criticism compared to any/all of.....
Durdin
Evans
White
Binns
even Fogarty

Looking at the numbers (before last night stats are taken into account)
Fogarty gets a pat on the back because he tackles. He averages 4.4 tackles this year.
Motlop gets a whack because he doesn't. Yet he averages 3.9 tackles this year (he got 4 last night)

Both get the same amount of possessions 10.7 to motlop  compared to 10.9 for Fog.
Same amount of inside 50's 2.3 each

Motlop hits the scoreboard more he is 6 goals 8 from 9 games.
Fogarty is 3 goals 3 from 8 games

Motlop averages 3 times as many clearances. Almost twice as many goal assists. Is 4.5 years younger with 28 games less experience.

So why is Motlop the problem?

Maybe he stands out more because of the long sleeves, or the colour of his skin.
Maybe its because he has more potential.
Maybe its because there is a lot of 'almost' in him.

But based on actual output....i don't see the criticism, especially when compared to Fogarty who gets a free pass for some reason.

I haven't run the figures on the other 4 blokes i mentioned above, but i'd be looking at them before Motlop anyway.

Quote from: Professer E – on May 17, 2025, 05:18:20 pm

How much more time does Motlop needs to get a clue?  50 games isn't prep school level, he really needs to start showing something or ta ta. Most duds are lucky to get 10 games to shape up or get moved on. We've got enough non performers

What has (or hasn't) Motlop done to draw criticism compared to any/all of.....
Durdin
Evans
White
Binns
even Fogarty

Looking at the numbers (before last night stats are taken into account)
Fogarty gets a pat on the back because he tackles. He averages 4.4 tackles this year.
Motlop gets a whack because he doesn't. Yet he averages 3.9 tackles this year (he got 4 last night)

Both get the same amount of possessions 10.7 to motlop  compared to 10.9 for Fog.
Same amount of inside 50's 2.3 each

Motlop hits the scoreboard more he is 6 goals 8 from 9 games.
Fogarty is 3 goals 3 from 8 games

Motlop averages 3 times as many clearances. Almost twice as many goal assists. Is 4.5 years younger with 28 games less experience.

So why is Motlop the problem?

Maybe he stands out more because of the long sleeves, or the colour of his skin.
Maybe its because he has more potential.
Maybe its because there is a lot of 'almost' in him.

But based on actual output....i don't see the criticism, especially when compared to Fogarty who gets a free pass for some reason.

I haven't run the figures on the other 4 blokes i mentioned above, but i'd be looking at them before Motlop anyway.

Quote from: shawny – on May 17, 2025, 12:45:29 pm

Thing is they also had a team well below its full strength. No Gulden, McDonald, Adams, Mills, Papley. Plus next year it will be pit in and TDK out so better gets used to that one.

We cant keep saying the same thing with every loss. Every team plays without its best 22 and to use that as a defence papers over much deeper cracks.

They were there for the taking and once again we failed.

I'm just pointing out that its a very even season and a lot of this comes down to luck.

People talking about handing in the keys of the back of this loss is so comical its sad.

People get so fixated on wins/losses, they lose the bigger picture.

As i pointed out earlier, our next 4 weeks are against 8th, 9th, 17th and 18th. We could easily win all. Even if we drop one of those games, we end up 7-7. Potentially, with no injuries left as almost all are scheduled to be back by then.
Would you bet against us making finals in that position? Hell no.

Its a marathon, not a sprint.

Quote from: shawny – on May 16, 2025, 11:22:50 pm

How many years have we been rebuilding for ?

And this is the group we waited patiently for.

We were dudded.

Said it time and time again but this group of footballers will never get close to the ultimate prize as ability wise they are mid table and mentally are as weak as any team.

issue is I have no idea what needs to be done to give this list a shot at snaring a flag and based on my faith of our list management neither do they.

Dudded bigtime,   and I could see the writing on the wall in the second half of '24,  then  the loss to the Tigers R1 this year just confirmed what many of us suspected....   this team is a huge letdown and just incapable of getting it done...   and most of the blame doesn't fall on the players to be fair.   It's our completely inept recruiting department who have really screwed up our list management and team balance etc.    This team won't go anywhere unfortunately (except backwards),  and things won't change until we get someone new in that department who knows what they're doing and won't continue to recruit useless spuds.  Too much each week is left to so few,  and our good players just aren't getting the support they need and are getting frustrated.   We need another 2-3 year mini rebuild.

Quote from: kruddler – on May 17, 2025, 12:50:01 pm

I'm just pointing out that its a very even season and a lot of this comes down to luck.

People talking about handing in the keys of the back of this loss is so comical its sad.

People get so fixated on wins/losses, they lose the bigger picture.

As i pointed out earlier, our next 4 weeks are against 8th, 9th, 17th and 18th. We could easily win all. Even if we drop one of those games, we end up 7-7. Potentially, with no injuries left as almost all are scheduled to be back by then.
Would you bet against us making finals in that position? Hell no.

Its a marathon, not a sprint.

kruddler the year is shot mate. the eight is pretty much set and us only beating the bottom tier teams is not going to be enough to book a finals place. You have to also beat those around you and when your starting so far back as we are you also need to claim some big scalps.

It just wont happen - i know your always ultra positive but the reality is its another wasted year which is bitterly disappointing again as this list is getting older has achieved very little and losing TDK will be a backward step whichever we want to spin it.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I can understand your statistical approach but mine is that once you've reached 50 games the "apprenticeship" period is over. Last year Motlop was given a pass because of a lack of PS, this year he apparently had a great PS and there hasn't been any drastic shift in output.

Your statistical "analysis" could be also interpreted as both Motlop and Fogarty are both equally as hopeless.

The season's not over until it's practically or mathematically impossible to make finals. A defeatist attitude leads to defeat.

Many, not all, of us supporters/members/fans will give up on the season long before the team does, they will fight on for a spot in the 8 until the end. Anyone will admit that with every 4 winnable points that go down the toilet, the task is made harder. Hence why Voss was so pissed off in his presser. We like to lay blame, criticise and sack because it's in our DNA. I'll hazard a guess that Voss's anger and frustration will make ours pale into insignificance even thought many of us were supporting Carlton before he was born. What we know about Voss is that he is as fierce a competitor that's ever been and he is deeply invested. I have faith in Voss, I don't have as much faith in many of those who run out every week wearing the CFC on the front of their jumper (and its not all lesser likes either).

Quote from: Gointocarlton – on May 17, 2025, 11:02:51 pm

Many, not all, of us supporters/members/fans will give up on the season long before the team does, they will fight on for a spot in the 8 until the end. Anyone will admit that with every 4 winnable points that go down the toilet, the task is made harder. Hence why Voss was so pissed off in his presser. We like to lay blame, criticise and sack because it's in our DNA. I'll hazard a guess that Voss's anger and frustration will make ours pale into insignificance even thought many of us were supporting Carlton before he was born. What we know about Voss is that he is as fierce a competitor that's ever been and he is deeply invested. I have faith in Voss, I don't have as much faith in many of those who run out every week wearing the CFC on the front of their jumper (and its not all lesser likes either).

There's no doubt that with each loss it becomes more of an uphill battle. But the spirit should never change.

This is somewhat off topic, but being constantly top 4 and constantly challenging (like Hawks, Geelong etc) is a bit like the Sydney property market : once you're in, you're in, and moving up, staying in that market etc becomes easier. Trying to enter the market from the outside is much harder. It's just an unfortunate reality that the breakthrough moment when you go from Ninthmond to 3peat is impossible to orchestrate and impossible to predict. Once we lost that winning feeling in the early 2000's, it's demonstrably clear that it's very difficult to get back. And it's not just us. That's just the reality. Nothing I say or believe will stop supporters from doing what they do. The best thing they can do to get the club back on top is to support the club 100%, rather than whinge and whine and rip into the club at any opportunity. Collingwood fans show how this is done, and we should follow suit. Support doesn't follow success. It's the other way round IMO.

Quote from: PaulP – on May 17, 2025, 06:43:56 pm

The season's not over until it's practically or mathematically impossible to make finals. A defeatist attitude leads to defeat.

Many, not all, of us supporters/members/fans will give up on the season long before the team does, they will fight on for a spot in the 8 until the end. Anyone will admit that with every 4 winnable points that go down the toilet, the task is made harder. Hence why Voss was so pissed off in his presser. We like to lay blame, criticise and sack because it's in our DNA. I'll hazard a guess that Voss's anger and frustration will make ours pale into insignificance even thought many of us were supporting Carlton before he was born. What we know about Voss is that he is as fierce a competitor that's ever been and he is deeply invested. I have faith in Voss, I don't have as much faith in many of those who run out every week wearing the CFC on the front of their jumper (and its not all lesser likes either).

The second half of the year is looking pretty important not just for a number of players but also coaches.
If we do fail to make the eight there will be enormous pressure for changes.

We often look at the difference between our best players and fringe players and acknowledge a gap.
But there's another equally important gap.
That's between our individual player's best and their worst.
Curnow is a good example.

When everyone is at their best we go OK.
It's the consistency of performance where we fall down.

When you're about the 3rd worst club in the competition for forward half conversions, you've got problems. Big problems. Little reward for effort - deflating. Confidence sapping. So little nourishment to feed a winning mindset.

Yes, we're hard to score against. However, it's also easy to limit our scoring... we help our opponents to minimize our scoring with our seemingly exclusive focus on a defensive/negative mind set.

It's like we think just get the ball into the forward 50 arc and believe Charles and H will do the rest. When at Brisvegas didn't Vossy also believe that with Brown and Fev up forward all they needed to do was get the ball near them? Didn't work.

Are our small forwards coached on offensive skills? Hitting the scoreboard? Getting in front of the talls in marking contests? Seems the coaching focus for our smalls is defensiveness - as long as you stop your opponent, job done. If you get a goal, wow, bonus.

I'm not blaming the players. Less talented sides than ours are in the 8 and win when injury strikes in game. This (losing) is happening in the coach's box. Against the Fluffy Ducks in the last qtr they wanted to win the game, we wanted to save the game - defeatist/negative attitude.

The pillars of our game plan seem to be contest and pressure - job done. Nuh. Part A is done (seemingly), but what about parts B & C? Plenty of inside 50s for poor return - major issue. Keep doing what you've always done... you know the rest.

3 1/2 years of same old, same old inconsistency and sub standard forward half delivery/connection and hitting the scoreboard when the numerous opportunities present themselves. The footy department/coaching group are under pressure for their job(s), and justifiably so.

No finals or an early exit if we fall into finals will mean changes and with some experienced premiership winning coaches available then Id say it would be goodbye to the entire coaching staff and changes in the recruiting department also.

Quote from: Baggers – on May 18, 2025, 10:16:35 am

When you're about the 3rd worst club in the competition for forward half conversions, you've got problems. Big problems. Little reward for effort - deflating. Confidence sapping. So little nourishment to feed a winning mindset.

Yes, we're hard to score against. However, it's also easy to limit our scoring... we help our opponents to minimize our scoring with our seemingly exclusive focus on a defensive/negative mind set.

It's like we think just get the ball into the forward 50 arc and believe Charles and H will do the rest. When at Brisvegas didn't Vossy also believe that with Brown and Fev up forward all they needed to do was get the ball near them? Didn't work.

Are our small forwards coached on offensive skills? Hitting the scoreboard? Getting in front of the talls in marking contests? Seems the coaching focus for our smalls is defensiveness - as long as you stop your opponent, job done. If you get a goal, wow, bonus.

I'm not blaming the players. Less talented sides than ours are in the 8 and win when injury strikes in game. This (losing) is happening in the coach's box. Against the Fluffy Ducks in the last qtr they wanted to win the game, we wanted to save the game - defeatist/negative attitude.

The pillars of our game plan seem to be contest and pressure - job done. Nuh. Part A is done (seemingly), but what about parts B & C? Plenty of inside 50s for poor return - major issue. Keep doing what you've always done... you know the rest.

3 1/2 years of same old, same old inconsistency and sub standard forward half delivery/connection and hitting the scoreboard when the numerous opportunities present themselves. The footy department/coaching group are under pressure for their job(s), and justifiably so.

I don't think Voss is under any pressure whatsoever when the players dish up performances like Friday nights last qtr, Adelaide (most of the game), Richmond second half. I dont care what anyone says, that's not coaching or game plan, that's application, desire and skill level or lack there of. The controlling of games at critical juncture lies with the on field leaders and their ability to crack the whip when needed. Ill say this again, IMO if our coaches need to waste time teaching AFL players how to kick, mark and handball, we drafted the wrong players and a combination of Norm Smith/RD Barassi/C Scott/D Parkin couldn't coach us to win consistently.
Instead of looking at the bottom end players. let's take Charlie and Harry for example. Charlie's brain fades (or farts) on Friday night were diabolical for a bloke of his talent. At his age, he should be taking games by the scruff of the neck and ripping them about for us. I find him lazy and not prepared to get his hands dirty and if he had the amount of desire to win that Crippa has in his little finger, he'd be doing it. Sorry for shooting Bambi but that's how I see it and it annoys the crap out of me.
How many marks (easy ones) did Harry drop the other night. One week he marks everything like he is Sticks Kernahan, the next week he turns up with cement hands. Holding those marks are critical to controlling the game and even more critical when your team lacks leg speed (I'm looking at you Curly Jnr), when the ball hits the deck, mobs with clean hands and fast feet scoot away with it. I know Harry has battled internal demons but when you run up the race, there is a certain expectation of a 27 year old former Coleman Medalist, especially when the game was in the balance on Friday night. These are example of two senior, experienced players who we need to stand up when it matters. They need to do the heavy lifting and take the younger less experienced ones along for the ride, not the other way around. I could go on but you get my drift.

Quote from: Gointocarlton – on May 18, 2025, 03:44:34 pm

I don't think Voss is under any pressure whatsoever when the players dish up performances like Friday nights last qtr, Adelaide (most of the game), Richmond second half. I dont care what anyone says, that's not coaching or game plan, that's application, desire and skill level or lack there of. The controlling of games at critical juncture lies with the on field leaders and their ability to crack the whip when needed. Ill say this again, IMO if our coaches need to waste time teaching AFL players how to kick, mark and handball, we drafted the wrong players and a combination of Norm Smith/RD Barassi/C Scott/D Parkin couldn't coach us to win consistently.
Instead of looking at the bottom end players. let's take Charlie and Harry for example. Charlie's brain fades (or farts) on Friday night were diabolical for a bloke of his talent. At his age, he should be taking games by the scruff of the neck and ripping them about for us. I find him lazy and not prepared to get his hands dirty and if he had the amount of desire to win that Crippa has in his little finger, he'd be doing it. Sorry for shooting Bambi but that's how I see it and it annoys the crap out of me.
How many marks (easy ones) did Harry drop the other night. One week he marks everything like he is Sticks Kernahan, the next week he turns up with cement hands. Holding those marks are critical to controlling the game and even more critical when your team lacks leg speed (I'm looking at you Curly Jnr), when the ball hits the deck, mobs with clean hands and fast feet scoot away with it. I know Harry has battled internal demons but when you run up the race, there is a certain expectation of a 27 year old former Coleman Medalist, especially when the game was in the balance on Friday night. These are example of two senior, experienced players who we need to stand up when it matters. They need to do the heavy lifting and take the younger less experienced ones along for the ride, not the other way around. I could go on but you get my drift.

He had two players to plan for and couldn't make it happen, no plan B and tactically he isn't great imo.
Swans had a lot of senior players missing and themselves not going great and won't make finals imo, it was a poor loss imo and I wasn't impressed with his coaches presser either. He has a weakened GWS team away from home this week and needs a win or i can see the vultures gathering..

I have just got home after flying to Sydney on Friday to watch the game.  After reading the comments on this thread I thought I might add a few of my own.

The playing surface was in very good condition.  There was no rain, humidity or wind during the game.

In the first quarter the Swans began hesitantly and we would have been goals ahead by the end of the quarter except for the fact we have such a dysfunctional forward line.  The Swans backline played one on one and our mids and half forwards did not know what to do.  When our mids went forward with the ball, rarely did our forwards lead up but seemed content to remain static. More often than not, when they did lead it was to the pockets.Consequently, we fell back into kicking the ball long onto the heads of the forwards.

The second quarter was a repeat of the first, and we could sense the Swan's confidence and teamwork growing.  In this quarter Motlop seemed to find new ways of stuffing up.  He dropped simple marks and seemed incapable of picking up the ball, just fumbling all the time.

The third quarter reopened old wounds for supporters.  The team was dreadful.  I think it took until the eighteen minute mark before we troubled the scoreboard.  Turnovers occurred almost every time we went into attack.  On the times when we went from the halfback line through the centre we always seemed to handball to a player under pressure, or kick straight to an opponent, scrub kick the ball along the ground, collide with another team mate, hesitate before making a decision, or kick the ball on top of a forward who had two opponents.

This quarter also exposed problems on our backline.  At his best McGovern is a serviceable CHB, but on any other day he is just not up to it.  Saad has also lost form. Instead of getting the ball, outpacing opponents and delivering the ball deep into the forward line,
on Friday night he had difficulty breaking away and had to run in a semi circle before kicking the ball high into the forward line.

The last quarter was a repeat of the third, only worse.

There is no way that we are going to get into the top four with this list.  I'm sure TDK will take the money and run.

I have just got home after flying to Sydney on Friday to watch the game.  After reading the comments on this thread I thought I might add a few of my own.

The playing surface was in very good condition.  There was no rain, humidity or wind during the game.

In the first quarter the Swans began hesitantly and we would have been goals ahead by the end of the quarter except for the fact we have such a dysfunctional forward line.  The Swans backline played one on one and our mids and half forwards did not know what to do.  When our mids went forward with the ball, rarely did our forwards lead up but seemed content to remain static. More often than not, when they did lead it was to the pockets.Consequently, we fell back into kicking the ball long onto the heads of the forwards.

The second quarter was a repeat of the first, and we could sense the Swan's confidence and teamwork growing.  In this quarter Motlop seemed to find new ways of stuffing up.  He dropped simple marks and seemed incapable of picking up the ball, just fumbling all the time.

The third quarter reopened old wounds for supporters.  The team was dreadful.  I think it took until the eighteen minute mark before we troubled the scoreboard.  Turnovers occurred almost every time we went into attack.  On the times when we went from the halfback line through the centre we always seemed to handball to a player under pressure, or kick straight to an opponent, scrub kick the ball along the ground, collide with another team mate, hesitate before making a decision, or kick the ball on top of a forward who had two opponents.

This quarter also exposed problems on our backline.  At his best McGovern is a serviceable CHB, but on any other day he is just not up to it.  Saad has also lost form. Instead of getting the ball, outpacing opponents and delivering the ball deep into the forward line,
on Friday night he had difficulty breaking away and had to run in a semi circle before kicking the ball high into the forward line.

The last quarter was a repeat of the third, only worse.

There is no way that we are going to get into the top four with this list.  I'm sure TDK will take the money and run.

Quote from: Baggers – on May 18, 2025, 10:16:35 am

When you're about the 3rd worst club in the competition for forward half conversions, you've got problems. Big problems. Little reward for effort - deflating. Confidence sapping. So little nourishment to feed a winning mindset.

Yes, we're hard to score against. However, it's also easy to limit our scoring... we help our opponents to minimize our scoring with our seemingly exclusive focus on a defensive/negative mind set.

It's like we think just get the ball into the forward 50 arc and believe Charles and H will do the rest. When at Brisvegas didn't Vossy also believe that with Brown and Fev up forward all they needed to do was get the ball near them? Didn't work.

Are our small forwards coached on offensive skills? Hitting the scoreboard? Getting in front of the talls in marking contests? Seems the coaching focus for our smalls is defensiveness - as long as you stop your opponent, job done. If you get a goal, wow, bonus.

I'm not blaming the players. Less talented sides than ours are in the 8 and win when injury strikes in game. This (losing) is happening in the coach's box. Against the Fluffy Ducks in the last qtr they wanted to win the game, we wanted to save the game - defeatist/negative attitude.

The pillars of our game plan seem to be contest and pressure - job done. Nuh. Part A is done (seemingly), but what about parts B & C? Plenty of inside 50s for poor return - major issue. Keep doing what you've always done... you know the rest.

3 1/2 years of same old, same old inconsistency and sub standard forward half delivery/connection and hitting the scoreboard when the numerous opportunities present themselves. The footy department/coaching group are under pressure for their job(s), and justifiably so.

I don't think Voss is under any pressure whatsoever when the players dish up performances like Friday nights last qtr, Adelaide (most of the game), Richmond second half. I dont care what anyone says, that's not coaching or game plan, that's application, desire and skill level or lack there of. The controlling of games at critical juncture lies with the on field leaders and their ability to crack the whip when needed. Ill say this again, IMO if our coaches need to waste time teaching AFL players how to kick, mark and handball, we drafted the wrong players and a combination of Norm Smith/RD Barassi/C Scott/D Parkin couldn't coach us to win consistently.
Instead of looking at the bottom end players. let's take Charlie and Harry for example. Charlie's brain fades (or farts) on Friday night were diabolical for a bloke of his talent. At his age, he should be taking games by the scruff of the neck and ripping them about for us. I find him lazy and not prepared to get his hands dirty and if he had the amount of desire to win that Crippa has in his little finger, he'd be doing it. Sorry for shooting Bambi but that's how I see it and it annoys the crap out of me.
How many marks (easy ones) did Harry drop the other night. One week he marks everything like he is Sticks Kernahan, the next week he turns up with cement hands. Holding those marks are critical to controlling the game and even more critical when your team lacks leg speed (I'm looking at you Curly Jnr), when the ball hits the deck, mobs with clean hands and fast feet scoot away with it. I know Harry has battled internal demons but when you run up the race, there is a certain expectation of a 27 year old former Coleman Medalist, especially when the game was in the balance on Friday night. These are example of two senior, experienced players who we need to stand up when it matters. They need to do the heavy lifting and take the younger less experienced ones along for the ride, not the other way around. I could go on but you get my drift.

Norf Melbourne beat the tigers today, you know the side that finished last in 2024, traded away much of their senior talent and started on a total rebuild.

There's people saying it's all good blah blah blah but let's face it, we're little better than the Tigers (4-6 as opposed to 3-7) our best players are 28+ and we've got F-all  young talent.  I find it hard to see any positivity in our list ATM.

Sadly, the AFL doesn't work like that. We sacked Teague and hired Voss because we are at the stage where finals were demanded, and, I'd imagine, by now, more. He''d be unlucky but that is how the system works sadly.

Quote from: Gointocarlton – on May 18, 2025, 03:44:34 pm

I don't think Voss is under any pressure whatsoever when the players dish up performances like Friday nights last qtr, Adelaide (most of the game), Richmond second half. I dont care what anyone says, that's not coaching or game plan, that's application, desire and skill level or lack there of. The controlling of games at critical juncture lies with the on field leaders and their ability to crack the whip when needed. Ill say this again, IMO if our coaches need to waste time teaching AFL players how to kick, mark and handball, we drafted the wrong players and a combination of Norm Smith/RD Barassi/C Scott/D Parkin couldn't coach us to win consistently.
Instead of looking at the bottom end players. let's take Charlie and Harry for example. Charlie's brain fades (or farts) on Friday night were diabolical for a bloke of his talent. At his age, he should be taking games by the scruff of the neck and ripping them about for us. I find him lazy and not prepared to get his hands dirty and if he had the amount of desire to win that Crippa has in his little finger, he'd be doing it. Sorry for shooting Bambi but that's how I see it and it annoys the crap out of me.
How many marks (easy ones) did Harry drop the other night. One week he marks everything like he is Sticks Kernahan, the next week he turns up with cement hands. Holding those marks are critical to controlling the game and even more critical when your team lacks leg speed (I'm looking at you Curly Jnr), when the ball hits the deck, mobs with clean hands and fast feet scoot away with it. I know Harry has battled internal demons but when you run up the race, there is a certain expectation of a 27 year old former Coleman Medalist, especially when the game was in the balance on Friday night. These are example of two senior, experienced players who we need to stand up when it matters. They need to do the heavy lifting and take the younger less experienced ones along for the ride, not the other way around. I could go on but you get my drift.

He had two players to plan for and couldn't make it happen, no plan B and tactically he isn't great imo.
Swans had a lot of senior players missing and themselves not going great and won't make finals imo, it was a poor loss imo and I wasn't impressed with his coaches presser either. He has a weakened GWS team away from home this week and needs a win or i can see the vultures gathering..

Quote from: laj – on May 18, 2025, 06:34:08 pm

Sadly, the AFL doesn't work like that. We sacked Teague and hired Voss because we are at the stage where finals were demanded, and, I'd imagine, by now, more. He''d be unlucky but that is how the system works sadly.

I think that's how poorly administered AFL teams work (sackings). Carlton was poorly administered (ie board, CEO etc). Voss will see out his contract as a minimum, if they think he hasn't performed at that point he mightn't be renewed. He will not be sacked before the contract is up.

I think that's how poorly administered AFL teams work (sackings). Carlton was poorly administered (ie board, CEO etc). Voss will see out his contract as a minimum, if they think he hasn't performed at that point he mightn't be renewed. He will not be sacked before the contract is up.

Quote from: Gointocarlton – on May 18, 2025, 06:49:13 pm

I think that's how poorly administered AFL teams work (sackings). Carlton was poorly administered (ie board, CEO etc). Voss will see out his contract as a minimum, if they think he hasn't performed at that point he mightn't be renewed. He will not be sacked before the contract is up.

I agree. Drawing a simplistic straight line between coach and results has not worked before and it won't work now. We need correct thought processes that lead to correct action, and we need to be asking good questions that lead to good answers. The process needs to be conducted by people who know what they're doing, yielding data that is not gerrymandered and will help us improve. The next coach won't be the answer and Graham Wright won't be the Messiah.

Wright is not a messiah but like Cook is a very good operator and when you compare them to the previous dingbats we've had, I think we are now in good hands.

Quote from: Gointocarlton – on May 18, 2025, 06:57:50 pm

Wright is not a messiah but like Cook is a very good operator and when you compare them to the previous dingbats we've had, I think we are now in good hands.

I agree, but we've had plenty of good operators over the years, and pretty much burned them all. Whether it's administrators, coaches, star players, it's a long list.

It is a long list, but i don't think we've ever had this much talent, potential and stability all at the 1 time.

We are closer to success than we have ever been IMO. We just need a couple things to click. Grab a couple 'roll players' in the off-season and we are away.

Off-field we are a success.
On-field we have plenty of talent.
We just don't have enough players fit enough for long enough to field enough talent.
Get a few extra players, get a bit of luck with keeping others fit.
Success will come on-field as well.

Quote from: Gointocarlton – on May 18, 2025, 06:57:50 pm

Wright is not a messiah but like Cook is a very good operator and when you compare them to the previous dingbats we've had, I think we are now in good hands.

I agree, but we've had plenty of good operators over the years, and pretty much burned them all. Whether it's administrators, coaches, star players, it's a long list.

Think we should look at 2 qtr games, We are clearly on top of the half time ladder with 9 "wins" from 10 games...lol!

Hird and Bartel both critical of our game plan for Heeney and Warner when both played  in the middle and playing a stoppage to stoppage game plan which is too old for the modern game where we struggle to advance the ball forward especially when we get behind and other teams are playing the quick hand pass forward run on style.
Then we had the Hamling tag on Weitering cutting him out of the game again that was just let slide.
The second half fade outs and lack of scoring stem from a neanderthal game style and a coaching staff that can't adjust tactics mid game and show any innovation.

You know what the really depressing thing is, Doc was probably the best in the magoos again this week. Sigh.

Hird and Bartel both critical of our game plan for Heeney and Warner when both played  in the middle and playing a stoppage to stoppage game plan which is too old for the modern game where we struggle to advance the ball forward especially when we get behind and other teams are playing the quick hand pass forward run on style.
Then we had the Hamling tag on Weitering cutting him out of the game again that was just let slide.
The second half fade outs and lack of scoring stem from a neanderthal game style and a coaching staff that can't adjust tactics mid game and show any innovation.

Still baffled how coaches couldnt motivate the players in the last qtr and leaders not standing up.
Pressure rating in last qtr 175 to Sydneys 210 - our pressure rating first half was hitting consistent 220s
Weak and heartless - in particular when top eight was there to be had.

Quote from: pinot – on May 18, 2025, 11:35:28 pm

Still baffled how coaches couldnt motivate the players in the last qtr and leaders not standing up.
Pressure rating in last qtr 175 to Sydneys 210 - our pressure rating first half was hitting consistent 220s
Weak and heartless - in particular when top eight was there to be had.

I don't think our boys were weak, they gave everything but in that last quarter they were just knackered owing to our labour intensive game plan.

It was suggested on Footy Furnace that Cripps and Hewett were Heeney and Warners direct opponents when both were playing in the middle, were they at fault for failing to do their job? or was Voss at fault for expecting two coalface mids with limited pace especially Cripps who as the game wears on slows to a halt to be able to keep with the Swans duo.
The other issue raised was when one of the Swans pair went forward that McGovern was the matchup but when both went forward there wasnt a proper matchup for the other one. If McGovern failed in his job by playing off his man too much as suggested why wasnt there a change and why were we under prepared for both Swans mids playing forward if what the FF crew were saying is true? Thats not directed soley at Voss either as he is relying on his line coaches to do their jobs as well.
I get players fail at their tasks and you can easily blame them but you have to have more than one plan and be able to throw the magnets around and as Bartel suggested if you cant get the individual matchups to suit you have to change the structure and involve other players ie wings, half forwards playing in closer or further up the ground etc.
Voss was pissed off at his players for failing in their tasks but I think he has to look a bit closer at his own performance and those of his line coaches...

Depends on the failures though. 

For mine this game was largely fine.  We lost our heads once silvagni went off because we were forced to shuffle the magnets.  Lewis Young went back and that means you lose dare with ball movement for safe with ball in hand.  He wasn't bad it just changed the dynamic to a shorter slower ball movement.  They lost Francis, and gambled on different matchups for curnow and Harry, and due to the aforementioned it worked.  They also went smaller which made then more mobile (which is our cryptonite).

The frustration from voss comes out of method change not copping a few goals. 

We started bombing it again and not playing the percentages.  Sydney started rolling late.  They've played well to close out games this year after starting poorly.

There aren't many teams doing it for 4 quarters these days.  We need to be a bit more measured here too.  Whilst the swans were missing a few they still had plenty that were in the grand final last year, and minus gulden and parley were they really missing much?

When it all boils down, we are a victim of our historic impatience here. We want to be better, but for whatever reason we are not in that conversation right now, and personally I look at the sheer number of times that we have activated the sub early, and which players keep breaking down, and go, yep, hows that for just dumb luck.  You cannot beat lady luck, and we have been as luckless a footy club as I have seen over the journey and part of that is poor planning because once you start relying on luck, you will find it goes against you. 

Nothing wrong with what you are saying @Baggers, I'm just seeing it different for a few different factors.

1. we dont play in a vacuum.  When the opposition adjusts their game to counter ours, we have suffered a few issues preventing us from making too many changes.  i.e.  losing players before half time.  By my count, in our last two games we have lost personnell by half time, forcing an activation of the sub.  I think this is the 5th time this season its happened (zac williams accounting for this twice).  Ironically we have been closer in games where we have had to activate the sub early than in games where we have chosen to use it, which is a bigger concern IMHO, but thats another story.  In round 1, nerves to Nick Haynes probably was the difference between winning and losing.  He had as bad a game as I have seen, and Mcgovern was similar for whatever reason.  Maybe it was unfamiliarity and playing young Ollie down back too. 

2.  Players sub 40 games don't have their role nutted down perfectly and are not seasoned performers.  To quote the afl, an average of 120 games playing together is a team vying for a flag.  I don't think we have this in more than 60% of the team with the lineup we are currently trotting out, and this includes players like Durdin, Motlop, Cerra, Haynes for starters.  Some of these names have the requisite number of games, but Haynes has played 9 games with us thus far.  It doesnt help some of our more reliable players are having down years, perhaps on the back of this.

3.  The season is no where near complete yet.  We have come into this season on the back of a coughing and spluttering last season, and I think we are simply not having a good year fitness wise.  This isnt the first time for us, it happened in 2012 as well, we just couldn't get rolling.  We aren't the first team to suffer this.  Hawthorn who we all agree were a benchmark won the flag in 2008, then spent the next few years suffering with injuries to key players and missed finals completely in 2009, limped in 2010, 2011 won 18 games for the year only to stumble in the finals losing in the first week, and then making it to the prelim to lose to Collingwood by 3 points, and then went on to finish 2012 as minor premiers just to lose the grand final to Sydney before they then went on a 3 peat. Inuries played their part in preventing them doing better a few years earlier.  That and blooding a few youngsters that eventually saw them go bang.  Sure, we arent in Hawks territory now, but if 2023 where we played in a prelim was our 2008 (Hawthorn won that one ahead of schedule and were arguably better than we were in that year but the point is, they struggled for the next few years in similar circumstances coming from a similar place to where we are coming from.  We may not ever be like that hawks outfit, but the formline shouldnt be ignored.  Not many jump up there and stay up there, but plenty of flash in the pans have happened.

When it all boils down, we are a victim of our historic impatience here.  We want to be better, but for whatever reason we are not in that conversation right now, and personally I look at the sheer number of times that we have activated the sub early, and which players keep breaking down, and go, yep, hows that for just dumb luck.  You cannot beat lady luck, and we have been as luckless a footy club as I have seen over the journey and part of that is poor planning because once you start relying on luck, you will find it goes against you. 

We have talked ad nauseum about player depth and what not, but Collingwood last season are an example of what happens when the wrong players break down consistently.  They went from flag winners to not playing finals.  Sydney are the example this season.  Went from last years most consistent team of performers, barely giving players a week off and using the least amount through the year, playing in a grand final, and this season can barely string 4 quarters together. 

To me, this is what I see.  A team that can, but often cant for a variety of reasons.  A lot of the pundits talk a lot about player selection tactics, and what not.  Thing is, sports is simple.  You start having compounding issues, and you come back to the field very quickly.  Pep Guardiolas Manchester City is a team with all the resources, best coaching and what not in the world, but when you lose your marquee striker for a 3rd of the season, they went from winning a treble of trophies (no easy feat) to winning not even the league cup which is very much the bridesmaid trophy crap clubs aspire to win.

When it all boils down, we are a victim of our historic impatience here.  We want to be better, but for whatever reason we are not in that conversation right now, and personally I look at the sheer number of times that we have activated the sub early, and which players keep breaking down, and go, yep, hows that for just dumb luck.  You cannot beat lady luck, and we have been as luckless a footy club as I have seen over the journey and part of that is poor planning because once you start relying on luck, you will find it goes against you. 

We have talked ad nauseum about player depth and what not, but Collingwood last season are an example of what happens when the wrong players break down consistently.  They went from flag winners to not playing finals.  Sydney are the example this season.  Went from last years most consistent team of performers, barely giving players a week off and using the least amount through the year, playing in a grand final, and this season can barely string 4 quarters together. 
 

Good to see Cooper Lord earn a Rising Star nomination.

This is how I see it.
When we are at our best we run hard to pressure the opposition and keep the ball from progressing towards their goal. It shows in the the tackles where we get two maybe three players involved.
We're 'up on' the opposition and cause repeated contests and errors. It's a hard physical contest type game.
Yes, there is pain on both sides in those forms of contests.
While we exert that pressure we can trouble any side.

But it's not sustainable...at least at the moment.
Maybe never with this group.
And when the game does open up 'we've fired our shot'.
We don't have another weapon.
And having pulled out their own guns the other sides finish over the top of us.

It's not so much a fitness issue, but a lack of a second form of attack.
(or as some call it Plan B)

We lead the League in Tackles and Contested ball gets...that to me equals a very taxing game.
Dont have a rebounder in the top 20 either so its not only a taxing game in general play but also taxing and slow moving the ball forward on the rebound without that Bailey Dale, J. Daicos, Whitfield type and we appear to have too many taller types down back imo.
Saad is in the top 20 for bounces but needs to get more of the ball or get it given to him more..