Princes Park => Robert Heatley Stand => Topic started by: Lods on August 28, 2025, 12:39:25 pm
Title: Annus horribilis
Post by: Lods on August 28, 2025, 12:39:25 pm
Annus horribilis- No it's not an ugly bum, it's Latin for "Horrible year".
Apart from maybe 2002, can we think of another year that matches the challenges this one has thrown up. We thought last year was bad , but this one was a whole new level.
Starting with season ending injuries to a couple of key players (one a star recruit) through to some unfortunate departures at the finish, this one has been a shocker on and off the field.
Surely next year must see a change of luck.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: madbluboy on August 28, 2025, 12:42:19 pm
Well our best ruck and second best defender have walked out and our best forward wants to. 2026 is not looking good.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: LP on August 28, 2025, 12:53:27 pm
Well our best ruck and second best defender have walked out and our best forward wants to. 2026 is not looking good.
Now, I'm not talking him down in that role, he did it very well in D50, better than he has delivered anywhere else on the ground. He also filled in a couple of times on bigger bodies and did quite well, but 2nd best is some stretch.
Arguably in his best game he got the bulk of his possessions in the back half playing on and intercepting in front of opposition medium smalls while players like Weiters, Young and McGovern wrestled the bigger bodies. It's a plus for him that he is agile enough to be competitve at ground level and tall and strong enough to be dominant in the air. He did play one game where he defeated and opposition tall, Zuharr, but who was carrying an injury, and possibly SoJ's best game came against the Aints when they only really had Caminiti as a marking target when Jack covered the loss of McGovern.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: madbluboy on August 28, 2025, 01:14:32 pm
He was actually better than Weitering but missing that much footy I just couldn't give him the number 1 spot.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on August 28, 2025, 01:40:07 pm
Going to need to have a good 2026 and pocket some money for Sam Walsh too, Cal Twomey says he expects him to stay but we will need to have a good year and with three clubs according to him in the chase too its probably going to be another TDK scenario with monster offers to contend with.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: Professer E on August 28, 2025, 01:43:36 pm
Where's our monster offer for Butters or Bont or whomever. Time to return serve with spice on top.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: kruddler on August 28, 2025, 02:08:37 pm
Annus horribilis- No it's not an ugly bum, it's Latin for "Horrible year".
Apart from maybe 2002, can we think of another year that matches the challenges this one has thrown up. We thought last year was bad , but this one was a whole new level.
Starting with season ending injuries to a couple of key players (one a star recruit) through to some unfortunate departures at the finish, this one has been a shocker on and off the field.
Surely next year must see a change of luck.
I think we've had worse years inbetween 2025 and 2002.
I think our standards have increased over that time so it feels like its a lot worse than it is.
Thats not to say there haven't been issues, but every year you get a couple season ending injuries...
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: tonyo on August 28, 2025, 02:09:58 pm
It will be nice to start a season without 2 blokes doing a knee in February......
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: Thryleon on August 28, 2025, 02:26:32 pm
2012 was by far the year that I have hated the most aside from 2015.
2015 was the club giving up on football mentally. At least in 2012, we looked good for the first 3 games before most of our list fell over.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: DJC on August 28, 2025, 02:48:20 pm
Annus horribilis- No it's not an ugly bum, it's Latin for "Horrible year".
Apart from maybe 2002, can we think of another year that matches the challenges this one has thrown up. We thought last year was bad , but this one was a whole new level.
Starting with season ending injuries to a couple of key players (one a star recruit) through to some unfortunate departures at the finish, this one has been a shocker on and off the field.
Surely next year must see a change of luck.
I think we've had worse years inbetween 2025 and 2002.
I think our standards have increased over that time so it feels like its a lot worse than it is.
Thats not to say there haven't been issues, but every year you get a couple season ending injuries...
I reckon that we overachieved in 2023 but that's our benchmark now.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: Lods on August 28, 2025, 02:54:05 pm
2015 was a planned demolition. We headed for the bottom to maximise draft picks... knowing the coach wouldn't come for the ride. Killed two birds with one stone. ;)
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: Shakin77 on August 28, 2025, 05:31:27 pm
Fire sale revisited: How the Pies’ salary dump helped them fly
Could be a blessing in disguise. We need footballers that can protect the football and use it inside 50. It's our greatest need.
Hard to do that with 34, 44, 62
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: Lods on August 28, 2025, 05:40:35 pm
A poster on one of the Facebook pages has outlined some of the major issues of the season. In brief...
-Pick 3 Jagga Smith, does ACL -Newman out for the year -Kemp out for the year -Lose unexpectedly to Richmond in Round 1 -President sends a ‘dick pick’ and ends up resigning -Lose a number of games after leading early. -Miss finals and don't have first or second pick -E Hollands and Harry have mental Health issues. Elijah’s future is uncertain -Harry O'Farrell has best game, Does ACL the following week -Jack Martin kicks 6 in a game, and Matt Kennedy has a very good year -TDK leaves -Curnow wants to leave -Silvagni goes to defence and is playing great football... until he gets injured -Then Silvagni announces he is leaving for darker pastures -AFL hints at changing father son rule the year we have a top prospect in Cody Walker ….and injuries continue to impact heavily on the season. Anything else?
You think it's been bad? I think it qualified. ;)
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: laj on August 28, 2025, 06:07:22 pm
I think we've had worse years inbetween 2025 and 2002.
I think our standards have increased over that time so it feels like its a lot worse than it is.
Thats not to say there haven't been issues, but every year you get a couple season ending injuries...
I reckon that we overachieved in 2023 but that's our benchmark now.
No, we under achieved every other year. If we had've worked like we should've have early that year we wouldn't have been 4-9 and a fair chance ended up premiers.
2023 was our potential. You can't over-achieved as you are only born with so much genetic ability.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: LP on August 28, 2025, 07:53:46 pm
He was actually better than Weitering but missing that much footy I just couldn't give him the number 1 spot.
Sorry, but I think that's fanboy talk, the surname and history at work again.
Weitering was clearly our best defender, even our own forum voting indicates that, based on the full season I wouldn't have even rated SoJ ahead of Haynes. At very best he's 3rd place, but if he's ahead of others it's borderline at best.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: crashlander on August 28, 2025, 09:07:15 pm
I don't think this is the worst year we've had, but it was truly a shocker. I am glad we found a few late in the season, but it is hard to get past this list. My comments in colour.
A poster on one of the Facebook pages has outlined some of the major issues of the season. In brief...
-Pick 3 Jagga Smith, does ACL Totally ruined our attempt at injecting pace and run into our midfield. The only positive was that it gave the lad a chance to develop his body for 2026. -Newman out for the year Probably the 2nd worst thing to happen, as it robbed us of his leadership, his ability to good players done and his decision making. Hopefully, he can come back in 2026 as good as ever. -Kemp out for the year When he was finally showing what we wanted, :( -Lose unexpectedly to Richmond in Round 1 That was like a knife in the heart, to lead by so much and to fall over against this bunch of babies. -President sends a ‘dick pick’ and ends up resigning Embarassing. Hopefully his replacement will end up like Ian Rice and reign over our return to glory. -Lose a number of games after leading early. -Miss finals and don't have first or second pick We made a bold move to get Jagga, which was cruelled before he could show what he could do. The consequences of our downfall, alas, are dire. I don't think our recruiters could guess that was going to happen, but it certainly made us pay a much higher price than we should have. -E Hollands and Harry have mental Health issues. Elijah’s future is uncertain Again, these two could not be foreseen, and they cost us dearly. Hopefully, we can move on from these and get them going strongly in 2026. -Harry O'Farrell has best game, Does ACL the following week -Jack Martin kicks 6 in a game, and Matt Kennedy has a very good year Disappointing, but not as lethal as some of the other disasters. As for Martin, he has yet to prove that he is any more durable. -TDK leaves Not good. :( -Curnow wants to leave A disaster. -Silvagni goes to defence and is playing great football... until he gets injured -Then Silvagni announces he is leaving for darker pastures One of the real lowlights of 2025. -AFL hints at changing father son rule the year we have a top prospect in Cody Walker Unacceptable! We simply cannot allow this to occur! ….and injuries continue to impact heavily on the season. You cannot win many games with half of your best lineup not on the park. Anything else?
You think it's been bad? I think it qualified. ;)
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: Gointocarlton on August 28, 2025, 10:13:45 pm
This will be the clean out we needed to have, all the toxic influences will be gone, all the those who are either not good enough or passed it will be moved on and we will bring in new blood and talent. Bring it on I say.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: madbluboy on August 28, 2025, 10:51:41 pm
He was actually better than Weitering but missing that much footy I just couldn't give him the number 1 spot.
Sorry, but I think that's fanboy talk, the surname and history at work again.
Weitering was clearly our best defender, even our own forum voting indicates that, based on the full season I wouldn't have even rated SoJ ahead of Haynes. At very best he's 3rd place, but if he's ahead of others it's borderline at best.
Champion data.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: kruddler on August 29, 2025, 12:00:54 am
Sorry, but I think that's fanboy talk, the surname and history at work again.
Weitering was clearly our best defender, even our own forum voting indicates that, based on the full season I wouldn't have even rated SoJ ahead of Haynes. At very best he's 3rd place, but if he's ahead of others it's borderline at best.
Champion data.
Champion Data or not, my eyes were telling me jack was far superior. Weitering did get injured and was a liability at times too....but ended up back in good form.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: Lods on August 29, 2025, 06:45:15 am
Interesting looking at our own Jim Park voting. Silvagni was in the votes most weeks he played, but there were a couple of weeks where he was right at the top of the votes for some very good jobs on dangerous key forwards. So there's no doubt that while it lasted the experiment was working.
One of the things that often gets people a bit confused is that SOS's 'conflict of interest' over his kids was never about favouritism for his boys. It's not hard to be professional about that type of thing. I can even believe SOS probably did take himself out of decisions to pick the boys up. It can sometimes even work to the detriment of the son (or daughter) if your Dad is in charge of an important aspect like list managing as they might be harder on you to deflect criticism.
No, the issue has always been how that coach or List-man deals with the other players in the side. How would it feel if your Dad was making career ending decisions about your close friends and team-mates I'm guessing that over the years Jack would probably have heard "You're Dad is a fKn prick" more than once. Even as list manager for another side where he's plucking quality players from your side it would be more than uncomfortable. I can understand that as being a situation Jack would have found difficult to deal with over his career. It's possibly caused conflict with other players and coaches. He may have even overheard conversations about his dad that upset him. Was it a big factor in his decision? I think that is a much better reason for leaving than "I'm looking for a bit of success"
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: kruddler on August 29, 2025, 07:27:44 am
@Lods... The conflict was somewhat made up by liddle who got his feelings hurt when he tried to do his own recruitingnof his Richmond mates and sos shot him down.
Other than that I think it could be 'put in a good word for me' that Jack was burdened with.
Honestly, I think the biggest issue is something nobody has suggested yet.
Stephen may have voiced his thoughts on what the club should be doing and what he would do if he was still there.
I expect it to be something like Stephen saying to Jack.... - No way they should be letting go of a-grade talent like martin - No way they should trade out Mr consistent Kennedy. - One of the biggest holes they have could be fixed by getting Dan Houston and they let him walk to the pies. - they've recruited too many small.forwards when they could've got....that guy.
Ultimately a lot.of what he said comes true, jack sees this and loses faith in Austin and co to build a list properly and jumps ship before it sinks further.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: LP on August 29, 2025, 07:57:29 am
It can sometimes even work to the detriment of the son (or daughter) if your Dad is in charge of an important aspect like list managing as they might be harder on you to deflect criticism.
SOS could have easily moved aside, stepped down, took a leave of absence, etc., etc.. in much the same way Donald McDonald did at Norp, and there would have been no conflict.
But SOS put himself first as he always does, the same as he did on Jack's milestone game, the same as he did with our club's turmoil in the past. Even Jo was caught on camera more than once ribbing SOS about his demeanour.
It's an inglorious legacy, it doesn't change his status as a footballer, it's not a commentary about his business skills, but it happened and there is no changing it, no amount of fanboy banter will ever erase it.
Liddle didn't create the situation, SOS created it, all Liddle did was point to the Elephant in the room.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: Thryleon on August 29, 2025, 08:09:27 am
@Lods... The conflict was somewhat made up by liddle who got his feelings hurt when he tried to do his own recruitingnof his Richmond mates and sos shot him down.
Other than that I think it could be 'put in a good word for me' that Jack was burdened with.
Honestly, I think the biggest issue is something nobody has suggested yet.
Stephen may have voiced his thoughts on what the club should be doing and what he would do if he was still there.
I expect it to be something like Stephen saying to Jack.... - No way they should be letting go of a-grade talent like martin - No way they should trade out Mr consistent Kennedy. - One of the biggest holes they have could be fixed by getting Dan Houston and they let him walk to the pies. - they've recruited too many small.forwards when they could've got....that guy.
Ultimately a lot.of what he said comes true, jack sees this and loses faith in Austin and co to build a list properly and jumps ship before it sinks further.
what was that again about a lack of recruiting of alternative key position players? Would it be that potentially we'd recruit an upgrade for Jack?
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: Lods on August 29, 2025, 09:07:48 am
@Lods... The conflict was somewhat made up by liddle who got his feelings hurt when he tried to do his own recruitingnof his Richmond mates and sos shot him down.
Other than that I think it could be 'put in a good word for me' that Jack was burdened with.
Honestly, I think the biggest issue is something nobody has suggested yet.
Stephen may have voiced his thoughts on what the club should be doing and what he would do if he was still there.
I expect it to be something like Stephen saying to Jack.... - No way they should be letting go of a-grade talent like martin - No way they should trade out Mr consistent Kennedy. - One of the biggest holes they have could be fixed by getting Dan Houston and they let him walk to the pies. - they've recruited too many small.forwards when they could've got....that guy.
Ultimately a lot.of what he said comes true, jack sees this and loses faith in Austin and co to build a list properly and jumps ship before it sinks further.
I think SOS's antics since leaving Carlton suggest that the 'villains of the piece' may not have been Liddle and Co alone. I'd suspect there was fault on both sides...but people will come down on the side of a favourite. It could very well have been a clash of the hard headed, obstinate, need to be proven right and grudge holding. These are not necessarily a combination conducive to co-operation...and in all that, the thing that suffers most is the club.
Jack would have a pretty good idea of the talent and worth of his team-mates. In fact he'd probably have a much better idea than SOS who hasn't been at the club for a few years. But it's fair to say Jack's decision may have been influenced by what has happened to 'friends'...and if that's the case he's judging on personal relationships and not what is best for the club.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: Blue Moon on August 29, 2025, 09:08:21 am
Always remember, no matter how bad things get they can always get worse.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: cookie2 on August 29, 2025, 09:18:13 am
Plenty of very BIG egos floating around the club over the years breeding no doubt a testosterone fuelled culture. Pretty much guarantees a breeding ground for disputes where no prisoners are taken. Can be very damaging and difficult to get things done, especially if there is constant sniper fire.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: MickyO on August 29, 2025, 09:27:44 am
Always remember, no matter how bad things get they can always get worse.
lol way to go to make us feel better 😂
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: tonyo on August 29, 2025, 09:28:25 am
Looks like this is turning into a big clean out.
I hope it doesn't mean 5 more years in the wilderness......
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: MickyO on August 29, 2025, 09:31:39 am
I was looking at JSOSs Instagram last night and saw that Jack Martin was one of his groomsmen. So personal relationships might play a part.
Who knows, only they do.
Didn’t SOS recruit two of the best mates of either JSOS or Ben too? That were given a year and then flicked because they didn’t have the talent? Finbar I think?
Anyway it all feels like there’s bitterness involved - does SOS seem to be friendly with any of his ex teammates?
Of all the players to offer a monster contract to, why TDK…?
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: bratblue on August 29, 2025, 10:05:28 am
Interesting looking at our own Jim Park voting. Silvagni was in the votes most weeks he played, but there were a couple of weeks where he was right at the top of the votes for some very good jobs on dangerous key forwards. So there's no doubt that while it lasted the experiment was working.
One of the things that often gets people a bit confused is that SOS's 'conflict of interest' over his kids was never about favouritism for his boys. It's not hard to be professional about that type of thing. I can even believe SOS probably did take himself out of decisions to pick the boys up. It can sometimes even work to the detriment of the son (or daughter) if your Dad is in charge of an important aspect like list managing as they might be harder on you to deflect criticism.
No, the issue has always been how that coach or List-man deals with the other players in the side. How would it feel if your Dad was making career ending decisions about your close friends and team-mates I'm guessing that over the years Jack would probably have heard "You're Dad is a fKn prick" more than once. Even as list manager for another side where he's plucking quality players from your side it would be more than uncomfortable. I can understand that as being a situation Jack would have found difficult to deal with over his career. It's possibly caused conflict with other players and coaches. He may have even overheard conversations about his dad that upset him. Was it a big factor in his decision? I think that is a much better reason for leaving than "I'm looking for a bit of success"
If Jack ends up at St Kilda then I think you could put that argument to rest.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: Lods on August 29, 2025, 10:17:59 am
Interesting looking at our own Jim Park voting. Silvagni was in the votes most weeks he played, but there were a couple of weeks where he was right at the top of the votes for some very good jobs on dangerous key forwards. So there's no doubt that while it lasted the experiment was working.
One of the things that often gets people a bit confused is that SOS's 'conflict of interest' over his kids was never about favouritism for his boys. It's not hard to be professional about that type of thing. I can even believe SOS probably did take himself out of decisions to pick the boys up. It can sometimes even work to the detriment of the son (or daughter) if your Dad is in charge of an important aspect like list managing as they might be harder on you to deflect criticism.
No, the issue has always been how that coach or List-man deals with the other players in the side. How would it feel if your Dad was making career ending decisions about your close friends and team-mates I'm guessing that over the years Jack would probably have heard "You're Dad is a fKn prick" more than once. Even as list manager for another side where he's plucking quality players from your side it would be more than uncomfortable. I can understand that as being a situation Jack would have found difficult to deal with over his career. It's possibly caused conflict with other players and coaches. He may have even overheard conversations about his dad that upset him. Was it a big factor in his decision? I think that is a much better reason for leaving than "I'm looking for a bit of success"
If Jack ends up at St Kilda then I think you could put that argument to rest.
Not really...Because it will become an issue there as well. How will the Saints players feel about those list decisions if Jack is well looked after....locked in for years, while their future remains uncertain. Good luck making friends. I think Jack to St Kilda would be a stupid and potentially destabilising move It's also why I hope they do it. ;)
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: tonyo on August 29, 2025, 10:20:43 am
Interesting looking at our own Jim Park voting. Silvagni was in the votes most weeks he played, but there were a couple of weeks where he was right at the top of the votes for some very good jobs on dangerous key forwards. So there's no doubt that while it lasted the experiment was working.
One of the things that often gets people a bit confused is that SOS's 'conflict of interest' over his kids was never about favouritism for his boys. It's not hard to be professional about that type of thing. I can even believe SOS probably did take himself out of decisions to pick the boys up. It can sometimes even work to the detriment of the son (or daughter) if your Dad is in charge of an important aspect like list managing as they might be harder on you to deflect criticism.
No, the issue has always been how that coach or List-man deals with the other players in the side. How would it feel if your Dad was making career ending decisions about your close friends and team-mates I'm guessing that over the years Jack would probably have heard "You're Dad is a fKn prick" more than once. Even as list manager for another side where he's plucking quality players from your side it would be more than uncomfortable. I can understand that as being a situation Jack would have found difficult to deal with over his career. It's possibly caused conflict with other players and coaches. He may have even overheard conversations about his dad that upset him. Was it a big factor in his decision? I think that is a much better reason for leaving than "I'm looking for a bit of success"
If Jack ends up at St Kilda then I think you could put that argument to rest.
Maybe his sniffing around at Collingwood, Bulldogs and Essendon was just a smokescreen for a planned move to Saints all along? It provides him with an excuse to counteract the obvious observation that he can only get a game at clubs when Dad oversees the playing list......
I am now seriously p***ed off at Silvagni Snr. It can't be fun spending you whole life sucking lemons and getting more bitter every day.
We took John Elliott's name off a Grandstand at Princes Park - are we allowed to scratch names off a locker?
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: madbluboy on August 29, 2025, 10:24:59 am
SOS is just doing his job. If you barracked for StKilda you would be happy.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: LP on August 29, 2025, 10:33:11 am
what was that again about a lack of recruiting of alternative key position players? Would it be that potentially we'd recruit an upgrade for Jack?
You're exposing the flaw in fan commentary.
Fans want to hard decisions, they want the brutal cuts, the big trades, but only as long as it's not one of their idols getting the chop.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: DJC on August 29, 2025, 10:33:29 am
On the wireless this morning, Bluebagger Raf Epstein reminded me of one of the best sporting headlines:
MELBOURNE BITTER, CARLTON UNITED!
Of course, it was the Sun’s (I think) response to Ron Barassi getting a clearance from Melbourne to become our captain-coach. Melbourne supporters are still bitter but it was great to be on the positive side of one of the biggest names in footy changing teams … and didn’t it pay off.
I’m not comparing TDK or Jack with Ronald Dale, but there’s no doubt that there will be bitterness among Bluebaggers. It’s the Carlton United part of the headline that is relevant to the season that’s just ended.
I think that we have been a united club since Vossy’s appointment. I don’t think that changes to assistant coaches causes bitterness as it’s just part of footy. However, the choice of replacements may have a bearing on how united the club is. “Sticking fat” with Voss is uniting … unless you don’t get on with him.
Players leaving, either by choice or force, doesn’t make any club less united. Players know that it’s the way the industry works. Players being forced to stay against their will could promote disunity, particularly if Jacob Weitering’s comments reflect a collective view. If the Bryce Gibbs experience is any guide, the playing group doesn’t particularly care, as long as any wantaway players meet expected standards.
2025 was a shocker in terms of injuries, inconsistent performances, the President, not being in finals contention, losing to arch rivals and cellar dwellers, continual media speculation, and losing Tom and Jack. Will we bounce back with a vengeance, and some new people? Was 2025 the season we had to have to take the next step? I’d like to think so 🤞
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: Lods on August 29, 2025, 10:34:03 am
SOS is just doing his job. If you barracked for StKilda you would be happy.
To cover handing out those sort of dollars you aren't going to be cutting rookies, he'll have a whole new realm of detractors once a few favourites get the chop.
We aren't the first to criticise SOS, he's doing to us now what he did to GWS, on this very forum many complained about as many of those recruits too. SOS is a DoDo disciple, so fans should not be surprised.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: Thryleon on August 29, 2025, 10:37:35 am
SOS is just doing his job. If you barracked for StKilda you would be happy.
Im not sure about that.
Distancing myself from the SOS favourite son at Carlton argument:
1. Only got the job as he was mates with Ross Lyon. 2. For all his work at GWS, they only came good once he left. 3. Brought a bunch of Ex GWS players he drafted to Carlton and they were all pretty ordinary. 4. Is repeating the pattern of bringing across players he drafted despite paying less for them than he did on draft day. Would Jack Carroll, Paddy Dow get a game anywhere else? I suppose they are low risk high reward. Liam Stocker goes ok. 5. Is reaching for players and paying a high price i.e. Tom De Koning. What has he done to earn such a price tag (recruiting free agents is good business regardless as it costs you nothing but salary cap). 6. Is looking after his son and paying him overs for the contract.
He isnt bad at his job, but Im not sure how chuffed I would be with him, and I think had he not been a silvagni we would likely label him a bit of a failure.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: LP on August 29, 2025, 10:57:20 am
He isnt bad at his job, but Im not sure how chuffed I would be with him, and I think had he not been a silvagni we would likely label him a bit of a failure.
I think that is a balanced assessment.
For me if you want to argue based on stats or dollars you can just apply the chance rule. Was he better than or worse than chance, is success by chance 50%, 40% or less?
The same applies to contract negotiations, in the current case is offering top dollars, dollars that most say is overs, really a success?
We've had such a poor historical emphasis on player development and drafting that pretty much anybody who isn't dead ordinary looks relatively good to us, but compared top peers, I'm not so sure. Just doing deals isn't a valid measure.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: kruddler on August 29, 2025, 12:06:48 pm
@Lods... The conflict was somewhat made up by liddle who got his feelings hurt when he tried to do his own recruitingnof his Richmond mates and sos shot him down.
Other than that I think it could be 'put in a good word for me' that Jack was burdened with.
Honestly, I think the biggest issue is something nobody has suggested yet.
Stephen may have voiced his thoughts on what the club should be doing and what he would do if he was still there.
I expect it to be something like Stephen saying to Jack.... - No way they should be letting go of a-grade talent like martin - No way they should trade out Mr consistent Kennedy. - One of the biggest holes they have could be fixed by getting Dan Houston and they let him walk to the pies. - they've recruited too many small.forwards when they could've got....that guy.
Ultimately a lot.of what he said comes true, jack sees this and loses faith in Austin and co to build a list properly and jumps ship before it sinks further.
what was that again about a lack of recruiting of alternative key position players? Would it be that potentially we'd recruit an upgrade for Jack?
Im not sure i understand what you are saying here. Please explain.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: kruddler on August 29, 2025, 12:13:51 pm
SOS is just doing his job. If you barracked for StKilda you would be happy.
Im not sure about that.
Distancing myself from the SOS favourite son at Carlton argument:
1. Only got the job as he was mates with Ross Lyon. 2. For all his work at GWS, they only came good once he left. 3. Brought a bunch of Ex GWS players he drafted to Carlton and they were all pretty ordinary. 4. Is repeating the pattern of bringing across players he drafted despite paying less for them than he did on draft day. Would Jack Carroll, Paddy Dow get a game anywhere else? I suppose they are low risk high reward. Liam Stocker goes ok. 5. Is reaching for players and paying a high price i.e. Tom De Koning. What has he done to earn such a price tag (recruiting free agents is good business regardless as it costs you nothing but salary cap). 6. Is looking after his son and paying him overs for the contract.
He isnt bad at his job, but Im not sure how chuffed I would be with him, and I think had he not been a silvagni we would likely label him a bit of a failure.
Looking at each thing in isolation paints a bad picture. But...
1. He is one of the most innovative list managers around 2. Look at what he did with GWS by comparing how the equivalent did with GC. He was miles ahead. 3. Fleshed out the list with bargain bin GWS players that cost us nothing. Similar to what we need now, AFL capable players who may or may not turn out in the long run. Depth. 4. Work with what you know. Everytime we get a coach, we handpick a player who used to play under him and hope thats enough to get him to come across. Daisy and Mick. Gov and Teague. Fantasia and Voss. SOS just does this better than most. 5. If you are able to manage salary cap to the point you can spend big, then you can't get angry when he spends big. 6. Hasn't actually recruited him yet. Given there is no shortage of teams wanting him, perhaps if saints supporters are against that, its because of their own bias and/or lack of understanding of Jack and his recent form.
One thing you know when you get SOS is that he won't die wondering. He will make big moves. He will make things happen.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: Thryleon on August 29, 2025, 12:41:37 pm
^^ Even he concedes he cut too deep and set us back a long time.
Thing is judging on his St. Kilda return thus far you would have to put the jury out.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: shawny on August 29, 2025, 12:43:55 pm
Distancing myself from the SOS favourite son at Carlton argument:
1. Only got the job as he was mates with Ross Lyon. 2. For all his work at GWS, they only came good once he left. 3. Brought a bunch of Ex GWS players he drafted to Carlton and they were all pretty ordinary. 4. Is repeating the pattern of bringing across players he drafted despite paying less for them than he did on draft day. Would Jack Carroll, Paddy Dow get a game anywhere else? I suppose they are low risk high reward. Liam Stocker goes ok. 5. Is reaching for players and paying a high price i.e. Tom De Koning. What has he done to earn such a price tag (recruiting free agents is good business regardless as it costs you nothing but salary cap). 6. Is looking after his son and paying him overs for the contract.
He isnt bad at his job, but Im not sure how chuffed I would be with him, and I think had he not been a silvagni we would likely label him a bit of a failure.
He will make big moves. He will make things happen.
What are all the big moves he has made at the saints apart from possibly this year?
He would do better if he removed the gigantic pole he has stuck up his ar5e.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: LP on August 29, 2025, 12:54:47 pm
Thing is judging on his St. Kilda return thus far you would have to put the jury out.
Exactly, just doing the deals isn't a result, the deals have to pay off.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: Lods on August 29, 2025, 01:00:14 pm
The coach over there isn't a big Carlton fan either having been spurned and asked to go through a process. Dinners must be fun as they air their grievances and plot their revenge :D
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: LP on August 29, 2025, 01:04:27 pm
The coach over there isn't a big Carlton fan either having been spurned and asked to go through a process. Dinners must be fun as they air their grievances and plot their revenge :D
They take the opportunity to kick the town drunk as they pass by.
It's like McGuire, he knows AFL finances in general take a hit when Carlton is on the wane, but he can't help himself, he has to strike out when presented with the opportunity. In relation to Carlton he wants the financial benefit without the cost of Carlton success.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: Professer E on August 29, 2025, 01:17:18 pm
Swapping out picks to get Blaine Boekhorst Whiley and Jaschke.... Couple of guns there...NOT. That one will live in the "what a f up file" forever.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: LP on August 29, 2025, 01:20:46 pm
Swapping out picks to get Blaine Boekhorst Whiley and Jaschke.... Couple of guns there...NOT. That one will live in the "what a f up file" forever.
You're not supposed to mention the "War"!
In the meantime, the media has rolled out Mathieson again, like that couldn't be predicted!
The passing of Pratt was the biggest negative for our club, he kept all the Megalomaniacs in check. We buckled to media and social pressures on Sayers, of course nothing to do with the club itself, but I'd have to say Sayers was a close second to Pratt in terms of keeping the club on track.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: tonyo on August 29, 2025, 01:26:50 pm
The coach over there isn't a big Carlton fan either having been spurned and asked to go through a process. Dinners must be fun as they air their grievances and plot their revenge :D
I reckon Ross Lyon would have a 'hate' list as long as your arm. He just strikes me as the type of guy who is so convinced he knows all the answers, he treats everyone who disagrees with contempt. I am certainly not disappointed that we haven't spent the last 3 years watching a Lyon-based game plan. He certainly hasn't done the Saints fans any favours, watching them play is almost a chore.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: madbluboy on August 29, 2025, 01:30:15 pm
I reckon Ross Lyon would have a 'hate' list as long as your arm. He just strikes me as the type of guy who is so convinced he knows all the answers, he treats everyone who disagrees with contempt. I am certainly not disappointed that we haven't spent the last 3 years watching a Lyon-based game plan. He certainly hasn't done the Saints fans any favours, watching them play is almost a chore.
If it wasn’t for Nas’s moments of brilliance, I’d rather stick pins in my 👁️ than watch a St Kilda game.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: madbluboy on August 29, 2025, 01:35:19 pm
The coach over there isn't a big Carlton fan either having been spurned and asked to go through a process. Dinners must be fun as they air their grievances and plot their revenge :D
I reckon Ross Lyon would have a 'hate' list as long as your arm. He just strikes me as the type of guy who is so convinced he knows all the answers, he treats everyone who disagrees with contempt. I am certainly not disappointed that we haven't spent the last 3 years watching a Lyon-based game plan. He certainly hasn't done the Saints fans any favours, watching them play is almost a chore.
We both won the same amount of games this season.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: kruddler on August 29, 2025, 01:37:07 pm
He will make big moves. He will make things happen.
What are all the big moves he has made at the saints apart from possibly this year?
He would do better if he removed the gigantic pole he has stuck up his ar5e.
Don't disagree with the last part.
Honestly i don't take too much notice of the saints and their list and indivodual moves. The fact that he has managed to build this war chest is enough of a move for me.
How come 17 other teams don't have the same war chest?
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: PaulP on August 29, 2025, 01:52:00 pm
I find it very hard to believe that Ross Lyon or Steve Silvagni are making any decisions based on revenge. If that's true, the St Kilda fans should absolutely revolt and demand they both be sacked. Appalling lack of professionalism, if true.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: DJC on August 29, 2025, 02:00:29 pm
How come 17 other teams don't have the same war chest?
Good question! The TPP rules don’t allow clubs to bank enough savings to cover the largesse SOS is piling on Nas, TDK and whoever else he fancies. Front- and back-loaded contracts won’t do it either.
There will have to be significant cost cutting, or an AFL blind eye, if St Kilda’s books are to balance.
Despite the reported dinner where players allegedly agreed to take haircuts, managers will be looking for greener fields.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on August 29, 2025, 02:04:41 pm
I think SOS is better at his job after the GWS and Carlton experience where he had his hit and misses. Its probably going to be his last recruiting job especially if the Saints fail to fire a shot in the next couple of years. Does he enjoy seeing us suffer and fail, yep Im sure he does, does he make it a priority in his job to try and screw us over, probably not. Will he stop at trying to recruit our best players??...I dont think so. Eg Id be predicting Sam Walsh gets a mega offer from several clubs including Stkilda and we might see another TDK scenario.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: tonyo on August 29, 2025, 02:09:18 pm
I reckon Ross Lyon would have a 'hate' list as long as your arm. He just strikes me as the type of guy who is so convinced he knows all the answers, he treats everyone who disagrees with contempt. I am certainly not disappointed that we haven't spent the last 3 years watching a Lyon-based game plan. He certainly hasn't done the Saints fans any favours, watching them play is almost a chore.
We both won the same amount of games this season.
Saints won 4 of their last 5 - melb by 6 pts (after being down by 8 goals), NM by 9 pts, Rich by 4 pts, Ess by 2 pts, all with Wanganeen-Milera completely on fire. Hardly breath-taking form. Even with our crap season, we were far more convincing than them.
Many pundits suggested that Rich v St Kilda game would make the podium for the worst AFL game of all time. imagine watching that rubbish on a weekly basis.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: madbluboy on August 29, 2025, 02:42:31 pm
Didn't we get pumped by North and Richmond lol?
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: frostydog on August 29, 2025, 03:01:00 pm
Maybe, and just a maybe, our 2025 is Richmond's 2016. We know what happened after that.
Maybe, and just a maybe, our 2025 is Richmond's 2016. We know what happened after that.
It's true, that as fans maybe we can't see or won't see the rot for the trees, and perhaps Wright is the arborist.
One of the things I never questioned about Malthouse was how forthright he could be, he always stated Carlton was a very very different club, by that I read that it was upside down, a dog being wagged by the tail, management run by supporters, etc., etc..
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: Gointocarlton on August 29, 2025, 04:07:23 pm
I find it very hard to believe that Ross Lyon or Steve Silvagni are making any decisions based on revenge. If that's true, the St Kilda fans should absolutely revolt and demand they both be sacked. Appalling lack of professionalism, if true.
Ill bet my left one they are.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: Lods on August 29, 2025, 04:11:25 pm
Neither are friends of Carlton.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: LP on August 29, 2025, 05:23:45 pm
Ross Lyon had terrific success at VFL level, can he go the step further, he had several attempts and failed by the slimmest of margins, is the jury is out?
For me there is a world of difference between making finals and winning a flag, one comes from satisfactory management, the other comes from exemplary management mixed with good luck.
Personally, there is nothing in the recent Ross Lyon game plan that has me thinking they could win a flag, in fact late last season it was back to the bad Ross. He does have a system but you need more than that, you need the exceptional and Ross appears to hate exceptions, Roos love robots. He looks like a perennial runner up, and in that case if you are 2nd you might as well be another Nthmond.
But of course if you are there, then there is always the possibility of a Bradbury moment.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: tonyo on August 29, 2025, 05:28:07 pm
I find it very hard to believe that Ross Lyon or Steve Silvagni are making any decisions based on revenge. If that's true, the St Kilda fans should absolutely revolt and demand they both be sacked. Appalling lack of professionalism, if true.
Ill bet my left one they are.
You can have my right one to make a pair over that......
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: DJC on August 29, 2025, 05:29:38 pm
I wanted to make that suggestion but couldn't remember what year it was. I do recall they came up short. Again and again. Then. Bang. They were unbeatable despite some positional issues.
I'm no spring chicken so I hope you're right.
Go Blues
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: LoveNavy on August 29, 2025, 09:54:31 pm
How come 17 other teams don't have the same war chest?
Good question! The TPP rules don’t allow clubs to bank enough savings to cover the largesse SOS is piling on Nas, TDK and whoever else he fancies. Front- and back-loaded contracts won’t do it either.
There will have to be significant cost cutting, or an AFL blind eye, if St Kilda’s books are to balance.
Despite the reported dinner where players allegedly agreed to take haircuts, managers will be looking for greener fields.
I'm no mathematician but something doesn't quite add up
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: Professer E on August 29, 2025, 10:34:39 pm
The math ain't mathing as my late father used to say.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: kruddler on August 29, 2025, 10:39:05 pm
Good question! The TPP rules don’t allow clubs to bank enough savings to cover the largesse SOS is piling on Nas, TDK and whoever else he fancies. Front- and back-loaded contracts won’t do it either.
There will have to be significant cost cutting, or an AFL blind eye, if St Kilda’s books are to balance.
Despite the reported dinner where players allegedly agreed to take haircuts, managers will be looking for greener fields.
I'm no mathematician but something doesn't quite add up
IMO, its actually legit.
How many A-graders do the saints have? How many solid veterans on big coin to they have? Front load contracts, bank cash every year. Eventually you've gotta use it.....and oh are they using it.
Rumours had it that TDK gets a 2mil signing bonus up front....and less later. That ties in with having a war chest you need to spend it before you lose it.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: DJC on August 30, 2025, 12:49:04 am
I'm no mathematician but something doesn't quite add up
IMO, its actually legit.
How many A-graders do the saints have? How many solid veterans on big coin to they have? Front load contracts, bank cash every year. Eventually you've gotta use it.....and oh are they using it.
Rumours had it that TDK gets a 2mil signing bonus up front....and less later. That ties in with having a war chest you need to spend it before you lose it.
Teams can underspend 5% of their TPP and carry it forward. Is there any evidence that St Kilda had an underspend this season? We’ll find out early next year.
Regardless of whether they do have savings, and whether TDK, will get an extra $200K next season, they still have to pay close to $4M to two players in 2027. That’s more than 20% of their TPP on two players. Even if most of their players were on the minimum, that’s going to be a challenge.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: Lods on August 30, 2025, 06:47:38 am
They're spending has to be legitimate...for the moment. They've essentially got a neon sign and flashing lights saying "Check our Salary Cap, we're spending some outrageous amounts"
While it may be right for the present, as DJC says it will be a challenge in the future. Good luck signing NWM at the end of his current contract.
Their planning seems to be based on a flag in a year or two...or bust. Which is kind of the opposite to the "sustained success that SOS preached while he was with us. That's what Ross would be after before he walks away...that elusive "Premiership coach" tag.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: Gointocarlton on August 30, 2025, 07:12:50 am
They're spending has to be legitimate...for the moment. They've essentially got a neon sign and flashing lights saying "Check our Salary Cap, we're spending some outrageous amounts"
While it may be right for the present, as DJC says it will be a challenge in the future. Good luck signing NWM at the end of his current contract.
Their planning seems to be based on a flag in a year or two...or bust. Which is kind of the opposite to the "sustained success that SOS preached while he was with us. That's what Ross would be after before he walks away...that elusive "Premiership coach" tag.
They can forget about keeping NWM after his 2 years. Ross is throwing a Hail Mary trying to buy a premiership before he hands over to Boris.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: kruddler on August 30, 2025, 07:16:48 am
How many A-graders do the saints have? How many solid veterans on big coin to they have? Front load contracts, bank cash every year. Eventually you've gotta use it.....and oh are they using it.
Rumours had it that TDK gets a 2mil signing bonus up front....and less later. That ties in with having a war chest you need to spend it before you lose it.
Teams can underspend 5% of their TPP and carry it forward. Is there any evidence that St Kilda had an underspend this season? We’ll find out early next year.
Regardless of whether they do have savings, and whether TDK, will get an extra $200K next season, they still have to pay close to $4M to two players in 2027. That’s more than 20% of their TPP on two players. Even if most of their players were on the minimum, that’s going to be a challenge.
I understand how much they are paying in the future, but you need to look at the now and the past first.
We have cripps Charlie harry weiters....some might throw in McGovern, Saad, Williams and cerra.....and then you have tdk. All on huge money to varying degrees.
Do the same thing with the saints. I doubt you'll come up with half that list and even then, it's not to the same extent. Who are they paying....Marshall? Hill?? Anyone else??
They wouldve been front loading and banking for a few years now. All planning towards this moment.
We saw it with sos while he was with us. Year on year we were throwing cash around. We never could get the players to commit though. He's solved that problem.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: kruddler on August 30, 2025, 07:19:52 am
They're spending has to be legitimate...for the moment. They've essentially got a neon sign and flashing lights saying "Check our Salary Cap, we're spending some outrageous amounts"
While it may be right for the present, as DJC says it will be a challenge in the future. Good luck signing NWM at the end of his current contract.
Their planning seems to be based on a flag in a year or two...or bust. Which is kind of the opposite to the "sustained success that SOS preached while he was with us. That's what Ross would be after before he walks away...that elusive "Premiership coach" tag.
The trick is getting enough talent into the club first. Once it's there, then getting more talent is easier as if you are competitive players will sign for.less and take paycuts on current contracts to get more.talent through the door.
They are banking on a steep rise and then loyalty and a desire to keep the group together for success to do the rest later.
It's brilliant if it works. In just not sure I would've chosen tdk as part of that resurgence.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: madbluboy on August 30, 2025, 07:53:39 am
I think some here would be shocked at how little the bulk of players make.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: Thryleon on August 30, 2025, 09:06:49 am
I listed a few players that would be on overs.
Wilkie King Steele Higgins Hill Sinclair Marshall Butler Jones
In terms of front loading they shelled out big bucks for Jake Carlisle way back when and regularly have attracted players over across the journey.
Not sure how much front loading you can achieve when you've thrown money at players repeatedly but I suppose it tracks.
Every player from another club would be on overs. That doesnt mean their current spend isnt warranted. Its just not a pittance some make out.
Clubs that make finals get extra bonuses in their cap. Saints haven't featured more than once in recent years.
Even the spuds get overs to change clubs. Are the bulldogs paying mccrae or is he on peanuts too?
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: kruddler on August 30, 2025, 09:36:43 am
Wilkie King Steele Higgins Hill Sinclair Marshall Butler Jones
In terms of front loading they shelled out big bucks for Jake Carlisle way back when and regularly have attracted players over across the journey.
Not sure how much front loading you can achieve when you've thrown money at players repeatedly but I suppose it tracks.
Every player from another club would be on overs. That doesnt mean their current spend isnt warranted. Its just not a pittance some make out.
Clubs that make finals get extra bonuses in their cap. Saints haven't featured more than once in recent years.
Even the spuds get overs to change clubs. Are the bulldogs paying mccrae or is he on peanuts too?
Carlisle retired 4 years ago, what the hell has that got to do with anything now??
Wilkie is on about what we are offering jack which is why he's in the craps. Ditto Steele. King is signed up for the next 7 years and you get that at a huge discount. Marshall is on less than half what tdk is getting which is why he'll leave.
Despite all of that, none come close to the contracts of any of the players i mentioned from us....and yhe others you list are on less again.
So how can we be under the cap, with 2mil to spend and they not be able to pay the same?
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: Professer E on August 30, 2025, 09:52:49 am
We're only under the cap because TdK and Jack have $#@ed off and the contracts of overpaid spuds like McG have run out and they're they're being shifted onto smaller biccies commensurate with their output. We also drafted a lot of kids last year and other than Haynes didn't trade in. Other blokes were/are being let go once contracts end....Fantasia, Owies, Cincotta etc etc I agree with Thry, none of sniffers players listed are on base payments, even at the mooted 800 K for Hill and King ("cheap rates" supposedly) there's no way the average across the playing group gives them this huge buffer in the cap. No way. The math ain't mathing. That's why they want to ditch Steele (on big coin) and screw Windhager. It's bluffing with a pair.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on August 30, 2025, 10:17:32 am
Steele is another with a big front ended contract, on peanuts now...Saints have upped their offer to Windhagar and he looks like staying.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: kruddler on August 30, 2025, 10:20:19 am
We're only under the cap because TdK and Jack have $#@ed off and the contracts of overpaid spuds like McG have run out and they're they're being shifted onto smaller biccies commensurate with their output. We also drafted a lot of kids last year and other than Haynes didn't trade in. Other blokes were/are being let go once contracts end....Fantasia, Owies, Cincotta etc etc I agree with Thry, none of sniffers players listed are on base payments, even at the mooted 800 K for Hill and King ("cheap rates" supposedly) there's no way the average across the playing group gives them this huge buffer in the cap. No way. The math ain't mathing. That's why they want to ditch Steele (on big coin) and screw Windhager. It's bluffing with a pair.
We could afford to offer 1.8 mil for 2 players already on our list, on top of all the 1mil-ish players we already have and all the overpaid players we already have.
Its really not that hard.
The bigger question is how someone like Tigers, West Coast, North are getting anywhere near the minimum of the cap with the crap they have.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: Shakin77 on August 30, 2025, 10:42:27 am
Steele is another with a big front ended contract, on peanuts now...Saints have upped their offer to Windhagar and he looks like staying.
Steele has always been on shaky ground with Ross. When Ross arrived, he told Steele and Ross (I think) that they both needed to drop weight and cover the ground better. He has had an average year and finished off as the sub. Interesting to see what they do with him moving forward.
Liam Henry has dropped off the radar. Looked good towards the end of 2024 and late this year Collard was preferred to him.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: Professer E on August 30, 2025, 11:31:05 am
Another on reasonable coin (because he was lured out) who'll get the flick for cap relief. You'd get him for a fourth rounder.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: Thryleon on August 30, 2025, 12:14:56 pm
Wilkie King Steele Higgins Hill Sinclair Marshall Butler Jones
In terms of front loading they shelled out big bucks for Jake Carlisle way back when and regularly have attracted players over across the journey.
Not sure how much front loading you can achieve when you've thrown money at players repeatedly but I suppose it tracks.
Every player from another club would be on overs. That doesnt mean their current spend isnt warranted. Its just not a pittance some make out.
Clubs that make finals get extra bonuses in their cap. Saints haven't featured more than once in recent years.
Even the spuds get overs to change clubs. Are the bulldogs paying mccrae or is he on peanuts too?
Carlisle retired 4 years ago, what the hell has that got to do with anything now??
Wilkie is on about what we are offering jack which is why he's in the craps. Ditto Steele. King is signed up for the next 7 years and you get that at a huge discount. Marshall is on less than half what tdk is getting which is why he'll leave.
Despite all of that, none come close to the contracts of any of the players i mentioned from us....and yhe others you list are on less again.
So how can we be under the cap, with 2mil to spend and they not be able to pay the same?
jeez mate, its not hard to work out. They've paid big for him, and they had their current players wouldnt be on peanuts.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: kruddler on August 30, 2025, 12:26:52 pm
Carlisle retired 4 years ago, what the hell has that got to do with anything now??
Wilkie is on about what we are offering jack which is why he's in the craps. Ditto Steele. King is signed up for the next 7 years and you get that at a huge discount. Marshall is on less than half what tdk is getting which is why he'll leave.
Despite all of that, none come close to the contracts of any of the players i mentioned from us....and yhe others you list are on less again.
So how can we be under the cap, with 2mil to spend and they not be able to pay the same?
jeez mate, its not hard to work out. They've paid big for him, and they had their current players wouldnt be on peanuts.
So you reject the logical explanation and lean towards the conspiracy theory as the most likely explanation?
Yeah, nah.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on August 30, 2025, 02:27:13 pm
Saints must have managed their list well with money still available to chase Ryan, Aleer,Mckenzie and Flanders. A lot of it seems to have been front ended with their present playing list hence they are in a position to have this war chest to attack the trade period. You can criticise who SOS has picked over the years but he does manipulate his draft hand well turning picks into more picks and now seems to be ahead of the game how he has managed the money and one thing that hasnt been discussed is how he has timed his buying spree during what is a perceived weak draft which is smart.
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: Thryleon on August 30, 2025, 02:50:07 pm
They're spending has to be legitimate...for the moment. They've essentially got a neon sign and flashing lights saying "Check our Salary Cap, we're spending some outrageous amounts"
While it may be right for the present, as DJC says it will be a challenge in the future. Good luck signing NWM at the end of his current contract.
Their planning seems to be based on a flag in a year or two...or bust. Which is kind of the opposite to the "sustained success that SOS preached while he was with us. That's what Ross would be after before he walks away...that elusive "Premiership coach" tag.
They can forget about keeping NWM after his 2 years. Ross is throwing a Hail Mary trying to buy a premiership before he hands over to Boris.
Looks like that to me as well. Not that I'd have any real idea. Nor do I give a toss about Mr sleezy 🤢
Title: Re: Annus horribilis
Post by: Gointocarlton on August 30, 2025, 04:24:14 pm
Teams can underspend 5% of their TPP and carry it forward. Is there any evidence that St Kilda had an underspend this season? We’ll find out early next year.
Regardless of whether they do have savings, and whether TDK, will get an extra $200K next season, they still have to pay close to $4M to two players in 2027. That’s more than 20% of their TPP on two players. Even if most of their players were on the minimum, that’s going to be a challenge.
I understand how much they are paying in the future, but you need to look at the now and the past first.
We have cripps Charlie harry weiters....some might throw in McGovern, Saad, Williams and cerra.....and then you have tdk. All on huge money to varying degrees.
Do the same thing with the saints. I doubt you'll come up with half that list and even then, it's not to the same extent. Who are they paying....Marshall? Hill?? Anyone else??
They wouldve been front loading and banking for a few years now. All planning towards this moment.
We saw it with sos while he was with us. Year on year we were throwing cash around. We never could get the players to commit though. He's solved that problem.
That's all well and good but clubs must spend at least 95% of their TPP. If the Saints had an underspend this year. they must still have forked out at least $16.8M. Next season's TPP is rolled in with an increase of the soft cap but it's set at $18.4M for 2027 so, split the difference and go with $18M. That goes up to $18.9M if they did have a 5% underspend. With Nas and TDK raking in at least $3.8M, they've only got $15.1M to pay the other 40 odd players. Take out $800K for Leek Aleer and possibly another $800K for Silvagni, and that drops their available budget to $13.5M. That's around $350K each and Steele, Hill, King, Sinclair, Wilkie and Marshall all get considerably more than that. Haircuts and frontloading doesn't get you from $16.8M down to $15.1M or lower and they will be pushing players out the door.
I'm not saying that they can't afford to pay players next season but it's not sustainable and they won't be able retain their young talent.