I'll be at this one, so ...
We are Carlton.
We are Fuc#ed!
🤢🤮
What were the ruck frees for?
Crossing the line i think.
Put a toe on the line and its a free kick.
Seems fair and reasonable given how huge of an advantage that is. ::)
From what I could tell, twice they threw the ball up crooked, and then pinged Pitto for running across the line.
You know what hurts more than the loss, seeing SOS smile after The Aints win, he'd never crack a smile while watching his lad play for Carlton!
He was almost in tears in the interview after the game talking about our boys and being so down.
He still loves the club.
He spoke well.
TDK did too.
I suggest everyone booing them today watch the interviews with them and they might rethink booing them next time.
Our fans were booing the team and we deserved it
Serious? We owe them absolutely nothing -
Footy is emotional; if there was no emotion there would be no supporters. They both walked out on not only the club but the supporters. They dont ‘love’ the club. Please. They arent supporters. They’re professional sportsmen. They make $ from it. They dont know how ‘we’ feel. They are part of our problem!
Back to the game. Are we tanking? How do we allow another run of goals? It cant be coincidence
Clearly didn't hear the interview.
Jack said he knows exactly how we feel because he was on the other side of the fence (being a supporter) for 18 years before he got a crack. He has ridden all the ups and downs like we have.
Yes, he walked out.
He is human, he has a family that he needs to think about and getting potentially double the money to go.....i'd go too if i was him.
Spiritless.
I think the players are mentally broken, or well on the way. At least the senior blokes. They've made a number of attempts to get off the canvas over many years : this coach and that one, this rebuild and that list clean out, this game plan and then a new one etc. And despite all the things they've tried, all the levers they've tried to pull, still no lick of the ice cream. IMO, it's got nothing to do with softness or getting Steven May or anything like that. This is barking up the wrong tree IMO, and it's a problem that preceded Voss. The boys get physically run down because the mental side is worn down.
Yep i watched it. Yep he is now a paid sportsman. I feel no romanticism to him, i am 50, his father was my favourite player. That part of my lovely Carlton journey is now done and dusted. I cant stand this ‘he needs to look after his family’ bs, like as if he and his family were not very well
Looked after by carlton.
He is the opposition, so is TDK. We are an absolute rabble, an embarrassment, even having the ‘hotshot’ B Cook in to oversee everything and he appointed the hotshot Wright and we only have the best of the best 🙄 while im tearing my hair out watching the capitulation, our guys are cuddling TDK and having a good old laugh coz theyre all mates. It is actually gross and i dont see any bright side or positiveness… i just see a continuing worsening crapshow.
Fans walked out with 10 Mins to go. 50
Mins earlier we were 2 goals up.
Wtf is going on. Seriously? This is beyond ok.
I am trying to find positives and sure M Carroll continues, Cowan is great when he is great but went missing… walsh cripps cerra harry all garbage tonight. Got the typical good and bad from McG, Ollie tries his guts out all game as does Ainsworth, altho i feel sorry for Hayward having to come to us I am also over him disappearing… H is so ineffective at times and i think of the distant times when he was young when i and we kept getting assured ‘big young guys take time’…. And we are here and hes an old Big guy now and still has never won a game for us, and Weiters seems to have some attitude against others and sure he does his part but does he inspire and rally his guys? Newman seemed over it, Williams
Ok then missing, frankie getting smashed
But no frees. florent tries but not polished enough and - i just see no camaraderie when things start turning to crap. I hate Ross Lyon and hate that we had them and just relinquished it again so easily, again.
absolute rubbish.
So the loyal fans the oay there hard earned and turn up weekly to watch a fking crapshow shouldnt boo 2 players that jumped a sinking ship because they spoke well after they pumped us.
You like our coach may be able to remain emotionless watching that crap but hurting fans are allowed to boo all they like.
Fking hell how soft have we become.
Next week
Out: Entire AFL Team that played tonight(barring a couple)
In: VFL Side that played to today
Thank god the VFL guys are giving us something to be cheering on… i cant watch another senior game; totally seemed like they didnt bother after half time. If they wont bother, we wont bother to watch.
Played ok in the first half but never built a large enough lead and that's where we lost it. 18% forward efficiency, we just can't get any connection down forward, entries are poor and when we do find a target they can't kick straight anyway.
Terrible messy game to watch standard wise and the Saints were not much better than us with their skills.
Saad, Newman and Haynes age profile down back is not building for the future.
Weitering, Cripps and Harry are passengers, down in confidence and giving no leadership...
If I'm Cody Walker I'm considering my options...the pressure on that kid to be the savior is going to be extreme.
Play more kids is all we can do and hope to find some players, I'd be managing some senior players out of the team starting with Harry who should be playing VFL.
How Hewett can't get a game is unbelievable, I guess it's another Matt Kennedy situation ...
They were today.
Weitering continues to disappoint me with the way he expects teammates to man up so that he can zone off and provide little but defensive punches and/or intercept marks against lesser opponents.
His kicking skills are also less than what might be desired and are largely limited to ultra-safe kicks (backwards, sideways or very short) but rarely creative. Maybe its time he was given a run as a marking forward to see if he still has what it takes.
Out Dean (rested) Weitering McGovern Florent Cripps Hollands Pittonet Cerra Walsh Williams Evans McKay Haynes Reidy Hayward Cottrell (all omitted).
In L Young Wilson Derksen B Campo Acres Chesser Fogarty Moir Ison HOK Lord Hewett Byrne Duffy Young Charleson
F Young
HB Wilson Derksen Carroll
C B Campo Acres Chesser
HF Fogarty Moir Ison
FF Ainsworth Kemp Smith
Foll HOK Lord Hewett
Int Cowan Byrne Duffy Young Charleson
screw it, I'd do it, send a message.
The match committee seemed to make one decision that was out of left field and was moderately effective during the first half; i.e. Cowan running with W-Miller.
Conversely, they made a dumb decision by omitting Lewis Young (not a great player but usually serviceable) when the Aints had two ruckmen who were capable of playing effective roles as tall marking forwards without anybody tall enough to defend against high kicks to the forward line - except Weitering who prefers to play against lesser opponents these days.
I have rarely seen such heartless, soulless performances than what I saw tonight. After half time far too many players didn't give a yelp. Don't worry, there is plenty of blame to go around.
[1] Our coach is a dead man walking. He won't be there in 2027, the only question is will he see out the year? If this is what we're going to produce week in and week out, that's not going to happen.
We've changed most of the coaching staff, yet we're doing even worse.
I am sure our coaching panel next year will be significantly different again.
Our game style sucks: we run past for a handball and find there is nobody to kick it to. Our forwards don't move enough in the forward 50. We don't react well to changes in the game. There doesn't appear to be a plan B. We don't seem to set up like the better teams do.
[2] Our players are playing themselves out of a job.
You can blame the coach: he deserves his share of the blame, but it isn't just him. Our players need to take a good, hard look at themselves, as few of them are producing anything close to their best.
If we can recognize what they should be doing, then so should they. But, do we see any sign of it? We see our players getting frustrated, but we see little to rectify the reasons for that frustration. Harry Dean wasn't Robinson Crusoe with his frustration, but his response to it was stupid.
[3] Our recruiter certainly deserve their share of the blame. Rarely have I seen a list with so little athleticism. We didn't have anyone who could run with St. Kilda's better players. Whose fault is this? We lack pace all over the field. We have few players with real spring. Many of our better players are as slow as treacle!
[4] Our fitness people also need to admit that they've failed. There are reports that our guys have never been fitter. That doesn't stack up. Otherwise, we would be running guys down late in games. Otherwise, opposition players wouldn't break out tackles so easily. Our guys are weak, not just the youngsters, who have some excuse.
[5] The Umpires: a cannot miss giving them their place in our disaster. They way the rules were applied tonight was simply diabolical. The ruck frees ... I don't want to go there. But we take it, we don't complain. Our admin needs to get on the front foot and start calling this sh*t out! The way H, for example, gets held almost every time he goes for the ball. How our players get pushed out of contests and the umps just ignore it. I could go on.
That was probably the worst game I have seem from Weiters. He went in to the rooms in the 1st and sat on the bench. Not making excuses but he wasn't right after that, not sure if he got a knock to the ribs or what. In any case, he has shown the last several weeks that his form has been attrocious and he either is down on confidence or doesn't GAF.
Ditto Walsh, Cripps, Cerra, Hayward, H. Walsh and Cripps for example have shown that they can gather lots of stats but they dont impact games with what they do and they make too many errors (turn it over, get caught, miss easy shots etc). The costly errors from senior players is getting worse with every week.
Agree dropping Young was a mistake, he has been FAR from our worst every week, they wont drop the captain and v.captain though can they?
All AFL is currently like this, it's unwatchable chaos. n the past I would. watch multiple games in a weekend, this season it is lucky if I watch four full quarters in total.
This nonsense has to stop.
It defies belief that a side can control a game for large portions and then in a matter of minutes see any lead disappear and the game gone. You could accept it if it happened once or twice, but every ‘frigging’ single game. It’s now common knowledge that the opposition go into the rooms at half-time and the talk is about how Carlton will probably fade. In post-match interviews the opposition players will pass it off as “yeah, it was mentioned”.
Supporters will have their own opinion as to who or what is to blame but it’s a collective responsibility and no-one should be able to sit back and say if only we had ‘this or that.’ You make do with what you have.
The fact that we can control games for long periods shows the side isn’t completely devoid of talent, but the decline in performance and the fade out half way through a game of some players is staggering, especially amongst our senior players, some of whom are starting to play a very “individual” style of football.
At the moment fans are walking out a three -quarter time, soon they won’t come at all. Members, and maybe even some sponsors, will have second thoughts about their commitment. That can’t be ignored.
It’s probably reached the point where it requires a significant action to reset, a ‘nuclear’ option, and sometimes in that moment good people may need to make way.
We can’t produce another 15 weeks or so of these dominate/capitulate results. Players and coaches all speak of things like ownership and it “being on them” but talk means nothing if you don’t, or can’t, back it up with a response.
One of the problems of a ‘culture of losing and discontent’ is that even with a big cleanout there are often elements that aren’t erased but just remain dormant until they surface again. Players must be getting frustrated and with that frustration comes further division and discontent. Watching Cripps and Weitering leave the field last night and they were deep in a serious conversation…you wonder what their thoughts were in the immediate aftermath. They look across at former team-mates celebrating and enjoying their football and they’re heading to the rooms knowing that all they have to look forward to is another week of criticism and scrutiny.
LOL, I watch nearly every game and enjoy most of them except ours.
I am not gonna lie, I was watching the Coll Haw game the other night and for the first time EVER, my mind was wondering and I found myself thinking about who I'd convert to if I was to ditch Carlton. The answer was I would barrack for the arch enemy Coll. Yep, big Melb club, tick. The players give there all 99% of the time, they never give up, yes they are well coached but they execute the basics more than well and do the extraordinary often. They have the right mix of rat bags (extroverts) and choir boys (a bit introverted). The group never give up and they are always in game. As an organisation they are stable and well run, have been for a very long time. That stability filters down to the playing group.
Our club is 180 degrees opposite to the above and the results show.
Our problems start and finish in the centre squar;, our set up is abominable and stale.
Our rucks try hard but they are useless under the new rules. Why didn't the club work to get ahead of this?
Our mids are totally unsuited to the modern game. They provide no leadership, no dynamic ball movement and no defensive cover. They are slow as get out, and don't kick goals. And now the one wood - contested footy - is gone. So they are passengers and a liability.
George and Lord must play going forwards.
Cerra was a mistake and needs to learn how to become relevant in the seconds.
Cripps should join him but his future looks to be up forward or traded out.
We need to try something else and look for something more dynamic within the centre square - Williams ? (another over rated player), Ainsworth ? The Campos? Anybody.
And gees,didn't the genius MC make another set of stunningly effective decisions again. If we aren't tanking I've never seen it.
Recruiting HAS been horrendous. Where are our ‘buzzy’-type players that hit the ball at speed and create chaos? Think Watson at Hawthorn.
I heard the commentator from yesterday’s Brisbane match say they’re the best because they play consistently with precision AND speed - basically the opposite of us.
As if highlighting BOTH of you points above - why is Jagga Smith still so skinny? How come no-one mentored him at the gym during his time out and put some muscle on him? A good weights regime and decent protein laden diet should see any 20 year old bulk up considerably. Instead we’ve got yet another accumulator who doesn’t impact or influence effectively.
So many dropped balls on and off the field.
All great points. I suspect though with Jagga the sole focus would have been getting the knee rehabbed 110%, they may have resulted in compromising size and strength increase. Just guessing, he has time on this side to get bigger and stronger. My view is our kids are the least of our problems.
SOS smiling, Fake pity from TDK and Jack after the game about how bad we are and how they feel our pain??
The club should be embarrassed and as I said prior game win, lose or draw I'm not talking about the coaches future based on this game. This loss is all on the players and the leaders and makes me think we might have to import some leadership from another club because there are hardly any options..
I was going to ask for two first rounders for Harry in a trade to Tassie , might have to rethink that and beg for two second rounders. He needs a spell away from the game and Brisbane can probably just rub Bens name off the whiteboard and replace it with Harry, no need to change the low confidence.
The media should have a field day with the players his week and rightly so, surely the club have to try more youth now and look to the future..
I told you we wouldnt respond. This group doesnt know how to when challenged.
EB I would drop a dozen with ease from last's s-show.
5 minutes into the 3rd up by 3 goals, an angry Jack stood up to Cripps grabbed his guernsey gave him a mouthful, team mate helps Jack gives Cripps a shove. Harry just stands there like a stuffed dummy.
All downhill from there.
Yep. That was just about as low as we have been. No sign of the sunrise or a single green shoot. Whatever it may be something major has just got to give. We look devoid of passion, devoid of skills and devoid of leadership. It will be a looong road back even when we manage to find where that road starts.
Harry is the biggest pussycat in footy. He scares no one.
Seems worse after losing his mate Charlie, I think both McKays have to think about their future. They remind me a bit of Tom Boyd from the Bulldogs and that the demands of the game mentally are proving too much for them.
Yes I think you’re right.
His continued failure to impose himself i.e. hammer defenders coming back into him shows he's a nice bloke and unsuited to what is essentially a gladiatorial sport....nice guys finish last - exactly where we are at this point in time.
And no more leave passes for Hayward....F.Yoing or Ison.
If you don't want to be here, F off
I would too but sending too many kids into battle usually doesn't end well but we probably can't do any worse.
We lost the game in about 15 mins.
So im not sure what occurs during these times. Are our opponents lifting do we just go into our shells? Are we just executing badly for a little while?
Jordan Russell used to play like this. 10 to 15 minutes of diabolical football where he couldnt put a foot right.
So cowan I think went off injured and couldnt look after w.millera and that was probably the catalyst in the momentum shift.
We had a few moments we would want back.
The club knew the new rules were coming. We knew that we were losing Tom de Koning, the only player who could benefit from them. So, do we address the issues? No.
I know there are those here who have downplayed the importance of rucks, but this year has shown just how vital they are to modern football. We don't have what is required and when our rucks get beaten, the other team piles on the scores and we are powerless to stop them.
Again, it doesn't take a genius to how how midfields have been evolving in the last few years, nor is it unclear as to what sort of players have become important. Yet, to we address the issue? Do we prepare our players for what they need to do?
It was sad watching Cripps yesterday. He so badly wanted to impact the game, but he couldn't catch his opponents and the ball didn't get near him.
And did we have anyone with pace to play on St. Kilda's speedy players? We tried Cowan, who tried hard but couldn't keep up. The others we just let run around. It was terrible!
I'm not sure that Hewett is an answer to our problems, but he is certainly in better form that Cerra is. Lord needs to be in, but he doesn't help us go faster either.
Cody Walker will improve our midfield, because he isn't slow, but that's just one kid.
We don't seem to think about our matchups. Structurally, we've been deficient all year, and it really stood out yesterday. Where were our close-checking defenders? There weren't any. St. Kilda's mid sized forwards took mark after mark because there was nobody with the skills to beat them at it. Our key defenders were little better, although Weitering and Dean had their moments.
Haynes gets into a scuffle on the fence with I cant recall who, Weiters drags Hayne's jumper to pull him away! You serious mate? You want to go in a fly the flag, rip the other guys jumper off not your blokes.
Surely Byrne being a country lad has a paddock and dam we can borrow for a few days for some camp fire soul searching.
We're either tanking or just completely sh1thouse...
Could be both.
Almost went last night but a family function went a little longer than I expected, thank God.
As Mark McClure said "good teams train, poor teams meet"...
I think its been the players who have decided when the coach is finished as with Teague and Bolts, last night the same thing happened.
As much as there was a sub plot of ex Carlton players vs Carlton they actually weren't that good.
Stocker was rubbish.
Jack is the same player he was with us. A few good moments not much else.
Marshall was the best ruckman on the ground kicking 3 and id question the pay packet if I were him. Is tdk as effective without him? Kicked 2, was dominant in hit outs but benefited from some dodgy frees.
Ironically jack carroll played a very handy game. Probably his best ive seen at afl level. Hes still noting flashy, and therein shows why we are where we are. Our ex players are hardly setting the world on fire even if corey durdin has kicked 2 goals a game since he left.
Jack martin is probably performing the best but look where hes at and hes really not playing superior footy to what we have seen before hes just another contributor in a good outfit.
Matt Kennedy. Solid but unspectacular. Not a needle mover and a liability with the pace of today's game.
Srepping over the line. Yep
Apparently you cannot cross the line until the ball is touch. The StKilda ruckmen would not contest and our ruckmen would step ovet the the line. Like you said big advantage.
Whatever Vossy is selling, the players aren't really buying it. His coaching record at the CFC is looking suspiciously like his tenure up north. Being out coached by Ross didn't help - Tore us open after half time with a change of tac, especially in the midfield.
Poor on-field leadership - conditional and fragile. Weiters looks bored, H is a shell of his former self (a year or more ago), Crippa & Walshy try to do hero stuff when the heat is on and stuff up - saps confidence... the antithesis of leadership. Cerra? Pfft. Saad? Why was he there? Why was an underdone Cotters persisted with? Positives: Cowan trying his guts out (handed a poisoned chalice), ZW never stopped working hard, Kemp - gave his all, Newman - a real leader, Carroll, Dean - yep, he got frustrated but at least he plays like he gives sh*t.
Our turnover game, especially under heat, is appalling (worst in the AFL) and that's coaching.
Images of Crippa on the bench later in the game laughing, galls me.
Soulless and spiritless when heat and/or change happens in game.
Our identity and brand is at its lowest in our once proud history.
Spot on. The jig is up with this team/coach combination.
Are we really that bad??
We lost a game to an ordinary team in St-Kilda and we have Brisbane next week. Not looking forward to this game but will watch.
Like some comments, has the club decided to put the cue in the rack so we are not paying up for Cody Walker?
Was watching the game with a Footscray support and when the game was over he turned to me and said smuggle, well that was a waste of his time.
That sums up our club.
I know Cripps is getting some heat but maybe removing Kennedy Hewitt and Lord impacts him both physically and mentally. No one else big and strong enough to bust things open.
We all complain why is it left to him to do it all; and when he cant we complain about him. Of ALL our guys he is the one that has always given 100% every single game.
I saw a short replay of wins v Freo over the years last week and one game stood out - when Murph kicked the banana to win it and the players all piled on, Cripps picked Fish up and the happiness on his face was unreal - we have totally broken this guy and theres just not much more he can do. He needs support around him! He looked so frustrated with that jsos encounter, recall seeing Judd like that at times.
Will Dean get rubbed out for that push? Hes young he should t have done it, but gee he plays with some vigour 💪🏼
I'd say he will do time. Vossy talked him up in the press conference. Not that incident specifically, but the way Dean goes about it.
I'm not sure if it was from that effort, but he did injure himself.
He might say it was a reaction to him injuring himself at the same exact moment and not an intentional act.
Either way, he isn't playing next week.
Voss and our leaders don't look like they are gelling together. Another reason to change things. A change will likely change attitude. As we know, attitude is everything. Happened before.
8 games, 8 times beaten in regards to pressure rating. Was about 140 during the 2nd half. Says something about attitude. Every week the first half shows we can acrually play, 2nd half shows we couldn't care less. Poor attitude.
He should not be playing a contact sport - the bloke is absolutely weak as p1ss.
Mentally weak physically has nothing to give.
May struggle to get more then an early second rounder for him.
And Cripps is done - only good for tv commercials. Frustrated slow no leadership and poor kicking skills. He just cant impact.
And again no significant moves made when the game was changing - nothing. we have lost 6 out of 7 games the same way yet still nothing from the coaches bocx to even attempt to halt it. every other team has a coaching box that makes moves when the game is getting away not out man he stares at the lap top with and expressionless look on his face.
The list has holes but is given zero from outside the boundary line. They have turned an average list into one that will be 1-11 by round 12.
Playing our best player from last year in the 2nds while we sit in 16th all while frauds like Cerra get game after game is more evidence its not just the list that need massive change.
I think that Dean will be out next week either through injury and/or suspension (who didn't see that coming) and I would definitely play Harry at CHB.
1. It's a lot easier being a key back than a key forward.
2. He can't kick a goal to save himself.
3. He SHOULD get some confidence.
No point bringing kids in this week so their first taste can be a flogging at the hands of Brisbane.
There's probably about half-a-dozen on the playing list they could buy a one-way plane ticket for.
I didn't watch any of the game as I had to hand out the trophies at my cricket club's presentation night.
However, I have read a fair bit online about the match and it appears there were no trophies to be handed out there.
I can only summise that we are genuinely tanking and my reasoning is as folows.
If we can finish last, we can bid on the Port Adelaide kid, get matched by the Power and get that extra bonus pick at the end of the first round. Then we can take the best key position player with our next attempt. After that, if anyone bids on Walker, we can use the bonus pick as part of the collateral to match the bid.
In other words, we are going to try and get two young guys instead of one.
Furthermore, why has Hewett been dropped to the seconds and not recalled ??
Because he is providing genuine leadership to the young guys down there and they will not be promoted to the seniors as the selectors want to keep the next batch of youngster away from the toxicity the senior players.
Yes, it's quite a fanciful theory but its the only way I can understand the utterly woeful onfield efforts we are seeing right now.
Nope, nothing could be a lot worse than last night. Send them in with no expectation but being clear about giving them a taste of AFL football. Hungry dogs hunt best, I stand by that saying, our senior blokes aren't hungry.
Don't often say this of you, but I like your theorizing there LL. Although I have my doubts that our club could be that devious.
Dark Lord , Your theory is too complicated and practical for any of the masterminds at the Carlton Football club to have planned, Im just putting it down to a poor list and woeful off field setup from the President all the way down the line. Even the club Doctor appears like he cant it right and is under the pump. I can see why Brian Cook jumped ship and feigned retirement, he must have seen the Iceberg on the horizon long before anyone else and headed for the lifeboats straight away.
Their is no quick fix or messiah on or off the field and the club need an intervention from an Independent Management Group to over see a rebuild on and off the field imho. The Board need to take control and throw the doors open for a full review and be prepared to make changes and have every position scrutinized even their own or we are just going to go around in circles sticking bandaids on everything and having hope as our only strategy.
The theory is born of arrogance.
Arrogance that we arent actually that bad, we are just hamstringing ourselves.
Guess what kids, we are that bad. We have been for the better part of the modern era except when some brilliant individuals paper over the cracks. The second they cant do that anymore the cracks open up again.
Coach made no moves. Yes he did, McGovern back, crips forward, cowan going off forced us to change up sone stuff with florent, hollands and zach williams.
Don't confuse not making a change with not making an effective change. We tried our best, its just not good enough. We kick those set shots from kemp, williams and McKay and the game changes.
If we're tanking to try and secure Cody and whoever else, then Wright ain't worth s h i t. Unless folks think the last decade has been one long tank. I doubt we are going down that path. .
We are not good enough to tank
Would not surprise me one bit. In trying to solve one perceived problem the AFL has created another with the compo picks for bids that fail. They are inviting "shiftiness" which is akin to cheating, if you cant beat em, join em I say.
In the third qtr, 6 players laid 1 tackle each. 17 players didnt lay a tackle. EOS.
Begs the question... Why?
Voss told them not to tackle.
Jack Reiwoldt scathing of Harry and also suggesting Cody Walker will be considering Richmond and planting a seed of doubt by talking about it on Fox.
I just read that.
Too bad there is no scope for him to change his mind now.
The time to make that call was last year. It was made. The end.
Tigers are free to bid on him, and they should IMO, but if we want him, we get him.
You would think a paid commentator would know the draft rules.
Not exactly.
I have very little faith in most of the media. Examples like this are all too common.
But hey, it gets a headline. Gets half the people jumping at shadows.
Gives his own team a pump up in the process.
The quality of all things AFL seem to be slipping.
Which commentators are the modern day equivalent of Bruce and Dennis?
All these 'special comments' people nowadays are leaning more on the 'special' side of the spectrum.
No need for facts.
No need for logic.
Couldn't Cody change his mind still?
Nope.
All clubs and players need to nominate (i think its) 12 months in advance.
There was an article specifically about Walker when he made the call saying the decision needed to be made by [this date] and tigers were left disappointed that they lost the right to him.
There is talk he can retract father/son/ NGA nomination up until draft nominations close so he would enter the draft as a free player with no ties to either Carlton or Richmond ..is that true?
Crippa has been cited… might not be a bad time for the skipper to have a breather.
Eta just a $1500 fine
The bigger question is, if it was the case he wished to withdraw his nomination would be....
why?
What would he have seen that caused him to change his mind.
(I'll just add that he seemed pretty happy and comfortable in the VFL yesterday.)
If he did wish to go though the draft it could turn out not too bad for us.
We're committed to him and as it turns out we will pay a high price.
He's an exceptional talent.
But were he to change his mind we'd have a pretty fair draft hand.
I posted yesterday we should do whatever it takes to get him, but I'm not sure I'd feel the same if he was a reluctant starter.
Hewett in for Cripps at the moment is probably a fair swap...and make Hewett captain for the day. :D
We get a lot of players getting concussed, high contact etc yet nobody ever seems to get cited ...?
I believe he can accept an early guilty plea and pay a 1k fine.
If you haven't read this article it's a good read.
The ABC boys often offer something different to 95% of the AFL media and that's some actual analysis
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-04-02/explaining-carlton-infamous-second-half-fade-outs/106525364
I am not one to blame the Coach, however the MC has to take some responsibility for a side that has no problem developing and executing a game plan that puts them in a position to win the game.
The same group of players with the same ability can't execute in the 2nd half. Fitness? Taxing game style may all play a part, but the coaching team has to be right up there.
There's clearly a S and C issue that has largely escaped criticism.
Nice shakin, albeit a month too late.
I'm buoyed by some of the analysis coming out. Anyone who looks deeper than the win/loss record seems to be coming to the same conclusion, thats its not voss who is to blame.
Interesting to highlight that the new ball movement is the responsibility of Fraser (not voss) and that the reason its failing is player based.
We all know we love a contest.
We all know we are big and slow.
We all know we cant kick.
I find it somewhat ironic that our gameplan is very much in the same mould as Malthouse who was 'over the hill and outdated'. Yet its still works today.
That is, get the ball forward. Create the contest and back yourself in to win the contest. Defend in forward half as much as possible.
We just need fitter and/or more disciplined players to execute it. Having fitter and faster players helps the plan and obviously turning it over less and kicking more accurately will help any plan.
In the meantime, we just gotta find 23 blokes who are team oriented and disciplined enough to not ruin it for the rest of them.
It highlights why an out of sorts elijah can cause havoc for the whole team too.
Jack Riewoldt is a clown. If he'd been at the VFL game and seen what Cody did, he wouldn't have bothered saying something that moronic. After all, why should he go to Richmond, who can't keep their kids from being injured! And there is no certainty that they will develop into the team they want.
Yea mean Jack the squealer? The bloke who spent half of every game appealing to umpires and normally getting rewarded for it?
I sat near the bench and I think it was late in the second quarter acripps came off completely gassed, sat down for about 2 seconds got back up and went straight back on the ground.
1. He was exhausted
2. It was a waste of an interchange.
11 wins from 40. Win/losses are everything for established sides like us
Game these days is more run and transition. Hence we are getting so many scores over 100. We go nowhere near 100. We still base our game on contested, crash and bash. We fatigue and sides run over us. As EB says, we play a neanderthal game plan while others have moved on. Once sides start running over us we often give up. Now, if we had a coach who could coach the modern game we might not be 11 wins from 40, and 1-7 this year. Win/losses are everything. We played finals 31 games ago. Must've done a good job getting there with no talent....lol. we sat 2nd 8 weeks before that with no talent. That was one of those 29 losses in the 40. But to the spinners that's ok though. Brisbane away, should be 11 wins from 41.
Nice try at spin though
Because someone just mentioned the reason earlier in this thread......... the players don't want the coach there......
I bought this up in a post about a year ago, and so far this year it just reinforces what I said then - there is a definite disconnect between MV and the playing group. Also, I don't know if the entire playing group are connected too, that may be a separate issue. We have some talent in the developing list, we've seen them competitive almost weekly, but they too easily become dispirited, disinterested and destabilised. They are not playing for this coach, it's pretty obvious. MV should not take all the blame, there seems to be things going on behind the scenes we don't know about - is my guess. The silence from GW and CFC is deafening - MV will fall first, rightly or wrongly - I'm certain they are working on this currently and will move when the time is right - if there is such a thing.... IF some senior players are rocking the boat, then GW hopefully sorts that out also...
CHANGE is needed.
I thought Jack's comments on H were valid.
I laughed when he suggested the Tiggers should have another crack at Cody. None of his co-commentators took the bait... we all saw it for what it was... mischievous, and... silly. But, hey, if the shoe was on the other foot, we'd give it a try as well! Nice try, Jack, you little scallywag, you ;)
What! That's the ticket, guilt-trip the kid. Nice work.
What I saw was Elijah's situation galvanize the playing group and club (as it should) into universal and overwhelming care, love and support. A positive net effect for all concerned.
It seems to me they're being asked to play a style of game that they are not capable of sustaining.
And when it goes bad, there is no alternative.
That must be terribly frustrating for the playing group.
Do you try to fit the group into the plan, or do you fit the plan to the group?
This is all well and good but what doesn't gell with me is this. Both when Voss started and last off season (when the new assistant coaches were appointed), the coaches and playing group sat down together and devised a way they wanted to play. ie the way the players wanted to play. They came up with the game plan or style based on that feedback and player buy in. Now all of a sudden, the players cant do it, its unsustainable, they dont get along with the coach, WTF is going on here? Either Voss is a complete BS artist (re his comments about sitting down with the players) or the tail is wagging the dog when it gets too hard...again.
I'm no dill, its a win loss business and Carlton will do Carlton things and the coach always gets it in the neck so given where we are at, a change will be made. But there are underlying problems that need addressing once and for all which if they arent, we will have having these same threads and discussions in 1,2,3 years time. Nothing surer.
When he reads this ill apologise to him, until then I'm standing by it.
1 man down in a team defense will bring the while thing down. It cant happen.
Whether its a legitimate reason, elijah, or whether it's someone who simply CBF, the result is the same.
Seen that happen 100 times before and no free kick or fuss made over it.
Nah that was a dog act.
It wasn't impressive, it was an act of frustration, and it will be interesting to see how it is received.
The inconsistency in outcomes from the match Review means it is difficult to see how they will jump. After all, Ben Camporeale got a season ending ban for pushing a guy last year, but when he is on the receiving end, the result was nothing. Granted, he wasn't as badly hurt, but the two incidents were very similar.
There certainly seems to be a component where the outcome is taken into account, even though that's not supposed to be the case. Considering that the St. Kilda guy suffered nothing, that could be a good sign.
But, as I said, the outcome often has little to do with what actually happens. Some of the outcomes appear ludicrous, given the criteria.
I don't think Dean will be playing next week anyway: he appears to have a groin problem.
I'd say promote him to captain, he's one of just a handful in this spineless team who show any fight or mongrel...
And our idiot recruiting manger just continually brings in these same soft, nice guy types year after year. Haynes, Florent, Haywood etc etc... We have a team full of Mr. nice guys who would rather shake hands and hug with mates in the opposition than show a bit of fight and spirit. MV has tried his heart out for 5 years, but unfortunately you can't expect corgis to win races against greyhounds.. Time to move on - watch this space
I wouldnt say Haynes, Florent and Hayward are in the "nice" category. Do they show controlled aggression enough? Probably not but they have it in them. Ditto Ainsworth.
I've never been specially convinced by this argument. Cripps, McKay and others on our list are as tough/mongrel now as they were when we were doing well late 23 and early 24. In fact if you compare McKay's statistical output to someone like Tom Lynch, who, at least reputationally, is a "nasty" type, their output is very similar, and McKay is a little ahead. Whether you believe that these tough guy acts inspire / lift team mates etc is IMO a separate question. Fight and spirit has little to do push and shove.
One aspect that never gets mentioned in such discussions is plain old retribution. If one of our blokes lays a bone crunching tackle on one of the opposition star players, and puts them out of action, who's to say the opposition can't do the same ?
Our players are undoubtedly struggling at the moment, but that has little to with not being more like Harry Dean IMO.
Of course it doesn't, and physically and mentally not every player is going to be like that... I was trying in a round about way to say we need more in the team to show that kind of passion and pride in playing for the CFC jumper - which seems to be lacking with some of the more senior players, at least for a full four quarters......... and when that happens it becomes a team pandemic unfortunately; as we see on a weekly basis. Don't worry, Dean will have the Carlton Way hammered into him in the next few months..
Haynes and Ainsworth definitely have it, Hayward seems to complain a lot at the Umpires.
We do not shepherd for each other, we are playing very individual. The times Walsh and Cripps get caught, give it off ffs!
We have players who wont straightline the ball and pull out of marking contests, then we had the five players on the last line of defense who stood and watched while TDK took a mark and none of them contested, they didnt have a man they were just lounging around waiting for the other bloke to contest. Weitering should have been directing traffic as the senior defender but he doesnt care anymore and couldnt be bothered much like when he fumbled at half back but couldnt be bothered chasing back towards goal. Harry Dean would have learnt SFA watching his senior mates perform, we have 13 players with over 100 games and around 4 with over 200 games but you wouldnt know it watching after half time as they looked like directionless farm animals waiting for a Kelpie to herd them...
To give but one example : pushing a guy into the fence, then apologizing, then as result giving away a free kick from the goal square, so effectively two goals within seconds to the opposition - this is your idea of showing "passion and pride in playing for the CFC jumper'?
To say nothing of the fact that he is likely to be rubbed out for a time.
Dean - $1,500 fine...
Whilst I have no issue with a little good fortune from time to time, I think Dean is lucky.
1. I'm pretty sure he got a fine
2. I'm referring to his fire and passion in general, not that particular incident. He's a young kid still learning the ropes, his passion is a great attribute imo, but his senior teammates will soon show him the error of his ways.
He is young and was probably incredibly frustrated being put under immense pressure again - IIRC that was the 5th incoming goal in a 5 minute period.
Not good enough by our snr players and our coach and coaching staff - not even close!
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/carlton-blues/afl-news-2026-brutal-trade-calls-carlton-must-explore-according-to-david-king-including-jacob-weitering-harry-mckay-and-patrick-cripps/news-story/71eabe60daaa4066dffc4f46d837622d
Interesting summary, and i agree with most of the points he raises...
But many here probably won't,, all the deniers here who think we're travelling ok and just need some minor tweaks and give MV another 3-4 years...
Faull smacks Weeters in his busted ribs off the ball....gets a lousy week and people want to give Dean six?
Nobody think we're traveling okay, but some of us can see the building blocks and good things that are in place, without the standard supporter call to nuke the joint every four years.
And getting rid of what little leadership we have is a terrible idea. If we do that, we can enjoy the Richmond 2026 brand for the next few years.
If he'd done an ACL would you still be as condemning?
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/aflw-stars-brother-concussed-after-being-tackled-into-grate/video/9c12e4a4741d536b0c22cbad32627768
A player has a right to not expect contact over the goal line.
King puts the blame on the players, leaders specifically, but says the coach has to go.
Why?
As far as ditching our leaders.....Harry McKay....he is no leader. He might say the right things off the ground, but on it, he is the opposite of a leader. He is someone that drains energy from the team, not gives it. I'd be moving him on and cashing in whatever we can get before he loses all value.
Cripps, whether we trade him this year, or he retires in 2-3 years, what do we lose in the meantime? Not much.
Trade him while we can.
Weitering....i'd keep. Its too hard to find key backs and we have an AA one. I'm not buying the criticism of him. One week it is that he doesn't man up one on one. Another week its because he gets dragged away following an opponent and not doing what he does best - zone. He can't do both at the same time.
We have a decent couple young defenders that can really benefit by having him around in Dean and HOF.
Keep.
The other 2 can go and we'd barely notice.
Yep. Don't change Deano, just temper any frustration a whisker.
Liked that Vossy praised Deano's attitude. Bet Vossy would have liked for a few more of his chargers to demonstrate the endeavour that Deano does. Imagine if H had the same kind of hunger for the contest! Also Cerra! There are others who could learn from Deano. He made a silly mistake... he'll learn from that. Other than that, don't change a damn thing about your attitude, Deano. You're a bloody ripper.
He (King) has articulated why in other commentaries.
I like King but about this time 2 years ago he said the Lions needed to sack Fagan and get a real coach like Chris Scott.
With Cripps Weitering and McKay, I would be sitting them down at the end of the year and see where they think they are at. If they are happy to be part of a rebuild at Carlton knowing full well they wont be playing in a premiership (or even finals) anytime soon, then great. If however they want out, then like with Charlie we should facilitate trades for them.
As for their leadership, we can only judge from an outsider looking in as we dont know what they are like "close up" and "within the four walls". From that outsiders perspective:
- Harry offers zero and shouldn't be anywhere near the official leadership group. Nor can he be relied on to provide onfield leadership in the way he plays.
- Weitering appears to offer marginally more that Harry, his body language and demeanour this year in particular has been alarming (to me at least). He could form part of the leadership group but VC or Captain, no way.
- Cripps. We all know he tries his absolute heart out and leads the best way he can. However he seems broken and defeated and maybe removing the captaincy from him will lighten the burden for him and freshen him up to go about and do what he does best, win the footy inside. The question is, will he see this as a slap in the face or will he embrace it?
Again, the above is my uneducated opinion based on what it looks like to me. The only ones who know best are their team mates and coaches.
You’re on the right track mate, at least IMHO.
Id be trading Cripps and Harry plus thinking about Weitering if he cant adjust his attitude.....
Cripps has carried the team but like Judd cracked under the pressure, no more naming the best player as Captain as the club tends to break them eventually. Harry is mentally too fragile like his brother and is probably an episode(mental health or concussion) from giving it away imho. No shame in that as the game isnt for everyone and you need to look after your health and future but unfortunately as a struggling lower club we cant afford to wait or carry players that are not contributing for those reasons.
When we are a rabble mid way through next year, scoring 10 goals a game, complaining we cant win the ball at the coalface, and our mids cant give us first use, and we are conceding goals a plenty because dean is tpp short or o Farrell too injured to get a game, and we register 2 wins for the season, then what?
Face it, we are about to lose a stack of players who are in our best most weeks and have been since 2023 and the youngsters arent stepping up. Scorching the earth is going to see us embraced mediocrity.
Theyre talking about an indigenous player on the list. Whats a bet the salary cap will get an allowance too. Throw the kitchen sink salary wise at nasiah, because I bet you this will bite us hard.