Princes Park => Robert Heatley Stand => Topic started by: crashlander on June 20, 2025, 03:53:00 pm
Title: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: crashlander on June 20, 2025, 03:53:00 pm
Ready for tomorrow.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: LygonStreetLimbo on June 21, 2025, 04:23:19 pm
I think we’ve all checked out This will be a short discussion
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: madbluboy on June 21, 2025, 04:25:09 pm
Time to play the youth.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: rocky on June 21, 2025, 04:28:14 pm
At least the pressure is now well and truly off. Start playing some speculative personnel to see if they're up to it. See if we can win a couple more games. Surely now we should play with careless abandon to see if we can somehow change our game style for the future.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Baggers on June 21, 2025, 04:28:26 pm
We should thank the Kangabies, they tore away all the paper over our cracks.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Smurfy on June 21, 2025, 04:32:54 pm
every good team already knew what our weakness's were . we just need to decide is Voss the man to lead us if so he needs help he has no plan B. the game has passed us by and its sad that we cant adapt and change.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Thryleon on June 21, 2025, 04:39:45 pm
We kicked ourselves out of the game early.
Credit to north they took each and every opportunity efficiently and thats the tale of the game. Take your chances you win games.
Not sure what the double goal was for, but very dissapointed that we didnt get physical and hurt a few players. Season is over time to start crunching bodies.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: LP on June 21, 2025, 04:54:55 pm
I don't get why we looked so shocked at the physical nature of a Clarkson coached opponent!
btw., Clarkson will be peeling paint off the walls after that game, he's not one for leaving a chance of recovery from a shallow grave, from the position they started the last quarter in. He would have wanted his kids burying us 9m deep and as a result he'll be absolutely filthy because they finished the game like us.
I know I harp on this, but until I see us burying teams we aren't likely to be consistent or successful, we need to show that we can hurt opponents by leaving them in the dust not limping over the line.
AFL is brutal, if you can't be cold and brutal you've almost zero chance of success. FFS, I saw Motlop pickup and give Xerri his helmet back. If you did that in a Sheedy, Walls, Barassi, Matthews or Malthouse coached squad you might not make it out of your own change rooms alive!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: tonyo on June 21, 2025, 05:38:08 pm
When we run and carry, we look a bit like a team. When we go backwards and forwards across the D50 arc, it looks more like orienteering than football. Comedy capers.
Very flattered by the final margin - North went to sleep after they completely outplayed us for 2 quarters. .
You would not want to be a Carlton forward, the delivery is appalling.
Season is cooked, so time to spend the rest of the year giving some young ones a go. If we front up to 2026 with this same batch, it will be another wasted year.
Binns - sad to say, just not up to it.... Durdin - list clogger Doc - time has come Pitto - the team is unbalanced with him and TDK in the one team. He plays like a ruckman from the 70s.
Charlie - at least look like you're have a crack, body language is appalling. Could not chase a paper bag blowing in the wind.
Crippa - needs a rest.
Another season down the gurgler, and it's not even July. I was sitting in the Member's section, and the natives are getting very restless.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: LordLucifer on June 21, 2025, 05:49:13 pm
Pathetic !!
Makes me embarrassed to admit I follow the Blues now.
From the admin to the coaches to the players, we are a goddam rabble and there is no sugarcoating it anymore.
Apart from Silvagni, all of those uncontracted at season's end have to go.
Time to play Lemmey, Wilson, Moir etc for the rest of the season to see if they have anything to offer, otherwise, they are being shown the door too.
Trade out the big names (keep Weitering though) and go back to the drawing board.
Graham Wright ............. you have a huge job ahead of you but I have some genuine faith in what you are capable of and will support whatever you decide is the right thing to do.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: madbluboy on June 21, 2025, 05:57:33 pm
We don't need a full rebuild. We can turn this around for next season if we make the right moves.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Micky0 on June 21, 2025, 06:01:02 pm
Honestly watching it live in the 3rd quarter down our end you could see they DGAF. Honestly. Half arsed chase, no contest.
Cripps can’t do it on his own anymore and no one else knows how to step up. Not that it should be a one man effort.
Felt sorry for the kids were playing to have such a crape senior team. Does Cerra have any footy smarts, he and Acres get caught so often.
We have absolutely no mongrel about us and we should’ve flattened some of those north players, instead they did us!
I 100% reckon giving Kennedy the arse has disgruntled players - say what you like about them being highly paid professional athletes, when you get rid of your best clubman who was playing well, you create dissent.
I was really pissed off today watching and I don’t care who needs to go for us to recover. Losing to Richmond round 1 should’ve been the tell, and in hindsight I absolutely wish we didn’t fall into the finals last year!
Sorry to Doch but you’re a pace behind, Fantasia might show some smarts but also shows some dumbs, Cerra takes way too long to make decisions, the switch only works if you go fast with it, Cripps cannot carry us any longer.
Why was Motlop the sub and why sub a kid in Lord rather than Doch. Our MC have no fking brains.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: BluePhantom on June 21, 2025, 06:01:44 pm
Credit to north they took each and every opportunity efficiently and thats the tale of the game. Take your chances you win games.
Not sure what the double goal was for, but very dissapointed that we didnt get physical and hurt a few players. Season is over time to start crunching bodies.
The modern Carlton side would NEVER do that, go for the body. The team is full of church boys, not a mongrel among them.
This game was a coach killing game.
Eraser out, let's start again on that rebuild they've been promising us.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 21, 2025, 06:03:12 pm
At least the pressure is now well and truly off. Start playing some speculative personnel to see if they're up to it. See if we can win a couple more games. Surely now we should play with careless abandon to see if we can somehow change our game style for the future.
Pressure off? Its only just started. Coach will get it in the neck because of these goons.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: kruddler on June 21, 2025, 06:10:25 pm
Whoever is our forwards coach (and our midfield coach) thanks, but your contracts are not going to be renewed.
The disconnect between forwards and midfielders is pathetic. Forwards don't know where to run, or run into the same space. Midfielders continually kick it on top of them, rather than in front of them or to their advantage. Don't get me started on goal kicking.
THAT is our biggest area of need and the area we can make the fastest turnaround for getting right.
Not sure who the umpires were today, but i reckon they were out bush last week and will be out bush next week. Prior opportunity didn't seem to exist half the time. In the back didn't seem to exist most of the time. Deliberate over the goal line was erased from their rule book today. Trying to explain some of the decisions to my kids today and the results contradict eachother from one deicision to the next. Didn't change the result, but made it a terrible game to watch when it was already terrible to begin with.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 21, 2025, 06:12:18 pm
Thought Nth beat us up in the contest and in particular the midfield, I don't count the last quarter as it was junk time and Nth are an inexperienced team so were always going to tighten up and take the foot off the gas. We looked super slow, soft at the contest and lacking leadership. Curnow can't be bothered, TDK looked like his mind was somewhere else and even Cripps looked fed up with such poor effort from his team. Might not need a full rebuild but we need a savage reset, we are slowly falling behind younger rebuild teams and need an influx of speed and elite kicking skills across most lines.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 21, 2025, 06:24:33 pm
I reckon I watched 5 to 10 mins of the game so I cant judge too much about what we did or didn't do. The snippets that I did catch however: - We were second to the ball at every contest - North seemed hungrier to win contests - I caught Voss absolutely giving it to them at 3/4 time. I think I saw 3 or 4 of the 6 in row that they kicked which is unforgivable.
For those interested, our salamis came up a treat.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Micky0 on June 21, 2025, 06:28:39 pm
Was actually not wanting us to win in the last - Did not deserve it.
Not sure who coaches what but:
1. Handballs should not be loping slow passes, they create room for the other team to get to the contest;
2. Loping slow kicks - see above.
3. Tackles should stick. Wrapping yourself around a player but still letting the opp get a handball away - again and again and again - is NOT sticking a tackle.
4. Kicking out directly to OPP For them to kick a goal - not good.
5. Not leading not running not contesting - Fail.
The more I think of that game the angrier I get. I hate hearing our supporters boo us and when the 10% that stayed til the end did that, it hurts My soul a bit because some of those players do care.
Also why do we fall over so much and why do we mishandle the ball so often. Seems either deliberate or —-/ not sure.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: LP on June 21, 2025, 06:28:49 pm
Media blaming Voss, but nobody can fix our TDK, Pitto, Cripps, Cerra, Hewett, lead midfield gets it's ar5e handed to it by babies, we barely touched the footy for 1-1/2 quarters. That is despite being delivered the footy to advantage multiple times more than Norp, which in the negative might be the most useful measure of midfield performance?
Anyone reading the stats a year or two from now will think today's game was evenly matched, which is just a pure demonstration of how sh1t some stats really are!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Micky0 on June 21, 2025, 06:31:04 pm
I reckon I watched 5 to 10 mins of the game so I cant judge too much about what we did or didn't do. The snippets that I did catch however: - We were second to the ball at every contest - North seemed hungrier to win contests - I caught Voss absolutely giving it to them at 3/4 time. I think I saw 3 or 4 of the 6 in row that they kicked which is unforgivable.
For those interested, our salamis came up a treat.
Voss seemed pissed off! FKING GOOD! Get angry and fck off any players that is not buying in properly. Make TDK make a decision now and if he’s gone, okay fine, VFL for rest of the year!
Get real Carlton!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: laj on June 21, 2025, 06:32:47 pm
Thought Nth beat us up in the contest and in particular the midfield, I don't count the last quarter as it was junk time and Nth are an inexperienced team so were always going to tighten up and take the foot off the gas. We looked super slow, soft at the contest and lacking leadership. Curnow can't be bothered, TDK looked like his mind was somewhere else and even Cripps looked fed up with such poor effort from his team. Might not need a full rebuild but we need a savage reset, we are slowly falling behind younger rebuild teams and need an influx of speed and elite kicking skills across most lines.
A bit of run can just take a few tweaks a few slower ones out and a couple of runners brought in. Then need a coach who can make the most of it. O'd start to look at Cripps at being forward alot longer as he gets older. He's be a tough match up. TDK will likely go so we'll likely have a first pick, Jagga Smith will be good to go next year and a couple of F/S/Academy players, whom are looking great will hopefully come in too next year. Billy Wilson, who is playing well and has real speed, and Ben Campo in now given the season is done. Get ourselves some run. The best run we've had in a game was when we had 19 players out last year, albeit against the Eagles. We were forced to play them.
All that doesn't matter right now as once again, our attitude and committment stinks to high heaven. A coach at Carlton is only good for a few years until the players get sick of his voice. We've rebuilt, changed the side many times over for years and the attitude still stinks. With a new coach we'll be committed for a year so best have the right coach, have the right players and the right structure to take advantage of a very short window before his voice become boring again to the players. A sad thing to say unfortunately, but that's our lot for which we pay good money for with our membership.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Professer E on June 21, 2025, 06:34:07 pm
Can't stand being bullied by sides, especially *****g Norf. Pathetic. Big fan of Acres but sorry, your kicking is woeful and we can't carry you any more. Same for Saad...if you can't cover a man, make way for someone who can. Tap on the shoulder time I reckon. Time to blood new wingers and half backs.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: LP on June 21, 2025, 06:38:17 pm
I fear time is up for Doc and Saad, it's not that they don't compete or give their all, it's they just don't have time or space to use it anymore.
Too many hot potato disposals and often from standing dead still, the basics are gone, not even a small sidestep from standing from either of them, just slow flat footed disposals that either miss a target or broadcast the intended target to the opposition. Disposals that do not hurt opposition.
If we are going to make hard calls, these are the calls that must be made, the tail won't like it but the tail can't be wagging the dog!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Professer E on June 21, 2025, 07:07:21 pm
Saad is playing tired old man football.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Baggers on June 21, 2025, 07:07:29 pm
I reckon I watched 5 to 10 mins of the game so I cant judge too much about what we did or didn't do. The snippets that I did catch however: - We were second to the ball at every contest - North seemed hungrier to win contests - I caught Voss absolutely giving it to them at 3/4 time. I think I saw 3 or 4 of the 6 in row that they kicked which is unforgivable.
For those interested, our salamis came up a treat.
Tease.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 21, 2025, 07:08:53 pm
I reckon I watched 5 to 10 mins of the game so I cant judge too much about what we did or didn't do. The snippets that I did catch however: - We were second to the ball at every contest - North seemed hungrier to win contests - I caught Voss absolutely giving it to them at 3/4 time. I think I saw 3 or 4 of the 6 in row that they kicked which is unforgivable.
For those interested, our salamis came up a treat.
Voss seemed pissed off! FKING GOOD! Get angry and fck off any players that is not buying in properly. Make TDK make a decision now and if he’s gone, okay fine, VFL for rest of the year!
Get real Carlton!
He wouldnt field a side.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: kruddler on June 21, 2025, 07:09:40 pm
Can't stand being bullied by sides, especially *****g Norf. Pathetic. Big fan of Acres but sorry, your kicking is woeful and we can't carry you any more. Same for Saad...if you can't cover a man, make way for someone who can. Tap on the shoulder time I reckon. Time to blood new wingers and half backs.
And no push-back from our boys. Even in the Magoos game when one of our blokes was 'dealt with' just about the entire squad ran in to remonstrate. The Irish lad, Monahan, was front and centre.
At the risk of sounding like a broken record... Again... Mentally not strong enough. Meek. Nice. As soon as the Kangabies brought strong body pressure - shizened the bed. And it aint a one-off, been the same for a couple of years now.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Baggers on June 21, 2025, 07:24:07 pm
So much I'd like to comment on but couldn't be stuffed. It'd be the same gear I've been banging on about for around 18 months. All I'll say is that no-one could possibly be surprised at today's result. Just a bunch of individuals, with ordinary leadership.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: pinot on June 21, 2025, 07:34:00 pm
Four years on the job with this list and still speaking about small steps and best and worst is too far apart must be a joke.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Lods on June 21, 2025, 07:39:28 pm
Four years on the job with this list and still speaking about small steps and best and worst is too far apart must be a joke.
He is right about the 'best' and 'worst' difference. It's his job to solve it. And at the moment it looks beyond him, because it's become an almost weekly pattern.
On the game... Too much 'Flash' and not enough 'Crash'
Beaten up by a group of young'uns. It just seemed when the going got a bit hard we didn't want to get down and dirty.
As I said in the 'in-game thread... I actually now think it goes a bit beyond what we're seeing on-field. I suspect there may be issues with coaches and players, players and players, coaches and coaches. Not just the normal internal-club stuff but serious rifts and differences of opinion
We play like a group of individuals rather than a team. The effort and intensity we saw in the second half of 2023 seems to have disappeared. There is a difference in our best and worst that is just incomprehensible. It's actually 'Twilight Zone' stuff. At quarter time our players head off into a different dimension. At least they came back for the last quarter. ::) But that wouldn't have happened against any teams contending.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: kruddler on June 21, 2025, 07:54:09 pm
He is right about the 'best' and 'worst' difference. It's his job to solve it.
Has he been able to choose his assistants? Not sure either way. I'd give him the off-season to hand pick who he wants to work with and if he can't get something better than what we produced today, then we've exhausted all our options.
Should leave no stone left unturned in a bid to help him out.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Blue Moon on June 21, 2025, 07:58:25 pm
There is nothing that can be said that has not already been said.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Thryleon on June 21, 2025, 07:59:38 pm
This is a form and execution thing though. Its like quicksand. The harder you struggle the worse it gets. In a way, I'm looking forward to the pressure release of no longer having much to play for. We've been in that spot for nigh on 2.5 years where every week was "crucial". We never really got any clean air, and the constant pressure to win is something that can cause the exact fluctuations and execution issue that we are seeing.
Particularly with a list that seems to be half playing for their lives. Some of them know they're in the gun, makes it hard to give your best account of yourself.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 21, 2025, 08:49:45 pm
Can't stand being bullied by sides, especially *****g Norf. Pathetic. Big fan of Acres but sorry, your kicking is woeful and we can't carry you any more. Same for Saad...if you can't cover a man, make way for someone who can. Tap on the shoulder time I reckon. Time to blood new wingers and half backs.
Agree...got annoyed with Nths kids pushing our blokes after a teammate had won a contest and sticking it to our players. Curtis in particular likes letting the opposition know when they are playing poorly and we took it without a whimper of resistance. Watched a bit of Saints v Pies tonight and Nick Daicos getting manhandled by his tagger and the Pies at every opportunity give it toWindhager and let him know they won't put up with any crap from him against their star mid. We just lack effort and spirit and it's sad to see...
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Professer E on June 21, 2025, 08:55:15 pm
The critical questions... Do we persist with Voss or not? Do we blow it up and start again?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 21, 2025, 09:06:39 pm
Going by the scores, we won 2 qtrs (1st and last) and managed to hold them scoreless in the final term. Thats positive right?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 21, 2025, 09:07:22 pm
Going by the scores, we won 2 qtrs (1st and last) and managed to hold them scoreless in the final term. Thats positive right?
No...they are a rebuild kiddie team, you don't lose quarters or games to kiddie teams. We had plenty to play for and were pathetic, junk time goals don't count.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: madbluboy on June 21, 2025, 09:16:35 pm
Can't stand being bullied by sides, especially *****g Norf. Pathetic. Big fan of Acres but sorry, your kicking is woeful and we can't carry you any more. Same for Saad...if you can't cover a man, make way for someone who can. Tap on the shoulder time I reckon. Time to blood new wingers and half backs.
Agree...got annoyed with Nths kids pushing our blokes after a teammate had won a contest and sticking it to our players. Curtis in particular likes letting the opposition know when they are playing poorly and we took it without a whimper of resistance. Watched a bit of Saints v Pies tonight and Nick Daicos getting manhandled by his tagger and the Pies at every opportunity give it toWindhager and let him know they won't put up with any crap from him against their star mid. We just lack effort and spirit and it's sad to see...
Xerri put TDK into the fence and nothing from his mates.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 21, 2025, 09:18:07 pm
Agree...got annoyed with Nths kids pushing our blokes after a teammate had won a contest and sticking it to our players. Curtis in particular likes letting the opposition know when they are playing poorly and we took it without a whimper of resistance. Watched a bit of Saints v Pies tonight and Nick Daicos getting manhandled by his tagger and the Pies at every opportunity give it toWindhager and let him know they won't put up with any crap from him against their star mid. We just lack effort and spirit and it's sad to see...
Xerri put TDK into the fence and nothing from his mates.
He's a StK player.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 21, 2025, 09:22:41 pm
Agree...got annoyed with Nths kids pushing our blokes after a teammate had won a contest and sticking it to our players. Curtis in particular likes letting the opposition know when they are playing poorly and we took it without a whimper of resistance. Watched a bit of Saints v Pies tonight and Nick Daicos getting manhandled by his tagger and the Pies at every opportunity give it toWindhager and let him know they won't put up with any crap from him against their star mid. We just lack effort and spirit and it's sad to see...
Xerri put TDK into the fence and nothing from his mates.
It's a lack of team spirit and care for your teammates, the good teams have it and it's a non negotiable imo. Why would a young player want to come to Carlton when you see stuff like that..?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Bluesers on June 21, 2025, 09:45:28 pm
The critical questions... Do we persist with Voss or not? Do we blow it up and start again?
IMO, those questions were being asked too often during the second half of last season; after R1 of this year the answers became very obvious.. Yes he has to go, so do large parts of our list and our totally inept recruiting dept. Despite the excuses some of the die hard fans here like to whip out week after week, huge changes have to be made or we will be wallowing with the Weagles for the next 2-4 yrs. Wrighty has a huge task ahead of him. Mediocrity has become the standard at this club unfortunately.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: shawny on June 21, 2025, 10:05:09 pm
I did say North at $4 was crazy odds pre game.
im not in the camp that we only need minor changes. Come on guys we have had one decent win all year the rest were against teams not playing in sept. We are miles absolutely miles off the best teams.
We need major changes on all levels -coaching and on field to improve and even then i cant see this list ever competing with the very best teams. We have little to no depth, have several overrated so called stars and big holes on every line that never seem to be addressed.
Big offseason coming folks.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: tex on June 21, 2025, 11:04:44 pm
Xerri put TDK into the fence and nothing from his mates.
It's a lack of team spirit and care for your teammates, the good teams have it and it's a non negotiable imo. Why would a young player want to come to Carlton when you see stuff like that..?
The only players we’ve had like that are Nic Newman and Matt Kennedy 1 injured, 1 traded. Most of our fwd line are soft cocks too
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: pinot on June 21, 2025, 11:38:27 pm
List needs to be semi nuked. Cripps to WCE - too many slow players in the midfield and WCE will pay up McKay to Melbourne/Sydney/Brisbane - is becoming more blatant by the day Motlop and Kemp trade TDK - trade Docherty, Evans, White, Fantasia, McGovern, Cincotta - delist
Need as many future picks (2026) as possible before Tasmania
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: RiverRat on June 21, 2025, 11:38:56 pm
List needs to be semi nuked. Cripps to WCE - too many slow players in the midfield and WCE will pay up McKay to Melbourne/Sydney/Brisbane - is becoming more blatant by the day Motlop and Kemp trade TDK - trade Docherty, Evans, White, Fantasia, McGovern, Cincotta - delist
Need as many future picks (2026) as possible before Tasmania
Cripps no! Talk about destroying team morale. Motlop yes Kemp no McKay no but Curnow .... TDK YES McGovern and Cinc no the rest yes Walsh no
We just have too many key players injured. Voss is coaching with one arm tied behind his back. Needs better assistants, heaps better.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Adelaideblue on June 22, 2025, 08:54:43 am
Yep, we are all shattered at how the Blues are performing this year, but no point in mass depression or hysteria! Hopefully Voss & Co will use the rest of season 2025 to get games into the young talent waiting for their chance, incl. Ben Campo., O'Farrell, Moir, Flynn Young etc
Ab
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Baggers on June 22, 2025, 08:58:27 am
We stuffed up when we replaced Ratten with Malthouse and repeated the stuff up when we replaced Teague with Voss.
Aint that the truth, Ye Rat O' the River. Voss was our third choice. That seldom works out well! We were sold Voss on that he had senior coach experience... Um, that was senior coach failure and his results with us have pretty much tracked with his results at BrisVegas.
As an aside, I was gobsmacked when I saw Voss publicly lay into Jaxon Binns at 3/4 time. If folks want to know what 'scapegoating' looks like, there you have it. Weak as p1ss. He owes the kid an apology. It was the on-field leadership, and his own leadership that required berating.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: cookie2 on June 22, 2025, 09:15:04 am
i never liked the voss appointment and nothing ive seen changes that.
I admit to having had some initial reservations but then became more accepting of him. As with his predecessors though the players seem to have drifted away from him .
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: madbluboy on June 22, 2025, 09:17:11 am
So Voss could coach up until 12 months ago and then he suddenly lost the ability to?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: JonDorotich on June 22, 2025, 09:22:12 am
List needs to be semi nuked. Cripps to WCE - too many slow players in the midfield and WCE will pay up McKay to Melbourne/Sydney/Brisbane - is becoming more blatant by the day Motlop and Kemp trade TDK - trade Docherty, Evans, White, Fantasia, McGovern, Cincotta - delist
Need as many future picks (2026) as possible before Tasmania
Cripps no! Talk about destroying team morale. Motlop yes Kemp no McKay no but Curnow .... TDK YES McGovern and Cinc no the rest yes Walsh no
We just have too many key players injured. Voss is coaching with one arm tied behind his back. Needs better assistants, heaps better.
There is some truth to this, however at critical moments our “key players” don’t step up and often make poor decisions - a long winded way of saying we’re not very good, compounded by an average game plan and some bewildering recruitment choices.
At the very least a mini rebuild is needed
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Thryleon on June 22, 2025, 09:32:55 am
The reality is, we aren't a well run club.
You want to see what happens to a club not being run well?
Look at Manchester United. They were the epitome of what well run looks like up until about the mid 2000's. In 2013 their most successfulcoach called time on hus career and theve looked like carlton ever since which shows what a good individuals can do to keep a place buoyant.
Review their history since that day though. They resemble Carlton. Shelling out big money for signings, looking for saviours where none exist, scapegoating players and coaches, lack of succession planning, no real method to the madness, neglecting key parts of their operations and have finally become a rabble finishing with their worst modern day result i can remember this season.
Contrast that to Liverpool. A side who have been a bridesmaid for the better part of the last 35 years.
In 2010, Fenway sports group purchased them. They have put some very astute people together to help run the club in a method that was the hallmark of what a professionally run football club looks like. They broke their 30 year premiership drought in 2020, won the uefa champions league and did so without the oil backing their rivals at Manchester city have enjoyed. They are promoting kids from their academy, and have just had a coach who helped transform the place depart, brought in the data driven replacement who used the exact same squad to win the premiership for the second time since FSG bought them.
This took years to bear fruit. At Carlton we cant see past 3 or 4 years and dont have the same luxury as these organisations do to transform our fortunes.
Thats why we are all dissapointed. We've come to the reality that the SOS era was just another false dawn.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: tonyo on June 22, 2025, 09:35:49 am
We don't need a full rebuild. We can turn this around for next season if we make the right moves.
Totally agree. But we need to find better foot soldiers. And create a development plan that produces better foot soldiers.
I think Voss's big error is he is putting too much hope in the fact that a handful of A-Graders can constantly drag the whole team over the line.
Once you get past our top 10, we are very poor.
I've seen this before with coaches who were gun players themselves (apart from a couple of exceptions like Barassi and Matthews) - they never get the best out of the average list players, because they don't understand the mind-set needed to be a role player in a team.
That's why the coaches with the best record are often average footballers who had to work so hard to get a kick and think far more about the game - Hardwick, Clarkson, Beveridge, the Scotts, even Malthouse, Pagan and Hafey.
They know exactly what it takes for a role-player to be effective in a team, and they structure that way.
We will never be a serious challenger while we have superstars surrounded by spuds - who end up being the weakest link. The spuds don't turn into chips, and the superstars get increasingly disenchanted.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: JonDorotich on June 22, 2025, 10:42:11 am
We don't need a full rebuild. We can turn this around for next season if we make the right moves.
Totally agree. But we need to find better foot soldiers. And create a development plan that produces better foot soldiers.
I think Voss's big error is he is putting too much hope in the fact that a handful of A-Graders can constantly drag the whole team over the line.
Once you get past our top 10, we are very poor.
I've seen this before with coaches who were gun players themselves (apart from a couple of exceptions like Barassi and Matthews) - they never get the best out of the average list players, because they don't understand the mind-set needed to be a role player in a team.
That's why the coaches with the best record are often average footballers who had to work so hard to get a kick and think far more about the game - Hardwick, Clarkson, Beveridge, the Scotts, even Malthouse, Pagan and Hafey.
They know exactly what it takes for a role-player to be effective in a team, and they structure that way.
We will never be a serious challenger while we have superstars surrounded by spuds - who end up being the weakest link. The spuds don't turn into chips, and the superstars get increasingly disenchanted.
A great post
People will laugh but it may be time to consider a successful coach from a different code - the ex-player DNA pool (including assistants) is limited, so the chances of finding the next Clarkson from the pool is a very low probability.
I’d bet that we’re a much higher chance of challenging conventional ways of moving the ball with a master coach of another code - soccer given the professionalism and years of development to create space/defensive structures which leaves the afl in the dust.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Micky0 on June 22, 2025, 10:44:25 am
Interesting thought there Tonyo, that makes sense to me.
I like Voss the person and I was happy he was appointed - remember there was a big push to get Ross Lyon or Clarko / Ross Lyon no thank you, am wondering if some mongrel having Clarko would’ve been beneficial tho, in hindsight.
I was wondering who Voss was giving a spray to. Binns has played a handful Of games ffs and looks to run his arse off. Ok maybe what he wasn’t doing was creating issues elsewhere I don’t know. But we have some (seemingly) protected star players and I’m not sure berating a kid publicly is the way to go.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Micky0 on June 22, 2025, 10:45:37 am
On that why was Motlop the sub? And why did we sub Lord for him?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 22, 2025, 10:50:44 am
Interesting thought there Tonyo, that makes sense to me.
I like Voss the person and I was happy he was appointed - remember there was a big push to get Ross Lyon or Clarko / Ross Lyon no thank you, am wondering if some mongrel having Clarko would’ve been beneficial tho, in hindsight.
I was wondering who Voss was giving a spray to. Binns has played a handful Of games ffs and looks to run his arse off. Ok maybe what he wasn’t doing was creating issues elsewhere I don’t know. But we have some (seemingly) protected star players and I’m not sure berated a kid publicly is the way to go.
Think I lip read what Voss was saying and it was along the lines of play your effing role.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: LP on June 22, 2025, 10:57:21 am
Think I lip read what Voss was saying and it was along the lines of play your effing role.
100% on the money, he went off at players being individuals, and we all know what individuals are! (https://i.makeagif.com/media/12-14-2015/x5X5-Z.gif) Proper c@#$heads!
Maybe Voss needs to have a weekly "JACKO" award, the footy equivalent of a NAGA or Freedman's PINEAPPLE! I'm not sure this generation responds to that sort of stuff well, but it would at least expose those who can cope and those who can't!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: LP on June 22, 2025, 11:02:56 am
On that why was Motlop the sub? And why did we sub Lord for him?
Lord had a shocker, barely touched the pill for 1/2 a game.
That's the problem with fans calling for us to play the kids, they get better through learning but they aren't going to help the squad get better, and the same people that call for the kids to be played will be calling for them to be axed a minute after the final siren.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Micky0 on June 22, 2025, 11:03:56 am
What I noticed also yesterday was how terrible Our handballing is - I’ve said before the long slow loping handballs we do, but it’s the inside close ones too - we just could not do it without it being turned over or tackled. Roos did it much better than us.
I don’t believe that players over all the clubs are that much better or worse tbh. To get to AFL level you have a baseline of skills that are more or less same as others on lists / besides the out and out superstars. So it has to come down to skill development. I feel we’ve never developed players very well, generally. Except the A graders who are well above anyway.
I missed the first quarter too - apparently we missed two goals right in front and not far? How does that happen? Sure crap happens but the same crap seems to happen with us every week.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Micky0 on June 22, 2025, 11:05:46 am
On that why was Motlop the sub? And why did we sub Lord for him?
Lord had a shocker, barely touched the pill for 1/2 a game.
That's the problem with fans calling for us to play the kids, they get better through learning but they aren't going to help the squad get better, and the same people that call for the kids to be played will be calling for them to be axed a minute after the final siren.
Yep fair enough re Lord - I guess seeing Doch and Fantasia make costly errors makes me call for their head but I acknowledge I may not see the 20 other good disposals they make against a Lord who does nothing wrong but also doesn’t get near it.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: LP on June 22, 2025, 11:07:52 am
I missed the first quarter too - apparently we missed two goals right in front and not far? How does that happen? Sure crap happens but the same crap seems to happen with us every week.
It's all headspace issues @Micky0 , I'd be sacking the club psychologist Monday morning because our lot isn't coping, they aren't resilient. I've stated this before, it's like we have a play safe mentality in the middle of a war zone. Under pressure limbs turn to jelly, disposal skills suffer, it was fully on show with that post siren kick from McGovern last season.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: LP on June 22, 2025, 11:13:37 am
On McGovern, after his early wobbles I noticed yesterday he was pumping up the team, it was good to see.
Buy why did it take the premature end to his brother's career before he realised this gig isn't going to last!
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: crashlander on June 22, 2025, 11:32:33 am
I haven't commented about this game since it finished; I don't want to regret anything I write more than I have to. I missed the game due to my rib and haven't seen a second of it yet. However, I find it difficult to understand that we can play so meekly against a team we exterminated not many weeks ago. It is a 15 goal turnaround.
Forget sacking the coach on Monday; that sort of overreaction didn't help in the last few years and wouldn't help today. Forget trading out good players for peanuts; that isn't going to help us in the short term either. We play another game on Thursday night against another team that is struggling. If we don't show up ...
The thing to do is to learn from our losses. We need to work out who is going to be part of the future and who isn't. We need to work out which coach is doing what we need and which isn't. We need to determine which of the off-field issues is holding us back. We need to reassess our fitness regime. We have 9 matches to do this, as we are not going to play finals.
If there is any issue among the players, we need to find it and address it, so humiliations like this do not happen again.
This draft is looking as ordinary as it was expected to be last year. Yes, we need a couple of decent selections to get guys like Harry Dean and Jack Ison, but I wouldn't b e trading out too much to get those picks. Then we look to the next draft and Cody Walker. That draft cohort is looking stronger at the moment, although it is a fair way from being a fait accompli. Then we need to get our injured players right, so that when the next pre-season starts, they are ready to make an impact.
The time for crying over spilt milk is over; it happened, we can't do anything about that now. Now we prepare for the future and we get it right! 30 years is too long.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: PaulP on June 22, 2025, 11:54:29 am
It wasn't so long ago that Brisbane and North drew, R9 to be precise, with both teams having the same set shots and the same goals/behinds. It also wasn't so long ago that we beat North by 82 points. Maybe supporters and the AFL world are catastrophizing a little.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: blueboys_1 on June 22, 2025, 11:55:33 am
The critical questions... Do we persist with Voss or not? Do we blow it up and start again?
Who would you pick? Who is available? Experienced coaches only.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: PaulP on June 22, 2025, 12:00:22 pm
I would tell Pagan to ditch the horses and houses and offer him $2M per season.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: kruddler on June 22, 2025, 12:20:00 pm
I was at the game and haven't watched the replay.....and won't, once was enough.
I had a few suspicions at the ground, and have only just looked into them now
1. Corey Durdin. 75% game time. 7 touches. 0 goals. 0 behinds. 0 tackles. 0 clearances. 0 goal assists. 2 turnovers. 2 clangers. Why are we playing him? What does he give us? He was useless yesterday.
2. Jesse Motlop. 29% game time. 10 touches 1 goal 1 behind. 1 tackle. 2 clearances. 0 goal assists. 0 turnovers. 1 clanger Why are we not playing him more? Specifically, in the middle. Every man and his dog has seen him play great footy this year and its no coincidence that his best games are when he is run through the middle. It works. He plays well. Then next week, we stick him in a pocket and wonder why he doesn't perform as well. Put him where the ball is!
3. Weitering. Not sure how much they showed on TV, but weitering was down, looking like he was shot for a good few minutes before they stopped the game and helped him hop/limp off. He was in A LOT of pain rocking back and forth and hitting the ground. Why we decided to risk him and bring him back i don't understand. Once they did he was next to useless in the contests. He got a couple of good spoil in contests he went too, but he hung out the back in twice as many contests giving them the outnumber. He wasn't trying to be a 'sweeper' either as there was other carlton players behind the contest doing that job already. He became a liability and put his own health at risk further. Whatever it was, he reinjured it in the 3rd quarter up on the wing and hobbled all the way back to the goal square. Stupid for playing him injured. We've learned nothing from last year.
4. Why didn't we play Lemmey? Was the perfect week to play him. You can guarantee that he would've given his all to 'prove his worth' and not rolled over like so many others did. His size would've helped us with Weiters as well allowing Gov to switch back, or go back himself. But no. Only reason you can justify not playing him is if we've marked his cards and that he will be out the door at seasons end. Charlie clearly wasn't fit and Lemmey could've given us something different.
5. Doc and Saad.....and Haynes. They are on the wrong side of 30. Still got some good footy left, but that is getting few and far between. I think all of them are relatively lucky we don't have a kid coming through taking their spot. Might be a changing of the guard in the off-season if we can't recapture some legitimate form in 2025.
6. Cripps. 2025 version isn't fit to tie 2024 versions shoelaces. He won the brownlow with the biggest tally in history and this year he's lucky to make the bests. He is currently averages his 2nd lowest possession tally since wearing the #9 at carlton. Only covid 2020 has been worse. (Note: he started in #16 in his first season and averaged 9, then switched to #9 and dominated).
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 22, 2025, 12:38:25 pm
I think Terry from Blue Abroad summed it up beautifully, "we are financially thriving and we are spiritually bankrupt". 👏👏👏👏 Hats off to you Terry.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 22, 2025, 01:47:38 pm
I was at the game and haven't watched the replay.....and won't, once was enough.
I had a few suspicions at the ground, and have only just looked into them now
1. Corey Durdin. 75% game time. 7 touches. 0 goals. 0 behinds. 0 tackles. 0 clearances. 0 goal assists. 2 turnovers. 2 clangers. Why are we playing him? What does he give us? He was useless yesterday.
2. Jesse Motlop. 29% game time. 10 touches 1 goal 1 behind. 1 tackle. 2 clearances. 0 goal assists. 0 turnovers. 1 clanger Why are we not playing him more? Specifically, in the middle. Every man and his dog has seen him play great footy this year and its no coincidence that his best games are when he is run through the middle. It works. He plays well. Then next week, we stick him in a pocket and wonder why he doesn't perform as well. Put him where the ball is!
3. Weitering. Not sure how much they showed on TV, but weitering was down, looking like he was shot for a good few minutes before they stopped the game and helped him hop/limp off. He was in A LOT of pain rocking back and forth and hitting the ground. Why we decided to risk him and bring him back i don't understand. Once they did he was next to useless in the contests. He got a couple of good spoil in contests he went too, but he hung out the back in twice as many contests giving them the outnumber. He wasn't trying to be a 'sweeper' either as there was other carlton players behind the contest doing that job already. He became a liability and put his own health at risk further. Whatever it was, he reinjured it in the 3rd quarter up on the wing and hobbled all the way back to the goal square. Stupid for playing him injured. We've learned nothing from last year.
4. Why didn't we play Lemmey? Was the perfect week to play him. You can guarantee that he would've given his all to 'prove his worth' and not rolled over like so many others did. His size would've helped us with Weiters as well allowing Gov to switch back, or go back himself. But no. Only reason you can justify not playing him is if we've marked his cards and that he will be out the door at seasons end. Charlie clearly wasn't fit and Lemmey could've given us something different.
5. Doc and Saad.....and Haynes. They are on the wrong side of 30. Still got some good footy left, but that is getting few and far between. I think all of them are relatively lucky we don't have a kid coming through taking their spot. Might be a changing of the guard in the off-season if we can't recapture some legitimate form in 2025.
6. Cripps. 2025 version isn't fit to tie 2024 versions shoelaces. He won the brownlow with the biggest tally in history and this year he's lucky to make the bests. He is currently averages his 2nd lowest possession tally since wearing the #9 at carlton. Only covid 2020 has been worse. (Note: he started in #16 in his first season and averaged 9, then switched to #9 and dominated).
Clarkson learnt from last time and played Larkey up the ground and had him in that Jeremy Cameron type role. That doesnt suit Weitering who looked sore even before he did his ankle imo. Cincotta on Caleb Daniel was a strange move, didnt like Haynes on Zurhaar or Saad on Curtis either,lucky the latter didnt kick straight. McKercher didnt have an opponent all day not that we had anyone who could catch him and Cripps couldnt break his tag, think it was Powell and no one else did much to help him. Our small forwards were non effective I actually thought Williams tried hard when pushed up the ground and was one of our best, not a real fan but credit where its due he looked like he was making an effort unlike some of the others who had been bullied into submission.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Baggers on June 22, 2025, 02:18:13 pm
I think Terry from Blue Abroad summed it up beautifully, "we are financially thriving and we are spiritually bankrupt". 👏👏👏👏 Hats off to you Terry.
I also heard that, GTC, and rocked back in my ergonomic chair and clapped. I feel the same way. It's as if our sphincter like game-plan is sucking the soul out of our players and club. The spirit of PP is evaporating. We're a boldness free zone. We are not that bad.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Baggers on June 22, 2025, 02:21:25 pm
I was at the game and haven't watched the replay.....and won't, once was enough.
I had a few suspicions at the ground, and have only just looked into them now
1. Corey Durdin. 75% game time. 7 touches. 0 goals. 0 behinds. 0 tackles. 0 clearances. 0 goal assists. 2 turnovers. 2 clangers. Why are we playing him? What does he give us? He was useless yesterday.
2. Jesse Motlop. 29% game time. 10 touches 1 goal 1 behind. 1 tackle. 2 clearances. 0 goal assists. 0 turnovers. 1 clanger Why are we not playing him more? Specifically, in the middle. Every man and his dog has seen him play great footy this year and its no coincidence that his best games are when he is run through the middle. It works. He plays well. Then next week, we stick him in a pocket and wonder why he doesn't perform as well. Put him where the ball is!
3. Weitering. Not sure how much they showed on TV, but weitering was down, looking like he was shot for a good few minutes before they stopped the game and helped him hop/limp off. He was in A LOT of pain rocking back and forth and hitting the ground. Why we decided to risk him and bring him back i don't understand. Once they did he was next to useless in the contests. He got a couple of good spoil in contests he went too, but he hung out the back in twice as many contests giving them the outnumber. He wasn't trying to be a 'sweeper' either as there was other carlton players behind the contest doing that job already. He became a liability and put his own health at risk further. Whatever it was, he reinjured it in the 3rd quarter up on the wing and hobbled all the way back to the goal square. Stupid for playing him injured. We've learned nothing from last year.
4. Why didn't we play Lemmey? Was the perfect week to play him. You can guarantee that he would've given his all to 'prove his worth' and not rolled over like so many others did. His size would've helped us with Weiters as well allowing Gov to switch back, or go back himself. But no. Only reason you can justify not playing him is if we've marked his cards and that he will be out the door at seasons end. Charlie clearly wasn't fit and Lemmey could've given us something different.
5. Doc and Saad.....and Haynes. They are on the wrong side of 30. Still got some good footy left, but that is getting few and far between. I think all of them are relatively lucky we don't have a kid coming through taking their spot. Might be a changing of the guard in the off-season if we can't recapture some legitimate form in 2025.
6. Cripps. 2025 version isn't fit to tie 2024 versions shoelaces. He won the brownlow with the biggest tally in history and this year he's lucky to make the bests. He is currently averages his 2nd lowest possession tally since wearing the #9 at carlton. Only covid 2020 has been worse. (Note: he started in #16 in his first season and averaged 9, then switched to #9 and dominated).
I found myself nodding as I read this thoughtful contribution, K.
We have had a habit over the Voss duration of playing injured blokes. Not saying it's Vossy's doing. But you're right, Weiters, Crippa and Acres need resting... Don't ask them if they're okay to play because players will just about always say yes.
Sometimes it is really important for leaders who are injured to admit to themselves and their team mates that they're not up to it; that they can't play through the injury and give their best.
Totally agree (and have said it before) we must stop playing sentimental favourites - Fantasia and Durdin in particular.
Ollie Hollands is being beaten up down back - let him run and be creative. Cowan is ready to replace him.
We disagree on Lemmey. Still isn't imposing himself enough. However, HOF is ready and a must. He's played forward and not looked out of place.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Thryleon on June 22, 2025, 02:39:06 pm
Its funny right.
We've been here before. https://afltables.com/afl/stats/coaches/carlton.html
If we sack vossy, he'll be the best coach weve sacked since David parkin. His current record is better than Rattens in terms of win percentage.
Are we sure this is the right reign to be pulling?
On the what we have done lately measure maybe, but im not convinced.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: PaulP on June 22, 2025, 02:46:59 pm
We've been here before. https://afltables.com/afl/stats/coaches/carlton.html
If we sack vossy, he'll be the best coach weve sacked since David parkin. His current record is better than Rattens in terms of win percentage.
Are we sure this is the right reign to be pulling?
On the what we have done lately measure maybe, but im not convinced.
It won't matter to the anti Voss brigade. They just keep moving the goalposts, and looking sideways to justify their dogmas : in his 4th year we should be better, the list is better than the results indicate, no plan B, no match day tactical nous, was never a fan from day 1 etc.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Bluesers on June 22, 2025, 03:06:25 pm
We've been here before. https://afltables.com/afl/stats/coaches/carlton.html
If we sack vossy, he'll be the best coach weve sacked since David parkin. His current record is better than Rattens in terms of win percentage.
Are we sure this is the right reign to be pulling?
On the what we have done lately measure maybe, but im not convinced.
It won't matter to the anti Voss brigade. They just keep moving the goalposts, and looking sideways to justify their dogmas : in his 4th year we should be better, the list is better than the results indicate, no plan B, no match day tactical nous, was never a fan from day 1 etc.
Just like it won't matter if you, me or anybody else here is pro or anti-voss, or somewhere in the middle. Our opinions are just that, opinions, and they are like sphincters, everyone has one. But something is certain we can all agree on.... there are issues/problem/s at the cfc, and hopefully they get identified and actioned by mr.wright in the very near future.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: PaulP on June 22, 2025, 03:14:52 pm
Just like it won't matter if you, me or anybody else here is pro or anti-voss, or somewhere in the middle. Our opinions are just that, opinions, and they are like sphincters, everyone has one. But something is certain we can all agree on.... there are issues/problem/s at the cfc, and hopefully they get identified and actioned by mr.wright in the very near future.
Changing coaches every few years hasn't worked. There's 20 years of clear evidence for that. I'm suggesting a very basic, simple logic of trying something different, something that has proven successful at the Tigers, Cats, Crows etc. Weather the storm, don't cr@p yourself at the first sign of trouble (a CFC specialty), and show some spine.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Lods on June 22, 2025, 03:29:07 pm
Any coach change is in the hands of those with the best knowledge of club dynamics, relationships and performance A couple of experienced and professional operators. One has a history of sticking with coaches, even when they're under the pump. If Voss goes before his contract is up it will be for very good reasons and not tied in any way to Carlton's history of sacking coaches.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: laj on June 22, 2025, 03:47:44 pm
Watching a skit on ch.9. We had blokes on the outside that we failed to use that would have seen us so easy set up a goal, we had space where a bloke could run into for the kicker, no one ran into it, one more kick after that and it's a 1 on 1. instead everyone ran back to goals with their back to the kicker. In each of those cases we went short and sideways, eventually turning it over. No wonder scoring is tough work.
Being a forward would be a nightmare at Carlton. They are given no hope.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: laj on June 22, 2025, 03:54:09 pm
We've been here before. https://afltables.com/afl/stats/coaches/carlton.html
If we sack vossy, he'll be the best coach weve sacked since David parkin. His current record is better than Rattens in terms of win percentage.
Are we sure this is the right reign to be pulling?
On the what we have done lately measure maybe, but im not convinced.
Ratts though had to take over utter rubbish from Pagan late in the season then had to tank the last 6 games of 2007. Then lost the first 3 games of 2008. He was 9 behind before he started. Until 2011 we improved over the 3 years until the 2012 disaster. Other coaches haven't done that. Voss had half a good year in 2023 and a good 19 rounds in 2024. Been awful ever since.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: laj on June 22, 2025, 04:02:07 pm
Just like it won't matter if you, me or anybody else here is pro or anti-voss, or somewhere in the middle. Our opinions are just that, opinions, and they are like sphincters, everyone has one. But something is certain we can all agree on.... there are issues/problem/s at the cfc, and hopefully they get identified and actioned by mr.wright in the very near future.
Changing coaches every few years hasn't worked. There's 20 years of clear evidence for that. I'm suggesting a very basic, simple logic of trying something different, something that has proven successful at the Tigers, Cats, Crows etc. Weather the storm, don't cr@p yourself at the first sign of trouble (a CFC specialty), and show some spine.
You're right but the tail wags the dog and once the players get sick of their voices they stop playing for them. Very sadly, you end up having to change them. Becomes a pointless, frustrating exercise for the coach. They'd have more enjoyment then as an assistant elsewhere. We've changed coaches, overhauled playing lists, and still nothing. Nothing will change unless the deep, prevailing inner culture changes, as it did for Richmond after their 2016 disaster. They were no different to us now then, with a million coach changes and 37 years without a flag. 2016 was their lghtbulb moment. Until we have a lightbulb moment this is our lot. Only thing is we play our best footy in the first year of a coach's tenure when they are more enthisiastic. Can't be changing the coach every 12 months though....haha.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 22, 2025, 04:19:38 pm
I think Terry from Blue Abroad summed it up beautifully, "we are financially thriving and we are spiritually bankrupt". 👏👏👏👏 Hats off to you Terry.
I also heard that, GTC, and rocked back in my ergonomic chair and clapped. I feel the same way. It's as if our sphincter like game-plan is sucking the soul out of our players and club. The spirit of PP is evaporating. We're a boldness free zone. We are not that bad.
Its not game plan IMO.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: laj on June 22, 2025, 04:32:54 pm
Seriously, our best two efforts in our last 20 games (bar the Geelong win) were in rounds 23 and 24 last year when we literally had 20 blokes missing. We did lose round 24 to a St.Kilda in the last 12 seconds, a side that was white hot late in the year, albeit to late, but the thing was we had run, dare and spread with the young blokes. Something we have none of now. Other was an 11 goal thumping of the Eagles in Perth but with 20 blokes unavailable you shouldn't even be winning that, let alone by 11 goals. They were 2 of the few times we attempted to play like a footy team should. So much different to now.
Funnily enough, we have won 6 of our last 10. If we had've beaten the Swans and North as we should, it would have been 8. Admittedly, Geelong was the only really good team.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: PaulP on June 22, 2025, 04:38:58 pm
Ratten will always be popular among the Carlton faithful - nice bloke, club champion, significant personal tragedy. But his records at both Carlton and St Kilda are virtually identical. I get that fans will always go in to bat for him, but taking the data on its own terms, it suggests an OK, mid table, nibbling-at-finals coach, and nothing more.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: PaulP on June 22, 2025, 04:43:08 pm
You're right but the tail wags the dog and once the players get sick of their voices they stop playing for them. Very sadly, you end up having to change them. Becomes a pointless, frustrating exercise for the coach. They'd have more enjoyment then as an assistant elsewhere. We've changed coaches, overhauled playing lists, and still nothing. Nothing will change unless the deep, prevailing inner culture changes, as it did for Richmond after their 2016 disaster. They were no different to us now then, with a million coach changes and 37 years without a flag. 2016 was their light bulb moment. Until we have a light bulb moment this is our lot. Only thing is we play our best footy in the first year of a coach's tenure when they are more enthusiastic. Can't be changing the coach every 12 months though....haha.
I would speculate and say that with the Tigers and their 2016 season, their light bulb moment was that even though the players had switched off to Hardwick's voice, and that they "stopped playing for him", the higher ups refused to let the tail wag the dog, and kept him on. Might be something there for us to think about.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: kruddler on June 22, 2025, 04:56:47 pm
I was at the game and haven't watched the replay.....and won't, once was enough.
I had a few suspicions at the ground, and have only just looked into them now
1. Corey Durdin. 75% game time. 7 touches. 0 goals. 0 behinds. 0 tackles. 0 clearances. 0 goal assists. 2 turnovers. 2 clangers. Why are we playing him? What does he give us? He was useless yesterday.
2. Jesse Motlop. 29% game time. 10 touches 1 goal 1 behind. 1 tackle. 2 clearances. 0 goal assists. 0 turnovers. 1 clanger Why are we not playing him more? Specifically, in the middle. Every man and his dog has seen him play great footy this year and its no coincidence that his best games are when he is run through the middle. It works. He plays well. Then next week, we stick him in a pocket and wonder why he doesn't perform as well. Put him where the ball is!
3. Weitering. Not sure how much they showed on TV, but weitering was down, looking like he was shot for a good few minutes before they stopped the game and helped him hop/limp off. He was in A LOT of pain rocking back and forth and hitting the ground. Why we decided to risk him and bring him back i don't understand. Once they did he was next to useless in the contests. He got a couple of good spoil in contests he went too, but he hung out the back in twice as many contests giving them the outnumber. He wasn't trying to be a 'sweeper' either as there was other carlton players behind the contest doing that job already. He became a liability and put his own health at risk further. Whatever it was, he reinjured it in the 3rd quarter up on the wing and hobbled all the way back to the goal square. Stupid for playing him injured. We've learned nothing from last year.
4. Why didn't we play Lemmey? Was the perfect week to play him. You can guarantee that he would've given his all to 'prove his worth' and not rolled over like so many others did. His size would've helped us with Weiters as well allowing Gov to switch back, or go back himself. But no. Only reason you can justify not playing him is if we've marked his cards and that he will be out the door at seasons end. Charlie clearly wasn't fit and Lemmey could've given us something different.
5. Doc and Saad.....and Haynes. They are on the wrong side of 30. Still got some good footy left, but that is getting few and far between. I think all of them are relatively lucky we don't have a kid coming through taking their spot. Might be a changing of the guard in the off-season if we can't recapture some legitimate form in 2025.
6. Cripps. 2025 version isn't fit to tie 2024 versions shoelaces. He won the brownlow with the biggest tally in history and this year he's lucky to make the bests. He is currently averages his 2nd lowest possession tally since wearing the #9 at carlton. Only covid 2020 has been worse. (Note: he started in #16 in his first season and averaged 9, then switched to #9 and dominated).
I found myself nodding as I read this thoughtful contribution, K.
We have had a habit over the Voss duration of playing injured blokes. Not saying it's Vossy's doing. But you're right, Weiters, Crippa and Acres need resting... Don't ask them if they're okay to play because players will just about always say yes.
Sometimes it is really important for leaders who are injured to admit to themselves and their team mates that they're not up to it; that they can't play through the injury and give their best.
Totally agree (and have said it before) we must stop playing sentimental favourites - Fantasia and Durdin in particular.
Ollie Hollands is being beaten up down back - let him run and be creative. Cowan is ready to replace him.
We disagree on Lemmey. Still isn't imposing himself enough. However, HOF is ready and a must. He's played forward and not looked out of place.
Only thing i'll say on Lemmey is this.
Did we have more to gain, or more to learn by playing a half fit Curnow or a fully fit Lemmey?
Whether we got a 5-goal haul or a 3 possession game out of Lemmey, we would've learned something. We didn't learn anything by playing a half-fit curnow. I'd say we learned not to play a half fit Curnow, but we didn't learn that last year, and don't think we learned it this time. So we learned nothing.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: crashlander on June 22, 2025, 05:25:53 pm
Ratten will always be popular among the Carlton faithful - nice bloke, club champion, significant personal tragedy. But his records at both Carlton and St Kilda are virtually identical. I get that fans will always go in to bat for him, but taking the data on its own terms, it suggests an OK, mid table, nibbling-at-finals coach, and nothing more.
I'm not surprised with Ratt's lack of success as a coach. He reacts very slowly when things don't go as they should. His basic planning is good, but when things change, he doesn't until it is too late. And when it happened, the players didn't believe in the moves far too often. Voss is similar. His basic planning is not that bad, but when it doesn't work, he's not in his element. Guys don't tend to come back with Voss in charge.
What made Barassi such a winner was that he did role with the punches. If things didn't work out, he would change things and the players KNEW it was a step forward. They often lifted. Parkin was similar, if not to the extent of Barassi. Sheedy did it better, (damn it). Players believed in his moves.
Collingwood are successful at the moment because they have a superior game plan and a level of self-belief that our guys lack. We have neither.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: kruddler on June 22, 2025, 05:32:59 pm
Ratten will always be popular among the Carlton faithful - nice bloke, club champion, significant personal tragedy. But his records at both Carlton and St Kilda are virtually identical. I get that fans will always go in to bat for him, but taking the data on its own terms, it suggests an OK, mid table, nibbling-at-finals coach, and nothing more.
I'm not surprised with Ratt's lack of success as a coach. He reacts very slowly when things don't go as they should. His basic planning is good, but when things change, he doesn't until it is too late. And when it happened, the players didn't believe in the moves far too often. Voss is similar. His basic planning is not that bad, but when it doesn't work, he's not in his element. Guys don't tend to come back with Voss in charge.
What made Barassi such a winner was that he did role with the punches. If things didn't work out, he would change things and the players KNEW it was a step forward. They often lifted. Parkin was similar, if not to the extent of Barassi. Sheedy did it better, (damn it). Players believed in his moves.
Collingwood are successful at the moment because they have a superior game plan and a level of self-belief that our guys lack. We have neither.
In all honesty, in the modern game, should this fall at the feet of the head coach?
How often do you get a coach who is great at delivering a message, but ALSO great at devising a game plan and ALSO great at countering moves on game day etc
Why don't we get Voss to deliver the main message, get the players up and motivated. Get assistants to devise the game plan. A game day coach to deliver tactical adjustments.
Instead of chasing tail and trying to find the best modern day coach.
Why don't we change the 'game' and rewrite the rules on how a coach and coaching department works.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: kruddler on June 22, 2025, 05:40:23 pm
To anyone who didn't watch the game. This is about how interested we looked. https://www.theroar.com.au/afl/video/ordering-a-hot-dog-baffling-blues-defensive-laziness-leaves-weitering-wondering-why-he-bothers-1433994/?
Clink the link, watch the video. Shake your head and move onto next week
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: LordLucifer on June 22, 2025, 05:51:21 pm
Yep, we are all shattered at how the Blues are performing this year, but no point in mass depression or hysteria! Hopefully Voss & Co will use the rest of season 2025 to get games into the young talent waiting for their chance, incl. Ben Campo., O'Farrell, Moir, Flynn Young etc
Ab
No chance, Voss is coaching for his career.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 22, 2025, 06:24:56 pm
Voss is in a different boat to Ratten, Bolton and Teague, he is a retread coach who has been tried and failed at Brisbane. The others were all in their first coaching job as were the examples in Damian Hardwick and Mark Thompson used by those suggesting Voss deserves the same get out of jail card and push the theory that failure is acceptable because it has to eventually turn to success if you are patient. Voss has had nearly nine years as a senior coach and thats a fair sample size imo and I also think his work at Brisbane including their list management/recruiting also has to be taken into account and what state it was in when he was replaced. Its up to Wright and the Board to determine if they stick fat with him at seasons end but he needs reviewing with a different perspective to any previous coaches we have had during our recent dark years imho.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Bluesers on June 22, 2025, 06:54:33 pm
Yep, we are all shattered at how the Blues are performing this year, but no point in mass depression or hysteria! Hopefully Voss & Co will use the rest of season 2025 to get games into the young talent waiting for their chance, incl. Ben Campo., O'Farrell, Moir, Flynn Young etc
Ab
No chance, Voss is coaching for his career.
Correct, I said exactly that about 8-9 weeks ago. Voss won't get too creative now, there's far too much pressure on him.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 22, 2025, 06:58:19 pm
Correct, I said exactly that about 8-9 weeks ago. Voss won't get too creative now, there's far too much pressure on him.
Might be interesting if the management suggest playing some younger players and tell Voss to coach for development.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Thryleon on June 22, 2025, 07:03:38 pm
Yeah let's make him coach for his career. That'll work out well
We have a coach not using excuses, with players that have broken down all season, he's blooded a fair whack of players and our best players are having off years. We have players dropping off with mental health issues, and the criticism seems disconnected from what's going on this season, and seems to centre around people's expectations being a bit off.
When we lost in round 1, that was the signal to stick fat, but lower your expectations. When we started seeing other players get ruled out over and over again with cotters and Kemp joining newman and jagga on the sidelines, its started becoming a bit of a mess.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Lods on June 22, 2025, 07:04:23 pm
Might be interesting if the management suggest playing some younger players and tell Voss to coach for development.
Ah...The Bolton option ;) :D
Had it happened a bit earlier, it could've been the Malthouse mixup - Call rebuild way too early in a year.
If it was last year, you could've called it the Ratten repetition - sack the coach after an injury hit year.
If you don't laugh, you'll cry.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 22, 2025, 09:12:38 pm
I heard a news report suggesting the senior players are leading the review of the NM disaster this week. That's farken laughable if true given the senior players are the problem. How do you reckon that review will go?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: kruddler on June 22, 2025, 09:33:14 pm
I heard a news report suggesting the senior players are leading the review of the NM disaster this week. That's farken laughable if true given the senior players are the problem. How do you reckon that review will go?
Everytime this happened under Pagan, we won.
In a way it's a backhander to the coach saying we don't need you.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 22, 2025, 09:47:00 pm
I heard a news report suggesting the senior players are leading the review of the NM disaster this week. That's farken laughable if true given the senior players are the problem. How do you reckon that review will go?
Well if on field behaviour is any indication, it will be a pretty casual review especially if Charlie is leading it. Lots of smiles, a few beers, nothing to see here...
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 22, 2025, 11:16:20 pm
I heard a news report suggesting the senior players are leading the review of the NM disaster this week. That's farken laughable if true given the senior players are the problem. How do you reckon that review will go?
Well if on field behaviour is any indication, it will be a pretty casual review especially if Charlie is leading it. Lots of smiles, a few beers, nothing to see here...
Maybe Charlie can tell the playing group how a spud like Toby Pink kept him goalless.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 22, 2025, 11:37:00 pm
Well if on field behaviour is any indication, it will be a pretty casual review especially if Charlie is leading it. Lots of smiles, a few beers, nothing to see here...
Maybe Charlie can tell the playing group how a spud like Toby Pink kept him goalless.
Charlie would be the last person to articulate anything. And if you think he's bad, have a listen to Brad Lloyd on 3AW, how the hell the club thought it was a good idea to post that hot, bumbling mess of an interview from Lloyd on the website is embarrassing.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Professer E on June 23, 2025, 07:49:13 am
Is that plonker still onboard?
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: LP on June 23, 2025, 07:49:35 am
I've noticed his brother has upped the pressure on our coach.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: blueray on June 23, 2025, 09:10:17 am
Although not on this thread, I have been very negative about our list with my blues group for the last 3 years. This included our great run. The decider for me was being 30 points in front at the quarter break against Brisbane in the prelim only to taper out so easily. I was glad we didn't make the GF that year as we would have been embarrassed and would have taken us at least a decade to recover from it. I have said for many years that our midfield is slow and one paced and we have never addressed it. I've mentioned this on this site that we need to get rid of two of our top 5 players that can garner really good picks but as usual this is met with trepidation. We have no currency as it stands in trading mid tier players so we have to give away players with actual currency and yes this is either Curnow, Walsh or McKay. I am resigned to TDK leaving so there's no point mentioning him. That leaves us with one of the mentioned three to leave and get picks back and use them for quality speedy players that can have an instant impact. We need to remove the forward coach and any that are not performing. Keep Voss if he is accepting that his gameplan doesn't work and hold up in modern day footy, and he immediately starts working on a more aesthetic brand of football because currently we are the most boring team to watch in the AFL. If he thinks he is not up to reinventing himself, then we would need to find a replacement. If we happen to keep Walsh, let's hope his body is right and has a great uninterrupted pre season. Possibly make him captain as Cripps is on borrowed time. He has been enormous for the club but relieving him of the the pressure will be good for him and Walsh can step up and lead the club as we all think is capable of. Keep playing kids and decide who stays. In terms of our forward line, it is not working and need to find an established player outside of the club who may not have the absolute talent, but one that is willing to give his all for the jumper. I know I'll get roasted for this but has anyone enquired about Naughton from the dogs? He wouldn't cost us much too I reckon. Or I may be completely off there but I hope the club is looking at things like this as this is just not sustainable the way we are operating at the moment. I pay a lot of money for my family's membership and this is the first year I have contemplated in downgrading it to cheaper seats as I feel I am wasting my hard earned. After all I am the consumer and if I don't like the product, then it's on me to do something about. No point wondering if the club is actually doing what's right by our members because i feel they are taking the piss. Rant over, sorry.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Professer E on June 23, 2025, 09:15:15 am
Naughton is on huge money and is under pressure for not delivering, kicks a lot of points.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: shawny on June 23, 2025, 09:50:09 am
So Voss could coach up until 12 months ago and then he suddenly lost the ability to?
I never rated him. Failed at Brisbane was 2nd in charge at Port for a long period while they did very little and then had one decent year with us where we won both our finals by the skin of our teeth. I'm not looking at this year only i'm looking at his time with us as a block of work.
Apart from the second half of 23 we have been underwhelming to say the least all with a list that is supposed to be in their prime and most say should be pushing for top 4 at a min.
We have beaten one good side in over 12 months ! Over the excuses time to make changes.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: shawny on June 23, 2025, 10:04:12 am
Not sure if this was mentioned in this thread as i haven't read it all but did anyone else think McGovern 'come on' with only 2 mins on the clock and being 4 goals down after he goaled as a tell of how dumb he is or more worrying how poorly we are coached that a senior player has no clue the game was already shot when he tried to fire the boys up?
What a stark difference to a team like the Pies who have different gears that are used at precisely the right time to get them a chance to win - while we appear to have NFI of what to do except the same bang and crash style regardless what stage the game is at. Yeah we may play a little more through the middle but hardly rocket science - You just knew GWS in the last quarter where going to change style to get the suns and they did it and got the win.
We are either the dumbest collection of footballers ever assembled or very poorly coached by a man that just does'nt have the tactics to employ when things are not going our way.
And when does Charlie cop it? Our prima donna who is in the leader shop group (still cant understand who selected him in that group) - the guy needs an allmightly kick up the a5se for no defensive pressure or real want to attack the ball when he doesnt mark it. Bloke is a big part of our issue as his lack of effort runs thru the whole list.
Watch McStay's tackle late in St Kilda's game on Saturday on W-Millara where he had no right to lock on to such a fast nimble player yet he had the grit and want to give everything. I would show Mr Curnow that clip and say mate when was the last time you showed that effort.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: blueray on June 23, 2025, 10:10:26 am
Naughton is on huge money and is under pressure for not delivering, kicks a lot of points.
So we can get him for nothing as long as we fit the bill? How big is that bill, has it been made public? Not disagreeing but this is the sort of stuff we don't do well as a club.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Blue Moon on June 23, 2025, 10:51:15 am
Finally David King says something sensible. We are too passive. Back in the 80's not only did we have lots of leaders who would take responsibility to change the game, we also had followers who would join in the rampage. Nowadays, we have few leaders and have fewer followers as everyone just plays for themselves. This is the cultural problem at Carlton and it is embedded in everything we do at the Club. We are comfortable in mediocrity. You can change the Coach, change the President, change the CEO, you can change the players, you can change the football department, you can change the committee and you can change the facilities, but until we change the culture of the Club the problems will never change.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Professer E on June 23, 2025, 10:55:30 am
Try McNaughton is on one of biggest, longest term contracts on the league.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: blueray on June 23, 2025, 11:16:52 am
Try McNaughton is on one of biggest, longest term contracts on the league.
Cheers, am wondering if dogs would pay some of his contract to move him on. JUH is likely to leave and they'll need to pay Darcy what he's worth so Naughton may be surplus to needs. His salary may be just too much and thanks to those who brought this up but this is an example of how clubs with current good culture leverage to get players in. We need to get creative before Tassie comes in otherwise a premiership tilt could be 2 decades away
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 23, 2025, 11:55:37 am
Naughton as Prof said is on big bucks and is unreliable kicking for goal. With Jamara probably on the way out I'd expect Naughton to be a required player to pair with Darcy. We need to get a Mihocek, cheap, reliable, and effective. If you want to have good smalls then you need good bigs who can work with them and be unselfish and that's why Elliott, Hill etc at Collingwood prosper with a FF who is prepared to support his teammates.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Professer E on June 23, 2025, 02:16:58 pm
I reckon a forward line of Chuck-Harry with one of Kemp and McF can work provided (1) we start delivering the ball properly and (2) we get some blokes at their feet that can clean up the scraps and (3) all forwards fight to keep the ball in - here's looking at you Chuck. The reasoning being that that is a big forward line and would seriously extended most defences - but they must be on the same page effort wise and we have to deliver the pill efficiently.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: blueray on June 23, 2025, 03:01:14 pm
Naughton as Prof said is on big bucks and is unreliable kicking for goal. With Jamara probably on the way out I'd expect Naughton to be a required player to pair with Darcy. We need to get a Mihocek, cheap, reliable, and effective. If you want to have good smalls then you need good bigs who can work with them and be unselfish and that's why Elliott, Hill etc at Collingwood prosper with a FF who is prepared to support his teammates.
Fair enough about Aaron. Who are the names that could be those types of players? Oscar Allen maybe? With Morris doing so well at Brissie, could Allen be worth a shot. Scored 53 goal just two years ago. I'm not so sure about him but just throwing names out there.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Bluesers on June 23, 2025, 03:34:26 pm
Quite a good analysis in this article imo. GW has a lot of work in front of him, whether that plan will include MV or not, we have to wait and see but I'm sure we will see big changes in the next few months. I think the next 6 weeks will mostly determine whether he stays or goes.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 23, 2025, 03:35:34 pm
Naughton as Prof said is on big bucks and is unreliable kicking for goal. With Jamara probably on the way out I'd expect Naughton to be a required player to pair with Darcy. We need to get a Mihocek, cheap, reliable, and effective. If you want to have good smalls then you need good bigs who can work with them and be unselfish and that's why Elliott, Hill etc at Collingwood prosper with a FF who is prepared to support his teammates.
Fair enough about Aaron. Who are the names that could be those types of players? Oscar Allen maybe? With Morris doing so well at Brissie, could Allen be worth a shot. Scored 53 goal just two years ago. I'm not so sure about him but just throwing names out there.
BR, Allen has been offered six years at Brisbane on decent money and lacks a bit of intensity imo for the contest. Brisbane can have him for that type of contract, as I said Id be looking at cheaper options who can provide a bit more teamwork down forward and be creative as well as kick a few goals themselves.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: blueray on June 23, 2025, 03:43:53 pm
Fair enough about Aaron. Who are the names that could be those types of players? Oscar Allen maybe? With Morris doing so well at Brissie, could Allen be worth a shot. Scored 53 goal just two years ago. I'm not so sure about him but just throwing names out there.
BR, Allen has been offered six years at Brisbane on decent money and lacks a bit of intensity imo for the contest. Brisbane can have him for that type of contract, as I said Id be looking at cheaper options who can provide a bit more teamwork down forward and be creative as well as kick a few goals themselves.
Most players would lack appetite with that mob. Just hoping we're seriously speaking to other players. They haven't addressed the midfield issues which would likely mean they were happy with the list. Jagga wasn't the instant remedy and now we're paying for it. Seems obvious from the outside and maybe they have tried without luck but it certainly doesn't look like it which infuriates me.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on June 23, 2025, 04:07:30 pm
BR, Allen has been offered six years at Brisbane on decent money and lacks a bit of intensity imo for the contest. Brisbane can have him for that type of contract, as I said Id be looking at cheaper options who can provide a bit more teamwork down forward and be creative as well as kick a few goals themselves.
Most players would lack appetite with that mob. Just hoping we're seriously speaking to other players. They haven't addressed the midfield issues which would likely mean they were happy with the list. Jagga wasn't the instant remedy and now we're paying for it. Seems obvious from the outside and maybe they have tried without luck but it certainly doesn't look like it which infuriates me.
If our List Management thought a thin first year kid was the solution to all their problems then they need to be shown the door. We sold the farm to get him and maybe getting injured saved the poor kid from having to shoulder a lot of responsibility and expectation. Hopefully he has used his time to build the body up and when he gets back can ease himself in quietly and not be phased by having to be another Navy Blue messiah that has to be the next Nick Daicos which is what some will be expecting. I wouldnt be pinning too much hope on our List management group addressing our problems, the club seem to be in denial about our poor season ...
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: madbluboy on June 23, 2025, 08:11:30 pm
King is spot on, bullied by Nth and zero response, the look on the coaches face at the end of that spray he gave was enough for me. Just sheer frustration at the lack of effort and care, as King suggested when talking about our history we had some pride in pulling on the jumper and backing your mates was a non negotiable expectation, now its a lottery what your going to get from week to week. The supporters are backing this club with record memberships and good attendance but its the leaders and players who need to be walking away and thinking what they can do for the long suffering supporters and the poor coach who looks defeated.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: pinot on June 23, 2025, 08:56:17 pm
Add Miles Bergman and do a number on SOS for Wanganeen Milera.
Add Newy back into the team ASAP.
Title: Re: AFL Rd 15 2025 Post-Game Prognostications Carlton vs North Melbourne
Post by: Gointocarlton on June 23, 2025, 09:33:03 pm
King is spot on, bullied by Nth and zero response, the look on the coaches face at the end of that spray he gave was enough for me. Just sheer frustration at the lack of effort and care, as King suggested when talking about our history we had some pride in pulling on the jumper and backing your mates was a non negotiable expectation, now its a lottery what your going to get from week to week. The supporters are backing this club with record memberships and good attendance but its the leaders and players who need to be walking away and thinking what they can do for the long suffering supporters and the poor coach who looks defeated.
Financially thriving, spiritually bankrupt. The marketing team should make that the slogan for 2026. Disgusting vision from the leaders, good on Vossy for tearing them a new one. Pretty sure a few started crying when he walked away and dobbed him in for yelling at them.