Carlton Supporters Club

Police minister interview was very stern in condemning the Far left wing throwing glass shad missiles at police while the far right protesters were congratulated on following the rules. Hmmm arent the right wing aligned with being the violent ones?

The police minister sounded fed up and at breaking point putting up with these twits.

Goverments that refuse to accept any accountability and dont have the brains to do something productive to arrest the slide have turned our once great state into a debt ridden lawless violent crap hole.

Dunno Lods, I went to the same schools adjacent to Heidelberg West and Olympic Village as many former recidivists and received the same education, yet the outcome was different.  Some people just keeping making poor choices and I reckon a lot of it comes down to poor parental guidance, but everyone has their pet theory

Nothing to do with Taco and deserves its own thread:

Quote from: shawny – on October 19, 2025, 09:48:39 pm

Police minister interview was very stern in condemning the Far left wing throwing glass shad missiles at police while the far right protesters were congratulated on following the rules. Hmmm arent the right wing aligned with being the violent ones?

The police minister sounded fed up and at breaking point putting up with these twits.

Goverments that refuse to accept any accountability and dont have the brains to do something productive to arrest the slide have turned our once great state into a debt ridden lawless violent crap hole.

Quote from: DJC – on October 19, 2025, 09:57:58 pm

Nothing to do with Taco and deserves its own thread:

Shawny, I suspect you may have bought into the HUN puerile and simplistic assumption that it was 'lefties' who threw the rocks. That's called shoehorning events to suit your own political agenda. FA to do with left, right, middle, up down... whateverthefck

Dunno Lods, I went to the same schools adjacent to Heidelberg West and Olympic Village as many former recidivists and received the same education, yet the outcome was different.  Some people just keeping making poor choices and I reckon a lot of it comes down to poor parental guidance, but everyone has their pet theory

Why are we all of a sudden turning everything into 'Left' or 'Right' issues.  They aren't.  They are societal ones.  Until language and actions return to reasonableness, this division will continue.  It is well and truly time to stop.  A rally to 'Unite to fight the right'? (as one banner said). Burning police effigy's? Throwing rocks at police? Deliberately organising counter protests? Protest to improve society, not to divide it further.

While the State Government has a lot of work to do on crime, what is the opposition's response?  Their federal leader comes and visits and suggests how unsafe Victoria is (from the Dutton playbook)  What is the Vic opposition's solution?  Until we get some ideas from the opposition, we are stuck with what we have.  Tough on crime isn't a solution - it's a slogan.

In the meantime, whenever a crime is now committed, it is mentioned if the offender was on bail.  Yes, it is an issue, but is it an increasing or decreasing one?  We have to have bail laws - Government writes them, courts apply them.  Police are frustrated particularly at how they are being applied and a reluctance (?) to lock up the repeat offenders.  I have no idea where the solution is.

To me the main problem seems to be the gutless mask wearing thugs opportunistically hiding behind legitimate causes to create havoc, "Sovereign Citizens", 1%ers", "Conspiracy Nutters" and "Neo-Nazis" hiding behind university students and grandmothers.

This has little or nothing to do with the political left or right, that's just an excuse to bash a political opponent, the p1ssweak political parties are happy to schtuum it up when the target is the opposition.

Laws were passed to unmask these extremists, but they have never been enacted, it's as my signature quote states.

Step one should be removing the opportunity to profit from this sort of behaviour and a lot of it will evaporate, like that nutter who runs the Desi Retreats!

We don't know what the opposition would do as the current mob have been in power for the last 12 years and its hard to find an area of the state they have improved under their leadership.

Any half decent opposition should have been a shoe in the last few elections and its a blight on the sad state of local government that despite doing such a poor job the same party keeps getting re-elected.  The libs do little to instill confidence amongst the people but the current mob has had 12 years and look at where we are at - time is well and truly up and someone else should be given the chance to improve right the wrongs.

Quote from: LP – on October 20, 2025, 12:02:18 pm

To me the main problem seems to be the gutless mask wearing thugs opportunistically hiding behind legitimate causes to create havoc, "Sovereign Citizens", 1%ers", "Conspiracy Nutters" and "Neo-Nazis" hiding behind university students and grandmothers.

This has little or nothing to do with the political left or right, that's just an excuse to bash a political opponent, the p1ssweak political parties are happy to schtuum it up when the target is the opposition.

Laws were passed to unmask these extremists, but they have never been enacted, it's as my signature quote states.

Step one should be removing the opportunity to profit from this sort of behaviour and a lot of it will evaporate, like that nutter who runs the Desi Retreats!

Crime increases when society breaks down more and people get more desperate in their efforts to survive.
Australia has become like the old Germany post WW1 when it transitioned from a semi-authoritarian empire to the Weimar Republic, a democracy that protected individual right and limited police power. You end up with the people looking for alternatives to restore safety and  order and thats when you get right wing extremists and nutters like the Nazi Party back then or in our case One Nation gaining popularity, political support and eventually power.
A lot of what went on back then mirrors what is happening in Australia even down to recent events with Jewish folk being hassled and buildings defaced etc due to society tolerating and being weak on offenders under the banner of democracy and freedom of speech etc but it all gets down to politics.
In short you have to fix the economic problems to fix the crime problems or you will get a repeat of history on a world wide level not just Australia..
 

It was the anti racism protesters yesterday throwing rocks the size of coke cans at police.

In short you have to fix the economic problems to fix the crime problems or you will get a repeat of history on a world wide level not just Australia..

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on October 20, 2025, 01:21:30 pm

Crime increases when society breaks down more and people get more desperate in their efforts to survive.
Australia has become like the old Germany post WW1 when it transitioned from a semi-authoritarian empire to the Weimar Republic, a democracy that protected individual right and limited police power. You end up with the people looking for alternatives to restore safety and  order and thats when you get right wing extremists and nutters like the Nazi Party back then or in our case One Nation gaining popularity, political support and eventually power.
A lot of what went on back then mirrors what is happening in Australia even down to recent events with Jewish folk being hassled and buildings defaced etc due to society tolerating and being weak on offenders under the banner of democracy and freedom of speech etc but it all gets down to politics.
In short you have to fix the economic problems to fix the crime problems or you will get a repeat of history on a world wide level not just Australia..
 

We were talking about this at the dinner table tonight and the saying "the fish rots from the head" dawned on. Here you have our leaders getting on TV or on radio saying things like "there's no problem" or "Melbourne is safe". They are either delusional, dumb, talking crap/spin or all of the above. As the average Joe Blow if Melbourne is safe or If crime is in check or not and see what responses you get.
Keep burying heads in the sand and talking the softly softly approach, its got us this far so should keep working a treat...not

Quote from: Baggers – on October 20, 2025, 09:54:48 am

Shawny, I suspect you may have bought into the HUN puerile and simplistic assumption that it was 'lefties' who threw the rocks. That's called shoehorning events to suit your own political agenda. FA to do with left, right, middle, up down... whateverthefck

I didnt buy into anything simply quoted what the police minister said in his press conference which was so refreshing to see someone stand up to these lowlifes and call them out. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbliCmt0QqA

As others have said enough is enough. The politicians are weak and compulsive liars and the current lot are simply incapable of fixing the mess they caused. The machete bins fiasco says enough of the incompetence of those we elected to run the state (well i didn't but enough did unfortunately) - they focus on topics to win votes and fail to address the important issues. Our state is being overrun with criminals, majority out on bond, no repercussions for violent protesters against the law as well as the effect of letting tens of thousands of immigrants in weekly with too many that don't want to assimilate to our customs and worst part is when they commit a serious crime they is stuff all to deter the next lot from offending. Lack of mental health facilities to monitor and house those who should not be on the street. That poor chef that was stabbed in the city last week for no reason was just sickening.

As an aside, a mate who served with me in the Navy on leaving the service went into commercial TV in Sydney and was telling me only recently how in news rooms (TV and print) the footage would come in from a protest and they would edit the coverage in such a way that the focus was on scuffles, and worse, greatly exaggerating the extent of any violence.

Quote from: shawny – on October 20, 2025, 10:52:40 am

I didnt buy into anything simply quoted what the police minister said in his press conference which was so refreshing to see someone stand up to these lowlifes and call them out. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbliCmt0QqA

As others have said enough is enough. The politicians are weak and compulsive liars and the current lot are simply incapable of fixing the mess they caused. The machete bins fiasco says enough of the incompetence of those we elected to run the state (well i didn't but enough did unfortunately) - they focus on topics to win votes and fail to address the important issues. Our state is being overrun with criminals, majority out on bond, no repercussions for violent protesters against the law as well as the effect of letting tens of thousands of immigrants in weekly with too many that don't want to assimilate to our customs and worst part is when they commit a serious crime they is stuff all to deter the next lot from offending. Lack of mental health facilities to monitor and house those who should not be on the street. That poor chef that was stabbed in the city last week for no reason was just sickening.

4. Immigration. Holy mackeral I recall the same racism/xenophobia in the 50s against the poms ('The $10 immigrants'), 60s, 70s and even 80s against Greeks, Italians and Middle Eastern immigrants... then to Indian and Asian folks, and so on it goes. This is nothing new, Shawny. Seems to be spliced into the DNA of some folks (Xenophobia).

Quote from: Baggers – on October 21, 2025, 08:57:48 am

4. Immigration. Holy mackeral I recall the same racism/xenophobia in the 50s against the poms ('The $10 immigrants'), 60s, 70s and even 80s against Greeks, Italians and Middle Eastern immigrants... then to Indian and Asian folks, and so on it goes. This is nothing new, Shawny. Seems to be spliced into the DNA of some folks (Xenophobia).

Don't agree with this one - the immigrants that flooded our shores in the 50s-80s, the vast majority assimilated into the Aussie culture, worked and worked bloody hard, respected our laws and authority and if kids of Wog parents like me dared to disrespect the law or even just be rude to anyone older then we were we coped it.  From what i hear the current crop we are letting in by the tens of thousands just don't have those traits at all and its clear to see how things are headed.

The amount of crime in certain pockets of this state, in particular the western suburbs is worse than its ever been. There is no respect for the law whatsoever and regardless of which side of the political fence you sit on serious crime such as car jackings, home invasions, knife offences against civilians has never been this brazen. Everytime im out and about function party etc and im speaking to an emergency workers I always ask them for thir experiences and im yet to met one that said its the same as it was 20 years ago. They all say in different ways that there is a disproportion number of serious crimes coming from individual's from certain war torn regions. Sure there was crime in the 50, 60 and 70s from the Europeans, Asian, Indian etc but nothing like this. 

If you are not fully committed to our culture our laws our flag and our peaceful way of life and are not willing to work hard then you should not be allowed in regardless of how bad your current life is. I know it sounds a bit cold but allowing those in who don't 100% buy into our values is slowly turning our streets like the ones they escaped.

And if you commit a serious crime their citizenship should be revoked.     

Still can't believe you can't protect your own family on your own property.  Seriously, if people come onto someone's property with an intent to commit a crime common sense says you should be able to defend yours with zero legal repercussions.

Still can't believe you can't protect your own family on your own property.  Seriously, if people come onto someone's property with an intent to commit a crime common sense says you should be able to defend yours with zero legal repercussions.

Still can't believe you can't protect your own family on your own property.  Seriously, if people come onto someone's property with an intent to commit a crime common sense says you should be able to defend yours with zero legal repercussions.

The abstracts and summaries of studies I've read indicate that guns in the home don't actually make people safer, and create an increased risk of injury and fatalities unrelated to intruders.

Our security service sign and “caution - dogs on premises” sign probably mean that I won’t have to decide about trying to retrieve a firearm.

Be careful,vid your dog bites an intruder can't you be charged with assault by a dangerous animal of some such rubbish? Crazy world we live in

Be careful,vid your dog bites an intruder can't you be charged with assault by a dangerous animal of some such rubbish? Crazy world we live in

Council advised us we have to erect and maintain signage at our property saying we have a Dog and the signage has to visible from the entrance to the property. We also asked our lawyers a while back when attending to another matter and they said while not breaking any laws or being enforceable its advisable to have clear signage and the Dog restricted to the back yard.
Problem we have that being a very large male German Shepherd our dog while not classified officially as a dangerous dog is stereotyped as an aggressive breed and has less leeway if an incident was to occur and we have to be very careful with him.
In Victoria the law states:
The law expects you to act proportionately to the threat and stop using force once it’s no longer necessary.
However, once the threat is over—say, the intruders run away—it’s not lawful to chase after them and attack like a dog would do. The law expects you to act proportionately to the threat and stop using force once it’s no longer necessary.
Which in the case of Dogs becomes a grey area, if there is no one home, your little Maltese terrier or plump lab is probably going to have a nip at the intruder then call it a day but a GS, Rottie, Doberman, Akita etc are going to keep going until the intruder escapes or either subdues the dog or the reverse...
Any severe or fatal injuries is probably going to end up badly for the dog especially if the intruder was unarmed or under adult age plus you could be facing a civil suit with claims against you for owning and training a dangerous animal.

Quote from: Professer E – on October 23, 2025, 12:35:05 pm

Be careful,vid your dog bites an intruder can't you be charged with assault by a dangerous animal of some such rubbish? Crazy world we live in

If you chase them out of your house and they trip and fall, they will claim injury and you'll be charged with assault and battery. The problem isn't really the crook or the law, the problem is the crooked lawyer.

Thats a bit of a myth me thinks.
I do know of a business owner (and state level rifle shooter) who shot an intruder (wounded him the leg) who broke into his High St Northcote business in the 80s. Got off those chargers IIRC. Years later, was broken into again, again he shot the intruder in the leg but did some time for the second offence.

Quote from: Gointocarlton – on October 23, 2025, 08:31:51 pm

Thats a bit of a myth me thinks.
I do know of a business owner (and state level rifle shooter) who shot an intruder (wounded him the leg) who broke into his High St Northcote business in the 80s. Got off those chargers IIRC. Years later, was broken into again, again he shot the intruder in the leg but did some time for the second offence.

That's almost 50 years ago, and I've had a couple of encounters with a bloke called Pat Lennon that suggests otherwise.

It's not that black and white, the law takes into account cause, so if the home owner contributes to injury even for someone there illegally they can be liable. These cases are usually settled long before any formal ruling, nobody in their right mind will risk their house for a punitive amount and lawyers know it.

Crooks want cash not a cellmate.

We are discussing two different things, you are talking about post criminal convictions, I'm talking about being sued long before or in the absence of any criminal conviction. Nobody given the sensible advice would take a civil case to court risking 30K+ in legal fees if the alternative was to settle for $10k.

If you want to see the same mechanism at play study Workcover, or study how the CCCP leverages people into become spies, it's all about risk management. Why do you think companies settle or people relent, because the risk on the other side of the equation is too great.

You'd be a dead set dud if you legally advised someone to risk $30K, $50k or there house to save $10k, and it is in that margin that blokes like Lennon worked because they can. I suppose if you have cash to burn you can stand the high moral ground.

Quote from: LP – on October 24, 2025, 02:02:09 pm

We are discussing two different things, you are talking about post criminal convictions, I'm talking about being sued long before or in the absence of any criminal conviction. Nobody given the sensible advice would take a civil case to court risking 30K+ in legal fees if the alternative was to settle for $10k.

If you want to see the same mechanism at play study Workcover, or study how the CCCP leverages people into become spies, it's all about risk management. Why do you think companies settle or people relent, because the risk on the other side of the equation is too great.

You'd be a dead set dud if you legally advised someone to risk $30K, $50k or there house to save $10k, and it is in that margin that blokes like Lennon worked because they can. I suppose if you have cash to burn you can stand the high moral ground.

You cannot sue for injuries suffered while committing a crime EOS.

If you managed to get the case to court, it would be laughed out by the judge and/or jury.

“Just how did you injure your leg Mr Smith?”

“I was kicking in the door so we could do a burg yer honour.”

You cannot sue for injuries suffered while committing a crime EOS.

If you managed to get the case to court, it would be laughed out by the judge and/or jury.

“Just how did you injure your leg Mr Smith?”

“I was kicking in the door so we could do a burg yer honour.”

Quote from: DJC – on October 24, 2025, 05:47:25 pm

You cannot sue for injuries suffered while committing a crime EOS.

If you managed to get the case to court, it would be laughed out by the judge and/or jury.

“Just how did you injure your leg Mr Smith?”

“I was kicking in the door so we could do a burg yer honour.”

You haven't committed a crime until you are found guilty, at least here in Australia.

When there is a settlement there is no jury, no judge and not many questions, it all happens across a desk.

My recommendation is you have a long long calm chat with legal aid before you jump at a defence.

Victoria is mainly suffering at the hands of under 6,000 crooks and you'd think that the police, courts and politicians could come up with a more effective way of curtailing their illegal activities.

The most common principal offences for police proceedings were:

fare evasion in New South Wales (26%)
acts intended to cause injury in the Australian Capital Territory (29%), the Northern Territory (27%), and Victoria (22%)
illicit drug offences in South Australia (25%)
theft in Tasmania (24%), and Queensland (20%).

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-09-25/victoria-crime-statistics-agency-new-stats-highest-number/105814382

Machete amnesty bins cost $2,400 each.  The budget for the whole program - bins, advertising, collection, recycling, etc - is $13M, and there are 45 bins.

I was unhappy with little Johny Howard’s firearms ban - I lost my semi-auto .22 and 12 gauge - but I have to admit now that it was good public policy.

Quote from: DJC – on October 25, 2025, 10:51:40 pm

Machete amnesty bins cost $2,400 each.  The budget for the whole program - bins, advertising, collection, recycling, etc - is $13M, and there are 45 bins.

I was unhappy with little Johny Howard’s firearms ban - I lost my semi-auto .22 and 12 gauge - but I have to admit now that it was good public policy.

oh my...

Are you actually comparing the success of Howards guns laws with Jacinta machete bin debacle?

And the 'cost' of implementing this totally useless policy was a staggering $13M - pls dont try and downplay it by saying the 'bins actual cost' was $2400 as that just makes the whole thing even worse! HTF do they 'waste' over $12M of OUR money on this rubbish. All while cutting hospitals funding.

How many potholes does 12M fix? Disgusting governance whichever way you look at it.

Does a firearms and prohibited weapons course pavd the way to a firearms license, I need the old "destruction of vermin" clause on my place

The machete bins are a disgrace.

You could not hand one back with 0 recourse.   Knife wielders will just pick up another sharp blade of a different size.  Maybe something like a tomahawk axe for gardening and chopping wood.

Its not like the gun thing.  Guns have a single purpose.  To shoot. 

The bins are simply about optics.

Quote from: shawny – on October 26, 2025, 10:26:21 am

oh my...

Are you actually comparing the success of Howards guns laws with Jacinta machete bin debacle?

And the 'cost' of implementing this totally useless policy was a staggering $13M - pls dont try and downplay it by saying the 'bins actual cost' was $2400 as that just makes the whole thing even worse! HTF do they 'waste' over $12M of OUR money on this rubbish. All while cutting hospitals funding.

How many potholes does 12M fix? Disgusting governance whichever way you look at it.

I did a firearms and prohibited weapons course last weekend.  The VicPol officers presenting have a very different view of the machete ban and see it as $13M well spent.  They are actually dealing with machete crime, but what would they know?

I’m exempted from the ban by the way, but I prefer to use other implements.

The machete bins are a disgrace.

You could not hand one back with 0 recourse.   Knife wielders will just pick up another sharp blade of a different size.  Maybe something like a tomahawk axe for gardening and chopping wood.

Its not like the gun thing.  Guns have a single purpose.  To shoot. 

The bins are simply about optics.

Quote from: DJC – on October 26, 2025, 11:06:29 am

I did a firearms and prohibited weapons course last weekend.  The VicPol officers presenting have a very different view of the machete ban and see it as $13M well spent.  They are actually dealing with machete crime, but what would they know?

I’m exempted from the ban by the way, but I prefer to use other implements.

sorry this is just rubbish talk.

i have quite a few police officers in the family and all jave the same thoughts and that is the current goverment is completely at odds with reality. 

love to know honestly ‘how many’ officers actually gave you that opinion.

Where do you stop though. Machetes are ugly weapons no doubt but just looking around the kitchen or garage there are some pretty fearsome alternatives. The problem goes way beyond the choice and availability of a particular weapon.

Where do you stop though. Machetes are ugly weapons no doubt but just looking around the kitchen or garage there are some pretty fearsome alternatives. The problem goes way beyond the choice and availability of a particular weapon.

Obviously, a 76 year old is vulnerable, but shouldn't be the driver for outrage.  Yes, she will be affected in several different ways which may make her life difficult (eg fear of going out, recurring flashbacks, general feeling of being unsafe in her own home etc). 

We have gone through several times on the site about solutions - prevention and rehab programs, stronger initial penalties and stronger consequences for broken penalties eg bail.

Then it is about funding and real effectiveness of these solutions - jail can be school to become a less worse crook.

The new Chief seems to be strong on prevention - more police presence on the streets and education.  Be interesting to see the effect of the new bail laws that have just come into operation - I don't know what they are.

This all takes time.  It won't be solved tomorrow. 

Will it make a difference?  Dunno.  Youth crime seems to be much more brazen now - offenders don't care if there are alarms or cameras, whether it is 3am or 3pm, who sees them, whether there is anyone home etc.  It will take time to turn this around.

The Liberal policy seems to be Jack's law (greater search powers on the street), rehab (school, post offending programs, mentoring), and if bail is broken, a holiday courtesy of the King is awaiting.  Cynical me thinks that this won't make much difference and is a long way in the future.

Curious as to what it actually was or is that lead to the current situation - knowing what it is can help lead to the solution.

From the HS
‘We need more prisons’: Pat, 76, woke with armed thugs inside her Brighton home
A brave Brighton grandmother has described the moment she confronted two knife-wielding men inside her loungeroom in the latest Bayside home invasion — and issued a plea for the state to get the crime crisis under control.

A 76 year old lady, come on guys. This farken beyond a joke now.

But nah, Jacinta says it's all good, nothing to see here Pat. Get back in your box.

Some punk tried to break into my mum's 2 hours ago.

He was spooked by the ring camera and was trying to cover his face and open the door at the same time. Mum was delayed in looking at her phone by about 5 minutes as she was asleep so he was long gone. Hopefully sometime soon he gets into the wrong house.

Worst part of speeding is, time it wrong amd you get a fine.  I got one recently cost 300 dollars for 54 in a 50 zone on a road that used to be 60.  Stationary 4wd, Saturday night 11.30pm on the way home.  No excuse, but I was on the way home from dinner and Bolton Street is the only stretch thats 50km from templestowe to Diamond Creek road.  Used to be 60km.  Less of this please.  Not helpful to anyone but the government purse.

Worst part of speeding is, time it wrong amd you get a fine.  I got one recently cost 300 dollars for 54 in a 50 zone on a road that used to be 60.  Stationary 4wd, Saturday night 11.30pm on the way home.  No excuse, but I was on the way home from dinner and Bolton Street is the only stretch thats 50km from templestowe to Diamond Creek road.  Used to be 60km.  Less of this please.  Not helpful to anyone but the government purse.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/divisive-melbournes-st-vincents-hospital-policy-fasttracks-indigenous-patients-over-others/news-story/78ce146e8162dff254342c529f653741

Appalling, divisive and racist policy. Hoping this is not true
 

Quote from: shawny – on October 30, 2025, 08:40:56 am

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/divisive-melbournes-st-vincents-hospital-policy-fasttracks-indigenous-patients-over-others/news-story/78ce146e8162dff254342c529f653741

Appalling, divisive and racist policy. Hoping this is not true
 

Yes, if true, a policy or triage stupidity. But I do muse to myself... Over how many decades were 'whites' prioritized over indigenous folks!

Another nothing burger "scoop". How shocking that a google search reveals this story shows up only in the Newscorpse press and other egregiously trashy tabloids.

The article gives a perfectly clear and reasonable explanation for the policy, but then you'd have to move beyond the rage bait headline and sensationalist wording and reporting of the article.

does that mean left leaning papers just dont consider it newsworthy?

Beware the echo chamber.

Quote from: Thryleon – on October 30, 2025, 11:29:19 am

does that mean left leaning papers just dont consider it newsworthy?

Beware the echo chamber.

Newscorpse has a very well understood and documented approach to "news." It's not really a left or right issue. To characterize news outlets as simply left or right is IMO a mischaracterization.

It’s also worth noting that Indigenous Australians make up less than 4% of the population.  Even if they are over-represented in public hospital presentations, triaging every Indigenous patient as Category 1 would have minimal impact on the quality and promptness of the care provided to non-Indigenous patients.

Quote from: DJC – on October 30, 2025, 03:25:19 pm

It’s also worth noting that Indigenous Australians make up less than 4% of the population.  Even if they are over-represented in public hospital presentations, triaging every Indigenous patient as Category 1 would have minimal impact on the quality and promptness of the care provided to non-Indigenous patients.

That's no excuse and not the point.

Quote from: shawny – on October 30, 2025, 04:32:30 pm

That's no excuse and not the point.

It’s not meant to be an excuse because good public policy doesn’t need to be excused.

It is the point though because hospitals have taken steps to address a failure to care for a small and vulnerable cohort without any negative impacts on the care provided to everyone else.

Don’t be sucked in by the righteous outrage of the Murdoch media.  Find the facts … it’s not that hard.

Quote from: shawny – on October 30, 2025, 04:32:30 pm

That's no excuse and not the point.

It’s not meant to be an excuse because good public policy doesn’t need to be excused.

It is the point though because hospitals have taken steps to address a failure to care for a small and vulnerable cohort without any negative impacts on the care provided to everyone else.

Don’t be sucked in by the righteous outrage of the Murdoch media.  Find the facts … it’s not that hard.

Quote from: shawny – on October 30, 2025, 04:32:30 pm

That's no excuse and not the point.

It’s not meant to be an excuse because good public policy doesn’t need to be excused.

https://nit.com.au/30-10-2025/21004/vaccho-condemns-race-baiting-over-melbourne-hospitals-indigenous-care-policy

The whole atricle is worth a read, but I highlight the following :



The organisation also noted that efforts to make emergency departments culturally safe began under Victoria's previous Liberal Government through the Koolin Balit strategy, the first to explicitly address racism in public hospitals.

"VACCHO applauded that Liberal Government when Koolin Balit was launched, and we remind the current Liberal Party that it was a legacy to be proud of," the spokesperson said, calling the Opposition's recent comments a "shameful betrayal of a legacy of bipartisanship"..............................

VACCHO's Executive Director of Population Health, Abe Ropitini, said targeted action to improve Aboriginal cultural safety in emergency departments began under the previous Liberal Government - a legacy "they should be proud of, because it was a serious commitment to Closing the Gap".

"It is disappointing they have traded in that legacy for race baiting and punching down on our most vulnerable people," Mr Ropitini said.

You shut down 7 different media platforms being Murdoch click bait rubbish 'in your eyes' then go on to quote from an indigenous media source on an indigenous favored policy?

I think thats its from me on this matter.

Really?

It is the point though because hospitals have taken steps to address a failure to care for a small and vulnerable cohort without any negative impacts on the care provided to everyone else.

Quote from: DJC – on October 30, 2025, 05:46:24 pm

It is the point though because hospitals have taken steps to address a failure to care for a small and vulnerable cohort without any negative impacts on the care provided to everyone else.

The only concern I have over this is the question of who is indigenous.

In my direct personal experience, I know of people claiming Federal benefits because the local mob declared them as members of the  mob, despite not have a drop of indigenous heritage. Then another segment of the same mob use access to those benefits as a form of blackmail, skimming "a donation" of the top in return for silence.

If we leave the classification of such matters to hearsay and opinion, the dark side of humanity will prevail, it has to be more formal.

Quote from: DJC – on October 30, 2025, 05:46:24 pm

It’s not meant to be an excuse because good public policy doesn’t need to be excused.

Do you really believe this - If Trump did a similar thing would you call it good policy. Don't bother answering that.

And btw racism is racism regardless of which skin colour is the one being discriminated against

Quote from: Baggers – on October 30, 2025, 10:11:22 am

Yes, if true, a policy or triage stupidity. But I do muse to myself... Over how many decades were 'whites' prioritized over indigenous folks!

two wrongs dont make a right Baggers.


"The triaging of patients should be done on medical need, not based on the colour of your skin,”

Direct quite from the article.  Short sharp and to the point. Category 3 patients are usually those who rock up with a broken leg.  Not urgent, in pain, so giving them priority over other cat 3, 4, 5 patients is not necessarily going to cause life threatening issues, but it will fast track them over folks who have been waiting.  Where this becomes problematic is when the sla for cat 4 and 5 patients is not being met. 

Also this doesnt close an equality gap it creates one.  The point of racism is to eliminate the difference not create gaps.

Quote from: shawny – on October 30, 2025, 06:56:33 pm

Do you really believe this - If Trump did a similar thing would you call it good policy. Don't bother answering that.

And btw racism is racism regardless of which skin colour is the one being discriminated against

I won't bother answering your Taco question because we have another thread dedicated to the shenanigans of the senile, misogynistic, convicted felon who is making such a balls up of his second go at playing at being POTUS.

Yes, racism isn't confined to folk of a particular skin colour, it's much more than that. 

"Racism is the process by which systems and policies, actions and attitudes create inequitable opportunities and outcomes for people based on race. Racism is more than just prejudice in thought or action. It occurs when this prejudice – whether individual or institutional – is accompanied by the power to discriminate against, oppress or limit the rights of others."

The key point there is that racism is prejudice by those with power over others, such as that exercised by the Chinese government against the Uyghurs and Tibetans.  Ensuring that an ethnic minority has equal access to health care is affirmative action, not racism.

Quote from: DJC – on October 30, 2025, 08:09:11 pm

I won't bother answering your Taco question because we have another thread dedicated to the shenanigans of the senile, misogynistic, convicted felon who is making such a balls up of his second go at playing at being POTUS.

Yes, racism isn't confined to folk of a particular skin colour, it's much more than that. 

"Racism is the process by which systems and policies, actions and attitudes create inequitable opportunities and outcomes for people based on race. Racism is more than just prejudice in thought or action. It occurs when this prejudice – whether individual or institutional – is accompanied by the power to discriminate against, oppress or limit the rights of others."

The key point there is that racism is prejudice by those with power over others, such as that exercised by the Chinese government against the Uyghurs and Tibetans.  Ensuring that an ethnic minority has equal access to health care is affirmative action, not racism.

this is not affirmative action.

If i walk in to this ED and an indigenous bloke walkS in, both with category 4 classification, EXACT SAME ISSUE, he goes first because he's indigenous even though I was triaged before him.  He gets upgraded to category 3.

Effectively they're fast tracked based on race.  Seems fair....

Quote from: DJC – on October 30, 2025, 08:09:11 pm

I won't bother answering your Taco question because we have another thread dedicated to the shenanigans of the senile, misogynistic, convicted felon who is making such a balls up of his second go at playing at being POTUS.

Yes, racism isn't confined to folk of a particular skin colour, it's much more than that. 

"Racism is the process by which systems and policies, actions and attitudes create inequitable opportunities and outcomes for people based on race. Racism is more than just prejudice in thought or action. It occurs when this prejudice – whether individual or institutional – is accompanied by the power to discriminate against, oppress or limit the rights of others."

The key point there is that racism is prejudice by those with power over others, such as that exercised by the Chinese government against the Uyghurs and Tibetans.  Ensuring that an ethnic minority has equal access to health care is affirmative action, not racism.

this is not affirmative action.

If i walk in to this ED and an indigenous bloke walkS in, both with category 4 classification, EXACT SAME ISSUE, he goes first because he's indigenous even though I was triaged before him.  He gets upgraded to category 3.

Effectively they're fast tracked based on race.  Seems fair....

Let's hear from St Vincents:

"Hi everyone, Many of you will be aware of media coverage over the last few days related to our Emergency Department (ED) and our efforts to deliver fairer health outcomes for First Nations patients. I wanted to share a brief message with you to explain what we’re doing and why. Across almost every indicator, First Nations Australians experience worse health outcomes than non-Indigenous Australians. Research conducted in St Vincent’s Melbourne’s ED showed First Nations patients were three times more likely to leave without being seen than non-Indigenous patients. First Nations patients were also waiting, on average, three times longer compared to non-Indigenous patients. But our research also showed that First Nations patients were more likely to remain engaged with their care if seen within their first hour in the ED. We’ve been working to address this issue for many years, but in April 2024, we took a new approach and implemented what’s known as a Minimum Category Three Triage policy. The idea is straightforward: in an ED, patients assigned as being ‘Category Three’ receive medical assessment and start their treatment within 30 minutes of arrival. Under our policy, we now assign a minimum Category 3 to all First Nations patients so that they begin their treatment promptly and to minimise the risk of disengagement and poorer health outcomes.

The results have been outstanding. Since introduction, we have successfully closed the gap in ED wait times between First Nations and non-Indigenous patients. While there is still much work to do, that is something to celebrate. Let me be very clear about what this approach does not do… It has not affected overall wait times in the ED. Analysis of our approach – which concerns only a small number of First Nations patients in the ED each day – shows it has had no impact on overall ED flow. Patients presenting with a serious or life-threatening emergency – regardless of their background – will always be seen first. That's what ED triage is designed to do. We can do both. We’ve arranged our resources and processes so that the small number of First Nations patients in our ED don’t have their care delayed for longer than 30 minutes, while also making sure that the most urgent cases are still seen as a priority. We've closed the gap between two groups without negatively affecting either. This is what good healthcare looks like. The St Vincent’s mission has always been about helping people who face barriers to accessing quality healthcare. That’s who we are. It’s what defines us. And it’s core to this approach. I’m proud of what we’ve been able to achieve. I’m proud of our Aboriginal Health Liaison Team, our Emergency Department team, and all our staff who continue to show leadership through initiatives like this. While there has been much said over the past few days, please know that we will continue to advocate for what is right and for evidence-based healthcare. And if you’ve found the last few days upsetting, please approach your manager, colleagues, or our EAP service should you need assistance.

Kind regards, Nicole"

Evidence-based healthcare that has closed the gap between two groups without negatively affecting either?  That's got to be grounds for racist outrage!

Quote from: Thryleon – on October 30, 2025, 09:33:53 pm

this is not affirmative action.

If i walk in to this ED and an indigenous bloke walkS in, both with category 4 classification, EXACT SAME ISSUE, he goes first because he's indigenous even though I was triaged before him.  He gets upgraded to category 3.

Effectively they're fast tracked based on race.  Seems fair....

Mate, they die younger, they live sicker lives.
Come up and visit me and you’ll see that 40-70% of the NT mob are wrapped in filthy bandages despite the medical professions best efforts.
We are not discussing intelligent well educated and articulate people like say Ernie Dingo here, we are discussing the downtrodden.
If you and he presented simultaneously you would both recieve the same treatment as (relatively) young fit healthy men, of this I have no doubt.
Certainly so here in the Territory.

Quote from: northernblue – on October 30, 2025, 10:59:24 pm

Mate, they die younger, they live sicker lives.
Come up and visit me and you’ll see that 40-70% of the NT mob are wrapped in filthy bandages despite the medical professions best efforts.
We are not discussing intelligent well educated and articulate people like say Ernie Dingo here, we are discussing the downtrodden.
If you and he presented simultaneously you would both recieve the same treatment as (relatively) young fit healthy men, of this I have no doubt.
Certainly so here in the Territory.

st Vincent's is not solely in the NT.

So are we saying they dont want to wait like the rest of us are forced to?

Quote from: Thryleon – on October 31, 2025, 11:10:19 am

st Vincent's is not solely in the NT.

So are we saying they dont want to wait like the rest of us are forced to?

Did you miss “First Nations patients were also waiting, on average, three times longer compared to non-Indigenous patients.”?

LP, you know that I worked in Indigenous affairs for over 30 years and that's not how the system works.  For a start, what "Federal benefits" would they be claiming?  With some exceptions, like Abstudy, Indigenous Australians access the same Centrelink payments as everyone else.  Skimming Centrelink payments wouldn't be a very lucrative form of blackmail.

In my experience, the mob is very quick to expose anyone who falsely claims to be Indigenous.  For example, see Michael Mansell's rejection of Bruce Pascoe's claim of Tasmanian Aboriginal ancestry: https://tasmaniantimes.com/2020/01/bruce-pascoe-is-not-aboriginal/

If St Vincent's were making indigenous wait 3 times longer because they're indigenous then they should be shut down.

You have one disadvantaged group whose health outcomes are improved because of this policy, and other advantaged groups whose health outcomes are the same as a result of this policy.

Quote from: northernblue – on October 30, 2025, 10:59:24 pm

Mate, they die younger, they live sicker lives.
Come up and visit me and you’ll see that 40-70% of the NT mob are wrapped in filthy bandages despite the medical professions best efforts.
We are not discussing intelligent well educated and articulate people like say Ernie Dingo here, we are discussing the downtrodden.
If you and he presented simultaneously you would both recieve the same treatment as (relatively) young fit healthy men, of this I have no doubt.
Certainly so here in the Territory.

st Vincent's is not solely in the NT.

So are we saying they dont want to wait like the rest of us are forced to?

Quote from: Thryleon – on October 31, 2025, 11:10:19 am

st Vincent's is not solely in the NT.

So are we saying they dont want to wait like the rest of us are forced to?

st V isn’t in the nt.
What I’m saying is that if a white one and a black one present with the same problem the black one is more likely to die, statistically.

Quote from: DJC – on October 31, 2025, 11:44:20 am

Did you miss “First Nations patients were also waiting, on average, three times longer compared to non-Indigenous patients.”?

I didnt miss this claim.  In fact there is no way to substantiate that and its precisely what someone defending this move would say irrespective of whether or not its fair.

Thing is, why is that the case?  Why are they waiting longer?  Is it because the data is skewed by hospitals in areas where there is more indigenous people being treated than not? 

More questions than answers out of the claim.  So by doing this in metro hospitals they treat the minority as priority to paper over not enough health care institutions in remote communities where the majority of indigenous patients presents skewing the data?

Is that the right outcome? Or more manipulation of the books to satisfy criteria?

Ultimately i dont know how anyone can defend a policy where an ethnic group is treated differently to others for right or wrong reasons. Sounds like they cant be bothered fixing the real reasons the issue exists and are papering over the cracks to me.

Quote from: Thryleon – on October 31, 2025, 12:12:47 pm

I didnt miss this claim.  In fact there is no way to substantiate that and its precisely what someone defending this move would say irrespective of whether or not its fair.

Thing is, why is that the case?  Why are they waiting longer?  Is it because the data is skewed by hospitals in areas where there is more indigenous people being treated than not? 

More questions than answers out of the claim.  So by doing this in metro hospitals they treat the minority as priority to paper over not enough health care institutions in remote communities where the majority of indigenous patients presents skewing the data?

Is that the right outcome? Or more manipulation of the books to satisfy criteria?

Ultimately i dont know how anyone can defend a policy where an ethnic group is treated differently to others for right or wrong reasons. Sounds like they cant be bothered fixing the real reasons the issue exists and are papering over the cracks to me.

No way to substantiate it?  Hospitals record whether patients are Indigenous and they record how long it takes for patients to be seen.  That's part of their reporting against performance indicators and closing the gap measures.  You can read all about the disparity in health care on the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare website.  For example:

"Between July 2019 and June 2021, the proportion of hospitalisations for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander (First Nations) people that had a procedure recorded was 12 percentage points lower than for non-Indigenous Australians, based on age-standardised percentages (66% compared with 78%)."

Then there's the Australian Commission on Safety and Quality in Health Care:

"The Board of St Vincent’s Hospital in inner Sydney monitors a number of indicators of quality of care for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, including rates of incomplete treatment in the Emergency Department (ED). Incomplete treatment includes patients who leave the ED before the medical team recommends discharge, those who are not present when called to be seen by a doctor and those who attended ED and did not wait to complete treatment - collectively known as leave events.

Incomplete treatment is associated with an increased risk of readmission and death.1 The NSW Ministry of Health has identified the high rate of incomplete treatment in EDs among Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander patients compared to other patients (8.6% and 6.1%, respectively, nationally, 2019)2 as a priority issue.

The hospital Board requested that the ED department work to reduce the rate of incomplete treatment among Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander patients."

Hospitals and agencies charged with monitoring health care outcomes don't make figures up.  They report actual data.

You're right to some extent about data skewing "with First Nations males and females living in Major cities expected to live around 5 years longer than those living in Remote and very remote areas".  However, St Vincents and other hospitals are working off their own patient data and remote hospitalisations and outcomes don't come into it . 

And your assumption that the majority of Indigenous patients present for treatment in remote communities is incorrect.  NSW has the highest Indigenous population with 339,500.  Victoria is just ahead of the NT with 78,600 people to 76,700 and no communities in Victoria are considered to be remote. 

Yes, it would be good to know why Indigenous patients at St Vincents and other hospitals have longer wait times and higher rates of incomplete treatment.  More importantly, it's good that these issues have been identified and are being addressed.

I'll say this, I used to see a liver specialist at a public hospital here in Melbourne. Check is via swiping your Medicare card at a console where you get a ticket with a number. The wait at the specialist clinics there is normally horrendous. On one occasion, in my haste, I accidentally clicked yes to the Aboriginal and Torres Straight Islander question. I can tell you on that occasion my wait was minuscule, I virtually got called in straight away. Coincidence? Perhaps.

I suppose the fundamental problem with the Liberals even at a state level is that they are percieved as a coalition not a party, and that is because they behave like a coalition and not a party, they do not exhibit unity. And the people being offered as alternatives to the right might not be as pure as the general public is lead to believe.

There is quite a bit of irony for the anti-soclialist and anti-union LIberals to be torn apart by obvious factions even if they refuse to call them factions.

Jess Wilson is an attempt from the Libs to change course and try and appeal to younger voters and female voters.
Be interested if rusted on older Lib voters buy what she is selling given she is a more moderate Liberal and has some personal views that are not aligned with normal liberal policy offerings.

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on November 18, 2025, 06:34:00 pm

Jess Wilson is an attempt from the Libs to change course and try and appeal to younger voters and female voters.
Be interested if rusted on older Lib voters buy what she is selling given she is a more moderate Liberal and has some personal views that are not aligned with normal liberal policy offerings.

That's going to be her big challenge EB.

Jess Wilson had a good first day and I think that she could drag the Liberals out of the quagmire, if given the freedom to do so.  I think that she will appeal to younger voters and female voters and they've both been the Libs' Achille's heels over the last quarter of a century.  It's those crusty, old, misogynistic Libs that will act as a sheet anchor, or worse, and will fight to stop the party regaining the centre ground.

I'm not sure how those grouping tanslate to Victorian politics.

Jacinta tells us the state is safe and our bail laws are the toughest in the country.

Yet an 11 year old stabs a 8 year old and police have confirmed no charges will
be laid as he is under the age of criminal conviction. He wore a balaclava had a fake gun and proceeded to stab a grade one child and a teacher. Did an adult crime so why allow him off scott free- Htf is this kid going to learn? Can you imagine in 5 years time what he will do. Juvenile detention is a min for this kid yet cant be charged.

Meanwhile at coles in Laurimar Machettes gang members terrorise innocent citizens going about their daily business - 2 of these criminals were charged yet unbelievably were yet again released on bail!! Can you fking believe it - nothing changes.

WTF has happened to our state - its out of control and regardless of which side of the political fence you sit on something needs to change and change fast.

The Laws and sentencing need major overhaulling yet nothing will happen as those running the state deny there is any issue.

Sad sad state of affairs

Quote from: shawny – on November 29, 2025, 11:49:57 pm

Jacinta tells us the state is safe and our bail laws are the toughest in the country.

Yet an 11 year old stabs a 8 year old and police have confirmed no charges will
be laid as he is under the age of criminal conviction. He wore a balaclava had a fake gun and proceeded to stab a grade one child and a teacher. Did an adult crime so why allow him off scott free- Htf is this kid going to learn? Can you imagine in 5 years time what he will do. Juvenile detention is a min for this kid yet cant be charged.

Meanwhile at coles in Laurimar Machettes gang members terrorise innocent citizens going about their daily business - 2 of these criminals were charged yet unbelievably were yet again released on bail!! Can you fking believe it - nothing changes.

WTF has happened to our state - its out of control and regardless of which side of the political fence you sit on something needs to change and change fast.

The Laws and sentencing need major overhaulling yet nothing will happen as those running the state deny there is any issue.

Sad sad state of affairs

Are you near laurimar shawny?
I know a lot of residents are losing their crap over this and it appears people are very close to pitchforks and torches.

https://theconversation.com/is-australia-becoming-a-more-violent-country-260102

In this case i don't care what media report or our head in the sand leader telling us everytime another stabbing is reported that the state is safe and great but as i was born with eyes and ears in this case I will trust what i see first hand and how bad things have rather then believe a left leaning publication that happens to be 4 months old. If you like i can send you 100s of links of articles saying the complete opposite but i know you will say its 'Fake news' being from the other direction.

Talk to those who live in the west or those that go out into the city after dark or talk to emergency service workers who are on the front line and ask them. There is no denying it - the wheel has turned to a point where Vics are leaving in droves to get out.  

Maybe all these crimes occuring there used to occur in a different area that has cleaned up its act, essentially handballing the problem further down the field in a game of hot potato

@Paul, i think the issue is what Shawny is seeing locally and in the news and comparing that to the same area previously.
On that front he is right. The area is getting worse.
Whether that translates to victoria wide, not sure. Maybe all these crimes occuring there used to occur in a different area that has cleaned up its act, essentially handballing the problem further down the field in a game of hot potato

Quote from: kruddler – on November 30, 2025, 03:42:27 pm

@Paul, i think the issue is what Shawny is seeing locally and in the news and comparing that to the same area previously.
On that front he is right. The area is getting worse.
Whether that translates to victoria wide, not sure. Maybe all these crimes occuring there used to occur in a different area that has cleaned up its act, essentially handballing the problem further down the field in a game of hot potato

I'm not denying these incidents occurred - plainly they have. What I take issue with is the framing and reporting of such incidents, the lack of detail and context, the fact that outside of outlets like The Conversation and similar, expert opinion is rarely sought. Once the level of fear mongering reaches a fever pitch, which in the current climate does not take long, government policy and resources is forced to prioritize, and therefore needs to be seen to be taking action. In a space where resources are limited, this means other areas miss out. As I mentioned earlier, violent crime rates have been in decline for 20 or so years, except very significantly in the area of domestic violence, where the rates have been regrettably stable over the same period. Yet you won't read about that nearly as much because it doesn't grab the public's attention in the same way as black kids with machetes.

I'm safely assuming we can all agree that there has never been and never will be a zero crime rate, anywhere on earth, which means we must all accept some level of crime. The issue then becomes one of perceptions and personal boundaries : is there is difference between "feeling" safe and "being" safe ? What crime rate would constitute the government having crime "under control" and conversely at what point is crime "out of control" ? Etc.

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/australia-set-for-world-first-cervical-cancer-elim

There’s a few reports around that Australia is on track to eliminate cervical cancer by 2035. Hopefully we can achieve this target. 2021 was a particularly good year, with zero cases diagnosed. It’s one of the most common cancers in women, so a super effort from all concerned.

The linked article is a bit of a plug for GP’s, but it does contain the important facts.

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/australia-set-for-world-first-cervical-cancer-elim

There’s a few reports around that Australia is on track to eliminate cervical cancer by 2035. Hopefully we can achieve this target. 2021 was a particularly good year, with zero cases diagnosed. It’s one of the most common cancers in women, so a super effort from all concerned.

The linked article is a bit of a plug for GP’s, but it does contain the important facts.

This in how unsafe Victoria has become: 
For the year ending June 2025, according to the Crime Statistics Agency(https://www.crimestatistics.vic.gov.au/) , there were:

18,482 serious assaults - a 16 per cent increase
7,856 residential aggravated burglaries - a 22 per cent increase
3,828 robberies - a 17 per cent increase
33,018 motor vehicle theft - a 42 per cent increase
86,351 steal from a motor vehicle - a 39 per cent increase
41,667 steal from a retail store - a 28 per cent increase
11,075 prohibited and controlled weapon offences - a 12 per cent increase.
9,663 family violence related serious assaults - a 23% per cent increase.

You add in all the graffiti, unoccupied run down buildings full of squatters, needles everywhere you walk, increases in ambulance staff and nurses getting attacked on the job, drones landing in family members backyards with white packs of powder on board, kids getting murdered on the way home from a basketball game.
The you have the Victorian Government actually cutting funding for Youth Crime Prevention programs and the Youth Support and Advocacy Service (YSAS).
Debt in Victoria continues to grow faster than both the economy and revenue, with government sector gross debt nearing 30 per cent of the state’s economy. Credit rating has gone backwards and the auditor-general said gross debt was forecast to grow to $240 billion by 2028-29, about 202 per cent of operating revenue.
Crime is on the rise and so is the expenditure for victims of crime...Liabilities from redress schemes, and financial assistance for victims of crime grew from $30 million five years ago to $853 million.
Anyone living in Victoria should be concerned where the State is heading....future is bleak and the Crims are winning with the amount of unsolved crimes also increasing.

This in how unsafe Victoria has become: 
For the year ending June 2025, according to the Crime Statistics Agency(https://www.crimestatistics.vic.gov.au/) , there were:

18,482 serious assaults - a 16 per cent increase
7,856 residential aggravated burglaries - a 22 per cent increase
3,828 robberies - a 17 per cent increase
33,018 motor vehicle theft - a 42 per cent increase
86,351 steal from a motor vehicle - a 39 per cent increase
41,667 steal from a retail store - a 28 per cent increase
11,075 prohibited and controlled weapon offences - a 12 per cent increase.
9,663 family violence related serious assaults - a 23% per cent increase.

You add in all the graffiti, unoccupied run down buildings full of squatters, needles everywhere you walk, increases in ambulance staff and nurses getting attacked on the job, drones landing in family members backyards with white packs of powder on board, kids getting murdered on the way home from a basketball game.
The you have the Victorian Government actually cutting funding for Youth Crime Prevention programs and the Youth Support and Advocacy Service (YSAS).
Debt in Victoria continues to grow faster than both the economy and revenue, with government sector gross debt nearing 30 per cent of the state’s economy. Credit rating has gone backwards and the auditor-general said gross debt was forecast to grow to $240 billion by 2028-29, about 202 per cent of operating revenue.
Crime is on the rise and so is the expenditure for victims of crime...Liabilities from redress schemes, and financial assistance for victims of crime grew from $30 million five years ago to $853 million.
Anyone living in Victoria should be concerned where the State is heading....future is bleak and the Crims are winning with the amount of unsolved crimes also increasing.

I'm safely assuming we can all agree that there has never been and never will be a zero crime rate, anywhere on earth, which means we must all accept some level of crime. The issue then becomes one of perceptions and personal boundaries : is there is difference between "feeling" safe and "being" safe ? What crime rate would constitute the government having crime "under control" and conversely at what point is crime "out of control" ? Etc.

Once again the inevitable happens thanks to our weak as piss namby pamby in denial governments. When asked a pointed question by a report last night, Albo fill his shorts. Pathetic.

Quote from: Gointocarlton – on December 15, 2025, 11:36:11 am

Once again the inevitable happens thanks to our weak as piss namby pamby in denial governments. When asked a pointed question by a report last night, Albo fill his shorts. Pathetic.

I havent been following.  Whats happened now?

Was it in relation to the Bondi thing?

I think we need to treat those situations a little differently.  Activism, violence, and potential co-ordination between extremists groups.  Hard to pin this on a local government for anything here.

Quote from: Thryleon – on December 15, 2025, 01:59:11 pm

I havent been following.  Whats happened now?

Was it in relation to the Bondi thing?

I think we need to treat those situations a little differently.  Activism, violence, and potential co-ordination between extremists groups.  Hard to pin this on a local government for anything here.

Governments have been pandering to protesters/activists and allowing a underlying anti semitic tone to develop in the community.
States and the Federal Government have been weak in cracking down on this political unrest between these opposing factions, its got nothing to do with Australian Politics and those pursuing their agendas through terrorism need dealing with more severely and made an example of to deter future attacks. Albanese needs to stop making policy to get re-elected and start protecting the community and make the country secure from these nutcase radicals bringing their politics and problems to Australia.

Quote from: Thryleon – on December 15, 2025, 01:59:11 pm

I havent been following.  Whats happened now?

Was it in relation to the Bondi thing?

I think we need to treat those situations a little differently.  Activism, violence, and potential co-ordination between extremists groups.  Hard to pin this on a local government for anything here.

Governments have been pandering to protesters/activists and allowing a underlying anti semitic tone to develop in the community.
States and the Federal Government have been weak in cracking down on this political unrest between these opposing factions, its got nothing to do with Australian Politics and those pursuing their agendas through terrorism need dealing with more severely and made an example of to deter future attacks. Albanese needs to stop making policy to get re-elected and start protecting the community and make the country secure from these nutcase radicals bringing their politics and problems to Australia.

Gun laws might need a tweak, but it is the enforcing that appears to be lacking. If laws get ignored or not followed because it is too hard, then things like this will happen.

Gun laws might need a tweak, but it is the enforcing that appears to be lacking. If laws get ignored or not followed because it is too hard, then things like this will happen.

The Bondi massacre appears to be Islamist terrorism ... and the hero who disarmed one of the terrorists is Muslim.

You have to wonder at the warped thinking that enables a father and son to commit such an atrocity.

The pain is palpable, but the conclusions are all wrong, I understand they want to blame someone, the person firing the gun is the best place to start.

Further laws, further words, won't stop what is happening, the solution lies beyond Australia's border. You cannot escape a religious war by crossing a border, it goes where you go, you have to solve the problem at it's genesis.

I will just add this, thankfully the animals on Sunday didn't have semi automatic rifles or automatic assault rifles as the carnage would have been horrific (double or triple the toll). One shooter however appeared to have a pump action shotgun of sorts and these need to be made illegal immediately as the Howard ban intended after Port Arthur. Automatic shotguns have popped back into circulation (legally obtained) with a special condition licence. I have always been against this as in my opinion, there is no need for them whatsover. Break open over/under or side by side shot guns (2 cartridges max) should be all that is legal along with bolt action rifles for registered hunters and target shooters, nothing else.
Over and above this, without going into a racist type commentary, the authorities need to revamp who holds a firearm licence. Currently, If you have a mental illness and are taking medication, you cannot hold a licence for obvious reasons. The authorities need to extend this by tracking down all the members of known terrorist organisations and remove their licences (perhaps before deporting them altogether). As for people who visit and frequent known terrorist training camps and hot spots like in the Philippines for example, those people cannot hold a firearms licence IMO. Extreme measures and strategic tactics are needed to combat this.

It's people, not governments, that allow terrorists to strike.

Quote from: LP – on December 16, 2025, 12:08:47 pm

The pain is palpable, but the conclusions are all wrong, I understand they want to blame someone, the person firing the gun is the best place to start.

Further laws, further words, won't stop what is happening, the solution lies beyond Australia's border. You cannot escape a religious war by crossing a border, it goes where you go, you have to solve the problem at it's genesis.

The footage I saw shows the rock throwing man pick up the discard shotgun, aim it the terrorist then put it down again before being shot.  It's not clear whether he was shot while aiming the shotgun.  Not everyone is capable of shooting at another human being and the rock throwing man may not have known how to fire the shotgun.  Either way, he was another hero and his daughter's words are powerful, but wrong.  Governments can only do so much to minimise terrorist attacks and it seems pretty clear that the perpetrators were radicalised long ago and not by those protesting against Israel's genocide in Palestine.  In the words of Tom Waits:

"So thousands dead and wounded on both
Sides most of them middle eastern civilians
They fill their children full of hate to fight an old man's war
And die upon the road to peace"

It's people, not governments, that allow terrorists to strike.

Governments doing "only so much" and SFA are two different things. They are reaping what they have sewn.

So what should they do?

The widespread calls for action are meaningless, bordering on dog whistling, when they are delivered without offers of a genuine solution.

Of course, when challenged the old "What can I do" response is specifically part of the problem!

It's clear to me, the loudest calls coming from the likes of Netanyahu and RedTrump is disingenuous, they profit from this violence, they do not want it to stop, they captain very highly profitable war machines.

I'll finish today with this, there is significant irony in the media commentators claiming the political dialogue has become too dangerous, too vindictive, many might not understand that irony, they are the medium, they are the editors and producers. They will profit heavily as well.

Dunno whether to laugh or cry, AFP boss says the Bondi shootings were "not religious". Um, 15 people were murdered because they were Jewish. If that's not religiously motivated I don't know WTF is. She needs to be relieved of her duties immediately.

Robert Pape has done significant work in the related and adjacent space of suicide attacks and terrorism. His book Dying To Win contains original research and is now a landmark study in the field. It may surprise some that most people who carry out such attacks are not motivated by religion. As Pape shows, their scriptural literacy and interest in religion is low. Many of the attackers are secular. What motivates them more than anything is foreign powers doing s h i t t y things to their people and on their land, removing any possibility of self determination and removing any chance of building a life of some meaning and purpose.

Material conditions always take precedence over theological principles and considerations.

Dunno whether to laugh or cry, AFP boss says the Bondi shootings were "not religious". Um, 15 people were murdered because they were Jewish. If that's not religiously motivated I don't know WTF is. She needs to be relieved of her duties immediately.

Quote from: Gointocarlton – on December 19, 2025, 09:58:00 am

Dunno whether to laugh or cry, AFP boss says the Bondi shootings were "not religious". Um, 15 people were murdered because they were Jewish. If that's not religiously motivated I don't know WTF is. She needs to be relieved of her duties immediately.

Paul recently posted:

Quote from: PaulP – on December 16, 2025, 12:55:08 pm

Robert Pape has done significant work in the related and adjacent space of suicide attacks and terrorism. His book Dying To Win contains original research and is now a landmark study in the field. It may surprise some that most people who carry out such attacks are not motivated by religion. As Pape shows, their scriptural literacy and interest in religion is low. Many of the attackers are secular. What motivates them more than anything is foreign powers doing s h i t t y things to their people and on their land, removing any possibility of self determination and removing any chance of building a life of some meaning and purpose.

Material conditions always take precedence over theological principles and considerations.

Many other researchers have drawn the same conclusions as Pape, almost all terrorists, and particularly lone wolf terrorists, are motivated by the real and/or perceived repression of those they identify with.  The slaughter of 70,000 Palestinians since October 2023 is the likely motivation with the victims representing Netanyahu's IDF.  Krissy Barrett is correct, the Bondi terrorist attack wasn't religious even if the intended and actual victims were Jewish.

And the October 7 slaughter of Jews by Palestinians? Let me guess, they didnt like the music at the Music Festival?

And the October 7 slaughter of Jews by Palestinians? Let me guess, they didnt like the music at the Music Festival?

Since that terrible, unforgiveable slaughter by Hamas terrorists, the IDF has killed 70,000 Palestinians and thousands of children are starving and being denied basic human rights like education and healthcare.  Is that being done on religious grounds or is it just acceptable collateral damage on the way to more land for Israeli settlers or Taco's 'Riviera of the Middle East'?

What pisses me off about our Government is that they won't push back against the corrupt war criminal Netanyahu, who is more responsible for the anti-Zionism that's sweeping the world than anyone else.

Quote from: Gointocarlton – on December 19, 2025, 12:18:19 pm

And the October 7 slaughter of Jews by Palestinians? Let me guess, they didnt like the music at the Music Festival?

Since that terrible, unforgiveable slaughter by Hamas terrorists, the IDF has killed 70,000 Palestinians and thousands of children are starving and being denied basic human rights like education and healthcare.  Is that being done on religious grounds or is it just acceptable collateral damage on the way to more land for Israeli settlers or Taco's 'Riviera of the Middle East'?

What pisses me off about our Government is that they won't push back against the corrupt war criminal Netanyahu, who is more responsible for the anti-Zionism that's sweeping the world than anyone else.

Netanyahu is within rights to steam roll palestine and solve that problem once and for all,

Quote from: Thryleon – on December 20, 2025, 10:02:23 am

Netanyahu is within rights to steam roll palestine and solve that problem once and for all,

Surely nobody, neither side in this dispute and nobody in any dispute, has the right to target facilities or take actions that cause the collateral death of children and infants, either directly or indirectly.

Target military, terrorists and gorillas all you like, but stay away from civilians and children.

its war.

In war there are winners and losers.

The bottom line is that the International Criminal Court (ICC) issued arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Yoav Gallant, the former Minister of Defense of Israel, alleging responsibility for the war crime of starvation as a method of warfare and the crimes against humanity of murder, persecution, and other inhumane acts during the Gaza war.  Even in war there are lines that aren't crossed by civilised countries or their leaders. 

A subsequent UN Commission of Inquiry called for genocide charges to be added to the warrant after finding the Israeli government guilty of multiple violations of the 1948 Genocide Convention.

The ICC also issued an arrest warrant for Hamas military commander Mohammed Deif but it was later learned that he had been killed in an Israeli airstrike.

Just as all Jews aren't Zionists or Israelis, very few Palestinians are Hamas.  Israel's Palestinian genocide is a disproportionate response to Hamas terrorism.

Gutless bullies, not matter which side of the fence they dwell on, always go after the weakest target.

Not saying it isnt, and whilst we like to place rules on this, where were these rules when Islamic militants abducted innocent party goers at a music festival?

Quote from: LP – on December 21, 2025, 11:22:07 am

Gutless bullies, not matter which side of the fence they dwell on, always go after the weakest target.

Well said, Spotted One.

No matter our chosen political or religious view when defenseless, innocent folks attempting to go about their daily lives are slaughtered, starved or persecuted, we're simply witnessing profane cowardice.

Gutless bullies, not matter which side of the fence they dwell on, always go after the weakest target.

Quote from: DJC – on December 21, 2025, 12:31:06 pm

The bottom line is that the International Criminal Court (ICC) issued arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Yoav Gallant, the former Minister of Defense of Israel, alleging responsibility for the war crime of starvation as a method of warfare and the crimes against humanity of murder, persecution, and other inhumane acts during the Gaza war.  Even in war there are lines that aren't crossed by civilised countries or their leaders. 

A subsequent UN Commission of Inquiry called for genocide charges to be added to the warrant after finding the Israeli government guilty of multiple violations of the 1948 Genocide Convention.

The ICC also issued an arrest warrant for Hamas military commander Mohammed Deif but it was later learned that he had been killed in an Israeli airstrike.

Just as all Jews aren't Zionists or Israelis, very few Palestinians are Hamas.  Israel's Palestinian genocide is a disproportionate response to Hamas terrorism.

That's no excuse to bring their wars to Australia.Last time I checked Bondi beach wasnt connected to the Gaza strip.
Same with these pro Palestinian demonstrations where Australian Flags are burnt and ISIS flags are flown, it's got nothing to do with Australia and we are not a battleground for religious holy wars.
Albanese by his own admission hasn't done enough, sat on his Envoys report for 5 months and now we are having to look over our shoulder every time we shop at Westfield or Myer during the Christmas period. NSW police now want Rifles so they have more firepower...too little , too late from Albo and now our once safe country is  a war zone.

Not saying it isnt, and whilst we like to place rules on this, where were these rules when Islamic militants abducted innocent party goers at a music festival?

This isnt sports.  With a referee that can adjudicate, and when the Palestinians hide their militants in the gen pop and under hospitals then what is expected?

I know there are rules of conduct and what not, but whos rules are they?   History is always written by the victor.

Quote from: Thryleon – on December 21, 2025, 12:46:28 pm

Not saying it isnt, and whilst we like to place rules on this, where were these rules when Islamic militants abducted innocent party goers at a music festival?

This isnt sports.  With a referee that can adjudicate, and when the Palestinians hide their militants in the gen pop and under hospitals then what is expected?

I know there are rules of conduct and what not, but whos rules are they?   History is always written by the victor.

That's the thing though Thry, the terrorists who attacked innocent Israelis aren't professional soldiers, don't wear a uniform, don't answer to a government and aren't bound by the rules that govern conflicts between nations.  If they are apprehended, they are charged with terrorism offences (although the ICC did charge the now dead head of Hamas with war crimes).  When I was a member of the ADF, I was taught the provisions of the Geneva and Hague Conventions and regularly reminded to comply with them at all times.  Of course, professional soldiers may find it hard to adhere to the rules when the enemy doesn't, as we saw in Afghanistan.

Israel is a party to all four Geneva Conventions of 1949 and is legally bound by their rules ... and they're the first to bleat if any IDF personnel are not treated in accordance with the conventions.

Again, you're falling into the trap of assuming that the militants represent all Palestinians and all Palestinians are militants.  The vast majority of Palestinians just want the Israelis and Hamas to leave them alone and they are not hiding "their militants" anywhere.

The 7 October attacks killed 1,195 people, 815 of whom were Israeli civilians.  In addition, around 250 people were taken hostage and many of them haven't survived.  The Israeli offensive that followed has killed 70,925 Palestinians, foreign aid workers and reporters and another 171,185 have been wounded.  Around 1,200 IDF personnel have been killed since 7 October, on all fronts.  Since the "ceasefire", 379 Palestinians, including 70 children, have been killed and three IDF soldiers have died.  Those figures aren't surprising when you have one of the largest, most ruthless and well-equipped military forces waging war on unarmed civilians and defenceless children.

Hamas was estimated to have between 20-40,000 fighters of varying capacity and access to weapons in October 2023.  The IDF claims to have killed around 17,000 to 23,000 militants (that's around one third of Palestinian casualties) since then.  Of course, the ongoing persecution of Palestinians is likely to radicalise more fighters but there's a finite number. 

The ICC is the referee that adjudicates war crimes.

I'm not a fan of protests generally and I don't think the pro-Palestinian rallies will change anyone's mind, or government policies.  However, as Judith Treanor, a Jewish small business owner, points out,

"Those advocating for restrictions on pro-Palestinian protests must acknowledge the diversity of Jewish perspectives. Many Jews, including members of anti-Zionist groups like Jews Against the Occupation '48, Tzedek Collective, and the Loud Jew Collective, actively participate in these weekly rallies, standing in solidarity with Palestinians suffering atrocities in Gaza and the West Bank.

Globally, anti-Zionist Jewish groups echo this support. In the U.S., Jewish Voice for Peace and lfNotNow have organised mass protests. Orthodox groups like Torah Jews for Justice have taken clear anti-Zionist stances. In London, the UJewish Bloc" within pro-Palestine rallies numbers in the hundreds, including Holocaust survivors. Na'amod, a contributing group, emphasises that uonly when Palestinians live in freedom and dignity will Israel have security.

These groups, like ours, reject the notion that Zionism represents all Jews. The atrocities committed by Israel are not done in ourtives. Many Jews, including members of anti-Zionist groups like Jews Against the Occupation '48, Tzedek Collective, and the Loud Jew Collective, actively participate in these weekly rallies, standing in solidarity with Palestinians suffering atrocities in Gaza and the West Bank.

Globally, anti-Zionist Jewish groups echo this support. In the U.S., Jewish Voice for Peace and lfNotNow have organised mass protests. Orthodox groups like Torah Jews for Justice have taken clear anti-Zionist stances. In London, the UJewish Bloc" within pro-Palestine rallies numbers in the hundreds, including Holocaust survivors. Na'amod, a contributing group, emphasises that uonly when Palestinians live in freedom and dignity will Israel have security.

These groups, like ours, reject the notion that Zionism represents all Jews. The atrocities committed by Israel are not done in our name."

You can read Judith's letter here: chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/lcdocs/other/21804/Judith%20Treanor,%20Pearls%20and%20Irritations,%2029%20January%202025.pdf

An exercise in hypocrisy!

Josh Frydenberg, ever the opportunist, is criticising the Government's position on hate speech but he strongly advocated weakening existing hate speech legislation when he was an MP.

Sussan Ley is embarrassing with some of her appearances in recent days.
 ::)

Quote from: Lods – on December 23, 2025, 01:34:49 pm

Sussan Ley is embarrassing with some of her appearances in recent days.
 ::)

Not as embarrassing as Albanese, Wong and Burke. The only polly with any credibility has been Chris Minns from NSW imo.
Minns has been prepared to break ALP ranks and call for a Royal Commission along with the Federal Opposition and has been able to negotiate support from NSW opposition leader Kellie Sloane for security and gun control reforms. Albanese and crew have been too busy avoiding responsibility and are more interested in deflecting criticism, accountability and trying to shore up votes by making token disingenuous appearances which have been met with the appropriate response from the Jewish community who can see through them like a sheet of ultra clear glass.

Morrison was PM when an Australian nazi terrorist shot and killed 51 Muslim worshippers in New Zealand.  Abbott was PM when a Muslim terrorist took hostages in the Lindt Cafe, two of whom subsequently died from gunshot wounds.  Howard was PM when an Australian shot and killed 35 tourists at Port Arthur.

The common thread is that the Opposition adopted a bi-partisan approach and supported the Government's responses in each case.

You would expect the One Nation nutters to try to capitalise on any event but the politicisation of the Bondi tragedy by the Coalition is disgraceful.

The hysterical calls for a Royal Commission are probably understandable but should be ignored by good government.  If there were flaws in the work of ASIO, AFP and/or NSW Police, they need to be identified and rectified immediately, not after a Royal Commission has spent 18 months or more examining the terrorist attack from a legal perspective.

Quote from: DJC – on December 23, 2025, 05:15:44 pm

Morrison was PM when an Australian nazi terrorist shot and killed 51 Muslim worshippers in New Zealand.  Abbott was PM when a Muslim terrorist took hostages in the Lindt Cafe, two of whom subsequently died from gunshot wounds.  Howard was PM when an Australian shot and killed 35 tourists at Port Arthur.

The common thread is that the Opposition adopted a bi-partisan approach and supported the Government's responses in each case.

You would expect the One Nation nutters to try to capitalise on any event but the politicisation of the Bondi tragedy by the Coalition is disgraceful.

The hysterical calls for a Royal Commission are probably understandable but should be ignored by good government.  If there were flaws in the work of ASIO, AFP and/or NSW Police, they need to be identified and rectified immediately, not after a Royal Commission has spent 18 months or more examining the terrorist attack from a legal perspective.

I would never in a million years blame Howard or Tony Rundle for Port Arthur. Seems like a flimsy logic and a poor argument.

It really has nothing to do with blame Paul.  It is the actions of the Opposition that is under scrutiny here.  Howard, Abbott and Morrison enjoyed bipartisan support for their responses, as they should.  

Quote from: DJC – on December 23, 2025, 05:15:44 pm

Morrison was PM when an Australian nazi terrorist shot and killed 51 Muslim worshippers in New Zealand.  Abbott was PM when a Muslim terrorist took hostages in the Lindt Cafe, two of whom subsequently died from gunshot wounds.  Howard was PM when an Australian shot and killed 35 tourists at Port Arthur.

The common thread is that the Opposition adopted a bi-partisan approach and supported the Government's responses in each case.

You would expect the One Nation nutters to try to capitalise on any event but the politicisation of the Bondi tragedy by the Coalition is disgraceful.

The hysterical calls for a Royal Commission are probably understandable but should be ignored by good government.  If there were flaws in the work of ASIO, AFP and/or NSW Police, they need to be identified and rectified immediately, not after a Royal Commission has spent 18 months or more examining the terrorist attack from a legal perspective.

I would never in a million years blame Howard or Tony Rundle for Port Arthur. Seems like a flimsy logic and a poor argument.

It is embarrassing that so-called leaders apportion blame to the incumbent PM.

Holy mackerel this is a problem that goes back decades and centuries, FFS. Need I say that the shallowness and opportunism of some is breathtaking... and vulgar. (and Baggers steps down from his soapbox).

Quote from: PaulP – on December 23, 2025, 05:45:37 pm

I would never in a million years blame Howard or Tony Rundle for Port Arthur. Seems like a flimsy logic and a poor argument.

It is embarrassing that so-called leaders apportion blame to the incumbent PM.

Holy mackerel this is a problem that goes back decades and centuries, FFS. Need I say that the shallowness and opportunism of some is breathtaking... and vulgar. (and Baggers steps down from his soapbox).

Quote from: Baggers – on December 23, 2025, 07:53:26 pm

It is embarrassing that so-called leaders apportion blame to the incumbent PM.

Holy mackerel this is a problem that goes back decades and centuries, FFS. Need I say that the shallowness and opportunism of some is breathtaking... and vulgar. (and Baggers steps down from his soapbox).

Wny Baggers? Is it not the Government's and its Authorities/Agencies job to keep Australians safe? As you say, this isn't a new problem that came about last week and many jewish members of the public have been saying this would  happen and it has (on the current PM's watch). If I was being sceptical, I'd suggest that the law enforcement and intelligence agencies appear to pick and choose went to use intel to foil crimes.

Quote from: Gointocarlton – on December 23, 2025, 11:23:19 pm

Wny Baggers? Is it not the Government's and its Authorities/Agencies job to keep Australians safe? As you say, this isn't a new problem that came about last week and many jewish members of the public have been saying this would  happen and it has (on the current PM's watch). If I was being sceptical, I'd suggest that the law enforcement and intelligence agencies appear to pick and choose went to use intel to foil crimes.

I was referring to the political point scoring, GTC.

On the subject of leadership and dealing with terrorism, I reckon you're right... Aussies, regardless of religion, political persuasion, gender or hair colour! have a right to feel safe in their own country (as do Ukrainians, Jews and Palestinians!!). This Bondi horror happened on Albo's watch so he's copping in the neck but this is a failure of leadership over many years - addressing antisemitism and facing the reality that terrorists reside here and are planning horrors right now.

You can bet that ASIO and the AFP, in particular, will up their games now.

From Jillian Segal's Envoy report:
2.1 From October 2023 to September 2024, antisemitic incidents surged by 316%, with over 2,000 cases reported – threats, assaults, vandalism and intimidation. In October and November 2023 alone, episodes increased over 700% compared to the previous year, reflecting incitement by those with extremist views and misinformation in the media and online. These figures exclude much of the hate online, where antisemitism has exploded. Notable incidents include the firebombing of Melbourne’s Adass Israel Synagogue, firebombing of a childcare centre adjacent to a Synagogue and school, firebombing of cars in residential areas and the repeated targeting with graffiti of Jewish schools and places of worship. In February 2025, ASIO Director General Mike Burgess declared antisemitism Australia’s leading threat to life.

Clearly the Government, ASIO, the AFP have had the information but Albanese has refused to act and protect Jewish citizens in this country.Think I read that 70% of Jews in Australia vote Liberal which isnt unexpected and thats probably going to spiral upwards after recent events. Its been clear that the ALP and the Greens are anti Israel and pro Palestinian, so Albanese has been in no hurry to act until now of course when under the media and world spotlight. 50% of Jews left Nazi Germany pre war so it will be interesting to see if we get a significant exit from Australia now its unsafe for them. 

From Jillian Segal's Envoy report:
2.1 From October 2023 to September 2024, antisemitic incidents surged by 316%, with over 2,000 cases reported – threats, assaults, vandalism and intimidation. In October and November 2023 alone, episodes increased over 700% compared to the previous year, reflecting incitement by those with extremist views and misinformation in the media and online. These figures exclude much of the hate online, where antisemitism has exploded. Notable incidents include the firebombing of Melbourne’s Adass Israel Synagogue, firebombing of a childcare centre adjacent to a Synagogue and school, firebombing of cars in residential areas and the repeated targeting with graffiti of Jewish schools and places of worship. In February 2025, ASIO Director General Mike Burgess declared antisemitism Australia’s leading threat to life.

Clearly the Government, ASIO, the AFP have had the information but Albanese has refused to act and protect Jewish citizens in this country.Think I read that 70% of Jews in Australia vote Liberal which isnt unexpected and thats probably going to spiral upwards after recent events. Its been clear that the ALP and the Greens are anti Israel and pro Palestinian, so Albanese has been in no hurry to act until now of course when under the media and world spotlight. 50% of Jews left Nazi Germany pre war so it will be interesting to see if we get a significant exit from Australia now its unsafe for them. 

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on December 24, 2025, 09:44:21 am

From Jillian Segal's Envoy report:
2.1 From October 2023 to September 2024, antisemitic incidents surged by 316%, with over 2,000 cases reported – threats, assaults, vandalism and intimidation. In October and November 2023 alone, episodes increased over 700% compared to the previous year, reflecting incitement by those with extremist views and misinformation in the media and online. These figures exclude much of the hate online, where antisemitism has exploded. Notable incidents include the firebombing of Melbourne’s Adass Israel Synagogue, firebombing of a childcare centre adjacent to a Synagogue and school, firebombing of cars in residential areas and the repeated targeting with graffiti of Jewish schools and places of worship. In February 2025, ASIO Director General Mike Burgess declared antisemitism Australia’s leading threat to life.

Clearly the Government, ASIO, the AFP have had the information but Albanese has refused to act and protect Jewish citizens in this country.Think I read that 70% of Jews in Australia vote Liberal which isnt unexpected and thats probably going to spiral upwards after recent events. Its been clear that the ALP and the Greens are anti Israel and pro Palestinian, so Albanese has been in no hurry to act until now of course when under the media and world spotlight. 50% of Jews left Nazi Germany pre war so it will be interesting to see if we get a significant exit from Australia now its unsafe for them. 

My ex-neighbour who sold house and moved because of how bad it was in our area now believes he would feel safer in Israel and is considering uprooting his family and going there. Think about that for a second? Where are we at as a nation if even one person thinks living in the Middle East is safer than Melbourne/Australia?

You would think with Albo on the ropes with regards the economy, migration, anti semitism etc that the Libs would be soaring in the polls and climbing back into poll position for the next election but alas the nationals have bailed on them again and Party Leader David Littleproud has said they cant and wont be working with Susan Ley. Right Wing Fish and Chip purveyor Pauline Hanson's popularity on the other hand has gone through the parliamentary roof and its Susan Ley looking like she is yesterday's fish and chip paper and on the way out. Libs will do their usual next dud up mentality and pick Hastie or Taylor when they should looking at some of their younger better performers...
Albo might get in again by doing a Bradbury and staying off the pace while the others trip themselves up..

The LNP only need to get half a clue and a more effective leadership and that One Nation vote will disappear.
That's a challenge that appears beyond them at the moment.

The One Nation support is largely a reflection of the MAGA vote in the states.
Hanson pushes that theme and connection.
Around 20% is about the mark.
We're trailing a bit behind in Australia and some still think those policies are a recipe for success.
Not here.
And around November, not there either.

One nation voters seem to be multiplying at an eponential rate in some circles. Could be a somewhat genuine 3rd part alternative to libs and ALP and suprise a few.

I think the One nation popularity is due to the appalling Labour Government and the lack of confidence in their attitude to community safety and woeful economic performance.

[quote

The LNP only need to get half a clue and a more effective leadership and that One Nation vote will disappear.
That's a challenge that appears beyond them at the moment.

The One Nation support is largely a reflection of the MAGA vote in the states.
Hanson pushes that theme and connection.
Around 20% is about the mark.
We're trailing a bit behind in Australia and some still think those policies are a recipe for success.
Not here.
And around November, not there either.

Quote from: Lods – on January 24, 2026, 08:47:07 am

The LNP only need to get half a clue and a more effective leadership and that One Nation vote will disappear.
That's a challenge that appears beyond them at the moment.

The One Nation support is largely a reflection of the MAGA vote in the states.
Hanson pushes that theme and connection.
Around 20% is about the mark.
We're trailing a bit behind in Australia and some still think those policies are a recipe for success.
Not here.
And around November, not there either.

thats how Trump got in.

Don't underestimate an up yours vote. 

Quote from: Thryleon – on January 24, 2026, 03:57:57 pm

thats how Trump got in.

Don't underestimate an up yours vote. 

Yep Trump got in because Americans doing it tough got desperate enough to try any alternative and again he promised simplistic solutions to difficult problems. I think it was John Lennon who said in reference to the TV band "The Monkees"people will buy anything if you market it well enough or words to that effect..

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on January 24, 2026, 04:20:10 pm

Yep Trump got in because Americans doing it tough got desperate enough to try any alternative and again he promised simplistic solutions to difficult problems. I think it was John Lennon who said in reference to the TV band "The Monkees"people will buy anything if you market it well enough or words to that effect..

What's wrong with the Monkees >:(

Quote from: Lods – on January 24, 2026, 04:48:17 pm

What's wrong with the Monkees >:(

Lennon actually liked them as a comedy act and was a fan of their TV stuff but didnt see them as serious musicians...unlike somebody I know🤔😀

One Nation may be seen to keep some undesirables out of the country...but will they bring your grocery prices down.

Quote from: Lods – on January 24, 2026, 06:10:23 pm

One Nation may be seen to keep some undesirables out of the country...but will they bring your grocery prices down.

Don't you mean keep some undesirables in the country?  ;)

Another stabbing in the SW on Sunday night with the victim dying.

The man charged with a NYE stabbing has been granted bail despite the police having concerns about potential gang links

Didn't Jacinta promise tougher bail laws?

They are all FOS.  

Victoria now has its smallest full-time police force in close to seven years despite soaring crime and government promises to boost frontline officers...think I read in the HS we are 1700 officers down on where we need to be.
A family member was a Detective but has gone back to being in Uniform for the massive overtime that is being offered...

Peter Dean bashed and put in hospital by a couple of teenage car thieves.

Quote from: madbluboy – on February 11, 2026, 01:27:35 pm

Peter Dean bashed and put in hospital by a couple of teenage car thieves.

Jacinta said our state is very safe. You sure this is in Vic. It cant be.

Never been a more corrupt party.

Trump cant fart without everyone going nuts on here yet own backyard is a shambles on so many fronts and hardly a word.

funny that.

Quote from: shawny – on February 11, 2026, 06:39:16 pm

Jacinta said our state is very safe. You sure this is in Vic. It cant be.

Its in NSW actually.

So no Gold Coast rehab holiday?

Quote from: shawny – on February 11, 2026, 09:44:40 pm

Never been a more corrupt party.

Trump cant fart without everyone going nuts on here yet own backyard is a shambles on so many fronts and hardly a word.

funny that.

Why do you insist on deflecting criticism of the senile narcissist in the White House with ill-considered complaints about Australian governments?

We have a thread devoted to the lunacy of the convicted felon and I started this thread to give you a platform to air what you believe are problems with our State and Commonwealth governments.

If you want to defend the indefensible, post in the Taco thread.  If you want to bleat about Australian politicians, do it here.

Quote from: DJC – on February 12, 2026, 12:13:37 am

Why do you insist on deflecting criticism of the senile narcissist in the White House with ill-considered complaints about Australian governments?

We have a thread devoted to the lunacy of the convicted felon and I started this thread to give you a platform to air what you believe are problems with our State and Commonwealth governments.

If you want to defend the indefensible, post in the Taco thread.  If you want to bleat about Australian politicians, do it here.

Nice try at deflecting.

How people accept this absolute bloody disgrace corrupt bunch of criminals that just happens to be in charge of running our state - running it into the ground astounds me.

And my comparsion to US politics and the obsession with everything that happens on the other side of the world is very relevant and if comparing that to the corrupt government we have here just happens to trigger you well so be it.

Im fking triggered at the corrupt spending of 15 BILLION dollars of OUR money.

15 billion in case you didnt know is 15 thousand MILLION and yet not one comment about your thoughts on this situation.

i wonder why that is ?😏

Quote from: shawny – on February 12, 2026, 07:29:26 pm

Nice try at deflecting.

How people accept this absolute bloody disgrace corrupt bunch of criminals that just happens to be in charge of running our state - running it into the ground astounds me.

And my comparsion to US politics and the obsession with everything that happens on the other side of the world is very relevant and if comparing that to the corrupt government we have here just happens to trigger you well so be it.

Im fking triggered at the corrupt spending of 15 BILLION dollars of OUR money.

15 billion in case you didnt know is 15 thousand MILLION and yet not one comment about your thoughts on this situation.

i wonder why that is ?😏

It’s because DJC gets a trailing commission…



😎

Quote from: northernblue – on February 12, 2026, 10:19:29 pm

It’s because DJC gets a trailing commission…



😎

That was so funny - you should join the Labour party.

They pay clowns well

Quote from: shawny – on February 13, 2026, 09:54:15 am

That was so funny - you should join the Labour party.

They pay clowns well

You really need a hug man xo

@Shawny, you are very anti-labour, which is your right.
However, do you think liberals are all squeeky clean with no skeletons in the closet?

Everyone is corrupt

@Shawny, you are very anti-labour, which is your right.
However, do you think liberals are all squeeky clean with no skeletons in the closet?

Everyone is corrupt

Quote from: kruddler – on February 13, 2026, 01:13:38 pm

@Shawny, you are very anti-labour, which is your right.
However, do you think liberals are all squeeky clean with no skeletons in the closet?

Everyone is corrupt

Not at all.

i never once said the Libs will right every wrong and are honest true blah blah blah. i know very well they are generally all liars that dont follow through on promises and both sides blame one another whenever the sh1te hits the fan however regardless of which side of the fence you sit on we cant keep re electing a corrupt government simply because the alternative’may’ be just as bad. You cannot allow this sort of governance rewarded with re electing.

This very situation should be enough to remove a government imo.

if the same corrupt culture was found on a board of any private company would the board not be stood down immediately?

come on mate this can not be defended in any shape or form.

@Shawny, you are very anti-labour, which is your right.
However, do you think liberals are all squeeky clean with no skeletons in the closet?

Everyone is corrupt

Quote from: DJC – on February 12, 2026, 12:13:37 am

Why do you insist on deflecting criticism of the senile narcissist in the White House with ill-considered complaints about Australian governments?

We have a thread devoted to the lunacy of the convicted felon and I started this thread to give you a platform to air what you believe are problems with our State and Commonwealth governments.

If you want to defend the indefensible, post in the Taco thread.  If you want to bleat about Australian politicians, do it here.

Nice try at deflecting.

How people accept this absolute bloody disgrace corrupt bunch of criminals that just happens to be in charge of running our state - running it into the ground astounds me.

And my comparsion to US politics and the obsession with everything that happens on the other side of the world is very relevant and if comparing that to the corrupt government we have here just happens to trigger you well so be it.

Im fking triggered at the corrupt spending of 15 BILLION dollars of OUR money.

15 billion in case you didnt know is 15 thousand MILLION and yet not one comment about your thoughts on this situation.

i wonder why that is ?😏

Quote from: shawny – on February 12, 2026, 07:29:26 pm

Nice try at deflecting.

How people accept this absolute bloody disgrace corrupt bunch of criminals that just happens to be in charge of running our state - running it into the ground astounds me.

And my comparsion to US politics and the obsession with everything that happens on the other side of the world is very relevant and if comparing that to the corrupt government we have here just happens to trigger you well so be it.

Im fking triggered at the corrupt spending of 15 BILLION dollars of OUR money.

15 billion in case you didnt know is 15 thousand MILLION and yet not one comment about your thoughts on this situation.

i wonder why that is ?😏

I'm still waiting for you to have a crack at Chris Minns for the scumbag who kinghit Peter Dean being dealt with under the Young Offenders Act  ::)

If you're triggered by headlines, you probably should delve a little deeper, and I don't mean listening to influencer podcasts.

First of all the Allan Government doesn't "just happen to be in charge", they were democratically elected and, when you consider the rabble that's supposed to be the opposition, it's easy to see why.  The opposition at national level is worse, if anything, and Malcolm Turnbull's description of their incoming leader as the “best qualified idiot” is spot on.  It's funny how politicians often make more sense after they retire.

Secondly, the allegations, and that's all they are at this stage, were set out in a draft report by barrister Geoffrey Watson SC.  The draft report detailed the results of an investigation into CFMEU criminality and corruption commissioned by CFMEU administrator Mark Irving KC.  As I'm sure you know, Irving was appointed by the Commonwealth Government to clean up the CFMEU.  The report isn't a public document and is the property of the CFMEU.  When Irving read the draft, he directed Watson to delete two sections alleging that the Allan government knew of the CFMEU aggression and corruption, that Watson estimated cost Victorian taxpayers $15 billion, because he (Irving) was “not satisfied that they were well-founded or properly tested”.  That's the opinion of a King's Council and one of the most senior and respected industrial relations lawyers in the country, not a half-baked politician or shock jock.

Watson is p1ssed off that his allegations have been discarded but he recently said the government “would be mad to get rid of Mark Irving" and “I’ve worked for Irving for two years now, and I’ve never met a more honest or decent man … I can tell you, everything he did was opposed to corruption and was in favour of fixing the CFMEU.”

I think that scuttles any suggestion that Irving's rejection of the $15 billion corruption allegations was politically motivated or in any way intended to protect politicians or CFMEU operatives.

It's possible that the CFMEU did cost Victorian taxpayers $15 billion, or perhaps even $30 billion.  Heads should roll if the CFMEU cost Victorian taxpayers any funds above and beyond legitimate construction costs, and I don't just mean Allan and the relevant Ministers.  There's a raft of people - bureaucrats, police, regulators, auditors, union officials, opposition leader, shadow ministers, etc - who should be taking action at the slightest whiff of misuse of public funds and union corruption.

For the record, I don't think much of our democratically elected State Government; they're tired, short on talent, running out of ideas and money and desperately need a spell in opposition.  Sadly for Victoria and Victorians, the alternative government is no better after such a promising start by John Pesutto.  While I admire him for taking on the fascists, he wasn't very smart in the way that he went about it.

Without wanting to blow sunshine up your dot, David...

Your post is an astute and exemplary example of critical thinking, objectivity and cold hard facts with an intelligent conclusion. Great read old son. A lot better than any mainstream journalistic offering I've read.

Quote from: shawny – on February 12, 2026, 07:29:26 pm

Nice try at deflecting.

How people accept this absolute bloody disgrace corrupt bunch of criminals that just happens to be in charge of running our state - running it into the ground astounds me.

And my comparsion to US politics and the obsession with everything that happens on the other side of the world is very relevant and if comparing that to the corrupt government we have here just happens to trigger you well so be it.

Im fking triggered at the corrupt spending of 15 BILLION dollars of OUR money.

15 billion in case you didnt know is 15 thousand MILLION and yet not one comment about your thoughts on this situation.

i wonder why that is ?😏

I'm still waiting for you to have a crack at Chris Minns for the scumbag who kinghit Peter Dean being dealt with under the Young Offenders Act  ::)

If you're triggered by headlines, you probably should delve a little deeper, and I don't mean listening to influencer podcasts.

First of all the Allan Government doesn't "just happen to be in charge", they were democratically elected and, when you consider the rabble that's supposed to be the opposition, it's easy to see why.  The opposition at national level is worse, if anything, and Malcolm Turnbull's description of their incoming leader as the “best qualified idiot” is spot on.  It's funny how politicians often make more sense after they retire.

Secondly, the allegations, and that's all they are at this stage, were set out in a draft report by barrister Geoffrey Watson SC.  The draft report detailed the results of an investigation into CFMEU criminality and corruption commissioned by CFMEU administrator Mark Irving KC.  As I'm sure you know, Irving was appointed by the Commonwealth Government to clean up the CFMEU.  The report isn't a public document and is the property of the CFMEU.  When Irving read the draft, he directed Watson to delete two sections alleging that the Allan government knew of the CFMEU aggression and corruption, that Watson estimated cost Victorian taxpayers $15 billion, because he (Irving) was “not satisfied that they were well-founded or properly tested”.  That's the opinion of a King's Council and one of the most senior and respected industrial relations lawyers in the country, not a half-baked politician or shock jock.

Watson is p1ssed off that his allegations have been discarded but he recently said the government “would be mad to get rid of Mark Irving" and “I’ve worked for Irving for two years now, and I’ve never met a more honest or decent man … I can tell you, everything he did was opposed to corruption and was in favour of fixing the CFMEU.”

I think that scuttles any suggestion that Irving's rejection of the $15 billion corruption allegations was politically motivated or in any way intended to protect politicians or CFMEU operatives.

It's possible that the CFMEU did cost Victorian taxpayers $15 billion, or perhaps even $30 billion.  Heads should roll if the CFMEU cost Victorian taxpayers any funds above and beyond legitimate construction costs, and I don't just mean Allan and the relevant Ministers.  There's a raft of people - bureaucrats, police, regulators, auditors, union officials, opposition leader, shadow ministers, etc - who should be taking action at the slightest whiff of misuse of public funds and union corruption.

For the record, I don't think much of our democratically elected State Government; they're tired, short on talent, running out of ideas and money and desperately need a spell in opposition.  Sadly for Victoria and Victorians, the alternative government is no better after such a promising start by John Pesutto.  While I admire him for taking on the fascists, he wasn't very smart in the way that he went about it.

The Allan government were not democratically elected, Allan was handed the position by her party after the criminal behind her up and resigned which was after yet another lie after promising 6 months prior to the election he would be seeing out his term.  This was not a leader that was elected democratically by the voters let's get that straight.

Back to the point at hand, we can all find reports pointing to slightly different reasoning behind why and how the money wasted occurred and you may even choose to accept Allan saying she knew nothing about it but lets be honest that is all semantics and you can draw whatever conclusions you want from that - the bottom line is it happened and the governing party at the time is responsible. Surely you agree with that.  

I'm in agreeance with you in not being overly confident in the Libs but we as a state cannot allow the current party to govern any longer and anyone that cast's their vote for them again in November won't be able to keep a straight face saying they are voting with their head, as they aren't.

Long overdue for a change

Ok that's it for me - off to do some weeding.

You need to brush upon our system of government Shawny.  Voters elect their local member and five MLCs for each of eight regions. 

Allan was not elected 'by the people' to govern the state. Andrews was.  She was then 'elected' by the party which was my point.

DJC, I understand how it works. I'm not as ignorant as I think you like to believe I am.  

Allan was not elected 'by the people' to govern the state. Andrews was.  She was then 'elected' by the party which was my point.

Anyhow weeding completed as also is the discussion for me on this one mate.

Quote from: shawny – on February 14, 2026, 06:26:51 pm

Allan was not elected 'by the people' to govern the state. Andrews was.  She was then 'elected' by the party which was my point.

Nobody elects a poltician to be a Premier, Treasurer or any other position, those positions are the result of an internal party vote as are casual vacanies in the Legilstative Council. We do not have a Republic or President.

In the Legislative Council(Upper House) you might well think you are voting for a person, but you are really voting for a party.

For the Legislative Assembly(Lower House), you vote locally for your local member, those who first win locally become candidates for the party to elect to senior positions.

Why is their name on the ballot form
if your not electing the leader?

Quote from: shawny – on February 14, 2026, 08:31:53 pm

Why is their name on the ballot form
if your not electing the leader?

Unless you were in Allens or Andrews seat their names weren't on your ballot form.

anyhow as usual we have gotten off the subject so thats it from me. 

I think you know what i meant. every bit of advertising leafouts hand outs shows the leaders face.


blind freddie knows who the leaders are.

anyhow as usual we have gotten off the subject so thats it from me.

Quote from: shawny – on February 14, 2026, 09:22:14 pm

anyhow as usual we have gotten off the subject so thats it from me.

So in a political thread discussing state politics elections are off topic, while in a thread about a past player being bashed in a car jacking in NSW we have to talk state politics!

Sure, we understand! ::)

Quote from: shawny – on February 14, 2026, 09:22:14 pm

I think you know what i meant. every bit of advertising leafouts hand outs shows the leaders face.


blind freddie knows who the leaders are.

anyhow as usual we have gotten off the subject so thats it from me.

But you said that the current State government wasn’t democratically elected.

Quote from: DJC – on February 14, 2026, 10:17:38 pm

But you said that the current State government wasn’t democratically elected.

thats not what i said at all!!

my comment was relating to allan not being elected democratically.

she was elected by her party and i stand by that.

I understand what your saying but dont agree with it.

anyhow we are going in circles now

Quote from: DJC – on February 14, 2026, 10:17:38 pm

But you said that the current State government wasn’t democratically elected.

thats not what i said at all!!

my comment was relating to allan not being elected democratically.

she was elected by her party and i stand by that.

I understand what your saying but dont agree with it.

anyhow we are going in circles

Thread about a past player?

The post you replied to was originally relating to the 15Billion debarkle and then shifted to whos names appear on voting papers, hence the reference to off topic.

i get its a specialty of those who cant keep on the topic of local matters when it doesnt suit their political views.

Its there for all to see 🤓

Quote from: shawny – on February 15, 2026, 12:29:55 am

Thread about a past player?

The post you replied to was originally relating to the 15Billion debarkle and then shifted to whos names appear on voting papers, hence the reference to off topic.

i get its a specialty of those who cant keep on the topic of local matters when it doesnt suit their political views.

Its there for all to see 🤓

You're disingenuous, basically projecting your own behaviour, except as a tactic you are rubbish at it.

Everyone engaged in the Peter Dean bashing thread and this thread knows you're making a goose of yourself. What we don't know if it's you being deliberate to cross post and wind people up, or if you are just genuinely naive, chaotic and erratic.

But the more you post it becomes clearer and clearer you have little to say that is worth reading, you're painting yourself as either a rock thrower, sufferer of Dunning Kruger syndrome or genuinely detached from reality.

Don't go postal, get help, you genuinely need help I'm not joking.

@Shawny My concerns are genuine, you are on a self-destructive course fueled by social media fantasies, false claims and errors in fact. What if any valid points you make are lost in a blanket of subterfuge. Fantasies which you defend vigorously. It's a sign you're heading towards becoming the next Desi or Richard, and that is why my concerns are genuine. I've seen others go down this path, it never ends well.

People won't debate fantasy because those who profligate fantasy just grow the fantasy and bend it to suit perceptions and ignore or abuse those who often have done nothing more than offer reality as a measure of fact or fantasy. Even as the fantasies become more fantastical, the facts remain the same.

I can't or won't debate fantasies, but I'm free to never hesitate in pointing out errors, false claims or outright lies, which can be done with simple rudimentary facts.

Australian Government, Federal and State, is elected under the Westminster System. A system built on transparency, accountability and legality, even those matters held in camera area available to the review and debate of their peers, As such our political leaders are not autocrats, and they have no means of becoming autocratic. They answer to the public, they are elected by the public, and their political parties live and die by their performance. These are hard facts, not fantasy.

It's interesting to read about Jeff Kennett calling for an alliance between the Liberals and One Nation, I'd assert the polls are a tad selective to say the least. Kennett is happy to sell the soul of his former party for a dying shot at power. It's an interesting debate of means and ends.

For what it is worth, in Victoria at least, One Nation has become a trove for hard right fundamentalist Christian lobbyists. People who at times can be even scarier than the Neo Nazis that hide among them, perhaps not in violent extremism but at least in oppression, intolerance and persecution. Lobbyists who think racism, homophobia and bigotry are justified by God. They are the other side of the extremist coin to radical Muslim, and my signature line says it all.

Jess Allan well ahead in the preferred Premier polls according to the Herald Sun and I can see the Libs being tempted to do that preference deal with One Nation.

Won't matter much with debt soaring and the future bleak for Victorian's it's a Poison Chalice for who ever wins.

This is an open tolerant forum, far more tolerant to open debate than most, and one of the reasons we prefer it over so many others, people can spread conspiracies and fantasies within reason and shouldn't be offended when others may call them out for doing so.

Are you taking the piss? Seriously?

Quote from: madbluboy – on February 16, 2026, 10:13:31 am

Are you taking the piss? Seriously?

@madbluboy So you think there are other football forums that are more open and tolerant, can you offer some examples?

Quote from: LP – on February 16, 2026, 11:42:46 am

@madbluboy So you think there are other football forums that are more open and tolerant, can you offer some examples?

How are you and others being tolerant of Shawny's views? This thread was created to mock him.

How are you and others being tolerant of Shawny's views? This thread was created to mock him.

Quote from: madbluboy – on February 16, 2026, 12:08:42 pm

How are you and others being tolerant of Shawny's views? This thread was created to mock him.

I understand this thread was created to enable @shawny to post his political views here without cross posting on pretty much every thread. No different to the RedTrump thread, of the EV thread, they are nothing more than a filing cabinet? But even so, that doesn't give license to anyone to post fake news or false claims without opportunity for others to redress.

So how are we being intolerant?

And as for tolerance, you, me and everyone else, maybe not Lods… but the rest of us have all been intolerant boofheads at least once… some are BoG in that space.

Quote from: LP – on February 16, 2026, 12:35:32 pm

I understand this thread was created to enable @shawny to post his political views here without cross posting on pretty much every thread. No different to the RedTrump thread, of the EV thread, they are nothing more than a filing cabinet? But even so, that doesn't give license to anyone to post fake news or false claims without opportunity for others to redress.

So how are we being intolerant?

Its a football forum where fake news, rumours and innuendo reside comfortably and multiply in number because its all part of the landscape of public forums. It seems we can all agree and disagree on football matters and none of it is taken too seriously and posters move on but Politics seems to be a sensitive topic that is extra divisive.
FWIW I enjoy Shawny postings and see nothing fake about what he draws attention too and Political Parties do get elected in many cases imo based on the personalities/leadership/selling of rather than the policies.
eg How many people could tell you what One Nations major Policies were? but I bet they could tell you who is their leader and what was his/her previous employment...
Jacinta Allan was democratically elected to Parliament as the member for Bendigo East but became Premier as she was chosen unopposed as Leader of the Labor Party after Andrews stepped down. She wasnt elected as Premier Elect initially which I think is the point Shawny was trying to make.

So turn the heat down we can do what vicpol did and buy some machete bins?  :P

Shawny and I have gone head to head on a few football related matters, but none of it is personal.  Political tends to be a bit more personal, because frankly, government action (or inaction) impacts everyone a little differently depending on what walk of life you and your loved ones are in.

Personally, a major government failing, is spending a lot of money, and effort to give the appearance of doing something, without actually achieving anything.  Lots of it motivated by optics, and less about outcomes.  The machete bins are a fan favourite of mine, because they represent my previous argument better than I can make it.  A lot of money pilfered away reactively to a couple of incidents, and an exercise in tokenism at best. 

Not to enforce change, not to enforce any sort of law enforcement.  Whats the difference between a machete, an axe and a meat cleaver?  Hell, it could be a golf club or a cricket bat too.  Degrees of injury for each item, and also deadliness, but ultimatley the person wielding it is the issue (yes that applies to guns, but guns are a little more regulated than any other item ive mentioned here).

This is government agnostic too and event agnostic.  There were degrees of stupidity regarding all things government, but lately things have gotten a bit ridiculous.

Jacinta Allan was democratically elected to Parliament as the member for Bendigo East but became Premier as she was chosen unopposed as Leader of the Labor Party after Andrews stepped down. She wasnt elected as Premier Elect initially which I think is the point Shawny was trying to make.

How many pages are we up to for the 'Red Trump' who runs a country on the other side of the world?  :-X Sorry DJC i know you get quite annoyed at any reference of the man but the irony is too much to ignore.

Quote from: shawny – on February 16, 2026, 03:37:02 pm

How many pages are we up to for the 'Red Trump' who runs a country on the other side of the world?  :-X Sorry DJC i know you get quite annoyed at any reference of the man but the irony is too much to ignore.

Off topic posts are the bane of a moderator's existence Shawny, but I'll let that one slide   :)

Quote from: DJC – on February 16, 2026, 04:11:06 pm

Off topic posts are the bane of a moderator's existence Shawny, but I'll let that one slide   :)

Isn't that an off topic post!

.....and this one.  :P

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on February 16, 2026, 01:47:31 pm

Jacinta Allan was democratically elected to Parliament as the member for Bendigo East but became Premier as she was chosen unopposed as Leader of the Labor Party after Andrews stepped down. She wasnt elected as Premier Elect initially which I think is the point Shawny was trying to make.

Once again, all State or Commonwealth leader are elected/appointed by their parties.  That's the Westminster democratic process in accordance with all Australian constitutions and conventions.  Jess Wilson was elected Leader of the Opposition by the Parliamentary Liberal Party, not the Victorian electorate.  That doesn't mean that she's not the democratically elected Leader of the Opposition.

Of course, the Greens take their leadership one step further and all party members get to vote for the leader.

There's plenty to criticise about Jacinta Allan without falsely claiming that she's not the democratically elected premier.

Thats part of what I said, yep its all Democratic but thats not what Shawny was arguing imho, Allan didnt enter the election as Premier and as I suggested a lot of voters often vote for the personalities/leaders rather than knowing too much about the policies.
 For all Andrews failings as Premier of which there were many, varied and sordid he was an excellent political tactician and salesman and while Labor still would have bolted in to win the election, Labor voters got something different than what they voted for with Allan steering the ship after Andrews did his job and made sure they were re-elected.

Thats part of what I said, yep its all Democratic but thats not what Shawny was arguing imho, Allan didnt enter the election as Premier and as I suggested a lot of voters often vote for the personalities/leaders rather than knowing too much about the policies.

How many pages are we up to for the 'Red Trump' who runs a country on the other side of the world?

I see hope in countries starting to work together without the US - we'll see how it all goes!

The Victorian and Federal Governments appear untouchable despite fark up after fark up.
Locally I'd like to think Wilson will give it a good shake leading up to November but once Labour start with the playing the man (or woman) muck raking  tactics, the Victoria public seem just lap it up.

A 15 year old and a 17 year old had a fight in a Geelong shopping centre last week. The 15 year old stabbed the 17 year old and he’s in hospital with critical injuries.

The police tracked the 15 year old down and he appeared in court charged with the stabbing and committing an offence while on bail.

The magistrate released him on bail 🙄

Where did that $15bn figure come from?

Watson described the figure as a “very rough” estimate based on the opinions of “highly qualified stakeholders”.

Given the Big Build was worth roughly $100bn and industry sources told Watson that cost blowouts linked to CFMEU conduct ranged between 10% and 30%, he settled on an estimate of 15%, describing it as “not unreasonable” and “probably conservative”.

“From there the maths is simple – the leadership of the CFMEU has cost the Victorian taxpayer something like $15bn,” the redacted chapter reads. “There is another point to this – as will be seen, much of that $15bn has been poured directly into the hands of criminals and organised crime gangs.”

The Fair Work Commission’s general manager, Murray Furlong, later told Senate estimates the $15bn figure was “consistent with what I’ve heard from officials from the Victorian government”.

However, David Hayward, an emeritus professor of public policy and the social economy at RMIT University, said there “doesn’t seem any reason to believe criminality was as financially significant” as the redacted Watson chapters suggest.

He said overruns were largely due to increased materials and equipment costs, and issues at particular projects.

“What I don’t understand is why [Watson] went down the exaggeration path when he already established a strong case around corruption and criminality, and he really didn’t have to put an estimate in,” Hayward said.

The economist Saul Eslake said the engineering construction implicit price deflator – a measure of price growth used by Australian Bureau of Statistics – showed costs in Victoria went up by 36.8% between December 2014 and September 2025.

But this was lower than New South Wales at 37.4% and national figure of 41.7%.

“All the talk is that Victoria has become a much more expensive place to build and yet the data tells me a different story,” he said.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2026/feb/16/cfmeu-victorian-branch-15bn-cost-estimate-explained-administrator-report-ntwnfb

Quote from: DJC – on February 22, 2026, 12:34:23 pm

A 15 year old and a 17 year old had a fight in a Geelong shopping centre last week. The 15 year old stabbed the 17 year old and he’s in hospital with critical injuries.

The police tracked the 15 year old down and he appeared in court charged with the stabbing and committing an offence while on bail.

The magistrate released him on bail 🙄

The 15 year old was back in court and was remanded in custody, as he should have been in the first place!

I'm not generally in favour of mandatory sentencing or bail laws as I believe that magistrates and judges require discretion to administer justice fairly to all.  However, if someone commits a violent crime or offends while on bail, there would have to be a very persuasive argument put forward before bail became a consideration.

The $15bn allegedly ripped off by the CFMEU has become a major issue for the Victorian Government but how exactly was that figure arrived at?

Quote

Where did that $15bn figure come from?

Watson described the figure as a “very rough” estimate based on the opinions of “highly qualified stakeholders”.

Given the Big Build was worth roughly $100bn and industry sources told Watson that cost blowouts linked to CFMEU conduct ranged between 10% and 30%, he settled on an estimate of 15%, describing it as “not unreasonable” and “probably conservative”.

“From there the maths is simple – the leadership of the CFMEU has cost the Victorian taxpayer something like $15bn,” the redacted chapter reads. “There is another point to this – as will be seen, much of that $15bn has been poured directly into the hands of criminals and organised crime gangs.”

The Fair Work Commission’s general manager, Murray Furlong, later told Senate estimates the $15bn figure was “consistent with what I’ve heard from officials from the Victorian government”.

However, David Hayward, an emeritus professor of public policy and the social economy at RMIT University, said there “doesn’t seem any reason to believe criminality was as financially significant” as the redacted Watson chapters suggest.

He said overruns were largely due to increased materials and equipment costs, and issues at particular projects.

“What I don’t understand is why [Watson] went down the exaggeration path when he already established a strong case around corruption and criminality, and he really didn’t have to put an estimate in,” Hayward said.

The economist Saul Eslake said the engineering construction implicit price deflator – a measure of price growth used by Australian Bureau of Statistics – showed costs in Victoria went up by 36.8% between December 2014 and September 2025.

But this was lower than New South Wales at 37.4% and national figure of 41.7%.

“All the talk is that Victoria has become a much more expensive place to build and yet the data tells me a different story,” he said.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2026/feb/16/cfmeu-victorian-branch-15bn-cost-estimate-explained-administrator-report-ntwnfb

So Watson's guestimate has got people outraged when the facts of the matter, according to independent, conservative and highly respected economist, Saul Eslake, present a very different story.

Of course, this isn't a defence of the CFMEU; an organisation that should have been stamped on well before Albo took action.

If you’re on stalkbook, look up “Mr Cucumber” he ran this on Monday.
Investigation… absolutely required, crimes committed… possibly… A headline screamed from the rooftops, totally !

8 million dollar Medicare fraud committed by detainees at the Melbourne immigration centre and they were given Visa's and bail plus allowed out into the community. Detainee tip...So if you are being detained at an Immigration centre the easy way out is to commit a crime and thus win your freedom.

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on February 25, 2026, 03:25:21 pm

8 million dollar Medicare fraud committed by detainees at the Melbourne immigration centre and they were given Visa's and bail plus allowed out into the community. Detainee tip...So if you are being detained at an Immigration centre the easy way out is to commit a crime and thus win your freedom.

I would take anything Senator James Paterson says with a grain of salt.

The former immigration detainees were granted Criminal Justice Visas; a standard procedure when immigration detainees are charged with criminal offences or required to give evidence in a trial.  Depending on the outcome of the court cases, the former detainees will be imprisoned and then deported or returned to immigration detention, then deported.

Compelling.  Thought this belonged here more than anywhere else.  Remember this when people start bashing numbers at you.

I would take anything Senator James Paterson says with a grain of salt.

The former immigration detainees were granted Criminal Justice Visas; a standard procedure when immigration detainees are charged with criminal offences or required to give evidence in a trial.  Depending on the outcome of the court cases, the former detainees will be imprisoned and then deported or returned to immigration detention, then deported.

James Paterson and Andrew Bragg are two of the better performed Liberal Senators imo and yep I know their job as the Libs attack dogs is to drag up dirt on anything Labor do/dont do but the reality is this present Government are great at serving up themselves up on a plate,making mistake after mistake and then trying to cover it up. Letting detainees back into the public who have been charged with serious crimes is horrendous imo and lacking common sense much like giving ISIS brides Passports to come back to Australia and then trying to cover it up and deny giving assistance...
Paterson usually gets it right imo and while he can be over the top wanting detail and pedantic about scoring political points Id rather that than letting these incidents be covered up and buried by the Government..

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on February 28, 2026, 12:59:17 pm

James Paterson and Andrew Bragg are two of the better performed Liberal Senators imo and yep I know their job as the Libs attack dogs is to drag up dirt on anything Labor do/dont do but the reality is this present Government are great at serving up themselves up on a plate,making mistake after mistake and then trying to cover it up. Letting detainees back into the public who have been charged with serious crimes is horrendous imo and lacking common sense much like giving ISIS brides Passports to come back to Australia and then trying to cover it up and deny giving assistance...
Paterson usually gets it right imo and while he can be over the top wanting detail and pedantic about scoring political points Id rather that than letting these incidents be covered up and buried by the Government..

That's why the Libs are in the doldrums!

A Criminal Justice Visa is granted by the Department of Home Affairs so that an immigration detainee can be kept in the country to face charges.  It's routine and there's nothing unusual or untoward about this.  They were granted bail by the court, as is usually the case for non-violent offenders who aren't flight risks.  The Government doesn't determine who gets bail.

The ISIS brides are Australian citizens and the Australian Government has no choice but to issue them with replacement passports.  It's the law.

Paterson doesn't get things right.  He fakes outrage over part of the story and ignores the facts.

Non Violent Offenders/Flight risk?....one from a neighbouring country has connections to a criminal bikie gang and the other main offender is an Indian National, Id view both as risks to leave the country...
The ISIS brides are extremists and a threat to the community imo and the Minister has the power to issue exclusion orders..
 Under section 17 return permits can be revoked "on the Minister's own initiative".
What this means practically is that Australian citizens could, technically, be banned from returning indefinitely which Is what should happen but Tony Burke has promised his Dr mate he will let them back in and wont act in the interests of the country
Paterson was on the money exposing the whole mess but unfortunately it seems NSW and Victoria will be having to re-house and pay for these Terrorist Brides to live amongst us...

Quote from: ElwoodBlues1 – on February 28, 2026, 03:57:41 pm

Non Violent Offenders/Flight risk?....one from a neighbouring country has connections to a criminal bikie gang and the other main offender is an Indian National, Id view both as risks to leave the country...
The ISIS brides are extremists and a threat to the community imo and the Minister has the power to issue exclusion orders..
 Under section 17 return permits can be revoked "on the Minister's own initiative".
What this means practically is that Australian citizens could, technically, be banned from returning indefinitely which Is what should happen but Tony Burke has promised his Dr mate he will let them back in and wont act in the interests of the country
Paterson was on the money exposing the whole mess but unfortunately it seems NSW and Victoria will be having to re-house and pay for these Terrorist Brides to live amongst us...

So how do you get them to court without a Criminal Justice Visa?

These procedures have been in operation for many years under governments of both persuasions.  Do you expect the current government to ignore the law?

As for Ene, I’m pretty sure that a judge can’t refuse bail on the grounds that the accused’s brother is a bikie.  I’m also pretty sure that (a) Singh isn’t keen on returning to India and (b) the bail conditions will prevent him trying.

I don’t think there’s a one size fits all solution to the ISIS brides and their children.  A child married at 14 probably deserves different treatment to an adult who still supports ISIS.  But that doesn’t change the Australian government’s obligation to provide citizens with replacement passports. 

Furthermore, ASIO would be all over whether any of these women and children present a security threat.  I’m inclined to go with their assessment over Peta Credlin’s.

The goverment prevented a professional tennis player entering the country because he wouldnt take a vaccine but cant find a way to prevent ISIS sympathises who left on their own accord back onto our shores as its un lawfull. really?

Our PM provided his usual lip service after the Bondi terror attack saying he would make any changes needed to keep us safe yet as usual when it comes to the crunch he lies diverts and fails to act.

Yet people are still surprised with one nations rapid support.

The public have had a gutful of the current party.

Sorry Shawny but you’re not the public and I think you’ll find that the sensible centre has had a gutful of extremist claims, be they right or left.

As with the CFMEU $15-30Bn beat up, none of this stands up to scrutiny.  The Government, regardless of its persuasion, has to comply with the law. 

But let’s celebrate yet another right wing terrorist being arrested by the WA Joint Counter Terrorism Team before he could implement his deadly plan.  I suspect that these wannabe Nazis present a much greater threat than the ISIS brides and their children.  Where’s the outrage at these terrorists?

Quote from: shawny – on February 28, 2026, 10:13:19 pm

The goverment prevented a professional tennis player entering the country because he wouldnt take a vaccine but cant find a way to prevent ISIS sympathises who left on their own accord back onto our shores as its un lawfull. really?

Our PM provided his usual lip service after the Bondi terror attack saying he would make any changes needed to keep us safe yet as usual when it comes to the crunch he lies diverts and fails to act.

Yet people are still surprised with one nations rapid support.

The public have had a gutful of the current party.

Sorry Shawny but you’re not the public and I think you’ll find that the sensible centre has had a gutful of extremist claims, be they right or left.

As with the CFMEU $15-30Bn beat up, none of this stands up to scrutiny.  The Government, regardless of its persuasion, has to comply with the law. 

One Nation enjoys a measure of support at the moment because of the turmoil in both the Coalition parties.
That will drift away pretty quickly.
It's probably already started...watch the polls.
You'll probably find a lot of those people who are saying they're voting 'One Nation' are doing it as a bit of a protest at the state of coalition parties
One Nation might have some minor impact in the State election in SA I suspect it will be mostly gone by the time the Victorian election comes around

Hanson has had some strange bedfellows along the way but they never last.
The latest with Barnaby will go the same way.
They lack the political nous and organisation and are too different to successfully mount a co-ordinated challenge in  lower houses.
Their upper house seats often turn independent as disagreements arise with party leadership and direction.

I also see it in some respects as a bit of a leaning to the politics in America.
"Make Australia Great Again".
It was successful there...why not here?

The problem is, that 'bus' in the USA is gradually, but surely, losing its wheels and some just haven't caught up with the fact that it's a 'slippery slide' route to chaos that we really don't want to take.

The idea that people would vote for a policy-less, clueless, pig ignorant racist as an expression of dissatisfaction with the major parties is laughable. If you don't think any of them are worth a vote, then you should stand on principle, wear a very modest financial penalty and not vote at all. Why would you replace one pile of trash with an even bigger pile, just to send a message, or stick to individuals or groups you don't like ?

Where is most of the One Nation 'vote' coming from?
I suspect it's mostly a drift from the Coalition.

The LNP have a bit of a task because they have to pull that vote back, but they can't afford a drift too far to the right because they then lose that moderate vote in the middle where the next election will actually be decided.

The idea that people would vote for a policy-less, clueless, pig ignorant racist as an expression of dissatisfaction with the major parties is laughable. If you don't think any of them are worth a vote, then you should stand on principle, wear a very modest financial penalty and not vote at all. Why would you replace one pile of trash with an even bigger pile, just to send a message, or stick to individuals or groups you don't like ?

Quote from: Lods – on March 01, 2026, 11:06:23 am

Where is most of the One Nation 'vote' coming from?
I suspect it's mostly a drift from the Coalition.

The LNP have a bit of a task because they have to pull that vote back, but they can't afford a drift too far to the right because they then lose that moderate vote in the middle where the next election will actually be decided.

Its too big a swing to be only from coalition supporters Lods.

How do you explain one nation which is about as far right wing as you can get rapidly rising in popularity

Or is it another beat up BS story like the 15-30B of our tax payers money going to illegal activities, which as it cant be verified to your liking is now dismissed ?

DJC these are the times when you keep defending and refuse to admit any wrong doing that you lose credibility to me as its obvious your comments are not coming from a balanced view of the situation. Majority of us have a political side we support but most can also call a spade a spade too.

Oh well we shall all see in the upcoming elections what the people think.

The swings currently being reported in the polls depend greatly on who you ask and what is the question. As I've mentioned before, Victorian's voting for Hansen's One Nation party which is almost devoid of local representation, is like Australian's voting to be remote managed by Bejing.

Her party is built on a primary industry foundation, primary industry that is almost 100% subservient to China's buying power.

Beef, lamb, coal, iron, aluminium, soy, wheat, corn, etc., etc., etc.. you name it, China's market dominance controls it and indirectly funds One Nation, despite her racist rhetoric she is completely beholding to them.

Quote from: shawny – on March 01, 2026, 09:37:28 am

How do you explain one nation which is about as far right wing as you can get rapidly rising in popularity

Or is it another beat up BS story like the 15-30B of our tax payers money going to illegal activities, which as it cant be verified to your liking is now dismissed ?

DJC these are the times when you keep defending and refuse to admit any wrong doing that you lose credibility to me as its obvious your comments are not coming from a balanced view of the situation. Majority of us have a political side we support but most can also call a spade a spade too.

Oh well we shall all see in the upcoming elections what the people think.

Have you tried Vote Compass?

If not it's at https://votecompass.com/

It's based on the last election but still shows how your views/opinions fit in with those of the five major parties.  It also shows how much the policies of the parties overlap.

For the record, my results are slightly to the left of dead centre.

We'll see how all this Iran business changes things. 

America doing American things.

Good old regime change and freedom.  Without worrying about whos right and wrong how would we all like it if Xi xing ping decided to give us a regime change and some good old Chinese branded structure? 

We'll see how all this Iran business changes things. 

America doing American things.

Good old regime change and freedom.  Without worrying about whos right and wrong how would we all like it if Xi xing ping decided to give us a regime change and some good old Chinese branded structure? 

.....................................................

One Nation is completely foreign to the Liberal cause, the antithesis of Liberal politics. Hansen sprouts Socialist policies, closer to Communism than Liberal. Socialism and Fascism can be two sides of the same coin.

That certainly got my attention.

The hard reality here is that Wilson has kyboshed the possibility of a One Nation deal, it's not surprising.

It's really the hard right demanding anarchy as a solution to opacity, which as I have already stated is ironic given where the money indirectly comes from for One Nation, which seems to be conveniently ignored by many that shout the loudest.

For example, how do they rationalise rallying against the sale of the Victorian port to China state owned enterprise, while still being One Nation boosters? One Nation a party that is largely funded by primary industry which earns it's cash from the sale of resources to China.

One Nation is completely foreign to the Liberal cause, the antithesis of Liberal politics. Hansen sprouts Socialist policies, closer to Communism than Liberal. Socialism and Fascism can be two sides of the same coin.

Good old-fashioned fascism is creeping into social and political perspectives everywhere.

Maybe we can label it the Global Amnesia Pandemic, or GAP for short! Obviously there has been too long of a gap between the consequences of real global conflict, oppression and hatred as distinct from modern life.

Labor just voted against giving Victorias anti corruption watchdog the powers it needs to investigate the 15B corruption on Vics big build projects.

All while Jacinta defends adamantly with 'they have nothing to hide.'   :o

The balanced public already know how corrupt this government is yet for those on the fence this again doesn't pass the pub test.

Quote from: shawny – on March 04, 2026, 09:34:32 am

Labor just voted against giving Victorias anti corruption watchdog the powers it needs to investigate the 15B corruption on Vics big build projects.

All while Jacinta defends adamantly with 'they have nothing to hide.'   :o

The balanced public already know how corrupt this government is yet for those on the fence this again doesn't pass the pub test.

That's not correct!

The Victorian Government introduced an omnibus justice bill in response to the Bondi massacre.  The opposition and cross benches tried to add a half-baked amendment that was intended to increase IBAC's powers.  The Government, as is their right, refused to allow that amendment to be passed.  No Australian government would have allowed that to happen.  It's the elected Government that sets the legislative agenda, not the opposition and cross benches.

A bipartisan parliamentary committee has made recommendations regarding IBAC's power to conduct "follow the money" investigations and the Government must table its response to those recommendations within six months.  That is the appropriate and considered approach to developing legislation.

Meanwhile, VicPol's Taskforce Hawk has laid more than 70 charges against 15 individuals involved in construction industry criminality and the Big Build.

You can certainly question the competence of the Victorian Government but that's not corruption.

Leaving aside the fact that too many people in lay discourse confuse and conflate fascism and authoritarianism, to say nothing of the blurring of lines and lumping together socialism, communism, Marxism, "the left" etc, I'll leave you with this : neither Hanson herself, nor any member of her party, nor any of her supporters, nor any scholar of the left, nor any students of the left, would consider One Nation to be socialist or communist, not in part, and not in whole.

Pat, just take the L and move on. Hanson and One Nation are not Communist or Socialist.

Quote from: PaulP – on March 05, 2026, 07:00:53 am

Pat, just take the L and move on. Hanson and One Nation are not Communist or Socialist.

Talk to me about actions not words, the labels self-applied are meaningless, the words are a script, rehearsed and delivered with professional aplomb. There is a reason in law the participants are described as actors.

Who does Hanson target, what or who is the focus of her political ire, somebody different?

How do her actions compare to her words? Do as I tell you and you'll be OK!

More directly for yourself, as a long supporter of the rights and freedoms of the individual, the freedom to identify, how would Hanson label you? How would those you care for fair in Hanson's world compared to RedTrump?

As I study Hanson's politics, I realise she is comfortable telling you how to vote, without really arguing a case.

We debate alternatives to governments but they have to be genuine alternatives. In the meantime, the press lecture us about labelling the MAGA like Sovcits as dumb, like winning the US election that lead to current events somehow proves us wrong, I'd call it a confirmation of truth! When RedTrump puts boots on the ground, will he be on the front line, would Hanson, who are the pawns?

Ignoring the underlying laws, how is local politics different?

Is this the uncomfortable debate Hanson's supporters do not want to have?

If there is a weakness in the current Labor or Liberal parties, it's the weakness is calling out the extreme minority views, they are beholding to the minority and it's a consequence of their own doing!

With Pauline and One Nation all I see is a group of malcontents who can't get through the day without complaining about someone or something. A group of emotionally, psychologically and spiritually stunted individuals wondering about bitterly condemning others who are different to them. Totally devoid of humanitarianism... unless you're angry and fearful like them, which puts them closer to the Far Right than anything.

It's grievance politics all the way down.

When you look at the grievances in detail, they are as diverse as the rainbow, the only commonality is that everybody has one!..................

There's nothing diverse about the grievances from Hanson / One Nation. Look through 30 years of her and the party's public and political life. Not only are those grievances historically and internally consistent, they map very closely to far right / populist parties and individuals all over the globe.

I was primarily referring to the voters not the politicians, in the voter demographic the grievances are non-aligned, but they all have one!........................................................

People having different reasons for voting for this or that party is nothing new or unique, nor is the idea that politicians would cast as a wide a net as possible to attract votes.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/police-respond-to-incident-at-melbourne-railway-station-20260306-p5o8ar.html

Machettes were involved again. Word is the 22 YO deceased man was not part of the initial fight between the teenagers but stepped in to try to deescalate things. Terrible and reality is 3 out 4 are under 18 so very likely will be out on bail walking the streets in coming days.

Police station is literally 300m from where this occurred but due to cuts is no longer manned 24hr.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/police-respond-to-incident-at-melbourne-railway-station-20260306-p5o8ar.html

Machettes were involved again. Word is the 22 YO deceased man was not part of the initial fight between the teenagers but stepped in to try to deescalate things. Terrible and reality is 3 out 4 are under 18 so very likely will be out on bail walking the streets in coming days.

Police station is literally 300m from where this occurred but due to cuts is no longer manned 24hr.
 

According to Time Out, Shanghai, Edinburgh, London and New York are in the top five for the world's best cites, but the champion of the Best Cities list for 2026 is Melbourne.

Who'da thunk it!

Quote from: DJC – on March 15, 2026, 12:44:38 pm

According to Time Out, Shanghai, Edinburgh, London and New York are in the top five for the world's best cites, but the champion of the Best Cities list for 2026 is Melbourne.

Who'da thunk it!

I saw that a couple of days ago.

It seems as though the methodology of that survey is not, shall we say, particularly robust. Possible more for sh1ts and giggles than anything else. What is important IMO, is that across a range of different surveys / analyses from different institutions, Melbourne is constantly ranked near the top, as the 2nd half of this article shows.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2026/mar/11/time-out-melbourne-best-city-world

Quote from: PaulP – on March 15, 2026, 01:02:01 pm

I saw that a couple of days ago.

It seems as though the methodology of that survey is not, shall we say, particularly robust. Possible more for sh1ts and giggles than anything else. What is important IMO, is that across a range of different surveys / analyses from different institutions, Melbourne is constantly ranked near the top, as the 2nd half of this article shows.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2026/mar/11/time-out-melbourne-best-city-world

living off past glories IMHO.

Perhaps these lists arent what they're cracked up to be.