Ready for tomorrow.
Another loss; 37 points. Just not good enough.
There's a short clip on YT, from a few months ago, of Jack Riewoldt talking about the 2017 GF. He talks about how the Crows kicked 2 goals in the first 10 minutes, and then a little voice (he calls it a thing) jumps on your shoulder and says, "you're Richmond, you're not supposed to win."
That voice has IMO, not only taken up permanent residence on the CFC shoulders, it's playing on a loop. I just don't think the boys believe anymore. They surely try, but at least for now, that winning habit has deserted them.
Think Charlie is on a double figure streak now of point kicking.
What's the record? He's getting plenty of cracks at goal but.......
Agree ^ but there is spirit and some camaraderie.
The drop of form of Durds and Fogs is striking.
Charlie has the yips but was taking good marks and kicking well around the ground otherwise.
Crippa is just a beast - love him. Wish he had more trust in his teammates, he and Hewitt definitely try to do too much.
Jesse confuses me - he is good in the midfield but isn’t an effective defender. Forward isn’t working for him.
Cowan has something - Altho not playing great and a bit rusty he still seems to exude confidence.
Think the time has come to finish up some of our always injured players. It must sap the group. No continuity:
Feel that wasn’t a display of hating rhe coach either… I think we need some more skills
Coaches or better ones!
Terrible game to watch, errors ,clumsy umps. They had a lot of ball but didn't do much with it and we just manage to do the dumb thing at the right time for the opposition often enough so they never really have to exert themselves.
Hate these games when you trail all match but are never really in the game.
Just awful.
Fogarty had two kicks for the whole game, his first was that set shot at goal where he hit the post.
I keep saying on here that for a small forward, he doesn't kick enough goals, low & behold, Montagna said the same thing tonite in the commentary box.
Is it any wonder that we are so crape when we keep putting our faith in players who give us that sort of rubbish return.
Keep playing O'Farrell, he will get better as he gets stronger and more experienced.
Good to see Cowan playing his attacking style again, he still has some improvement in him but he plays like it is his last ever game and that is the trait we need to see more of from his team-mates.
Curnow went goal-less again, that's over a month now.
Pittonet played his heart out despite his limitations whilst De Koning just ran around and did the mimimum required.
Thank god for George Hewett, he was massive tonite.
And don't start me on that umpire's positioning when Cowan ran into him trying to mark, FMD, that incident directly lead to a Lions goal.
Sam Docherty, please retire at the end of the season, you have nothing more to prove to anyone in the football world, your reputation is intact.
Flynn, Motlop, Fogarty, Durdin, Williams & Fantasia (6 small forwards) all have to go either this year or next, they are not the future and never will be.
Its embarrassing watching De Koning and Curnow turn up and collect a pay cheque at the minute, both shouldn't be playing.
Our skills are just deplorable.
TDK absolutely - Cornes has the audacity to bag the Carlton supporters that Bronx cheered him when he finally did something - in the 3rd mind you! Took him long enough!
Curnow disagree - felt he tried hard initially and gee he has some skills. He gets absolutely battered every marking contest and I noticed his free kicks have completely dried up.
Interesting to see how the rest of the season and seasons end unfolds now:
Whatever we are doing at the 1/2 time break is not working.
We fought hard, but lack the skills, composure and toughness to match these top teams.
Note the link up chains of clean handballs and possessions at pace the Lions produce compared to our often bumbling efforts, they were playing a different game.
And they stick their tackles.
Apart from williams and maybe hewitt i trust no other player to hit a target. The average skills of this list are dead set horrible.
Apart from cripps i trust no other player to stick a tackle and lock up a player running hard into them. not one. For a so called gameplan based on inside contested play we are like school kids when it comes to stopping an opposition player with the ball. missed tackles and player just breaking them is hard to watch.
and as far as goal kicking from 30 dead in front, i trust no one.
We are crape folks and need a full back to basics reset rebuild whatever you want to all
it as this list is filled with players never going to reach the levels needed
Voss and the full coaching panel must go. if in doubt please tell me what structured systems we have at a kick in other the a long bomb out and kicking into the 50 hasnt changed in 10 years. Cripps trying to take on Neale in the 3rd confirms it as any well coached team would not see their captain attempt that play especially when he is turtle paced. Cripps did what he did as we have nothing structured nothing planned out and the bloke is trying to invent something to catch the opposition out. While im so disheartened by Charlie and think he is severely over rated i must say the way we deliver the ball to him is deplorable. No excuses for kicking 0/9 in the last month but there is nothing to try and isolate him or try and block for him. we have a asset there and cant build one strategy to exploit it.
We are a shambles and Weiters lack of interest is the biggest tell of all that we are broken from top to bottom.
We had 1 person in the top 6 possessions getters: George Hewett, who put a few very quiet weeks behind him to get 9 clearances and 3 tackles.
7th in possessions was Cripps, who had 26; 6 tackles and 9 clearances.
Those sort of numbers are elite!
On the other hand, Charlie Curnow had 14 possessions and 6 marks, but couldn't kick a goal.
Ashton Moir had 3 points from 9 possessions. Cameron for them had 9 possessions but he got 3 goals!
Hopeless - bunch of heeadless chooks that have nfi what they are doing.
There's a theory that the strength of the 'bottom 6' of a team is the differentiator of teams. Another post somewhere had about 8 of our best 23 out. A real test of our depth. Given that many on the forum bemoan player development in the VFL, the current results aren't a surprise. The bottom 6 are better when playing alongside the genuinely best 17 as they contubute at their level. When the 6 becomes 12 is where the struggle is.
While the game wasn't great tonight, thought they fought ok - some basic skill errors lead to easy goals to Brisbane. We get ready shots and lack composure, or mental strength to make sure that we kick the goal. That hurts.
When Williams had the shot for goal in the last, I said to my son that he'll do a hammy. 2 minutes later he was on his own and looked as if he had - might have been cramp.
In terms of effort, energy, appetite for the contest etc, the boys looked better than they have for the last few weeks.
This is true, lets not forgot who we played, we are not in their "league".
Yes, I agree. The Lions started their rebuild pretty much the same time as us, and they stuck at it : one coach, good list development, good recruiting, good environment. Sigh………..
I'm finding it a bit hard to get a read on that performance.
Clearly we were outclassed by a much superior 'team'
In fact those few goals we kicked early in the last probably flattered our scoreline.
I thought our effort was better.
Not great, but better.
Our intensity, effort and pressure was up a level on recent weeks....but nowhere near what we're capable of applying.
Cripps seemed to be more influential than he has been in recent weeks.
Charlie, once again without a goal, but played OK around the ground and missed a couple he should have kicked.
Problem was it was left to too few and some of the errors, especially getting caught with the ball, were diabolical and costly.
The lions seemed to have a bit of a mission when it came to tackles and pressure.
Many of our players could have phoned in their efforts.
We have a bit of a problem with Tom.
If he's made a decision he needs to let the club know.
And with the way he's playing, it may be that he finishes his time at Carlton, either playing VFL or not at all.
We're getting very little from him, compared to what he's capable of, and that's disappointing because even though many of us can understand the decision to take the money, the way he finishes will mean we won't remember him with fondness.
The response from Carlton folk when he touches the ball with his new side will be similar to the response he got when he touched it playing for us last night.
There was some silly commentary around that last night (Cornes I think) when fans were criticised for the booing and bronx cheers of TDK.
What does he expect given the effort and the situation.
No doubt it's been a decision that has weighed on DeKoning, and that is probably a factor in the drop off in performance...but fans can only judge on performance.
There was also some silly commentary around Durdin flying for marks.
"That's not his go!" was the comment.
In fact it's very much his go, and he's taken a couple of the better marks by a Carlton player this year.
He may not have a lot of weapons, and his high marking isn't seen often, but it's not something that's "not his go".
You look at the scoreboard (even though it flattered us a bit) and then you look in the stands and see Newman, McKay Walsh and Silvagni sitting together,
There's probably a couple of goals more in attack for us, and probably a couple of goals less for them in our defence.
It looks like we've lost Fantasia (who was actually one of our better players when he went off.) A couple of folks have mentioned both Williams and McGovern pulling up a bit sore (cramp or injury). We'll have to wait and see. But we should probably expect some major changes next week.
TDK is playing 80% forward, what do you expect?
I think the De Koning situation has gone on too long. The club should have managed it better, by at least imposing a kind of decision deadline. It has created IMO too much distraction, for a club that can ill afford any more of that.
I think fans like to blame outsiders.
Fantasia had a great game yesterday and still got blamed.
TDK is in that outsider camp now.
They had a decent go but our deplorable skill level and inability to stick or break a tackle really hurt us. And there was a real discrepancy in system and football IQ - but they are a good side and should have won by 100 points.
Our defensive "system" has completely broken down and the Lion's professional system manipulated match ups and isolated our defenders. They slaughtered us on turnovers - a reflection of our inexperienced defence, woeful disposal and their focus on pressure and tackling, and we wilted under the pressure. Some poor umpiring didn't help. Weeters isn't lynch pining the defence and the system has broken...he looks fatigued. Carroll had a mare, got isolated and exploited and McG coughed up early goals with his typical rank kicks and errors - he simply can't play in defence. O'Farrell showed that he could be a real player and Moo kept trying to run but we have no rebound from half back and there is zero system to do so - and our disposal is so bad we can't string disposal chains together to bring the ball forward in a "safe" manner. Doc looks cooked, the game has gone past him. Try Lucas C. as a small running defender instead ?
Our midfield got smashed, although Cripps tried and George boxed on, but this is a modern pacy midfield built for today's game and they smashed on on spread and transition. Cerra ran around and contributed very little (looks very slow ATM) and could be replaced by Ben C. sooner rather than later. Cinch had patches of control on McCluggage but the silk factor got him in the end. Pitt tried very hard and flew the flag but TdK was largely invisible until the last, where he clearly responded to a jag - he has checked out and I'd consider playing Skull in front of a bloke only going at half rat power. Motlop had his moments in the midfield but his footy IQ when in F50 seems to completely desert him - I don't know what to make of him.
Forwards were woeful, but there is no process to deliver the ball to them. Charlie marked well but his continued misses are sapping for himself and the team. Looked really on early but just got swamped - we really need a second marking option to take some heat from him and maybe play him higher? McG gave nothing up forward and that's the issue with him - not a defender, inconsistent as a forward. Time to move him on I reckon.
The ground level forwards as a collective stank. They are not kicking goals and they are not putting any pressure on the defenders exiting - Zorko killed us and put immense pressure on our defense as a result.
Fog was awful again with zero impact and blew a soda at a critical time - delist material. Williams invisible and worried about some niggle, Fantasia injured after a neat moments (high IQ player), Young (hurt?), Durdin invisible and too slow... and Moir his forward craft stands out relative to the other gumbys. He was given a lot of ground time but for all his vaunted skill plays like a millionaire. They work so hard to get the ball to him and he plays in a profligate manner. I ask myself if he wants it badly enough or is he just another flaky flanker? We badly need him to convert all the shots he gets instead of blowing them.
They tried for Voss but their isn't much left and get prepared some awful floggings in the next six weeks.
I think the club has tried to be professional about Tom but I don’t think he’s responded, if skull goes ok in the VFL I’d swap them
Considering we played with four less players than Brisvegas -- TDK, Fogarty, Durdin & McGovern -- it was a pretty brave effort.
Reality is the scoreboard flattered us due to Brisvegas going into 'containment mode' in the last qtr. It was a ten goal defeat.
Our leaders did step up and gave their all.
The TDK situation must be dealt with immediately, it's negatively impacting him, the club and his team mates.
So glad Cowan has signed on for more years with us. He's a ripper.
Loved Pitto's game. We know he has his shortcomings, but there aren't too many ruckmen about who are the complete package.
We may have the slowest midfield in the known cosmos.
The umpire’s block on Cowan needs to be looked at. It’s ridiculous that one team gets an advantage from an umpire’s poor positioning.
If anyone deserves to fined for that fiasco it’s the umpy.
I was thinking that all field umpires could be placed inside Zorb balls but ball ups would be a problem 🤔
We could have had a 3 goal turn around via Motlop finishing the work properly. That set shot showed a player lacking confidence. He missed. The end to end play resulted in Matt Carroll getting pinged. He repeated that same mistake a minute later.
Im not a matt carroll fan, and im not signing him up was the right reign to pull. He doesnt defend well, and whilst he uses it well, I fail to see what he offers us that Jordan Boyd doesnt.
I can’t really tell where Tom’s mind is at. Apart from blokes like Haynes, Hewett and a small number of others, De Koning seems caught in the mire along with most of his buddies. I didn’t think he was too bad last night. Seems to have lifted from the last few weeks, along with the rest of the team.
Brisbane just did what they needed to get the win. Like Collingwood they didn't get out of second gear and just fed off our many mistakes rather than being over creative themselves.
We were devoid of skills and comical at times, and lack of leadership stands out.
There were a few that tried but not enough
to call it a team effort and it's going to be a slow grind till seasons end.
Maybe the club will drag themselves out of denial and admit we are no finals chance and play more kids and have a youth emphasis to give the supporters something to look forward to if we could find some players for next season.
Disagree Elwood, Brisbane were ferocious.
I think we put in more effort last night but we were way behind in skills execution and in taking our chances. We will never get any better until these basic areas are fixed. We just lack any kind of composure and always look rushed and nervous.
Hopefully TDK can pull his finger out and help the backline and midfield while in the forward line.
Yea, Rayner and Fort and Charlie were on a mission to hunt and destroy us and we wilted badly. They saw the light bodies and went after them like crocodiles after a baby goat.
Strength and power conditioning over the summer was a sham.
Why was Lord the sub?
Completely disagree about Tom. He is nowhere near the player he has shown he can be and every single person knows he has checked out. It’s become a bloody farce and the Collingwood cheersquad singing the Saints song was embarrassing imo.
He needs to be dropped immediately. He provided nothing last night and you can feel it sapping the energy out of the games - the constant speculation.
I am No Bronx cheerer but enough is enough -
Let’s go with youth.
On that everyone is saying so and so is crap bring in youth then you get these young guys with stuff all senior exposure making mistakes and people
Are now saying they’re not good enough, delist them! Give it a break - they’re kids and working their arses off coming into a team
Down on form and a dozen injuries! Being asked to do what our senior players haven’t done! Give them a chance and give them support - there is some talent there that needs to be backed in.
Agree, if rather a kid like OFarrell who is only going to get better than a mistake prone hack like McG. Senior players who cause more issues with bad play than good have killed us this year.
McGovern is good in a good team.
Good at the Crows, crap when he first came to us, good then crap again.
The people who Bronx cheered Tom are a special kind of stupid.
Because Durdin wasn't, yet should have been.
I'll agree when they had to be MBB, but i thought they fiddled and over used the ball a lot.
Did you see how poor TDKs defensive game was? Just coasting.
Lazy kick out early in the first quarter from McGovern resulting in a goal sums up his career.
Our team last night consisted of a few out of form A graders and a bunch of C graders masquerading as B graders.
If this is the best that our recruiters can deliver then we are going to be cellar dwellers for the foreseeable future.
A couple of points :
I can't peek into Tom's head, so I don't know his thoughts. If the team was flying and he was going half ar$ed, then sure. But given most of the team is in poor form, he may simply be a part of that. I would prefer to reserve judgement and give him the BOD, and trust the football department to be able to measure his output better than us.
I agree with your concerns on the second point. Leaving aside the obvious frustration and impatience (which rarely leads to good decision making), the business of dropping player x to promote a young fellow, must by its very nature, exist in a kind of liminal space. If the player is being dropped because of poor form, and the younger fellow is being promoted without merit, then one cannot be deserving of their position in the 1sts any more than the other. Leaving that aside, it also puts extra pressure on our senior players (already stretched as it is). Blooding youngsters works best in teams that are performing well IMO. They have a stable, supportive environment that reinforces good habits. Unfortunately, we are not that at the moment, and for a few reasons, I would suggest proceeding with caution on the "all youth" path.
I think TDK has to ruck most of the game, that's where he plays his best footy and it also forces him to be involved.
Playing him forward reminds me of Hampson and Kruezer...never worked.
Think we need him vs Gawn next week, so I'd be keeping him in the team.
If he is picked to play forward only then I'd drop him and play HOK.
Every team has tried playing the star ruck forward, it usually doesn't work.
Even Gawn didn't work.
Carroll made a few terrible errors but didn’t he replace mcg on Cameron? Because McG was stuffing up so badly?
Carroll gets around the ground a
Lot I just watched the first half replay - sure his decision making needs to speed up but that’s on other players too, too often I don’t see anyone presenting!
We are the new St Kilda. Happy with effort
The problem with the TDK situation is that emotion seems to be the overriding factor in assessing where he is at and what to do about it..
Take the emotion out of it and look at the options.
Tom is either going or staying.
We don't know.
If he stays, all good..but let the club know.
He's either told the club and teammates or he hasn't.
You would think he's made a decision by now.
It is important that decision is conveyed to the club as they need to plan for 2026.
Tom is essentially a ruckman, he doesn't have the same impact as a forward.
He wouldn't be playing forward if McKay was available.
If we were certain he was staying it may be Pittonet making way.
If Tom is leaving then priority needs to be given to a Pittonet/O'Keefe ruck set up, either as a duo or single ruck as that is likely to be our combination next year.
Even if we do decide to pursue another ruckman that's still the fallback position.
If DeKoning is leaving it serves no purpose for us to have him playing at a senior level.
Wins are no longer important and playing the way he is, even if he's contributing, it is not match winning and it is possibly keeping another 2026 player out of the side.
The club needs to know what DeKoning's intentions are now.
There is no longer any reason for him to wait until the season ends.
Can anyone think of one?
The St Kilda offer is on the table.
He can take that, or he can explore options with other clubs.
Either way the club needs to be looking ahead and planning and preparing for life with or without DeKoning.
But they need a decision.
100%. Sure he made errors but maybe he should be learning in the twos not having to mind an elite forward one out with no support because a so-called senior player can't do his job and we have to hide him at Half forward. If Carroll is any good he'll learn and improve, but McG.... Same old crap.
Agree totally. Pit is not half the player TDK is yet he is performing better. TDKs best is top shelf but enough is enough. The guy has clearly checked out.
I would drop him next week if Jack is back and let Pit ruck with Jack as back up.
If the club knows he is going i dont understand why we are persisting with him as he not interested ATM.
Plus imagine being a Saints fan thinking our club is going to pay 1.7M for a player who cant get a game!
The fans sitting around me started bagging the team 10 mins into the first quarter.
We have terrible supporters in amongst the good ones. You hear the same old crap from the stands. "man up, go faster, go harder", too much handball, kick it, we need more run with forward handball.
Its easy to see all the options from 150 metres away, but on deck when they look up the ground, they cant see everything in 2 seconds, and are not looking downfield when concentrating on getting the ball out.
Also, its easy to be critical from the stands, most of the people around me look like theyve never played the game. I havent so I say not much, I usually just boo, and cheer, but yesterday I was feeling like entertaining myself so when Hipwood got the yips early went with, you've only kicked one, you've only kicked one! we are rubbish, and you have only kicked one. Got a few chuckles.
Put Pitt forward and TDK ruck then.
I agree. I can only judge fans from social and mainstream media, but too many of them leave a lot to be desired, and probably have no idea of the damage they cause, and probably wouldn't care either.
Happy in the sense that it was a positive compared to recent weeks. Not happy in the sense that we believe it's all about effort and nothing more.
Agree the effort was up compared to the previous weeks, skills/execution have been substandard for weeks.
Yes no doubt. I'm presently very much of the opinion that this is a head space issue.
My eldest son was a fairly handy tennis player in his teens but rarely put in any effort which use to frustrate me no end. In the end he agreed to pretend to try. I am not sure Carlton actually tried last night or were just pretending to try. In the end I thought there effort was a genuine E.
No one wants to kick a goal. No one wants to take responsibility. If we kicked the goals we miss then we would be closer and therefore we would have to take responsibility for the game. As it is, we miss straight forward shots on goal, the opposition goes down and kick a goal and the game is taken away from us and our players just acquiesce to the situation.
The Pittonett goal should have been something to inspire the team but it didn't. It seems to be something they can laugh about at training next week. It also demonstrated that our leaders are really just people who front the band as no one wants to follow. The problem for Pittonett is that we now know he can do it and so he now needs to do it regularly and then he needs to be able to do it all the time.
As for the Cowan incident, this demonstrates what a rubbish Club we have become because these sorts of things happen to rubbish Clubs.
Pretending to try may be enough to fool spectators, but if they can fool the coaches and other football staff, then I'd be both shocked and incredibly disappointed.
And incredibly worried.
Gee that sounds like victim blaming!
Stupid umpire right in the passage of play! Should’ve been a whistle and a ball up!
We are not a rubbish club - we are going thru a tough period. But ask yourself - if a fit Newman Walsh, JSOS, H, Elijah were playing, would it have been a different result? Maybe.
So let’s ease up on this yeah, we’re obvs not in a good space now but I have belief still,
Currently sitting at Ikon Park watching the VFL team, we are a proud club and this period (extended) does hurt but let’s back our boys and help get them out of this funk. And make TDK decide on this contract today! Enough Tom foolery!
ETA Forgot about Jagga - what would the season look like with him?
In term of effort, we won the contested ball and clearances. Two very good indicators of effort.
Our ball use and decision making are a different story.
They had a dip last night.
Yeah I don't get the questioning of our effort.
One of the biggest indictments on the coaching staff is the inept manner in which we frequently try to bring the ball into play after opponents score a behind. It seems that the inability of our players to kick the ball to advantage when under no pressure is very evident in this area and hoping for the best is clearly not an effective strategy (if it is a strategy at all).
McGovern and Docherty are a turnover merchants who run up the ground and either mis-kick the ball or kick it high to a contest (in the centre square) only to see it come back quicker than it went out.
The Saad option works sometimes but that option frequently results in him bouncing the ball after one or two steps then running into trouble before hand-passing to an under-pressure teammate and (possibly) getting the ball back under similar pressure.
Conversely, opponents consistently move the ball with relative ease through (what passes for) our defensive cluster(fc*k).
Its like a different player has been taking the kick ins for the last few years.
If Fantasia had a 'great' game, what type of game would you say Motlop had?
Fantasia vs Motlop - Stat
14 vs 17 - Disposals
1 vs 6 - Marks
1 vs 5 - Clearances
4 vs 3 - Inside 50's
1 vs 2 - Rebound 50's
13 vs 18 - Pressure acts
4 vs 4 - Tackles
4 vs 5 - Score involvements
1.0 vs 0.1 - Scoring (G.B)
29 vs 21 - Age
If you want to talk about TDK...
TDK vs Pittonet - Stat
14 vs 7 - Disposals
0 vs 2 - Intercept disposals
3 vs 1 - Marks
0 vs 1 - Contested Marks
2 vs 1 - Clearances
0 vs 1 - Inside 50's
0 vs 0 - Rebound 50's
5 vs 6 - Pressure acts
4 vs 2 - Tackles
4 vs 4 - Score involvements
1.0 vs 2.0 - Scoring (G.B)
33 vs 66 - Ruck contests
10 vs 34 - Hitouts
4 vs 14 - Hitouts to advantage
Compare the pair....
One is 'a hack' who needs to be replaced.
One is '1.7mil worthy' who is 'elite'.
So boo hoo about outsiders all you like. There are other 'hacks' that are outperforming them. So perhaps they are not outsiders at all, rather just underperforming.
^^
Dont forget to do metres gained.
Fantasia 304.
Motlop 189.
Oh and time on ground percetange 81% motlop, and Fantasia 51%.
Fantasia's issues are reliability.
Not capability. Reliability limits his capability.
Both of them are luxuries a side like ours cannot afford.
TDK played most of his game forward, and Pittonet mostly in the ruck. Thats another stinky comparison.
I was picking generic data. Not favouring one or the other.
I included complete ruck stats to show relative numbers there.
That is...
Pitto wins 1/2 the hitouts of contests he is in. TDK 1/3
Pitto gets 1/5 hitouts to advantage from ruck contests he attends. TDK is 1 in 7.
TDK played most of his game forward...cool....Pitto outscored him, took more contested marks, had as many score involvements.
But TDK looks pretty running around the ground and can jump higher. None of this translates to actual output on game day.
You didn't want to include TOG for those 2 though? Does it hurt your defence?
Pitto TOG - 74%
TDK TOG - 85%
As for Fantasia vs Motlop......i chose that comparison before even looking at the stats and was surprised how much better Motlop did.
Supercoach
Fantasia 83 (51% game time)
Motlop 59 (81% game time)
lol.....not surprised you are living in a 'fantasy' world.
Are you going LP on me. The stats only matter if you put them up.
Fantasia was very good for half a game....and then he got injured.
And thats the good and the bad.
I'm not questioning the effort even though i could name more then a few that appear to be going thru the motions.
In 2023 we were playing in a PF. 2024 we all bought the injury card as to why we failed again and now in 2025 our season was dead with still 9 rounds to go so yep this list is well passed being praised for 'effort' from me.
Im not the one making an argument here. TDK was playing as a forward (poorly at that) and my standout moment of the game for him, was us conceding whilst he was checking on a teamate that fell over, and the opposition waltzed away with the footy. Look after your mate later thanks.
I have no complaints with Pittonet, and have defended him from the time he signed a 4 year deal.
Re: Motlop, he gets a free pass because we are bereft of young talent, but he is not anywhere near elite for a small forward. I cant remember the last time he scored a goal and did well, and we are about to move him around the ground to try and find other ways to impact the game.
Agreed. They also missed quite a few goal scoring opportunities. Not as bad as us but nevertheless still significant.
I feel like we missed some absolute sitters where as they kicked those. Ours were particularly deflating, especially early.
Stats are stats.
Supercoach points can change based on free kicks given for / against.
You can have a free kick against you for a 'professional free' or from a poor umpiring decision.
A long kick to a 50-50 contest is an effective kick even if we lose it. If it goes 40m to a contest its ineffective.
Motlop kicked the ball through for an opposition behind. By those stats, its ineffective. By reality, he saved us a goal.
There is too much grey area on supercoach points.
My point was this.
TDK gets credit. Pittonet gets not much (this game being perhaps the only exception in recent time) but stats wise.....it does NOT give you any insight into what the market offers are. That is, based on output, both are worth the same.
Similarly Fantasia and Motlop. Both get chastised. Motlop has age on his side and is performing at least to the same level of the wiley old veteran we recruited for his experience. Who should be congratulated and who should be chastised for not giving enough.
If i put comparisons of player a vs player b....we have a different discussion than if i put the actual names there.....and that is the issue. Peoples perception change based on the names. Forget the names, look at whats being offered in terms of output.
I'm not selective.
Curnow, Weitering, TDK, Cripps.....they've all copped it from me lately.
The take home point is this....
Perform, or piss off and give a kid a go.
I must watch a different Motlop to most. Yeah, he needs to finish his work and makes some poor decisions, but he does a lot right. Adds a different dimension at stoppage. 5 clearances last night. Only behind Hewitt and Cripps. I can't see a world that you wouldn't play him or even trade him.
Maybe Motlop needs to start onball and play the majority of the game there rather than the other way around.
I'd be happy to try that for the remaining games and see if he has some Kossie Pickett traits to his game.
Motlop suffers from the fact that we move the football at glacier speed. Small forwards need the ball pinging in fast, as they operate on chaos.
While the majority of our F50 entries are basically dump kicks to Harry, Charlie or TDK, Motlop and his small forward compatriots have next to no chance, as they are up against 6 defenders and 3-4 midfielders in there.
Yep. In Motlop you see glimpses. You see talent. You see hope.
Yes, you see mistakes....but he isn't alone in that.
I see similar in Moir.
You see glimpses. You see talent. You see hope.
Yes, you see mistakes....but he isn't alone in that.
Not too many players you can say that about. Plenty of others
might turn out to be ok, but there is no out and out talent on display like the other 2.
Yes, his output must be seen in context of the team performance and his team mates. 17 disposals, 6 marks, 4 tackles, 5 clearances, 198 meters gained and 81% TOG. By the team standards, that's not a bad output.
There not good numbers for a midfielder which is where he mainy played last night.
In Silvagni McKay Newman Cottrell Kemp Walsh Saad E Hollands (🙏🤞) Smith
Out Young Durdin Pittonet/TDK Cerra McGovern Fogarty Carroll Fantasia Docherty
Just saying
The thing I've noticed about Motlop is, unlike a few of our others he gets to where the ball 'is'...and not where it "aint".
That doesn't mean he always takes possession.
He's not clean...yet.
But he's often at the contest.
Certainly our mainline mids had better numbers, but judged at his level (young man learning the caper who gets thrown around a bit), they're decent IMO.