Princes Park => Robert Heatley Stand => Topic started by: crashlander on July 09, 2025, 09:10:36 pm
Title: VFL 2025 Rd 16 Carlton vs Brisbane
Post by: crashlander on July 09, 2025, 09:10:36 pm
Not on TC this week; instead our game starts at 12:05 at Carlton on Friday. I read some time ago that the game was going to be around 16:00, but that appears no longer the case. To get Brissie back to Brissie sooner?
Very interested to see what our line-up is like:
Title: Re: VFL 2025 Rd 16 Carlton vs Brisbane
Post by: crashlander on July 10, 2025, 10:31:26 pm
Finally our line-up is available: CARLTON B: B. Wilson (35), E. Phillips (55), M. Duffy (41) HB: H. Charleson (28), J. Boyd (37), R. Monahan (34) C: B. Acres (13), J. Binns (25), L. Camporeale (21) HF: W. White (38), D. Hogg (70), L. Nelson (57) F: H. O'Keeffe (40), H. Lemmey (31), F. Evans (44) R: F. Riley (56), B. Camporeale (16), H. Ramshaw (51) Int: O. Warburton (78), C. Vickery (59), A. Stevens (77), P. Dozzi (53), D. Grainger-Barras (61) 23rd Player: O. Warburton (78) Em: K. Ferronato (50), O. Badr (62), S. Phipps-Parsons (69), N. King (63), J. Polkinghorne (76), T. Logan (68), Z. Harding (60)
IN: B. Acres, F. Evans, H. O'Keeffe, A. Stevens OUT: C. Durdin, F. Young (AFL), L. Young (ankle), W. Hayes (unavailable)
BRISBANE LIONS B: L. Lloyd (19), D. Joyce (41), Z. Zakostelsky (21) HB: T. Doedee (12), K. Coleman (18), L. Beecken (17) C: B. Reville (38), J. Tunstill (29), J. Creighton (57) HF: S. Marshall (20), W. McLachlan (28), D. Craven (45) F: C. McKenna (26), T. Gallop (22), B. Ryan (24) R: H. Smith (25), D. Robertson (2), R. Torrent (36) INT: S. Brain (34), M. Owen (47), T. Abberley (48), F. McFadyen (58), C. McCarthy (65) 23rd Player: M. Owen (47) EMG: T. Meekin (52), C. Offermans (56), W. Greenaway (59), R. Gilder (60), J. Fazldeen (65), D. Lloyd (67)
IN: S. Brain, K. Coleman, T. Doedee, T. Gallop, F. McFadyen, M. Owen, H. Smith OUT: J. Manly (personal), C. Murray (Allies), J. Fazldeen, R. Gilder, W. Greenaway, T. Meekin, B. Thomas (omitted) NEW: Matthew Owen, 17, 179cm, Brisbane Lions Academy/Redland-Victoria Point
My comments: [1] We're still a very short team, but having Skull back is a big improvement. [2] We'll miss Will Hayes again, but he probably has racing commitments. [3] Brisbane have a LOT of AFL listed players available. We haven't had that many for so long, although we did give it a sniff in the first couple of rounds. [4] If we win, it will be a huge win. Not like, though. They have so much talent available that we just don't. [5] Interesting to see how Grainer-Barras pulls up.
Title: Re: VFL 2025 Rd 16 Carlton vs Brisbane
Post by: crashlander on July 11, 2025, 12:38:26 pm
Quarter time and the Blues are a goal up! Carlton: 3 - 2 - 20 Brisbane: 2 - 2 - 14
Brisbane have 7 of the top 9 possession getters. Not a lot among our mids to this point.
The ball has been living in the Brisbane forward line, but we've had a lot more tackles.
Title: Re: VFL 2025 Rd 16 Carlton vs Brisbane
Post by: Thryleon on July 11, 2025, 12:50:04 pm
I tell you what, if we want to get a player that can help us on the cheap, Deven Robertson is the player.
Title: Re: VFL 2025 Rd 16 Carlton vs Brisbane
Post by: Thryleon on July 11, 2025, 12:59:55 pm
Harry Charleson can kick it very long.
Jordan Boyd happy to take the game on.
For a team that lacks run off half back, and is insistent on using Ollie Hollands in that role, Im not sure why we have so many half backs and then insist on using Hollands down there when we are cheating with mids on the wing.
Title: Re: VFL 2025 Rd 16 Carlton vs Brisbane
Post by: Thryleon on July 11, 2025, 01:01:50 pm
Lemmey moves like the titanic. Big turning circle, not much pace. Showed some endeavour to get back and attempt a tackle just then, but he is very one dimensional.
Title: Re: VFL 2025 Rd 16 Carlton vs Brisbane
Post by: RiverRat on July 11, 2025, 02:13:39 pm
Lemmey moves like the titanic. Big turning circle, not much pace. Showed some endeavour to get back and attempt a tackle just then, but he is very one dimensional.
He is certainly consistent in this (lack of) mobility.
Title: Re: VFL 2025 Rd 16 Carlton vs Brisbane
Post by: Thryleon on July 11, 2025, 02:32:43 pm
Whoever said about Evans getting a game, and spweing up, I would have my bucket ready for next week.
He is once again putting his hand up and making a stake for AFL footy. I dont like the guy, he isnt good enough, but you cannot accuse him of not trying.
Billy Wilson should also come in next week.
Dissapointed in Acres. He has been busy but hasnt looked a class above this level.
Lucas Campo may have done enough. Binns hasnt been terrible, and we will need wingers next week but we have a 9 day break to next saturday.
Id be moving Hollands back onto a wing, and bringing in Wilson and Charleson in based on what I have seen. We need to see what Charleson can do at AFL level, and Id like Carroll to be better defensively. Boyd is another one who could come in. Depends on the MC. Watch Acres come back in. Ed Langdon runs all day and will need someone like Hollands to go with him.
Title: Re: VFL 2025 Rd 16 Carlton vs Brisbane
Post by: kruddler on July 11, 2025, 02:38:15 pm
Whoever said about Evans getting a game, and spweing up, I would have my bucket ready for next week.
It wasn't me, but i share the sentiment.
Evans is not the future. Let him dominate at VFL level, but playing him at AFL shows gives us nothing both now and in the future. Play a kid in his place.
Title: Re: VFL 2025 Rd 16 Carlton vs Brisbane
Post by: Thryleon on July 11, 2025, 02:44:37 pm
Whoever said about Evans getting a game, and spweing up, I would have my bucket ready for next week.
It wasn't me, but i share the sentiment.
Evans is not the future. Let him dominate at VFL level, but playing him at AFL shows gives us nothing both now and in the future. Play a kid in his place.
For a side like ours, that is supposedly not trying, we cannot ignore the sort of game he played in the VFL.
You want to set standards at the club? Drop the talent, and reward the guys who are working.
Evans was second best of the blues on ground statistically (beaten by Ethan Phillips). 3 goals, 18 disposals, 8 marks, 8 tackles. Thats putting your hand up.
Billy Wilson was next. 1 goal. 23 disposals. 8 marks 3 tackles. Jordan Boyd not far behind Billy. Will white also had a dip.
We weren't very good.
I dont want to see Evans on our list next season, but if we are going to achieve anything for the rest of this year, you have to reward the solid VFL form when a player puts his hand up, particularly with the ones going as badly as they have been.
Title: Re: VFL 2025 Rd 16 Carlton vs Brisbane
Post by: Lods on July 11, 2025, 02:47:53 pm
I missed the last quarter and a bit. He wasn't really firing when I left, but 11 disposals at 54% doesn't really scream promotion for Ben C ???
(Unless he's been told he's been playing against Melbourne and just have a run around and take it easy. We don't have a TOG% on AFL.com. He may have been managed.)
Title: Re: VFL 2025 Rd 16 Carlton vs Brisbane
Post by: kruddler on July 11, 2025, 02:51:31 pm
Evans is not the future. Let him dominate at VFL level, but playing him at AFL shows gives us nothing both now and in the future. Play a kid in his place.
For a side like ours, that is supposedly not trying, we cannot ignore the sort of game he played in the VFL.
You want to set standards at the club? Drop the talent, and reward the guys who are working.
Evans was second best of the blues on ground statistically (beaten by Ethan Phillips). 3 goals, 18 disposals, 8 marks, 8 tackles. Thats putting your hand up.
Billy Wilson was next. 1 goal. 23 disposals. 8 marks 3 tackles. Jordan Boyd not far behind Billy. Will white also had a dip.
We weren't very good.
I dont want to see Evans on our list next season, but if we are going to achieve anything for the rest of this year, you have to reward the solid VFL form when a player puts his hand up, particularly with the ones going as badly as they have been.
I'm not sure what you think we can acheive this year, other than playing kids and giving them experience.
Title: Re: VFL 2025 Rd 16 Carlton vs Brisbane
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on July 11, 2025, 03:08:28 pm
Evans isnt a senior footballer and should never grace the senior team ever again, dont care if he kicked 50 goals in the VFL today, we need to be playing the kids who might amount to something not going back to the tried and failed. Charleson might be worth a go as long as we dont do something stupid like start him on Kossie Pickett or Melksham in the back pocket and Id like to see more of Wilson and one Campo at least.
Title: Re: VFL 2025 Rd 16 Carlton vs Brisbane
Post by: Thryleon on July 11, 2025, 03:14:24 pm
Now that the season is dead, you set standards. You a kid wanting to play AFL footy? You need to bang the door down like this VFL hack who isnt good enough. Why is he so much better at the level than you if he's rubbish?
AFL players? You want to play AFL footy or continue at the club? Dont go to the VFL and give us what Blake Acres did today. He should have been one of the best on. Instead he was just going. The workrate was there, the ability to hit targets not. Thats a negative for an important senior player.
Set the standards now. Playing the kids at AFL level before they have time, or gifting us games through a rebuild is precisely why we are rubbish. Brisbane's Deven Robertson has been squeezed out of their senior team. He has that many players ahead of him, you could forgive him for going at half rat power. They were 6 goals up with 10 minutes to play, and he ended up with a bloody nose because of his commitment to the contest, and statistically was 2nd best Lion on the day, out of 18 senior listed players. He isnt guaranteed a game next week, and it shows. Our boys by contrast, dont want it enough. Set THAT standard. Its way more important than gifting any young kid a game.
Title: Re: VFL 2025 Rd 16 Carlton vs Brisbane
Post by: kruddler on July 11, 2025, 04:57:54 pm
Now that the season is dead, you set standards. You a kid wanting to play AFL footy? You need to bang the door down like this VFL hack who isnt good enough. Why is he so much better at the level than you if he's rubbish?
AFL players? You want to play AFL footy or continue at the club? Dont go to the VFL and give us what Blake Acres did today. He should have been one of the best on. Instead he was just going. The workrate was there, the ability to hit targets not. Thats a negative for an important senior player.
Set the standards now. Playing the kids at AFL level before they have time, or gifting us games through a rebuild is precisely why we are rubbish. Brisbane's Deven Robertson has been squeezed out of their senior team. He has that many players ahead of him, you could forgive him for going at half rat power. They were 6 goals up with 10 minutes to play, and he ended up with a bloody nose because of his commitment to the contest, and statistically was 2nd best Lion on the day, out of 18 senior listed players. He isnt guaranteed a game next week, and it shows. Our boys by contrast, dont want it enough. Set THAT standard. Its way more important than gifting any young kid a game.
Look, i get it.
Set the standard, reward VFL form etc. Thats fine. That CAN lead to improvement on field. Its what we've done in the last few weeks though and how has that worked out? If we only picked blokes who were setting standards, we'd have about half a teams worth of players running out each week.
So...that ain't working. Remembering we rewarded Evans 2 weeks ago, then found him wanting and shafted him back to the 2's, now we want to promote him again? Its not helping us, him or anyone.
We have to make some very tough calls this off-season. We've got 6-7 weeks to gather a wealth of information that we normally wouldn't be able to do if we were still in finals contention. Don't blow it.
Lemmey is possibly more likely to be delisted then re-signed for next year. Are we 100% certain thats the right thing to do? Play him in the 1's and find out. White? Young? Play them. Evans and Fantasia....we know what we will get....what do we gain by playing them??
Billy Wilson....Jaxon Binns.....at this stage, i'd delist them both. Play them and see if they can surprise you. Give Charleson a crack while you can.
These blokes will give you more effort in the 1's than most of the team so far. We are not playing to win. So what are we playing for??
Title: Re: VFL 2025 Rd 16 Carlton vs Brisbane
Post by: crashlander on July 11, 2025, 06:16:05 pm
Now that I've calmed down and let the anger, frustration and disappoint dissipate, I'm not that disappointed with the result. Why? Because Brisbane have few injuries (unlike us), they have a system that our VFL boys are only learning and their team structure was far superior to ours. Look at their line-up and they have so much more experience that we do. Coleman, Doedee, McKenna and Robertson, for example. The only one we can claim to have that sort of experience is Acres, and he isn't fit. So, to get within 4 goals, and to restrict this mob to less than 100 points isn't the bad sort of loss we've seen from the seniors in recent weeks.
Does that mean I like it? Not in the least, but earlier this season (and especially last year) we would have been pounded, as we were by Southport.
What did I like? [1] Ethan Phillips: I understand that Phillips has his issues, but he had 18 marks today and 26 disposals. He may not be as physical as I'd like a key defender to be, but has to be better value than Frankie Evans, Flynn Young or Will White (whom I like). Probably better value that Corey Durdin or Lachie Fogarty. So, why didn't we select him? I don't know. [2] Billy Wilson and Jordan Boyd had very solid games and must be in line to play next week. Wilson had 23 possessions and a goal. Boyd had 19 possessions. [3] Flynn Riley probably had slightly the better of 2 listed ruckmen with 5 clearances to boot. I would be seriously considering him for a rookie spot.
Title: Re: VFL 2025 Rd 16 Carlton vs Brisbane
Post by: Lods on July 11, 2025, 06:41:31 pm
Now that I've calmed down and let the anger, frustration and disappoint dissipate, I'm not that disappointed with the result. Why? Because Brisbane have few injuries (unlike us), they have a system that our VFL boys are only learning and their team structure was far superior to ours. Look at their line-up and they have so much more experience that we do. Coleman, Doedee, McKenna and Robertson, for example. The only one we can claim to have that sort of experience is Acres, and he isn't fit. So, to get within 4 goals, and to restrict this mob to less than 100 points isn't the bad sort of loss we've seen from the seniors in recent weeks.
Does that mean I like it? Not in the least, but earlier this season (and especially last year) we would have been pounded, as we were by Southport.
What did I like? [1] Ethan Phillips: I understand that Phillips has his issues, but he had 18 marks today and 26 disposals. He may not be as physical as I'd like a key defender to be, but has to be better value than Frankie Evans, Flynn Young or Will White (whom I like). Probably better value that Corey Durdin or Lachie Fogarty. So, why didn't we select him? I don't know. [2] Billy Wilson and Jordan Boyd had very solid games and must be in line to play next week. Wilson had 23 possessions and a goal. Boyd had 19 possessions. [3] Flynn Riley probably had slightly the better of 2 listed ruckmen with 5 clearances to boot. I would be seriously considering him for a rookie spot.
I like Flynn. I hope we do give him a development spot. Phillips is someone who looks a class above this level...especially his marking, I think one of the knocks on him has been his disposal but his efficiency was up in the high 80s today.
Title: Re: VFL 2025 Rd 16 Carlton vs Brisbane
Post by: Micky0 on July 11, 2025, 08:24:12 pm
Boyd has something we need - play him in the seniors for the rest of the season.
Title: Re: VFL 2025 Rd 16 Carlton vs Brisbane
Post by: Baggers on July 11, 2025, 08:29:58 pm
Boyd has something we need - play him in the seniors for the rest of the season.
Yep. He does odd things like ...Hit team mates on the chest with bullet passes, take a risk, take on the game, hardness at the aggott and man, enthusiasm, hunger for the contest, controlled aggression... not sure if our seniors can accommodate such things.