Well, we won the hard one. Now to the far away one,
We've beaten them interstate already this year. ;)
We should do it again.
I'd like to see Ben C get a run, even if only as sub, he deserves a go.
O'Farrell would also be worthy of a spot...but there's probably not one there for him just at the moment.
O'Farrell looks a cut above in the twos. I would be using him in lieu of McGovern in defence, with MMcG playing a high half-forward role to give us a bit of aerial presence around the wings.
Ben C deserves a run as well, probably ahead of Will W.
I'd drop Fantasia for Ben if we wanted to give him a run.
Potentially you might find Cerra missing with a concussion and/or hamstring and then you can give Fantasia a reprieve as a sub.
Watch on McKay.
Will 'knee soreness' extend to more than one week.
Voss didn't seem too sure when asked.
Yep, he said its a cartledge issue. They don't fix themselves.
Trade him, trade him now! :-[
Should win but probably wont. Just cant trust them at the minute. Hopefully H is right to go although HOK didn't look lost out there last night and will be better for the run.
Ben Campo in and Cerra out(concussion or close to it), Id also play Flynn Young and give Will White a rest as sub, the former showed enough in the VFL he can kick a goal and be a handy finisher.
Id give Harry another week off and bring him back for Nth and Port who will be a lot tougher than the Weagles.
3 ins, no outs.
Boyd, Durdin and Lewis Young
McKay didn't get up (Maybe next week)
O'Keefe named at CHF
Yep was never going to play IMO.
Percentage booster.
If we beat them by around 100-80
Then both :D :D
These days I'm not confident no matter who we play or where.
I think that, more so than ever before, no result can be taken for granted this season. Stan the Statistician might be able demonstrate why we should win, but his facts and figures don’t cover what’s going on above the shoulders 🙄
From what I've seen regarding our MC activities over the last few rounds I fear we are on a death spiral, relative to selection we appear to be trying the same thing over and over while hoping for a change in the result!
We did try some new tactics last game, and it seemed effective with much of the effectiveness probably coming from catching the opponents off guard. That variability could be a useful tactic against weaker opponents, but we have to be variable for the approach to work. If we again become too formulaic the opposition will act quickly to close off the available avenues.
We should flog WC similar to last time, I would have taken over Ben Campo or Flynn Young rather than Durdin or Boyd and given them a taste of senior footy vs the worst team in the comp.
I like the idea.
Wet Toast have been up and down recently, they are playing quarters of seriously good footy but are not able to maintain it, does that remind you of any other club? It reminds me of Richmond!
I want to believe, but my mind says;
(https://miro.medium.com/v2/da:true/resize:fit:330/1*5A2PzZ1mv7ok6UpRGOdy9w.gif)
I know a few of our blokes are studying psychology, but I hope like hell we have an A-Grade bonified professional on board!
Couldn't agree with you more, EB1. Personally, I've given up on Durds as a small forward. His shtick is defensiveness, and we've already got one of those with Fogs. For moi, Ben C was a no brainer. Billy W should also be seriously considered along with Flynn Y.
And FFS, I hope Cinc is given more license to be offensive... a waste of genuine leg speed being just a lockdown run-with.
Motlop 12 games, 9 goals
Durdin 7 games, 10 goals
Billy Wilson has been going Ok in the VFL
Averaging 19 disposals a game.
Out of contract this year.
A decision may have already been made but it would be good to see him get a run...reward for effort.
Yep Wilson is another who I would least try in the seniors before moving on same with Lemmey but HOK is ahead of him at the minute and I look forward to seeing him play again.
Durdin 44 goals over 55 games, Motlop has 51 goals in 52 games, one of the greatest small fwds of our time Eddie Betts had 51 goals in his 50th game. Not dissimilar pace and they are young so there is time. With Durdin the question is around durability. With our small fwds in general, we need another quality explosive one.
Agree with what has been posted.
Why persist with Fantasia?
We already know what he brings to the battle
....a pea shooter.
I like the look of HOK. Very much a prospect imho.
Agree, has the ability to ruck and play KP Forward and those types dont come along too often. Takes one grab marks and has decent foot skills and I thought his debut was very promising. Im all for introducing new young players rather than moving the usual underperforming deckchairs between the VFL and senior team and Lemmey is another tall prospect who I would be preferring to see trialled than keep going back to the likes of Lewis Young who I dont see as part of our future plans.
I think Lemmey will get a look at some stage in the second half.
He's an out of contract player at the end of the year but I think we should hang on to him a bit longer.
It will be interesting to see how he goes with McMahon out of the picture and him being the main forward target in the VFL.
Yep, even in his one outing without McMahon he looked better and more engaged.
Orasio again. Just shoot me
Durdin in
White out
Fantasia stays.
Surely the future is not with Fantasia, but rather White and/or Durdin.
Its against West Coast FFS, so we should be getting games into our kids.
Fantasia had 1 posession in the 1st, 3rd and 4th quarters and a massive 3 in the 2nd for a grand total of 6 touches.
White got 4, in the 1 quarter he played.
We need to make some list cuts at the end of the year, and unless all those in charge have had labotomies, its quite clear we need to cut from our 'small forwards' list at least in part.
E.Hollands
Cottrell
Fogarty
Williams
Motlop
Durdin
White
F. Young
Fantasia
Evans
That is 10 players that are basically fighting for 4 spots on the ground.
We need to work out who we are keeping and who we are cutting.
I can't see any scenario that has Fantasia in our long term future, so why are we playing him. Give Flynn Young a go FFS we recruited him over McMahon.
E Holland's a lock from that list
I long for the days of Johnston and the Buzz on our flanks. Then others who'd 2nd rove in the forward post and play in the guts when it was turn. Marcou, Buckley, Sheldon, Ashman. They'd smash the scoreboard and smash it in the guts. I look at our small forwards by comparison and have a cold sweat.
white hasn't covered himself in glory with a few limp efforts last few outings and i noted is carrying fresh strapping. He's a first year afl player recruited from the vfl. He'll get plenty of chances, and will be around next year.
Fantasia is playing now whilst we need wins. I expect he'll go at seasons end unless we really turn over a number of players and he's sticking around for a bag of chips. He is more outside winger with wheels and high iq than the rest and brings more leadership and experience than the others who haven't really gotten into form yet.
Did you type the bold bit with a straight face?
Agree white hasn't been setting the world on fire....but if you look at the numbers he is putting up in the time he has been given and its superior to Fantasia.
We give our stars half a season to get right after injury but expect Orazio to fire straight away.
Is it because he played for the Bombers?
I don't expect him to fire straight away.
I don't expect him to fire. Ever.
I did write it with a straight face. Fantasia has asset's we dont have in abundance. His issue is the same as a few others. Reliability.
You said it yourself earlier. Put the names down who are eligible in order of games played. Those ones are getting games right now.
As soon as our season is dead I expect some more changes.
When i said that, that was because we had so many injuries and thats how we picked a team.
Now we are at our lowest injury list for about as long as i can remember and we can actually pick a team on talent and output.
I haven't seen either from Orazio.
The only way i can accept the club picking Fantasia over white (or young) is if they've made up their mind that they are not the future. Considering we just drafted young, i see no reason for them to think that, thus, i have no faith in them.
BTW, i forgot a name from my small forwards list - Moir. 11 players playing for 4 positions. 1/4 of our list is made up of small forwards who we could be training up, yet we play Fantasia. Honestly, i can't see it.
I don't get the hate for Orazio. He's played 40 games in 6 seasons, would be among the cheapest players on the list, cost us nothing in terms of trade and draft capital, and people carry on like he's not only responsible for all of Carlton's ills, but is apparently stopping some young guns from getting games. His name is basically rage bait.
It's in all supporters' interests to back their players 100%, whether you personally like them or not.
Reality is, if there was someone to displace him they would. He is playing because he warrants a game based on our structure, his work ethic on the training track and in the 2s and the form of those competing for the same role (if there is one). This notion that he is Vossy's pet is nonsense.
I agree. Voss is not going to risk his job for the 44th player on the list.
I don't get all the LOVE for Orazio. He's played 40 games in 6 seasons....
What does he give us that a younger player doesn't?
As best as i can get out of people is he runs....and might tackle. So does everyone else on our list who is younger and has more upside.
If we were in finals.....ok, fine, experience, sure.
But now? Last week?? What did he give us?
IMO if you have 2 players on your list giving you equal output, go the younger kid as he has more room to improve every day.
Problem is, i don't think he is given us equal output as the younger kids.
Its the same thing with Lewis Young.
Why give him a game, now, instead of HOF. Develop the kid. You know what Young will bring.
Why recruit White and Flynn Young if you are just going to play Fantasia?
11 small/medium forwards on our list. The last 3-4 blokes we've added to it has been small/med forwards.
Either back Fantasia in, or don't. Don't take kids who perform the same, but drop them for him.
It doesn't make sense.
Not convinced this will be the 'walk in the park' most people think it should be.
Any complacency from our players may be very costly.
EH and Cottrell are not small forwards, having them at the top of the list a stretch.
I suppose the list is padded to try and exacerbate the SF list management point, but it's not reality to have EH and Cottrell there, you could have easily made the point with just the genuine 8 SFs, the list did not need fluffing!
A couple of those 'small forwards' are around the same height as John Nicholls :))
Fantasia only had five disposals but they all came from contested possessions and his disposal efficiency was 100%. He also kicked a goal, had two score involvements, one clearance and stuck four tackles. Then there’s the work Fantasia does getting up and down the ground and applying pressure. All in all, not brilliant but a reasonable return for a bloke playing the Matt Cottrell high half forward role.
White didn’t get much of a run but he was lively when he came on. One effective disposal and no tackles for a fresh player isn’t that flash though.
I suspect that White will be around for a bit longer than Fantasia but I think he needs to build some form in the magoos.
We played five of our “small” forwards last Sunday and were also rotating midfielders through the forward line … and “small” forwards through the midfield.
Not sure why people are so fixated on the 'small' part of the forwards.
I clearly said fighting for 4 positions.
Referring to...
2 fp
And 2 hff
As in, not key forwards ie Harry+Charlie.
Sorry if the nomenclature is distracting from the point.
If people.are telling me cottrell and elijah are not playing as hffs then we have some issues.
That doesnt mean they play 100% of their TOG at hff and they can rotate through the middle. Hell, motlop and williams have rotated through the middle as well.
Good teams are made up of a number of A graders along with solid foot soldiers with pace, smarts and a touch of aggression. How much have we missed the 'foot soldier' qualities of Cotterlll and Cincotta this year??
Walsh is going to miss for the next 5 to 6 weeks. Here we go guys, we get a dress rehearsal to see how we'll go with trading out our currency.
Jason binns gets the call up to replace him.
Our line-up:
B: 1 Jack Silvagni 23 Jacob Weitering 4 Oliver Hollands
HB: 42 Adam Saad 26 Nick Haynes 15 Sam Docherty
C: 39 Alex Cincotta 9 Patrick Cripps 13 Blake Acres
HF: 36 Cooper Lord 40 Hudson O'Keeffe 11 Mitch McGovern
F: 8 Lachie Fogarty 30 Charlie Curnow 6 Zac Williams
R: 12 Tom De Koning 5 Adam Cerra 25 Jaxon Binns
Int: 32 Matthew Carroll 19 Corey Durdin 3 Jesse Motlop 14 Orazio Fantasia 29 George Hewett
Em: 38 Will White 33 Lewis Young 37 Jordan Boyd
Losing Walsh is a huge out, just when he was starting to play some better football. Replacing him with Binns ... I don't see it. I guess we'll find out how badly we miss Walsh's run and carry in the next couple of weeks.
It is a pity that the Weagles are better this year, as we really need boost. (I can't believe I'm writing this!)
Fantasia is no different to Geelong selecting Jack Martin. You get to the ar$e end of the list build, and you roll the dice on someone experienced who can make a more immediate impact, or a young fellow that needs to be carried by the senior blokes as he learns the ropes. It's low risk and low cost by any measure.
Some folks have been against him from the start. He should change his name to Telstra, and once that happens people can just go, "Ohh f@##&ng Telstra, don't get me started."
Yep, put martin and fantasias stats side by side and you'll see why Geelong are the benchmark and we are where we are.
Martin is the superior player.
Fwiw, I was against the selection of fantasia because of the position he played, not because of him. I even had him selected in my best 22 when he first came across.
My issues with him is solely on output and how he has underperformed since and is taking a spot of a kid who could become something.
He is the quintessential list clogger.
We'll see how binns goes today, but that's a huge downgrade on Walsh. At least it's giving a kid a go
I was suggesting that the rationale, thought process and reasoning behind Geelong's and our decision is the same, not that they are the same player.
Calling him a list clogger is harsh. This is exactly what people on here were saying about Martin, or any of the other anointed whipping boys. Martin is also taking a spot on Geelong's list, so I guess their recruiting prowess is greatly exaggerated.
Logic is only sound if the player is worth it.
Sure it makes sense to pick up a talented player for nothing. That is dependent on the amount of talent in the player picking up. Otherwise the logic is out the window.
IMO Martin is worth it.
IMO Fantasia is not.
Binns is not a Walsh replacement, Binns is a reshuffle.
It'll be someone like Fogarty or Lord that gets more midfield time.
There is no "Walsh replacement" in the like for like sense, the assertion there is would be pure fantasy!
Ben Campo to replace Walsh for me...
Re: Fantasia ....We complain about injuries and use them as an excuse for poor results and then go and recruit known injury prone players like Martin, Williams, Fantasia and McGovern. None of their former clubs made a supreme effort to keep them and we just love a free to a good home sales sign and cant resist buying.
We dont have a good history of getting players right so why would we be taking a chance on injury prone players?, Fantasia cant stay on the park so his form or ability is irrelevant.
Anyone we recruit has to be 100% with no injury concerns, you wouldnt buy a car thats been in an accident so why recruit a player with a history of injury concerns ?
I admit that this would be a good time to blood Ben Camporeale, but our Match Committee generally don't see things the way I do. Some of their decisions are more than a little strange far too often.
But then, as long as we win, I guess they've done their job. I just don't think they've always allowed us to win.
There decisions might seem strange but they have the benefit of knowing the ins and outs of a ducks ass. They watch and monitor the players every day know exactly what they are/arent capable of and where they are in there stage of development. We simply dont have this level of knowledge.
They have the knowledge, sure.
Doesn't mean they don't get it wrong
I agree!
Skull is a case in point. He wasn't ready for AFL, something clicked, and then he was. The coaches picked that up and he got his chance. Same with Harry O'Farrell; many supporters were dubious but he acquitted himself well.
Ben Camporeale will get his chance when he's ready.
HOK said himself in a recent interview that he wasnt ready 6 mths ago.
Our MC have a history of losing us games at selection and playing unfit players, we could have Nick Daicos or Will Ashcroft in the twos waiting for their first game and they would probably pick Lewis Young instead.
If ever there is a game to blood another youngster its vs the hapless WC, if the MC dont have enough faith in the other players to get the job done and think that a young kid who probably would be sub anyway is the make or break factor for a win/loss then we are worse off than I thought.
Thought Campo was the obvious one. Especially after his game last week.
ok, Ill play. How do WE know if Campo didn't pull up sore and picked up a little niggle?
What's Campo's trained role? Does Campo have the aerobic capacity to plug the hole left by Walsh? Can other roles be shuffled to accommodate Campo to cover the hole left by Walsh?
He got 32 touches last week (Ben, not Lucas) and ran out the game very well. VFL admittedly but that's what we have to to go on. Often Walsh's role is on the wing, Campo's spot. Just thought he'd be a better option than Binns and more like for like, if that is possible comparing to Walsh. Where we sit there's nothing to lose trying. The rest of our side can't run out a game so it doesn't matter anyway. There's a reason we sit 10-2 on the half time ladder with a percentage of 130% but sit 12th where it matters.
If not, put Scotty Campo in, we know he could run up and down a wing all day....haha.
Binns, to his credit, can run 15 to 16 km without raising a sweat, what were Campos GPS numbers? Can he run 15km?