Carlton Supporters Club

Princes Park => Robert Heatley Stand => Topic started by: kruddler on November 29, 2025, 08:19:02 pm

Poll
Question: Who is our best starting 6 forwards?
Option 1: *** currently vacant votes: 0
Option 2: *****Backline group*****2 - Lachie Cowan votes: 0
Option 3: 3 - Jesse Motlop votes: 5
Option 4: 4 - Oliver Hollands votes: 0
Option 5: *****Midfield group*****5 - Adam Cerra votes: 0
Option 6: 6 - Zac Williams votes: 7
Option 7: 7 - Jagga Smith votes: 0
Option 8: 8 - Lachie Fogarty votes: 0
Option 9: *****Midfield group*****9 - Patrick Cripps votes: 0
Option 10: 10 - Harry McKay votes: 12
Option 11: 11 - Mitch McGovern votes: 1
Option 12: 12 - Ben Ainsworth votes: 10
Option 13: 13 - Blake Acres votes: 0
Option 14: 14 - Ollie Florent votes: 0
Option 15: 15 - Billy Wilson votes: 0
Option 16: 16 - Ben Camporeale votes: 0
Option 17: 17 - Brodie Kemp votes: 8
Option 18: *****Midfield group*****18 - Sam Walsh votes: 0
Option 19: 19 - Will Hayward votes: 12
Option 20: ***20 - Elijah Hollands - currently not on our list votes: 1
Option 21: 21 - Lucas Camporeale votes: 0
Option 22: 22 - Harry O'Farrell votes: 0
Option 23: *****Backline group*****23 - Jacob Weitering votes: 0
Option 24: *****Backline group*****24 - Nick Newman votes: 0
Option 25: 25 - Liam Reidy votes: 0
Option 26: *****Backline group*****26 - Nick Haynes votes: 0
Option 27: *****Midfield group*****27 - Marc Pittonet votes: 0
Option 28: 28 - Harry Charleson votes: 0
Option 29: *****Midfield group*****29 - George Hewitt votes: 0
Option 30: 30 - Jack Ison votes: 0
Option 31: 31 - Campbell Chesser votes: 0
Option 32: 32 - Matthew Carroll votes: 0
Option 33: 33 - Lewis Young votes: 0
Option 34: 34 - Rob Monahan votes: 0
Option 35: 35 - Harry Dean votes: 0
Option 36: 36 - Cooper Lord votes: 1
Option 37: 37 - Jordan Boyd votes: 0
Option 38: ***38 - Will White - currently not on our list votes: 0
Option 39: 39 - Talor Byrne votes: 0
Option 40: 40 - Hudson O'Keeffe votes: 4
Option 41: 41 - Matt Duffy votes: 0
Option 42: *****Backline group*****42 - Adam Saad votes: 0
Option 43: 43 - Ashton Moir votes: 7
Option 44: 44 - Francis Evans votes: 4
Option 45: 45 - Flynn Young votes: 0
Option 46: 46 - Matt Cottrell votes: 0
Title: Pick our team in parts - Part 3 - 6x Starting forwards- CHOOSE 6!
Post by: kruddler on November 29, 2025, 08:19:02 pm
OK, so part 1+2 have given us a result, so time to move onto 3.

Assume EVERYONE is fit.

Pick 6 forwards, in position.

Ignore players who have already been picked midfield/backline

Current team has a hole in each group, which we will get back to later, but looks something like this....

FB - Cowan - Weitering - Newman
HB - Saad - Haynes - xxxxxxx
C - Walsh - Cripps - xxxxxxx
R - Pittonet - Cerra - Hewett

Have at it.
Title: Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 3 - 6x Starting forwards- CHOOSE 6!
Post by: Lods on November 29, 2025, 10:39:41 pm
It's kind of predictable what our finished team will look like.
People will go for what they're familiar with.
Hayward will probably be an inclusion most will agree on, but other recruits will struggle to get a jumper.
And fully fit with no injuries...it won't be a bad side.
There may be a sprinkling of newbies on the bench.

Our problems over the last few years have always been about fielding our best side.
It just hasn't been possible.
The only way it can realistically be achieved, without huge luck, is on paper (or screen)

But I suspect that what we finish with when this exercise is done will be very different to the side that actually takes the field against Sydney.
I expect all of Dean, Hayward, Ainsworth and Florent to be in the 23.
As well as Jagga Smith.
Title: Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 3 - 6x Starting forwards- CHOOSE 6!
Post by: DJC on November 30, 2025, 03:03:06 am
Can't vote  :(
Title: Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 3 - 6x Starting forwards- CHOOSE 6!
Post by: Lods on November 30, 2025, 07:49:29 am

Strange...conspiracy ;)
Title: Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 3 - 6x Starting forwards- CHOOSE 6!
Post by: kruddler on November 30, 2025, 09:01:25 am

Nothing showing why you can't.
7 others have.
Poll is not locked, I've locked the midfield and defender ones though.

Can you see the results?
Title: Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 3 - 6x Starting forwards- CHOOSE 6!
Post by: DJC on November 30, 2025, 09:29:31 am
Can't vote  :(

Nothing showing why you can't.
7 others have.
Poll is not locked, I've locked the midfield and defender ones though.

Can you see the results?

Yes I can see the results.

I had a quick look and “liked” the post.  When I returned to the thread to complete the poll I was locked out - and my selections were going to be earth shattering 🤣
Title: Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 3 - 6x Starting forwards- CHOOSE 6!
Post by: Lods on November 30, 2025, 09:47:54 am


Nothing showing why you can't.
7 others have.
Poll is not locked, I've locked the midfield and defender ones though.

Can you see the results?

Yes I can see the results.

I had a quick look and “liked” the post.  When I returned to the thread to complete the poll I was locked out - and my selections were going to be earth shattering 🤣

You sure you didn't vote?
You shouldn't be able to see the results until you do.
Title: Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 3 - 6x Starting forwards- CHOOSE 6!
Post by: kruddler on November 30, 2025, 09:49:03 am


Yes I can see the results.

I had a quick look and “liked” the post.  When I returned to the thread to complete the poll I was locked out - and my selections were going to be earth shattering 🤣

You sure you didn't vote?
You shouldn't be able to see the results until you do.

Bingo.
That's why i asked the question.
You can only see results after you have voted. Stops people being influenced by what comes before them.
Title: Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 3 - 6x Starting forwards- CHOOSE 6!
Post by: Lods on November 30, 2025, 09:59:25 am
Two places where we might have a bit of trouble in this exercise will be

1) Splitting the players who are tied for a line spot.
2) The bench is going to be all over the shop with any number of players getting a spot from different posters.

Probably the solution will be to give the final line spot to the player (who plays that position) and polls the best from the bench group.
Title: Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 3 - 6x Starting forwards- CHOOSE 6!
Post by: kruddler on November 30, 2025, 10:33:56 am
Two places where we might have a bit of trouble in this exercise will be

1) Splitting the players who are tied for a line spot.
2) The bench is going to be all over the shop with any number of players getting a spot from different posters.

Probably the solution will be to give the final line spot to the player (who plays that position) and polls the best from the bench group.

I've got some ideas on how we will flesh out remaining spots. ;) Watch this space.
I've also got some ideas on how best to work in with the bench, but that will always be open to personal preference and how you expect a side to play and what players enable that.
Simplistic example, 2 ruck vs 1 ruck. (Just on that, i've already stated on more than 1 occasion that all previous commentary on that is out the window since our lineup - and rules - have changed)

Title: Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 3 - 6x Starting forwards- CHOOSE 6!
Post by: DJC on November 30, 2025, 10:45:45 am


You sure you didn't vote?
You shouldn't be able to see the results until you do.

Bingo.
That's why i asked the question.
You can only see results after you have voted. Stops people being influenced by what comes before them.

Do the votes tally with the number of voters?

It’s entirely possible that I clicked on the wrong tab but I definitely didn’t vote.
Title: Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 3 - 6x Starting forwards- CHOOSE 6!
Post by: Lods on November 30, 2025, 10:56:29 am
7 people have voted 7 have voted for McKay
It's unlikely anyone would leave him out.
Title: Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 3 - 6x Starting forwards- CHOOSE 6!
Post by: kruddler on November 30, 2025, 01:13:51 pm


Bingo.
That's why i asked the question.
You can only see results after you have voted. Stops people being influenced by what comes before them.

Do the votes tally with the number of voters?

It’s entirely possible that I clicked on the wrong tab but I definitely didn’t vote.

Currently showing 8 people voted.
Currently showing 48 total votes - thats 6 each as required.

You get on the sauce and forget you voted??
Title: Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 3 - 6x Starting forwards- CHOOSE 6!
Post by: ElwoodBlues1 on November 30, 2025, 01:43:38 pm
HF Haywood McKay Ainsworth
F Moir Kemp Evans
My bench would include Okeefe and one of Motlop or Williams as rotations down forward.
Id reward Evans with a starting role after his good form late in last season.
Ainsworth wouldnt be fulltime either as I expect him to spend more time on the ball than he did at the Suns.
Title: Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 3 - 6x Starting forwards- CHOOSE 6!
Post by: madbluboy on November 30, 2025, 02:07:25 pm
I don't consider the starting players any different to the interchange. Kemp will be on my bench because he can play anywhere.
Title: Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 3 - 6x Starting forwards- CHOOSE 6!
Post by: DJC on November 30, 2025, 02:21:14 pm


Do the votes tally with the number of voters?

It’s entirely possible that I clicked on the wrong tab but I definitely didn’t vote.

Currently showing 8 people voted.
Currently showing 48 total votes - thats 6 each as required.

You get on the sauce and forget you voted??

That's certainly a possibility  :D  but I don't think so.

I definitely selected Motlop but was called away from the computer.  I'm pretty sure that I clicked the home button.

Anyway, I don't think it will make much difference to the outcome.
Title: Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 3 - 6x Starting forwards- CHOOSE 6!
Post by: kruddler on November 30, 2025, 03:36:29 pm
I don't consider the starting players any different to the interchange. Kemp will be on my bench because he can play anywhere.

The reason i'm doing it this way is
a) to work out where people believe players will start
b) to get a combined view on what our best team works out to be.

I had Kemp as a starter and will select HOK on the bench. You, it appears, have done it the opposite way. Either way, the end result will most likely be the same, both make the 23.

The bench will most likely capture some of those multipositional players that are yet to concrete a position in peoples minds.
eg Ollie Hollands. Half selected him for a wing. Half selected him for a HB role - he didn't get enough votes for either, but i suspect he will get picked on the bench as a result of the above.
Title: Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 3 - 6x Starting forwards- CHOOSE 6!
Post by: Lods on November 30, 2025, 06:05:46 pm
It's the bench that will get interesting because I don't think it will be that set.
I have Lewis Young in the back of my mind because he can play forward, back and ruck
But if O'Keefe misses out on a forward spot then he must come into the frame.

The same applies to Kemp.
It may work out fine, but it may also get a bit compacted at the tail end of the exercise.
Title: Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 3 - 6x Starting forwards- CHOOSE 6!
Post by: DJC on November 30, 2025, 06:46:34 pm
My approach is to pick 7 midfielders, 8 defenders, and 8 forwards, then choose the 6-6-6 from that lot.  The remainder start on the bench.  It helps if there are versatile players like O Hollands, Kemp, L Young and Florent who can fill a couple of roles, and forwards who can take a turn in the midfield.

I'm still struggling to fit several players in who I thought would be best 23  :-\
Title: Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 3 - 6x Starting forwards- CHOOSE 6!
Post by: kruddler on December 01, 2025, 05:57:21 pm
OK, we've got our 6, i'll lock the votes

Williams - McKay - Hayward
Ainsworth - Kemp - Moir
Title: Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 3 - 6x Starting forwards- CHOOSE 6!
Post by: shawny on December 01, 2025, 10:37:12 pm
OK, we've got our 6, i'll lock the votes

Williams - McKay - Hayward
Ainsworth - Kemp - Moir

when you look at that group of 6 players capable of kicking a winning score its hardly going to send shivers down the spines of the heavy weights is it.


one of the weaker forward lines in the comp sadly based on current levels. they may surprise sure but im talking about what those 6 have done in recent years is average at best.
Title: Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 3 - 6x Starting forwards- CHOOSE 6!
Post by: madbluboy on December 02, 2025, 06:48:16 am
It looks a lot stronger with our best contested marking forward in O'Keefe.
Title: Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 3 - 6x Starting forwards- CHOOSE 6!
Post by: Lods on December 02, 2025, 07:22:39 am
Yep
The actual side that takes the field will probably be a bit different to the one we pick now.
Title: Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 3 - 6x Starting forwards- CHOOSE 6!
Post by: madbluboy on December 02, 2025, 07:49:26 am
Williams McKay Evans
Hayward O'Keefe Ainsworth
Title: Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 3 - 6x Starting forwards- CHOOSE 6!
Post by: DJC on December 02, 2025, 09:47:43 am
Our seven forwards, and their 2025 average goals per game  when we beat St Kilda last season were:

Motlop (0.7)  Curnow (1.8 )  Durdin (0.9)
E Hollands (0.2)  McKay (1.8 )  White (0.7)
Binns (0.2)

That's a total of 6.3 goals per game.

Our forward line, by popular vote, and with Skull thrown in to make it seven forwards:

Williams (1.2)  McKay (1.8 )  Hayward (1.4)
Ainsworth (1)  Kemp (1.4)  Moir (1.1)
O'Keeffe (0.6)

That's 8.6 goals per game.

While that's a significant improvement, we still have to find at least another six goals per game.  That should come from our midfield, improved delivery and not relying on a key forward who was terribly out of form.
Title: Re: Pick our team in parts - Part 3 - 6x Starting forwards- CHOOSE 6!
Post by: kruddler on December 02, 2025, 05:09:35 pm
Our seven forwards, and their 2025 average goals per game  when we beat St Kilda last season were:

Motlop (0.7)  Curnow (1.8 )  Durdin (0.9)
E Hollands (0.2)  McKay (1.8 )  White (0.7)
Binns (0.2)

That's a total of 6.3 goals per game.

Our forward line, by popular vote, and with Skull thrown in to make it seven forwards:

Williams (1.2)  McKay (1.8 )  Hayward (1.4)
Ainsworth (1)  Kemp (1.4)  Moir (1.1)
O'Keeffe (0.6)

That's 8.6 goals per game.

While that's a significant improvement, we still have to find at least another six goals per game.  That should come from our midfield, improved delivery and not relying on a key forward who was terribly out of form.

Its an improvement in part because 2 of those players in the side now didn't have carlton players kicking to them. ;)

Watch those averages drop.  ::)

.....and Binns was never a forward.
In fact i'd suggest our forward line looked more like this....

Motlop (0.7) - McKay (1.8 ) - Williams (1.2)
Durdin (0.9) - Curnow (1.8 ) - Moir (1.1)
Evans (1.3)

Which is 8.8 goals a game, so we've gone backwards