Beaten by a side that's quicker, cleaner and hungrier.
Yep. Their superior skills, run and spread left us gasping in their wake by game’s end.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: LoveNavy on May 24, 2025, 03:32:10 pm
Well I'm no longer holding hope. I've seen nothing to indicate we've improved (relative to the comp) from R1. Depressingly this is a mini series showcasing the club's position in the competition for more than 2 decades.
Short of a miracle, it's another year in the count towards a 3rd decade.
Hope everyone finds joy this weekend in life outside the everlasting blues blues.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: kruddler on May 24, 2025, 03:35:44 pm
Well, its time for the mid-season bye.
Hopefully Ed Curnow clears his schedule and offers up some accomodation around the campfire again. Time for some hard truths for a few of the boys.....and hopefully from the MC trying to work out exactly what we are trying to acheive.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: townsendcalling on May 24, 2025, 03:39:03 pm
Forward 50 entries 58 / 47 Carlton's way. Another Jordan Russell masterclass!!!! NFI!!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Micky0 on May 24, 2025, 03:41:00 pm
Forward 50 entries 58 / 47 Carlton's way. Another Jordan Russell masterclass!!!! NFI!!
We do not lead, we do not create space, we do fking nothing when someone has the ball outside 50. It is infuriating to watch the waste of effort time and again!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Lods on May 24, 2025, 03:41:52 pm
Funnily enough all the team stats are fairly even, except this one....again!!
We didn't make the most of our opportunities going forward.
I think the team is not on the same page and that's an on field leadership problem.
Before the game, I quoted Mick Malthouse. You don't win too many games making 5 changes to your lineup.
The concerning part is the yo yo of players in and out of the team tells me we are struggling for form and fitness more than anything else.
Disappointing to say the least.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Micky0 on May 24, 2025, 03:47:44 pm
A real huge positive - thankfully there is one - are the young ones!
White, Carroll, Lord and now O’Farrell have all Now gotten some game time and imo are keeping their cool better than our seasoned professionals! Hopefully they continue to improve and we can see their futures 👏🏽
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: laj on May 24, 2025, 03:49:20 pm
We have a nice few weeks to hopefully get 7-7 but not going to be seeing a run like 2023 to get us out of the crape.
I'm hoping, like 2006 with Geelong, 2016 with Richmond, it's the very bad year they had between finals appearances and a dynasty. That's about all I have left. That last 10 min was just throwing in the towel. We got within 9 pts then immediately gave them 2 goals in 2 minutes. Until this mob want it badly enough consistently they'll be a disappointment. Have the ability but not the will. Could well be a wasted era. Just another St.Kilda these days.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: percy on May 24, 2025, 03:50:41 pm
It is depressing watching this team play. They have no spark whatsoever.
I think our coaching group are not able to get the best out of them for whatever reason or maybe this group is just happy to get their pay cheque…..
I don’t think the TDK situation is helping with moulding the team either. :'(
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Thryleon on May 24, 2025, 03:56:45 pm
Hey guys, let me just catch you all up. This is our 2012 all over again. The team isnt fit, it isnt firing. It is good enough, but not this year. Accept it and hopefully we can use the year to develope some of the kids and structures and work out which players we can persist with moving forward.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: pew2 on May 24, 2025, 04:15:33 pm
for years we have been to SLOW like i said weeks ago we need 3 Chris yarran in the side (before the trouble )
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: LordLucifer on May 24, 2025, 04:24:17 pm
Got home too late to watch the game live, may not bother watching it on Kayo now.
White, Carroll, Binns, Young, McGovern & Curnow - zero tackles between them.
McKay went goal-less.
First gamer O'Farrell had 9 disposals as did Motlop & Acres, however, he had more than Young, Durdin & Binns did.
Looks like we had some complete passengers & others who just didn't apply themselves enough.
We have the bye next week (based on current form, we may still lose this one) but the next three after that are Essendon, West Coast & North Melbourne which we would be expected to win.
Thing is, it's all well & good to dine out on the cellar dwellers, its taking wins from teams like GWS who are genuinely in the hunt that truly counts.
I've said it before but I'll say it again, most of this current group of players are frauds and will never take us anywhere. We are at absolute best, a mid-table team who will be of occassional nuisance value but nothing more.
Swing the bloody axe at season's end, I've had enough of this crape.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 24, 2025, 04:36:08 pm
Two weeks in a row we lose to a team well below their best with many top liners missing.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: shawny on May 24, 2025, 04:37:35 pm
I said it at round 4 it was season over and it well and truely is now. We are a club that is poorly coached have yesterdays strategies by line coaches that would not get a gig in any other team yet we roll with them year after year after year despite there being no progress at all.
How many years do we say how poor our kick ins are or how poor our kicking into F50 is or just plain dumb decision making that real deal well coached structures sides seldom make the dumb mistakes we cough up goals every week. Good teams lose games but not the same way every time
Our coaching and list management needs not just a tweak but a massive overhaul a mini rebuild if you like and i hope Mr Wright has the gonads to do it cause without massive change we will be all bark and no bite for another decade.
Voss has had 4 years with a list in their prime - change is needed now folks with coaches and major list changes.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Lods on May 24, 2025, 04:38:45 pm
One of the problems we face is that our very best half dozen or so aren't getting any younger, and many of them are starting to show a bit of wear and tear.
We're criticising some of them for not showing total effort, but what we're seeing may be all they're capable of at the moment.
Just watching the group I'm starting to have a few questions regarding things like-
Are they all at the same level in terms of commitment? Is there currently a bit of a divide amongst the group? Has the moving on of some players caused a bit of friction? Are they fully on board with the coaches (all of them) messaging and expectations? Are they capable of performing to those expectations? Are we still playing injured players?
Even though we're still a possibility of finals it's getting further away, and unless there was a massive turnaround, we would just be making up numbers anyway. If we don't make it that's a definite step backwards. We (rightly) were able to play the injury card last year. I doubt we'll be convincing trotting it out again.
'Backwards to go forward' isn't necessarily a bad thing, but in football world it's always a risky strategy. It has to be built on a strong foundation too, and our foundations are starting to develop a few cracks. We don't need band-aid solutions like "cabin in the woods" meetings. We need strong, united commitment, where effort and intensity are non-negotiables.
In the end it might be that this group isn't going to go much further. It may be that the make-up of this side just doesn't cut it, and options for shaking that up are limited unless we roll the dice on a couple of our 'star' players. Accepting that and making the necessary changes may be the best way forward.
The microscope will be on us again this week. Pressure will just keep increasing in the second half of the year if there is no improvement. Some of us can see the merits in holding the line, but I think we'd all accept that there are many things not working at the moment. Heaven forbid we go down the 'nuclear' rebuild path ever again, but we certainly look like we need some substantial renovations.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: IvanAwfulbigone on May 24, 2025, 05:04:02 pm
Short of a miracle, it's another year in the count towards a 3rd decade.
Correction: 4th decade.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: BluePhantom on May 24, 2025, 05:07:14 pm
Bad luck boys, better luck next week. We'll get them next time...
Well, that's what they'll all get told.
If things go well I'll have 25 years left and going on the last 25 years I'm not holding out any hope of seeing a premiership. Meanwhile in that time the Hawks will win their standard 5, the Filth will get 3 and the Bummers will probably do a threepeat.
By that time no one will be around who can remember our glory days so we'll become the Darwin Blues.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: LoveNavy on May 24, 2025, 05:24:48 pm
for years we have been to SLOW like i said weeks ago we need 3 Chris yarran in the side (before the trouble )
I agree with this - every team knows that if they are able to get the ball outside a contest and spread we simply can’t keep pace, exacerbated by our slow (and often poor) game plan/decision making.
I’ve never seen a slower small forward brigade and our wings and half backs are also so slow.
I’d be seriously considering trading/delisting 15+ including a selection of our more highly rated players to get some trade currency to get some balance through the list.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: crashlander on May 24, 2025, 05:28:34 pm
Short of a miracle, it's another year in the count towards a 3rd decade.
Correction: 4th decade.
To be honest, I can't see us winning a premiership while I live. I'm 64. There isn't the desire. There isn't the skill. There isn't the game plan. Our list isn't one that is going to challenge. We don't stop the oppositions' better players; we play them into form.
We are irrelevant. I never thought I'd be writing that, but it is accurate at the moment.
We're much better than we were not that long ago, but we've managed to get into the pack in the middle. That looks like as far as we'll get in this cycle. We need to learn and move on or we'll spend another cycle ending up nowhere.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 24, 2025, 05:29:58 pm
At this rate, TDK will see at flag a StKilda before we do at Carlton.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Baggers on May 24, 2025, 05:30:55 pm
We've addressed the inconsistency issue: we lost all four quarter today - consistency. Further evidence of being consistent: failed again to capitalize (or even look like it after qtr time) on forward entries. ::)
Our game plan is successful in that we aim to make it difficult to score against us. Opposition coaches and pundits applaud this aspect of our game. Unfortunately there seems no clear identity or plan to be winners. We talked more about the reality of losing at the beginning of the season... a self fulfilling prophecy.
Listening to Vossy talk about us and our issues before and after the game I was left wondering what planet he was on. Rainbows and sunshine. He does excel at word salads filled with positives. A reality free zone.
When the heat is dialled up we have a number of blokes who can't handle it. No names, no pack-drill. Blokes I do trust when the heat comes: JSOS, O Hollands, Cerra, Cripps, Acres, Doc (welcome back to form, champ), Weiters (not a great day, today), Newman, Cincotta and Lord (this kid is a pearl).
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: cookie2 on May 24, 2025, 05:33:41 pm
Bad luck boys, better luck next week. We'll get them next time...
Well, that's what they'll all get told.
If things go well I'll have 25 years left and going on the last 25 years I'm not holding out any hope of seeing a premiership. Meanwhile in that time the Hawks will win their standard 5, the Filth will get 3 and the Bummers will probably do a threepeat.
By that time no one will be around who can remember our glory days so we'll become the Darwin Blues.
At my age I’m definitely looking down the barrel of never seeing another Blue flag. This is now more of a probability than a possibility. 🏆?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Blue Moon on May 24, 2025, 05:33:50 pm
Same old rubbish.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: crashlander on May 24, 2025, 05:35:49 pm
At the moment Acres and Weitering are not close to being fit. Weitering is struggling and really needs a rest. If Acres isn't going to get better, then he needs to sent to surgery, and prepared for next year. Better do it now than wait until he can't be replaced.
Not sure that this is the draft to make huge changes, but it is the one we're stuck with.
Mitch McGovern is struggling. We can't carry him at the moment. I'm not sure what his future is, but he is making mistakes that cost us goals. He leads to competition in this area.
Doc played well today: he, at least, wasn't embarrassed. But he is nearer the end than the beginning.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: rocky on May 24, 2025, 05:42:39 pm
A couple of positives from today, because there's just way to many negatives; 1. Doc's best game for the year. 2. O'Farrell debut was pretty good I thought 3. Lord continues to show something. Hopefully he continues 4. I reckon Carroll has shown enough to get an extension 5. Motlop really looks like he's turned the corner and could be the dangerous small forward we've been looking for (pffffffft, this last one was a p155 take. I couldn't help myself!)
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Professer E on May 24, 2025, 05:43:11 pm
Our contest oriented midfield had their asses handed to them by a second string outfit - AGAIN. Game set match.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Micky0 on May 24, 2025, 06:02:07 pm
Got home too late to watch the game live, may not bother watching it on Kayo now.
White, Carroll, Binns, Young, McGovern & Curnow - zero tackles between them.
McKay went goal-less.
First gamer O'Farrell had 9 disposals as did Motlop & Acres, however, he had more than Young, Durdin & Binns did.
Firstly - go ahead and watch the replay. I’m interested to know your thoughts after viewing it.
Secondly, White, Carroll and Binns have a handful of games between them. White was lively and worked hard. Binns was only subbed on in the 4th. Carroll played well I thought / smart kicking generally.
MCG will be the death of me, for every amazing thing he may do, he does an equally stupid thing. For an experienced player this is unacceptable and imo he should be let go. Unreliable.
Charlie. I don’t know. I wasn’t at the game. Is he getting absolutely smashed all the time so doesnt have the stamina to work hard off the ball? Or he’s unfit? Frankly it looked like he didn’t gaf After quarter time.
McKay was good around the ground and in the centre - he gets a pass for his goalless turn.
Durds - not sure what happens there.
TDK did f all. This is a slow painful good bye now.
IMO Cripps Hewitt Walsh try and do too much and get caught. It’s infuriating. BUT they don’t trust their teammates.
Ollie works hard.
Dunno something is not right with this group / there doesn’t seem to be much camaraderie. They don’t work hard for each other - No Shepparding, no smashing into the opp to help their teammate get away. Nothing. Individual.
I like Vossy and what would I know if it’s coaching or not but ffs can we please for the love of all things stop with the bombing it in and start with using our brains!?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Micky0 on May 24, 2025, 06:03:15 pm
And let’s be honest we were lucky to limp into finals last year and dealt with appropriately.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 24, 2025, 06:10:02 pm
And let’s be honest we were lucky to limp into finals last year and dealt with appropriately.
Same thing will happen this year if we fall in, we need a list reset and re-equip the coach with some players who can play the modern game and stand up to the physicality that comes with the extra emphasis on being able to lay tackles and stand up in them when tackled.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: laj on May 24, 2025, 06:55:14 pm
To be honest, I can't see us winning a premiership while I live. I'm 64. There isn't the desire. There isn't the skill. There isn't the game plan. Our list isn't one that is going to challenge. We don't stop the oppositions' better players; we play them into form.
We are irrelevant. I never thought I'd be writing that, but it is accurate at the moment.
We're much better than we were not that long ago, but we've managed to get into the pack in the middle. That looks like as far as we'll get in this cycle. We need to learn and move on or we'll spend another cycle ending up nowhere.
I've at least seen 8 flags so been lucky in that regard, but it is younger Blues supporters that have seen nothing that I feel sorry for.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: pinot on May 24, 2025, 06:57:45 pm
Just can't close out games - efficiency inside 50 was really poor again. It is now 43% efficiency which is bottom four. Inside 50s continue to be good....cant depend on Harry + Charlie kicking 5-6 goals between them .. need goals from smalls as well Ah Chee and Cameron kicked 7 goals between them. If we don't clean up that efficiency inside 50 then no finals for this year.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 24, 2025, 07:42:25 pm
MCG will be the death of me, for every amazing thing he may do, he does an equally stupid thing. For an experienced player this is unacceptable and imo he should be let go. Unreliable. AGREE UNACCEPTABLE FROM AN EXPERIENCED SENIOR PLAYER.
Charlie. I don’t know. I wasn’t at the game. Is he getting absolutely smashed all the time so doesnt have the stamina to work hard off the ball? Or he’s unfit? Frankly it looked like he didn’t gaf After quarter time. NOT THE FIRST TIME, HASNT GAF ALL YEAR.
TDK did f all. This is a slow painful good bye now. AGREE, GOT A TOUCH UP TODAY
IMO Cripps Hewitt Walsh try and do too much and get caught. It’s infuriating. BUT they don’t trust their teammates. AGREE. CRIPPS BURNT OLLIE IN BETTER POSITION A COUPLE OF TIME. ONE OF HIS STUPID BOMBS INTO THE FWD HAD THE COMMENTATORS SUGGESTING THATS POOR BECAUSE THAT RUBS OFF ON THE YOUNG KIDS. HE IS NOT QUICK YET TRIES TO DO TOO MUCH AND GETS CAUGHT TOO OFTEN. "A MAN GOTS TO KNOW HIS LIMITATIONS"
Dunno something is not right with this group / there doesn’t seem to be much camaraderie. They don’t work hard for each other - No Shepparding, no smashing into the opp to help their teammate get away. Nothing. Individual.AGREE I like Vossy and what would I know if it’s coaching or not but ffs can we please for the love of all things stop with the bombing it in and start with using our brains!? IF VOSS/RUSSELL ARE TELLING THEM TO DO THOSE STUPID, FUTILE, LOW % BOMBS INTO THE FWD LINE, THEY CAN GO TOMORROW (I PERSONALLY DOUBT IT THEY ARE BUT I CANNOT BE CERTAIN).
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: laj on May 24, 2025, 08:54:48 pm
Need to try something with this smaller forward caper. Like we did with Williams, and even Cincotta the last time he was around, see if we can find a half back who might go well forward. Cincotta bot only did a good job as a defensive forward, he kicked some goals too. As Cripps gets older I'd have him forward more and more. Remember how well the like of Ricciuto, Brad Johnson, Barleett, Leigh Matthews and currently Dangerfield have good when put forward late in their careers. At Cripps' height he and ability to get over he'd be a tough match up. We need to throw things aroun d. Look forward to watch Jagga Smith and Cooper Lord working together next year.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: LordLucifer on May 24, 2025, 09:44:06 pm
To be honest, I can't see us winning a premiership while I live. I'm 64. There isn't the desire. There isn't the skill. There isn't the game plan. Our list isn't one that is going to challenge. We don't stop the oppositions' better players; we play them into form.
We are irrelevant. I never thought I'd be writing that, but it is accurate at the moment.
We're much better than we were not that long ago, but we've managed to get into the pack in the middle. That looks like as far as we'll get in this cycle. We need to learn and move on or we'll spend another cycle ending up nowhere.
Only 64 .......... got you covered there young fella. O:-)
Thing is, we may be old coots but between us, we have seen 8 flags in our lifetime, and the one thing we always saw with those premierships was as you so correctly pointed out, there was "desire".
We took no sh1t from anybody and all of our players played every game like their life depended on it. Not these days, they galavant around safe in the knowledge that they are going to be extremely well paid regardless of the result.
Unless the club is given a clean-out via a "culture enema", we will firmly become the new St. Kilda, content to accept mediocrity.
1995 ......... I had just moved to Sydney, it is a very long time ago now.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Lods on May 24, 2025, 09:53:17 pm
Of the more established group...(so take out Lord.) Who is actually playing better this year than last year?
I've got Hewett, Maybe O Hollands. perhaps Cerra Silvagni and Docherty (I know ;) )
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: PaulP on May 24, 2025, 10:13:26 pm
14 of our 16 flags came from a time when the competition was Vic only and had 12 teams or less. Players typically had full time jobs and Carlton had wealthy patrons who could attract good players to the club. I would suggest that our issues post 2000 have more to do with an inability or unwillingness to accept that the corporate, hire and fire mentality (which IMO is mistakenly taken as a sign of ruthlessness) has not been tenable for several decades, and those with deep pockets who want to affect decisions but evade accountability, and buy their way out of trouble have continued to impose themselves on the club for too long, causing instability and stalling forward progress.
It should come as little surprise that the two clubs who have suffered the most precipitous decline since their successful VFL days are Essendon and Carlton. It should come as little surprise that the two clubs who have the largest collection of wealthy unaccountable benefactors who treat the club as a playground for factional fighting and dominance, are Essendon and Carlton. And it should come as little surprise that the two clubs who have been busted for large scale cheating in order to get ahead are Essendon and Carlton.
So yes, there are cultural issues, but IMO they have little to do with accepting mediocrity or being insufficiently ruthless.
The club is making good progress IMO towards a proper, national AFL club, and not just a big fish in a small pond, who can't compete effectively because the rules have changed. But those systems that are required to be at the top level (recruiting, development, management, culture etc.) are taking longer to come together than we would like.
The 70's and 80's are long gone, and they're not coming back. We need to be 100% looking forward, not looking back.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 24, 2025, 10:14:41 pm
Of the more established group...(so take out Lord.) Who is actually playing better this year than last year?
I've got Hewett, Maybe O Hollands. perhaps Cerra Silvagni and Docherty (I know ;) )
Funny you mention this, I had a look at the list and rated them either positive (better, improved), negative (gone backwards, poor form), neutral (same same). I had 12 positive, 21 negative, 11 neutral. +ve's Silvagni Ollie Hollands Cerra De Koning Lucas Camporeale O'Farrell Weitering Haynes Hewett Carroll Lord White (with the debutants, I rated them positive because I felt they got into the side, didn't look lost at the level and had some impact.
-ve's Lachlan Motlop Williams McKay McGovern Acres Fantasia Docherty Kemp Walsh Durdin Elijah Hollands Newman Binns Pittonet Curnow Boyd Cincotta Saad Moir Evans. So reasoning for the above is injured and needed, not providing the output they should or developed like they should have. The injury one might seem unfair but that's how I see it. Curnow and McKay are the two obvious ones who I think are not delivering anywhere near where they should be (albeit for different reasons).
Neutral Smith Fogarty Cripps Ben Camporeale Charleston Lemmey Young Monahan Wilson O'Keefe Duffy. Reasoning for the above is haven't played 1s yet (through injury or readiness), they are just performing like they always have (not better not worse) or we just dont know enough about them to judge.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Thryleon on May 24, 2025, 10:26:38 pm
Of the more established group...(so take out Lord.) Who is actually playing better this year than last year?
I've got Hewett, Maybe O Hollands. perhaps Cerra Silvagni and Docherty (I know ;) )
thats why i said this is our 2012.
Our fortunes would look very different with the same team in form and fit. For mine, we look like a team that has had a poor pre season and the continuous breakdowns are not helping.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 24, 2025, 10:30:45 pm
Swans and GWS both have big injury lists. We have no excuses...
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: shawny on May 24, 2025, 11:08:53 pm
Swans and GWS both have big injury lists. We have no excuses...
exactly. look at the pies tonight. we would of been smashed and most supporters would be saying yeah but forget that game as we had so many out. they adjust find a way and all play their role and get it done.
We are happy with mediocrity and fall back on injury or bad luck excuses year after year. all while the teams that win flags grit their teeth and simply find ways to adjust and get it done. They are less affected by losing a soldier because they dont rely on a handful of stars they are system based teams one goes out they have another who knows their role and comes in
Until we accept we are miles off it and are willing to massive changes in both the list and also all levels of coaching we will not amount to anything.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Professer E on May 24, 2025, 11:10:48 pm
As supporters we're happy to accept list changes and coaching changes....but the club seems very resistant to change. We need to become a system based not personnel based club on game day.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Thryleon on May 24, 2025, 11:15:18 pm
I dont think a fit list with a 10 man injury list is in the same conversation as an unfit list with a 10 man injury list that should be closer to 25.
There's a critical mass that gets hit. We hit about round 18 last season and on current evidence are not getting fitter.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: pinot on May 24, 2025, 11:20:37 pm
They all seem match fit to me - just lack the hunger and desire to win. or down on confidence in a big way.
Small forwards not finishing their work probably letting down the rest of the group as they do bust a gut and get it forward relentlessly.
Small forward set up needs an overhaul after the bye.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 24, 2025, 11:27:58 pm
Of the more established group...(so take out Lord.) Who is actually playing better this year than last year?
I've got Hewett, Maybe O Hollands. perhaps Cerra Silvagni and Docherty (I know ;) )
thats why i said this is our 2012.
Our fortunes would look very different with the same team in form and fit. For mine, we look like a team that has had a poor pre season and the continuous breakdowns are not helping.
I guess the concern for me is... I look at our best players. Fully fit they're a pretty talented lot. Will they be better in 2026?
Cripps-not near his form of his Brownlow seasons. Curnow- Poor in follow ups after the initial contest is lost. It's not a new thing either. Is it injury related? Can he bend over?? Walsh-Inconsistent. I suspect (many do) he's carrying a chronic injury De Koning- Off the boil in recent weeks. Has a big decision ahead of him. Weitering-Has carried the backline for years. Is it starting to take a toll. Silvagni-Having a bad run with injuries in recent years. McKay-Form is a bit erratic at the moment. Docherty-Has taken him a while to get back up to speed, but best behind him and it may be his last season.
Then we have a group of mid tier players-Saad, Haynes, McGovern, Hewett etc who are moving into the twilight part of their careers.
If they all hit form next year we'll be in much better shape. But they will all be another year older next season. The reality is many may have reached their peak and be on a downward slide. Chances of them being better is probably a fifty-fifty. Chances of them 'all' being better is 'very slim'
What do we have coming through? A few show promise...but it's doubtful they wil be influential in the next two years.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Thryleon on May 25, 2025, 09:36:08 am
@lods, I dont have the answers, but its fair to say that guys like Williams will never be fit. The rest let's see come end of season where they're at.
For mine, I've written off the year. Cooper Lord has emerged. Will white is handy. Cowan was looking great until hamstrings. Carroll is still a bit iffy but uses it well. Boyd is showing why we like him but unfortunately has struggled with fitness and form.
Both hollands boys are good. One has some mental health issues that could linger. Who knows.
Its not all doom and gloom. HOF and jsos have shown maybe we aren't all at sea key position wise, and who knows what happens with Kemp post Achilles?
Ultimately you need a but of luck and injuries do happen but we seem to have the opposite of luck. Old man dangerflog has had a light hamstring strain at age 35, whilst we seem to get chronic injuries to players in their 20's that see them struggle all season.
That maybe won't turn. Who knows but I'm not willing to throw the baby out either the bathwater and trade them all. Jarrad Waite was similar with us, went to north and became a consistent performer after years of being a yo yo with injury with us.
Keep doing things in a measured way. We are going to organically go backwards this year. Hopefully we will organically improve without the big moves and get a bit luckier with our fitness. Then all we need is the same luck with additions to the list and we'll be fine and potentially having one down year this year with a calculated gamble on improving next year. If we hold the line and focus on structure, brand and development that will hold us in good stead without the personnell woes. End of year keep adding to the bottome end of the list for the impending transition and then gamble with the older types coming good.
They come good we win a flag maybe. They dont we stay mid pack and then bank salary cap for when the youngsters need supplementing.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Lods on May 25, 2025, 09:46:16 am
At the moment Acres and Weitering are not close to being fit. Weitering is struggling and really needs a rest. If Acres isn't going to get better, then he needs to sent to surgery, and prepared for next year. Better do it now than wait until he can't be replaced.
Not sure that this is the draft to make huge changes, but it is the one we're stuck with.
Mitch McGovern is struggling. We can't carry him at the moment. I'm not sure what his future is, but he is making mistakes that cost us goals. He leads to competition in this area.
Doc played well today: he, at least, wasn't embarrassed. But he is nearer the end than the beginning.
Least effective game I have seen from Weitering.
Easily the best contribution from Docherty this year.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: PaulP on May 25, 2025, 09:52:14 am
I’m pretty sure Voss, the coaches and the players know exactly what is wrong and where the game is breaking down, but finding a solution is clearly taking longer than we would like.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Lods on May 25, 2025, 10:17:23 am
It's simple Defensive forwards to the backline. Attacking defenders to the forward line :D :D
Seriously though...the forward structure doesn't seem to change much despite the obvious breakdown. What are they trying differently?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 25, 2025, 10:35:01 am
At the moment Acres and Weitering are not close to being fit. Weitering is struggling and really needs a rest. If Acres isn't going to get better, then he needs to sent to surgery, and prepared for next year. Better do it now than wait until he can't be replaced.
Not sure that this is the draft to make huge changes, but it is the one we're stuck with.
Mitch McGovern is struggling. We can't carry him at the moment. I'm not sure what his future is, but he is making mistakes that cost us goals. He leads to competition in this area.
Doc played well today: he, at least, wasn't embarrassed. But he is nearer the end than the beginning.
Least effective game I have seen from Weitering.
Easily the best contribution from Docherty this year.
Its like the fingers in the holes in the dyke, plug one another appears.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: cookie2 on May 25, 2025, 10:52:13 am
Easily the best contribution from Docherty this year.
Its like the fingers in the holes in the dyke, plug one another appears.
The fingers aren’t the problem, the dyke is flawed.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: LP on May 25, 2025, 11:04:53 am
Watching our blokes at the end of the 1st-Qtr yesterday, there was either a bunching of them with illness, unfit or carrying injuries.
I thought in no particular order, TDK, Cripps, Walsh, Saad, Curnow, Acres and Weitering all had problems, some looked like they were about to throw up and it was only just the end of the 1st-Qtr.
Of those TDK I sort of understand, we cooked his goose, he'll barely recover again this season without some significant respite, more than likely he'll break down at some stage. Players aren't just a mathematical statistic, you can't just turn the dial up more, they are a rare and finite resource with limited capability.
But in general I can't make sense of it, because regardless of the tactics, in the previous couple of seasons and often since the pandemic we had a trend to frequently finish games strongly for a noble loss, our problem was not finishing strongly, sometimes it was often not getting ahead on the scoreboard before the final siren, or being defeated in a last gasp roll of the dice like the Filth's.
Now we are done by 3/4-time and being run-over, to me it doesn't look like 2025 is a superior fitness regime, I suspect eventually someone is going to the wall over that decision.
Do we look stronger, fitter, more durable, less injury prone, not to me, at least not right now.
I realise we need patience with a new fitness regime, but 3 months, 6 months, it's enough, I think it's more than enough!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Baggers on May 25, 2025, 12:19:14 pm
Poor reward for effort (scoreboard) and you get de-motivation. Symptoms of de-motivation: Go into your shell - seem injured/slow/appear unsure/unfit; become reactive, protect own patch, panicky, selfish; even appear to lack mental strength; discipline and leadership appear suspect or even weak.
Early in games, so much seems good, however, when oppo responds with heat/taking away advantages, the brittle part of our game snaps, or at best, labours. An obvious brittle part of our game (plan) is the connection to forward line/operation of forward line. Irrefutable data back this up. Stop cherry picking positives for the media and us mug members and supporters, we are no longer are buying it. Fake positivity is denialism with a convincingly lovely smile, disguising a lack of courage to face real issues (oh, no, not negativity!!!!).
If it's not the forward line connection and execution, then we're right royally rooted.
Buck stops with Lloyd and Voss. You've given us 3 1/2 years of this impressive ordinariness. Ladder doesn't lie. Fix it or fck off. There are seemingly better senior coaches and heads of football available.
Oh, and to the CEO/CFC Board... you buggers are presiding over this failure to deliver on potential. Fix it or fck off.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 25, 2025, 03:41:23 pm
58 Inside50s to 47 favouring us but only 40% efficiency I50....is it connection from the mids being poor or our forwards letting us down? We took 8 marks inside 50 to GWS 14...where were our two key forwards who are meant to be the best in the business as a combo?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Baggers on May 25, 2025, 04:38:16 pm
58 Inside50s to 47 favouring us but only 40% efficiency I50....is it connection from the mids being poor or our forwards letting us down? We took 8 marks inside 50 to GWS 14...where were our two key forwards who are meant to be the best in the business as a combo?
If it was a one off, EB1, you wouldn't worry too much... but this is endemic, has been for yonks.
I noticed on YouTube today that the headline quote from A Clarkson after their defeat by Rottingwood, "Good Sides Hurt You On The Scoreboard." Says it all.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: pinot on May 25, 2025, 06:28:23 pm
This team is at its peak and Voss hasnt managed to drill them after four years.
So when are they going to get drilled after 6-8 10 years?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Baggers on May 25, 2025, 06:51:56 pm
Maybe they are drilled perfectly and the players are simply not good enough.
A genius coach cannot get a bunch of c-graders to perform at an a-grade level.
A brownlow medalist 2 x coleman medalist 6 x All Australians
Its not the list.
That covers, what, 6 players. What about the other 40 on the list? Forget that, what about the other 14 in the team? Lets not go overboard, lets simply look at the other 4 forwards. Out of them, how many get a game in another team?
Parts of the list are strong......very strong.....parts of the list are not. We've pulled a few rabbits out of hats to somewhat potentially solve our CHB issue which was IMO our biggest need. Our next biggest need IMO is elite ball users from HB to HF. This is where we are getting let down. How many from your list above fit that category?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: pinot on May 25, 2025, 08:23:04 pm
A brownlow medalist 2 x coleman medalist 6 x All Australians
Its not the list.
That covers, what, 6 players. What about the other 40 on the list? Forget that, what about the other 14 in the team? Lets not go overboard, lets simply look at the other 4 forwards. Out of them, how many get a game in another team?
Parts of the list are strong......very strong.....parts of the list are not. We've pulled a few rabbits out of hats to somewhat potentially solve our CHB issue which was IMO our biggest need. Our next biggest need IMO is elite ball users from HB to HF. This is where we are getting let down. How many from your list above fit that category?
That covers, what, 6 players. What about the other 40 on the list? Forget that, what about the other 14 in the team? Lets not go overboard, lets simply look at the other 4 forwards. Out of them, how many get a game in another team?
Parts of the list are strong......very strong.....parts of the list are not. We've pulled a few rabbits out of hats to somewhat potentially solve our CHB issue which was IMO our biggest need. Our next biggest need IMO is elite ball users from HB to HF. This is where we are getting let down. How many from your list above fit that category?
58 Inside50s to 47 favouring us but only 40% efficiency I50....is it connection from the mids being poor or our forwards letting us down? We took 8 marks inside 50 to GWS 14...where were our two key forwards who are meant to be the best in the business as a combo?
We move it that slowly that we never get a chance to kick it into an open forward line. The games we are up and going getting it in quickly our skills are suddenly better and our inside 50s are suddenly more efficient. We seem to save those games for Geelong....lol. The game last year against Geelong, about 2 games before it all went pear shaped, you've never seen a side move the ball better, and we crushed them. Our biggest issue is we have an attitude that stinks. 2023 proved that. We were putrid in the extreme until the pow wow at Ed's place. Within one game we were superstars, won the next 10 and made a PF. If we weren't so damn lazy in the first half of 2023 we'd have won the flag. Attitude is everything. Right now it is s hit. List is similar to 2023.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Lods on May 25, 2025, 09:41:06 pm
Just on Harry and Charlie We look at them as this dynamic duo The twin towers...a deadly combination They've been with us for 9 seasons. How many of those 9 have been 'standout' seasons for each player. More importantly how many of those 9 have seen both players in 'standout' form together.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: LP on May 25, 2025, 10:04:04 pm
We deliver it to them (the KPFs) horribly and monotonously.
I saw Cripps run through the HFF and look inboard to OH yesterday, OH in the clear running into F50 through CHF and probably 20m away from any opponent while in the corridor, and Cripps turned away, carried on and kicked to a contest in the pocket.
I get it. Cripps is thinking if he misses OH it's a certain goal at the other end, because we can't stop them if I turn it over in the corridor, but that kick to OH was the avenue to goal, not the contest in the pocket.
We have to get the fundamentals right, pick the right targets and hit them, we won't get better at execution by avoiding the risks.
We don't help Charlie and Harry by ignoring players in better positions in the open.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 25, 2025, 10:34:17 pm
Footy Furnace crew bagged our system and kicking going forward which is nothing new, but blamed it on coaching where to kick and said it's it's a skill we have not fixed for 2 years with Bartel in a clip from back then identifying our poor entries. So that's the coach in the gun but also identified our players not being on the same page and being selfish instead of looking for better options. There was a list of our worst poor kicking players, players who are down this season and the view that our premiership window is closing especially if TDK leaves.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: kruddler on May 25, 2025, 10:34:35 pm
That covers, what, 6 players. What about the other 40 on the list? Forget that, what about the other 14 in the team? Lets not go overboard, lets simply look at the other 4 forwards. Out of them, how many get a game in another team?
Parts of the list are strong......very strong.....parts of the list are not. We've pulled a few rabbits out of hats to somewhat potentially solve our CHB issue which was IMO our biggest need. Our next biggest need IMO is elite ball users from HB to HF. This is where we are getting let down. How many from your list above fit that category?
Then you have O + E Hollands, Lord, White, Fogarty, Cincotta, Boyd.
Its not the talent of the players - its the coach.
There is more than enough talent on the list. Kemp, Smith, Newman not included...
You didn't answer the question though, and your names proved it.
Which forwards besides our 2 tall forwards get a game in another decent side?
I just got through explaining this in another thread. Talent kn the list and talent jn the side are 2 different things. Talent in position is another that is conveniently overlooked as well.
Re forwards.... Williams and elijah would be in most people's sides. Both unavailable. Probably throw in kemp as well. That's 3 starting forwards unavailable. Some would argue cottrell there, making 4.
In any event, we have motlop, durdin, white and fogarty there currently. White was overlooked by everyone. Fogarty is a former discard. Then we have motlop and durdin.
Which teams are saying, yep, I'll add them to my side tomorrow? Nobody inside the 8!
So do we have talent in that area? Do we have FIT talent in that area?
It's why we've added fantasia and Evans to our list to help that area (both vying for 1st player delisted at years end imo)
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: kruddler on May 25, 2025, 10:42:24 pm
Footy Furnace crew bagged our system and kicking going forward which is nothing new, but blamed it on coaching where to kick and said it's it's a skill we have not fixed for 2 years with Bartel in a clip from back then identifying our poor entries. So that's the coach in the gun but also identified our players not being on the same page and being selfish instead of looking for better options. There was a list of our worst poor kicking players, players who are down this season and the view that our premiership window is closing especially if TDK leaves.
There are 2 ways to look at this and the media only ever focusses on 1.
#1 As mentioned, kicking to forwards is poor. General skill level on the outside is poor.
#2 Not talked about is what we hope to achieve with those kicks. You touched on it with cripps not wanting ro be burnt the other way. We go long to the pocket to get the ball locked into our forwardline. When we go there, the ball is spoiled over the line for a throwin. We get time to settle our defence, build the wall and fight for the stoppage in our forwardline. We are good at stoppages and back ourselves to keep it there and let it out with the umpire taking it back to the middle after a goal.
Like it or not, this is how we play. This is how we keep the opposition in check with low scores. Team defence. Dare I say it, but it's similar to Malthouses strategy of long down the line. Keep the ball away from areas that can hurt you - the corridor.
Or course if we had some better skilled mids and better skilled forwards, we wouldn't need to play so safe....but we have what we have.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: tonyo on May 26, 2025, 07:20:58 am
I don't think it's just the kicking of our mids into the forward line, you also need to consider what sort of options the forwards are giving them. Charlie and Harry's main play is to point one hand in the air like the Statue of Liberty and wrestle - hardly a commanding presence. They've become accustomed to slow entry and seem to almost have given up providing regular leads. Charlie in particular is looking pretty lazy of late - if he doesn't get the ball, he basically gives up.
Our small forwards are dumb - they offer leads when they're too slow to get ahead of their opponent, and they're not all that strong overhead anyway, and in the end they are not underneath the pack where they should be.
Of course, it would help if our F50 entries didn't mostly consist of slow-entry 50m kicks which defenders just love....... oh for some half backs and outside mids who can run, bounce and kick......
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: LP on May 26, 2025, 07:46:11 am
Always depending on scoring from stoppages is mentally and physically draining, sometimes we need the easy shot on goal.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Professer E on May 26, 2025, 07:50:42 am
As a heap of intelligent opinions suggest above, there's a lot of issues. List make up, player availability, attitude, skill level, coaching and game plan. Equals no realistic premiership opportunity for a very long time.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Lods on May 26, 2025, 09:14:28 am
As a heap of intelligent opinions suggest above, there's a lot of issues. List make up, player availability, attitude, skill level, coaching and game plan. Equals no realistic premiership opportunity for a very long time.
You need all of these things 'gelling' to be a successful club. We seem to be very disjointed in a lot of these areas (not on the same page) Players and coaches can take some responsiblity, but the ones chiefly responsible for creating that professional environment are probably at the next level up. There may be a 'storm' coming in the form of Graham Wright. While stability may be the preferred method going forward, it may need a bit of a shake-up in the short term.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Milhanna13 on May 26, 2025, 09:25:02 am
Swans and GWS both have big injury lists. We have no excuses...
Yeah, we do struggle with adversity, and dont win those games with the big outs, like some other mobs do This is also the (what) 15th year in a row, that we have had poor "luck" with interrupted pre-seasons and injuries
But, to be glass half full - i know a lot of teams have 10 injuries, but look at the ones we have - JSOS - was proving to be one of our only great users of half back - Newy - ditto - Williams - our only potent goal kicking small forward - Cotters & Acres - our gut runners who provide a bit on the outside - Jager - some class and polish in the middle - Lij - can actually use it, going forward - Cincotta - would have been handy on Heeney last week and Greene this week - Charlie & Harry - both having interupted years - surely this is affecting them - Weeters - surely hurt this week - pretty self explanatory - Add to that Walsh (preseason) and Crippa (somehting not right) going at 90%, instead of 100%
They would all help a bit with our current weaknesses (and - I dont think Kennedy or Owies (or Stocker or Zac Fisher) would add that much to our current weaknesses - so, maybe the media can give that a rest)
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Thryleon on May 26, 2025, 09:32:49 am
George Hewett got the ball 17 times on the weekend. 4 kicks 13 handballs, and has been our best performer this season by the length of the flemington straight. 2 marks and 1 tackle.
I cant remember not noticing him so much in a game for a very long time.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: pinot on May 26, 2025, 10:44:03 am
four years under Voss to balance the list with small forward class. There is only one trade that makes sense - TDK pick if he goes + McKay to North Melbourne for Paul Curtis + 2nd round pick.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on May 26, 2025, 11:18:38 am
four years under Voss to balance the list with small forward class. There is only one trade that makes sense - TDK pick if he goes + McKay to North Melbourne for Paul Curtis + 2nd round pick.
They won't trade Curtis and he loves Clarko.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: madbluboy on May 26, 2025, 11:21:49 am
four years under Voss to balance the list with small forward class. There is only one trade that makes sense - TDK pick if he goes + McKay to North Melbourne for Paul Curtis + 2nd round pick.
Did you type that correctly?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Professer E on May 26, 2025, 11:52:01 am
Maybe if they threw McKercher or Sheezel in, otherwise give up the drugs mate
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: pertz on May 26, 2025, 02:54:42 pm
four years under Voss to balance the list with small forward class. There is only one trade that makes sense - TDK pick if he goes + McKay to North Melbourne for Paul Curtis + 2nd round pick.
I wouldn't be trading McKay. He is a very important player.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: PaulP on May 26, 2025, 03:04:23 pm
four years under Voss to balance the list with small forward class. There is only one trade that makes sense - TDK pick if he goes + McKay to North Melbourne for Paul Curtis + 2nd round pick.
I wouldn't be trading McKay. He is a very important player.
Im all for trading Harry, I think two tall key forwards isnt the go in modern footy and we need a class small forward and a class half back more. The times we have played with one key forward and an inbetween tall like Kemp in the other KP we have looked a bit slicker and more modern in our playing style. If TDK goes and either Harry or Sam Walsh are traded we might be able to reset quickly with the draft capital, Graeme Wright presided over the Grundy/Treloar trades and the Pies had a flag in 12 months time. Id want Wright in charge of any of these bigger trades both outgoing and incoming, time to roll the dice imho.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: pew2 on May 26, 2025, 03:27:30 pm
4 years under voss and nothing changed that is the scary part ,we were lucky to win those finals so gave us some hope and thats all it was HOPE , truth is our system and players aren't good enough simple, people forget 60 -0 against lions ,so pressure on Nick Austin and coaches .
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: laj on May 26, 2025, 03:33:09 pm
Swans and GWS both have big injury lists. We have no excuses...
Yeah, we do struggle with adversity, and dont win those games with the big outs, like some other mobs do This is also the (what) 15th year in a row, that we have had poor "luck" with interrupted pre-seasons and injuries
But, to be glass half full - i know a lot of teams have 10 injuries, but look at the ones we have - JSOS - was proving to be one of our only great users of half back - Newy - ditto - Williams - our only potent goal kicking small forward - Cotters & Acres - our gut runners who provide a bit on the outside - Jager - some class and polish in the middle - Lij - can actually use it, going forward - Cincotta - would have been handy on Heeney last week and Greene this week - Charlie & Harry - both having interupted years - surely this is affecting them - Weeters - surely hurt this week - pretty self explanatory - Add to that Walsh (preseason) and Crippa (somehting not right) going at 90%, instead of 100%
They would all help a bit with our current weaknesses (and - I dont think Kennedy or Owies (or Stocker or Zac Fisher) would add that much to our current weaknesses - so, maybe the media can give that a rest)
We used to win with big outs. We sat 2nd with 7 weeks to go last week and to that point the closest we had to a full best 23 was 7 out. Then it got worse from there. We just have a very poor attitude right now. That needs to sort as does our structure. As LP says, we are always trying to kick goals from stoppages, hard and draining work, rarely being able to kick the easy goal. That part is on coaching and the Match Committee.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: laj on May 26, 2025, 03:40:04 pm
4 years under voss and nothing changed that is the scary part ,we were lucky to win those finals so gave us some hope and thats all it was HOPE , truth is our system and players aren't good enough simple, people forget 60 -0 against lions ,so pressure on Nick Austin and coaches .
Attitude changed instantly after the pow wow at Ed's place. Then we won 10 in a row. Those finals wins were good ones as we were nearly cooked by then. That was our one chance to get a premiership if we didn't play in such poor, often lazy fashion the first half of 2023. The side is similar, structure definitely needs work though for the next step but attitude is everything, and that's the worst part. Without that, nothing else matters. May as well shuffle the deck chair on the Titanic. 2023 it changed overnight and changed the fortunes.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Baggers on May 26, 2025, 03:51:20 pm
Footy Furnace crew bagged our system and kicking going forward which is nothing new, but blamed it on coaching where to kick and said it's it's a skill we have not fixed for 2 years with Bartel in a clip from back then identifying our poor entries. So that's the coach in the gun but also identified our players not being on the same page and being selfish instead of looking for better options. There was a list of our worst poor kicking players, players who are down this season and the view that our premiership window is closing especially if TDK leaves.
Saw the same thing, EB1. Damning. When they showed Bartel identifying our present major issue... two years ago... it was just deflating. Why the fck can't or won't our present group of coaches see it too?
Let's throw another damning reality into the mix. Development. How many of our senior players have improved this year? The facts are embarrassing.
We know Vossy spent time with Ange P and took on board his advice that you stick hard to your plan. News flash, Vossy, Ange has deep experience with success and winning, so when he sticks to a plan it's because he has a winning template as strong reference. You don't. You seem to be making exactly the same mistakes you did at Brisvegas... how did that end up?
The real potential tragedy is that our serious talent is older and heading to retirement. Their window of opportunity is squeaking shut. What a perversion of justice if they don't get to taste deep finals success. Our system does not support winning. Time for pontification is over. Act. Change.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 26, 2025, 03:53:07 pm
Attitude changed instantly after the pow wow at Ed's place. Then we won 10 in a row. Those finals wins were good ones as we were nearly cooked by then. That was our one chance to get a premiership if we didn't play in such poor, often lazy fashion the first half of 2023. The side is similar, structure definitely needs work though for the next step but attitude is everything, and that's the worst part. Without that, nothing else matters. May as well shuffle the deck chair on the Titanic. 2023 it changed overnight and changed the fortunes.
You know after thinking about what I watched on Sat and watching Terry's (Blue Abroad) review, something didn't look right with the players. The attitude doesnt seem quite there and I wonder what's the cause? Is the TDK move and potential senior player move causing angst? Is the E Hollands situation worse than what we know? Ollie in particular looked flat as a tack from when he ran out. Dunno, could be me just jumping to conclusions based purely on what I perceive (think I see) with no inside knowledge whatsoever.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Lods on May 26, 2025, 04:40:58 pm
It's hard to know...Owies and Kennedy's departure may have had an effect on a few of their closest. Perhaps we're looking at certain players and their body language, and maybe seeing things that seem to indicate an issue... but we're putting our own slant on things because of our ladder position. I don't think we'll really know until the end of the year and we see more player movements. That's of course assuming no major breakdowns in the second half of the season.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: kruddler on May 26, 2025, 05:20:36 pm
four years under Voss to balance the list with small forward class. There is only one trade that makes sense - TDK pick if he goes + McKay to North Melbourne for Paul Curtis + 2nd round pick.
Don't give up your day job mate.
You are essentially saying TDK + Harry for Curtis and a 2nd rounder.
I wouldn't do that deal if it was just one of them. No way in hell its both of them.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: pinot on May 26, 2025, 07:40:39 pm
four years under Voss to balance the list with small forward class. There is only one trade that makes sense - TDK pick if he goes + McKay to North Melbourne for Paul Curtis + 2nd round pick.
Don't give up your day job mate.
You are essentially saying TDK + Harry for Curtis and a 2nd rounder.
I wouldn't do that deal if it was just one of them. No way in hell its both of them.
So what will you do? TDK's pick as it stands is Pick 8 and Melbourne want three first rounders for Pickett.
What will you do to make our forward line more unpredictable?... or just kick the can down the road as Voss has done.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Professer E on May 26, 2025, 07:55:37 pm
That would be the worst trade in history, even if the AFL survived 1000 years.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Baggers on May 26, 2025, 08:01:50 pm
You are essentially saying TDK + Harry for Curtis and a 2nd rounder.
I wouldn't do that deal if it was just one of them. No way in hell its both of them.
So what will you do? TDK's pick as it stands is Pick 8 and Melbourne want three first rounders for Pickett.
What will you do to make our forward line more unpredictable?... or just kick the can down the road as Voss has done.
It's a good question, K, from Fine Wine (Pinot). I'd be interested, also, to know what you would do with our long standing (years) poor forward connection and forward line efficiency to enable kicking more goals?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: kruddler on May 26, 2025, 08:26:24 pm
You are essentially saying TDK + Harry for Curtis and a 2nd rounder.
I wouldn't do that deal if it was just one of them. No way in hell its both of them.
So what will you do? TDK's pick as it stands is Pick 8 and Melbourne want three first rounders for Pickett.
What will you do to make our forward line more unpredictable?... or just kick the can down the road as Voss has done.
Melbourne can want 3 first rounders for Pickett. Nobody is going to pay it though. So thats a silly point to make.
I can say whatever i want to say and there is no right or wrong answer because i don't have any say it what the club does.
However, Tyson Gresham is an NGA player we have access too. There is the option to recruit Jade Gresham as well to unite the brothers. Thats 2 small forwards that wouldn't cost us much. Not sure what the bombers would want for him, but it wouldn't be too much i don't think. Certainly not multiple 1st rounders.
Of course, we could always dangle the McKay carrot in front of them to unite the brothers for them, that should get us a decent pick or 2 back as well.
Depends who you rate and what you want to give up.
Instead of TDK+McKay for Curtis. Give up McKay and get Gresham and another pick back.....and keep your TDK compo.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: pinot on May 26, 2025, 08:31:19 pm
an 18 year old will change our fortunes, will it and no one will pay pick 12 + 18 + future first for Kozzy Pickett... is just silly.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: kruddler on May 26, 2025, 08:42:47 pm
an 18 year old will change our fortunes, will it and no one will pay pick 12 + 18 + future first for Kozzy Pickett... is just silly.
Think you might want to reread what i wrote. There are 2 greshams being spoken about.
I know you have a long standing facination with small forwards, but we are not talking about Kozzy Pickett not Leigh Matthews, Kevin Bartlett or Dustin Martin FFS.
Nobody has every paid 3 first rounders for a small forward and the first person to do that will not have a job following that deal. Only time i can recall anyone trading 3 first rounders was west coast for Tim Kelly....at the time he was the biggest/best mid going around and he was only 25 at the time.
Back to small forwards, sure, he was 32 at the time, but we paid a future 4th to get Eddie Betts back from the crows. Eddie!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: laj on May 26, 2025, 08:46:19 pm
Looks like AFL 360 called us "The Lygon Street Butchers".
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: kruddler on May 26, 2025, 08:51:59 pm
Looks like AFL 360 called us "The Lygon Street Butchers".
Just watched that.
Talked about not being able to kick and showed some poor kicks. Doesn't delve into why. Talks about poor entry inside F50....showed 1 example of a miskick as proof we can't kick.
2 second analysis based on numbers, not game plan. Someone is always going to be 18th. Doesn't mean they can't kick.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Lods on May 27, 2025, 07:57:21 am
Stating the obvious.... ::) Lots are piling on. 'Drive by's' in some respects. They don't delve deeply in to reasons why some of these things are happening. (restrictive injuries) They certainly don't offer any solutions other than replacing players....which is easier said than done.
But mostly they aren't saying a lot different to what many of us are saying.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Lods on May 27, 2025, 08:03:24 am
I just saw and read a few more of these "drive bys". It's like they're parroting what we're saying. ::) These buggers are stealing 'our' material. ;D
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Baggers on May 27, 2025, 08:19:36 am
I just saw and read a few more of these "drive bys". It's like they're parroting what we're saying. ::) These buggers are stealing 'our' material. ;D
It's like watching a slow-motion train wobbling all over the tracks, with other trains shooting past. Will it run off the rails completely, or regain stability... how did it develop this potentially disastrous wobble? Unfortunately we're the white-knuckle passengers aboard this train!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Lods on May 27, 2025, 08:25:15 am
I'm thinking of getting off this train and waiting for the next one. It should be along about the end of the year ;)
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Micky0 on May 27, 2025, 08:35:28 am
Attitude changed instantly after the pow wow at Ed's place. Then we won 10 in a row. Those finals wins were good ones as we were nearly cooked by then. That was our one chance to get a premiership if we didn't play in such poor, often lazy fashion the first half of 2023. The side is similar, structure definitely needs work though for the next step but attitude is everything, and that's the worst part. Without that, nothing else matters. May as well shuffle the deck chair on the Titanic. 2023 it changed overnight and changed the fortunes.
You know after thinking about what I watched on Sat and watching Terry's (Blue Abroad) review, something didn't look right with the players. The attitude doesnt seem quite there and I wonder what's the cause? Is the TDK move and potential senior player move causing angst? Is the E Hollands situation worse than what we know? Ollie in particular looked flat as a tack from when he ran out. Dunno, could be me just jumping to conclusions based purely on what I perceive (think I see) with no inside knowledge whatsoever.
Rumour I heard after the weekend was EH issue was relationship issues involving someone else’s partner from the club. This came from someone that’s around the club a lot but who knows. People say all sorts of stuff.
To me there doesn’t seem to be great camaraderie and why that is, only they know. I don’t sense they play for each other at all tho and yes they’re professional sportsmen and winning is the goal and they should be able to pocket any drama and just win. Winning does bring people together and I’m sure losing does the opposite.
Don’t know the answer but wouldn’t want to be Voss Lloyd or Austin at the moment as they will be feeling the pressure.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Baggers on May 27, 2025, 08:55:09 am
I wouldn't be trading McKay. He is a very important player.
Im all for trading Harry, I think two tall key forwards isnt the go in modern footy and we need a class small forward and a class half back more. The times we have played with one key forward and an inbetween tall like Kemp in the other KP we have looked a bit slicker and more modern in our playing style. If TDK goes and either Harry or Sam Walsh are traded we might be able to reset quickly with the draft capital, Graeme Wright presided over the Grundy/Treloar trades and the Pies had a flag in 12 months time. Id want Wright in charge of any of these bigger trades both outgoing and incoming, time to roll the dice imho.
Im 150% with you EB. We need to be all chips in for this years trade period and if we think a few little tweaks here and there will be enough we are more delusional then i thought.
Apart from Weitering and Cripps i think any of our other so called A graders should be possible names thrown up during the trade period providing of course if we can get 'proven quality' in the areas we need coming back the other way.
Without this this list wont go deep into finals and with our top end talent going past their prime we will have to concede the rebuild has failed.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Micky0 on May 27, 2025, 12:00:25 pm
I think H is impoetsnt to us, he can be used around the ground and always takes amazing clutch marks.
Re footy and losing interest - same. When we’re not contenders - again - I don’t care about other teams at all. It’s depressing hearing the Pies are again flying etc 🙄
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: PaulP on May 27, 2025, 12:23:55 pm
You know after thinking about what I watched on Sat and watching Terry's (Blue Abroad) review, something didn't look right with the players. The attitude doesnt seem quite there and I wonder what's the cause? Is the TDK move and potential senior player move causing angst? Is the E Hollands situation worse than what we know? Ollie in particular looked flat as a tack from when he ran out. Dunno, could be me just jumping to conclusions based purely on what I perceive (think I see) with no inside knowledge whatsoever.
Rumour I heard after the weekend was EH issue was relationship issues involving someone else’s partner from the club. This came from someone that’s around the club a lot but who knows. People say all sorts of stuff.
To me there doesn’t seem to be great camaraderie and why that is, only they know. I don’t sense they play for each other at all tho and yes they’re professional sportsmen and winning is the goal and they should be able to pocket any drama and just win. Winning does bring people together and I’m sure losing does the opposite.
Don’t know the answer but wouldn’t want to be Voss Lloyd or Austin at the moment as they will be feeling the pressure.
wooah - if true, that is huge. could explain a bit
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Milhanna13 on May 27, 2025, 01:01:52 pm
Looks like AFL 360 called us "The Lygon Street Butchers".
Talks about poor entry inside F50....showed 1 example of a miskick as proof we can't kick.
2 second analysis based on numbers, not game plan. Someone is always going to be 18th. Doesn't mean they can't kick.
you mean a footy show based a whole segment on 1 or 2 pieces of footage??? wow, thats never happenned before.
every time one of those blokes (lloyd especially) stands up in front of the screen, they show 1 or 2 pieces of footage and use it as proof of an absolute statement!!
most of these shows had melbourne dead and buried for the next few years, and then this week they are the next collingwood!!
last week walsh was back and his ball use was amazing, now he is our weak link and not in the top 30 mids in the comp.
way too much space to fill, with way too little to talk about, on the 53 different shows....
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Baggers on May 27, 2025, 01:25:55 pm
I’m struggling with maintaining interest at the moment, finding it hard to watch the footy at all in fact.
Many Bluebaggers feel similar, Fluffy One. The passion is being bled out of us by what we've had to endure for a long time now. And the false dawn offered by Vossy is appearing to be just that. Our crowds at recent home games have been uncustomarily subdued. I had two seats to last Saturday's game and my bro and I decided not to bother. Never have felt that way before... even during lean periods.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: laj on May 27, 2025, 01:58:17 pm
Im all for trading Harry, I think two tall key forwards isnt the go in modern footy and we need a class small forward and a class half back more. The times we have played with one key forward and an inbetween tall like Kemp in the other KP we have looked a bit slicker and more modern in our playing style. If TDK goes and either Harry or Sam Walsh are traded we might be able to reset quickly with the draft capital, Graeme Wright presided over the Grundy/Treloar trades and the Pies had a flag in 12 months time. Id want Wright in charge of any of these bigger trades both outgoing and incoming, time to roll the dice imho.
Im 150% with you EB. We need to be all chips in for this years trade period and if we think a few little tweaks here and there will be enough we are more delusional then i thought.
Apart from Weitering and Cripps i think any of our other so called A graders should be possible names thrown up during the trade period providing of course if we can get 'proven quality' in the areas we need coming back the other way.
Without this this list wont go deep into finals and with our top end talent going past their prime we will have to concede the rebuild has failed.
Harry is very important around the ground. Hasn't kicked the scoreboard down but he has done a great job a round the ground in a 2nd ruck role.
Thing is, in our situation we can alot of knee jerk type reactions that one can regret. Stuill have to think about it. We had players traded everywhere in 2023 up to round 13. That soon changed.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: laj on May 27, 2025, 02:08:35 pm
I think H is impoetsnt to us, he can be used around the ground and always takes amazing clutch marks.
Re footy and losing interest - same. When we’re not contenders - again - I don’t care about other teams at all. It’s depressing hearing the Pies are again flying etc 🙄
Yes, Harry is important in the dual role of forward and 2nd ruck.. In many respects more so than Charlie. Brisbane had Daniher and Hipwood as their two main forwards last year in their premiership but where Daniher was very good is, like Harry, plays two important roles.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Adelaideblue on May 27, 2025, 02:43:33 pm
Harry is also one forward who's been doing some leading in recent games. Particularly it seems when Cooper Lord or Jordan Boyd have the ball and are steaming towards the forward line. Did you see the bullet like pass that Boyd hit Harry with against Sydney Swans ?......wow!.....more needed!
No I wouldn't be trading out Harry McKay. Improve our drafting, no more Francis Evans types recruiters (sorry Frankie!). Importantly set the club up to draft in later this year two apparently top father sons selections plus one or more of our promising Next Generation Academies recruits.
Ab
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: cookie2 on May 27, 2025, 03:19:48 pm
I think H is impoetsnt to us, he can be used around the ground and always takes amazing clutch marks.
Re footy and losing interest - same. When we’re not contenders - again - I don’t care about other teams at all. It’s depressing hearing the Pies are again flying etc 🙄
Yes, Harry is important in the dual role of forward and 2nd ruck.. In many respects more so than Charlie. Brisbane had Daniher and Hipwood as their two main forwards last year in their premiership but where Daniher was very good is, like Harry, plays two important roles.
I would want to know what the alternative plan was going forward and the likely benefits before commenting on whether or not to trade Harry.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Thryleon on May 27, 2025, 03:46:53 pm
^^
Dont bring logical planning into this conversation cookie! It wont suit the emotive backlash about the lack of wins. Thing is, say we held on to win against Richmond and the bulldogs (both games were gettable within minutes to go), what would the conversations look like?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Baggers on May 27, 2025, 07:46:58 pm
Even contemplating trading H is bizarre. TDK, Walsh, Charles... maybe, but not H.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: kruddler on May 27, 2025, 08:05:33 pm
Even contemplating trading H is bizarre. TDK, Walsh, Charles... maybe, but not H.
Why the others, but not H?
Too valuable in the dual role. Hasn't kicked the goals but around the ground he is outstanding. Fox article (I have to find it again) has him as out most important player.
(disclaimer : also had Motlop as our 3rd most important, not sure what they are smoking. TDK 2nd)
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: laj on May 28, 2025, 10:52:03 am
Even contemplating trading H is bizarre. TDK, Walsh, Charles... maybe, but not H.
TDK will go others will still be around. Basically, our biggest issue is a bad attitude, 2023 showed what attitude does, plus a couple of other obvious structural issues. With those guys, form is temporary, class is permanent.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Lods on May 28, 2025, 10:52:52 am
Yes, Harry is important in the dual role of forward and 2nd ruck.. In many respects more so than Charlie. Brisbane had Daniher and Hipwood as their two main forwards last year in their premiership but where Daniher was very good is, like Harry, plays two important roles.
I would want to know what the alternative plan was going forward and the likely benefits before commenting on whether or not to trade Harry.
I have Harry as our most important player. So, he's last on the list.
Wonder what we get for TDK compo when he goes. Think it is pick 8 right now.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: laj on May 28, 2025, 10:59:31 am
(disclaimer : also had Motlop as our 3rd most important, not sure what they are smoking. TDK 2nd)
That kind of destroys their credibility. :D :D Weitering??? Cripps???
I think Harry is up there. Certainly ahead of Curnow at present because he does more work around the ground.
Only thing I can say about Motlop is he is tackling at least because he is barely touching it. If you're only going to touch it 6 times at least make up for it by kicking at least 2 goals. He's kicking nothing.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 28, 2025, 12:25:20 pm
That kind of destroys their credibility. :D :D Weitering??? Cripps???
I think Harry is up there. Certainly ahead of Curnow at present because he does more work around the ground.
Only thing I can say about Motlop is he is tackling at least because he is barely touching it. If you're only going to touch it 6 times at least make up for it by kicking at least 2 goals. He's kicking nothing.
We are just looking for justification for these guys, the small fwds are a massive part of our problem.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: kruddler on May 28, 2025, 12:54:39 pm
Too valuable in the dual role. Hasn't kicked the goals but around the ground he is outstanding. Fox article (I have to find it again) has him as out most important player.
(disclaimer : also had Motlop as our 3rd most important, not sure what they are smoking. TDK 2nd)
As lods said, having Motlop 3rd ruins whatever credibility they may have had. Motlop might be in our top 20 most important players, might, but he ain't 3rd!
I can't believe i'm going to say this, but what Harry has been giving us in terms of limited goals and limited ruck ability, we could get in Young for 1/3 of the price. Harry is not the same Harry he was. Not sure he ever will be again.
Rating him that highly is watching him through 'old glasses' rather than on recent form. Harry has kicked 9 goals in 7 games this year. Harry averages <3 hitouts a game.
Young has kicked 5 goals in 8 games Young averages 4 hitouts a game.
I can guarantee you Young hasn't spent as much time in the F50 as Harry, and certainly isn't targetted as much.
If Harry is indeed our most important player, then he is the sole reason we are sucking at present.....and i don't buy that.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: pertz on May 28, 2025, 12:57:22 pm
Only thing I can say about Motlop is he is tackling at least because he is barely touching it. If you're only going to touch it 6 times at least make up for it by kicking at least 2 goals. He's kicking nothing.
We are just looking for justification for these guys, the small fwds are a massive part of our problem.
Agree with this. The time to shake things up is now. Whoever said something about "knee jerk reactions we will regret", well the same problems have been around for 3-4 years. The attitude of many players is poor at the moment. Maybe it's all too hard for some? A big chance they are not on board with the game plan? Only they know. And as many have said, we have obvious holes in the list (eg players with pace who can break lines, players who can hit targets) Throw it all in the mix and its hard work and a grind at the moment. The players are not enjoying their footy and nor are we. Soft wins in the next few weeks will not paper over the cracks. I await Graeme Wright's actions with much interest.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: pinot on May 28, 2025, 01:32:20 pm
Having four VFL standard crabs clogging up the forward line and leading lanes is a gift that keeps on giving for the opposition.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: DJC on May 28, 2025, 10:17:04 pm
There’s nothing like the slow train back to South Geelong after a loss to focus one’s thoughts on what went wrong.
The bottom line is that we couldn’t hit the side of a barn, let alone a leading forward, and our defence simply couldn’t cope with GWS’s rebounds from defence.
The real epiphany I had as the train made its way back is that I don’t really understand the rules of the game as it’s officiated now 🙄
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 28, 2025, 10:22:03 pm
There’s nothing like the slow train back to South Geelong after a loss to focus one’s thoughts on what went wrong.
The bottom line is that we couldn’t hit the side of a barn, let alone a leading forward, and our defence simply couldn’t cope with GWS’s rebounds from defence.
The real epiphany I had as the train made its way back is that I don’t really understand the rules of the game as it’s officiated now 🙄
Couldnt hit the side of a barn, that's it in a nut shell. As for the rules, they find new ways to make the umpires job harder to do. They have thrown in the "not 15m" garbage. I know it's always been the rule but by the extra focus on it, they seem to fark it up more (ie inconsistent). As for HTB and incorrect disposal, its just a joke now.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: DJC on May 28, 2025, 10:49:30 pm
There’s nothing like the slow train back to South Geelong after a loss to focus one’s thoughts on what went wrong.
The bottom line is that we couldn’t hit the side of a barn, let alone a leading forward, and our defence simply couldn’t cope with GWS’s rebounds from defence.
The real epiphany I had as the train made its way back is that I don’t really understand the rules of the game as it’s officiated now 🙄
Couldnt hit the side of a barn, that's it in a nut shell. As for the rules, they find new ways to make the umpires job harder to do. They have thrown in the "not 15m" garbage. I know it's always been the rule but by the extra focus on it, they seem to fark it up more (ie inconsistent). As for HTB and incorrect disposal, its just a joke now.
I watched Razor Ray a couple of weeks ago when he had to analyse a “not 15m” decision. The ball was kicked from outside one behind post and was marked outside the other behind post meaning that the ball had travelled more than 21m. Poor Razor was as exasperated as most supporters are.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Micky0 on May 28, 2025, 11:15:16 pm
The not 15m has screwed up so many games, it was so frustrating watching them call every 50/50 for a while to then sporadically call it and then not call it! Ridiculous.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: pinot on May 29, 2025, 09:39:23 am
The impossible is required from AFL umpires. It's way too difficult AFL needs to spend millions and integrate AI into umpiring and fast.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Thryleon on May 29, 2025, 09:53:30 am
Im sure the umpires 50 metres off the ball whistled for a free kick at one point and the in zone umpire and everyone around the contest had no idea what it was for. Might have been awarded to us for a hold in the end, but as I was telling people that there is an infringement for and against both teams at every contest it just depends on when you see it.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 11 2025 Post Game Postulations Carlton vs GWS
Post by: Gointocarlton on May 29, 2025, 01:33:54 pm